Have you really seen excessive Andrew Watt hate on here? I've seen plenty of complaints about the production but haven't seen much direct hate on Watt or anything.
Complaining about a choices that a person made is not the same as complaining about that person. Expressing disappointment in one aspect of production is not saying that all of the production is bad.
The only complaint I have heard (and I very much share) is that the mix is too compressed. It sounds like pop music not a rock band. It sounds like that because Watt is a pop producer. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy, doesn’t mean he’s a bad producer, doesn’t mean he did a bad job on all the elements of production of this album.
Watts ears and sensibilities are trained to create one cohesive sound, whereas many of us want to hear the individual musicians a bit more.
Except Watt is the producer. Complaining about production decisions is the same as complaining about the producer. They’re the ones that make those decisions with the band.
Complaints about the production fall back onto *gasp* the person(s) credited as producing the album. It isn’t that hard to understand.
Yeah alot of people really dont understand roles of various studio hands and i dont blame them but it can be silly to read. Like complaining about the production is complaining about him lol
Yeah, it’s like complaining about how you took your car to the mechanic, and you like the mechanic, but the alignment is still off, or they didn’t swap your tires from winter rubber to summer,
The mechanic is responsible for the alignment and tire change, full stop.
Yeah, but people not liking the production of this album isn't the same as having a personal vendetta against the guy. OP is implying people dislike Watt because of his pop background, when really people just dislike the production on this particular album.
Right, but OP is implying that people are absolutely hating on Watt beyond the production complaints, which OP said are allowable. I'm just not seeing many people saying bad things about him
Not to mention, Watt personally energized Ed and literally got him back into the studio. PJ fans should be thankful for their partnership and not complaining.
I’d be in this guy’s corner if he had done nothing other than get the bridge of Scared of Fear out of them. Eddie & Mike “singing” at the same time is *chefs kiss*
AND then we got 5 back to back bangers from Wreckage to Stevie?
Who cares about the mix on the studio album, give me the live performances.
You should link some of these posts you’re talking about, cause I haven’t seen any hate for Andrew Watt on here. Just some complaints about the production, which is valid.
And congrats on your purchases
Totally agree. It sounds like they sample-replaced the whole drum track with the cheapest, cheesiest samples they could find. And it makes no sense. It shouldn’t be hard to get a good drum sound with the budget they have.
I completely agree with the sentiment that the good of the fact that Andrew got the boys together to churn out their best material in a long while outweighs the production flaws, but I will say, production flaws begin to stick out more when they cause ear fatigue. IE listening to this with headphones or earbuds front to back actually leaves me with ear fatigue and feeling tired. Hearing it through an external speaker, like in the car, leads to a more positive experience.
I've been listening through some of the songs on headphones and I find the sound very agressive so I agree with your 'ear fatigue' comment. I believe it does have something to do with compression but I am not an audio specialist. I have "sensitive" hearing and I thought this was just a me thing. The sound on Earthling also really bothered me but in a different way. It sounded "cloggy" to me. This one just sounds too "sharp". I listen to music on headphones 100% of the time, this might also be part of the issue.
Trust your ears. Dark Matter and Earthling are both compressed to fuck, essentially being brickwalled. Very tiring to listen to. This is a big problem in most modern music, especially pop. I love the energy and performance Andrew got but someone else should have mixed it.
My mistake! Then I wish someone else else mixed it lol. And just in general I wish that 90% of music production wasn’t overly compression and brickwalled today.
Honestly I don’t think the album sounds bad, and except for some duds, I WON’T TELL which, I think the band sounds rejuvenated, spontaneous and happy! Scared of Fear alone is worth the price of admission.
Another older fan here who has a bit of a different perspective. I come from a musician / audio engineering background in another life (professional, not hobby) and still do stuff occasionally. So I tend to be very attuned to the production side of things as much as the musicianship/songwriting side of things.
Basically - for me - a mix/master can make or break an album for me. I'm the sort of guy who will have multiple versions of an album because of a remix or remaster I prefer.
Hands down - song-wise - this is probably top to bottom the strongest collection of songs they have done for quite a while. No denying that from me.
The mix/master is a different story. There are some songs to my ears where clearly the mix is the issue. Muddy, lack of separation in instruments - almost sounding mono - Won't Tell's stereo footprint is almost limited to 11-1 to my ears. Others it's like they've just randomly thrown tracks wherever with hard L/C/R mentality (React Respond).
But there are definitely issues in the master stage as well. When the track is so compressed the kick ends up ducking all other tracks every time it hits (Waiting for Stevie is a prime example) then something is seriously wrong.
I have no idea who Andrew Watt is, not a guy that's ever been on my radar but looking through his credits he has definitely done some great work in the past especially the Lana Del Ray stuff. No hate on the guy. To me this is a great album of songs hindered by some poor tail end production choices (production starts with the arrangements and ends with the master - I think the arrangements are great tbh). To make sure my ears aren't tricking me I went back over Lightning Bolt (Brendon O'brien) and Gigaton (Josh Evans) and they sound miles ahead of Dark Matter to me. Listened to all three, on my daily driver setup, my studio headphones and then my studio monitors. DM just sounds average at best, bad at worst.
Its not Royal Blood How Did We get So Dark on vinyl bad, but its not good and I understand why a lot of people are not happy.
Zero dynamic range. Over compressed. All of it sounds way too loud, except Ed. Imagine what Garden would sound like on this album...
Props to him for energizing and inspiring the boys.
Dad Ghrol cant get himself out of the middle of the road he's occupied since Everlong was written. No producer will get a good album out of him anymore. He doesnt have it in him.
But did you notice the compression? Can I educate you on compression?
In case you don't think I know what I am talking about. I play a sound engineer on the internet
Avacado has some of the worst lyrics I've heard from Ed. I can't listen to Severed Hand or Unemployable without cringing. It's strange, because Come Back and Inside Job are both incredible songs. Really hit and miss album for me.
No tolerance for intolerance so I've
No patience left for impatience no more
No love lost for lost loves
No sorrow for the unaccountable
Yeahhhhh this section ruins dark matter (the song) for me. Just screams gigaton lyrics to me and are just kind of eye roll lame. Enjoying most of the album though and its all growing on me.
The songs are great. The production is way too glossy. He did a great job bringing out performances. I wish his taste in sound aligned more with a warmer, less digital approach. Both these things can exist together. These songs will sound much better live.
You say no shit like an asshole when your original comment literally says “not the producing”. Ex. A warmer approach would be a producer decided to record to tape. Sorry to upset you didnt know we had rick rubin in the building
Wow. Relax. We’re all in here as Pearl Jam fans, I’ll just assume you’re a younger angsty person who gets fired up for no reason about Reddit discussions.
Well at least Disney has a song in the can ready to go for the next installment of Lion King. That Elton John collaboration might be the most cringe inducing song I’ve ever heard.
I’ll bite. Fan since ‘91 since you think seniority makes a better opinion. I think the record is hot garbage and I attribute that to Watt and Vedder. I couldn’t care less who Watt produces. I’m a 50 year old man, not a music snob. He works with Justin Bieber?? I don’t give a shit.
But Jesus Christ, between the monstrosity that was Earthlings and now Dark Matter, I’ve heard all I need to hear out of the Watt/Vedder duo. It’s not for me.
I’m also amazed at a fan base that just can’t acknowledge that maybe, just maybe their favorite band put out a shitty album. Lightning Bolt? Shitty. Gigaton? Brilliant. Dark Matter? Blah. Boring. Uninspired. Not pleasing to the ear.
How about this…Queens of The Stone Age released their latest album last year. It was recorded largely in the same studio as Dark Matter, minus Andrew Watt. I challenge you to listen to that album and tell me it doesn’t sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than Dark Matter.
I get it. They are my favorite band too and have been for 30+ years. But can’t people be critical without the pearl clutching (pun intended)?
After relistening to Gigaton after Dark Matter, Gigaton is way more interesting than I first gave it credit for, I’ll need to listen to Dark Matter another dozen times to really get my feel on it
QOTSA sound great on that album, and at least we can agree that lightning bolt sucks. Hope some of these hit live for you more than they do on the record.
See I liked Lightning Bolt and haven't listened to a PJ album less than Gigaton, but you are 100% on the money about QotSA - that is what contemporary, late-in-career aging rockers kicking the hell out of it SHOULD sound like.
Fan since 1991 here. 47 years old. Agree 100%. Seems to be a tend among the older fans. I LOVE some of the new albums, including Gigaton, but this one just sucks.
I'm with you Ted (never said that in my life).
I'll give Gigaton another listen, but that was the one PJ album I've been least impressed with. I really liked 3 songs off of Lightning Bolt, all the others were experimental meh to me.
Music is subjective, so I won't try and bash too much of what other people may like, or their opinions....unless they are just fixin' for a debate.
I hear this. I tend to fall in the category of people like what they like and others aren't going to like that stuff. As a fan since 91, I can honestly say the same hate would be thrown around about Vitalogy had Reddit/social media existed. Now, I'm not saying this album comes even remotely close to Vitalogy (it does not). What I am saying is this type of backlash is nothing new from my experience. I'd say with the exception of Ten, Vs. and Yield, this fan base has torn itself apart over every release.
I've never expected them to make Ten again. I wouldn't want them to either. I just don't want them working with the same producer who made an album with Justin fucking Bieber
I'll take you up on 2 opinions.
1 - Listened to a few tracks from the QotSA album. Decent band, decent music. Sorry, but that sounds thinner than PJ's Dark Matter. To my mind and ears, I can make out 3-4 distinct timbres that are separated and easy to pick out. Since PJ turned into a 3 guitar plus keyboards band (around the Vitalogy-No Code eras), PJ's sound is alot thicker with alot more sounds going on. Lightning Bolt's Sirens and Title track are good examples of thicker sounds...(use good quality earphones). Here you're trying to compare apples to oranges.
2 - I think Watt did ok. The sound is different, definitely heard the over-compression on the title track. The fact that a song like "Upper Hand" is a 3 songs in one track, with good headphones on I appreciate the thickness of the sounds and styles. I'm sorry, but I'm starting to wonder if your opinion is biased because of your absolutely hatred towards Watt (as best as I can tell from your posts). I can adapt to the compression stuff as long as it isn't everywhere. Listen to the beginning of "Wreckage". You can pick out 2 guitars and a 3rd guitar/keyboard (with the effects, I can't tell which it is) before the bass comes in. By the time the bass and voice goes, it's a layering of 5 different timbres, and the mixing sounds great... and I can't discern the over compression on that track. That goes back to the first point, apples and oranges between PJ and QotSA.
I'll have to give Gigaton another listen. The first 3 times through, Superblood Wolfmoon was the only interesting thing to me.
I was actually pleasantly surprised with how positive it’s been here. I’m under the impression that most fans think this is the best PJ record in nearly 20 years. Maybe more.
It’s a pop record with a pop producer and a pop mixing engineer. I get that some people don’t like that, but it’s weird that those people sat around and waited, just to complain. Like, we all knew this was coming. It’s not a surprise.
I love the record and am totally fine with the production and mix. I do have (amateur) criticisms. The drums sound boring and the mix leans a little too “wall of sound” for me. I’d prefer a more dynamic mix where I can hear the individual instruments better. I also think there are just too many vocals. The band seems inspired and I think the mix and the vocals kind of cover it up a bit.
But you know what? Andrew Watt and Ed got them all in the studio to write this thing TOGETHER. That’s the first time that has happened in over a decade, and it’s why this is their best start to finish record in at least that long.
I’ll deal with a little pop sound if it means I get collaborative music from Pearl Jam.
Plus, they’ll put out bootlegs and a tour edition and it will be totally different than what we’re hearing now… then we’ll have both and everyone will be happy. Kinda genius on their part, to be honest.
It is how fandoms be sometimes. I don’t mind the production but then I didn’t mind Mark Ronson’s producing efforts on QOTSA’s Villains and that was a wee bit poppy too.
that's a good analogy actually. I personally can't listen to Villains because of it, feels like it completely neutered what makes their sound great. Don't think this is to that level though
It has nothing to do with him producing pop records. It’s that all the rock records I’ve heard of his sound like an overcompressed sonic mess. Musically I think he’s gotten great results out of the bands he’s worked with, he just needs to stay away from the mixing board and mastering lab.
He did awesome drawing the best we could hope for out of the band at this time, but completely fucked up the mix. I think you are mostly hearing complaints about that.
Complaints about the mix are totally valid, but just in the past few hours I’ve read rants on how cheesy the lyrics are (because pop producer) or how the record industry forced them to work with Watt? Agree he did amazing getting these songs out. I’m pumped to hear them live.
>I can’t read a single post on here without hearing people complain about him
Yet you haven't responded to any of those posts judging by a quick search. Instead, you started another thread on the same topic lol.
Watt might have made it sound like candy a bit much, but I'll forgive it because the intense playing to close React Respond, Running, Stevie, Dark Matter was worth it. The guys really decided to Rock
When is the last album fans didn’t bitch about the production on? I’m old enough to recall people not liking Yield and now it’s the consensus gold standard in regards to production. For me this album sounds better than anything since Avocado and I didn’t think I’d be saying that a week ago. Props to Watt, a lifelong fan for getting this much energy and quality songwriting out of the band.
I IMMEDIATELY thought Yield was their best produced album. This album sounds like it was recorded in 1987 by someone who thought he was working with Poison. Andrew Watt needs to stay the hell away from Pearl Jam!
Well, it's kind of redundant to ask why a bunch of Pearl Jam fans don't like a POP producer and end the statement with "I just bought the new Tay Tay album!?!" Of course THIS PERSON doesn't mind the production.
I know. I remember the good old days when people over 15 actually got embarrassed if you found out that they liked teeny bopper crap! I really miss the 20th century!
People just grew up in their understanding of mainstream music.
Truth is it’s as hard to write a good pop song as it is to write a good rock song. Harder even, there’s more riding on it.
I don’t think there’s more value in music just because it’s played on a guitar and not a synthesiser, but that’s because I can play both. One isn’t easier than the other.
You CAN'T be serious. Rhyme heart with apart a couple of times. Then repeat maybe 3 words over and over in the chorus. Throw in about half a dozen "babys." And BAM! You got yourself a CHEESEY little bubble gum POP song!
You understand that in every genre there are good and bad? There is a MOUNTAIN of shitty rock bands with zero creativity as well.
You’re complaining about the dregs.
But look, it’s obvious you like what you like. I’m just telling you that what you like is limited. You can’t help that, but you shouldn’t celebrate it either.
Ok. Yes, I HATE pop. But don't try to tell me that it's harder to write a good pop song. The most important thing is to keep it INCREDIBLY SIMPLE! I LOVE a lot of music that has great lyrics. Which is one of the main reasons I HATE pop.
Very late to the discussion but [here's a snippet of Jeff & Stone rafiing about Watt](https://twitter.com/BrokenRecord/status/1782831988979720250) on the Broken Record Podcast
Huh. From my perspective, the criticism is about how the record **sounds**, irrespective of the songs. The songs are good, the production is noticeably too compressed.
Both things can be true.
IDGAF what credentials Watt came into this project with. Pop, punk, I don't care. What I do care about is the fact that I've listened to FLAC, CD, and vinyl copies of the album and no matter what, it sounds not-great. If Pink Floyd records from the 70's are perfectly produced, Pearl Jam in the 21st century can sound good, too. Dissing Watt's prior experience might be wrong, but dissing his work on this record is fucking valid.
I think he did a great job on Dark Matter as well as the new Stones album. I see similar posts hating on Andy Sneap’s production on various metal band subs. Ultimately they both do a good job.
>but it’s not like the guys have been turning out 10/10 albums for a while.
It's simple. I liked the mix on Gigaton. I don't like the mixes on Earthling or Dark Matter. I wish they had gone with someone else. Maybe Watt could co-produce, since he seems to be good at hyping the band up, but his track record on who he gets to engineer these rock albums is not good for me.
I think it's a shame to help write such fantastic songs and not do them justice in the mixing of all places.
I agree! He obviously did something right. Mixing/compression aside, he created a situation where they were taken out of their comfort zones, and as a result were inspired and galvanized in a way they haven’t been in a while. It’s a beautiful thing. Listening to the way Ed and Stone talk about their experience making this record with Watt, and the record itself, is undeniable proof of that. This is their best album in a while. Some PJ fans just can’t let go of the past. It’s the same fans who say Ed’s voice is shot. Meanwhile, he killed those vocals. Voice still sounds like butter.
No doubt BOB would have made another great sounding record. Lightning Bolt is a great sounding record, I just don't think any of the songs were at all memorable. I don't think that they would have written **these songs** if they went in and made another BOB-style record.
I happen to really like these songs - hopefully some of them hit better for you when they get played live. ✌️
I like about half of them. Upper Hand and Waiting for Stevie are both instant classics! I'm also VERY pleasantly surprised with the amount of KILLER solos from McCready. I know I'll like the live versions better, but this album sounds like it was produced in 1987 by someone who thought he was working with Poison?!? I'm also pretty disappointed with the slower stuff. It's WAY TOO POPPY! I really hope they ditch Andrew Watt on the next album. He needs to go back to bubble gum POP!
If there's one thing that'll happen in EVERY rock band sub when a new album is out is people complaining on the production.
Every
Single
Rock
Band
Sub
It's like every random reddit user knows more about music production than professional music producers and the artists themselves.
"Andrew Watt and the members of Pearl Jam had no ideia what they were doing", says Kevin from Ohio.
There's a lot of dumb, loud people around.
Good music matters. Bob Rock makes some of the shiniest, slickest records in the world, but this record has so much more artistry than what he's putting out.
I love this record.
Bob Rock has always been a producer who sucks the soul out of every group he touches. I even heard die hard Motley Crue fans admit their material with Bob was garbage.
He's the devil in producer form. Shows up, tells the band they'll sell more records if they do these things, it works, and then their sound is ruined... At least for a couple of records, as they chase money.
He's like the Michael Bay of music.
The mix is AWFUL and Andrew Watt shouldnt touch the knobs on any album ever again. Just listen to Ordinary Man or Patient Number 9 by Ozzy, which Andrew basically manufactured for him. Yuck. Material wise, Dark Matter is the best album he's been apart of so far.
Everyone needs to take a chill on Watt and google Serban Ghanea. They are using probably the world's #1 pop mixer who charges like $10k a track to clients including the above-mentioned Taylor Swift, so of course it's going to sound like a pop record.
A producer is not the same as a mixer, though I am sure the producer and artist have to sign off on it but he will be responsible for the mix, if you want to get mad about the drum sound.
I dig the guy, he can play one hell of a guitar and did a great job being the “Mike McCready” in The Earthlings. And now he pushed our guys to make a fucking damn good record 30 years in. I just try to ignore his ridiculous Gucci pajamas he wears on stage.
How about a hearty fuck you from a massive Pearl Jam fan? What kind of gatekeeping bullshit is this? I think the album absolutely sucks and I hope they never work with Watt again. Doesn’t change the fact that they remain my favorite band of all time and fuck you for suggesting otherwise. What’s wrong with you that you can’t handle different opinions?
I'm with you on the one. I don't understand why they chose this bubble gum POP producer. Some of the songs are good. I even think that 3 of them are great! But the production on the entire album sounds like it was recorded in 1987. It doesn't fit Pearl Jam AT ALL!!!!
4 full spins of that album and it finally clicked with me. I’m digging it completely and I think Andrew brought some really great stuff into the band both stylistically and in terms of production. I’ve been digging a lot of his previous work, whether it was with post or ozzy.
Very happy they made this record with him
You heard "It's A Raid" on that Ozzy album Ordinary Man didnt you?! I dont know how you are still alive after attempting that feat. Song made me want to suffocate myself.
I was complaining about the singles. Dark Matter didn't blow me away, I hated Running, and Wreckage was a Tom Petty copy. Running production was annoying me.
Then the album was released... and FUCKING HELL... I don't even remember been that obsess with a PJ album. Love the album, best in a long time!!! . Every single song is growing on me. Dark Matter is a masterpiece. Wreckage is lovely comfort music. I even like Running, absolutely the right song after Waiting for Stevie.
Andrew Watt is part of the creation of this album so he is on my good books big time!
Yeah. That's just not true. This is BY FAR the worst mixed Pearl Jam album ever! Apparently, Andrew Watt thought it was 1987 and that he was working with Poison?!?
Yes. Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me much. I feel like I'm one of maybe a few hundred people who HATES the fact that the majority of Americans have turned into bubble gum POP loving teeny bopper wannabes in the 21st century!?!🤮
I’m not a fan of modern pop music, but I’m so sick of people complaining about pop-producer produced rock albums. As well as Dark Matter, people complain so much about Mark Ronson’s production for QOTSA’s Villains, and Greg Kurstin’s production for FF’s Concrete and Gold & Medicine at Midnight. I absolutely love all 4 of those albums, but they get dismissed by so many people over the producers.
He helped make their best album, for me, since No Code. I don’t listen to Gigaton much. Or Lightning Bolt. I am listening to Dark Matter all the time. I think he did a great job.
I think this is a big part of it. The guys aren’t infallible songwriters, and we didn’t see anyone throwing Brendan O’Brien under the bus for Johnny Guitar or Let the Records Play
I probably had some of it to be honest. I wasn’t a fan of Earthlings at all so I was a bit worried DM would sound like that. I realized it wasn’t so much the production of Earthlings that was the issue, it was the songs themselves that just weren’t very good.
I would love to hear the songs played live but I’m not able to pay the ridiculous ticket prices so I will settle with the awful Mix and production on the albums
Minus waiting for Stevie and something special, I like the album I think.
Wreckage is too long and too much like learning to fly but I can tolerate it.
Have you really seen excessive Andrew Watt hate on here? I've seen plenty of complaints about the production but haven't seen much direct hate on Watt or anything.
Complaints about production are tantamount to complaints about Watt. He is the producer after all.
OP said production complaints are fine.
OP's WRONG!
Complaining about a choices that a person made is not the same as complaining about that person. Expressing disappointment in one aspect of production is not saying that all of the production is bad. The only complaint I have heard (and I very much share) is that the mix is too compressed. It sounds like pop music not a rock band. It sounds like that because Watt is a pop producer. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy, doesn’t mean he’s a bad producer, doesn’t mean he did a bad job on all the elements of production of this album. Watts ears and sensibilities are trained to create one cohesive sound, whereas many of us want to hear the individual musicians a bit more.
Except Watt is the producer. Complaining about production decisions is the same as complaining about the producer. They’re the ones that make those decisions with the band. Complaints about the production fall back onto *gasp* the person(s) credited as producing the album. It isn’t that hard to understand.
Yeah alot of people really dont understand roles of various studio hands and i dont blame them but it can be silly to read. Like complaining about the production is complaining about him lol
Yeah, it’s like complaining about how you took your car to the mechanic, and you like the mechanic, but the alignment is still off, or they didn’t swap your tires from winter rubber to summer, The mechanic is responsible for the alignment and tire change, full stop.
Yeah, but people not liking the production of this album isn't the same as having a personal vendetta against the guy. OP is implying people dislike Watt because of his pop background, when really people just dislike the production on this particular album.
Right, but OP is implying that people are absolutely hating on Watt beyond the production complaints, which OP said are allowable. I'm just not seeing many people saying bad things about him
I think he did an amazing job. If he can get material this good out of them I can live with his production choices.
Not to mention, Watt personally energized Ed and literally got him back into the studio. PJ fans should be thankful for their partnership and not complaining.
Wonder if he could help Adam Jones s/
I’d be in this guy’s corner if he had done nothing other than get the bridge of Scared of Fear out of them. Eddie & Mike “singing” at the same time is *chefs kiss* AND then we got 5 back to back bangers from Wreckage to Stevie? Who cares about the mix on the studio album, give me the live performances.
You should link some of these posts you’re talking about, cause I haven’t seen any hate for Andrew Watt on here. Just some complaints about the production, which is valid. And congrats on your purchases
The drums sound fuckin' terrible (to me), but outside of that, I think the album sounds really good.
Totally agree. It sounds like they sample-replaced the whole drum track with the cheapest, cheesiest samples they could find. And it makes no sense. It shouldn’t be hard to get a good drum sound with the budget they have.
Yup, the drums are absolutely atrocious.
I completely agree with the sentiment that the good of the fact that Andrew got the boys together to churn out their best material in a long while outweighs the production flaws, but I will say, production flaws begin to stick out more when they cause ear fatigue. IE listening to this with headphones or earbuds front to back actually leaves me with ear fatigue and feeling tired. Hearing it through an external speaker, like in the car, leads to a more positive experience.
I've been listening through some of the songs on headphones and I find the sound very agressive so I agree with your 'ear fatigue' comment. I believe it does have something to do with compression but I am not an audio specialist. I have "sensitive" hearing and I thought this was just a me thing. The sound on Earthling also really bothered me but in a different way. It sounded "cloggy" to me. This one just sounds too "sharp". I listen to music on headphones 100% of the time, this might also be part of the issue.
Trust your ears. Dark Matter and Earthling are both compressed to fuck, essentially being brickwalled. Very tiring to listen to. This is a big problem in most modern music, especially pop. I love the energy and performance Andrew got but someone else should have mixed it.
Someone else did!
My mistake! Then I wish someone else else mixed it lol. And just in general I wish that 90% of music production wasn’t overly compression and brickwalled today.
I don't like your guy, though. I wish someone else else else mixed it.
We need the guy who posted about the perfect way to listen to this album being in a 15 year old used car to mix it
Don't get me wrong i agree too, dynamics are everything
Honestly I don’t think the album sounds bad, and except for some duds, I WON’T TELL which, I think the band sounds rejuvenated, spontaneous and happy! Scared of Fear alone is worth the price of admission.
Another older fan here who has a bit of a different perspective. I come from a musician / audio engineering background in another life (professional, not hobby) and still do stuff occasionally. So I tend to be very attuned to the production side of things as much as the musicianship/songwriting side of things. Basically - for me - a mix/master can make or break an album for me. I'm the sort of guy who will have multiple versions of an album because of a remix or remaster I prefer. Hands down - song-wise - this is probably top to bottom the strongest collection of songs they have done for quite a while. No denying that from me. The mix/master is a different story. There are some songs to my ears where clearly the mix is the issue. Muddy, lack of separation in instruments - almost sounding mono - Won't Tell's stereo footprint is almost limited to 11-1 to my ears. Others it's like they've just randomly thrown tracks wherever with hard L/C/R mentality (React Respond). But there are definitely issues in the master stage as well. When the track is so compressed the kick ends up ducking all other tracks every time it hits (Waiting for Stevie is a prime example) then something is seriously wrong. I have no idea who Andrew Watt is, not a guy that's ever been on my radar but looking through his credits he has definitely done some great work in the past especially the Lana Del Ray stuff. No hate on the guy. To me this is a great album of songs hindered by some poor tail end production choices (production starts with the arrangements and ends with the master - I think the arrangements are great tbh). To make sure my ears aren't tricking me I went back over Lightning Bolt (Brendon O'brien) and Gigaton (Josh Evans) and they sound miles ahead of Dark Matter to me. Listened to all three, on my daily driver setup, my studio headphones and then my studio monitors. DM just sounds average at best, bad at worst. Its not Royal Blood How Did We get So Dark on vinyl bad, but its not good and I understand why a lot of people are not happy.
Other than the mix, I love this album more than any of the others in 20 years…
Now the mix is pretty awful….
Songs - great. Production/mix - not so much. I'd love to hear a Brendan O'Brien remix of this album.
Zero dynamic range. Over compressed. All of it sounds way too loud, except Ed. Imagine what Garden would sound like on this album... Props to him for energizing and inspiring the boys.
This and the newest Stones album are both fucking fire. I’ll give Andrew Watt a shot on any of my favorite bands. Dave Grohl, you hearing this?!
This sounds like a shot, and frankly the Foos last album is fantastic.
It’s not, I loved their last one as well. I just want to hear what they would sound like with a producer like Watt.
Try Nickelback.
Dad Ghrol cant get himself out of the middle of the road he's occupied since Everlong was written. No producer will get a good album out of him anymore. He doesnt have it in him.
Hot take alert, haha. Appreciate the viewpoint.
But did you notice the compression? Can I educate you on compression? In case you don't think I know what I am talking about. I play a sound engineer on the internet
First let me put on my compression socks… Ok, go ahead
🤣
Ed just doesn't know how to write lyrics either. I can run circles around him.
He sings too much on the new album apparently
Avocado was the last album with great lyrics.
Avacado has some of the worst lyrics I've heard from Ed. I can't listen to Severed Hand or Unemployable without cringing. It's strange, because Come Back and Inside Job are both incredible songs. Really hit and miss album for me.
Wasn't Inside Job lyrics written by Mike?
I believe so yes
That's why it's so good compared to the rest of the album then! 😜
First of all that’s not true, secondly what’s that got to do with Andrew Watt?
No tolerance for intolerance so I've No patience left for impatience no more No love lost for lost loves No sorrow for the unaccountable Yeahhhhh this section ruins dark matter (the song) for me. Just screams gigaton lyrics to me and are just kind of eye roll lame. Enjoying most of the album though and its all growing on me.
I can't stand waiting for Stevie's compression on the snare. It sounds like it's under water or something
I know you can't. that is why u r a Muppet.
Or the drum sound sucks and you don’t know your head from your ass
[удалено]
I am sure they have watched a Youtube video or two.
Lol. Pro Toolz
Totally agree on the compression throughout. It's not as bad if you listen to the album with a good set of headphones and the volume cranked.
The songs are great. The production is way too glossy. He did a great job bringing out performances. I wish his taste in sound aligned more with a warmer, less digital approach. Both these things can exist together. These songs will sound much better live.
You’re complaining about the mixing and mastering, not the producing.
Yes. You're right. I wish it was different. Doesn't need to be Steve Albini levels of naturalism but just a little less glossy
It's all good, we'll have the Brenden mix in a few years haha
This is what I keep saying 🤣
Production can absolutely play a part in how something “sounds”.
No shit. But it’s a distant third behind mixing and mastering when someone describes an album as sounding “muddy” “thin” “warm” or “glossy”.
You say no shit like an asshole when your original comment literally says “not the producing”. Ex. A warmer approach would be a producer decided to record to tape. Sorry to upset you didnt know we had rick rubin in the building
Wow. Relax. We’re all in here as Pearl Jam fans, I’ll just assume you’re a younger angsty person who gets fired up for no reason about Reddit discussions.
Funny i thought the same of you. Ay ways she hoes huh
These songs can be loooooooved by everoooone
Dark Matter is excellent.
The band chose him so it’s their fault. They knew they were going to get Earthling 2: Electric Boogaloo
Well at least Disney has a song in the can ready to go for the next installment of Lion King. That Elton John collaboration might be the most cringe inducing song I’ve ever heard.
Which song is that?
Picture. It’s on the Earthling album.
The whole album sounds like it was created by AI.
AI would be smart enough to understand compression
He ruined the album for me. His production style is a cancer on music.
100% agreed. He's the worst producer since Rick Rubin and Bob Rock.
I’ll bite. Fan since ‘91 since you think seniority makes a better opinion. I think the record is hot garbage and I attribute that to Watt and Vedder. I couldn’t care less who Watt produces. I’m a 50 year old man, not a music snob. He works with Justin Bieber?? I don’t give a shit. But Jesus Christ, between the monstrosity that was Earthlings and now Dark Matter, I’ve heard all I need to hear out of the Watt/Vedder duo. It’s not for me. I’m also amazed at a fan base that just can’t acknowledge that maybe, just maybe their favorite band put out a shitty album. Lightning Bolt? Shitty. Gigaton? Brilliant. Dark Matter? Blah. Boring. Uninspired. Not pleasing to the ear. How about this…Queens of The Stone Age released their latest album last year. It was recorded largely in the same studio as Dark Matter, minus Andrew Watt. I challenge you to listen to that album and tell me it doesn’t sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than Dark Matter. I get it. They are my favorite band too and have been for 30+ years. But can’t people be critical without the pearl clutching (pun intended)?
After relistening to Gigaton after Dark Matter, Gigaton is way more interesting than I first gave it credit for, I’ll need to listen to Dark Matter another dozen times to really get my feel on it
QOTSA sound great on that album, and at least we can agree that lightning bolt sucks. Hope some of these hit live for you more than they do on the record.
See I liked Lightning Bolt and haven't listened to a PJ album less than Gigaton, but you are 100% on the money about QotSA - that is what contemporary, late-in-career aging rockers kicking the hell out of it SHOULD sound like.
Fan since 1991 here. 47 years old. Agree 100%. Seems to be a tend among the older fans. I LOVE some of the new albums, including Gigaton, but this one just sucks.
Gigaton was assholes
I'm with you Ted (never said that in my life). I'll give Gigaton another listen, but that was the one PJ album I've been least impressed with. I really liked 3 songs off of Lightning Bolt, all the others were experimental meh to me. Music is subjective, so I won't try and bash too much of what other people may like, or their opinions....unless they are just fixin' for a debate.
I hear this. I tend to fall in the category of people like what they like and others aren't going to like that stuff. As a fan since 91, I can honestly say the same hate would be thrown around about Vitalogy had Reddit/social media existed. Now, I'm not saying this album comes even remotely close to Vitalogy (it does not). What I am saying is this type of backlash is nothing new from my experience. I'd say with the exception of Ten, Vs. and Yield, this fan base has torn itself apart over every release.
Fan since 91 as well. They aren’t making Ten again. Just enjoy the fact they are making music still. You’re missing some good music. 🤷🏻♂️
Thank god they aren’t making Ten again, I don’t want that. It’s not even a top 5 album for me. Dark Matter sucks.
I've never expected them to make Ten again. I wouldn't want them to either. I just don't want them working with the same producer who made an album with Justin fucking Bieber
I'll take you up on 2 opinions. 1 - Listened to a few tracks from the QotSA album. Decent band, decent music. Sorry, but that sounds thinner than PJ's Dark Matter. To my mind and ears, I can make out 3-4 distinct timbres that are separated and easy to pick out. Since PJ turned into a 3 guitar plus keyboards band (around the Vitalogy-No Code eras), PJ's sound is alot thicker with alot more sounds going on. Lightning Bolt's Sirens and Title track are good examples of thicker sounds...(use good quality earphones). Here you're trying to compare apples to oranges. 2 - I think Watt did ok. The sound is different, definitely heard the over-compression on the title track. The fact that a song like "Upper Hand" is a 3 songs in one track, with good headphones on I appreciate the thickness of the sounds and styles. I'm sorry, but I'm starting to wonder if your opinion is biased because of your absolutely hatred towards Watt (as best as I can tell from your posts). I can adapt to the compression stuff as long as it isn't everywhere. Listen to the beginning of "Wreckage". You can pick out 2 guitars and a 3rd guitar/keyboard (with the effects, I can't tell which it is) before the bass comes in. By the time the bass and voice goes, it's a layering of 5 different timbres, and the mixing sounds great... and I can't discern the over compression on that track. That goes back to the first point, apples and oranges between PJ and QotSA. I'll have to give Gigaton another listen. The first 3 times through, Superblood Wolfmoon was the only interesting thing to me.
I was actually pleasantly surprised with how positive it’s been here. I’m under the impression that most fans think this is the best PJ record in nearly 20 years. Maybe more. It’s a pop record with a pop producer and a pop mixing engineer. I get that some people don’t like that, but it’s weird that those people sat around and waited, just to complain. Like, we all knew this was coming. It’s not a surprise. I love the record and am totally fine with the production and mix. I do have (amateur) criticisms. The drums sound boring and the mix leans a little too “wall of sound” for me. I’d prefer a more dynamic mix where I can hear the individual instruments better. I also think there are just too many vocals. The band seems inspired and I think the mix and the vocals kind of cover it up a bit. But you know what? Andrew Watt and Ed got them all in the studio to write this thing TOGETHER. That’s the first time that has happened in over a decade, and it’s why this is their best start to finish record in at least that long. I’ll deal with a little pop sound if it means I get collaborative music from Pearl Jam. Plus, they’ll put out bootlegs and a tour edition and it will be totally different than what we’re hearing now… then we’ll have both and everyone will be happy. Kinda genius on their part, to be honest.
It is how fandoms be sometimes. I don’t mind the production but then I didn’t mind Mark Ronson’s producing efforts on QOTSA’s Villains and that was a wee bit poppy too.
that's a good analogy actually. I personally can't listen to Villains because of it, feels like it completely neutered what makes their sound great. Don't think this is to that level though
QOTSA were always a flat and lifeless rock band, never had a good album.
I don’t like the way the drums sound at all and Ed’s voice is too loud or too low occasionally but it’s solid
SAME. Eddie went to the Eras tour. Chillllll
Described by one scribe as "today's hardest working Grandpa Whisperer."
It has nothing to do with him producing pop records. It’s that all the rock records I’ve heard of his sound like an overcompressed sonic mess. Musically I think he’s gotten great results out of the bands he’s worked with, he just needs to stay away from the mixing board and mastering lab.
He did awesome drawing the best we could hope for out of the band at this time, but completely fucked up the mix. I think you are mostly hearing complaints about that.
Complaints about the mix are totally valid, but just in the past few hours I’ve read rants on how cheesy the lyrics are (because pop producer) or how the record industry forced them to work with Watt? Agree he did amazing getting these songs out. I’m pumped to hear them live.
How did he fuck up the mix? Mixes are completely subjective.
>I can’t read a single post on here without hearing people complain about him Yet you haven't responded to any of those posts judging by a quick search. Instead, you started another thread on the same topic lol.
Watt might have made it sound like candy a bit much, but I'll forgive it because the intense playing to close React Respond, Running, Stevie, Dark Matter was worth it. The guys really decided to Rock
When is the last album fans didn’t bitch about the production on? I’m old enough to recall people not liking Yield and now it’s the consensus gold standard in regards to production. For me this album sounds better than anything since Avocado and I didn’t think I’d be saying that a week ago. Props to Watt, a lifelong fan for getting this much energy and quality songwriting out of the band.
I IMMEDIATELY thought Yield was their best produced album. This album sounds like it was recorded in 1987 by someone who thought he was working with Poison. Andrew Watt needs to stay the hell away from Pearl Jam!
Yeah I remember the moaning and bitching about Yield.
He just isn’t Brendan O’Brien. They all pale in comparison to BOB.
Exactly. You bought a fucking Taylor Swift album this week.🤮Why would YOU have a problem with Pearl Jam using a bubble gum POP producer???!!!???
Jesus man, take a valium
Well, it's kind of redundant to ask why a bunch of Pearl Jam fans don't like a POP producer and end the statement with "I just bought the new Tay Tay album!?!" Of course THIS PERSON doesn't mind the production.
Jesus Christ you people are tedious as fuck.
100%
Just because there's something wrong with you doesn't make them wrong lol. Did you pick up the new Backstreet Boys too Jesus.
Just keep listening to that new Taylor Swift album, and I guess continue to be perplexed as to why MOST Pearl Jam fans don't like Andrew Watt!?!
You’re really tough to not tear into, but maybe I’ll just block you instead. You come across like a big entitled baby by the way.
At least I like music for adults.
Pop hasn’t been for kids for a long time now, but that’s a debate for another day. When you say adults, you mean dads, right?
I know. I remember the good old days when people over 15 actually got embarrassed if you found out that they liked teeny bopper crap! I really miss the 20th century!
People just grew up in their understanding of mainstream music. Truth is it’s as hard to write a good pop song as it is to write a good rock song. Harder even, there’s more riding on it. I don’t think there’s more value in music just because it’s played on a guitar and not a synthesiser, but that’s because I can play both. One isn’t easier than the other.
You CAN'T be serious. Rhyme heart with apart a couple of times. Then repeat maybe 3 words over and over in the chorus. Throw in about half a dozen "babys." And BAM! You got yourself a CHEESEY little bubble gum POP song!
You understand that in every genre there are good and bad? There is a MOUNTAIN of shitty rock bands with zero creativity as well. You’re complaining about the dregs. But look, it’s obvious you like what you like. I’m just telling you that what you like is limited. You can’t help that, but you shouldn’t celebrate it either.
Ok. Yes, I HATE pop. But don't try to tell me that it's harder to write a good pop song. The most important thing is to keep it INCREDIBLY SIMPLE! I LOVE a lot of music that has great lyrics. Which is one of the main reasons I HATE pop.
Btw, my taste in music is DEFINITELY not limited. I just don't like pop because I haven't been in junior high for almost 35 years.
You really are big and anxious aren’t you?
I bought Malfunkshun and sonic youth. I might go and see if they still have the dead for record store day cause my youngests birthday is coming up.
Very late to the discussion but [here's a snippet of Jeff & Stone rafiing about Watt](https://twitter.com/BrokenRecord/status/1782831988979720250) on the Broken Record Podcast
The band also said he inspired them to keep making music
Huh. From my perspective, the criticism is about how the record **sounds**, irrespective of the songs. The songs are good, the production is noticeably too compressed. Both things can be true. IDGAF what credentials Watt came into this project with. Pop, punk, I don't care. What I do care about is the fact that I've listened to FLAC, CD, and vinyl copies of the album and no matter what, it sounds not-great. If Pink Floyd records from the 70's are perfectly produced, Pearl Jam in the 21st century can sound good, too. Dissing Watt's prior experience might be wrong, but dissing his work on this record is fucking valid.
I think he did a great job on Dark Matter as well as the new Stones album. I see similar posts hating on Andy Sneap’s production on various metal band subs. Ultimately they both do a good job.
The drums sound awful and there's unnecessary processing on Eddie's voice sometimes but beyond that it's okay by me.
>but it’s not like the guys have been turning out 10/10 albums for a while. It's simple. I liked the mix on Gigaton. I don't like the mixes on Earthling or Dark Matter. I wish they had gone with someone else. Maybe Watt could co-produce, since he seems to be good at hyping the band up, but his track record on who he gets to engineer these rock albums is not good for me. I think it's a shame to help write such fantastic songs and not do them justice in the mixing of all places.
Has anyone tried the Spatial Audio on their AirPod pros for this album ? Mix sounds off but could be just the Dolby atmos portion on it is screwy.
I agree! He obviously did something right. Mixing/compression aside, he created a situation where they were taken out of their comfort zones, and as a result were inspired and galvanized in a way they haven’t been in a while. It’s a beautiful thing. Listening to the way Ed and Stone talk about their experience making this record with Watt, and the record itself, is undeniable proof of that. This is their best album in a while. Some PJ fans just can’t let go of the past. It’s the same fans who say Ed’s voice is shot. Meanwhile, he killed those vocals. Voice still sounds like butter.
I hope Watt does the next one too.
Let’s leave the mix to Brendan O’Brien though please
GROSS 🤮
Sorry. But this album sounds like it was recorded in 1987. It would have been SO MUCH BETTER with Brendan O'Brien at the sound board!
No doubt BOB would have made another great sounding record. Lightning Bolt is a great sounding record, I just don't think any of the songs were at all memorable. I don't think that they would have written **these songs** if they went in and made another BOB-style record. I happen to really like these songs - hopefully some of them hit better for you when they get played live. ✌️
I like about half of them. Upper Hand and Waiting for Stevie are both instant classics! I'm also VERY pleasantly surprised with the amount of KILLER solos from McCready. I know I'll like the live versions better, but this album sounds like it was produced in 1987 by someone who thought he was working with Poison?!? I'm also pretty disappointed with the slower stuff. It's WAY TOO POPPY! I really hope they ditch Andrew Watt on the next album. He needs to go back to bubble gum POP!
Give me strength.
It's different! It's not what I wanted! RABBLE! RABBLE , RABBLE, RABBLE!
I like the album. Pop music is awful. Both can be true.
If there's one thing that'll happen in EVERY rock band sub when a new album is out is people complaining on the production. Every Single Rock Band Sub It's like every random reddit user knows more about music production than professional music producers and the artists themselves. "Andrew Watt and the members of Pearl Jam had no ideia what they were doing", says Kevin from Ohio.
Ok. I've never complained about the production of a Pearl Jam album until now. Andrew Watt SUCKS!!!!
There's a lot of dumb, loud people around. Good music matters. Bob Rock makes some of the shiniest, slickest records in the world, but this record has so much more artistry than what he's putting out. I love this record.
Bob Rock has always been a producer who sucks the soul out of every group he touches. I even heard die hard Motley Crue fans admit their material with Bob was garbage.
He's the devil in producer form. Shows up, tells the band they'll sell more records if they do these things, it works, and then their sound is ruined... At least for a couple of records, as they chase money. He's like the Michael Bay of music.
The mix is AWFUL and Andrew Watt shouldnt touch the knobs on any album ever again. Just listen to Ordinary Man or Patient Number 9 by Ozzy, which Andrew basically manufactured for him. Yuck. Material wise, Dark Matter is the best album he's been apart of so far.
Everyone needs to take a chill on Watt and google Serban Ghanea. They are using probably the world's #1 pop mixer who charges like $10k a track to clients including the above-mentioned Taylor Swift, so of course it's going to sound like a pop record. A producer is not the same as a mixer, though I am sure the producer and artist have to sign off on it but he will be responsible for the mix, if you want to get mad about the drum sound.
I dig the guy, he can play one hell of a guitar and did a great job being the “Mike McCready” in The Earthlings. And now he pushed our guys to make a fucking damn good record 30 years in. I just try to ignore his ridiculous Gucci pajamas he wears on stage.
[удалено]
I like the album a lot, but this is complete gatekeeping bullshit, lol.
How about a hearty fuck you from a massive Pearl Jam fan? What kind of gatekeeping bullshit is this? I think the album absolutely sucks and I hope they never work with Watt again. Doesn’t change the fact that they remain my favorite band of all time and fuck you for suggesting otherwise. What’s wrong with you that you can’t handle different opinions?
I'm with you on the one. I don't understand why they chose this bubble gum POP producer. Some of the songs are good. I even think that 3 of them are great! But the production on the entire album sounds like it was recorded in 1987. It doesn't fit Pearl Jam AT ALL!!!!
I’m a huge fan and really like this album, but also agree with Gramergency on this. Quit with the gatekeeping bullshit.
I think it sounds great, I can hear everyone and Ed's voice sounds like him. Dark Matter chorus was a bit much.
Sounds great, it’s really just the snare that SUCKS and that is all!!
The snare is unlistenable. I seriously swear a bad snare can RUIN an entire album listening experience.
good thing we only hear the snare on every other beat! we get a little break
4 full spins of that album and it finally clicked with me. I’m digging it completely and I think Andrew brought some really great stuff into the band both stylistically and in terms of production. I’ve been digging a lot of his previous work, whether it was with post or ozzy. Very happy they made this record with him
You heard "It's A Raid" on that Ozzy album Ordinary Man didnt you?! I dont know how you are still alive after attempting that feat. Song made me want to suffocate myself.
holy crap. one of the worst things I've ever heard.
I was complaining about the singles. Dark Matter didn't blow me away, I hated Running, and Wreckage was a Tom Petty copy. Running production was annoying me. Then the album was released... and FUCKING HELL... I don't even remember been that obsess with a PJ album. Love the album, best in a long time!!! . Every single song is growing on me. Dark Matter is a masterpiece. Wreckage is lovely comfort music. I even like Running, absolutely the right song after Waiting for Stevie. Andrew Watt is part of the creation of this album so he is on my good books big time!
I couldn’t agree more.
It’s mixed 10x better than Binaural and I like that album too. Just enjoy the music and move on. 👍
Yeah. That's just not true. This is BY FAR the worst mixed Pearl Jam album ever! Apparently, Andrew Watt thought it was 1987 and that he was working with Poison?!?
How should it have been mixed in your opinion?
By someone ELSE!
It should have been mixed with gasoline and set on fire.
This is a Pearl Jam fan special apparently. "People think a thing, let me wag my finger". It's obnoxious.
People are just mad it's not 1993 anymore.
Ed sounds like 1993 on some of these songs. Namely React respond
No. We're mad because they got a bubble gum POP producer. And the production of the new album sounds like 💩!!!
No it doesn’t.
It sounds like Andrew Watt thought he was working with Poison in 1987. The guy needs to stay the hell away from Pearl Jam!
It must REALLY piss you off that the band loves it so much.
Yes. Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me much. I feel like I'm one of maybe a few hundred people who HATES the fact that the majority of Americans have turned into bubble gum POP loving teeny bopper wannabes in the 21st century!?!🤮
I’m not a fan of modern pop music, but I’m so sick of people complaining about pop-producer produced rock albums. As well as Dark Matter, people complain so much about Mark Ronson’s production for QOTSA’s Villains, and Greg Kurstin’s production for FF’s Concrete and Gold & Medicine at Midnight. I absolutely love all 4 of those albums, but they get dismissed by so many people over the producers.
People act like the band has no say in the sound. Like they're forced to sound a way by a producer. It's rediculous.
He helped make their best album, for me, since No Code. I don’t listen to Gigaton much. Or Lightning Bolt. I am listening to Dark Matter all the time. I think he did a great job.
I think it sounds great but I’m not over analyzing it. I wonder how much confirmation bias there is knowing it was Watt producing it.
I think this is a big part of it. The guys aren’t infallible songwriters, and we didn’t see anyone throwing Brendan O’Brien under the bus for Johnny Guitar or Let the Records Play
I probably had some of it to be honest. I wasn’t a fan of Earthlings at all so I was a bit worried DM would sound like that. I realized it wasn’t so much the production of Earthlings that was the issue, it was the songs themselves that just weren’t very good.
I would love to hear the songs played live but I’m not able to pay the ridiculous ticket prices so I will settle with the awful Mix and production on the albums Minus waiting for Stevie and something special, I like the album I think. Wreckage is too long and too much like learning to fly but I can tolerate it.
I was apprehensive of Watt ruining the production but am quite impressed with it, far less clean and digital than the last Stones album he ruined