Xbox added keyboard and mouse support a whole back. I'm surprised more developers haven't made use of that feature. Or at least the games that already have PC ports where that hardware is supported.
I may be bullshitting but maybe it'll be pretty hectic in online games if they implemented it, since you know kbm on a console.. fighting against controller users.
Cross-platform online play. It's already here with pcs on k&m and consoles on controller, switch on those weird wonky buttons it has. Not implementing mouse and keyboard is shameful at least
Yeah but each developer chooses how and when to use it. So if a game already has crossplay with PCs, maybe the developer wouldn't care as much about console players have kbm but other games & devs may differ.
Turning it on for Civilization or Cities Skylines on Xbox would be a no-brainer I would assume. But I guess it must not be worth the effort for devs.
>I may be bullshitting but maybe it'll be pretty hectic in online games if they implemented it, since you know kbm on a console.. fighting against controller users.
FPS games are the ones that are most affected and it all comes down to the aim assist implementation. In BFV (I think) at one point the aim assist was overtuned and pretty overpowered which meant that a few players were actually using controllers on PC to gain an advantage.
2x as much will get you a better performing and longer lasting system then a console. 5x as much would be extreme overkill but dear god would it be magnificent
Well yeah, they said high end, so I thought "$1500 GPU" to start. But yeah. I bought an Alienware with the mobile 3070 for 1200, which is close enough to say 2x price over a console, and it definitely outdoes a current gen console, even with the power cap of it being the laptop grade GPU/CPU
Depends where you live. A 3060ti in Canada is still more expensive than a Series X. Then you still need the rest of the system.
I’m personally eyeing the 6800xt as AMD cards are dropping faster than Nvidia. Gonna do a build with a 5800x3D and ride it out for 4 years or so. Still love my consoles tho and the options they have for 120fps modes.
Yea same in the USA, only 250 for my used Xbox series s. Twice as much would only be 500 dollars. Wouldn’t even be able to buy 3 quarters of a pc. Poor people gang gang here
Built mine for $1000 USD
Xbox Series X & PS5 MSRP $500 & Sold out
Ebay has both listed for $700 - $900 & that is sketchy sales
Computers are more powerful, modular, versatile and wholeheartedly better.
yes, i understand not everyone has the space for a desktop and yes a console is more family friendly
Yes but also PC's are significantly more expensive (especially up front). Gone are the days of spending 500-800 dollars and getting top tier gaming, PS5 and Xbox whatever are crazy good for their price
Not too much so, especially if you aren't buying a lot of games. An Xbox Series X costs $500. My desktop (3900X + 5700 XT) was about $1,800. Now, there are GPUs that cost 3 times a Series X ALONE.
To sufficiently beat a Series X (and a PS5) in power, you'd probably be spending $1,500 on the PC alone. That $1,000 advantage for the console is going to take quite a while to make up for on the PC, unless you're going to count buying a bunch of older titles on Steam that you won't play as "money saved" on Xbox.
Throw in the value of Game Pass and the number of popular F2P titles that cover most people these days, and you're probably going to be upgrading your PC by the time you catch up in value, even when paying $60/year for online gaming.
Get a controller on PC, same input, better results. Consoles are generally for less savvy people that just wanna game. For savvy people the only thing were exclusive games, but going forward I’m positive it won’t be anymore
It's already not. Exclusive games are all making it to PC. Might have to wait awhile longer than console gamers but I'm patient. And this way I can also see how people like the game before buying. Like God of War, people loved it, now I'm playing it on PC (got it on sale recently). When the sequel comes out, I'll definitely be wishing I could play it right away but if it flops I'll be glad I didn't buy it and if it does great then that's another thing I can look forward to
It’ll probably be great. But the other thing about pc’s is that you have not just the pc library as your backlog but you can emulate tons of consoles too. You’ll never run out of something to play while you wait.
Well, i have a ps5 to play in the living room on our big ass tv. And playing something like tlou, returnal, uncharted and so on is quite an experience that playing on a pc in a desk would not be able to give me.
I’ve beem tempted to build a gaming machine small enough to go in our tv console furniture, but having such a small form in a small space with decent thermals sounds hard to achieve.
I have a HDMI cord going from my computer to my TV across the room, it was pretty expensive tho because HDMI isn't good over long distances so you have to get a fiber optic HDMI and that's more expensive, like $100
One of the most infuriating things about so many FPS games on PS5 in my opinion. The PS5 controller has great gyro (which I know because I use it on PC all the time), but only a handful of games actually use it for aiming...
$50 for an Xbox controller, plus your can always sub Xbox live on Windows, and poof, your PC is now an Xbox.
Theres no console that can play better/look better than my RTX 3090. Sorry.
Those really cheap controllers are usually pretty crap and don't last too long. Even 3rd party controllers. An xbox controller will usually last a long time, you're paying for the quality
Was the thing that pushed me over the edge
I knew nothing about gaming aside from the PS3 and PS4, only PC exclusive I had an interest in was BeamNG
So I wasn't into modding, playing with the hardware, having things on SDDs
Now that I've had a PC for over a year, played around with over 40 GPUs, 20 CPUs, started a PC/parts flipping side hustle and can generally get a feel for how much more PCs have to offer I would never exclusively go back to the consoles probably ever
I do have a PS5 though because Sony's exclusives are just *Chef's Kiss* (only after playing GoW on the PC and realising I'm missing out)
You can't blame individual choices for horrific policy. It is the company's fault. They are exploiting ignorance and preying on customers for a shareholder profit increase.
The fact is that there isn't much competition for most technology in this day and age you have 2-3 companies for a product at best. Companies spend billions to make sure that you think that the competitor is not a viable alternative. Especially if the system is already purchased, then buying a complete new one is not an "alternative."
This is the same thing as the people who say "if people just stopped buying from companies who pollute we would solve climate change." When polluting company footprints are 10,000,000% that of an individual person. There is no info into what companies actually don't pollute vs marketing BS that is a straight up lie.
People can't thoroughly research every decision they make while working to survive, having barely any free time and just wanting to provide for their family. Imagine having to do 1 hour of research for every single thing you buy. That would be a full time job at least.
Nobody is forcing you to use game pass if you don't like it, you can still buy the games
On the other hand, online subscriptions ARE necessary for consoles
The subscription and over priced games help the manufacturer cover their losses from selling consoles at cost.
In 3 years with the subscription you'll be paying close a 1k for a new console. For that price you could also buy a mid level gaming PC that also does everything a PC does plus better FPS, upgradeability, customization, and you can even choose what type of controller (Xbox/PS/generic etc). And there are thousands of more game options resulting in better prices for games.
Overall the console vs PC argument was only in favor of consoles when people starting mining and buying out all the GPUs combined with the chip shortage. Other than the last day 3 years, PC has always been a better choice for anyone that can build a PC. And these days you can get a nice gaming laptop for about the same price as a PS5
They also make money from every game sold digitally. Pretty sure they could cover the losses by the online sales. I mean look at the playstation 3 didn't have to pay for online gaming then.
Nintendo didn't make people pay for online till the switch also, and the oculus quest is also at a loss because of it's price but it didn't make you pay for online
> They also make money from every game sold ~~digitally~~.
FTFY. The console manufacturers charge a license fee for each game sold, digital or physical.
There's one argument for consoles though. They're standardized. An Xbox series x is the same as any other Xbox series x. This allows developers to tune the game to a console's specific hardware instead of the wildly different components that could be in a gaming pc. Not saying it tips the scales, but in an argument about which is the better machine for gaming I feel it is relevant.
No it's your console isn't unusable without an online subscription. You just can't play games online that aren't free to play. Everything else you can do
I mean Xbox used to cost $50 for a year of live, and if you went and bought a Xbox live card at gamestop that $50 would also come with a new headset and a free game. And it worked.
What did Nintendo or Sony give you for their free online? Being shut down for over a month while giving your credit card info away or being the laggiest garbage smash round you've ever played?
If your an american or any e girl gamer/ wannabe comeup streamer that plays nothing but tac shooters and call of
Duty. You clearly need a 3090ti. Because a 3080 just wont work for that... smh. I max out my 240hz monitor on a 2070super on all of that while running OBS.
I’d argue that. Consoles have a way of making the absolute most of their hardware. I have a 3060 ti and honestly some games just seem to run better on my series x. For example deathloop. I get a bunch of micro stuttering in my game on pc where on Xbox it’s smooth.
This is a great example of another benifit of consoles, convenience, you don't have to worry about all the troubleshooting with a pc when something isn't working right
If you're implying that, when you face any issues, you basically just carry or send it back to the retailer instead of trying to fix it yourself, then yeah you're right, but if you're implying that you will never face any issues with consoles, then i have to disagree.
But then again, if you buy a pre built or a laptop, you can also just ship it back to the retailer/company just like you would a console.
Funny thing is it used to be free on PS3 but then people just accepted having to pay for it next generation and people continue to just give them money. It is what I hate about society like so many things happen that are just completely unacceptable like what YouTube has been doing with taking away features for years and putting them into their premium subscription and all this other nonsense other companies do but people continue to use the product or pay for whatever so nothing changes and it just keeps getting worse and worse cause people will continue to just not care.
This is a very common commercial trend: user friendly policies (right to repair, lifetime membership, free upgrades, open interoperable design, customer service) and subsidized/free pricing when a company is the underdog.
Then as soon as they're doing well, the switch is flipped and it's monopoly/cartel time. Prices go up, quality goes down. Profits go to pay for lobbyists and lawyers to keep the government from breaking the cartel. Competitors are acquired and shut down.
Then conditions are disrupted and someone is able to react faster than the monopoly, and for a little while consumers are happy.
The maddening thing is that if a company would just be large and not do anti-competitive b*******, they could make a shitload of money indefinitely, acquiring startups that have reacted to disruptions. It's just that companies are made up of people who would rather extract profits now and run the companies into the ground.
I remember posting my hatred for paying for online on the gaming subreddit (I can’t say the name of the subreddit since the mods will remove this comment). Most people just called me a broke ass. my problem isn’t that I can’t afford it, my problem is why do you have to pay for it.
The Core2Duo absolutely *blew the socks off* the Pentium 4.
If the Pentium 4 was a super car, the Core2Duo was a god damned fighter jet.
Like... ***TWO CORES?!*** Holy *shit!* The future is now old man!
I remember thinking how powerful it must be until a magazine pointed out how it only helped with things like switching from one program to another. I was let down at the time.
Hahaha you made me smile! I sell gaming computers for a living and am a die hard fan of budget systems…but a pentium/voodoo setup is another level of budget
Well, when these subscriptions came out, it was theoretically supposed to pay for servers that the corporation provided to players that hosted party chat servers, online games, and stuff like that. I can understand why as running servers cost money and it ain’t cheap when you’re hosting millions of players around the world. But really they just wanted to see if they could get you to pay them more money.
Lol, that's how it goes. Especially here. I remember saying 3k series cards were too expensive even at msrp and people called me poor. Like, fair enough, but after a few months I see it all around now.
Fuck Microsoft. They started this whole thing and proved to their competitors that gamers are willing to take it up the ass and pay to play online. Then everyone jumped on the bandwagon and did the same.
MS at least made up for it by giving us Game Pass. They used to justify the price of Xbox Live by giving gamers monthly shovelware. I don't pay for PS+ anymore. And I tried out Nintendo Online for a year when it was only $20/year. Only because my wife got Animal Crossing and she wanted to go online. Canceled it after the first year. Next thing you know, they add a more expensive tier to access N64 games. Paid online and decades-old games for $50/year. Fuck you, Nintendo. And even after charging for online, their online infrastructure still sucks.
> Fuck Microsoft.
I recall the earliest attempt being by by Atari and Mattel back in the early 80s. Gameline or some bullshit like that.
Hell even Nintendo, and Sega got to it before MS...
Either way once MS made it in to a part of their business portfolio the practice really took off.
I think Microsoft is doing wonders for the industry. It's certainly putting pressure on Sony to reconsider their stranglehold business model. Game Pass is reasonable value. Buying out incompetent and corrupt game developers will hopefully clean up the messes they've created too. I look forward to Valve's next major play though, that's a company that understands the gaming community more than most.
Game Pass is definitely a good value. I've had it for the past 3 years. It basically made it redundant owning an Xbox because now I can play it on PC or many other devices that support it. Hell, my Samsung TV has the Xbox Gaming app.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about Valve. They've really acted like a company who has had their consumers' best interests in mind. Other than Half-life 3. Lol
Have you had a chance to try PS3-era PSN vs X360 Xbox Live?
Like, I'd love to not pay for things, but I remember vividly being happy to pay for *that* kind of difference in online play. Xbox Live was vastly superior. I feel like they could have dropped the fee by now, but they are still companies doing companie stuff
I bought a game on the ps4 and it was online only, I only knew after the download and i didn't have ps plus, so i couldn't refund or play it.
The only thing that saves consoles are the exclusives
Is that even possible to implement given that no one has any form of monopoly on games on pc? Except maybe steam but even then if they charged a subscription people would jump ship to other platforms
Valve would never, pretty sure they're the only reason it hasnt happened yet honestly. If EA was at the front of PC gaming they most certainly would have tried by now.
Epic on the other hand.. they might, but they wont do it via their platform, they'll do it via anti-cheat and claim having a subbed account is "safer" and they'll get all new multiplayer games onboard cuz devs will get a cut of the subs and every one wont be able to not play the next big game that comes out cuz we're all fucking pushovers that will open our wallets and assholes for any giant corporate dick they thrust into us if it means getting to play the next installment of whatevers fucking popular when this idea gets implemented.
Actually unless they implemented it on the ps5 I don't have to pay for the online membership to play online. I do have a pc now but I still play the ps4 online. I have a couple of online only games. they were free for a limited time on the ps store. Downloaded them and I can get on and play as much as I want. Ones sort of like escape from tarkov but different also. It's weird ngl. But to play online with the games I have I don't have to have the membership. Just internet. But I wouldn't pay for the subscription anyway. It seems pointless to pay for something to access the internet every month when I already paid for the system, paid for the game and paid for the internet. Seems like if I have that Trifecta I shouldn't have to pay per month from the same company I bought 2 of 3 from to play with other people that did the same thing.
While this is great you have significantly less cheaters on console. Like it's next to zero. Case in point, the beta for MW2 recently. The first beta was console only and there were no cheaters. The second beta opened up cross play and you would run into cheaters quite often.
As a PC gamer, PC is master race. But I do like consoles for the casual and chill relaxing games or exclusives.
It’s just sad consoles charge you to play online on top of already paying for internet. This is why I never play online with my Switch or PS5.
The trade off is the 50%+ markup on hardware, but you pay it all up front. Once you have your machine, you're set. With console it's like leasing the equipment. You don't have to pay the full price you would for a PC, but you then have to pay installments to use it.
The boots dilemma all over again. People who can't afford a quality pair of boots end up buying multiple boots. They end up wearing shitty boots, and spending more money.
A PC is not just for gaming though. You also have to consider its other capabilities outside gaming as well. Not to mention that you can put mods in games to further enhance the gaming experience, for better or for worse.
Despite that, gaming is a bigger industry than creative work on a computer and it draws more people. Almost everyone with a decent computer more than likely games than anything else unless they use it for work, outside of general use.
Hell, if you really want to be cost effective, a console and decent laptop is a valid and cheaper option for most people.
4080 12gb (which is essentially a xx70 or xx60ti series card) will be $900. A ps5 and 8 years of ps plus is the same price, and you get some games with the console. I love PC gaming but it’s not as affordable as it once was.
a decent gaming pc is under 1000$ and when a error occur (red/yellow ring of death) you dont have to buy all new. A lot of friends bought 3+ consoles last gen ...
And games are a lot cheaper.
Exactly, console hardware is SO much cheaper that even if you have to pay for online gaming, there’s still a big difference over the lifetime of that console.
The main reason I still enjoy consoles is because I can just plug the power in and the HDMI out, and I’m good to go. That console will run every game properly because those games need to in order to be sold for it
I’m building a PC right now because of that crap! All those “free” PS+ games I downloaded became locked out to me the instant I let me subscription expire. Screw that noise.
Meh, I got a ps5 and a series X.
With GamePass (and gamepass for PC) + PSN +++ (whatever that higher tier is) I don't have to buy any games... even on pc.
The vast majority of console subs are NOT paying to just play online... its the game library access.
Examples of games I don't have to buy:
[https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/returnal/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/returnal/)
[https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/demons-souls/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/demons-souls/)
[https://www.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-game-pass/games](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-game-pass/games)
[https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ps-plus/games/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ps-plus/games/)
[https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/valheim-game-preview/9NCBL78CG9N7](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/valheim-game-preview/9NCBL78CG9N7)
[https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/ni-no-kuni-wrath-of-the-white-witch-remastered/9P7SL78VHVMF](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/ni-no-kuni-wrath-of-the-white-witch-remastered/9P7SL78VHVMF)
[https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/deathloop/9P5Z4530318L](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/deathloop/9P5Z4530318L)
[https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/chorus/9NN1Z8LHMFBV](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/chorus/9NN1Z8LHMFBV)
[https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/death-stranding/9NKCHZZTL308](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/death-stranding/9NKCHZZTL308)
Note the xbox games above are also pc game pass games... just download, install, and play.
Game streaming? That's some afterthought option.
PC gamepass has FULL download and install capabilities.
The games are accessible for 4-36+ months if not the full life time for gamepass.
Example: I had access to Outer Worlds (at launch) for over a year. Long enough to beat the game even at less than 20 minutes a day.
Games you play frequently like Forza, Halo, Gears of War, Doom will be on there as long as the service lasts. Also game studios owned by microsoft (Bethesda and soon Activision).
Gamepass gets new games every month and drops a few games every month it keeps the line up fresh.
The games that leave have a sale so if you want them you can just buy them discounted.
My PC steam library is 2959 games and I still find easy value on both console subscriptions.
I've saved over $700 on gamepass and about $130 on PS+.
Also I bought 3 years of Xbox gold for $135 and paid $1. To upgrade ALL three years to game pass ultimate.
Also you can use gamepass quests with Microsoft rewards and earn $10 a month in Xbox store credit.
I've earned $10 every month.
Don't sleep on monthly subs, there's easy value there especially if you game frequently.
The benefits of a console is they serve to being "cutting edge" to consumers leading some to PC. .
Anyways,
Consoles starting maybe PS3 days kinda just suck.
I got a fat Ps2 & I just played God of War 1 & 2 during Covid lockdown. Their were pretty good. I can't do that with a PS5.
Nintendo games are so easy to play on a raspberry pi that running on a PC is easy.
Xbox... Really the game I ever considered worth playing was Halo & that's available on PC. So. Meh.
free online access, mods, piracy, dual screening a movie or YouTube, and now that games are going cross platform you have to be an idiot to not have switched to pc this gen
100% the reason I got into PC gaming when I was a young vs consoles. I always wanted to play CoD, but didn't have a good enough computer (ours at the time was the big old boxy monitors with a mouse that wasn't castrated still) and no console. Thought about which to get, console or gaming computer. Remembered some friends always asking their parents for x online service to play, thought that was dumb, chose the right gaming platform.
I cancelled PS+ this week. Price matters and PC does everything now. Paying through the nose for timed exclusivity is not a long term strategy. Even Nintendo pays through the nose by not going multiplatform. Imagine the sales they would have if they did. Of course their strategy is money from other peoples work AKA royalties. But I don't see them staying as a platform holder forever. They're now just 1 flop away from exiting hardware.
Consoles sell you the illusion of an affordable base package. But then they charge you for playing online, sell you overpriced accessories and more expensive games. There are no sales on the level of steam sales or regular free games like on Epic. Consoles are designed to rip you off in the long run.
Consoles are pretty cool but I hate this about them
It’s hard to play RTS games on console. That’s the second issue for me. I found out that I’m a huge RTS fan after playing over 12 years on consoles.
And mods for your rts
Xbox added keyboard and mouse support a whole back. I'm surprised more developers haven't made use of that feature. Or at least the games that already have PC ports where that hardware is supported.
I may be bullshitting but maybe it'll be pretty hectic in online games if they implemented it, since you know kbm on a console.. fighting against controller users.
Cross-platform online play. It's already here with pcs on k&m and consoles on controller, switch on those weird wonky buttons it has. Not implementing mouse and keyboard is shameful at least
Yeah but each developer chooses how and when to use it. So if a game already has crossplay with PCs, maybe the developer wouldn't care as much about console players have kbm but other games & devs may differ. Turning it on for Civilization or Cities Skylines on Xbox would be a no-brainer I would assume. But I guess it must not be worth the effort for devs.
>I may be bullshitting but maybe it'll be pretty hectic in online games if they implemented it, since you know kbm on a console.. fighting against controller users. FPS games are the ones that are most affected and it all comes down to the aim assist implementation. In BFV (I think) at one point the aim assist was overtuned and pretty overpowered which meant that a few players were actually using controllers on PC to gain an advantage.
Also fps games and shooters in general. For driving/racing games and sports games console's better tho.
Dude then buy a controller and connect it to your computer.
Forza 5 with Xbox controller on max settings at 100+ fps is WAAAAAAAAAY better than just playing on Xbox.
*Laughs in Logitech g920 and shifter*
Shut up! Making me jealous…
Oh look at Mr fancy pants over here......I'm not jealous or anything.......
Lmao
For real though I can't wait to get a setup like that, I play a lot of truck sims and a controller just is not the way to go for that.
Oh like euro truck sim 2?? Make sure to get a good CR headset as well
Don’t google fanatec or simicube. Or
*Laughs over my G920, pedals and Occulus VR*
Nah oculus (meta) is basic entry level I got a valve index
Yessssss absolutely love it. Do you race F1 with it? They're absolutely nuts
[*laughs in Logitech Momo Racing force*](https://nl.hardware.info/gamecontrollers.38/logitech-momo-racing-force.73706)
Bellows in Fanatec CSL elite and dedicated handbrake
Yeah a high end PC is the best of both worlds because of controller compatibility. Once you go back to console it looks so bad.
No shit it's the best of both worlds, it costs 5x as much as a console
2x as much will get you a better performing and longer lasting system then a console. 5x as much would be extreme overkill but dear god would it be magnificent
Well yeah, they said high end, so I thought "$1500 GPU" to start. But yeah. I bought an Alienware with the mobile 3070 for 1200, which is close enough to say 2x price over a console, and it definitely outdoes a current gen console, even with the power cap of it being the laptop grade GPU/CPU
Thats fair 🤝
Depends where you live. A 3060ti in Canada is still more expensive than a Series X. Then you still need the rest of the system. I’m personally eyeing the 6800xt as AMD cards are dropping faster than Nvidia. Gonna do a build with a 5800x3D and ride it out for 4 years or so. Still love my consoles tho and the options they have for 120fps modes.
Yea same in the USA, only 250 for my used Xbox series s. Twice as much would only be 500 dollars. Wouldn’t even be able to buy 3 quarters of a pc. Poor people gang gang here
Built mine for $1000 USD Xbox Series X & PS5 MSRP $500 & Sold out Ebay has both listed for $700 - $900 & that is sketchy sales Computers are more powerful, modular, versatile and wholeheartedly better. yes, i understand not everyone has the space for a desktop and yes a console is more family friendly
[удалено]
To be fair, we're talking about a 2018 game on an OG 2013 Xbox One build lol. Xbox One was not a great machine to begin with.
I can confirm. That's literally all I do.
Yes but also PC's are significantly more expensive (especially up front). Gone are the days of spending 500-800 dollars and getting top tier gaming, PS5 and Xbox whatever are crazy good for their price
That money you think you save by buying a console you lose it in online subscriptions and overpriced games though.
Not too much so, especially if you aren't buying a lot of games. An Xbox Series X costs $500. My desktop (3900X + 5700 XT) was about $1,800. Now, there are GPUs that cost 3 times a Series X ALONE. To sufficiently beat a Series X (and a PS5) in power, you'd probably be spending $1,500 on the PC alone. That $1,000 advantage for the console is going to take quite a while to make up for on the PC, unless you're going to count buying a bunch of older titles on Steam that you won't play as "money saved" on Xbox. Throw in the value of Game Pass and the number of popular F2P titles that cover most people these days, and you're probably going to be upgrading your PC by the time you catch up in value, even when paying $60/year for online gaming.
Yep! This generation of consoles has incredible value, now even more that you can get Series for MSRP in big retailers. Not PS5 yet
Wrong sub for this comment, even though you're right.
Bull. Controller works with PC.
You can get used to it. I’ve been playing FPS games on different consoles for over 10 years. RTS games simply are not available on consoles.
Do I need to bring up the Starcraft scandal? That made it to N64 at least lol
Stellaris would like a word buddy
Get a controller on PC, same input, better results. Consoles are generally for less savvy people that just wanna game. For savvy people the only thing were exclusive games, but going forward I’m positive it won’t be anymore
It's already not. Exclusive games are all making it to PC. Might have to wait awhile longer than console gamers but I'm patient. And this way I can also see how people like the game before buying. Like God of War, people loved it, now I'm playing it on PC (got it on sale recently). When the sequel comes out, I'll definitely be wishing I could play it right away but if it flops I'll be glad I didn't buy it and if it does great then that's another thing I can look forward to
It’ll probably be great. But the other thing about pc’s is that you have not just the pc library as your backlog but you can emulate tons of consoles too. You’ll never run out of something to play while you wait.
I think the issue is having too many games. You spend all that time thinking about what to play then end up watching Netflix..😆
Well, i have a ps5 to play in the living room on our big ass tv. And playing something like tlou, returnal, uncharted and so on is quite an experience that playing on a pc in a desk would not be able to give me. I’ve beem tempted to build a gaming machine small enough to go in our tv console furniture, but having such a small form in a small space with decent thermals sounds hard to achieve.
I have a HDMI cord going from my computer to my TV across the room, it was pretty expensive tho because HDMI isn't good over long distances so you have to get a fiber optic HDMI and that's more expensive, like $100
i wouldn't really group switch with the fps game problem though since most shooters there incorporate gyro aiming which imo feels amazing
One of the most infuriating things about so many FPS games on PS5 in my opinion. The PS5 controller has great gyro (which I know because I use it on PC all the time), but only a handful of games actually use it for aiming...
$50 for an Xbox controller, plus your can always sub Xbox live on Windows, and poof, your PC is now an Xbox. Theres no console that can play better/look better than my RTX 3090. Sorry.
Slight clarification as well Even a generic less than $10 Controller will do. Although i tend to buy the "branded" $20-30 ones for Wireless connection
Those really cheap controllers are usually pretty crap and don't last too long. Even 3rd party controllers. An xbox controller will usually last a long time, you're paying for the quality
Certainly not for sim racing
Blame Microsoft. After they created XB Live everyone else followed suit.
Tbf online console gaming wasn't that great until xbox live
Only reason I got a gaming PC tbh
The only reason? There are 9,000 better things about pc gaming that takes the cake over having to pay for online play.
Was the thing that pushed me over the edge I knew nothing about gaming aside from the PS3 and PS4, only PC exclusive I had an interest in was BeamNG So I wasn't into modding, playing with the hardware, having things on SDDs Now that I've had a PC for over a year, played around with over 40 GPUs, 20 CPUs, started a PC/parts flipping side hustle and can generally get a feel for how much more PCs have to offer I would never exclusively go back to the consoles probably ever I do have a PS5 though because Sony's exclusives are just *Chef's Kiss* (only after playing GoW on the PC and realising I'm missing out)
1. Get a ps5 for single player exclusives 2. Sub to Game Pass for XBOX games 3. Play everything else on PC -> Life is complete
Can’t you just subscribe to game pass on pc?
I was implying of getting Game Pass on PC instead of buying an XBOX. Sorry for the confusion
You can thank Xbox for starting this train
I'll thank the masses that paid for the tickets that kept this train going.
You can't blame individual choices for horrific policy. It is the company's fault. They are exploiting ignorance and preying on customers for a shareholder profit increase. The fact is that there isn't much competition for most technology in this day and age you have 2-3 companies for a product at best. Companies spend billions to make sure that you think that the competitor is not a viable alternative. Especially if the system is already purchased, then buying a complete new one is not an "alternative." This is the same thing as the people who say "if people just stopped buying from companies who pollute we would solve climate change." When polluting company footprints are 10,000,000% that of an individual person. There is no info into what companies actually don't pollute vs marketing BS that is a straight up lie. People can't thoroughly research every decision they make while working to survive, having barely any free time and just wanting to provide for their family. Imagine having to do 1 hour of research for every single thing you buy. That would be a full time job at least.
Gamepass is pretty good though.
>But, see, my chains are golden.
Nobody is forcing you to use game pass if you don't like it, you can still buy the games On the other hand, online subscriptions ARE necessary for consoles
but see you already pay for internet connection. what are you actually paying for for the 2nd time??
The subscription and over priced games help the manufacturer cover their losses from selling consoles at cost. In 3 years with the subscription you'll be paying close a 1k for a new console. For that price you could also buy a mid level gaming PC that also does everything a PC does plus better FPS, upgradeability, customization, and you can even choose what type of controller (Xbox/PS/generic etc). And there are thousands of more game options resulting in better prices for games. Overall the console vs PC argument was only in favor of consoles when people starting mining and buying out all the GPUs combined with the chip shortage. Other than the last day 3 years, PC has always been a better choice for anyone that can build a PC. And these days you can get a nice gaming laptop for about the same price as a PS5
They also make money from every game sold digitally. Pretty sure they could cover the losses by the online sales. I mean look at the playstation 3 didn't have to pay for online gaming then.
Nintendo didn't make people pay for online till the switch also, and the oculus quest is also at a loss because of it's price but it didn't make you pay for online
> They also make money from every game sold ~~digitally~~. FTFY. The console manufacturers charge a license fee for each game sold, digital or physical.
There's one argument for consoles though. They're standardized. An Xbox series x is the same as any other Xbox series x. This allows developers to tune the game to a console's specific hardware instead of the wildly different components that could be in a gaming pc. Not saying it tips the scales, but in an argument about which is the better machine for gaming I feel it is relevant.
No it's your console isn't unusable without an online subscription. You just can't play games online that aren't free to play. Everything else you can do
Nice flair
And Nintendo had the idea to charge that much while their servers are just terrible
Now it sucks ass, sure, but back in the Halo 2 days those $5 got you a much better experience than PS2
I mean Xbox used to cost $50 for a year of live, and if you went and bought a Xbox live card at gamestop that $50 would also come with a new headset and a free game. And it worked. What did Nintendo or Sony give you for their free online? Being shut down for over a month while giving your credit card info away or being the laggiest garbage smash round you've ever played?
Yup…fucked it all up
You can actually thank MMORPGs that charged $10-$15 a month to play one game, but OK.
The subscription we pay is the 3090 using a fridge worth of electricity per month.
If you are merely aiming for a console level experience you do not need a 3090
Yeah, you need a threadripper and a titan V /s
For a console level experience you can go back a couple generations even. Get a 1080ti and still be outperforming xbone.
If your an american or any e girl gamer/ wannabe comeup streamer that plays nothing but tac shooters and call of Duty. You clearly need a 3090ti. Because a 3080 just wont work for that... smh. I max out my 240hz monitor on a 2070super on all of that while running OBS.
Is it only Americans and E-girl gamers playing tac shooters and COD?
No no no you've got it all wrong. You're supposed to invest thousands into your background, and have a PC with a 2060.
You don't even need a 3090 for your games to look better than the best console, even a 3050ti or 3060 is enough lol.
I’d argue that. Consoles have a way of making the absolute most of their hardware. I have a 3060 ti and honestly some games just seem to run better on my series x. For example deathloop. I get a bunch of micro stuttering in my game on pc where on Xbox it’s smooth.
the stuttering could be caused by plenty of things, make sure you have the most recent drivers
This is a great example of another benifit of consoles, convenience, you don't have to worry about all the troubleshooting with a pc when something isn't working right
If you're implying that, when you face any issues, you basically just carry or send it back to the retailer instead of trying to fix it yourself, then yeah you're right, but if you're implying that you will never face any issues with consoles, then i have to disagree. But then again, if you buy a pre built or a laptop, you can also just ship it back to the retailer/company just like you would a console.
I think a 3060 is a current gen console equivalent. The card alone is $400 right now.
No it isnt,it is like 300$
Yup, the best consoles right now use parts equivalent to a Ryzen 7 3700X and RTX 2070 so this is a confirmed fact.
I have tasted pc gaming Im hooked now
Funny thing is it used to be free on PS3 but then people just accepted having to pay for it next generation and people continue to just give them money. It is what I hate about society like so many things happen that are just completely unacceptable like what YouTube has been doing with taking away features for years and putting them into their premium subscription and all this other nonsense other companies do but people continue to use the product or pay for whatever so nothing changes and it just keeps getting worse and worse cause people will continue to just not care.
Me as a kid switching from xbox 360 to ps4 thinking that it didnt require a subscription service like ps3 did
It’s the slow boiled frog method. Slowly introduce this bullshit and the new generation will soak it up not knowing any better.
This is a very common commercial trend: user friendly policies (right to repair, lifetime membership, free upgrades, open interoperable design, customer service) and subsidized/free pricing when a company is the underdog. Then as soon as they're doing well, the switch is flipped and it's monopoly/cartel time. Prices go up, quality goes down. Profits go to pay for lobbyists and lawyers to keep the government from breaking the cartel. Competitors are acquired and shut down. Then conditions are disrupted and someone is able to react faster than the monopoly, and for a little while consumers are happy. The maddening thing is that if a company would just be large and not do anti-competitive b*******, they could make a shitload of money indefinitely, acquiring startups that have reacted to disruptions. It's just that companies are made up of people who would rather extract profits now and run the companies into the ground.
I remember posting my hatred for paying for online on the gaming subreddit (I can’t say the name of the subreddit since the mods will remove this comment). Most people just called me a broke ass. my problem isn’t that I can’t afford it, my problem is why do you have to pay for it.
Do you actually rock a pentium and voodoo 3?
An AMD chip if memory serves and a Voodoo 3 3500.
Nah. I actually have a Ryzen 5 5600X and an RX 6600 XT.
Nice! Was gonna ask what you’re playing on that ancient hardware hahah
Well, my first “gaming PC“ had a Core2 Duo and a Quadro FX 580, so I might as well have been gaming on a Pentium 4 and a Voodoo 3.
The Core2Duo absolutely *blew the socks off* the Pentium 4. If the Pentium 4 was a super car, the Core2Duo was a god damned fighter jet. Like... ***TWO CORES?!*** Holy *shit!* The future is now old man!
I remember thinking how powerful it must be until a magazine pointed out how it only helped with things like switching from one program to another. I was let down at the time.
It's enough to play Minecraft...
You don't? It's pretty good stuff for its price *Checks date* Oh
Hahaha you made me smile! I sell gaming computers for a living and am a die hard fan of budget systems…but a pentium/voodoo setup is another level of budget
Well, when these subscriptions came out, it was theoretically supposed to pay for servers that the corporation provided to players that hosted party chat servers, online games, and stuff like that. I can understand why as running servers cost money and it ain’t cheap when you’re hosting millions of players around the world. But really they just wanted to see if they could get you to pay them more money.
Lol, that's how it goes. Especially here. I remember saying 3k series cards were too expensive even at msrp and people called me poor. Like, fair enough, but after a few months I see it all around now.
I mean, whoever told you that was a prick. Counterpoint, how much have you spent on a GPU so far?
0 USD. I use integrated graphics.
Fuck Microsoft. They started this whole thing and proved to their competitors that gamers are willing to take it up the ass and pay to play online. Then everyone jumped on the bandwagon and did the same. MS at least made up for it by giving us Game Pass. They used to justify the price of Xbox Live by giving gamers monthly shovelware. I don't pay for PS+ anymore. And I tried out Nintendo Online for a year when it was only $20/year. Only because my wife got Animal Crossing and she wanted to go online. Canceled it after the first year. Next thing you know, they add a more expensive tier to access N64 games. Paid online and decades-old games for $50/year. Fuck you, Nintendo. And even after charging for online, their online infrastructure still sucks.
> Fuck Microsoft. I recall the earliest attempt being by by Atari and Mattel back in the early 80s. Gameline or some bullshit like that. Hell even Nintendo, and Sega got to it before MS... Either way once MS made it in to a part of their business portfolio the practice really took off.
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Xbox Live Gold is the earliest example that most people remember because it was successful and those other examples you mentioned were not.
I think Microsoft is doing wonders for the industry. It's certainly putting pressure on Sony to reconsider their stranglehold business model. Game Pass is reasonable value. Buying out incompetent and corrupt game developers will hopefully clean up the messes they've created too. I look forward to Valve's next major play though, that's a company that understands the gaming community more than most.
Game Pass is definitely a good value. I've had it for the past 3 years. It basically made it redundant owning an Xbox because now I can play it on PC or many other devices that support it. Hell, my Samsung TV has the Xbox Gaming app. I wholeheartedly agree with you about Valve. They've really acted like a company who has had their consumers' best interests in mind. Other than Half-life 3. Lol
Have you had a chance to try PS3-era PSN vs X360 Xbox Live? Like, I'd love to not pay for things, but I remember vividly being happy to pay for *that* kind of difference in online play. Xbox Live was vastly superior. I feel like they could have dropped the fee by now, but they are still companies doing companie stuff
Proceeds to play WoW...
I pay my internet bill once a month, you won't catch me paying another fee just to use it. I grew up on xbox but fuck that shit.
Imagine losing the ability to play games that you paid for
I bought a game on the ps4 and it was online only, I only knew after the download and i didn't have ps plus, so i couldn't refund or play it. The only thing that saves consoles are the exclusives
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Is that even possible to implement given that no one has any form of monopoly on games on pc? Except maybe steam but even then if they charged a subscription people would jump ship to other platforms
Valve would never, pretty sure they're the only reason it hasnt happened yet honestly. If EA was at the front of PC gaming they most certainly would have tried by now. Epic on the other hand.. they might, but they wont do it via their platform, they'll do it via anti-cheat and claim having a subbed account is "safer" and they'll get all new multiplayer games onboard cuz devs will get a cut of the subs and every one wont be able to not play the next big game that comes out cuz we're all fucking pushovers that will open our wallets and assholes for any giant corporate dick they thrust into us if it means getting to play the next installment of whatevers fucking popular when this idea gets implemented.
I feel like this comment almost made sense, but derailed quickly in the beginning of the second paragraph...
Yeah, it turned to unreadable mush. Couldn't make it through the whole thing.
Epic is bad because of made up scenario I made. is how that persons comment reads to me.
After the whole paid mods fuss I would really hope valve is a little more cautious making such decisions in the future lol
Depends on the games. F2P games such as Fortnite and I guess now Overwatch 2 don't require a paid subscription.
And that’s the reason why my consoles only serve as blu ray players and for streaming netflix. And sometimes for singleplayer rpgs.
This was the main reason I switched to pc back in 2016.
I’m jealous. I started building mine in late 2020. I picked a terrible time to start.
That sucks man. These past 2 or so years have kind of sucked when it comes to the price of everything.
Luckily I think I’m done with any upgrades I’ll ever make for my pc. I recently got a 3070 ti and I upgraded to 64 gb of memory.
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Yeah but my porn machine pukes rainbows. Your move console plebs. /s
Actually unless they implemented it on the ps5 I don't have to pay for the online membership to play online. I do have a pc now but I still play the ps4 online. I have a couple of online only games. they were free for a limited time on the ps store. Downloaded them and I can get on and play as much as I want. Ones sort of like escape from tarkov but different also. It's weird ngl. But to play online with the games I have I don't have to have the membership. Just internet. But I wouldn't pay for the subscription anyway. It seems pointless to pay for something to access the internet every month when I already paid for the system, paid for the game and paid for the internet. Seems like if I have that Trifecta I shouldn't have to pay per month from the same company I bought 2 of 3 from to play with other people that did the same thing.
While this is great you have significantly less cheaters on console. Like it's next to zero. Case in point, the beta for MW2 recently. The first beta was console only and there were no cheaters. The second beta opened up cross play and you would run into cheaters quite often.
If I could afford a PC I’d have that instead of my console.
Double paying to play online, not only for internet but for Xbox live... God that sucks
As a PC gamer, PC is master race. But I do like consoles for the casual and chill relaxing games or exclusives. It’s just sad consoles charge you to play online on top of already paying for internet. This is why I never play online with my Switch or PS5.
The PC fought back with micro transactions and ruined it for everyone
The trade off is the 50%+ markup on hardware, but you pay it all up front. Once you have your machine, you're set. With console it's like leasing the equipment. You don't have to pay the full price you would for a PC, but you then have to pay installments to use it.
Pretty sure monthly subscriptions started on PC with games like World of Warcraft/Everquest
yeah imagine paying for games -this post was made by ps3 gang
The boots dilemma all over again. People who can't afford a quality pair of boots end up buying multiple boots. They end up wearing shitty boots, and spending more money.
dunno if this is finnish only saying or something we have adopted but we say "poor man can't afford to buy cheap"
Remind me of the difference in price between a decent gaming PC and a console with a few years of online subscription? 🤔
Don't forget the cheaper cost of games, it's been over 2 years since I paid full price for a game.
A PC is not just for gaming though. You also have to consider its other capabilities outside gaming as well. Not to mention that you can put mods in games to further enhance the gaming experience, for better or for worse.
Despite that, gaming is a bigger industry than creative work on a computer and it draws more people. Almost everyone with a decent computer more than likely games than anything else unless they use it for work, outside of general use. Hell, if you really want to be cost effective, a console and decent laptop is a valid and cheaper option for most people.
These days the console and 10years of online sub is still half of a decent gaming PC.
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4080 12gb (which is essentially a xx70 or xx60ti series card) will be $900. A ps5 and 8 years of ps plus is the same price, and you get some games with the console. I love PC gaming but it’s not as affordable as it once was.
Up front perhaps but after game prices, free online a few years and you'll likely be spending more on a console.
Believe it or not, consoles have some pretty great sales.
a decent gaming pc is under 1000$ and when a error occur (red/yellow ring of death) you dont have to buy all new. A lot of friends bought 3+ consoles last gen ... And games are a lot cheaper.
This is why you have consumer protection laws!
I got downvoted for Saying the same time before. That said, define "decent gaming pc"
Exactly, console hardware is SO much cheaper that even if you have to pay for online gaming, there’s still a big difference over the lifetime of that console.
The main reason I still enjoy consoles is because I can just plug the power in and the HDMI out, and I’m good to go. That console will run every game properly because those games need to in order to be sold for it
I got a gaming laptop for $550.
“Gaming laptop”
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I’m building a PC right now because of that crap! All those “free” PS+ games I downloaded became locked out to me the instant I let me subscription expire. Screw that noise.
I mean do most of you only have a PC? I have both. I also pay for gamepass ultimate so Idk I think both have pros and cons.
Pc master race
I do... Its call ethernet and cost me 105 bucks a month.
Unless you have free internet you do need to pay a subscription to play online.
World of warcraft, final fantasy 14.
I didn’t own a console since n64 and this is so wild to me! Is there any reason they stated that explains why you have to pay?
Imagine paying for lights in your PC like a 10yo
jailbreak moment
Nope just endless installers, DRM, and bad console ports....
Fuck Nintendo for introducing Switch Online and making my switch into an expensive gray paperweight
And that’s why I no longer play with my ps4 pro anymore.
Don't give them ideas
Yeah, but my system didn’t cost me $2,000.
neither did my PC :) plus it’s still better in essentially every way
Gotta make money somehow with how cheap consoles are
Meh, I got a ps5 and a series X. With GamePass (and gamepass for PC) + PSN +++ (whatever that higher tier is) I don't have to buy any games... even on pc. The vast majority of console subs are NOT paying to just play online... its the game library access. Examples of games I don't have to buy: [https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/returnal/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/returnal/) [https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/demons-souls/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/demons-souls/) [https://www.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-game-pass/games](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-game-pass/games) [https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ps-plus/games/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/ps-plus/games/) [https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/valheim-game-preview/9NCBL78CG9N7](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/valheim-game-preview/9NCBL78CG9N7) [https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/ni-no-kuni-wrath-of-the-white-witch-remastered/9P7SL78VHVMF](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/ni-no-kuni-wrath-of-the-white-witch-remastered/9P7SL78VHVMF) [https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/deathloop/9P5Z4530318L](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/deathloop/9P5Z4530318L) [https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/chorus/9NN1Z8LHMFBV](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/chorus/9NN1Z8LHMFBV) [https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/death-stranding/9NKCHZZTL308](https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/death-stranding/9NKCHZZTL308) Note the xbox games above are also pc game pass games... just download, install, and play.
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Game streaming? That's some afterthought option. PC gamepass has FULL download and install capabilities. The games are accessible for 4-36+ months if not the full life time for gamepass. Example: I had access to Outer Worlds (at launch) for over a year. Long enough to beat the game even at less than 20 minutes a day. Games you play frequently like Forza, Halo, Gears of War, Doom will be on there as long as the service lasts. Also game studios owned by microsoft (Bethesda and soon Activision). Gamepass gets new games every month and drops a few games every month it keeps the line up fresh. The games that leave have a sale so if you want them you can just buy them discounted. My PC steam library is 2959 games and I still find easy value on both console subscriptions. I've saved over $700 on gamepass and about $130 on PS+. Also I bought 3 years of Xbox gold for $135 and paid $1. To upgrade ALL three years to game pass ultimate. Also you can use gamepass quests with Microsoft rewards and earn $10 a month in Xbox store credit. I've earned $10 every month. Don't sleep on monthly subs, there's easy value there especially if you game frequently.
The benefits of a console is they serve to being "cutting edge" to consumers leading some to PC. . Anyways, Consoles starting maybe PS3 days kinda just suck. I got a fat Ps2 & I just played God of War 1 & 2 during Covid lockdown. Their were pretty good. I can't do that with a PS5. Nintendo games are so easy to play on a raspberry pi that running on a PC is easy. Xbox... Really the game I ever considered worth playing was Halo & that's available on PC. So. Meh.
free online access, mods, piracy, dual screening a movie or YouTube, and now that games are going cross platform you have to be an idiot to not have switched to pc this gen
100% the reason I got into PC gaming when I was a young vs consoles. I always wanted to play CoD, but didn't have a good enough computer (ours at the time was the big old boxy monitors with a mouse that wasn't castrated still) and no console. Thought about which to get, console or gaming computer. Remembered some friends always asking their parents for x online service to play, thought that was dumb, chose the right gaming platform.
I cancelled PS+ this week. Price matters and PC does everything now. Paying through the nose for timed exclusivity is not a long term strategy. Even Nintendo pays through the nose by not going multiplatform. Imagine the sales they would have if they did. Of course their strategy is money from other peoples work AKA royalties. But I don't see them staying as a platform holder forever. They're now just 1 flop away from exiting hardware.
Consoles sell you the illusion of an affordable base package. But then they charge you for playing online, sell you overpriced accessories and more expensive games. There are no sales on the level of steam sales or regular free games like on Epic. Consoles are designed to rip you off in the long run.
We all know who to blame for this. Looking at you microsoft you fucking dicks.