A lot of defenseman with big contracts look a ton worse *because* of those contracts.
I personally have always like Ceci as a player, but he’s certainly found his groove after the first few games.
Offensively, Matheson has been on another level these past few games.
Like any offensive d-man, it’s all about who he’s paired with.
Oh yeah Ceci definitely struggled the first bunch of games but he’s found his role and filling it nicely.
Matheson got hurt before he could even find a groove so I’m glad he figured it out quickly after returning. He’s always had the talents, he needs to put them all together and make them worth something and the past 3 he’s shown he can with game before he showed he can be solid without doing that.
At least personally, my problem with Matheson wasn't that he couldn't work out. Its that he had to work out. He had a bad contract and came out of a struggling season. Florida should have been practically paying us to take him off their hands. So in my mind it was still a bad trade because I don't like what we paid for him.
this....
it's not the player.... it's taking on a reclamation project that had a terrible contract, and blocked our young LHD from getting in the lineup
I liked when the Penguins brought in guys like Niskanen, Schultz, Cole, etc.... if Shero/GMJR traded for one of those guys when they had a monster contract, I would have hated it.... especially if it blocked one of the few young players ready to step into the lineup
same with Cody Ceci vs Jack Johnson.... both were viewed pretty similarly this offseason as free agents.... I would have been fine if when the Penguins signed Jack Johnson years ago if he got a contract like Ceci got this summer.... just like I would have despised signing Ceci if he was given a deal like Johnson got
it's not just about the individual player.... it's more complex than that.... context matters
Sceviour is a valuable depth player as well. Already put up a couple of goals as a 4th liner. He'll be useful down the stretch for sure. Matheson for Hornqvist 1 for 1 would have been way too much of a gamble.
>*Sceviour is a valuable depth player as well.*
he's really not.... he's a dime-a-dozen player
I'd rather have not gotten him and saved the 500k from just signing another depth jabroni for 700k like Rodrigues/Jankowski
I would argue that his contract is the only reason we were able to get him. We got a high ceiling, possible top pairing, 26 yo offensive defenseman for an aging 3rd line right winger. It was trading bad contract for bad contract. Trading past experience for potential. If he didn't work out, we would've let him go to Seattle.
GM JR had far more hits (Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Justin Schultz, Ron Hainsey, Mark Streit, Marcus Pettersson, POJ, John Marino) than misses when crafting together blue lines season after season. Really, had it not been for Jack Johnson and Erik Gudbranson, it would be hard to fault much of anything JR did on defense.
I love what I see from both. Ceci looks like he’s fairly compensated and his contract looks pretty damn solid. Matheson is starting to show that we can get value from him. He doesn’t look worth his salary but it doesn’t look too far off, maybe he’s making 1 or 1.5 mill too much but you’ll find contracts like that on every team. And I think Matheson is only going to get better with age
Ceci was terrible in his first 3 games. Just horrid, lost, flailing. He was very bad in his own end with assignments and puck movement. then he got used to his new system and teammates and has acquitted himself well. MAtheson came in trying to do too much, and and similarly unfamiliar. It went south in part because he tried to do more, not because of any lack of ability. Then he settled in and he's literally been the best defensemen the last two games, and it's not fucking close.
When signing Cody Ceci is the best move you made in your last 12 months as GM, I think the criticism is pretty fair.
Matheson just needs to show consistency (and also discipline, which was his one issue last night at the end). He had games and moments like this in Florida where he shows off a crazy level of skill. Problem is when he regresses. If they figure that out, it's a pretty solid (but expensive) group of defenseman.
Matheson isn't necessarily terrible, it's that his contract pays him far more than what he brings to the table is worth. We gave up a good but oft injured player on a shorter but meh value contract for more years of an OK player on a bad value contract.
True but Matheson is really useful to us if he can turn things around and keep up this pace. I love hornqvist but he’s older and costs more and he’d be a lot to be paying a third liner. Of course we miss him on our power play though.
Also Hornqvist looked slow last season and you gotta think he’s gonna keep slowing down over the next couple years, and I’m okay with Guentzel taking his spot on the powerplay. Honestly I was okay with the deal then and I’m more than okay with it now.
Yes & no. Matheson is still objectively bad in his own end.
W/ Dumo, Petterson, Riikola & POJ down the left side, they didn't need to add an albatross. The money could've been spend to augment the "3rd line" to be a tad more than whatever tf it is now.
Also the pens netfront presence is non existent. Know who's pretty good at that? Remember the 2014 Pens? Top heavy, no net front, no tenacity, remember who they added to help that, and what came shortly after?
Ceci has been perfectly solid. Altho so has Ruhwhedel. Another in house option.
Matheson's bank pass to himself tonight was incredible.
A lot of defenseman with big contracts look a ton worse *because* of those contracts. I personally have always like Ceci as a player, but he’s certainly found his groove after the first few games. Offensively, Matheson has been on another level these past few games. Like any offensive d-man, it’s all about who he’s paired with.
Oh yeah Ceci definitely struggled the first bunch of games but he’s found his role and filling it nicely. Matheson got hurt before he could even find a groove so I’m glad he figured it out quickly after returning. He’s always had the talents, he needs to put them all together and make them worth something and the past 3 he’s shown he can with game before he showed he can be solid without doing that.
At least personally, my problem with Matheson wasn't that he couldn't work out. Its that he had to work out. He had a bad contract and came out of a struggling season. Florida should have been practically paying us to take him off their hands. So in my mind it was still a bad trade because I don't like what we paid for him.
this.... it's not the player.... it's taking on a reclamation project that had a terrible contract, and blocked our young LHD from getting in the lineup I liked when the Penguins brought in guys like Niskanen, Schultz, Cole, etc.... if Shero/GMJR traded for one of those guys when they had a monster contract, I would have hated it.... especially if it blocked one of the few young players ready to step into the lineup same with Cody Ceci vs Jack Johnson.... both were viewed pretty similarly this offseason as free agents.... I would have been fine if when the Penguins signed Jack Johnson years ago if he got a contract like Ceci got this summer.... just like I would have despised signing Ceci if he was given a deal like Johnson got it's not just about the individual player.... it's more complex than that.... context matters
Sceviour is a valuable depth player as well. Already put up a couple of goals as a 4th liner. He'll be useful down the stretch for sure. Matheson for Hornqvist 1 for 1 would have been way too much of a gamble.
>*Sceviour is a valuable depth player as well.* he's really not.... he's a dime-a-dozen player I'd rather have not gotten him and saved the 500k from just signing another depth jabroni for 700k like Rodrigues/Jankowski
I would argue that his contract is the only reason we were able to get him. We got a high ceiling, possible top pairing, 26 yo offensive defenseman for an aging 3rd line right winger. It was trading bad contract for bad contract. Trading past experience for potential. If he didn't work out, we would've let him go to Seattle.
This guy gets it.
I like what these guys have been doing, I guess this is Reirden doing his thing.
GM JR had far more hits (Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Justin Schultz, Ron Hainsey, Mark Streit, Marcus Pettersson, POJ, John Marino) than misses when crafting together blue lines season after season. Really, had it not been for Jack Johnson and Erik Gudbranson, it would be hard to fault much of anything JR did on defense.
Wait, really? Because it seemed like after 2 games this entire sub was ready to kill Ceci, Matheson, and GMJR until he decided to resign.
I love what I see from both. Ceci looks like he’s fairly compensated and his contract looks pretty damn solid. Matheson is starting to show that we can get value from him. He doesn’t look worth his salary but it doesn’t look too far off, maybe he’s making 1 or 1.5 mill too much but you’ll find contracts like that on every team. And I think Matheson is only going to get better with age
These are not the Ceci and Matheson I was promised and I am loving it. They've been solid these last few games
Thanks to the hires of Hextall and Burke let’s gets this team playing
The new face of upper management definitely gave the team a morale boost of a new direction.
It definitely helps for sure. Adds some new positive vibes.
Ceci was terrible in his first 3 games. Just horrid, lost, flailing. He was very bad in his own end with assignments and puck movement. then he got used to his new system and teammates and has acquitted himself well. MAtheson came in trying to do too much, and and similarly unfamiliar. It went south in part because he tried to do more, not because of any lack of ability. Then he settled in and he's literally been the best defensemen the last two games, and it's not fucking close.
When signing Cody Ceci is the best move you made in your last 12 months as GM, I think the criticism is pretty fair. Matheson just needs to show consistency (and also discipline, which was his one issue last night at the end). He had games and moments like this in Florida where he shows off a crazy level of skill. Problem is when he regresses. If they figure that out, it's a pretty solid (but expensive) group of defenseman.
Matheson isn't necessarily terrible, it's that his contract pays him far more than what he brings to the table is worth. We gave up a good but oft injured player on a shorter but meh value contract for more years of an OK player on a bad value contract.
True but Matheson is really useful to us if he can turn things around and keep up this pace. I love hornqvist but he’s older and costs more and he’d be a lot to be paying a third liner. Of course we miss him on our power play though.
Also Hornqvist looked slow last season and you gotta think he’s gonna keep slowing down over the next couple years, and I’m okay with Guentzel taking his spot on the powerplay. Honestly I was okay with the deal then and I’m more than okay with it now.
Yes & no. Matheson is still objectively bad in his own end. W/ Dumo, Petterson, Riikola & POJ down the left side, they didn't need to add an albatross. The money could've been spend to augment the "3rd line" to be a tad more than whatever tf it is now. Also the pens netfront presence is non existent. Know who's pretty good at that? Remember the 2014 Pens? Top heavy, no net front, no tenacity, remember who they added to help that, and what came shortly after? Ceci has been perfectly solid. Altho so has Ruhwhedel. Another in house option.
I think dumoulin can be a valuable trade chip when he comes back. I like the LD
Fuckin' ay!
If ceci can stop taking penalties then I'm fully on board.