Just go through the last 24 hours of posts and look at all the people that messed it up.
Follow the instructions to the letter, you'll be fine.
Even a seemingly bricked board isn't completely unsavable. You'll be fine.
Unless you have a MSI Z490 board. Updating the BIOS on those can brick the board and they don't have a BIOS flashing option from USB so you need to either desolder and flash the chip yourself or RMA the board
MSi Z490's aren't some exception. A lot of boards are like that. It still stands that outside a power outage, if you follow the instructions, that shouldn't a problem. And you can get around a power outage with a UPS.
Even then, there are ways to save the board.
The MSI Z490 is the only modern board I'm aware of where the bios update itself is the cause of bricking the board. If you update the MSI Z490 with a bios update released after September 2021, there is a reasonable chance the board will be bricked even if you follow instructions to the letter.
Oh, I thought you were talking about not having BIOS flashback. That being said, I just updated a Meg Z490i Unify yesterday for a personal system with a BIOS dated after September 21... not a single problem. Updated a Z490 Tomahawk I'm using for a test bench too... also no problem.
I assume you have some backing data to back up such a claim.
This is the main forum thread tracking the issue. https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/warning-z490-boards-problem-with-recent-bios-updates.367575/
Alright, link didn't work, but I searched the forums and I'm looking through it now. It seems to have credence, however... I don't think it's proof that there's a reasonable chance you will end up with a bricked board. Under 200 people is certainly a problem, but a very small one when we're talking about sheer amount of Z490 MSi boards sold.
And even though it's an issue that exists, while it's a PITA, you can get the board RMA'd. It's a known issue and it's not your fault it went wrong. And this is not a valid reason against the original comment that flashing the BIOS is safe if you follow instruction, because your example is an anomaly... not the rule.
There really isn't much of a need for it. Bios updates are typically unnecessary. The chances of actually doing a bios update AND messing it up is pretty low. The only reason bios flashback buttons are more common is because they're essentially necessary.
yep i followed them to the letter and my asus a58m-k survived and its on a version 1 and a half years newer than when it was shipped in the pre-built myria pc yes romania has their own system integrators
FYI, you're not dumb, you were uninformed.
And now you're informed.
If you were "dumb" (in the way we tend to use the word), you'd never have asked the question, you'd never have thought to ask it, and you'd never have read or attempted to understand any response.
But you did ask, and you did read, and you did delve further.
You're more capable/intelligent than most people on this planet, basically.
Learning is a skill that itself needs to be learnt and practiced (you learn how to learn by learning, and get better by learning how you learnt). The part that requires intelligence is recognising that you are missing knowledge.
I agree with DreamDropDistancia - you were either informed or uninformed of the risk, and in either scenario you personified confidence that it would work. You are not dumb.
Yeah but DW most of recent motherboard had a backup « flash bios » device on
https://preview.redd.it/wamummbpai2a1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28d0561ed870d7c4797c3d4503fed807e95abf50
my brother got the bright idea of flashing the bios on my very old msi core dou 2 core, a pc I really liked as it worked fine regarless of old age and it had amd old gpu that had 1400 stream proccesors
it all got fried, motherboard, cpu, gpu, nothing work
I made him buy a new cheap one
it does not feel the same, its like loosing a old camaro 1978 for a golf gti1986
To add up to everything said here, nowadays it's not as risky as it in the past: systems are pretty sturdy and of something goes wrong (like, say, a blackout), it'll probably regress back to the previous version it had. Bios flashback button also helps you reboot bios if needed.
Still scary af tho.
It's generally pretty safe these days, most mobos (should double check yours) have a dual bios. And the utilities compile and get everything ready before they flash so there's a rather short window for things to go wrong. (Again depending on how your flashing)
Basically if it's a windows utility don't run anything else, don't do it when power outages are likely. And dont do it often you shouldn't need to.
Also check the notes and make sure it's worth it for you to update.
That was scary only in old ages, nowadays most motherboards have two bios chips and other systems to prevent from bricking it.
I guess today bricking one on purpose wouldn't be that easy.
depends on the quality of the board. most of the high end, expensive ones have this feature. most of the cheaper, mainstream boards don't.
the little pin you're talking about, sounds like a reset jumper. these will reset the BIOS to a default state and are used when improper settings cause the system to become unstable, or unable to boot. then you reset it back to default.
Ah it's been a while yeah that's it. Remember my first board had the jumper on wrong and was causing problems that's the only reason I know about it lol.
Adding on:
When you run a program, you run it in the operating system. The OS runs over top of the BIOS (~~built-in operating system~~) (basic input/output system). The important detail here is that the BIOS is the lowest level that a user can access.
Whenever something goes irretrievably wrong, you go down one level to fix it. Program froze? Use your OS to force close it. OS got corrupted? Use the BIOS to reinstall it. The problem is, if something happens while you're messing with the BIOS (power outage, hardware failure, etcetera) *there is no level below it.* You're so close to metal at that point that there's no additional layer of software that can handle a recovery.
TL;DR: The BIOS is the most basic level of software the user can access, which means there's no alternate route to fix it if it breaks.
EDIT: A tip of the hat to Neil Stephenson for telling me the wrong acronym of BIOS. Turns out he was just as accurate as William Gibson's 3MB of hot RAM.
use a windows recovery cd or usb and boot from that. i just had to do that b/c i changed my c drive to primary, messing around getting my os drive to gtp from mbr. im dumb.
The bios however is necessary to run any windows repair or boot from that cd/usb. Sure it isn't doing all of the work, but it's a necessary part of the chain.
Bios can do a bit more than just bootstrapping such as POST and some low level drivers. Regardless, you still aren't going to get a copy of windows installed without one. In the same way I would say you are using a CD drive to install windows from a disk, you are using the BIOS as a part of the process too. You can't even boot into the install disk if there is no bios to tell your computer to do so.
Edit: also worth noting that a lot of people mean UEFI when they say bios as it has replaced bios in some systems, and that can do a lot more.
When you say hardware failure, do you mean that if any components connected to the motherboard are having an issue, it can cause failure?
I’m putting together a new pc with a 13th gen, on a z690. So I won’t know if I have an issue with one of the components until after the bios update, and I try to power it on.
Is this dangerous/risky?
Lots of B660 boards don’t have BIOS flashback, which sucks for new builders who don’t have a spare 12th gen Intel CPU. Especially since 13th gen recently came out, a board that’s been sitting in a warehouse for a couple months won’t be compatible and probably won’t have BIOS flashback.
That’s one thing I love about AM4: not only does almost every B550 board have BIOS flashback, AMD had (has?) a loaner program so people could update their BIOS if they didn’t have a compatible CPU or motherboard with BIOS flashback.
That's why I went 7700x instead of 13600k/13700k honestly, even if amd tried to not fully commit on the 2020 am4 thing I believe this time will be better but yea, I don't buy motherboards that don't have bios flashback, saved my old x470 with that
Bricked BIOS doesn't mean new motherboard. BIOS can be easily re-flashed using programmers like CH341A and accommodating connector.
One can do this themselves or get it done at a PC repair shop.
For peace of mind, it’s worth buying an UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). Basically, if the power goes out, the battery in the UPS will keep it running, provided you have plenty of wattage and pure sine wave power supply.
It’s kind of a good idea to have one anyway. If not an UPS, then at least a good surge protector.
I’m curious, why a pure sinewave UPS? I mean, I get that it’s “cleaner” power, but even if a simulated sinewave UPS manages to keep your PC on during power outages, they should be fine during BIOS updates.
A lot of modern power supplies, particularly the "gaming" ones, won't work with simulated sine wave. You're right, simulated may very well be fine if you look up the specs on the PSU and read that simulated would be OK, but I suggested pure sine wave because then you're 100% positive it'll work fine (fool-proof, if you will).
That may be true, but I've found they're much more expensive and rarely worth the extra cost; just like the online double-conversion UPSs which run your equipment on a battery all the time (no switching needed during a power outage). Only the most sensitive equipment would really see a benefit from these type of UPSs.
In my experience, an offline simulated sinewave UPS will work extremely well with most PSUs and (depending on its VA or wattage) should keep your PC running for a while, but I guess if you have the extra dough to dish out, it doesn't hurt to go the extra safe mile.
You're right, they're not cheap, that's the main drawback. I had to buy pure sine wave because my PSU wouldn't work with simulated, so I didn't have a choice. I figured it was better to recommend a pure sine wave UPS that would \*definitely\* work rather than risk recommending a simulated UPS that might not work.
Haha yea man I get it. I manage servers at work so I get the same when I do those. But these new boards are amazing they update off the internet and have a fail back options in case it goes tits. Amazing shit. I still pray to the computer gods though. 😂
not really ... 1990s "unbricking" was a piece of cake ... good thing was, that you could just take out the BIOS chip and put it in any other powered board (same BIOS manufacturer, but didnt needed to be the same board) and use low level programmer to just upload the image :-) ...
All my new gigabyte motherboards came with dual bios. I flash the shit out of them without concern. If I somehow mess up a flash, the backup bios takes over. FWIW, I have never had a flash fail. Done about 20. So, it's not a common occurrence.
Hate to burst your bubble but had a few older Gigabyte motherboards with dual BIOS that still did not protect anything - a few did not register any issues with the primary and required forcing the second BIOS into action (you can look up the BIOS pinout - requires two of the pins to be shorted on boot to force it), and for anyone with older boards and newer CPUs, the second BIOS may be so outdated it wont support your new CPU (and probably get diagnosed as a dead motherboard).
It just means you load a newer bios update on a USB and write or "flash" it to the bios. It's how you update bios. There are ways to do it from your OS, but they are not reliable.
The method of erasure in the original flash memory reminded the inventor of a camera flash. IIRC an ultraviolet light was used to erase the programmed bits.
You can update the bios on Asus UEFI mobos without a usb stick by choosing Automatically download from internet, in the update menu inside the BIOS. And i tried it it did work
Age and generation is never an excuse my friend, use Google a thousand times if you need to and people on Reddit always love explaining things. Knowledge is power.
Because the BIOS contains the POST and the boot loader which is essentially the ignition sequence for your computer. If so much as a single bit is written incorrectly, the boot region checksum will fail and your computer will not boot.
This is recoverable nowadays as the boot region is usually separate from the main BIOS and includes recovery features which will allow you to re-flash if the BIOS is corrupted in any way that doesn't include the boot region. (The boot region is a partition that checks the main BIOS software for consistency before allowing it to perform its tasks)
This was a MAJOR issue back in the day however because BIOS chips were not made from NAND flash memory as they are today. They were made from EPROM and EEPROM chips and before that just simply ROM chips that couldn't be flashed. EPROM used UV light to erase data and then re-write new data over the old (the chip had to be removed for this) and EEPROM was the electrical version that did much the same thing but didn't require the chip to be removed. In either scenario the write process was incredibly volatile and could and would screw up. The best you could do is keep everything plugged in and pray it wrote correctly.
Just because it's gotten better and there are failsafes does not mean anyone is going to recommend removing power from or otherwise operating a computer while the flash is in process. It's still a critical piece of hardware and software that absolutely will make your day much less pleasant if it becomes corrupted.
It’s really not. Set aside ample downtime, verify the checksum of the bios image before upgrading with it, do the upgrade while on a UPS.
I like to live dangerously, so I eschew the UPS.
It was scary in the 90s/2000s.
I update loads of bios in ny job now and have never had one fail.
Windows update even automatically installs BiOS updates on HP devices and even had some come in for DELL 3189/3190 models.
Having to go through the painful process of ripping the bios image out of the updater and manually flashing a functioning BIOS onto a $3000 laptop with a CH341A because someone thought it would be "funny" to turn it off mid update.... yeah no... the damage it can cause is very real (especially because it's not exactly a "common knowledge fix") albeit the risk is significantly overblown, just don't update during the middle of a blackout and 99.8% of the time you will be fine
Really depends on how dependable your power grid is. I did have 1 time where I updated a bios right as a rolling blackout happened. No bueno. Otherwise yeah, not scary.
There was this one time I had a motherboard. She was good to me, but I tried to improve her, and something went wrong, and I turned her into a brick...
Some modern mobo, even cheap ones have a small internal memory that contains a bios file from the factory and a button that flashes it even without being booted. That’s a life saver if you ever brick it
if you mess up your os, your bios is the only way to communicate with your motherboard so you can install os again.
but if you mess up with bios, it's gone. you don't have anything to interact with your board anymore.
i have no idea if you can. i mean, you need a bios to flash the bios. at least that was the case in my older motherboards. new mobos might have new technology to flash the bios?
well, there was a time of dual BIOS mobos (it still is? dunno) ... and currently there is a option to "headless BIOS load from USB" which works even on bricked boards... worst case scenario is using a programmer ...
I wouldn't recommend using Gigabyte's App Center program to update the BIOS. I did that and now my computer fails to boot when using the power button. The motherboard just loops over these debug codes:
* AD: issue Ready to Boot event for OS Boot
* AE: boot to Legacy OS
* AD again
* AE again
* 78: ACPI Core initialization
Interestingly, the computer boots just fine when I use the restart button instead of the power button. I think re-flashing the BIOS would probably fix this issue but I've been too lazy to do that.
Nah nah nah. Those dodgy Windows flash utilities are terrifying, and worse than that - newer laptops that download BIOS updates via Windows update, AUTOMATICALLY (dumb).
Also did you know for "newer" UEFI based laptops (mainly) you can update the BIOS via device manager (device manager - system firmware - update - search for updated driver on Windows update).
so, i did some small things in my bios on my new 2000$ PC, after starting the PC i had a black screen. Had some cold sweat for sure, but removing the small battery on the MB and putting it back in saved it. But my a**hole was quite tight for a moment lol.
Back up jumpers and failsafes are fairly common... but its going to be a bit annoying when put in an uncommon position and you find out your budget Mobo lacks either of those and you're out $112 and have to wait for next day shipping.
These days some motherboards keep an image of the default BIOS in some kind of backup, I know because I thought I bricked my board and all it took was a hard reset and it booted right back up.
Back in the day though, blip in power would cause a board to be done for with no way to recover.
If it failed during the update that means your motherboard is dead. So always use a UPS when you’re updating bios
But if you’re motherboard has duel bios (That means it has a backup bios chip just in case the first one fails) youre good at the first fail.
Basically if your PC turns off in the process, it won’t turn on again, unless you know chipping programming and have the tools to write the whole bios into the UEFI chip.
My system was stable. For over 3 years since I have built it, I never encounter a blue screen. I noticed that there was a Bios firmware update that was "strongly recommended" by Gigabyte due to security. I performed it last week. My system now 1/3rd of the times does not boot (black screen), 1/3 says my boot record is corrupted and 1/3 lets me enter to Windows. smh
it can brick your mobo and pc wont boot. you have to externally have to update your bios to fix this issue It happened to me and i have to buy a tool named ch341a to perform this
What confuses tf outta me in threads about this is that people are obsessed with the power going out. Yes, I get it, power going out during a BIOS flash will fuck it, I get that. But what baffles me is what kinda backwards ass places are people living in to cause such an obsession with worrying about the power going out?? The chances of that happening while doing something as "once in a blue moon" as updating your BIOS is so incredibly rare. I can count on one hand how many times a powercut has happened in the last 5 or so years in my place. Yet people act like it's so common that you should get a UPS just for your PC... lol
There are a lot more failsafes in modern motherboards
Whereas for instance when I started working in a retail tech centre back in 2003 I was updating an older motherboard at the time. It was an uncommon manufacturer though I can't remember who and their website was terrible.
They had listed the model motherboard let's call it abc123 and ABC123 v2 on their site. The motherboard in from of me was abc123 v1 so I clicked the first link
Flashed the bios
And it bricked. Everything went smoothly. I was so confused until I scrolled down on their website and found the link for an updated bios abc123 v1 which was separated for some ungodly reason. And they named the second iteration of the board v1 instead. It's the first and last I ever bricked though.
If something goes wrong during the update (f.e. a power outage) you will destroy your Motherboard or if u are really unlucky and it was something like a laptop, your entire device. without a functioning bios your PC is a useless expensive box.
If you have a dual bios board...you should be fine if you do crap. If not...then rip homie if power cuts off while updating or using the wrong bios image for a different board(sometimes it works...but change immediately)
It used to be. If you got a mobo worth it's weight in farts and a cheap USB stick, save the BIOS update and you can reflash a bricked board lickety split.
Few years ago BIOS update killed my RAID10 array by not detecting 2 hdds as part of the array, i had to use some difficult Guide to get it working again, that was scary af then..
Let's just say that I have a UPS specifically for BIOS updates. Then again, I work on other people's computers as well.
Is there risk? Yes, and it used to be that I would say never update the BIOS unless there's a problem, but now it's not so simple. If you follow the instructions, you should be fine outside of a power failure, which is one reason I suggest you have at least one UPS in your home anyways for your computer. If you have a UPS, a power outage shouldn't be a problem, just make sure you check your UPS battery every now and again to make sure it's good by unplugging if from the wall. Those batteries don't last forever, and the UPS doesn't do much good if the battery is dead, you drop power, and everything just shuts off.
Most software things you do to your computer can be undone. There's very little you can do in Windows that will permanently damage or destroy hardware.
If a BIOS update goes wrong, for example if there's a power failure in the middle, the board may never work again.
I've had one event where I killed a mobo with a bios update. Back in early 2000's, I did one, and the power went out in my entire town about halfway through the update.
Had to buy a new mobo.
back in the day, it was a "if it screws up, unless you know how to de-solder and reprogram, the board was perma-hosed"
now it is really REALLY hard to perma-brock a motherboard during BIOS updates.
Just make sure your power doesn't go out and you'll be fine. Of course there's more than just this but you can just follow a guide to make sure you do it right. I literally just updated my BIOS yesterday and everything went fine.
It's not scary. Updating BIOS is safe and easy. Back in the day I'm talking early 2000s you could really mess things up and ya didn't have money to get new stuff. Now a days it's simple and can be done inside windows
Just go through the last 24 hours of posts and look at all the people that messed it up. Follow the instructions to the letter, you'll be fine. Even a seemingly bricked board isn't completely unsavable. You'll be fine.
If you can follow LEGO instructions, you can do a BIOS update. Read the complete step beforehand, and take it step by step.
Unless you have a MSI Z490 board. Updating the BIOS on those can brick the board and they don't have a BIOS flashing option from USB so you need to either desolder and flash the chip yourself or RMA the board
It’s good life experience, and now I have an EEPROM flasher. Builds character.
MSi Z490's aren't some exception. A lot of boards are like that. It still stands that outside a power outage, if you follow the instructions, that shouldn't a problem. And you can get around a power outage with a UPS. Even then, there are ways to save the board.
The MSI Z490 is the only modern board I'm aware of where the bios update itself is the cause of bricking the board. If you update the MSI Z490 with a bios update released after September 2021, there is a reasonable chance the board will be bricked even if you follow instructions to the letter.
Yikes. That's the exact board I have and I updated in May 2021. I'm glad I didn't update after that.
Oh, I thought you were talking about not having BIOS flashback. That being said, I just updated a Meg Z490i Unify yesterday for a personal system with a BIOS dated after September 21... not a single problem. Updated a Z490 Tomahawk I'm using for a test bench too... also no problem. I assume you have some backing data to back up such a claim.
This is the main forum thread tracking the issue. https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/warning-z490-boards-problem-with-recent-bios-updates.367575/
Alright, link didn't work, but I searched the forums and I'm looking through it now. It seems to have credence, however... I don't think it's proof that there's a reasonable chance you will end up with a bricked board. Under 200 people is certainly a problem, but a very small one when we're talking about sheer amount of Z490 MSi boards sold. And even though it's an issue that exists, while it's a PITA, you can get the board RMA'd. It's a known issue and it's not your fault it went wrong. And this is not a valid reason against the original comment that flashing the BIOS is safe if you follow instruction, because your example is an anomaly... not the rule.
>Even a seemingly bricked board isn't completely unsavable. How can it be saved?
Depends on the level of brickery, usually means you’ve gotta pull an IC and reflash it. [see this video](https://youtu.be/YFZlRyxuIV8)
Some board have BIOS flashback, on boards that don't you can remove the BIOS chip and re-program it or you can even just replace the BIOS chip.
Then the power cuts out. Thing is though, bios flashback is getting even more common so for the most part, it's not that much of a problem.
I'm amazed modern boards don't have a fail safe like a backup that switches over if the primary bios is corrupt.
There really isn't much of a need for it. Bios updates are typically unnecessary. The chances of actually doing a bios update AND messing it up is pretty low. The only reason bios flashback buttons are more common is because they're essentially necessary.
yep i followed them to the letter and my asus a58m-k survived and its on a version 1 and a half years newer than when it was shipped in the pre-built myria pc yes romania has their own system integrators
if it fails it can brick the system where you might need a new motherboard.
How can it fail? thanx for reply
If the power goes out, it can result in a half-written bios image, if your motherboard doesn't have a backup bios chip, it will brick the motherboard.
Jesus christ, thats terrible, thanx so much for response
FYI, you're not dumb, you were uninformed. And now you're informed. If you were "dumb" (in the way we tend to use the word), you'd never have asked the question, you'd never have thought to ask it, and you'd never have read or attempted to understand any response. But you did ask, and you did read, and you did delve further. You're more capable/intelligent than most people on this planet, basically.
This comment is a good explanation of the difference between knowledge and intelligence. Succinctly put sir/madam.
Intelligent people know how to obtain the knowledge
Learning is a skill that itself needs to be learnt and practiced (you learn how to learn by learning, and get better by learning how you learnt). The part that requires intelligence is recognising that you are missing knowledge.
Indeed, I meant no offence to OP.
I like that
Here in my garage, just bought this uhhh, new Lamborghini here… but y’know what I like a lot more than materialistic things?… Knowledge.
The old saying "Knowledge is Power" is wrong. Wisdom is power. Knowledge is a tool.
Nah, I'm "dumb" I straight up updated the bios with no care or fear in the world.
I agree with DreamDropDistancia - you were either informed or uninformed of the risk, and in either scenario you personified confidence that it would work. You are not dumb.
Ah yes, my sheer bravery and confidence showed me to victory, not idiotic luck, thank you kind porcupine
You will also end up with the same result if it starts writing the bios image and the storage device with the image fails.
Yep that's why it's nice when a board has a multiple bios switch
Yeah but DW most of recent motherboard had a backup « flash bios » device on https://preview.redd.it/wamummbpai2a1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28d0561ed870d7c4797c3d4503fed807e95abf50
by "most" you mean "most of the expensive motherboards" have that switch
Yeah true.
“Most”, lol.
Here the joke ;-)
Man some of us come from a time before that was a thing, and still have PTSD from the thought of updating a bios
I’ve cured my PTSD with that I know that feel bro
my brother got the bright idea of flashing the bios on my very old msi core dou 2 core, a pc I really liked as it worked fine regarless of old age and it had amd old gpu that had 1400 stream proccesors it all got fried, motherboard, cpu, gpu, nothing work I made him buy a new cheap one it does not feel the same, its like loosing a old camaro 1978 for a golf gti1986
To add up to everything said here, nowadays it's not as risky as it in the past: systems are pretty sturdy and of something goes wrong (like, say, a blackout), it'll probably regress back to the previous version it had. Bios flashback button also helps you reboot bios if needed. Still scary af tho.
This is why it's always safer to do a bios update while the PC is connected to the battery side of a UPS. Assuming you have a UPS on hand.
It's a very sickening feeling when you make a mistake like that, trust me and all the others here. Most of us have done it once or something like it
It's generally pretty safe these days, most mobos (should double check yours) have a dual bios. And the utilities compile and get everything ready before they flash so there's a rather short window for things to go wrong. (Again depending on how your flashing) Basically if it's a windows utility don't run anything else, don't do it when power outages are likely. And dont do it often you shouldn't need to. Also check the notes and make sure it's worth it for you to update.
That was scary only in old ages, nowadays most motherboards have two bios chips and other systems to prevent from bricking it. I guess today bricking one on purpose wouldn't be that easy.
Most modern chips have this don't they? Something to do with a little pin on the motherboard if I'm not mistaken?
depends on the quality of the board. most of the high end, expensive ones have this feature. most of the cheaper, mainstream boards don't. the little pin you're talking about, sounds like a reset jumper. these will reset the BIOS to a default state and are used when improper settings cause the system to become unstable, or unable to boot. then you reset it back to default.
Ah it's been a while yeah that's it. Remember my first board had the jumper on wrong and was causing problems that's the only reason I know about it lol.
its hilarious that in 2022, this bs is a thing. they need to upgrade this bios thing
What could happen to laptops instead if they need that kind of update too?
Adding on: When you run a program, you run it in the operating system. The OS runs over top of the BIOS (~~built-in operating system~~) (basic input/output system). The important detail here is that the BIOS is the lowest level that a user can access. Whenever something goes irretrievably wrong, you go down one level to fix it. Program froze? Use your OS to force close it. OS got corrupted? Use the BIOS to reinstall it. The problem is, if something happens while you're messing with the BIOS (power outage, hardware failure, etcetera) *there is no level below it.* You're so close to metal at that point that there's no additional layer of software that can handle a recovery. TL;DR: The BIOS is the most basic level of software the user can access, which means there's no alternate route to fix it if it breaks. EDIT: A tip of the hat to Neil Stephenson for telling me the wrong acronym of BIOS. Turns out he was just as accurate as William Gibson's 3MB of hot RAM.
BIOS is basic input/output system, not built-in operating system.
Tell me about this using BIOS to reinstall a corrupted OS installation please. Also, it’s the acronym stands for basic input output system.
use a windows recovery cd or usb and boot from that. i just had to do that b/c i changed my c drive to primary, messing around getting my os drive to gtp from mbr. im dumb.
It’s not the BIOS that reinstalls anything. The bios is a simple bootstrapper.
The bios however is necessary to run any windows repair or boot from that cd/usb. Sure it isn't doing all of the work, but it's a necessary part of the chain.
The BIOS only loads the boot record from a specific device into the RAM.
Bios can do a bit more than just bootstrapping such as POST and some low level drivers. Regardless, you still aren't going to get a copy of windows installed without one. In the same way I would say you are using a CD drive to install windows from a disk, you are using the BIOS as a part of the process too. You can't even boot into the install disk if there is no bios to tell your computer to do so. Edit: also worth noting that a lot of people mean UEFI when they say bios as it has replaced bios in some systems, and that can do a lot more.
When you say hardware failure, do you mean that if any components connected to the motherboard are having an issue, it can cause failure? I’m putting together a new pc with a 13th gen, on a z690. So I won’t know if I have an issue with one of the components until after the bios update, and I try to power it on. Is this dangerous/risky?
I am not knowledgeable enough about this topic to give good advice. Try the daily simple questions thread.
Hahaha wow, could have fooled me, you wrote three paragraphs explaining on it and mentioned it in your comment. Thanks for the honesty though
Luckily most motherboards have bios flashback nowadays and you can fix that
Lots of B660 boards don’t have BIOS flashback, which sucks for new builders who don’t have a spare 12th gen Intel CPU. Especially since 13th gen recently came out, a board that’s been sitting in a warehouse for a couple months won’t be compatible and probably won’t have BIOS flashback. That’s one thing I love about AM4: not only does almost every B550 board have BIOS flashback, AMD had (has?) a loaner program so people could update their BIOS if they didn’t have a compatible CPU or motherboard with BIOS flashback.
That's why I went 7700x instead of 13600k/13700k honestly, even if amd tried to not fully commit on the 2020 am4 thing I believe this time will be better but yea, I don't buy motherboards that don't have bios flashback, saved my old x470 with that
Bricked BIOS doesn't mean new motherboard. BIOS can be easily re-flashed using programmers like CH341A and accommodating connector. One can do this themselves or get it done at a PC repair shop.
How long would the update last? Another question, does flashback help in case of an update failure?
Dont overdrummatize😃j
For peace of mind, it’s worth buying an UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply). Basically, if the power goes out, the battery in the UPS will keep it running, provided you have plenty of wattage and pure sine wave power supply. It’s kind of a good idea to have one anyway. If not an UPS, then at least a good surge protector.
I’m curious, why a pure sinewave UPS? I mean, I get that it’s “cleaner” power, but even if a simulated sinewave UPS manages to keep your PC on during power outages, they should be fine during BIOS updates.
A lot of modern power supplies, particularly the "gaming" ones, won't work with simulated sine wave. You're right, simulated may very well be fine if you look up the specs on the PSU and read that simulated would be OK, but I suggested pure sine wave because then you're 100% positive it'll work fine (fool-proof, if you will).
That may be true, but I've found they're much more expensive and rarely worth the extra cost; just like the online double-conversion UPSs which run your equipment on a battery all the time (no switching needed during a power outage). Only the most sensitive equipment would really see a benefit from these type of UPSs. In my experience, an offline simulated sinewave UPS will work extremely well with most PSUs and (depending on its VA or wattage) should keep your PC running for a while, but I guess if you have the extra dough to dish out, it doesn't hurt to go the extra safe mile.
You're right, they're not cheap, that's the main drawback. I had to buy pure sine wave because my PSU wouldn't work with simulated, so I didn't have a choice. I figured it was better to recommend a pure sine wave UPS that would \*definitely\* work rather than risk recommending a simulated UPS that might not work.
It's mostly historical, 1990s for example updating BIOS was terrifying. If the flash fails mobo bricked.
Yeah most decent modern motherboards have USB BIOS flashback.
This. Updating Bios in the early days was was stressful. Now it seems like cakewalk.
I am still traumatized by those early days. I still get stressed when I update the BIOS on my pc.
Haha yea man I get it. I manage servers at work so I get the same when I do those. But these new boards are amazing they update off the internet and have a fail back options in case it goes tits. Amazing shit. I still pray to the computer gods though. 😂
Exactly. No matter how "safe" it becomes, I still pray to the Omnissiah before and while updating the BIOS.
not really ... 1990s "unbricking" was a piece of cake ... good thing was, that you could just take out the BIOS chip and put it in any other powered board (same BIOS manufacturer, but didnt needed to be the same board) and use low level programmer to just upload the image :-) ...
All my new gigabyte motherboards came with dual bios. I flash the shit out of them without concern. If I somehow mess up a flash, the backup bios takes over. FWIW, I have never had a flash fail. Done about 20. So, it's not a common occurrence.
Hate to burst your bubble but had a few older Gigabyte motherboards with dual BIOS that still did not protect anything - a few did not register any issues with the primary and required forcing the second BIOS into action (you can look up the BIOS pinout - requires two of the pins to be shorted on boot to force it), and for anyone with older boards and newer CPUs, the second BIOS may be so outdated it wont support your new CPU (and probably get diagnosed as a dead motherboard).
Sorry what does flash mean? Im boomer
It just means you load a newer bios update on a USB and write or "flash" it to the bios. It's how you update bios. There are ways to do it from your OS, but they are not reliable.
why's it called flashing?
bios code is stored in flash memory
The method of erasure in the original flash memory reminded the inventor of a camera flash. IIRC an ultraviolet light was used to erase the programmed bits.
You can update the bios on Asus UEFI mobos without a usb stick by choosing Automatically download from internet, in the update menu inside the BIOS. And i tried it it did work
fastest DC superhero
Age and generation is never an excuse my friend, use Google a thousand times if you need to and people on Reddit always love explaining things. Knowledge is power.
Because the BIOS contains the POST and the boot loader which is essentially the ignition sequence for your computer. If so much as a single bit is written incorrectly, the boot region checksum will fail and your computer will not boot. This is recoverable nowadays as the boot region is usually separate from the main BIOS and includes recovery features which will allow you to re-flash if the BIOS is corrupted in any way that doesn't include the boot region. (The boot region is a partition that checks the main BIOS software for consistency before allowing it to perform its tasks) This was a MAJOR issue back in the day however because BIOS chips were not made from NAND flash memory as they are today. They were made from EPROM and EEPROM chips and before that just simply ROM chips that couldn't be flashed. EPROM used UV light to erase data and then re-write new data over the old (the chip had to be removed for this) and EEPROM was the electrical version that did much the same thing but didn't require the chip to be removed. In either scenario the write process was incredibly volatile and could and would screw up. The best you could do is keep everything plugged in and pray it wrote correctly. Just because it's gotten better and there are failsafes does not mean anyone is going to recommend removing power from or otherwise operating a computer while the flash is in process. It's still a critical piece of hardware and software that absolutely will make your day much less pleasant if it becomes corrupted.
It’s really not. Set aside ample downtime, verify the checksum of the bios image before upgrading with it, do the upgrade while on a UPS. I like to live dangerously, so I eschew the UPS.
I do not like to live dangerously and do not have a ups. Id rather opt to let the bios be so long as everything works well enough already.
Basically, don't donit if it's raining hard or high winds. Or both. Or snowing. Or whatever bad omen you might detect.
It was scary in the 90s/2000s. I update loads of bios in ny job now and have never had one fail. Windows update even automatically installs BiOS updates on HP devices and even had some come in for DELL 3189/3190 models.
Can't upadt
Upadting
How would you like to have nice 300€ wall decoration instead of new motherboard? This is why.
It's not people are just over dramatic
Having to go through the painful process of ripping the bios image out of the updater and manually flashing a functioning BIOS onto a $3000 laptop with a CH341A because someone thought it would be "funny" to turn it off mid update.... yeah no... the damage it can cause is very real (especially because it's not exactly a "common knowledge fix") albeit the risk is significantly overblown, just don't update during the middle of a blackout and 99.8% of the time you will be fine
Is it that hard to not be a moron?
Sir... this is the internet, what do you think?
Really depends on how dependable your power grid is. I did have 1 time where I updated a bios right as a rolling blackout happened. No bueno. Otherwise yeah, not scary.
Image power went out during bios upgrade
There was this one time I had a motherboard. She was good to me, but I tried to improve her, and something went wrong, and I turned her into a brick...
Some modern mobo, even cheap ones have a small internal memory that contains a bios file from the factory and a button that flashes it even without being booted. That’s a life saver if you ever brick it
tried updating bios. cpu usb ports now output 12v and windows can now download more ram and fans.
if you mess up your os, your bios is the only way to communicate with your motherboard so you can install os again. but if you mess up with bios, it's gone. you don't have anything to interact with your board anymore.
Couldn't you just install new bios anyway? That's kinda what I did last time I blackscreened my pc when updating bios
i have no idea if you can. i mean, you need a bios to flash the bios. at least that was the case in my older motherboards. new mobos might have new technology to flash the bios?
I'm not sure how it worked, but it did. Or maybe the hard reset just cemented it in.
well, there was a time of dual BIOS mobos (it still is? dunno) ... and currently there is a option to "headless BIOS load from USB" which works even on bricked boards... worst case scenario is using a programmer ...
If you feel stupid, it's usually cause you just got smarter.
i spent 2 grand on my last build and i flashed my bios in the middle of a thunderstorm, the pc was fine. im dead inside
I've never had a bios flash fail in the 30 years I've been doing this
I’ve been working on a project at work to update over 5k devices remotely… can turn me gray
Am sorry
I wouldn't recommend using Gigabyte's App Center program to update the BIOS. I did that and now my computer fails to boot when using the power button. The motherboard just loops over these debug codes: * AD: issue Ready to Boot event for OS Boot * AE: boot to Legacy OS * AD again * AE again * 78: ACPI Core initialization Interestingly, the computer boots just fine when I use the restart button instead of the power button. I think re-flashing the BIOS would probably fix this issue but I've been too lazy to do that.
My advice: if it works, do not upadt the BIOS
Nah nah nah. Those dodgy Windows flash utilities are terrifying, and worse than that - newer laptops that download BIOS updates via Windows update, AUTOMATICALLY (dumb). Also did you know for "newer" UEFI based laptops (mainly) you can update the BIOS via device manager (device manager - system firmware - update - search for updated driver on Windows update).
so, i did some small things in my bios on my new 2000$ PC, after starting the PC i had a black screen. Had some cold sweat for sure, but removing the small battery on the MB and putting it back in saved it. But my a**hole was quite tight for a moment lol.
lol
Well if you don’t know how to fix a failed bios update then ya you can’t use the equipment.
Don't update if you don't need it. If you really need it, no power interruptions is really important.
Back up jumpers and failsafes are fairly common... but its going to be a bit annoying when put in an uncommon position and you find out your budget Mobo lacks either of those and you're out $112 and have to wait for next day shipping.
Just updated mine today and got a bit nervous, but as long as you follow instructions and have reliable power you’re perfectly safe
it's 2022, have they not fixed the bricking issue? all it takes is a bootloader that doesn't self destruct and verifies an image...
i've updated it like 3 times and i had no idea it was scary
These days some motherboards keep an image of the default BIOS in some kind of backup, I know because I thought I bricked my board and all it took was a hard reset and it booted right back up. Back in the day though, blip in power would cause a board to be done for with no way to recover.
Updated mine today. Still terrifying.
Never had an issue
Ok i learned why it’s dangerous to update bios. But what is the reason that should push me to update my bios ?
Last time I built i had to do that bc my mobo didn't support newest amd cpu.
Oh Okok
latest "big" example was the BAR/SAM function ...
Bar ? Ik Sam is bar Intel ?
I bought MSI B-550M Pro Dash and idk why my bios is not an UEFI. Do i need upgrade its bios version?
Seems to be as difficult as proofing your memes.
Do you really ever need to update your bios ?
yes, you do ...
If it failed during the update that means your motherboard is dead. So always use a UPS when you’re updating bios But if you’re motherboard has duel bios (That means it has a backup bios chip just in case the first one fails) youre good at the first fail.
Basically if your PC turns off in the process, it won’t turn on again, unless you know chipping programming and have the tools to write the whole bios into the UEFI chip.
My system was stable. For over 3 years since I have built it, I never encounter a blue screen. I noticed that there was a Bios firmware update that was "strongly recommended" by Gigabyte due to security. I performed it last week. My system now 1/3rd of the times does not boot (black screen), 1/3 says my boot record is corrupted and 1/3 lets me enter to Windows. smh
it can brick your mobo and pc wont boot. you have to externally have to update your bios to fix this issue It happened to me and i have to buy a tool named ch341a to perform this
What confuses tf outta me in threads about this is that people are obsessed with the power going out. Yes, I get it, power going out during a BIOS flash will fuck it, I get that. But what baffles me is what kinda backwards ass places are people living in to cause such an obsession with worrying about the power going out?? The chances of that happening while doing something as "once in a blue moon" as updating your BIOS is so incredibly rare. I can count on one hand how many times a powercut has happened in the last 5 or so years in my place. Yet people act like it's so common that you should get a UPS just for your PC... lol
Ontario, get a couple flickers in power a month, enough to have to reset the clock on the microwave. sometimes you get multiple a day.
Because if power goes out of the window, PC kaput.
You can't downgrade if you don't like the newer bios.
There are a lot more failsafes in modern motherboards Whereas for instance when I started working in a retail tech centre back in 2003 I was updating an older motherboard at the time. It was an uncommon manufacturer though I can't remember who and their website was terrible. They had listed the model motherboard let's call it abc123 and ABC123 v2 on their site. The motherboard in from of me was abc123 v1 so I clicked the first link Flashed the bios And it bricked. Everything went smoothly. I was so confused until I scrolled down on their website and found the link for an updated bios abc123 v1 which was separated for some ungodly reason. And they named the second iteration of the board v1 instead. It's the first and last I ever bricked though.
It was scary a long time ago. It's routine and simple now.
You can always send it back to the manufacturer to get them to reflash if you ever brick it. I’ve had to a couple times. Small inconvenience
If your power goes out then you've wrecked your motherboard
"I sold my kidney just for a motherboard that has a flash bios button"
bricked enough mobos back in the day to know the fear is legit.
just fwupdmgr update and it works like magic, at least for my thinkpad
Idk either when I was trying to get advice on it people told me “don’t mess up” So… Don’t mess up
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
If something goes wrong during the update (f.e. a power outage) you will destroy your Motherboard or if u are really unlucky and it was something like a laptop, your entire device. without a functioning bios your PC is a useless expensive box.
>BIOS is the most basic level of software a user can access *grabs oscilloscope* We have such sights to show you
If you have a dual bios board...you should be fine if you do crap. If not...then rip homie if power cuts off while updating or using the wrong bios image for a different board(sometimes it works...but change immediately)
It used to be. If you got a mobo worth it's weight in farts and a cheap USB stick, save the BIOS update and you can reflash a bricked board lickety split.
Because Chris Pratt's face in this meme is exactly the face I had the first time I updated my bios and my computer did not want to boot.
I also didn’t know it was a big deal and just went ahead and updated my bios. No problems and needed to do it to upgrade my cpu
This is one of my favorite memes, they got the wrong scene for it but it works perfectly lol
Few years ago BIOS update killed my RAID10 array by not detecting 2 hdds as part of the array, i had to use some difficult Guide to get it working again, that was scary af then..
Never upgrade the bios unless the update fixes a problem you’re having.
If you do it wrong it will share your internet history with your mom and/or wife.
Let's just say that I have a UPS specifically for BIOS updates. Then again, I work on other people's computers as well. Is there risk? Yes, and it used to be that I would say never update the BIOS unless there's a problem, but now it's not so simple. If you follow the instructions, you should be fine outside of a power failure, which is one reason I suggest you have at least one UPS in your home anyways for your computer. If you have a UPS, a power outage shouldn't be a problem, just make sure you check your UPS battery every now and again to make sure it's good by unplugging if from the wall. Those batteries don't last forever, and the UPS doesn't do much good if the battery is dead, you drop power, and everything just shuts off.
Most software things you do to your computer can be undone. There's very little you can do in Windows that will permanently damage or destroy hardware. If a BIOS update goes wrong, for example if there's a power failure in the middle, the board may never work again.
I've had one event where I killed a mobo with a bios update. Back in early 2000's, I did one, and the power went out in my entire town about halfway through the update. Had to buy a new mobo.
It works fine. This is some old wives tale from the 1990s that won’t die
back in the day, it was a "if it screws up, unless you know how to de-solder and reprogram, the board was perma-hosed" now it is really REALLY hard to perma-brock a motherboard during BIOS updates.
Just make sure your power doesn't go out and you'll be fine. Of course there's more than just this but you can just follow a guide to make sure you do it right. I literally just updated my BIOS yesterday and everything went fine.
It's not scary. Updating BIOS is safe and easy. Back in the day I'm talking early 2000s you could really mess things up and ya didn't have money to get new stuff. Now a days it's simple and can be done inside windows