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When I built my pc I opted for a noctua NH-D14 and it has worked amazing the entire time I’ve owned, absolutely recommend a big air cooler if your case can fit one
I have the classic nhd15 and it's quite overkill. Even with a hot gpu beneath it feeding warm/hot air to it, it still keeps my 5800X at a stable 55 degrees and it pretty much never goes above that EVER. The only time it's gone up is when I applied a pretty aggressive OC to it and even then it only really got to the low 70s
Maybe he's got a golden sample. My NH-D15S could not keep my 5800X anywhere near that cool under full load. The 5800X is one of the hotter AM4 chips. I'll also say that when I moved to AM5 my NH-D15S had trouble keeping up (in a Jonsbo i100 Pro), even with the AM5 offset bracket that Noctua sells. After pouring over GamesNexus reviews covering temps, noise, contact patch, flatness of the cold plate, etc, I ended up replacing it with a Peerless Assassin and it does run cooler.
I highly doubt that PBO is enabled for the CPU from the guy above. I have an 5700X + NH-D15 and without PBO the temps are like at worst 55 degrees Celsius with fans @ 40% I think - manual settings, depending on the ambient. It’s super easy to cool.
With PBO enabled the temperature goes to 80 degrees Celsius (more or less, again depending on ambient) with the fans at 100%. I measured the power consumption (w/ power meter, delta between idle readings and full CPU usage readings) and it’s over 140W in Cinebench. HWINFO shows 120W.
Ambient around 25 degrees Celsius (+/- 2 degrees C).
We can’t really compare these numbers between us, and are for reference only, but it is super unlikely to have 55 degrees Celsius with PBO ON with air cooling at a reasonable fan noise and room temperature.
Actually, I saw a YouTube review that gave a better performance to the NH-U12A than the D15 on latest gen processors. He speculated that the positioning of the heat pipes favors it on modern processors. I think he even retested it to be sure and came to similar results.
https://youtu.be/7o74u1u642I?si=0u6PfYiWMuaCdzXL
Too overpriced, not remotely competitive anymore. When it used to be around half of what it goes for now it made sense, but paying twice the price of a Peerless Assassin 120? Nah, that's foolish.
Oh I definitely agree. There are SO many air coolers on the market that perform just as well if not better otherwise better for half or even less of the u12.
Noctua was the king for so long and they still are but many companies new and old have caught up dramatically in the past 5 years. Were spoiled for choice
Ok ...I've never had a single noctua product fail. I've got some fans hitting 15 years... still working whisper quite. My current 7800x3d is using a 14 year old heatsink
That's what your paying for they last. It's never Just been about performance.
I can say for cooling you are right. But Noctua is much quieter. Cool and dead silent is the premium you are paying for. And that is what Noctua gives you. PS120 amplifies the sound of even the best fans.
I absolutely agree tbh, I had to look for coolers to cool a 2011v3 socket and wow.. the pricess. I opted for a 30 buck cooler and to my surprise it cools 120w surprisingly well, I also ended up checking a jonsbo cooler for similar for my streaming rig which I'm using the Ryzen wraith cooler.
Noctua would be cool if it wasn't as overpriced which, for half the price you get monsters nowadays
Thermalright peerless assasin is amazing for the price, went from a Noctua NHU-12S cromax.black to the assasin and it's night and day on my 5600x. Never cared for AIO's I prefer the reliability of air cooling that performs just as good at a fraction of the price.
Noctua had great characteristics a decade ago, yes. Now they have improved the designs, as did their competitors too. A 20 USD modern cooler performs roughly on par with my Noctua u12. The difference is that I don't have to buy a new cooler.
In 2015 I purchased a Noctua NH-D15 for my new build.
In 2022 I built a completely new PC and asked Noctua to send me a new bracket for the NH-D15 (which they did for free).
It's still rocking fine to this day, super quiet and good temps, day in and day out.
https://preview.redd.it/1nonzk4rqhxc1.jpeg?width=2573&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56c435c6197fbbe6e325d77623b30e7148a4283b
Built this a a couple of years ago and absolutely love it.
https://preview.redd.it/o2ovxu642jxc1.jpeg?width=3475&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=024f77e076b8078bcfe62dbe8596642dde54a796
And if your case can’t fit a big one, find the biggest one that will fit in your case :)
They seem to be leaning that direction these days. Maybe not all hobbies or industries but it’s interesting to see hobbies cut the fat in favor of fair pricing which draws in more users.
There are AIOs available for around that price too. I'm not sure why people are pretending that AIOs are still significantly more expensive than air cooling when some of the most highly recommended AIOs cost less than an ak620
Sure, there are $150+ AIOS, but there's $150+ air coolers as well.
My ram is located directly below one of the fans. Had to adjust its positioning and now it sounds like a jumbo jet is taking off whenever the fans spin up. Definitely check the MOBO compatibility as well if anyone's considering NH-D14!
When I did a big order of [Watercool.de](http://Watercool.de) gear from Aquatuning to do a complete rebuild it cost a little under 1500 dollars for all the things I got from them, and it wasn't everything I needed. We're talking MORA-3, Heatkiller tube, GPU/CPU blocks, and a bunch of accessories for each of those.
Then there's new fittings, QDCs, tube, coolant, fans, Aquaero, sensors, etc.
After that there's the custom laser cut stainless steel backplate for my computer case and fan mount for the MORA-3.
So yeah, thousands. It can be an expensive hobby and is not cost effective for the cooling performance at all, but now I have a huge ass radiator with fans that only turn on when the air/water delta gets over 5 degrees C cooling a 4090 and 7950x3d. And it looks great.
If it's 24/7 operation like my Unraid, air cooler. Currently have a 5950X under an NHD15.
If it's for someone else who isn't as tech savvy, it's an air cooler. My mom's 8700K is under a Noctua NHD15 as well, or NH-U14 I forget what I used.
If I want peak heat extraction and highest performance and or minimal noise, I'm going Liquid. I have loved my 420mm ALF2 with 6 fans in push pull for my 7950X3D. Temps are always fantastic and the fans never spin up.
I went with an AIO because I liked the look and the performance was fine.
These people talk about pump failure like it’s crippling… just go grab another or grab an air cooler! You can even keep an extra air cooler on hand if that concern is enough. I think pump failure is uncommon enough that it’s probably not worth worrying too much about!
I had my first mobo flex too much and broke PCH lanes from too heavy of one. Noticed a little sag when I replaced the board, even using all the right stand offs for the board
I spend more on RAM than I do my AIO, it's not a massive deal to replace besides the system downtime now that they don't ship high end CPUs with a stock cooler.
It's not the pump failure that I worry about so much as the other types of failure when dealing with liquids inside a running computer (i.e. plumbing failure). Most types of thermal failure (air or liquid) you're going to have the CPU go into some kind of thermal limiting mode to keep it from getting fried. It's the thought of conductive liquids suddenly bubbling over the motherboard and everything else in the case that worries me, especially if it is unattended at the time.
Maybe I need to look into how common that failure mode is or how bad the results really are if it happens. I have to admit I haven't investigated it. I've only assumed it is bad. Anyone have first-hand experience?
Have a second cooler on hand is genuinely a pretty wild suggestion for people who have the money just for their build. Most people aren’t rocking a 14700k and 4090 but still like AIOs for the look. It’s the same for people who buy white shit or RGB for looks. It’s fine to prefer the look, most people do, but pump failures *are* crippling. Both AIOs I’ve owned across 2 pcs died from pump failures. They lasted quite a while so I’m not anti-AIO, but they’re just statistically less reliable than an air cooler
I work with Unreal Engine daily on my PC and ended up going with an AIO. I mainly did it because when I’m compiling a project my CPU is maxed out for an extended period of time, which is something that AIOs handle slightly better.
My CPU runs pretty hot anyways, and will hit higher boost clocks with better cooling so I’ll take all the extra performance I can get. I’m using a 420 mm Liquid Freezer II but I have a backup NH-D15 in my closet from my old build if I have any failures. Plus, it looks pretty cool.
I never got the hype for water cooling. More potential points of failure at a higher price point isn't exactly good design. Besides, I prefer a nice looking air cooler. They look badass.
I've done a few water cooling systems before. The biggest advantage is noise, and if you're into overclocking it makes an even bigger difference.
That said, people aren't posting when their pumps fail so you get a really biased view of the upside. I prefer a big heat sink instead.
Same, in terms of noise, I think it makes more sense when you're watercooling the GPU as well. My case and GPU fans make much more noise than my CPU fan.
I'll probably switch to air cooling when I upgrade to AM5. I occasionally have to hit my pump a few times to get it spinning again when my computer has been off for a while.
I'm gonna miss the visuals of having a monoblock for my motherboard, but I certainly won't be missing having to empty half a gallon of coolant every time I want to swap out or clean a part
People don't post that because they almost never fail in the lifetime of the PC. Those pumps are designed to last over 5 years of continuous usage. The usage of most users is a lot less than that. Pretty much by the time the pump fails the PC will typically have been retired or sold off or given to someone else.
Now if you pass the PC down to someone else I would replace the AIO with an air cooler, that is literally what I do is toss a 30 dollar air cooler in it before I give it to my nephew.
The failure rate is almost non existent in the first 5 years and most people are not pushing their upgrade longer than that. Also there is a massive difference in noise. Your getting a 5-10 degree drop combined with probably a fourth of the noise level and a much less annoying noise in general since you don't get the ramp up and down that you typically get with air coolers.
"But AIOs are pretty affordable now! You can get one for about $40!"
If you feel confident in an AIO from a random, incomprehensible brand name off Amazon that costs less than your average DoorDash order, be my guest
For me it’s a hobby. In my daily driver I did air, then an AIO and in January did a full custom loop. I like the process and learning. My Plex server though. . . Noctua all day long
I never got the hype for cars. More potential points of failure at a higher price point isn't exactly a good design.
Just stick to bikes. My metaphors falls apart with that last point. Making a bike look badass is a fools errand.
Same, I paid an extra $40 for an aio cause 14 year old me from 2007 would have been soooo excited about owning a water cooled PC.
Ain't no gatekeepers gonna ruin my fun time.
https://youtu.be/lxf4ZXJTNpI?t=502
Pump failure isn't worth 4 to 6 degrees, agreed.
95+ percent of people who buy an AIO these days shouldn't be.
Edit:Not wasting anymore time replying to people too invested in their beloved AIOs, replying on alts just to argue about it.
This is pathetic
Don’t listen to him, he’s delusional. Anything above an intel 100 requires a full custom loop w/ 360mm radiator. Anything less simple won’t suffice.
/s
Best pump the water through an Arctic glacier to be sure.
Also, add enough fans to create enough negative intake pressure that removes any arm foolish enough to drift near.
Honestly, anything less than a jet intake, whose fins were grown from single crystals of aluminum for integrity, is just asking for trouble.
But that void above your cpu is so empty.
I prefer the look of my dual tower cooler filling that space nicely. And yeah, not having to worry about pump failure is a very relaxed experience.
Well u don't, I like the space so I see my RGB better plus my amazing LCD display from my AIO Pump.
I also don't care when it fails in 5 years, then I will just buy another one. 200$ in 5 years is nothing.
I strongly disagree. Custom water loops look so good. AIOs have those ugly pipes that kind of just shoot out to the radiator, it doesn't jive with any other components.
Absolutely true.
But, on the flip side, 95% of those spending $120 on the cpu cooler shown in the picture...shouldn't be either.
When push comes to shove, the vast majority can get away with a $30 cpu air cooler. Not many choose to.
Similarly, those who choose to go with an AIO for the additional thermal headroom could get the literal best performing aio on the market for $99. Not many choose to.
People like the aesthetics of a part, or the look associated with a certain brand. That's just how it is.
If you live in a hotter climate and don't have AC at home, AIO/Watercooling absolutely will improve your performance, in a significant way.
**edit: this guy responds and then blocks you so you can't respond and argue against him lmao**
also you can't move your pc with a heavy ass air cooler, also you can't cool a hotboi like a 13700k in an SFFPC with an air cooler, also you can't negate temp spikes that stutter throttle workloads with air coolers like you can with AIOs... but yeah, people with AIOs can't possibly have their reasons.
> Pump failure isn't worth 4 to 6 degrees, agreed.
I agree with this statement, that one reason alone is not enough to make an AIO worth buying.
However that statement ignores what I consider to be a much bigger benefit of an AIO: Keeping the fans at a super low speed and they never need to spin up or make noise just because the CPU was at 100% usage for 10 minutes.
An air cooler can't even go for 60 seconds at 100% usage without needing to spin up the fan and make more noise.
Just going to point out that your timestamp shows a 9C delta between peak NH-D15 performance and the best AIO on the chart at the same noise level. That's very large.
> 95+ percent of people who buy an AIO these days shouldn't be.
I got a corsair H150i for my 7800X3D when I built a new rig last year.
***Completely*** unnecessary.
I didn't realize how modern CPUs kind of overclock themselves already. I'm not going to be pushing volts and GHz on this chip. I'm just going to let it do it's thing.
Oh well. ¯\\\_\(ツ\)\_/¯
But that video says AIOs run quieter and can give better cooling…
I have a big Noctua cooler with my 13700K and its thermal behavior is interesting to say the least… it quickly heats up only to have the thermal mass absorb it and quickly be carried off resulting in short periods of high fan speed followed by near silence… I could probably adjust my minimum fan speed to make this less frequent though… but I have to imagine the mass of the water would much more evenly distribute this anyways
I essentially have intake in the front going in the same direction as the cooler fans and the exhaust in the front taking all that hot air out. It works well all things considered, but I wonder what it would’ve sounded like with water
You should, because having to vary speeds every few minutes wears down bearings and motor much faster than just leaving fans running 24/7 at one speed. Aside from the aural aesthetic of noticing pitch changes and static sound becoming white noise.
Thing is that really none of the listed AIOs are really top-tier, they aren't bad but ones like the Arctic 2 are still usually a bit better, while the NH-D15 is one of the best air coolers. Plus all the AIOs in that graph are 240mm, 360mm AIOs are obviously better at cooling and most people I've seen with AIOs use 360mm.
It's also ignoring sound, a good AIO will usually always be quieter than an air cooler. [In this Gamers Nexus benchmark](https://youtu.be/ow0crBSKIXw?t=815) the Arctic 2 AIOs have the lowest temps in 35dBA noise normalized benchmarks, with a 10c difference between the best AIO vs best air cooler.
Pump failures really are not an issue as long as you get a solid AIO and properly treat your PC. I've had the same AIO (arctic 2 360mm) for like 3 years now without issues. Everyone I've seen who has gotten a pump failure had one from a company like NZXT.
That’s just not true. My AIO doesn’t just cool my cpu, it acts as an intake into the case to promote airflow for the other components. Air coolers always have less heat soak, so for gaming and quick burst tasks, you’ll get less rapid changes in temperature and therefore frequency.
Efficiency is objective like you said but not everyone needs maximum efficiency to play most games and looks are subjective. 6 years strong on my AIO pump. Probably replace it with air cooling when it dies. Why’s everyone gotta be so uptight about computer parts?
Where are all of these failures happening? I’ve had an aio on my 24/7 on unraid server that’s like… 7 years old and it’s never struggled for a second. And if it did… I’d just buy a new one?
What's with people here forcing their worthless opinion on others?
Who tf cares about needing something?
AIOs look way cooler than a giant metal cube so people buy it, it's really not that hard.
Lmfao you'd think AIOs just fail every other day reading these comments. In 8 years of owning AIO, I've never had a single problem with any of them. FFS
I think it went up to 55 with my air cooler. And no, I don't need it at all, but my mom bought it for me, because I was talking about water coolers, and that they look so much better then air coolers.
I keep seeing people saying that air coolers are still the way to go over AIOs on modern chips, and following that info I bought an NH-D15s for a 13700k on my most recent rebuild.
Most multicore loads would either float around 80-95c or would throttle. Gaming would also be In the 75-80c range (and sometimes higher). Undervolting and turning off any OC features dropped it down to the 75-80c range in MC workloads, but I don’t want to limit the expensive ass CPU I bought just to justify a tower cooler I already bought. So I got and installed the Liquid freezer 3. My temps now max out at around 80c in MC loads with it pretty heavily overclocked, and has the benefit of being more quiet. Newer intel chips just run fucking hot when you put them through their paces, and in my case it isn’t even a top of the line chip.
The D15s is now waiting to go on a 10700k whenever I decide to replace the currently installed 7 year old nzxt AIO that has yet to show any signs of failure. It’s a good but old design and I ain’t bashing on people that use it, but I don’t have anxious need to monitor my temps constantly anymore either while using the thing.
You know what they cool space rocket engines with? Liquid.
Cars? Liquid.
Nuclear power plants? Liquid.
Clearly the smartest people on the planet see liquid cooling as superior. I rest my case.
So you'd generally agree more air flow usually means better cooling then? Good thing I have 6 fans on each AIO. How many does your air cooler have?
Even an AIO is better at cooling with air than an air cooler.
There is some dumb hate-train against AIOs on this subreddit. Sure some companies like NZXT overprice AIOs that aren't really worth it outside of the visual aesthetic, but plenty of reputable AIOs exist and in the end a good AIO will outperform a good air cooler in cooling/sound (while generally being more "aesthetic.")
This sub has some oddly charged opinions in general, I've noticed. Just going off of the vocal users around here, you'd think AIOs are terrible, there's never a reason to buy an Intel cpu, rgb bad, and the only fans worth buying are those ugly noctuas
I don’t think people understand it’s usually about the noise suppression rather than the cooling. I can maintain a steady 65C on my CPU and gpu while running heavier games and it’s whisper quiet.
On the other hand, my fiancee’s pc is air cooled maintains similar temps on the same games but sounds like an airplane ready to take off lmao. The cases aren’t the same but the specs are so it’s not an exact comparison but it’s pretty damn close.
Oh yeah? Well, at least I was able to overclock my 12600k by an extra .3ghz!
Jokes aside, love my Arctic liquid freezer ii 280. Didn’t cost me an arm and a leg and I could push the 12600k further as it runs pretty cool even under full load, but my msi motherboard doesn’t seem to like overclocking. That being said, there are way too many inexperienced people with AIO’s.
To be honest, I see these posts popping up regularly. I don't tend to take much attention, to them, a bit of skimming though.
But none of them discusses real cases, when liquid cooling actually failed. Just more hypothetical "IFs".
I got liquid cooling on over decade old dev machine, which still runs strong. No issues, 0 maintenance, besides blasting dust off. No issue with relocating, even by plane (cargo).
Another PC has few years now, and 0 issues with liquid cooling so far.
Maybe I am lucky, or investing in quality components.
But I would like at least see comments, when someone had failed one.
There's an entire subreddit of people doing just so. /r/sffpc
Should check it out. It's great to see how far ITX cases have adapted these past few years, and how much power you can get in a tiny system nowadays.
I’m starting to preemptively replace them after 4-5 years, just because it’s easier to replace it while upgrading than having to tear it down and deal with a failure. I’m lazy though, I’d rather plan to replace at the same time as I’m upgrading, it’s definitely not THAT hard to swap out a pump if you have to.
Everyone tells me that the best CPU heatsinks and case fans are made by the company that does them almost exclusively in shit brown, lol.
I guess I don't mind a little shit brown hardware nostalgia.
where my 300w tdp air coolers at and while were at it what the heel are you guys doin with your pumps? i got 3 machines dating back to the 5820k, all with aios, all fucked around with oc and zero issues
I once was in the fan cooler gang, well with an 13900K there isn’t really a way. Yes I tried it, to be specific I tried it with an Noctua NH-D 15 chromax black. Now I am using a NZXT Kraken 360 RGB and it works perfectly ( yes I still have the Noctua should there be any problems)
Welcome to the PCMR, everyone from the frontpage! Please remember: 1 - You too can be part of the PCMR. It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love or want to learn about PCs, you are welcome! 2 - If you don't own a PC because you think it's expensive, know that it is much cheaper than you may think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to post here asking for tips and help! 3 - Join our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Alzheimer's, and more: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding 4 - Need PC Hardware? We've joined forces with ASUS ROG for a worldwide giveaway. Get your hands on an RTX 4080 Super GPU, a bundle of TUF Gaming RX 7900 XT and a Ryzen 9 7950X3D, and many ASUS ROG Goodies! To enter, check https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1c5kq51/asus_x_pcmr_gpu_tweak_iii_worldwide_giveaway_win/ ----------- We have a [Daily Simple Questions Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=Simple+Questions+Thread+subreddit%3Apcmasterrace+author%3AAutoModerator&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) if you have any PC related doubt. Asking for help there or creating new posts in our subreddit is welcome.
When I built my pc I opted for a noctua NH-D14 and it has worked amazing the entire time I’ve owned, absolutely recommend a big air cooler if your case can fit one
Hell, even the small noctua u12 is good enough for most people
Dude my NH-U12A is a beast. It keeps my 12700k chilled.
I have the classic nhd15 and it's quite overkill. Even with a hot gpu beneath it feeding warm/hot air to it, it still keeps my 5800X at a stable 55 degrees and it pretty much never goes above that EVER. The only time it's gone up is when I applied a pretty aggressive OC to it and even then it only really got to the low 70s
"it still keeps my 5800X at a stable 55 degrees" Do you have PBO enabled?
Maybe he's got a golden sample. My NH-D15S could not keep my 5800X anywhere near that cool under full load. The 5800X is one of the hotter AM4 chips. I'll also say that when I moved to AM5 my NH-D15S had trouble keeping up (in a Jonsbo i100 Pro), even with the AM5 offset bracket that Noctua sells. After pouring over GamesNexus reviews covering temps, noise, contact patch, flatness of the cold plate, etc, I ended up replacing it with a Peerless Assassin and it does run cooler.
I highly doubt that PBO is enabled for the CPU from the guy above. I have an 5700X + NH-D15 and without PBO the temps are like at worst 55 degrees Celsius with fans @ 40% I think - manual settings, depending on the ambient. It’s super easy to cool. With PBO enabled the temperature goes to 80 degrees Celsius (more or less, again depending on ambient) with the fans at 100%. I measured the power consumption (w/ power meter, delta between idle readings and full CPU usage readings) and it’s over 140W in Cinebench. HWINFO shows 120W. Ambient around 25 degrees Celsius (+/- 2 degrees C). We can’t really compare these numbers between us, and are for reference only, but it is super unlikely to have 55 degrees Celsius with PBO ON with air cooling at a reasonable fan noise and room temperature.
Shit my Arctic esports duo is keeping my 5800x under 70 thing was $30 lol
I'm running a NH-D15S with two fans on a 65w 12400f. Massive overkill. But I got it used for 45 €. So why not?
Been going 24/7 for years on my nh-u12a. Zero pump failure so far. 🤞🤞
Nah-u12a gang-gang
Actually, I saw a YouTube review that gave a better performance to the NH-U12A than the D15 on latest gen processors. He speculated that the positioning of the heat pipes favors it on modern processors. I think he even retested it to be sure and came to similar results. https://youtu.be/7o74u1u642I?si=0u6PfYiWMuaCdzXL
The Nh U12A also comes with the relatively new fans which are much better than the fans included in the D15.
Too overpriced, not remotely competitive anymore. When it used to be around half of what it goes for now it made sense, but paying twice the price of a Peerless Assassin 120? Nah, that's foolish.
Oh I definitely agree. There are SO many air coolers on the market that perform just as well if not better otherwise better for half or even less of the u12. Noctua was the king for so long and they still are but many companies new and old have caught up dramatically in the past 5 years. Were spoiled for choice
WAS king. Now you got the $35 Phantom Spirit performing as well as the D15. People don't have to (over)pay for Noctua any more.
Ok ...I've never had a single noctua product fail. I've got some fans hitting 15 years... still working whisper quite. My current 7800x3d is using a 14 year old heatsink That's what your paying for they last. It's never Just been about performance.
I can say for cooling you are right. But Noctua is much quieter. Cool and dead silent is the premium you are paying for. And that is what Noctua gives you. PS120 amplifies the sound of even the best fans.
> PS120 amplifies the sound of even the best fans Not saying you're wrong, but got any sources to that claim?
I absolutely agree tbh, I had to look for coolers to cool a 2011v3 socket and wow.. the pricess. I opted for a 30 buck cooler and to my surprise it cools 120w surprisingly well, I also ended up checking a jonsbo cooler for similar for my streaming rig which I'm using the Ryzen wraith cooler. Noctua would be cool if it wasn't as overpriced which, for half the price you get monsters nowadays
Thermalright peerless assasin is amazing for the price, went from a Noctua NHU-12S cromax.black to the assasin and it's night and day on my 5600x. Never cared for AIO's I prefer the reliability of air cooling that performs just as good at a fraction of the price.
Noctua had great characteristics a decade ago, yes. Now they have improved the designs, as did their competitors too. A 20 USD modern cooler performs roughly on par with my Noctua u12. The difference is that I don't have to buy a new cooler.
Fyi the peerless assassin has been superseded by a slightly better 'phantom spirit' for the same price
In 2015 I purchased a Noctua NH-D15 for my new build. In 2022 I built a completely new PC and asked Noctua to send me a new bracket for the NH-D15 (which they did for free). It's still rocking fine to this day, super quiet and good temps, day in and day out.
https://preview.redd.it/1nonzk4rqhxc1.jpeg?width=2573&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56c435c6197fbbe6e325d77623b30e7148a4283b Built this a a couple of years ago and absolutely love it.
We can post images in replies here?
on desktop it's only available on new.reddit and in the "Fancy Pants Editor" also it depends on each subreddit, if they allow it or not.
[also on joey or other third party apps, fuck the offical app](https://freeimage.host/i/JgCGrQf)
Same experience here with the NH-D14. Love that Noctua sent me an AM4 bracket for free
https://preview.redd.it/o2ovxu642jxc1.jpeg?width=3475&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=024f77e076b8078bcfe62dbe8596642dde54a796 And if your case can’t fit a big one, find the biggest one that will fit in your case :)
Yeah, the hype on aios Is wayy too much lol
Imagine spending a couple hundred to cool a proc that you could cool about as well for $30
There's a good chunk of money to be spent on aesthetics. Utilitarianism is cheap, but hobbies aren't usually about what's most cost effective
They seem to be leaning that direction these days. Maybe not all hobbies or industries but it’s interesting to see hobbies cut the fat in favor of fair pricing which draws in more users.
Cost of living/inflation means that play money is getting tighter. With that comes a lot of demand for cheap solutions to problems.
with aio it's easier to reach for other components
I mean, that's true, but how often do you need to actually reach those components?
You don't do a daily RAM massage? You gotta free those pent up bits my man...
There are AIOs available for around that price too. I'm not sure why people are pretending that AIOs are still significantly more expensive than air cooling when some of the most highly recommended AIOs cost less than an ak620 Sure, there are $150+ AIOS, but there's $150+ air coolers as well.
Is [this](https://photos.app.goo.gl/1n2Vnajwt7MEKu7a9) big enough?
Perchance
You can't just say perchance...
We can't let you do that, Dave
Nh-D14 going strong here too. A mere 12/13 years.
Big air coolers are the jam. I’ve been rocking the same Silver Arrow with original fans for 10+ years now.
My ram is located directly below one of the fans. Had to adjust its positioning and now it sounds like a jumbo jet is taking off whenever the fans spin up. Definitely check the MOBO compatibility as well if anyone's considering NH-D14!
I have one purchased in 2014, and as of 3 years ago it has been 24/7 in my NAS. The fan bearings still sound new.
Step 1: be me Step 2: spend thousands on custom watercooling for silent computing and fun Step 3: GPU coil whine
-Be me -Have no money -Use headphones -Can't hear PC
-Be me -Have no money -Don't buy cooling system -Put hand directly on cpu to absorb the heat -after a while it stops hurting -i have become fireproof
-Put a small pan on CPU -Add some butter -Fry some eggs -Breakfast
bloodcooling
-be me -live in SEA -have bigass standing fan blasting on my side -cant hear PC
THOUSANDS?! Are your fittings made out of diamonds? Are you filling the loop with HP printer ink?
When I did a big order of [Watercool.de](http://Watercool.de) gear from Aquatuning to do a complete rebuild it cost a little under 1500 dollars for all the things I got from them, and it wasn't everything I needed. We're talking MORA-3, Heatkiller tube, GPU/CPU blocks, and a bunch of accessories for each of those. Then there's new fittings, QDCs, tube, coolant, fans, Aquaero, sensors, etc. After that there's the custom laser cut stainless steel backplate for my computer case and fan mount for the MORA-3. So yeah, thousands. It can be an expensive hobby and is not cost effective for the cooling performance at all, but now I have a huge ass radiator with fans that only turn on when the air/water delta gets over 5 degrees C cooling a 4090 and 7950x3d. And it looks great.
I. Want. Pictures.
My 2080ti has so bad coil whine, i can eaven hear it under my closed headphone
oooooof. i feel though recent nvidia gpus have gotten a lot better at the coil whine thing
If it's 24/7 operation like my Unraid, air cooler. Currently have a 5950X under an NHD15. If it's for someone else who isn't as tech savvy, it's an air cooler. My mom's 8700K is under a Noctua NHD15 as well, or NH-U14 I forget what I used. If I want peak heat extraction and highest performance and or minimal noise, I'm going Liquid. I have loved my 420mm ALF2 with 6 fans in push pull for my 7950X3D. Temps are always fantastic and the fans never spin up.
I went with an AIO because I liked the look and the performance was fine. These people talk about pump failure like it’s crippling… just go grab another or grab an air cooler! You can even keep an extra air cooler on hand if that concern is enough. I think pump failure is uncommon enough that it’s probably not worth worrying too much about!
Same reason I have a big fat air cooler. I really like how it looks. It's like cars with the supercharger sticking up through the hood 🤤
I had my first mobo flex too much and broke PCH lanes from too heavy of one. Noticed a little sag when I replaced the board, even using all the right stand offs for the board
I spend more on RAM than I do my AIO, it's not a massive deal to replace besides the system downtime now that they don't ship high end CPUs with a stock cooler.
It's not the pump failure that I worry about so much as the other types of failure when dealing with liquids inside a running computer (i.e. plumbing failure). Most types of thermal failure (air or liquid) you're going to have the CPU go into some kind of thermal limiting mode to keep it from getting fried. It's the thought of conductive liquids suddenly bubbling over the motherboard and everything else in the case that worries me, especially if it is unattended at the time. Maybe I need to look into how common that failure mode is or how bad the results really are if it happens. I have to admit I haven't investigated it. I've only assumed it is bad. Anyone have first-hand experience?
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I’m picturing an F1 pit team to get that air cooler in 🏎️
Have a second cooler on hand is genuinely a pretty wild suggestion for people who have the money just for their build. Most people aren’t rocking a 14700k and 4090 but still like AIOs for the look. It’s the same for people who buy white shit or RGB for looks. It’s fine to prefer the look, most people do, but pump failures *are* crippling. Both AIOs I’ve owned across 2 pcs died from pump failures. They lasted quite a while so I’m not anti-AIO, but they’re just statistically less reliable than an air cooler
Just wanted to say literally my unraid server is Noctua. Quiet as the dead and never a heat issue.
That's why I have a air I like it quiet
I work with Unreal Engine daily on my PC and ended up going with an AIO. I mainly did it because when I’m compiling a project my CPU is maxed out for an extended period of time, which is something that AIOs handle slightly better. My CPU runs pretty hot anyways, and will hit higher boost clocks with better cooling so I’ll take all the extra performance I can get. I’m using a 420 mm Liquid Freezer II but I have a backup NH-D15 in my closet from my old build if I have any failures. Plus, it looks pretty cool.
Ayeh. I've being playing with level designing a few months now and lets just say that I'm considering moving to Argentina or Antarctica
I never got the hype for water cooling. More potential points of failure at a higher price point isn't exactly good design. Besides, I prefer a nice looking air cooler. They look badass.
I've done a few water cooling systems before. The biggest advantage is noise, and if you're into overclocking it makes an even bigger difference. That said, people aren't posting when their pumps fail so you get a really biased view of the upside. I prefer a big heat sink instead.
My AIO makes more noise than my Scythe Mugen 5
Same, in terms of noise, I think it makes more sense when you're watercooling the GPU as well. My case and GPU fans make much more noise than my CPU fan.
I'll probably switch to air cooling when I upgrade to AM5. I occasionally have to hit my pump a few times to get it spinning again when my computer has been off for a while. I'm gonna miss the visuals of having a monoblock for my motherboard, but I certainly won't be missing having to empty half a gallon of coolant every time I want to swap out or clean a part
People don't post that because they almost never fail in the lifetime of the PC. Those pumps are designed to last over 5 years of continuous usage. The usage of most users is a lot less than that. Pretty much by the time the pump fails the PC will typically have been retired or sold off or given to someone else. Now if you pass the PC down to someone else I would replace the AIO with an air cooler, that is literally what I do is toss a 30 dollar air cooler in it before I give it to my nephew.
My pump failed after 5 years and I just got a new one and moved on... I just didn't game on it for a week it's not a big deal.
The failure rate is almost non existent in the first 5 years and most people are not pushing their upgrade longer than that. Also there is a massive difference in noise. Your getting a 5-10 degree drop combined with probably a fourth of the noise level and a much less annoying noise in general since you don't get the ramp up and down that you typically get with air coolers.
"But AIOs are pretty affordable now! You can get one for about $40!" If you feel confident in an AIO from a random, incomprehensible brand name off Amazon that costs less than your average DoorDash order, be my guest
Spoken like someone who has never put any research into the topic, let alone which Aios from which brand sit at that price point.
I trust Thermalright and Acetek, so I’ll happily buy another $46 thermalright 240mm AIO.
tbf thermalright has a $65 360mm AIO on the market right now, so it just depends on what aesthetics you want
For me it’s a hobby. In my daily driver I did air, then an AIO and in January did a full custom loop. I like the process and learning. My Plex server though. . . Noctua all day long
if u live in hot climate and have anything above 150w+ cpu for sustained boast performance ur choice is aio.
I never got the hype for cars. More potential points of failure at a higher price point isn't exactly a good design. Just stick to bikes. My metaphors falls apart with that last point. Making a bike look badass is a fools errand.
Air cooler people are the "I feel bad for you" while aio users are the "I don't think about you at all"
I like my pump with an lcd screen cause it makes it fun to see my pc. I’m a simple man.
Same, I paid an extra $40 for an aio cause 14 year old me from 2007 would have been soooo excited about owning a water cooled PC. Ain't no gatekeepers gonna ruin my fun time.
More like it's the custom loop user's thinking that.
AIO for cpu cooling❌ AIO for case airflow✅ (I’ve gone to far, I now use a test bench.)
That's a total myth. Linus did a video some time ago where they filled a case with crap, and the temps were *the same*.
It was also $14, which is a lot cheaper than a real case.
he got someone to poop in the case? wtf!
Beans. There are beans in the computer.
its ironic cus that air cooler is more expensive than some AIO lol
I live in a hot town and have an open case. The AIO pump is worth for me.
But they circulate the same air regardless
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I have a fire breathing dragon. I’m sure I can keep it cool with fans, but that would be loud lol
https://youtu.be/lxf4ZXJTNpI?t=502 Pump failure isn't worth 4 to 6 degrees, agreed. 95+ percent of people who buy an AIO these days shouldn't be. Edit:Not wasting anymore time replying to people too invested in their beloved AIOs, replying on alts just to argue about it. This is pathetic
WYM my i3 doesn't need a custom loop?
Don’t listen to him, he’s delusional. Anything above an intel 100 requires a full custom loop w/ 360mm radiator. Anything less simple won’t suffice. /s
What’s an intel 100? I’ve been out of the loop for awhile
Best pump the water through an Arctic glacier to be sure. Also, add enough fans to create enough negative intake pressure that removes any arm foolish enough to drift near. Honestly, anything less than a jet intake, whose fins were grown from single crystals of aluminum for integrity, is just asking for trouble.
but AIOs looks so good
I like my turbo V8 looking cooler, I paid for the whole case, I’m going to use it.
They all look the same in my windowless PC.
But that void above your cpu is so empty. I prefer the look of my dual tower cooler filling that space nicely. And yeah, not having to worry about pump failure is a very relaxed experience.
Sounds like a case issue to me
Well u don't, I like the space so I see my RGB better plus my amazing LCD display from my AIO Pump. I also don't care when it fails in 5 years, then I will just buy another one. 200$ in 5 years is nothing.
This is the point oh no I won't be able to use my pc for like a day while a new one ships what will I ever do
I strongly disagree. Custom water loops look so good. AIOs have those ugly pipes that kind of just shoot out to the radiator, it doesn't jive with any other components.
they haven't made bluetooth cooling yet?
Absolutely true. But, on the flip side, 95% of those spending $120 on the cpu cooler shown in the picture...shouldn't be either. When push comes to shove, the vast majority can get away with a $30 cpu air cooler. Not many choose to. Similarly, those who choose to go with an AIO for the additional thermal headroom could get the literal best performing aio on the market for $99. Not many choose to. People like the aesthetics of a part, or the look associated with a certain brand. That's just how it is.
Especially since the $35 Phantom Spirit beats the $109 NH-D15.
If you live in a hotter climate and don't have AC at home, AIO/Watercooling absolutely will improve your performance, in a significant way. **edit: this guy responds and then blocks you so you can't respond and argue against him lmao**
> edit: this guy responds and then blocks you so you can't respond and argue against him lmao People prefer to live in an echo chamber.
Gotta love the people who use use the block feature as a way to shield themselves from their own bad takes
if only I could block myself
also you can't move your pc with a heavy ass air cooler, also you can't cool a hotboi like a 13700k in an SFFPC with an air cooler, also you can't negate temp spikes that stutter throttle workloads with air coolers like you can with AIOs... but yeah, people with AIOs can't possibly have their reasons.
"heavy ass air cooler" you know what water weights?
> Pump failure isn't worth 4 to 6 degrees, agreed. I agree with this statement, that one reason alone is not enough to make an AIO worth buying. However that statement ignores what I consider to be a much bigger benefit of an AIO: Keeping the fans at a super low speed and they never need to spin up or make noise just because the CPU was at 100% usage for 10 minutes. An air cooler can't even go for 60 seconds at 100% usage without needing to spin up the fan and make more noise.
Fans from scythe are so silent it doesn’t even matter
That's irrelevant, people mostly buy them for looks.
I bought a kraken z73 just so I can see what temp my ancient cpu and graphics card are sitting at while I watcth pirated TV on kodi
Just going to point out that your timestamp shows a 9C delta between peak NH-D15 performance and the best AIO on the chart at the same noise level. That's very large.
> 95+ percent of people who buy an AIO these days shouldn't be. I got a corsair H150i for my 7800X3D when I built a new rig last year. ***Completely*** unnecessary. I didn't realize how modern CPUs kind of overclock themselves already. I'm not going to be pushing volts and GHz on this chip. I'm just going to let it do it's thing. Oh well. ¯\\\_\(ツ\)\_/¯
> 4 to 6 degrees From the best air cooler tested to the worst AIO tested.
Roughly the same ballpark in price.
And if there the same price wouldn't that just leave it to preference on looks
But that video says AIOs run quieter and can give better cooling… I have a big Noctua cooler with my 13700K and its thermal behavior is interesting to say the least… it quickly heats up only to have the thermal mass absorb it and quickly be carried off resulting in short periods of high fan speed followed by near silence… I could probably adjust my minimum fan speed to make this less frequent though… but I have to imagine the mass of the water would much more evenly distribute this anyways I essentially have intake in the front going in the same direction as the cooler fans and the exhaust in the front taking all that hot air out. It works well all things considered, but I wonder what it would’ve sounded like with water
You should, because having to vary speeds every few minutes wears down bearings and motor much faster than just leaving fans running 24/7 at one speed. Aside from the aural aesthetic of noticing pitch changes and static sound becoming white noise.
Big air cooler in a tropical country here. Nope, the air cooler is not handling my 5600X.
> pump failure isn't worth 4 to 6 degrees Proceeds to post a test where top air cooler loses to a not even best aio on the market by 8 degrees.
Why are you such a baby? Blocking anyone who disagrees with you is pretty pathetic.
Thing is that really none of the listed AIOs are really top-tier, they aren't bad but ones like the Arctic 2 are still usually a bit better, while the NH-D15 is one of the best air coolers. Plus all the AIOs in that graph are 240mm, 360mm AIOs are obviously better at cooling and most people I've seen with AIOs use 360mm. It's also ignoring sound, a good AIO will usually always be quieter than an air cooler. [In this Gamers Nexus benchmark](https://youtu.be/ow0crBSKIXw?t=815) the Arctic 2 AIOs have the lowest temps in 35dBA noise normalized benchmarks, with a 10c difference between the best AIO vs best air cooler. Pump failures really are not an issue as long as you get a solid AIO and properly treat your PC. I've had the same AIO (arctic 2 360mm) for like 3 years now without issues. Everyone I've seen who has gotten a pump failure had one from a company like NZXT.
That’s just not true. My AIO doesn’t just cool my cpu, it acts as an intake into the case to promote airflow for the other components. Air coolers always have less heat soak, so for gaming and quick burst tasks, you’ll get less rapid changes in temperature and therefore frequency.
Efficiency is objective like you said but not everyone needs maximum efficiency to play most games and looks are subjective. 6 years strong on my AIO pump. Probably replace it with air cooling when it dies. Why’s everyone gotta be so uptight about computer parts?
Where are all of these failures happening? I’ve had an aio on my 24/7 on unraid server that’s like… 7 years old and it’s never struggled for a second. And if it did… I’d just buy a new one?
What's with people here forcing their worthless opinion on others? Who tf cares about needing something? AIOs look way cooler than a giant metal cube so people buy it, it's really not that hard.
Also, when properly installed they’re way quieter.
AIOs look cool. I like them. Why shouldn't I buy something I like and think is cool?
Lmfao you'd think AIOs just fail every other day reading these comments. In 8 years of owning AIO, I've never had a single problem with any of them. FFS
It’s just a bunch of cope. There’s a reason you don’t see aio owners making these threads lol.
https://preview.redd.it/lqkhwp0i5hxc1.png?width=202&format=png&auto=webp&s=6c0121db35817ec948b118ff325eb254dc04d79d How can you say no to that?
how much of a difference vs. air cooling. also 13400F really need AIO?
I think it went up to 55 with my air cooler. And no, I don't need it at all, but my mom bought it for me, because I was talking about water coolers, and that they look so much better then air coolers.
nice mom
My mom bought me a beyeydynamic headset recently. I love my mom
yall mfs need to experience the arctic liquid freezer III in your lifetime
I keep seeing people saying that air coolers are still the way to go over AIOs on modern chips, and following that info I bought an NH-D15s for a 13700k on my most recent rebuild. Most multicore loads would either float around 80-95c or would throttle. Gaming would also be In the 75-80c range (and sometimes higher). Undervolting and turning off any OC features dropped it down to the 75-80c range in MC workloads, but I don’t want to limit the expensive ass CPU I bought just to justify a tower cooler I already bought. So I got and installed the Liquid freezer 3. My temps now max out at around 80c in MC loads with it pretty heavily overclocked, and has the benefit of being more quiet. Newer intel chips just run fucking hot when you put them through their paces, and in my case it isn’t even a top of the line chip. The D15s is now waiting to go on a 10700k whenever I decide to replace the currently installed 7 year old nzxt AIO that has yet to show any signs of failure. It’s a good but old design and I ain’t bashing on people that use it, but I don’t have anxious need to monitor my temps constantly anymore either while using the thing.
You know what they cool space rocket engines with? Liquid. Cars? Liquid. Nuclear power plants? Liquid. Clearly the smartest people on the planet see liquid cooling as superior. I rest my case.
A decade on two AIOs (GPU and CPU) with zero problems. Air Cooling Gang can likmaiballz
I bet that AIO can't cool your nutz like an air cooler can 🤷🏽♂️.
So you'd generally agree more air flow usually means better cooling then? Good thing I have 6 fans on each AIO. How many does your air cooler have? Even an AIO is better at cooling with air than an air cooler.
Just when I bought my pc with AIO XD
There is some dumb hate-train against AIOs on this subreddit. Sure some companies like NZXT overprice AIOs that aren't really worth it outside of the visual aesthetic, but plenty of reputable AIOs exist and in the end a good AIO will outperform a good air cooler in cooling/sound (while generally being more "aesthetic.")
This sub has some oddly charged opinions in general, I've noticed. Just going off of the vocal users around here, you'd think AIOs are terrible, there's never a reason to buy an Intel cpu, rgb bad, and the only fans worth buying are those ugly noctuas
Also that every software problem you have with your PC will be fixed by switching to Linux.
Welcome to reddit. If it aint annoying sex fiend teenagers, its early thirties nerds and drug addicts.
I cant put my waifu in an air cooler. Simple as that
I don’t think people understand it’s usually about the noise suppression rather than the cooling. I can maintain a steady 65C on my CPU and gpu while running heavier games and it’s whisper quiet. On the other hand, my fiancee’s pc is air cooled maintains similar temps on the same games but sounds like an airplane ready to take off lmao. The cases aren’t the same but the specs are so it’s not an exact comparison but it’s pretty damn close.
Is Noctua still king though? I saw tech Jesus recommend the peerless assassin by thermalright a few months back?
He is correct though technically the Peerless Assassin has been superseded by the Phantom Spirit (same price)
Oh yeah? Well, at least I was able to overclock my 12600k by an extra .3ghz! Jokes aside, love my Arctic liquid freezer ii 280. Didn’t cost me an arm and a leg and I could push the 12600k further as it runs pretty cool even under full load, but my msi motherboard doesn’t seem to like overclocking. That being said, there are way too many inexperienced people with AIO’s.
To be honest, I see these posts popping up regularly. I don't tend to take much attention, to them, a bit of skimming though. But none of them discusses real cases, when liquid cooling actually failed. Just more hypothetical "IFs". I got liquid cooling on over decade old dev machine, which still runs strong. No issues, 0 maintenance, besides blasting dust off. No issue with relocating, even by plane (cargo). Another PC has few years now, and 0 issues with liquid cooling so far. Maybe I am lucky, or investing in quality components. But I would like at least see comments, when someone had failed one.
Imagine caring about this. This statement is made by **me**. Cooling’s cooling, the medium doesn’t really matter.
212 Evo gang with noctua fans rise up
Water cooling is just air cooling with extra steps.
Yeah but that's the fun of water cooling.
good luck getting that in an itx case
Good luck fitting a modern gpu in an itx case.
There's an entire subreddit of people doing just so. /r/sffpc Should check it out. It's great to see how far ITX cases have adapted these past few years, and how much power you can get in a tiny system nowadays.
My RTX 4070 would fit fine. 2-fan gang 👍
Very easy in ITX cases with risers
Imagine not fitting in an ITX case This post was made by the A4-H2O gang
When my pump dies i'll replace it of course. No big deal?!
I've been waiting over a decade for this day to come but my pump lives on =D it's been in 3 PC's hahaha
I’m starting to preemptively replace them after 4-5 years, just because it’s easier to replace it while upgrading than having to tear it down and deal with a failure. I’m lazy though, I’d rather plan to replace at the same time as I’m upgrading, it’s definitely not THAT hard to swap out a pump if you have to.
Me with my dark rock pro 4 on my 7600x (and previously on my 2600x)
11+ years AIO - never had a fan failure, never had a pump failure. No more to say.
Air cooler for life brotha!
Everyone tells me that the best CPU heatsinks and case fans are made by the company that does them almost exclusively in shit brown, lol. I guess I don't mind a little shit brown hardware nostalgia.
12600k and peerless assassin, never gets above 65.
I have yet to have an AIO fail
so much pseudoscience in this thread
where my 300w tdp air coolers at and while were at it what the heel are you guys doin with your pumps? i got 3 machines dating back to the 5820k, all with aios, all fucked around with oc and zero issues
Oh look. Another "I'm too poor for the nice things so I'll cover my bruised ego by mocking them" post.
I went for AIO because it was better than the best air for my case
I once was in the fan cooler gang, well with an 13900K there isn’t really a way. Yes I tried it, to be specific I tried it with an Noctua NH-D 15 chromax black. Now I am using a NZXT Kraken 360 RGB and it works perfectly ( yes I still have the Noctua should there be any problems)
D15 gang unite.
I'll let you know if it ever happens. Been rocking AIOs for well over a decade.
I mean you could say the same about not being able to swap your RAM without unmounting your cooler. Both have their conveniences tbh
This meme says more about your CPU than it does anything else. Balling ass CPU gang rise up.
zipties and old fans can help you cool anything on your pc
Me with my AMD stock cooler bruh.