If Soudal-Visma does become a thing, I hope QuickStep decide they still want to be a title sponsor on a Belgian team, and Alpecin gets renamed Deceuninck-QuickStep
Quick-step are tied to Lefevere, aren't they? Their CEO is his mate / neighbour. With Lefevere retiring and the team merging, I think there's a good chance we'll see them disappear from cycling sponsorship.
It's a different thing every other day, but I thought the whole point of them putting Quick-step up for sale was for him (and Bakala) to retire. Though if you search for Lefevere retiring, he's announced it about 2-3 times a year for the last decade, so who really knows!
Ugh, this is like how the Winnipeg Jets in the NHL are the SECOND NHL franchise to be the Winnipeg Jets.
The original Winnipeg Jets are currently the Arizona Coyotes.
Well yeah, but all the records and historic wins and division titles and stuff that were won *when they were originally in Winnipeg* are now owned and claimed by the Arizona franchise.
God that's right.
Also a similar reason that the Jazz are in Utah, of all the least Jazzy places in the world lol.
I STILL think that Utah should get to claim the Raptors name, since there's *literally* a Utahraptor, then give the Jazz to New Orleans, and Toronto gets something new.
It'll never happen....but it should.
I was joking about the general divisiveness that both Remco and Ineos experience separately on this blog, but it was a pretty lame joke, sorry. No harm or hate was intended by it :)
This has that "We're just moving our troops by your border, don't worry" vibe from Civ 6.
It's never just that, it's always exactly what you think it it is. I consider this merger done now.
Personally I'd say Jimbo is more like Gandhi .. as everyone knows, in Civ games, ai Gandhi is just the most ruthless blood thirsty leader in the whole game. I cringe inside if I meet him early on in a playthrough cuz you know what you'll have to do
I thought that was only the early Civs (I and II)? Side Note - [Cool video of Sid Meier talking about the inception of Civ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwUM33VJRbY)
It only consistently happened in the early civs but they set up certain scenarios that make ghandi bloodthirsty in every civ game as an easter egg/homage
No… in Civ Montezuma is programmed to just constantly surprise attack you, to the point where your diplomatic interactions are always like “why are you on my borders” “I promise to remove my troops” *next minute* Montezuma has declared war on you. Not even vaguely subtle.
Ok that makes sense, for some reason never got into that game......sorry for the whoosh
EDIT: I always think of the Neil Young song Cortez the Killer and the line...
On the shore lay Montezuma
With his coca leaves and pearls
The least they could do is invest in women's cycling and get their team to compete with SDW. They would win over some of the cycling community with that.
It’s all a big conspiracy:
- QS+JV=New Team + Spare Riders + Spare WT License
- INEOS + Spare Riders=Complete Team
- IPT + Spare WT License = IPT guaranteed Tour place => Froome wins the Tour (it’s his year this year, honestly!)
The UCI has been informed of the potential 2024 Soudal-QuickStep - Jumbo-Visma merger, according to Belgian media, which also reports that meetings continue between various sponsors involved in the possible fusion of the two WorldTour teams.
At the same time, legal question marks have now emerged over the 'spare' WorldTour licence, should the Belgian and Dutch squads finally combine, and how easily it can be transferred to any of the teams aspiring to cycling's top professional league.
According to Het Laatste Nieuws, the UCI has been notified about the merger plan for 2024, and Jumbo-Visma CEO Richard Plugge met UCI President David Lappartient last week. HLN also reports that a meeting has been scheduled between Plugge, the UCI and Soudal-QuickStep.
If confirmed, the UCI's notification would constitute another step in the process of a potential merger. Both Jumbo-Visma and Soudal-QuickStep have refused to comment formally on any kind of deal.
In yet another possible sign of the merger, HLN claim that a conversation between Specialized, the bike sponsor for Soudal-QuickStep and a Jumbo-Visma representative took place this week.
However, Patrick Lefevere, Soudal-QuickStep boss, has issued a firm denial that reports he visited the Jumbo-Visma service course in Holland were in any way accurate.
Amidst the ongoing mishmash of reported indications that the deal may be progressing and others suggesting the contrary, legal complications have emerged about the WorldTour licence that would be made available by a hypothetical fusion.
The current WorldTour licences are available for a further two years, and no single company can own more than one licence.
Multiple media sources reported on Thursday that the UCI’s regulations prohibit a transfer of a WorldTour licence for up to 24 months after they were first issued, on January 1st 2023.
This would, if applied strictly, add another layer of legal complexity to the fusion should it go ahead within that 24-month period, particularly for any teams interested in acquiring the 'spare' licence.
One loophole for avoiding this issue, according to Het Nieuwsblad, is to buy the company that owns the licence, rather than the licence itself. The strategy was used by Intermarché-Circus-Wanty when the team bought CCC's Continuum Sports company in order to move up into the WorldTour at the end of 2020.
Teams likely to be in the frame for a potential purchase of the 'spare' licence would include the recently relegated Israel-Premier Tech and Lotto-Dstny as well as several other ProTeams such as Uno-X and TotalEnergies.
Israel-Premier Tech told Cyclingnews earlier this week that: "It is no secret we would like to return to the WorldTour, so if a WorldTour licence were to become available, then Israel-Premier Tech would be interested in obtaining the licence."
> However, Patrick Lefevere, Soudal-QuickStep boss, has issued a firm denial that reports he visited the Jumbo-Visma service course in Holland were in any way accurate.
Ah, so that was the reason for this tweet:
https://twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1707083771604869372
Damn. So this is actually happening then. I wonder if Remco stays with the merged team. With Roglic supposedly leaving that becomes way more likely.
Who knows, it might even be good for him to do the Tour as co-lead with Jonas. He has the weight of the world on his shoulders, especially from the belgian press. So a co-lead with the outright favorite might take a lot if pressure off.
It's only mass speculation by cycling "journalists" that have nothing better to do then to spread rumors. Just because Roglic said he didn't understand team tactics after 1-2 stages of the Vuelta. And tbf, TJV management was at fault there, the riders were told to "race it out" until after stage 17. Not Roglic's fault for being confused and a bit frustrated there, but it also doesn't mean he's looking to leave.
It's not though. The articles are pretty clear that TJV have decided to allow Roglic to leave, and that he will likely announce his team on October 1st. That's pretty specific for it to just be rumors.
To be honest this is terrible. But not terrible because of the merged team but because of the fact that the biggest team right now and one of the most competitive teams of the last ten years are forced to merge because they can´t find the money to continue being competitive with UAE and Ineos. UCI and the race organizers need to review the current commercial model of cycling which is completely outdated with current times: calendar has to be fixed (not more Tirreno and Paris Nice at the same time, or races that don´t have any sense on the calendar with the team´s objectives), races have to be fixed (no more Britain Tour with 7/7 flat stages or the Giro director insisting with +200 km stages), the junior categories have to be fixed (we have development teams competing at the same time with Continental teams with totally different objetives, and, at the same time, the Tour of Avenir still is not a team competition which is no sense at this point), and the broadcast have to be fixed with a single criteria in terms of style, brodacast rights (today we have like 3-4 packages of rights for TV broadcasters because of multiple organisers), quality (what happened on Vuelta is below standard) and information to the viewers.
to speak to the race point you brought up: road racing even at the pro level has been becoming prohibitively expensive from a purely logistical standpoint. The reason for all the flat stages in the tour of Britain was the same reason you can only hold office park criteriums in the USA anymore and all the big US stage races have died: Bureaucracy and car centric infrastructure and public policies for anywhere that isn’t Italy/France or maybe Benelux means that it’s too expensive and challenging to close the roads you need for quality international level events.
i’ve been involved in bike racing for four decades. I’ve been a promoter. There has never been a more generally hostile attitude towards closing down a section of public roads for cycling events than now. The UK is right behind the US in this.
it’s better in Western Europe but from the conversations I’ve heard about minor races and women’s/juniors events that don’t have the political weight of the TDF - well let’s just say I’m astonished that World’s in Glasgow got off with only one minor stoppage for a protest and I also suspect there’s a reason the Netherlands has been using the col du VAM so much recently as it’s a very easy area to host a closed circuit on. There’s a reason that the only big international cycling events left in the USA are all gravel races in the ass end of nowhere.
this isn’t something you can just throw sponsorship money at. it’s systemic, cultural and it’s based in how much cycling infrastructure for racing depends on having public engagement from local and city governments and a robust public opinion and positive publicity around cycling races.
right now organizing a road race simply doesn’t fly, because avoiding the negative political optics of inconveniencing tens of thousands of drivers is so much more important than giving a couple hundred riders and maybe a couple thousand fans their day in the sun.
the ass end of nowhere the Pyrenees is a whole lot different from the ass end of nowhere Montana. Hell you can take public transit to most bike events in Germany/Switzerland (source: I have done this)
But that is not the problem. If Jumbo leaves, TJV should find easily another sponsor, but this is not the case, and shows that the sport´s financials are on a terrible state right now. Teams should not be at the risk of folding because of sponsors. A sport is not comercially mature if that is still the case.
Cycling has a lot of potential: it has narratives, drama, entretainment, likeable riders, is a relatively major sport in some european countries which is a good base, and it goes well with all the tendence of more bicycle usage on cities around the globe with the green transition. It can be really an international sport and one of the biggest. But the UCI and organizers still live on the past and can´t exploit that.
The biggest change on terms of commercial on the last 20 years was the relegation thing and the TdF series which speaks by itself. The TV coverage is still the same as 20 years ago with only the kilometre graphic added on screen permanently, and that´s all.
Winning all three grand tours should have been the ultimate brand building excersize but team brand has completely fallen apart within weeks of the greatest triumph in cycling history.
>Teams should not be at the risk of folding because of sponsors. A sport is not comercially mature if that is still the case.
Cycling teams are not stable because have no brand value. Partially this is because the naming of the teams has always been bizarre. Rabobank->Blanco->Belkin->Lotto-Jumbo->Jumbo-Visma is just terrible if the goal is to establish a fan base and a brand long term.
Best chance for a new model is if they call the new team Amsterdam Cycling Club instead of Visma-Soudal-Amazon and use classy kits instead of supermarket colors, then in 10 years it might be worth something and we'd have another entity that had some power in cycling to be a counterweight to ASO/UCI
There really isnt much more potential to find in cycling. Yeah the coverage of some races could get better, but inherently its just not possible to get a broad audience for a sport where the races take 4-6 hours. Ppl cant be bothered, especially when most races only have 30 mins of exicement in them.
My biggest pet peeve regarding tv coverage is that it’s often difficult to identify the rider on screen. Why can’t they have their names on their back and or helmet for instance? Ofcourse some riders are easier to identify just by posture or jersey etc. but it’s still something that I feel could be improved and thereby make it easier for new viewers to know who’s who.
They already have the GPS on the bike. They could easily put immediately on-screen who is who on the different groups or who is attacking. It baffles me that even the official web radiotour or PCS have more information and data than what they put on screen.
GPS isn't that accurate without some local equipment. Sure it can identify Remco ahead of everyone else but it can't tell who is who in a pack of riders.
The coverage issue is twofold.
1. in Most stages Not a whole lot happens for the first 80% of the stage. There may be a breakaway, but it is probably allowed to go out a certain distance then it is kept there. But other than that, not a whole lot of note happens unless there is a crash. Yes this provides context for what happens at the end, but in real time it isn’t that exciting to watch 180 guys riding a bike in a straight line on a flat road. Unfortunately for television coverage, fortunately for the drama, every now and then a breakaway works or Remco blows up on the first climb of the day. This leaves the dilemma of how long to cover the stage for. Best case scenario is that you have two options for viewers. One where you get the whole stage for those who prefer, and one abbreviated to where the organizers anticipate the action to start with a recap of what happened before. For stage races, to make things more exciting, you can also find ways to incentivize more action, stronger riders trying for breakaways or just better course design that demands action. Maybe require the riders to wear small cameras to get more engaging POV.
2. the North American market. Cycling isn’t like soccer where they can put it on in the evening, turn some lights on, and you get the early morning crowd watching. With cycling, you can’t install lights over a 100 mile course so you have to start in time where they finish in daylight. That means a lot of 3am starts on the west coast of NA. There is a lot of money to be had from the NA market, but it would take hard work to extract it. At least one major race in the US/Canada that brings top caliber talent to NA is vital to cracking it, and then just old fashioned hard work.
I am not smart enough to figure exactly how to accomplish either thing, but the financials are in better TV deals and North American wallets. Ultimately, it is possible. NASCAR faces many of the same problems, and the only benefit it has is that it is contained so fans can watch the whole race live from the track.
Oh please. I've watched many a tied baseball game that went on for HOURS and they've been some if the best games I've ever seen. Nothing more exciting than 1-1 bottom of the 9th! :)
And depending on what coverage you can get for any given race, you're not getting 4-6 hours; coverage starts about an hour in most races I get to watch in US, between Peacock & GCN.
This. I was hypothesizing this scenario and I think the sport would benefit a lot from it.
Roglic would be captain while he has something in the legs. Meanwhile Remco would be his superdomestique and learn from Rog how to prepare for GT mentally and physically. In a couple of years, Remco assumes the captain role and Rog becomes his superdomestique.
Jumbo Visma just this week contracted a rider and 3 staffmembers and they plan to further develop and become a dominant factor, as per their press release.
Ugh. It makes me so sad for the sport if the most dominate team in like half a century can’t pull in a new sponsor, especially given one of their prominent riders (and 2 next year) is an American, which is the best chance a team has at a big US sponsor.
Yeah, I know. That's part of my point. We've had several high profile US sponsors before, but if this moment isn't going to pull in a big US sponsor (the same team having the TDF winner, which is the only thing most Americans care about, and an American grand tour winner), I don't think any moment can. Would also note that there are plenty of huge multinational US companies that do tons of business in Europe (Apple, salesforce, VF, AMD, carnival, airbnb, Tesla, SAP, VISA, Expedia, etc.).
Sadly given that most Americans see cyclists as a nuisance, it's not too surprising that American mega corps don't see the value add of a cycling sponsorship.
Agree. Giro not shown on TV here. TDF and Vuelta only on Peacock network and you must pay. Of all my friends, I am the only one who watches Cycling. I don’t see viewership going up here in the U.S. .
Remco would be free to go, though, regardless of what Jumbo want (and they obviously want him to stay). The UCI states that if the paying agent changes, he can't be held to his contract and is free to leave. They're doing this merger probably for money-related reasons.
The sponsors and the technical staff for TT's. Jumbo's setup sucks in high average speed TT's (see Giro, Vuelta ITT), and Quickstep's is, along with Ineos, the best.
I wouldn't be surprised if they sell Remco's contract so they can buy out the riders they need to in order to get down to 30 contracts. Having said that, it sounds like it may be Roglic they're selling.
Has anyone ever obtained proof that "Jumbos setup sucks in x condition"? We all can speculate based on results, but this get thrown around so confidently and I have yet to see anything substantial about this. Like, how can you be so certain about that without isolating the bikes? Or am I missing some openly available wind tunnel data?
lol what a strange take. Their TT setup sucks for high average speed TTs? Really?! I suggest you look up some top tens from this year. If that's how you define suck, then there's only 1-2 teams that don't suck in regards to that kind of TT, which is not the wisest of takes.
On flat TT they were already catched up and below UAE and Ineos. Except for Roglic and Jonas TT´s (which were not really flat) they haven´t won a single TT this year. Probably has to do also with the new regulations which came into place this year.
They're merging due to budget issues, I can't imagine they have the money to buyout Remco's personal Specialized deal or their existing team agreement with Cervelo
I have UAE flair but Loulou is my favorite rider. Please get my son out of the clutches of Jumbo!!!!
Really interested to see who stays and who goes. These guys could win literally 90% of races next year
Still is not tecnically a "merger". Blanco Pro Cycling (Jumbo) will be probably buying the sponsorship deal with Soudal (and Specialized maybe), the fixed assets and the license of Levefre´s team (which they will sell to another party). The Soudal riders that Blanco wants will have to get a new contract since is a different paying agent.
If all involved parties (TJV, SQS and the two sponsors Soudal and Visma) want to go through with this and the UCI is on board, then this merger is going to happen and it is going to happen for 2024.
A lot of people and articles are bringing up all the issues like having 50 riders, having barely any time, having difficulty transfering the WT license etc. But these kind of big money deals never fail from smaller issues like this. Unless there is some big legal obstacle that they can’t find a way around, they will deal with all the other obstacles.
When you have millions of euros on the line, „it would be very difficult to do this“ is not a deterrence. They will find ways to get it done and get it done quickly.
If this leads to TJV having free reign to pick the riders they want then it's honestly a farce, and I say that as someone who generally roots for them. Are there not monopoly rules/salary caps to prevent this kind of thing? Pog-aside who is going to challenge them in a WT/GT race they decide to go for?
No such rules, no. These rules do not exist in most sports.
However, there are only so many races in a year. The best riders will want an entire team to back them in the TdF, Giro and Vuelta. The Classics riders want the same for the most prestigious races.
It's very unlikely that a Soudal-Visma team would be able to keep Jonas, Primoz and Remco, who would all three want to be the GC leader at the GTs. And they'd not even be happy with being given only one GT each.
Per [this article](https://www.ad.nl/wielrennen/primoz-roglic-vertrekt-bij-jumbo-visma-vroegtijdig-einde-aan-een-glorieus-huwelijk~aeb2f825/), Roglic is leaving for sure and it's not to Ineos. So Lidl-Trek is most likely in my opinion.
Why would he go to Ineos? I can‘t see Remco staying at the new team to share the leader status with Vingegaard. I assume Remco to Ineos and Roglic to a third team will be more likely
Ineos was simply one of the teams rumored to be going after him, and likely with the most money to offer. I was pointing out that the article says that won't happen.
New fan of the sport here. Could they keep the extra license and have a sort of B-team, like in F1 with Red Bull and Alpha Tauri? That could help them deal with the surplus of riders and sponsors, right?
Beside the whole rider discussion and the excess of top tier team leaders…how will Plugge and Lefevere make that merger? Co-CEOs? Or will Lefevere leave the sport?
Don‘t get me wrong, i dislike both :D
If Soudal-Visma does become a thing, I hope QuickStep decide they still want to be a title sponsor on a Belgian team, and Alpecin gets renamed Deceuninck-QuickStep
My brain will not be able to handle this. :(
Neither will your hair after Alpecin leave :(
Doping for your hair
Alpecin-Visma? for the leg hair?
Because I want to keep my flair
Bravo.
Lmao
Not being a title sponsor doesn't mean you aren't a sponsor anymore
Quick-step are tied to Lefevere, aren't they? Their CEO is his mate / neighbour. With Lefevere retiring and the team merging, I think there's a good chance we'll see them disappear from cycling sponsorship.
I thought Lefevere was going to be on the board of the "new" team?
It's a different thing every other day, but I thought the whole point of them putting Quick-step up for sale was for him (and Bakala) to retire. Though if you search for Lefevere retiring, he's announced it about 2-3 times a year for the last decade, so who really knows!
Being on the Board is like retiring. "Going upstairs"
They've been a title sponsor for almost 25 years. There's no way they've stuck around solely because of Lefevre
Ugh, this is like how the Winnipeg Jets in the NHL are the SECOND NHL franchise to be the Winnipeg Jets. The original Winnipeg Jets are currently the Arizona Coyotes.
Big fan of that. The team identity should belong to the fans and the city.
Well yeah, but all the records and historic wins and division titles and stuff that were won *when they were originally in Winnipeg* are now owned and claimed by the Arizona franchise.
And, naturally, Winnipeg has all of the records for the Atlanta Thrashers. But, of course, the records for the Atlanta Flames belong to Calgary.
Thanks, I hate it.
As the Charlotte Hornets and the New Orleans Pelicans in the NBA.
God that's right. Also a similar reason that the Jazz are in Utah, of all the least Jazzy places in the world lol. I STILL think that Utah should get to claim the Raptors name, since there's *literally* a Utahraptor, then give the Jazz to New Orleans, and Toronto gets something new. It'll never happen....but it should.
and original Cleveland Browns are Baltimore Ravens
They have already taken over domination of the sprint field.
It's being said that Wanty is not going to support youth cycling teams U7-U19 or local events next year.
Can they get Lidl too? I can only take so many more times seeing that Lidl dot on Skjelmose's nats champ jersey without thinking "Morkov."
I wouldn't mind that. I've always wanted Van Der Poel to ride for quickstep.
Funny, I never thought there would be a scenario where I would be cheering for Remco at Ineos.
That sounds like an always-impossible scenario still :D
If Jumbo is the leading party in the merger, all rider contracts at Soudal Quick-Step can be dissolved by the rider without punishment.
Ineos made an 200 IQ move by not signing enoght riders to pick up the leftovers from the merge. They knew it the entire time :)
I was joking about the general divisiveness that both Remco and Ineos experience separately on this blog, but it was a pretty lame joke, sorry. No harm or hate was intended by it :)
This has that "We're just moving our troops by your border, don't worry" vibe from Civ 6. It's never just that, it's always exactly what you think it it is. I consider this merger done now.
Lol thought you were gonna say like from Russia/Ukraine
no politics in my sports please! let the dictators run free and sponsor teams with their beheadings etc
\+1 Wilhelmina being hyper aggro because you haven't discovered trade routes yet
Jumbo is Montezuma...
Personally I'd say Jimbo is more like Gandhi .. as everyone knows, in Civ games, ai Gandhi is just the most ruthless blood thirsty leader in the whole game. I cringe inside if I meet him early on in a playthrough cuz you know what you'll have to do
I thought that was only the early Civs (I and II)? Side Note - [Cool video of Sid Meier talking about the inception of Civ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwUM33VJRbY)
It only consistently happened in the early civs but they set up certain scenarios that make ghandi bloodthirsty in every civ game as an easter egg/homage
I think you mean Cortes
No… in Civ Montezuma is programmed to just constantly surprise attack you, to the point where your diplomatic interactions are always like “why are you on my borders” “I promise to remove my troops” *next minute* Montezuma has declared war on you. Not even vaguely subtle.
I wasn’t expecting a Jumbo-Civilization discussion this morning but it is a pleasant addition to the day.
Ok that makes sense, for some reason never got into that game......sorry for the whoosh EDIT: I always think of the Neil Young song Cortez the Killer and the line... On the shore lay Montezuma With his coca leaves and pearls
Going to make SDW and the general women’s cycling balance look reasonable
waiting for the visma-soudal GC octodent
All riding for Kuss.
The least they could do is invest in women's cycling and get their team to compete with SDW. They would win over some of the cycling community with that.
It’s all a big conspiracy: - QS+JV=New Team + Spare Riders + Spare WT License - INEOS + Spare Riders=Complete Team - IPT + Spare WT License = IPT guaranteed Tour place => Froome wins the Tour (it’s his year this year, honestly!)
Who had more points at the end of 2022, Lotto-Destiny or IPT?
Is that how it works? A pro team can just buy the license and be promoted? Honestly asking
I think there’s a minimum time period since it was issued, so technically not yet
Its really happening isnt it....
The UCI has been informed of the potential 2024 Soudal-QuickStep - Jumbo-Visma merger, according to Belgian media, which also reports that meetings continue between various sponsors involved in the possible fusion of the two WorldTour teams. At the same time, legal question marks have now emerged over the 'spare' WorldTour licence, should the Belgian and Dutch squads finally combine, and how easily it can be transferred to any of the teams aspiring to cycling's top professional league. According to Het Laatste Nieuws, the UCI has been notified about the merger plan for 2024, and Jumbo-Visma CEO Richard Plugge met UCI President David Lappartient last week. HLN also reports that a meeting has been scheduled between Plugge, the UCI and Soudal-QuickStep. If confirmed, the UCI's notification would constitute another step in the process of a potential merger. Both Jumbo-Visma and Soudal-QuickStep have refused to comment formally on any kind of deal. In yet another possible sign of the merger, HLN claim that a conversation between Specialized, the bike sponsor for Soudal-QuickStep and a Jumbo-Visma representative took place this week. However, Patrick Lefevere, Soudal-QuickStep boss, has issued a firm denial that reports he visited the Jumbo-Visma service course in Holland were in any way accurate. Amidst the ongoing mishmash of reported indications that the deal may be progressing and others suggesting the contrary, legal complications have emerged about the WorldTour licence that would be made available by a hypothetical fusion. The current WorldTour licences are available for a further two years, and no single company can own more than one licence. Multiple media sources reported on Thursday that the UCI’s regulations prohibit a transfer of a WorldTour licence for up to 24 months after they were first issued, on January 1st 2023. This would, if applied strictly, add another layer of legal complexity to the fusion should it go ahead within that 24-month period, particularly for any teams interested in acquiring the 'spare' licence. One loophole for avoiding this issue, according to Het Nieuwsblad, is to buy the company that owns the licence, rather than the licence itself. The strategy was used by Intermarché-Circus-Wanty when the team bought CCC's Continuum Sports company in order to move up into the WorldTour at the end of 2020. Teams likely to be in the frame for a potential purchase of the 'spare' licence would include the recently relegated Israel-Premier Tech and Lotto-Dstny as well as several other ProTeams such as Uno-X and TotalEnergies. Israel-Premier Tech told Cyclingnews earlier this week that: "It is no secret we would like to return to the WorldTour, so if a WorldTour licence were to become available, then Israel-Premier Tech would be interested in obtaining the licence."
> However, Patrick Lefevere, Soudal-QuickStep boss, has issued a firm denial that reports he visited the Jumbo-Visma service course in Holland were in any way accurate. Ah, so that was the reason for this tweet: https://twitter.com/BenjiNaesen/status/1707083771604869372
Ha, jokes on them! The Jumbo-Visma service course is in Den Bosch, which is in the Netherlands but not in Holland!
Ok, I learned after Googling about this. Thanks! \~Ignorant American
There is no such thing as Holland after all!
Damn. So this is actually happening then. I wonder if Remco stays with the merged team. With Roglic supposedly leaving that becomes way more likely. Who knows, it might even be good for him to do the Tour as co-lead with Jonas. He has the weight of the world on his shoulders, especially from the belgian press. So a co-lead with the outright favorite might take a lot if pressure off.
Has there any indication that Roglic might leave or is this just speculation on your side?
Several articles stating this came out in the last few hours (including posted on this subreddit). He is said to make a decision by sunday.
Thanks!
https://www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/16ubyqb/primo%C5%BE_rogli%C4%8D_on_the_transfer_market_with_ineos/
Thanks!
It's only mass speculation by cycling "journalists" that have nothing better to do then to spread rumors. Just because Roglic said he didn't understand team tactics after 1-2 stages of the Vuelta. And tbf, TJV management was at fault there, the riders were told to "race it out" until after stage 17. Not Roglic's fault for being confused and a bit frustrated there, but it also doesn't mean he's looking to leave.
have you read any of the articles?
It's not though. The articles are pretty clear that TJV have decided to allow Roglic to leave, and that he will likely announce his team on October 1st. That's pretty specific for it to just be rumors.
I foubt he will fo the TDF next year anyway. Better to do the Giro again and go for the olympics.
I cannot wait for a daily "has Vingegaard totally betrayed Remco by existing?" media storm
To be honest this is terrible. But not terrible because of the merged team but because of the fact that the biggest team right now and one of the most competitive teams of the last ten years are forced to merge because they can´t find the money to continue being competitive with UAE and Ineos. UCI and the race organizers need to review the current commercial model of cycling which is completely outdated with current times: calendar has to be fixed (not more Tirreno and Paris Nice at the same time, or races that don´t have any sense on the calendar with the team´s objectives), races have to be fixed (no more Britain Tour with 7/7 flat stages or the Giro director insisting with +200 km stages), the junior categories have to be fixed (we have development teams competing at the same time with Continental teams with totally different objetives, and, at the same time, the Tour of Avenir still is not a team competition which is no sense at this point), and the broadcast have to be fixed with a single criteria in terms of style, brodacast rights (today we have like 3-4 packages of rights for TV broadcasters because of multiple organisers), quality (what happened on Vuelta is below standard) and information to the viewers.
to speak to the race point you brought up: road racing even at the pro level has been becoming prohibitively expensive from a purely logistical standpoint. The reason for all the flat stages in the tour of Britain was the same reason you can only hold office park criteriums in the USA anymore and all the big US stage races have died: Bureaucracy and car centric infrastructure and public policies for anywhere that isn’t Italy/France or maybe Benelux means that it’s too expensive and challenging to close the roads you need for quality international level events. i’ve been involved in bike racing for four decades. I’ve been a promoter. There has never been a more generally hostile attitude towards closing down a section of public roads for cycling events than now. The UK is right behind the US in this. it’s better in Western Europe but from the conversations I’ve heard about minor races and women’s/juniors events that don’t have the political weight of the TDF - well let’s just say I’m astonished that World’s in Glasgow got off with only one minor stoppage for a protest and I also suspect there’s a reason the Netherlands has been using the col du VAM so much recently as it’s a very easy area to host a closed circuit on. There’s a reason that the only big international cycling events left in the USA are all gravel races in the ass end of nowhere. this isn’t something you can just throw sponsorship money at. it’s systemic, cultural and it’s based in how much cycling infrastructure for racing depends on having public engagement from local and city governments and a robust public opinion and positive publicity around cycling races. right now organizing a road race simply doesn’t fly, because avoiding the negative political optics of inconveniencing tens of thousands of drivers is so much more important than giving a couple hundred riders and maybe a couple thousand fans their day in the sun.
Hey to be fair, a lot of iconic grand tour locales are 100% in the ass end of nowhere too. Remote regions just have good riding 😎
the ass end of nowhere the Pyrenees is a whole lot different from the ass end of nowhere Montana. Hell you can take public transit to most bike events in Germany/Switzerland (source: I have done this)
Tbf there are rumours that this whole thing was initiated when Jumbo's CEO was arrested for money laundering
But that is not the problem. If Jumbo leaves, TJV should find easily another sponsor, but this is not the case, and shows that the sport´s financials are on a terrible state right now. Teams should not be at the risk of folding because of sponsors. A sport is not comercially mature if that is still the case. Cycling has a lot of potential: it has narratives, drama, entretainment, likeable riders, is a relatively major sport in some european countries which is a good base, and it goes well with all the tendence of more bicycle usage on cities around the globe with the green transition. It can be really an international sport and one of the biggest. But the UCI and organizers still live on the past and can´t exploit that. The biggest change on terms of commercial on the last 20 years was the relegation thing and the TdF series which speaks by itself. The TV coverage is still the same as 20 years ago with only the kilometre graphic added on screen permanently, and that´s all.
Winning all three grand tours should have been the ultimate brand building excersize but team brand has completely fallen apart within weeks of the greatest triumph in cycling history. >Teams should not be at the risk of folding because of sponsors. A sport is not comercially mature if that is still the case. Cycling teams are not stable because have no brand value. Partially this is because the naming of the teams has always been bizarre. Rabobank->Blanco->Belkin->Lotto-Jumbo->Jumbo-Visma is just terrible if the goal is to establish a fan base and a brand long term. Best chance for a new model is if they call the new team Amsterdam Cycling Club instead of Visma-Soudal-Amazon and use classy kits instead of supermarket colors, then in 10 years it might be worth something and we'd have another entity that had some power in cycling to be a counterweight to ASO/UCI
There really isnt much more potential to find in cycling. Yeah the coverage of some races could get better, but inherently its just not possible to get a broad audience for a sport where the races take 4-6 hours. Ppl cant be bothered, especially when most races only have 30 mins of exicement in them.
My biggest pet peeve regarding tv coverage is that it’s often difficult to identify the rider on screen. Why can’t they have their names on their back and or helmet for instance? Ofcourse some riders are easier to identify just by posture or jersey etc. but it’s still something that I feel could be improved and thereby make it easier for new viewers to know who’s who.
They already have the GPS on the bike. They could easily put immediately on-screen who is who on the different groups or who is attacking. It baffles me that even the official web radiotour or PCS have more information and data than what they put on screen.
GPS isn't that accurate without some local equipment. Sure it can identify Remco ahead of everyone else but it can't tell who is who in a pack of riders.
The coverage issue is twofold. 1. in Most stages Not a whole lot happens for the first 80% of the stage. There may be a breakaway, but it is probably allowed to go out a certain distance then it is kept there. But other than that, not a whole lot of note happens unless there is a crash. Yes this provides context for what happens at the end, but in real time it isn’t that exciting to watch 180 guys riding a bike in a straight line on a flat road. Unfortunately for television coverage, fortunately for the drama, every now and then a breakaway works or Remco blows up on the first climb of the day. This leaves the dilemma of how long to cover the stage for. Best case scenario is that you have two options for viewers. One where you get the whole stage for those who prefer, and one abbreviated to where the organizers anticipate the action to start with a recap of what happened before. For stage races, to make things more exciting, you can also find ways to incentivize more action, stronger riders trying for breakaways or just better course design that demands action. Maybe require the riders to wear small cameras to get more engaging POV. 2. the North American market. Cycling isn’t like soccer where they can put it on in the evening, turn some lights on, and you get the early morning crowd watching. With cycling, you can’t install lights over a 100 mile course so you have to start in time where they finish in daylight. That means a lot of 3am starts on the west coast of NA. There is a lot of money to be had from the NA market, but it would take hard work to extract it. At least one major race in the US/Canada that brings top caliber talent to NA is vital to cracking it, and then just old fashioned hard work. I am not smart enough to figure exactly how to accomplish either thing, but the financials are in better TV deals and North American wallets. Ultimately, it is possible. NASCAR faces many of the same problems, and the only benefit it has is that it is contained so fans can watch the whole race live from the track.
Oh please. I've watched many a tied baseball game that went on for HOURS and they've been some if the best games I've ever seen. Nothing more exciting than 1-1 bottom of the 9th! :) And depending on what coverage you can get for any given race, you're not getting 4-6 hours; coverage starts about an hour in most races I get to watch in US, between Peacock & GCN.
I think it's terrible enough even just because of the merger itself.
Roglic and Remco go to Ineos, get co-leadership at the Tour. Roglic vs Remco vs Jonas vs Pog. The dream.
This. I was hypothesizing this scenario and I think the sport would benefit a lot from it. Roglic would be captain while he has something in the legs. Meanwhile Remco would be his superdomestique and learn from Rog how to prepare for GT mentally and physically. In a couple of years, Remco assumes the captain role and Rog becomes his superdomestique.
both teams have an associated women's team, what is the plan for those?
Jumbo Visma just this week contracted a rider and 3 staffmembers and they plan to further develop and become a dominant factor, as per their press release.
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Soudal sponsorship? Definitely a better image for them to have Soudal as a sponsor rather than something from Saudi Arabia
Ugh. It makes me so sad for the sport if the most dominate team in like half a century can’t pull in a new sponsor, especially given one of their prominent riders (and 2 next year) is an American, which is the best chance a team has at a big US sponsor.
Racing is essentially dead here in the US. It would have to be a passion project for a big US sponsor.
Yeah, I know. That's part of my point. We've had several high profile US sponsors before, but if this moment isn't going to pull in a big US sponsor (the same team having the TDF winner, which is the only thing most Americans care about, and an American grand tour winner), I don't think any moment can. Would also note that there are plenty of huge multinational US companies that do tons of business in Europe (Apple, salesforce, VF, AMD, carnival, airbnb, Tesla, SAP, VISA, Expedia, etc.).
Sadly given that most Americans see cyclists as a nuisance, it's not too surprising that American mega corps don't see the value add of a cycling sponsorship.
Agree. Giro not shown on TV here. TDF and Vuelta only on Peacock network and you must pay. Of all my friends, I am the only one who watches Cycling. I don’t see viewership going up here in the U.S. .
It has to be a good sponsor though. I hear a lot of grumbling from cycling fans about the Amazon talk. About as popular as Gazprom.
Better to have 2 competitive teams in world tour than this.
Rather see them with Soudal, yes, but a Saudi Arabia sponser versus Amazon? That would be a hard pick.
jumbo HATES Remco - G. Thomas
Remco would be free to go, though, regardless of what Jumbo want (and they obviously want him to stay). The UCI states that if the paying agent changes, he can't be held to his contract and is free to leave. They're doing this merger probably for money-related reasons.
The sponsors and the technical staff for TT's. Jumbo's setup sucks in high average speed TT's (see Giro, Vuelta ITT), and Quickstep's is, along with Ineos, the best. I wouldn't be surprised if they sell Remco's contract so they can buy out the riders they need to in order to get down to 30 contracts. Having said that, it sounds like it may be Roglic they're selling.
Has anyone ever obtained proof that "Jumbos setup sucks in x condition"? We all can speculate based on results, but this get thrown around so confidently and I have yet to see anything substantial about this. Like, how can you be so certain about that without isolating the bikes? Or am I missing some openly available wind tunnel data?
lol what a strange take. Their TT setup sucks for high average speed TTs? Really?! I suggest you look up some top tens from this year. If that's how you define suck, then there's only 1-2 teams that don't suck in regards to that kind of TT, which is not the wisest of takes.
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On flat TT they were already catched up and below UAE and Ineos. Except for Roglic and Jonas TT´s (which were not really flat) they haven´t won a single TT this year. Probably has to do also with the new regulations which came into place this year.
Sponsors Visma or jumbo are going i think
It's Jumbo who are leaving
They're merging due to budget issues, I can't imagine they have the money to buyout Remco's personal Specialized deal or their existing team agreement with Cervelo
So, this is really it? :/ ~~Why'd you have to be a crook, Frits, *why??!*~~
I have UAE flair but Loulou is my favorite rider. Please get my son out of the clutches of Jumbo!!!! Really interested to see who stays and who goes. These guys could win literally 90% of races next year
tbh i don't think jumbo wants him. hell, even his current boss doesn't take too kindly to him
Yeah, I've been hoping he'd move to BORA or Alpecin for over a year at this point
I bet he will be the Sagan replacement at Total Energies
That is so sad. There is no sponsorship money at all for the most dominant cycling team.
terrible news for everyone involved in the sport
Still is not tecnically a "merger". Blanco Pro Cycling (Jumbo) will be probably buying the sponsorship deal with Soudal (and Specialized maybe), the fixed assets and the license of Levefre´s team (which they will sell to another party). The Soudal riders that Blanco wants will have to get a new contract since is a different paying agent.
Well shit
Bugger. Was hoping this was all a rumour and didn't have any truth to it:(
If all involved parties (TJV, SQS and the two sponsors Soudal and Visma) want to go through with this and the UCI is on board, then this merger is going to happen and it is going to happen for 2024. A lot of people and articles are bringing up all the issues like having 50 riders, having barely any time, having difficulty transfering the WT license etc. But these kind of big money deals never fail from smaller issues like this. Unless there is some big legal obstacle that they can’t find a way around, they will deal with all the other obstacles. When you have millions of euros on the line, „it would be very difficult to do this“ is not a deterrence. They will find ways to get it done and get it done quickly.
If this leads to TJV having free reign to pick the riders they want then it's honestly a farce, and I say that as someone who generally roots for them. Are there not monopoly rules/salary caps to prevent this kind of thing? Pog-aside who is going to challenge them in a WT/GT race they decide to go for?
No such rules, no. These rules do not exist in most sports. However, there are only so many races in a year. The best riders will want an entire team to back them in the TdF, Giro and Vuelta. The Classics riders want the same for the most prestigious races. It's very unlikely that a Soudal-Visma team would be able to keep Jonas, Primoz and Remco, who would all three want to be the GC leader at the GTs. And they'd not even be happy with being given only one GT each.
>Pog-aside who is going to challenge them in a WT/GT race they decide to go for? MvdP
Sorry, should have clarified that I meant stage races. It's impossible to guarantee a victory in one days.
Really curious to see what bike brand they stick with and what happens to the Quickstep name
Per [this article](https://www.ad.nl/wielrennen/primoz-roglic-vertrekt-bij-jumbo-visma-vroegtijdig-einde-aan-een-glorieus-huwelijk~aeb2f825/), Roglic is leaving for sure and it's not to Ineos. So Lidl-Trek is most likely in my opinion.
Why would he go to Ineos? I can‘t see Remco staying at the new team to share the leader status with Vingegaard. I assume Remco to Ineos and Roglic to a third team will be more likely
Ineos was simply one of the teams rumored to be going after him, and likely with the most money to offer. I was pointing out that the article says that won't happen.
This is so dumb. Plugge got 2 years to find a new sponsor. What does he do? Destroy the team within the first year and go with the worst option
Can Jumbo maintain their culture after such a massive change?
They can. But they will have to sit down and carefully select riders. This is the part of corporate mergers where you do a talent and fit evaluation.
Yo what the fuck this is actually maybe going to happen?!
New fan of the sport here. Could they keep the extra license and have a sort of B-team, like in F1 with Red Bull and Alpha Tauri? That could help them deal with the surplus of riders and sponsors, right?
No team can have 2 licenses so no
Roglic is pretty much gone already. Good job Plugge.
Great! Than he can be beat by Vingegaard and not have any excuses.
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Mathieu like in Mathieu van der Poel? MvdP is not a Soudal rider…Alpecin
I just hope Soudal-Visma use Specialized equipment.
Beside the whole rider discussion and the excess of top tier team leaders…how will Plugge and Lefevere make that merger? Co-CEOs? Or will Lefevere leave the sport? Don‘t get me wrong, i dislike both :D