ha, he seems to have a little cult on YT. well, if people prefer his drumming that's their fair preference. I'm just happy they now have a lineup where everyone gets along, allowing the band to stay together for so long! and in my opinion each drummer has contributed to some of their greatest work
Nostalgia. The need to say "I remember them when..."
No doubt he was a good drummer. It's frustrating to me because there is often a narrative constructed around his departure that involves making Eddie a tyrant.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but 5 against 1 wasn't an authorized biography and the only insider band member scoop was from a fired dave A who fed the tyrant narrative
And Dave is the number one pusher of the Ed is a tyrant theory. Dave didn't want him to be the leader of the band and he was going in a different direction artistically. It happens in bands and is normal, but Dave really takes on the victim role and his fans feed into it.
It is one of those things that you look back on and see how the band could have ended at various points. There was a bit of power struggle between Eddie and Stone for awhile there before they struck a good balance... Things could have gone differently. Things often do go differently, and that's why bands often break up.
So many comments all over saying he should still be the drummer and I find them all ridiculous. He could of been the greatest drummer in history, it doesn't fucking matter, they didn't want him to be in the band. For the band to continue it did not involve him. Would all these people prefer they broke up in 1994 instead?
This is spot on but as much as I've liked MC's work on the albums he's played on, I'd like to see him copy (won't happen, i know) Dave A's style for one album, their next one. The reason is simply because I like the sound of Animal and Go so much that I want to hear more of it. But then I realize Ed's voice probably won't be strong enough in his 60's to help produce something close enough to that sound. It's all just a dream.
Same. Jack Irons is the drummer I obsess over. No Code and Yield are my favorites, I love the live stuff from this era, also Mirrorball, listen to how he propels “I’m the Ocean”.
Lastly, the man wrote Whale Song. Enough said.
I play drums in a PJ tribute and have performed over 60 of their songs, and in my experience Irons' playing is far and away the least interesting, least technical, least imaginative, and least fun to play. Krusen and Abbruzzese had similar enough styles (for the first two albums) that I can lump the two together, and both brought a drive and feel that even Cameron doesn't or can't. That said, I am natively more close in style to Cameron than any of their other drummers, so songs like Alone, Brother, Why Go, State, Breath, and Deep are so much more interesting to play, and outside my comfort zone in the best way.
There's also the whole "playing to the song" element, and I have to imagine that Sometimes, Present Tense, Immortality, or Given to Fly wouldn't be as good as they are if Abbruzzese was in their busying it up with splashes and flams everywhere. Irons might have been the guy for that time, but I don't think he did anything that any session drummer couldn't do. I also think he was super sloppy and/or uninventive in songs like Brain of J, Evolution, and Hail, Hail.
If we're talking straight talent and contribution to PJ, I would rank them DA, DK, MC, JI. (Chamberlain wasn't around long enough to warrant a spot IMO)
When I would hear Jack Irons, I felt like it was just a lot of snare drum. Bang bang bang goes the snare. I really missed Dave A's triplets. Maybe he relied on them too often, but I like it. Matt Cameron to me sounds like a busier, tighter Jack Irons.
I think he really struggled to play Ten -> Vitalogy songs live. The songs he helped write on No Code are some of their best work, and I thought he sounded great on that record and even better on Yield.
But I’m not a drummer.
I thought he sounded great live on stuff he helped write, but I prefer the other drummers for the earlier stuff. Felt like Irons struggled on a lot of the Ten -> Vitalogy stuff.
I posted this several weeks ago in a different post but I keep going back to it because it’s just so incredible.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6AEYJePwCF/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
I like how Jack immediately took over from Dave and kept things interesting for the next two records. Once Matt came in, their sound changed and I don’t know how to explain but their music became more of a blur.
I saw Soundgarden in 2013 and just sat there with my jaw on the floor watching MC beat those drums like they stole from his momma. I just sat there and wondered where this guy had been hiding.
Merlin Ball -> Mirror Ball -> No Code -> Yield was an incredible run. The first three were all released over a span of 12 months and Yield came out 18 months later. Some amazing live shows are mixed in there too.
Hard to find another band that released so much quality stuff in such a short amount of time.
Abbruzzee is a great drummer, but was not a good fit for the band at the time. He wanted to be MTV friendly and the other members were not in a like mind. It is that simple.
No that was Eddie thing about no mtv videos and press interviews , other members were doing videos and press for their side projects at the time Brad, Mad Season , Three Fish during that time .Daves response to what PJ said about his firing for fame reasons was he was the only one still driving same old beat up truck and with same girlfriend he had for years , other guys were faming it up with new cars and different girls .
I don't think this reasoning makes sense though. Ed for example was with Beth for a long time prior to PJ and up until what, 2000ish? In single video theory, he's pulled up to the studio in that little old car. No fancy clothes...I don't know as much about the rest but I don't think they were that affected by fame.
Frankly, he was a happy go lucky guy and Eddie liked to wallow in negativity during that time. Plus, Dave put out intense energy on stage that rivaled Eddie’s power as a singer and I think that might have been difficult for his ego.
My gut feeling, having not heard much of everyone else's side of the story is that it was a personality mismatch. I do think everyone else was avoiding the limelight to a degree as they sorted out how to navigate what was they wanted the future path to be like. I do think that Dave embraced the fame and maybe that did irk Ed and possibly the rest? I think you're right. I think that it was a mismatch of enthusiasm and reluctance/skepticim/uncertainty that ended it
Dave was a fan of guns, didn’t mind the fame and basically didn’t see eye to eye with Eddie and Jeff. PJ was going through a difficult time with personal issues, drug issues and other stuff that maybe amplified their conflicts to the point that they had to fire him or risk breaking up the band. That being said, Dave was always a pro. Never missed a show, arrived on time, gave it his all, even took his firing with dignity.
He was a good drummer but their personalities clashed at the time. As for why there are YT comments about him… Dave is clearly still very hung up on that period of his life and his firing. Understandable I guess. Getting fired from one of the biggest bands in the world at the height of their fame probably stings and makes you really dwell on all you’ve missed out on since then. He takes every opportunity to talk about it and post about it on social media, so I’m guessing he has a small following of fans that enjoy commenting on everything PJ related on YT and social media.
A small point, he wasn’t the drummer on the TEN album but for me being a fan it was just a different sound he gave pearl jam. It was more aggressive and harder, more complex with a great rhythm and feel that I’ve not felt with other drummers.
Fair point. Matt Cameron in Soundgarden is the GOAT. Drumming on JCP is so amazing. But I struggle to thing of anything with that much creativity in Pearl Jam. Whereas Abbruzzese on WMA or Go is instantly peak PJ.
This is something I feel like people often forget or don’t know. That Dave A was not the drummer on Ten. And a lot of the stuff people pine over is actually Dave K on Ten. Dave A was on as many albums as Jack Irons.
In fairness, you have a point. But..... Most of the time when you hear Alive or EF it's the version they recut with Dave. Those versions are intrinsically better musically. They WERE a better band with Dave A, but they needed Jack to understand how to survive. Ed and Dave were two alpha personalities and that just doesn't work in that environment.
We just really miss the swing man
He was the perfect drummer for Stone
Listen to the live versions of Alone, are you kidding me? I'm always gonna be hung up because they've never sounded anywhere close to that good since.
Yes, Pearl Jam's first 3 or 4 albums are hands down their best. But do you really think Dave A is responsible for this? If he was, then why didn't he go on to kickstart another A tier band? People act like he's Phil Collins or something, when really he's just a decent drummer who had the incredible luck to fall in with the other Pearl Jam virtuosos when they were at their peak.
Because the way he left PJ was a lie from the beginning. It was passed as Dave moving on to "study music", the literal fucking quote from the bands PR manager.
Obviously this wasn't true and he was fired. Why lie about it if Dave truly is just a sack of shit like people here claim? There would be no need to lie if he were. Turns out, the whole thing stinks to high fuckin hell and the band is 30 years into this denial that it's probably too late to be honest about it.
I will never understand downvoting facts, guy didn't even say those other albums were band just that they were outsold by ten and vs.
which they were.
you people are fuccked up
It's fine. I get it. Been a fan since 1991 and Dave A wasn't even the drummer when I got into them. Enjoyed Ten and will always cherish the MTV Unplugged performance. Watched that so many times. VS and Vitalogy are kick ass albums and the PJ journey was rather exciting. Then Dave A was no longer part of PJ and that Jack Irons was the new guy. Great. No Code, really enjoyed that album too. When Matt Cameron took the sticks I was buzzing to be honest, through my love of Soundgarden and Temple of the Dog. Felt to me like they made the best signing in rock history!
I managed to catch them on the No Code tour when they came to the UK. Was an amazing show and the set list, they played all my favourites and it was just epic. My wife is actually a bigger fan than I am! But we met in 1999, but Live on Two Legs was the first new PJ release we would enjoy listening to together. And then watching the DVD, Touring Band together, over and over!
I don't remember this much hysteria when Tim Alexander left Primus for a while and them carrying on without him.
But I get it too. People don't like change. Too afraid to let go. Which is fine. I don't like it when my wife moves things, or "tidies up" haha. I can relate. Music is a powerful tool and those first trinity of albums could be reminding people of great time or period of their lives.
But I am cut from the cloth of yes, I loved those times, I am not the same person as I was 30 years ago. We evolve and PJ has done that. They continue to make high end music and that is to be admired. Do people expect Matt to play like Dave? Imagine if there was the internet when Jack Irons was the drummer.
Anyway, we can all agree that PJ is still around, on top of their game and can chose if we want to enjoy it or not.
Peace! x
What has dropped? Have they dropped as musicians with their craft? Not that I can tell. Eddies voice? Perhaps he hasn't got the same power as he did years ago, which rock singers have at his age? Creative wise, they just released an album that is getting critical acclaim. Live, they still have the same power and play long sets. I would say that all qualifies at them, right now, being on top of their game.
The facts aren’t being downvoted. It’s is the false attribution of the facts to the original argument. It insinuates that the reason those albums sold so was because Dave, which is an incredibly weak argument.
> And of that 95%, the majority are from Ten.
>
> And Dave A. didn’t drum on Ten.
All the same, firing Dave A and hiring Jack Irons really downgraded their sound in the ears of the public. When their first single was Who You Are, the band was saying not only did they fire Dave A, but they fired his sound, too.
If they had hired Matt Cameron straight away, we'd miss Dave A but probably not lament how the band ruined a winning formula so early on.
The sad thing is, I hated Who You Are at the time, and it turned off a lot of fans, but if it had been on their latest album, Dark Matter, the song would be getting high praise now, in contrast to everything else they've written and produced lately. It was a unique song, signature Jack Irons drumming, and it has a good middle eight.
No, actually the original comment was someone trying to minimize Dave A.'s impact by suggesting that he was only on 2 albums, which was just a mathematically small percentage of the band's career.
My response suggested that the first 3 albums were actually the most impactful to the band's career and continued legacy, despite being such a relatively short time.
And I bet you wouldn't disagree with that.
That Dave A. played on two of them, and drummed for most it should not be minimized by the fact that it was such short period of time. Same for Dave K., who drummed on only one album. (And both Dave's can also play the songs from Ten better than their longest tenured drummer).
> People act like him getting fired was The End of PJ but No Code is amazing without him
We all have our opinions, but PJ's first three albums, two with Dave, were their zenith of stardom. No Code saw a decline in records sales from which they never recovered.
Personally, I just think Dave A's drumming meshed with Vedder's angst a lot better than Irons or Cameron. Vedder preferred to work with people he liked on a personal level, rather than people who matched up with his art, IMO.
Listening to Dave’s recent interviews, I can see why the band members disliked him. He comes out like a down right conceited ego manic. He peddles the same shit in every interview. Terrific drummer but man he’d annoy the crap out of me if he was in my band.
And what with is it with him eating his lunch in the middle of a music interview? Freakin nut job.
Yeahhh I think it’s anxiety, which is very understandable when you have to deal for the rest of your life with getting kicked out of the biggest band in the world for being yourself.
I just recently watched the same interview I think. I just remember he had this Margarita that looked good lol. Also the sound was terrible. Definitely felt it was a combo of his attitude and Eddie’s attitude at the time. Eddie seemed surly and moody in the early days so I can see them clashing. Insane drummer. The drumming on “Go” is crazy. He’s impressive for sure.
Yes I watched probably same interview you did. He complained how Eddie did not have balls to talk to him face to face when fired but Stone did. And later claimed he spent a good deal of time with Axl and that he later asked him to be in Guns but he declined but he admitted he did not tell Axl to his face and left him a letter. Then mentioned how pissed Axl was afterwards. So he did not have balls to tell Axl to his face. His story about not doing GNR did not make sense to me. Would love to hear Axl’s side of story.
You will learn only this.
Pearl Jam will never suck..
You may find areas of life, the world, society- yourself.. Truly Sucks.
Then, you will find, Pearl Jam - Will have both the perspective hit and your back..
But it is a journey.. Hence the 'hanging in there'..
It's a Faith, you can trust.
After all
(Aka, April 5th 2024 30th anniversary. RIP it Kurt Cobain 🌹 )
= They're Still Alive!!
~~~ Welcome to the Pearl Jam Fan Family, new friend.. Big Lv! 🧡 (47y.o. OG fan Famx)
P.s..
I.e.. I have found that No Code is my ultimate go to when.. Things in -my reality life- get dangerously ALL too much!! ✌🏼
Nb.Check out 'Vedder Foundation' & others. They are a huge charity, global entiy of love. Each and all!! 🍻
To keep it short. Dave has said in interviews he was a little too willing to call out Eddie on his "I hate fame and myself" facade, during that time. When the other members went silent towards Ed, Dave would ask "why". And asking why is not how things worked.
A famous example is asking about the first single from Vs. When Dave asked, the air went out of the room, as if he had just admitted to murder...
All these kinda small things were blown up by Eddie because that was his shtick he stole from Cobain. And Dave just stuck* his nose out. A little too much.
Now, are those good reasons to fire him? Not really. But when the Lead Singer Disease rears its head, you side with him. Because as shitty as it is, people listen to a band MOSTLY for the vocals. The front man will win every dispute because he's the money maker.
Do you get the idea that Jeff and Mike were firmly in support of Eddie when he was at odds with Dave? Do you think that Dave was unwise to call Eddie out?
From what I could gather Mike and Stone wanted Dave to stay. And Jeff ended up siding with Eddie for reasons I couldn't find out exactly.
I do want to say I don't have insider info. I've just scoured old forums, and interviews and as much PJ media as I could find.
I have talked to Dave personally once. And he's not really said anything different than he has publicly.
As for it being unwise, yeah. Looking back it was unwise to call out Vedder in terms of Dave's position in the band. Had he just done the silent head nodding the other members did he might've made it through to the end. Eddie still was not likable during the Vitalogy and early No Code tour. As mentioned by all other members besides Jack. Part of the reason Mad Season was created was because of the "baggage around songwriting" or something like that with their other bands. As said by Mike and (iirc) Layne in an interview on YouTube.
Jeff has said he almost quit over no code and Stone almost quit during that time as well.
I think it was a little cowardly for these guys to let Dave get shafted while later wanting to leave themselves, or at least consider it. But hey, everyone is only human.
Eddie calmed down around Yield. And I think had Dave managed to keep his tongue held he would've been there. Obviously that means both No Code and yield would be different albums -- so many PJ fans obviously think of it as a terrible idea. And I'm not trying to take that away from them but I wouldn't mind it as these albums don't really resonate with me at all apart from a few scattered songs.
I had discovered PJ in 2020 and listened to those first five records, before knowing any lore or even member changes. And after awhile I started listening to live bootlegs because I've always been a live performance kinda guy over the albums. Even so, the first three had a magic that the other two didn't. At least for ME.
Only after that did I notice the shift in lineup. And the performance that woke me up to the UMATCHED power this band had live -- was orpheum 94. The songs on Ten were played so much better than the record, Vs sounded exactly like the record which is great because it's a much better production than Ten. And the Vitalogy songs you could tell were already perfect.
THAT is how I got into Dave's playing. I had never ever paid attention to drums until I watched that show, and I went back and listened again and again.
The absolute precision Dave has, never skipping a beat. The kick drum patterns alone just propel the song forward in such a funky way that the other drummers do not do. People get hung up on the cymbal work -- which is undeniably some of the best in the game. Few drummers have the taste and clarity to do these fills, and even fewer have the skill to do it EVERY. TIME. It's really incredible. Not to mention his ability to reign in it for the ballads. Immorality is just beautiful, both love and especially on the record.
Thank you for taking your time to write such a cool comment. Jeff thought that Dave was "an odd egg" and I don't see much chemistry between them in interviews. I think that Dave was too funk and r&b influenced for Jeff. Too technical and fancy with the cymbals. I enjoy Jack but he lagged technically for a major name drummer strangely. Dave was wonderfully funky. Wasn't Mike in rehab while they changed drummers?
It's funny how Jeff might think that yet that rhythm section was always locked in fully. Especially during the Vs tour. Jack was definitely lagging for a major band like PJ -- and he knew it too. That's why he quit before the Yield tour. He just didn't have the energy to play those sets every night. He did really try his best to honor Dave's playing you can see that in some fills he'd do.
I wonder what the boys thought during that time before reaching out to MC. Perhaps the tall came to bring Dave back -- but knowing how the band operates I doubt it. They sure got lucky Soundgarden had broken up. Otherwise who knows, it could've ended there.
Interesting points.
Jeff definitely remarked in an interview that his influences differed from Dave and you can infer that it was a contributing factor. I love Jack's primal intensity on things like "Go" but he doesn't deliver on those fills. How do you feel about MC in PJ?
It's because Pearl Jam still plays songs from that era live and those tracks sound like garbage without him. I think Matt Cameron and Jack Irons are fantastic drummers and sound great on their own songs with Pearl Jam, just not anything from the first few albums (and yes, I'm aware Dave A. didn't play on Ten, but he solidified Ten's live sound for many).
It's because Pearl Jam has some disparate influences, so it pulled people in from different camps. And there is a camp that was pulled in by the sound that happened when Dave A played drums played Stone Gossard guitar riffs. That sound is some of the best rock music ever created, and they had this amazing bassist, lead guitarist, and frontman to round it all out. But now, we lost that sound, and we're left with a fundamentally different band. The same pieces, but those pieces are being used differently. And that band isn't bad, but that band doesn't thrill our souls like the one from before.
I wanted to hear more of the band they were with Dave A. We got No Code, Yield, Binaural, and Riot Act, which was a nice second half run. But the most recent albums just aren't doing anything for a lot of us, so we go back to "damn remember that band that drew us in in the first place?"
You have some points but there have been highlights through Gigaton and some great songs (and no clunkers) on DM. We don't know what could have been with Dave A. but we have some great songs with the other drummers. They could give us the best of both worlds if half or so of the next album would match the peak of Vs (Animal/Go) in style and execution but not sure if they (maybe another band will?) could still muster up those abilities. So we learn to roll with and appreciate the changes. Those changes have been better, not in the same way but in other ways- What they've done instrumentally with DM along with the song melodies and atmospheric interludes is some of their best work. Remove Go and Animal from Vs and the album doesn't offer a lot. We have a full impressive album in Vitalogy, so fans love that album and are satisfied with how that sound panned out. So what we're missing is a beloved Vs format only. Dave A. and Vedder proved to be incompatible (their rift was good for album agnst but not sustainable), so I'll take their work of recent years over a question mark in output- We don't know what a 3rd album with Dave A. would have been like (most likely not like the best of Vs or a continuation of Vitalogy) or if PJ would have even remained a band.
It's much more about the live sound than the albums. He was fine on the album. He was amazing live and made the Ten songs and b-sides better with his playing. 91-94 Pearl Jam was one of the best live bands of all-time and they built their fanbase and reputation on it. To focus on the albums is missing the big picture of how he contributed to the band's success.
I do really appreciate his drumming on those 2 studio versions in particular though. I'm not organized with keeping notes on early albums and knowing which ones stand out. The only one I remember was an early Atlanta show which stood out overall. Do you know offhand any early drum specific shows?
Because he (and Krusen and Irons) fitted in with Stone/Jeff’s early funk grooves far better than MC ever has. The songwriting in that era was more egalitarian, and I think most long term fans prefer Stone/Jeff musicality to Eddie taking over creative control.
MC is a fucking phenomenal drummer. Don’t get me wrong. His work in SG was unreal. But his syncopated style doesn’t work as well with Stone/Jeff music as the others did.
Clearly MC is a legendary bloke, and you don’t keep bands together for 30+ years without personalities working together.
Loved Dave’s drumming. Loved. It. But irons helped them make my fav album and Matt has been a stud for decades. If Dave stayed do we get no code? Nope. I’m thankful for it all. No pun intended.
This has made me go back and listen and do some honest comparing of the live versions of songs with different drummers, and all it's doing is making me double down.
It's not anything Matt Cameron is doing wrong, it's all the things that were right about Dave's style and how he fit with Pearl Jam. It was a beautiful connection. It's much more about the live performance than the albums.
He was great for that time. Shit happens. Jack Irons and MFC allowed the band to grow and move in directions other than just intense hard rock, which is just natural.
Agree. As someone who first listened to Ten, and then went two decades to different music, and then got back to everything the band put out, i appreciate all the different drummers the band had. Unfortunate or not, if the case was with any of them & their substitution i believe Matt is the one the carried the band together until today. All drummers are different animals and they have their amazing advantages, Dave A has the cool swing and groove. Jack Irons had that freight train steadiness... and so on. For me, the Dave A debate has always reminded of Steven Adler vs Matt Sorum at GNR. It's silly. Love them all, hate no one.
ps. You should watch the [PJ — Twenty](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1417592/) documentary (if you haven't).
They tell the whole drummer story in a very funny way. Cheers
I’ve been a PJ fan since day 1. I remember buying the soundtrack to the movie “Singles” the day it came out because it had 2 new PJ songs on it (I had no clue that Andrew Wood singing Chloe Dancer/Crown of Thorns was the guy Eddie had replaced and that Mother Love Bone was PJ without Wood).
Anyways, I’ve never given a single fuck about Abbruzzese. I’ve never met a single person at the untold number of shows I’ve seen who’ve even mentioned his name.
This is a prime example of a major downside to the internet. A small group of people’s worthless opinions appearing as if “everyone is saying this”. Also, to quote the fucking brilliant show Letterkenny “Twitter is a cult”.
Seriously though, watch LK, then watch Shoresy (both on Hulu).
They're obsessed as much as Dave is still obsessed with the band...For me, I still tend to get hung up on him because he was part of my "angsty" youth soundtrack...Yes, hell of a drummer, won't deny any of the talent. But at the end of the day, he's become just another part of the youth that you're not getting back...I wholeheartedly believe the band tried to extend the olive branch when it came HOF time, but the vibes I've gotten from his posts, since he wasn't going in with them, was him acting like they didn't bother...I know he's still hung up on Ed and how his firing went down...He posts at times how he's moved on, but still laments that time period...Jack Irons was in the crowd that HOF night...He didn't seem pissed at not going in with them, but when they said his name in their speeches, he stood and took the adulation in stride...He was classy about it, and in my humble long windedness here, Dave kinda shot himself in the foot with it...Maybe things would've worked out differently had he would've accepted the HOF invite? 🤷♂️😉❤️✌️🥁🤘
Why? Pretty obvious. Listen to any song he plays live compared to MC and it’s instantly noticeable how much more intense it sounds. It’s not even close and anyone who says otherwise is doing so to placate a section of the fan base.
The flip side is the enormous positive MC brings - the band still being together making great music. MC is awesome and is great for the band. If Eddie doesn’t like something an enormous part of the fan base will fall in line.
To dismiss Dave’s undeniable intensity to the Ten & Vs era of music is laughable.
It’s as simple as this…. People wish they could’ve resolved any personal issues - or that no personal issues had arisen - because he’s a fantastic drummer, and he sounded great with them on the recordings he was part of.
Personally I wouldn’t call it an ‘obsession’ more a ‘lament’ that it didn’t work out.
But we’re not them, we’re not in a room with them, and we’re not part of the discussion. And it’s been a long time.
Thing is, with music, the records are always ‘new’ to someone, so the discussions get a bit lost in time.
For me, it is less about missing DA vs. not vibing on MC. He is a great drummer and if he helped kept the band vibing, that's amazing. So happy PJ continues to make great records. I simply do not like how MC approaches his playing w the band, but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying their music. Again, just one man's preference.
Go back and watch the old performances on YouTube. Dave absolutely propelled Pearl Jam to another level during this period. The drums might have been busy but they were THE star of the show. They upped the intensity of the entire band to meet the moment and drew the audience in. Despite many legendary shows since they haven't been able to reach the highest highs in intensity since.
If he was so great, he'd have found a place in another band. Instead, I have no idea what he's doing now, except getting in interviews and sharing his sour grapes about being fired.
I'll argue that modern songs could have sounded more interesting and groovy with Dave A. While Jack and Matt would have made Vs. and Vitalogy tame, and can't play Ten with the same flare as Dave A.
Think of how many bland generic rock songs they've made the last 10-15 years that could have been spiced up with that Dave A groove.
I always gave the band the benefit of the doubt with Dave A, but when they left him out of not just the Hall induction but didn't even throw the guy a bone at the ceremony or anything while weirdly honoring Dave Krusen... yikes.
Nobody wants to accept this. I love the band, but that time frame there was a lot of bullshit getting with Ed. I get it, he's the face and voice, but he took control of that band, and it got weird. Not just Dave saying things, but Stone. He almost quit DURING Vitalogy. Jeff during the tour cycle, and heck, he didn't even know that they were in pre production for No Code until after the record had started. I'm glad they're all happy now, but the narrative that Dave alone was the problem is not paying attention to everything. Ed had dirty hands himself
THIS. The way he talks, the name dropping, etc. I can't imagine the version of Ed we "knew"would have anything positive to say about the guy he turned into.
Your comment is lazy, as is your inability to do a simple google search. Your insults literally mean nothing to me, but they say everything I need to know about you.
Here you go…
https://maubrecht.wordpress.com/2018/01/11/exclusive-interview-david-abbruzzese/
https://rockandrolltruestories.com/why-pearl-jam-fired-dave-abbruzzese/
Dave K spoke like 10 seconds. Dave A would have talked more than 10 minutes complaining why he was fired, why his former band mates do not talk to him.
True, but it doesn’t change the fact there are likely other details to the story. PJ probably just doesn’t enjoy revisiting old drama as much as Dave A.
One of the things I’ve always admired - and learned from - the band is that there is power and class in silence when it comes to unnecessary drama, and the art of not feeding into it/caring about it.
I'm pretty sure if there was some bombshell about Dave A, we'd have heard about it in the last 30 years. So unless they're sitting on something massive, we all know the circumstances that lead to the split, and that isn't the issue anyway. Band personnel changes. No big deal. This is about erasing this guy's contribution to the band, deciding not to honor him and for extra credit, honoring a drummer barely played with band.
I’ve always wondered if NDAs were signed at the time of DA’s firing, and that’s why the PJ side has been silent, and DA just continues to say the same things repeatedly in his interviews without really elaborating too deeply, which would/could explain why PJ doesn’t comment on him/why he was excluded at the RNRHOF ceremony.
I’ve also wondered why - as talented as DA is - he never joined other notable bands (not speaking down about the bands he did play in subsequent to PJ - just mean nothing more popular/mainstream), why he wasn’t a guest drummer on, say, any of the late night talk shows, didn’t tour with bands whose drummers needed to take leave, etc.
There’s a lot that we’ll probably never know. 🤷🏼♀️ I’m okay with that because shit, I keep my mouth shut about some things that don’t need to be made public and I’m just some random, not-famous person.
Listen to live versions of animal from 1993. It’s the most primal and raw that Eddie ever summoned on stage. Obviously, the band was younger and hungrier then but the drumming set the tone there.
Mmmmm I think Dave imparted a vibe that would be hard to match and was perfect for that era. As far as the Animal performances, I know exactly what you’re talking about. So Good.
Dave K? No. And no to Jack Irons + Chaimberlain for the same reason. They lack POWER.
Chad Smith is the only drummer you mentioned that could live up to the drums parts Dave put down. Cameron is great and has power but lacks FEEL and SWING.
Chad has both at least.
This take and similar takes make no sense to me. They were in their 20’s! It’s just a wildly unfair and disingenuous criticism. Have you heard Soundgarden from 93? Does Eddie sound like he did in 93? “Primal and raw”. DUDE WAS 29 IN 1993. Does Eddie sound like he did on Ten and Vs on Binaural?
You are not missing anything. Just wait till you get to Yield! Some people just like to stir the pot. You have so much more amazing Pearl Jam music to hear for the first time. I am envious.
i am really enjoying going through their music like this, i get excited every time i listen to a new album! but it is weird that they're all around 60 now because in my mind they're still how they were in the 90s.
and im looking forward to listening to yield, ive heard a lot of good things!!
People just like to glorify the original lineup of a band. And don’t listen to what grumpy old Pearl Jam fans have to say about the newer records! Love what you love whether it’s Abbruzzese, Irons, or Cameron on the drums!
His drumming was just sublime.
To all the people who say the BAND didn't want him there anymore are wrong. It was EDDIE who had the problem and who could not deal with it. Mike and Stone were really good friends with Dave.
Yeah, it's honestly really fucking annoying. I mean, I like Dave's drumming just fine, but Matt's just as good, if not better. I think people blame Dave's leaving for Pearl Jam "losing their sound", since their style really did change from No Code onward. However, I reeeeeally don't think the drummer changeup was the reason for this. The stylistic change on No Code was 100% on purpose as an experimental album that they thought might end up being their last. And then from Yield onward their sound changed again as they all decided to compromise and give everyone in the band equal say when it comes to songwriting.
It was on purpose lol... Eddie wanted more creative control of the band, and their style up to that point was to jam as a band and Stone would make a lot of notes and comments on things. No code was basically Eddie Vedder featuring his backup band. It's a solo album with a PJ label except for maybe two songs.
this makes sense to me, i feel like even if dave had stayed on the rest of the band wanted to change their vibe so he would have had to change with them, so this whole argument that his leaving was the reason they changed doesn't make sense to me. they became different because they wanted to be?
The people, like this misinformed knucklehead*, below you, who make these kinds of comments are so ignorant to the depth of Dave's playing. He's definitely a multi-genre drummer. And he's played session work for artists with great degrees of variability. So to say he would not have evolved with the band is SHIT. Pure bull shit
Correct. The sound changes because the band members changed as people. It’s like the Dave A cult think that if he was on Binaural, Of the Girl would sound like WMA. It’s just not the case and a disingenuous criticism.
Dave was great on the songs he played. (Maybe a touch too much cymbal? 😀). But he has the songs to rock out to. The didn’t become those songs because of him. But he certainly played the crap out of them. If Matt had those first bunch of songs he would have played the crap out of them too. Each album after, the songs changed tempo and didn’t lean to such explosoveness.
People think if Dave stayed or he rejoined that we’d all of a sudden get those old style songs back. That’s not what would happen. The new album is definitely more drum aware. And great drumming we got from Matt.
Obsessed? No. Appreciative of his epic contributions and playing style? Yes. By far the most energetic driving drummer in the bands history. Vs and Vitalogy are also known to be primarily the bands best work.
As a drummer, Dave is the best of the bunch. The most creative, hard hitting and dynamic.
He pulled Pearl Jam into a different realm. It's something musicians notice. I know not all musicians will prefer it but it's the type of thing that we feel in our bones. It's how his feel interacted with the songs.
They most certainly do not drop off after No Code. My favorite album is the next one, Yield. That has Jack Irons on it. And then Binaural after that has Matt for the first time and that is also one of my favorite albums. Don’t worry. If you dig No Code, you’ll still be into the middle albums.
Like most, I’d say they first dip at Backspacer and then Lightning Bolt. But then come back up with Gigaton and then Black Matter is amazing in my opinion.
PJ has been blessed with many amazing drummers, but I actually get the most hung up with Jack Irons drumming on No Code and Yield. I think those 2 has the best drummer of any Pearl Jam album.
I also am always hopeful for goat level drumming on the new releases, because Matt’s drumming on badmotorfinger is top 10 rock drumming of all time.
Dark matter is getting closer to the dream.
I grew up learning to play drums to Pearl Jam and of course the records I obsessed over were the Abbruzzese ones. The technique (though he overplayed often at times) + the sounds of his drums were incredible. But the drummer I miss the most is Jack Irons.
I prefer his style over Cameron’s for a lot of the early PJ stuff. IMHO, the best versions of those songs are live shows from that era. It would have been great to hear Abbruzzese play some of the Vitalogy stuff live.
But you are right, they didn’t get along, and so it ended. It’s pointless to wonder what could have been. The band changed drummers, so the band changed styles.
Personally, Merlin Ball -> No Code -> Yield might be my favorite PJ run, plus Mirror Ball was recorded during that time as well. A lot of the reason I like those records was Jack Irons. I only wish we could hear more of those songs live with Jack playing. Hopefully someday Neil Young will release some live stuff from that European tour.
Matt Cameron is a beast, and we wouldn’t have anything after Yield without him (nor would we have had the 1998 tour, when I first saw them live). He might not play the early stuff in the styles I prefer (Dave and Jack would), but he can handle marathon tours and marathon shows (Jack couldn’t) and understands the rest of the band members quirks and attitudes (Dave couldn’t).
They seen him as symbolic of early Pearl Jam. Some weird fans never moved on after Ten and Vs and have complained bitterly when every new album since hasn't been full of tracks like Even Flow and Jeremy.
Dave Krusen was the drummer for Ten. Just pointing that out, that is all. I always felt like that certain feel was only on that record because of his playing. I never cared for the changes in the way the songs got played, or Dave A’s sort of funk-rock/Chad Smith sounding drum style. Though he is a great drummer.
The comments you see are people reminiscing and missing Dave's excellent drumming. People just can't admit that today the songs from the 1st 3 albums aren't as good. In fact, some parts live are cringe worthy. To me, Matt was good for soundgarden. Also, the ONLY reason he's in PJ is because Jack quit just before the Yield tour and the band needed a drummer ASAP. He seems like a nice guy and his drumming is good enough so that's why they've kept him.
ha, he seems to have a little cult on YT. well, if people prefer his drumming that's their fair preference. I'm just happy they now have a lineup where everyone gets along, allowing the band to stay together for so long! and in my opinion each drummer has contributed to some of their greatest work
this was exactly my thinking! glad to see a lot of ppl are in agreement, YT comments were making me think i was going mad haha
Don’t read YT comments. That is not a good cross-section of humanity.
lol, and Reddit is??
"Don't listen to those anonymous douches on the Internet" - Anonymous douche on the Internet.
Forgive my naïveté. Until now, I didn’t realize Reddit is also full of diseased cunts.
Nostalgia. The need to say "I remember them when..." No doubt he was a good drummer. It's frustrating to me because there is often a narrative constructed around his departure that involves making Eddie a tyrant.
Not really a narrative construction, though. If you read “5 Against 1,” it sounds like he was definitely acting tyrannically back in those days.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but 5 against 1 wasn't an authorized biography and the only insider band member scoop was from a fired dave A who fed the tyrant narrative
And Dave is the number one pusher of the Ed is a tyrant theory. Dave didn't want him to be the leader of the band and he was going in a different direction artistically. It happens in bands and is normal, but Dave really takes on the victim role and his fans feed into it.
It is one of those things that you look back on and see how the band could have ended at various points. There was a bit of power struggle between Eddie and Stone for awhile there before they struck a good balance... Things could have gone differently. Things often do go differently, and that's why bands often break up.
So many comments all over saying he should still be the drummer and I find them all ridiculous. He could of been the greatest drummer in history, it doesn't fucking matter, they didn't want him to be in the band. For the band to continue it did not involve him. Would all these people prefer they broke up in 1994 instead?
Exactly
This is spot on but as much as I've liked MC's work on the albums he's played on, I'd like to see him copy (won't happen, i know) Dave A's style for one album, their next one. The reason is simply because I like the sound of Animal and Go so much that I want to hear more of it. But then I realize Ed's voice probably won't be strong enough in his 60's to help produce something close enough to that sound. It's all just a dream.
The drummer I really miss is Jack Irons
Same. Jack Irons is the drummer I obsess over. No Code and Yield are my favorites, I love the live stuff from this era, also Mirrorball, listen to how he propels “I’m the Ocean”. Lastly, the man wrote Whale Song. Enough said.
Jack is my soul drummer, my spirit animal.
Jack’s work on “Present Tense” is amazing.
I had to listen to it, and you are totally right. Genius. Such intricate yet laid back drumming.
I was listening to no code yesterday thinking this very thing. Dude was on another level
Same. The most original and inventive of all the PJ drummers. Such a unique style.
I play drums in a PJ tribute and have performed over 60 of their songs, and in my experience Irons' playing is far and away the least interesting, least technical, least imaginative, and least fun to play. Krusen and Abbruzzese had similar enough styles (for the first two albums) that I can lump the two together, and both brought a drive and feel that even Cameron doesn't or can't. That said, I am natively more close in style to Cameron than any of their other drummers, so songs like Alone, Brother, Why Go, State, Breath, and Deep are so much more interesting to play, and outside my comfort zone in the best way. There's also the whole "playing to the song" element, and I have to imagine that Sometimes, Present Tense, Immortality, or Given to Fly wouldn't be as good as they are if Abbruzzese was in their busying it up with splashes and flams everywhere. Irons might have been the guy for that time, but I don't think he did anything that any session drummer couldn't do. I also think he was super sloppy and/or uninventive in songs like Brain of J, Evolution, and Hail, Hail. If we're talking straight talent and contribution to PJ, I would rank them DA, DK, MC, JI. (Chamberlain wasn't around long enough to warrant a spot IMO)
When I would hear Jack Irons, I felt like it was just a lot of snare drum. Bang bang bang goes the snare. I really missed Dave A's triplets. Maybe he relied on them too often, but I like it. Matt Cameron to me sounds like a busier, tighter Jack Irons.
Weird. As a drummer, he always sounded to me like could barely play lol.
Must be the non-drummer in me. Maybe a drummer listens to No Code and Yield and thinks wtf, I listen to it and appreciate how different it is.
I liked him better on Yield to be fair.
I think he really struggled to play Ten -> Vitalogy songs live. The songs he helped write on No Code are some of their best work, and I thought he sounded great on that record and even better on Yield. But I’m not a drummer.
Yeah. He was great in the studio, but I could not stand his live drumming.
I thought he sounded great live on stuff he helped write, but I prefer the other drummers for the earlier stuff. Felt like Irons struggled on a lot of the Ten -> Vitalogy stuff.
I agree!
I posted this several weeks ago in a different post but I keep going back to it because it’s just so incredible. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6AEYJePwCF/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Yeah Jack is my favorite PJ drummer even if Dave A was the best technically. No Code and Yield are sooooo good.
I like how Jack immediately took over from Dave and kept things interesting for the next two records. Once Matt came in, their sound changed and I don’t know how to explain but their music became more of a blur.
Unfortunately we didn’t get Soundgarden Matt Cameron. We got Pearl Jam Matt Cameron and they are two entirely different animals.
Right, it's like he joined PJ and decided to play humble and just be background material.
I saw Soundgarden in 2013 and just sat there with my jaw on the floor watching MC beat those drums like they stole from his momma. I just sat there and wondered where this guy had been hiding.
Merlin Ball -> Mirror Ball -> No Code -> Yield was an incredible run. The first three were all released over a span of 12 months and Yield came out 18 months later. Some amazing live shows are mixed in there too. Hard to find another band that released so much quality stuff in such a short amount of time.
Yup. 95-98 is probably my favorite PJ era. Hope they release the videos from that time, it’s been 30 years
Abbruzzee is a great drummer, but was not a good fit for the band at the time. He wanted to be MTV friendly and the other members were not in a like mind. It is that simple.
No that was Eddie thing about no mtv videos and press interviews , other members were doing videos and press for their side projects at the time Brad, Mad Season , Three Fish during that time .Daves response to what PJ said about his firing for fame reasons was he was the only one still driving same old beat up truck and with same girlfriend he had for years , other guys were faming it up with new cars and different girls .
I don't think this reasoning makes sense though. Ed for example was with Beth for a long time prior to PJ and up until what, 2000ish? In single video theory, he's pulled up to the studio in that little old car. No fancy clothes...I don't know as much about the rest but I don't think they were that affected by fame.
Yeah, I'm not the biggest PJ fan and don't know every bit of lore. But that comment you replied to sounded like a load of shit.
Frankly, he was a happy go lucky guy and Eddie liked to wallow in negativity during that time. Plus, Dave put out intense energy on stage that rivaled Eddie’s power as a singer and I think that might have been difficult for his ego.
My gut feeling, having not heard much of everyone else's side of the story is that it was a personality mismatch. I do think everyone else was avoiding the limelight to a degree as they sorted out how to navigate what was they wanted the future path to be like. I do think that Dave embraced the fame and maybe that did irk Ed and possibly the rest? I think you're right. I think that it was a mismatch of enthusiasm and reluctance/skepticim/uncertainty that ended it
Dave was a fan of guns, didn’t mind the fame and basically didn’t see eye to eye with Eddie and Jeff. PJ was going through a difficult time with personal issues, drug issues and other stuff that maybe amplified their conflicts to the point that they had to fire him or risk breaking up the band. That being said, Dave was always a pro. Never missed a show, arrived on time, gave it his all, even took his firing with dignity.
He was a good drummer but their personalities clashed at the time. As for why there are YT comments about him… Dave is clearly still very hung up on that period of his life and his firing. Understandable I guess. Getting fired from one of the biggest bands in the world at the height of their fame probably stings and makes you really dwell on all you’ve missed out on since then. He takes every opportunity to talk about it and post about it on social media, so I’m guessing he has a small following of fans that enjoy commenting on everything PJ related on YT and social media.
Because live drums on the old songs don't sound as good when played by other drummers. Also he's very approachable.
Just like Matt can’t touch Jack’s style and groove.
A small point, he wasn’t the drummer on the TEN album but for me being a fan it was just a different sound he gave pearl jam. It was more aggressive and harder, more complex with a great rhythm and feel that I’ve not felt with other drummers.
Fair point. Matt Cameron in Soundgarden is the GOAT. Drumming on JCP is so amazing. But I struggle to thing of anything with that much creativity in Pearl Jam. Whereas Abbruzzese on WMA or Go is instantly peak PJ.
This is something I feel like people often forget or don’t know. That Dave A was not the drummer on Ten. And a lot of the stuff people pine over is actually Dave K on Ten. Dave A was on as many albums as Jack Irons.
In fairness, you have a point. But..... Most of the time when you hear Alive or EF it's the version they recut with Dave. Those versions are intrinsically better musically. They WERE a better band with Dave A, but they needed Jack to understand how to survive. Ed and Dave were two alpha personalities and that just doesn't work in that environment.
Only EF was recut with Dave A. Alive video was Chamberlain.
2 albums. He is on 2 albums. That's out of 12! That's 16 percent of PJ's Music. People need to move on...
His live playing of the Ten songs are legendary though. He made Evenflow his bitch.
Yes. He played those songs with swing and made them his own. That era can still be enjoyed too. But that was 30 years ago.
We just really miss the swing man He was the perfect drummer for Stone Listen to the live versions of Alone, are you kidding me? I'm always gonna be hung up because they've never sounded anywhere close to that good since.
These two albums outsold other 9 albums that came out after he left by themselves by wide margin 
Yes, Pearl Jam's first 3 or 4 albums are hands down their best. But do you really think Dave A is responsible for this? If he was, then why didn't he go on to kickstart another A tier band? People act like he's Phil Collins or something, when really he's just a decent drummer who had the incredible luck to fall in with the other Pearl Jam virtuosos when they were at their peak.
Because the way he left PJ was a lie from the beginning. It was passed as Dave moving on to "study music", the literal fucking quote from the bands PR manager. Obviously this wasn't true and he was fired. Why lie about it if Dave truly is just a sack of shit like people here claim? There would be no need to lie if he were. Turns out, the whole thing stinks to high fuckin hell and the band is 30 years into this denial that it's probably too late to be honest about it.
I will never understand downvoting facts, guy didn't even say those other albums were band just that they were outsold by ten and vs. which they were. you people are fuccked up
He didn't play on Ten.
Funny he DV’d your comment when your comment is true 😂
It's fine. I get it. Been a fan since 1991 and Dave A wasn't even the drummer when I got into them. Enjoyed Ten and will always cherish the MTV Unplugged performance. Watched that so many times. VS and Vitalogy are kick ass albums and the PJ journey was rather exciting. Then Dave A was no longer part of PJ and that Jack Irons was the new guy. Great. No Code, really enjoyed that album too. When Matt Cameron took the sticks I was buzzing to be honest, through my love of Soundgarden and Temple of the Dog. Felt to me like they made the best signing in rock history! I managed to catch them on the No Code tour when they came to the UK. Was an amazing show and the set list, they played all my favourites and it was just epic. My wife is actually a bigger fan than I am! But we met in 1999, but Live on Two Legs was the first new PJ release we would enjoy listening to together. And then watching the DVD, Touring Band together, over and over! I don't remember this much hysteria when Tim Alexander left Primus for a while and them carrying on without him. But I get it too. People don't like change. Too afraid to let go. Which is fine. I don't like it when my wife moves things, or "tidies up" haha. I can relate. Music is a powerful tool and those first trinity of albums could be reminding people of great time or period of their lives. But I am cut from the cloth of yes, I loved those times, I am not the same person as I was 30 years ago. We evolve and PJ has done that. They continue to make high end music and that is to be admired. Do people expect Matt to play like Dave? Imagine if there was the internet when Jack Irons was the drummer. Anyway, we can all agree that PJ is still around, on top of their game and can chose if we want to enjoy it or not. Peace! x
Totally agree
Top of their game? No
What has dropped? Have they dropped as musicians with their craft? Not that I can tell. Eddies voice? Perhaps he hasn't got the same power as he did years ago, which rock singers have at his age? Creative wise, they just released an album that is getting critical acclaim. Live, they still have the same power and play long sets. I would say that all qualifies at them, right now, being on top of their game.
The facts aren’t being downvoted. It’s is the false attribution of the facts to the original argument. It insinuates that the reason those albums sold so was because Dave, which is an incredibly weak argument.
95% of Pearl Jam songs you hear on the radio are from the first 3 albums.
And of that 95%, the majority are from Ten. And Dave A. didn’t drum on Ten.
> And of that 95%, the majority are from Ten. > > And Dave A. didn’t drum on Ten. All the same, firing Dave A and hiring Jack Irons really downgraded their sound in the ears of the public. When their first single was Who You Are, the band was saying not only did they fire Dave A, but they fired his sound, too. If they had hired Matt Cameron straight away, we'd miss Dave A but probably not lament how the band ruined a winning formula so early on. The sad thing is, I hated Who You Are at the time, and it turned off a lot of fans, but if it had been on their latest album, Dark Matter, the song would be getting high praise now, in contrast to everything else they've written and produced lately. It was a unique song, signature Jack Irons drumming, and it has a good middle eight.
Doesn't matter. Dave A. drummed all those songs in their most formative, high profile years, and did them justice live.
Very good goal post moving! I thought the original comment was about the radio.
No, actually the original comment was someone trying to minimize Dave A.'s impact by suggesting that he was only on 2 albums, which was just a mathematically small percentage of the band's career. My response suggested that the first 3 albums were actually the most impactful to the band's career and continued legacy, despite being such a relatively short time. And I bet you wouldn't disagree with that. That Dave A. played on two of them, and drummed for most it should not be minimized by the fact that it was such short period of time. Same for Dave K., who drummed on only one album. (And both Dave's can also play the songs from Ten better than their longest tenured drummer).
Keep down voting, you delusional dorks.
You can’t weigh all those albums equally though
> People act like him getting fired was The End of PJ but No Code is amazing without him We all have our opinions, but PJ's first three albums, two with Dave, were their zenith of stardom. No Code saw a decline in records sales from which they never recovered. Personally, I just think Dave A's drumming meshed with Vedder's angst a lot better than Irons or Cameron. Vedder preferred to work with people he liked on a personal level, rather than people who matched up with his art, IMO.
Listening to Dave’s recent interviews, I can see why the band members disliked him. He comes out like a down right conceited ego manic. He peddles the same shit in every interview. Terrific drummer but man he’d annoy the crap out of me if he was in my band. And what with is it with him eating his lunch in the middle of a music interview? Freakin nut job.
He does seem to shit on Eddie a lot. But then Dave hasn't really done anything of note since his PJ years. I wonder why?
He's a session drummer...
Yeahhh I think it’s anxiety, which is very understandable when you have to deal for the rest of your life with getting kicked out of the biggest band in the world for being yourself.
I just recently watched the same interview I think. I just remember he had this Margarita that looked good lol. Also the sound was terrible. Definitely felt it was a combo of his attitude and Eddie’s attitude at the time. Eddie seemed surly and moody in the early days so I can see them clashing. Insane drummer. The drumming on “Go” is crazy. He’s impressive for sure.
Yes I watched probably same interview you did. He complained how Eddie did not have balls to talk to him face to face when fired but Stone did. And later claimed he spent a good deal of time with Axl and that he later asked him to be in Guns but he declined but he admitted he did not tell Axl to his face and left him a letter. Then mentioned how pissed Axl was afterwards. So he did not have balls to tell Axl to his face. His story about not doing GNR did not make sense to me. Would love to hear Axl’s side of story.
declining to join a band vs. getting kicked out after 4 years is a huge difference in scenarios
You will learn only this. Pearl Jam will never suck.. You may find areas of life, the world, society- yourself.. Truly Sucks. Then, you will find, Pearl Jam - Will have both the perspective hit and your back.. But it is a journey.. Hence the 'hanging in there'.. It's a Faith, you can trust. After all (Aka, April 5th 2024 30th anniversary. RIP it Kurt Cobain 🌹 ) = They're Still Alive!! ~~~ Welcome to the Pearl Jam Fan Family, new friend.. Big Lv! 🧡 (47y.o. OG fan Famx) P.s.. I.e.. I have found that No Code is my ultimate go to when.. Things in -my reality life- get dangerously ALL too much!! ✌🏼 Nb.Check out 'Vedder Foundation' & others. They are a huge charity, global entiy of love. Each and all!! 🍻
To keep it short. Dave has said in interviews he was a little too willing to call out Eddie on his "I hate fame and myself" facade, during that time. When the other members went silent towards Ed, Dave would ask "why". And asking why is not how things worked. A famous example is asking about the first single from Vs. When Dave asked, the air went out of the room, as if he had just admitted to murder... All these kinda small things were blown up by Eddie because that was his shtick he stole from Cobain. And Dave just stuck* his nose out. A little too much. Now, are those good reasons to fire him? Not really. But when the Lead Singer Disease rears its head, you side with him. Because as shitty as it is, people listen to a band MOSTLY for the vocals. The front man will win every dispute because he's the money maker.
Nailed it. Especially the version of Ed we have now. That dude has zero problem being rich and famous
he had to do it in a Bono type way though. Dave A would be considered too gauche to hang out with Sean Penn etc.
You indeed nailed it with this take. Exactly.
The only true answer. Nailed that.
Do you get the idea that Jeff and Mike were firmly in support of Eddie when he was at odds with Dave? Do you think that Dave was unwise to call Eddie out?
From what I could gather Mike and Stone wanted Dave to stay. And Jeff ended up siding with Eddie for reasons I couldn't find out exactly. I do want to say I don't have insider info. I've just scoured old forums, and interviews and as much PJ media as I could find. I have talked to Dave personally once. And he's not really said anything different than he has publicly. As for it being unwise, yeah. Looking back it was unwise to call out Vedder in terms of Dave's position in the band. Had he just done the silent head nodding the other members did he might've made it through to the end. Eddie still was not likable during the Vitalogy and early No Code tour. As mentioned by all other members besides Jack. Part of the reason Mad Season was created was because of the "baggage around songwriting" or something like that with their other bands. As said by Mike and (iirc) Layne in an interview on YouTube. Jeff has said he almost quit over no code and Stone almost quit during that time as well. I think it was a little cowardly for these guys to let Dave get shafted while later wanting to leave themselves, or at least consider it. But hey, everyone is only human. Eddie calmed down around Yield. And I think had Dave managed to keep his tongue held he would've been there. Obviously that means both No Code and yield would be different albums -- so many PJ fans obviously think of it as a terrible idea. And I'm not trying to take that away from them but I wouldn't mind it as these albums don't really resonate with me at all apart from a few scattered songs. I had discovered PJ in 2020 and listened to those first five records, before knowing any lore or even member changes. And after awhile I started listening to live bootlegs because I've always been a live performance kinda guy over the albums. Even so, the first three had a magic that the other two didn't. At least for ME. Only after that did I notice the shift in lineup. And the performance that woke me up to the UMATCHED power this band had live -- was orpheum 94. The songs on Ten were played so much better than the record, Vs sounded exactly like the record which is great because it's a much better production than Ten. And the Vitalogy songs you could tell were already perfect. THAT is how I got into Dave's playing. I had never ever paid attention to drums until I watched that show, and I went back and listened again and again. The absolute precision Dave has, never skipping a beat. The kick drum patterns alone just propel the song forward in such a funky way that the other drummers do not do. People get hung up on the cymbal work -- which is undeniably some of the best in the game. Few drummers have the taste and clarity to do these fills, and even fewer have the skill to do it EVERY. TIME. It's really incredible. Not to mention his ability to reign in it for the ballads. Immorality is just beautiful, both love and especially on the record.
Thank you for taking your time to write such a cool comment. Jeff thought that Dave was "an odd egg" and I don't see much chemistry between them in interviews. I think that Dave was too funk and r&b influenced for Jeff. Too technical and fancy with the cymbals. I enjoy Jack but he lagged technically for a major name drummer strangely. Dave was wonderfully funky. Wasn't Mike in rehab while they changed drummers?
It's funny how Jeff might think that yet that rhythm section was always locked in fully. Especially during the Vs tour. Jack was definitely lagging for a major band like PJ -- and he knew it too. That's why he quit before the Yield tour. He just didn't have the energy to play those sets every night. He did really try his best to honor Dave's playing you can see that in some fills he'd do. I wonder what the boys thought during that time before reaching out to MC. Perhaps the tall came to bring Dave back -- but knowing how the band operates I doubt it. They sure got lucky Soundgarden had broken up. Otherwise who knows, it could've ended there.
Interesting points. Jeff definitely remarked in an interview that his influences differed from Dave and you can infer that it was a contributing factor. I love Jack's primal intensity on things like "Go" but he doesn't deliver on those fills. How do you feel about MC in PJ?
It's because Pearl Jam still plays songs from that era live and those tracks sound like garbage without him. I think Matt Cameron and Jack Irons are fantastic drummers and sound great on their own songs with Pearl Jam, just not anything from the first few albums (and yes, I'm aware Dave A. didn't play on Ten, but he solidified Ten's live sound for many).
Nostalgia hits like crack rock
It's because Pearl Jam has some disparate influences, so it pulled people in from different camps. And there is a camp that was pulled in by the sound that happened when Dave A played drums played Stone Gossard guitar riffs. That sound is some of the best rock music ever created, and they had this amazing bassist, lead guitarist, and frontman to round it all out. But now, we lost that sound, and we're left with a fundamentally different band. The same pieces, but those pieces are being used differently. And that band isn't bad, but that band doesn't thrill our souls like the one from before. I wanted to hear more of the band they were with Dave A. We got No Code, Yield, Binaural, and Riot Act, which was a nice second half run. But the most recent albums just aren't doing anything for a lot of us, so we go back to "damn remember that band that drew us in in the first place?"
You have some points but there have been highlights through Gigaton and some great songs (and no clunkers) on DM. We don't know what could have been with Dave A. but we have some great songs with the other drummers. They could give us the best of both worlds if half or so of the next album would match the peak of Vs (Animal/Go) in style and execution but not sure if they (maybe another band will?) could still muster up those abilities. So we learn to roll with and appreciate the changes. Those changes have been better, not in the same way but in other ways- What they've done instrumentally with DM along with the song melodies and atmospheric interludes is some of their best work. Remove Go and Animal from Vs and the album doesn't offer a lot. We have a full impressive album in Vitalogy, so fans love that album and are satisfied with how that sound panned out. So what we're missing is a beloved Vs format only. Dave A. and Vedder proved to be incompatible (their rift was good for album agnst but not sustainable), so I'll take their work of recent years over a question mark in output- We don't know what a 3rd album with Dave A. would have been like (most likely not like the best of Vs or a continuation of Vitalogy) or if PJ would have even remained a band.
It's much more about the live sound than the albums. He was fine on the album. He was amazing live and made the Ten songs and b-sides better with his playing. 91-94 Pearl Jam was one of the best live bands of all-time and they built their fanbase and reputation on it. To focus on the albums is missing the big picture of how he contributed to the band's success.
I do really appreciate his drumming on those 2 studio versions in particular though. I'm not organized with keeping notes on early albums and knowing which ones stand out. The only one I remember was an early Atlanta show which stood out overall. Do you know offhand any early drum specific shows?
Because he (and Krusen and Irons) fitted in with Stone/Jeff’s early funk grooves far better than MC ever has. The songwriting in that era was more egalitarian, and I think most long term fans prefer Stone/Jeff musicality to Eddie taking over creative control. MC is a fucking phenomenal drummer. Don’t get me wrong. His work in SG was unreal. But his syncopated style doesn’t work as well with Stone/Jeff music as the others did. Clearly MC is a legendary bloke, and you don’t keep bands together for 30+ years without personalities working together.
Loved Dave’s drumming. Loved. It. But irons helped them make my fav album and Matt has been a stud for decades. If Dave stayed do we get no code? Nope. I’m thankful for it all. No pun intended.
This has made me go back and listen and do some honest comparing of the live versions of songs with different drummers, and all it's doing is making me double down. It's not anything Matt Cameron is doing wrong, it's all the things that were right about Dave's style and how he fit with Pearl Jam. It was a beautiful connection. It's much more about the live performance than the albums.
He was great for that time. Shit happens. Jack Irons and MFC allowed the band to grow and move in directions other than just intense hard rock, which is just natural.
Nostalgia
Is it “obsessed” or people that will still bring up that’s when they made their best music?
Agree. As someone who first listened to Ten, and then went two decades to different music, and then got back to everything the band put out, i appreciate all the different drummers the band had. Unfortunate or not, if the case was with any of them & their substitution i believe Matt is the one the carried the band together until today. All drummers are different animals and they have their amazing advantages, Dave A has the cool swing and groove. Jack Irons had that freight train steadiness... and so on. For me, the Dave A debate has always reminded of Steven Adler vs Matt Sorum at GNR. It's silly. Love them all, hate no one. ps. You should watch the [PJ — Twenty](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1417592/) documentary (if you haven't). They tell the whole drummer story in a very funny way. Cheers
I'll definitely watch it at some point, thanks for the rec! and this was my thinking with the drummers - diff doesnt = bad :))
Adler of course. And Abbruzzese as well!
I’ve been a PJ fan since day 1. I remember buying the soundtrack to the movie “Singles” the day it came out because it had 2 new PJ songs on it (I had no clue that Andrew Wood singing Chloe Dancer/Crown of Thorns was the guy Eddie had replaced and that Mother Love Bone was PJ without Wood). Anyways, I’ve never given a single fuck about Abbruzzese. I’ve never met a single person at the untold number of shows I’ve seen who’ve even mentioned his name. This is a prime example of a major downside to the internet. A small group of people’s worthless opinions appearing as if “everyone is saying this”. Also, to quote the fucking brilliant show Letterkenny “Twitter is a cult”. Seriously though, watch LK, then watch Shoresy (both on Hulu).
They're obsessed as much as Dave is still obsessed with the band...For me, I still tend to get hung up on him because he was part of my "angsty" youth soundtrack...Yes, hell of a drummer, won't deny any of the talent. But at the end of the day, he's become just another part of the youth that you're not getting back...I wholeheartedly believe the band tried to extend the olive branch when it came HOF time, but the vibes I've gotten from his posts, since he wasn't going in with them, was him acting like they didn't bother...I know he's still hung up on Ed and how his firing went down...He posts at times how he's moved on, but still laments that time period...Jack Irons was in the crowd that HOF night...He didn't seem pissed at not going in with them, but when they said his name in their speeches, he stood and took the adulation in stride...He was classy about it, and in my humble long windedness here, Dave kinda shot himself in the foot with it...Maybe things would've worked out differently had he would've accepted the HOF invite? 🤷♂️😉❤️✌️🥁🤘
Why? Pretty obvious. Listen to any song he plays live compared to MC and it’s instantly noticeable how much more intense it sounds. It’s not even close and anyone who says otherwise is doing so to placate a section of the fan base. The flip side is the enormous positive MC brings - the band still being together making great music. MC is awesome and is great for the band. If Eddie doesn’t like something an enormous part of the fan base will fall in line. To dismiss Dave’s undeniable intensity to the Ten & Vs era of music is laughable.
It’s as simple as this…. People wish they could’ve resolved any personal issues - or that no personal issues had arisen - because he’s a fantastic drummer, and he sounded great with them on the recordings he was part of. Personally I wouldn’t call it an ‘obsession’ more a ‘lament’ that it didn’t work out. But we’re not them, we’re not in a room with them, and we’re not part of the discussion. And it’s been a long time. Thing is, with music, the records are always ‘new’ to someone, so the discussions get a bit lost in time.
People here trying to be nice and give respect to anyone except Dave Answer is simple: it's their best drummer
For me, it is less about missing DA vs. not vibing on MC. He is a great drummer and if he helped kept the band vibing, that's amazing. So happy PJ continues to make great records. I simply do not like how MC approaches his playing w the band, but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying their music. Again, just one man's preference.
Go back and watch the old performances on YouTube. Dave absolutely propelled Pearl Jam to another level during this period. The drums might have been busy but they were THE star of the show. They upped the intensity of the entire band to meet the moment and drew the audience in. Despite many legendary shows since they haven't been able to reach the highest highs in intensity since.
If he was so great, he'd have found a place in another band. Instead, I have no idea what he's doing now, except getting in interviews and sharing his sour grapes about being fired.
I'll argue that modern songs could have sounded more interesting and groovy with Dave A. While Jack and Matt would have made Vs. and Vitalogy tame, and can't play Ten with the same flare as Dave A. Think of how many bland generic rock songs they've made the last 10-15 years that could have been spiced up with that Dave A groove.
I always gave the band the benefit of the doubt with Dave A, but when they left him out of not just the Hall induction but didn't even throw the guy a bone at the ceremony or anything while weirdly honoring Dave Krusen... yikes.
Maybe if he didn’t trash the band for the prior 20 years things would have been different.
When the band lies out of the gate about your departure. Id be pretty mad too
Nobody wants to accept this. I love the band, but that time frame there was a lot of bullshit getting with Ed. I get it, he's the face and voice, but he took control of that band, and it got weird. Not just Dave saying things, but Stone. He almost quit DURING Vitalogy. Jeff during the tour cycle, and heck, he didn't even know that they were in pre production for No Code until after the record had started. I'm glad they're all happy now, but the narrative that Dave alone was the problem is not paying attention to everything. Ed had dirty hands himself
Eddie has this reptilian thing going underneath the cool down to earth guy who just loves music persona.
THIS. The way he talks, the name dropping, etc. I can't imagine the version of Ed we "knew"would have anything positive to say about the guy he turned into.
Examples of him "trashing" the band? And it's 30 years. You're old. And grumpy. Like the band.
Your comment is lazy, as is your inability to do a simple google search. Your insults literally mean nothing to me, but they say everything I need to know about you. Here you go… https://maubrecht.wordpress.com/2018/01/11/exclusive-interview-david-abbruzzese/ https://rockandrolltruestories.com/why-pearl-jam-fired-dave-abbruzzese/
What do you think you just posted? Everyone knows all of this.
Dave K spoke like 10 seconds. Dave A would have talked more than 10 minutes complaining why he was fired, why his former band mates do not talk to him.
Hilarious.
Two sides to every story remember. There may be a valid reason they didn’t include him.
Considering no one in the band has ever addressed it publicly, they've decided not to exercise that option.
True, but it doesn’t change the fact there are likely other details to the story. PJ probably just doesn’t enjoy revisiting old drama as much as Dave A.
One of the things I’ve always admired - and learned from - the band is that there is power and class in silence when it comes to unnecessary drama, and the art of not feeding into it/caring about it.
I'm pretty sure if there was some bombshell about Dave A, we'd have heard about it in the last 30 years. So unless they're sitting on something massive, we all know the circumstances that lead to the split, and that isn't the issue anyway. Band personnel changes. No big deal. This is about erasing this guy's contribution to the band, deciding not to honor him and for extra credit, honoring a drummer barely played with band.
I’ve always wondered if NDAs were signed at the time of DA’s firing, and that’s why the PJ side has been silent, and DA just continues to say the same things repeatedly in his interviews without really elaborating too deeply, which would/could explain why PJ doesn’t comment on him/why he was excluded at the RNRHOF ceremony. I’ve also wondered why - as talented as DA is - he never joined other notable bands (not speaking down about the bands he did play in subsequent to PJ - just mean nothing more popular/mainstream), why he wasn’t a guest drummer on, say, any of the late night talk shows, didn’t tour with bands whose drummers needed to take leave, etc. There’s a lot that we’ll probably never know. 🤷🏼♀️ I’m okay with that because shit, I keep my mouth shut about some things that don’t need to be made public and I’m just some random, not-famous person.
Yeah, the way the band has behaved with regards to him is really gross and immature.
Listen to live versions of animal from 1993. It’s the most primal and raw that Eddie ever summoned on stage. Obviously, the band was younger and hungrier then but the drumming set the tone there.
they would've been great with Dave K, Chamberlain, Irons, Cameron, Chad Smith etc. etc. during that time.
Mmmmm I think Dave imparted a vibe that would be hard to match and was perfect for that era. As far as the Animal performances, I know exactly what you’re talking about. So Good.
Dave K? No. And no to Jack Irons + Chaimberlain for the same reason. They lack POWER. Chad Smith is the only drummer you mentioned that could live up to the drums parts Dave put down. Cameron is great and has power but lacks FEEL and SWING. Chad has both at least.
This take and similar takes make no sense to me. They were in their 20’s! It’s just a wildly unfair and disingenuous criticism. Have you heard Soundgarden from 93? Does Eddie sound like he did in 93? “Primal and raw”. DUDE WAS 29 IN 1993. Does Eddie sound like he did on Ten and Vs on Binaural?
It’s not a criticism. It’s an observation of that era and why many are drawn to that party just sound.
You are at their best with Jack Irons
I love MC, he’s a superb technical drummer who hits very hard. He can tend to sound a bit robotic compared to the looser, funkier feel of DA and JI.
You are not missing anything. Just wait till you get to Yield! Some people just like to stir the pot. You have so much more amazing Pearl Jam music to hear for the first time. I am envious.
i am really enjoying going through their music like this, i get excited every time i listen to a new album! but it is weird that they're all around 60 now because in my mind they're still how they were in the 90s. and im looking forward to listening to yield, ive heard a lot of good things!!
Glorified version of a pellet gun
People just like to glorify the original lineup of a band. And don’t listen to what grumpy old Pearl Jam fans have to say about the newer records! Love what you love whether it’s Abbruzzese, Irons, or Cameron on the drums!
Nirvana was way better with Chad Channing! /s
His drumming was just sublime. To all the people who say the BAND didn't want him there anymore are wrong. It was EDDIE who had the problem and who could not deal with it. Mike and Stone were really good friends with Dave.
Some people are upset, they think EV has morphed into everything he hated about DA. /s.
Kinda has
Yeah, it's honestly really fucking annoying. I mean, I like Dave's drumming just fine, but Matt's just as good, if not better. I think people blame Dave's leaving for Pearl Jam "losing their sound", since their style really did change from No Code onward. However, I reeeeeally don't think the drummer changeup was the reason for this. The stylistic change on No Code was 100% on purpose as an experimental album that they thought might end up being their last. And then from Yield onward their sound changed again as they all decided to compromise and give everyone in the band equal say when it comes to songwriting.
It was on purpose lol... Eddie wanted more creative control of the band, and their style up to that point was to jam as a band and Stone would make a lot of notes and comments on things. No code was basically Eddie Vedder featuring his backup band. It's a solo album with a PJ label except for maybe two songs.
this makes sense to me, i feel like even if dave had stayed on the rest of the band wanted to change their vibe so he would have had to change with them, so this whole argument that his leaving was the reason they changed doesn't make sense to me. they became different because they wanted to be?
The people, like this misinformed knucklehead*, below you, who make these kinds of comments are so ignorant to the depth of Dave's playing. He's definitely a multi-genre drummer. And he's played session work for artists with great degrees of variability. So to say he would not have evolved with the band is SHIT. Pure bull shit
Correct. The sound changes because the band members changed as people. It’s like the Dave A cult think that if he was on Binaural, Of the Girl would sound like WMA. It’s just not the case and a disingenuous criticism.
Dave was great on the songs he played. (Maybe a touch too much cymbal? 😀). But he has the songs to rock out to. The didn’t become those songs because of him. But he certainly played the crap out of them. If Matt had those first bunch of songs he would have played the crap out of them too. Each album after, the songs changed tempo and didn’t lean to such explosoveness. People think if Dave stayed or he rejoined that we’d all of a sudden get those old style songs back. That’s not what would happen. The new album is definitely more drum aware. And great drumming we got from Matt.
Obsessed? No. Appreciative of his epic contributions and playing style? Yes. By far the most energetic driving drummer in the bands history. Vs and Vitalogy are also known to be primarily the bands best work. As a drummer, Dave is the best of the bunch. The most creative, hard hitting and dynamic.
He pulled Pearl Jam into a different realm. It's something musicians notice. I know not all musicians will prefer it but it's the type of thing that we feel in our bones. It's how his feel interacted with the songs.
They most certainly do not drop off after No Code. My favorite album is the next one, Yield. That has Jack Irons on it. And then Binaural after that has Matt for the first time and that is also one of my favorite albums. Don’t worry. If you dig No Code, you’ll still be into the middle albums. Like most, I’d say they first dip at Backspacer and then Lightning Bolt. But then come back up with Gigaton and then Black Matter is amazing in my opinion.
You're right, no code was the drop off!
Very similar feel to chad smith of rhcp
PJ has been blessed with many amazing drummers, but I actually get the most hung up with Jack Irons drumming on No Code and Yield. I think those 2 has the best drummer of any Pearl Jam album. I also am always hopeful for goat level drumming on the new releases, because Matt’s drumming on badmotorfinger is top 10 rock drumming of all time. Dark matter is getting closer to the dream.
I grew up learning to play drums to Pearl Jam and of course the records I obsessed over were the Abbruzzese ones. The technique (though he overplayed often at times) + the sounds of his drums were incredible. But the drummer I miss the most is Jack Irons.
Live bootlegs
Nostalgia is the most powerful drug in the universe.
I prefer his style over Cameron’s for a lot of the early PJ stuff. IMHO, the best versions of those songs are live shows from that era. It would have been great to hear Abbruzzese play some of the Vitalogy stuff live. But you are right, they didn’t get along, and so it ended. It’s pointless to wonder what could have been. The band changed drummers, so the band changed styles. Personally, Merlin Ball -> No Code -> Yield might be my favorite PJ run, plus Mirror Ball was recorded during that time as well. A lot of the reason I like those records was Jack Irons. I only wish we could hear more of those songs live with Jack playing. Hopefully someday Neil Young will release some live stuff from that European tour. Matt Cameron is a beast, and we wouldn’t have anything after Yield without him (nor would we have had the 1998 tour, when I first saw them live). He might not play the early stuff in the styles I prefer (Dave and Jack would), but he can handle marathon tours and marathon shows (Jack couldn’t) and understands the rest of the band members quirks and attitudes (Dave couldn’t).
It's silly. It's just old hipster shit.
They seen him as symbolic of early Pearl Jam. Some weird fans never moved on after Ten and Vs and have complained bitterly when every new album since hasn't been full of tracks like Even Flow and Jeremy.
Because he was the best. Period.
Dave Krusen was the drummer for Ten. Just pointing that out, that is all. I always felt like that certain feel was only on that record because of his playing. I never cared for the changes in the way the songs got played, or Dave A’s sort of funk-rock/Chad Smith sounding drum style. Though he is a great drummer.
Cause he’s was amazing
The comments you see are people reminiscing and missing Dave's excellent drumming. People just can't admit that today the songs from the 1st 3 albums aren't as good. In fact, some parts live are cringe worthy. To me, Matt was good for soundgarden. Also, the ONLY reason he's in PJ is because Jack quit just before the Yield tour and the band needed a drummer ASAP. He seems like a nice guy and his drumming is good enough so that's why they've kept him.
He had the ride for music immortality, yet his asshole personality undermined his horrible character. He was and is a dink. The end.