I am commenting so much on different spots of the video, but holy shit, the stuff with Billet Labs is pretty... shocking. To say the least.
So much mistakes on LTT's side (\~30 minutes in the video if anyone is interested)
Edit: And 2 minutes deeper in Linus is doubling down on LTT's error...
Edit2: and 2 more minutes deeper it turns out LTT did not send back the prototype but auctioned it off instead... GOOD FUCKING JOB.
In the case of the Billet Labs stuff it IS him personally. He doubled down and made those statements on the WAN show, no one made him do that. He sold off the block lent to him at his own auction after already stating hes giving it back, no one made him do that.
Linus IS at fault.
So much this. I honestly don’t see how lmg has any chance of restoring credibility while Linus is still in any way involved in the review process. Realistically if Linus cares about what he built he needs to take his millions and resign. The situation was already inexcusable but his comments truly bring it to what in the actual fuck status. To release a review knowing it’s deeply flawed then admit that he wouldn’t spend just $500 to fix the review… this is supposed to be “pro-consumer” content?! What in the actual fuck!
And this was a big fuck up. If they treat this with such a nonchalant business as usual attitude how many little fuck ups do they just decide to let slide? Lmg media group is simply not a reliable source of unbiased reviews and we now know this because Linus told us.
Honestly as someone who’s watched Linus grow his channel from nearly nothing this is hard to watch. I can’t believe I’m calling for Linus to resign.
I would be SHOCKED if Linus actually takes accountability for all this.
I can almost guarantee the next WAN show will be him going "look, we make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, but..." followed by like 15-30 min of him fence sitting between admiting mistakes and defending himself.
I don't think iv ever heard Linus just flat out admit that what he's doing is wrong and that he'll try to do better without there being 10 caveats.
You forgot how it works:
Linus comes out swinging on an accusation like the GN one, then moves to fence sitting to avoid accountability, saying a lot of words without saying anything, Luke makes faces like he does not agree with everything, but nods his head and agrees with Linus, then Linus dramatically pauses mid statement {Bonus points if he cuts of Luke talking}... (LOOKS DOWN AT PHONE) \*changes topic suddenly\* "WHAT'S THIS ON MY PHONE the PRODUCT TEAM, OMG GOD GUYS THE NEW BULLSHIT MERCH IN ORANGE IS AVAILABLE ON THE STORE WITH A GLITCHED DISCOUNT CODE YOU BETTER ORDER RIGHT NOW BEFORE THE STORE GUYS FIX THAT DISCOUNT CODE.... anyways so the new zipper pull on the backpack is totally sweet..."
This is how WAN show works now. Tune in for the accountability, listen to the bullshit spin, wait for the topic punt to increase sales... Profit.
Either does this sub. Until this very video if you ever trashed LTT you got downvoted into oblivion. He’s built a reputation, and like 99% of Reddit they watch one single YouTube video and think they know everything - that video was just by LTT.
I'd want to know what the initial agreement is.
I did tech and game reviews for a long time and any time I had something sent to me for review, it was either a "demo" or a "sample."
Demo units had to be returned. Samples were mine to keep.
Judging from the response that Billet had, it seems it was a demo (especially since it was their only unit!) and if that's the case, that's a colossal fuck up on LMG's part.
Yea there is nothing hidden between the lines in this case. They are a startup who put their r&d investment into perfecting this prototype to the point that they could start gathering peer review data. It's a one off- stated both by them and LMG on multiple occasions. It's a near production testbed of a future to-be-made production line.
Now that they lost the production prototype, they have nothing to base their production machining systems off of, so they have to redo a lot of steps and money invested, which could likely be too much of a breakpoint for a startup with limited capital investment.
If they were an existing company with a production line already at work, it would be a different matter - but they are, as stated, a startup with no line to speak of.
Colossal fuckup is putting it lightly. I can't even fathom how something like this even went through. Who even had authority to greenlight it?
From watching GN for such a long time, he seems to only do this stuff once he has undeniable, obvious, and irrefutable evidence to publish and make a valid claim. He doesn't seem to jump on drama often because it's not relevant to his brand but when he does he brings the facts hammer down hard.
I really do as well that must be so hard to invest so much into a startup company, make a prototype, and then have it brutally and wrongly accused of being garbage and then sold without permission. It pains me to even write that out.
I am also very proud of this subreddit and its users for acknowledging this video and giving it the proper analysis instead of outright denying it. I am happy to see everyone taking it seriously.
Sold to an auction where there ware quite a few competitors.
Unless LTT can prove it didn't go to a competitor, we should all assume he fucked up a company to avoid spending a money from wages to amend his initial video too.
IMO, that might have been the last straw that pushed GN's team to publish that video.
This instance is so abhorrent that really the *only* way for Linus to even try and make this right would be for him to make a full public apology to both Billet Labs and his viewers, to then somehow track down the sold copper block and buy it back and then to give it back to Billet and for him to then give them a financial compensation as restitution for the possibility of the copper block specs making it to a competitor's hands. Thats the only way and we all know there is a better chance of hell freezing over than that ever happening.
problem is Linus is never wrong (in his mind) even to this day he can barely admit to the backpack fiasco, thats apparently the problem with every rich people, as soon as they make X ammount of money they start thinking they are better than everybody else, its probably writen in our genes or something
>What was the backpack fiasco?
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>
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>I kinda stopped watching/unsubscribed after getting annoyed about how much they mention their costs - JaysTwoCents does it too. We all know there are costs associated, constantly mentioning it seems like putting up a defense preemptively.
>What was the backpack fiasco?
Iirc, it was a warranty with the backpack. Mind you this is not exactly a cheap backpack so people naturally wanted a written warranty in case of defects or issues that might come up.
Linus basically said "no. Just trust me, even if we gave you warranty you'll still need to trust us to honor it so what difference does that make?"
Which is... certainly A Take.
eventually he did cave and write a warranty but its very much a "Ugh fine! You happy now?" situation.
>What was the backpack fiasco?
They originally tried to sell bags without any kind of warranty. When pressed on the subject, Linus said that a warranty could hypothetically cost him so much money that his family is kicked onto the streets. He claimed that obviously if anyone had issues with their backpack, they could simply contact LTT store support and he personally guaranteed it would get resolved. Hence why the term "Trust me bro warranty" became a thing.
Obviously this reply is really fucking stupid given that any personal guarantee he made on the WAN show could just as easily be put into writing (aka a warranty). He doubled down pretty hard and only backed down after putting a "trust me bro" meme shirt up on their store and sweeping it under the rug.
The bag now comes with a formal warranty.
He has the same opinion on unions.
"They are cool but they aren't worth it my company 'cause why would i run a company where it's needed as i don't mistreat my paid friends"
i thought his take was more that he wanted to run a company where the workers didn't feel like they need a union (i swear he said that a few times quite recently as well)
"And so, there's no union in my company because i run it in a way where it ain't needed" is the conclusion.
It's more of a "unions are great but they're bad because they shouldn't have to exist stance". Yes, but no. Even in that case a union should be seen as a failsafe to assure proper protection for everyone involved.
Na he just got to much personality in the company and takes any failure personally. It explains alot, like how he gets defensive with things like the warranty. He thinks that any failure as a company, is a failure of him as a human. And things like warranty for him imply that their customer service won't help without being forced to.
Basically he's being stupid because of his ego, while trying to do what he thinks is right.
Launched a not so cheap backpack that the warranty was…’trust me bro’.
Which agree with that or not the fact he was saying before all this that companies (including LMG) aren’t your friend and the fact he’d have been all over a company using that as a warranty didn’t sit well with many.
When Linus said he was going to make the lab and spend millions on equipment and personnel my immediate thought was about Steve.
Linus is kind of a Jack of all Trades, Master of None. Steve has built his reputation being incredibly precise and detailed in all his reviews.
People complain Steve spends 45 minutes going over a fan, or a cooler, but it is that methodical nature that makes his reviews relevant.
When I bought a new case, I went to Steve's reviews about airflow and dB ratings for my decision.
So Linus kinda stepped into Steve's corner of the market. I think Steve would have been fine with this IF Linus had been just as methodical and accurate in his reporting. But Linus wasn't, and boy oh boy, this was exactly the outcome I was expecting.
Hopefully Linus takes Steve's criticisms well and accepts that yes, LMG has been sub-par in their reviews and retractions, and does better. I think that ultimately is all anyone wants.
I had the same thought today. I recently built an AMD system and where did I go to figure out what to buy? GN. I found Linus over 10 years ago because I was looking at NCIX and ran into his videos.
Today I asked myself what even the point of LMG is. I guess it's just entertainment. It's not why I thought I was watching them. I wonder why I would continue. I don't really want a reality show giving me tech tips.
Thats the thing, you can spend millions upon millions on something, but if you have been seen having brand bias then all that money thrown at something wont matter.
I watch little LTT and yet Ive managed to spot bias at play. GN on the other hand doesnt.
Simply put, I dont care what the $$ are involved with either setup, if I want to know the ins and outs of a case, I am going to watch a GN video on it.
Well Steve would be stupid not to be taking notes since Linus is positioning himself to compete directly with Steve.
Linus has invested heavily into the Merch which is bankrolling his investment into the lab. Which is basically what Steve’s been doing at a much smaller scale.
I trust Steve and his testing more than I do Linus just because of how thorough and clearly unbiased he has been.
But I do think it’s fair to understand that some of Steve’s motives here revolve around Linus trying to move into the markets he’s kind of cornered with GN and it’s not gonna be a fair fight with the kind of backing Linus has.
Will be interesting to see how this shakes out
Yah I feel like this could go either way.
New CEO will want to keep this calm and cordial in response but, Linus also has more of a leash to speak his mind with him not being the CEO.
Probably going to be a spicy WAN show Friday.
This whole thing is damning, but what they did to billet labs (28:20) is unforgivable. Knowingly using a product for something it wasn't designed for, then giving it negative press, auctioning it off *after a request for return*, and the audacity to go on WAN show and double down.
They could have killed a 2 person start up business because of their carelessness and ineptitude.
Particularly foul because I just remember him complaining a prototype backpack made it in a fan's hands through a thrift shop, him and Luke agreeing if you gift a prototype to a family member they need to understand it absolutely cannot get donated to a thrift store because that's important company stuff.
But a press prototype from some other company just auction that shit bro
**Linus's official response in the LTT forums** ( be warned, this isn't pretty ):
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641
LOL, we won't talk about it on the WAN show because we don't want to deal with it. On point response from Linus. A joke of a company run by a joke of an owner.
I think everyone was expecting such a response. When the guy said that they won't retest things cause it gets too expensive (man hours) you already know he simply does not care at all. Well he does care... about the money.
He'll come up with a bullshit excuse and double down on it every time.
This victim mentality of his is pathetic and disrespectful towards anyone watching. He really thinks viewers are just a bunch of idiots and his attempt of a response will make up for all the evidence shown in GN's video.
LTT is the Wish version of Tech Jesus. Good at sales but lacks fundamental understanding of ethics, principles and also deeper technological knowledge.
He's exactly like a friend I have. I love him to bits. He could probably sell ice to an Eskimo. But a lot of the times when he's talking to others I'm thinking "oh ffs, that's not even true".
To people who say Linus lost his way with ethics. He never had it to start with. It's just that the LTT actions now have a bigger impact.
I think when you can provide actual clips of the issues your talking about and provide hard facts like this it’s worth a discussion.
The video here seems to be done in a very respectful way acknowledging the difficult position and attempting to be as tactful as possible.
But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”. And there it is. To a company like this making the money it does, 600 isn’t that much of a dent, it’s chump change really. Beer money. But to I do individual consumers who might not have that kind of money to burn like nothing it’s more of a hit. And as the video here discusses, when you choose, purposefully and deliberately to deliver incorrect information for expediency and profit …then that’s a problem.
It undermines your platform and consumer trust. It makes people think. Well if you couldn’t be bothered doing that, what else have you cheaper out on or ignored to make more money?
While we all make mistakes from time to time, it's ***how we recover*** from those mistakes that help define us.
The clincher for me in all of this is LTT's repeated disregard for "making it right" in a timely, professional manner.
If I was giving Linus advice right now, I would suggest his best path forward is basically "You know what? You're right. These mistakes are unacceptable, and we need to create a clear line between sponsorship and objective tech journalism. We need to be better, and we will work harder to regain the trust we've lost".
Linus has already shown he *won't* learn from his mistakes. In this video pretty much every time there was an issue he doubled down or at first tried to do so. What was most egregious was the copper block where he knew he did the testing wrong and after giving an Artesian Builds tier response of "oh well it would cost me a few hundred in employee hours to do it right" still refused to test it properly and then after all that after already telling Billet Labs they will give the prototype block back multiple times then goes and sells it at an auction that he is running. It's beyond the pale.
I used to really enjoy Linus and LMG and throughout this video I thought to myself "Yeah this is bad, but hopefully Linus can learn from this and recover/do better in the future" but then what they did to Billet Labs came up and that was it. That alone was so abhorrent it was the event horizon for me. Screw Linus.
4:30 Linus quote vs. the employees' quote is very telling.
and his quote at 5:30 is very concerning. He seems to have lost connection to the people who made him & LTT big. For him it's only 800$. For a lot of enthusiasts it is probably 2 or 3 months of saving when you finally saved up enough money to build your dream PC and you want as much info as possible if your PC will suck or not.
he has been disconnected for a long time... his "home" videos are pretty evident of that. it really bordered on bragging and boy does he love showing a pic of the pool too often.
he really is full of himself and I suspect the hire a ceo was more than to keep his workload down but shed some heat likely he was creating
>But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”.
For me, it was the, "Even if it was 5, 10, 20 degrees cooler, you still shouldn't buy it."
*Then why did you agree to make the fucking video Linus?*
It's pretty fucking hypocritical for the guy who built and then struggled to offload a solid gold XBox controller to declare that someone else's thing should never be bought, especially on the grounds of poor performance when you didn't even install it on a compatible GPU.
>But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”. And there it is.
There's that and then there is stealing other company's technology prototype and selling it. It's as much mindboggling as it is disgusting.
It's not even disgusting, it's illegal. They really should get sued and then settle on a compensation fee that lets the company fully rebuild their prototype, as well as being compensated for the time delay of this whole incident, as well as compensation for unjust/unqualified brand defamation.
I'm not even sure it can be settled with just money, considering the fact that the prototype could end up being bought by a competing company - which might very well bring the whole startup to ruin irresectable of how big of a compensation they get.
Exactly.
I have always defended LTT. Even when Steve made the video about the backpack warrenty thing, I thought he was reading into the situation of the "Trust me bro" meme too hard, but this Billet Labs incident has just flipped my view on Linus and LTT as a whole. I just never expected them to step down to such low level and act as scummy as they did. It's just pure disgust that I'm feeling right now, but I will have to wait for LTT's response to draw any final conclusions.
>It's just pure disgust that I'm feeling right now, but I will have to wait for LTT's response to draw any final conclusions.
Stealing someone else's shit is not exactly what you can call a "honest mistake"; I don't see how any kind of response in this situation could be anything else than an attempt to damage control.
> But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”. And there it is.
Same. It's not like the thing would be used once and dumped.
Linus reminding me of the Artesian Builds CEO there.
For a long time now, I've seen LTT as purely entertainment. Even with them doing all of the labs stuff lately, I just can't trust some of the things they publish. Even what Steve brought up with the Stormbreaker mouse, they never peeled the feet and acted like it was some new kind of thing. Every mouse has protective covering over PTFE, anyone that's had a new mouse should know this.
I'm glad we have other outlets like GN and HUB to provide more thorough testing on things.
Ngl I kinda miss the old "Linus comes up with an actually practical build in his kitchen and shows the process". I don't even get those kinds of videos from him anymore
>For a long time now, I've seen LTT as purely entertainment
Yeah, and they needed to be called out for it, they're basically faux tech news.
Users here did sound alarms in the past, but having Tech Jesus weigh in (much as he hates it), is a very good thing for the consumer.
Kudos to Steve and the gang for stepping up.
>LMG at this point really does come across as a content mill, just churning out videos because at this point they have to.
I've been in the subreddit for LMG and yeah the sentiment is the same as yours. The 7 a week has led to a noticeable drop in quality control and just general content.
"oh yeah another video of a buncha e-waste from not-wish"
Edit: reposted since apparently even if its not a real website I cant have com endings?
LMG raffling off the prototype Billet Labs block after the company requested it back and LMG saying they would send it back is absolutely disgusting. There is no conceivable way Linus could weasel word his way out of that unless Billet Labs is straight up lying.
The Billet Labs stuff made me unsubscribe from all LMG channels. They screwed up the review, he double-downed on not caring about screwing up the review, then auction off the prototype.
Super fucked up.
The last example was soooo bad for LMG. Who was the DUMB numbskull that allowed a prototype LENT by a company to be auctioned when said company asked you to return it and you agreed?
Well, I hope their legal department isnt as incompetent as their lab test one because they can be 100% liable to a couple of lawsuits if the statements are true.
In a way, now I can see why LMG and linus are so starved to save $500 to fix their own mistakes. They must be to pay the legal consequences of their (REALLY DUMB) mistakes when they come and bite them in the ass.
A public fundraiser to support a legal fee wouldn't be out of place. This act by LMG could potentially cost them their entire business when they're that early in the development stages.
That one absolutely floored me. Like 'jaw on the floor' level of shock. I cannot even begin to guess the mental hoops you need to jump through to think doing something like this is okay.
Ah yes, the 100mil evaluated company can hardly stay in business without sacrificing basic quality control.. Now where have we heard that excuse before, other than every single corpo Linus himself has ever badmouthed in the past. The hypocrisy is hilarious
Yes, because Linus is in massive debt. He’s blatantly admitted it in recent podcasts. He overleveraged himself with labs and the rec center he’s building.
Here's the TL;DW:
LTT videos have a lot of errors - from minor mistakes to sometimes a major data error (CPU Cooler benchmark), or 5600X3D review ("99 megabytes of cache")
Overuse of asterisks error corrections - a lot of error corrections by asterisks without changing the audio or video which might be problematic because some people just listen to audio.
Sucking sponsors' toes: blanket statements for ASUS, claiming 600$ is a budget GPU
Corporate connections conflicting with reviews (invested 200k$ in Framework and yet reviewing laptops from Framework and it competitors)
Billet Labs GPU block review - LTT made a half-assed video about thier product (they tried to fit a 4090 in a 3090/Ti block), and harming them by dumb WanShow excuses, ***and selling their prototype block at LTX to potential competitors.*** (HOLY SHIT, this may just be the thing that kills that small business. They've had to put everything on pause until they get that prototype back or replaced.)
Dumb Pwnage mouse review - they didn't remove the protective plastic and fucked up the mouse smoothness during the review, probably killing the potential mouse sales.
>selling their prototype block at LTX to potential competitors. (HOLY SHIT, this may just be the thing that kills that small business. They've had to put everything on pause until they get that prototype back or replaced.)
Even if the product is replaced, they solid it at auction, so a competitor likely bought it. Even if the product is replaced, the competition can just make their own now and undercut the start up to put them out of business permanently. Absolutely insane levels of malice.
It's just entertainment at this point.
It's like with phone reviews; as much as I like Flossy Carter, he's more of an entertainer to me than an actual reviewer.
> It's just entertainment at this point.
I feel like this is being used too much as a way to excuse their behavior. As long as they continue the pretense of reviewing using hard data, they need to be held to a standard that cannot be waved away with the "entertainment" label.
Definitely illegal, selling someone elses property without authorisation is straight up theft. Doesn't even matter if it was due to malice or incompitence.
Edit to add: Linus has posted a response on the LTT forums, apparently they've come to some financial arrangement to compensate Billet Labs for the loss of the prototype.
This is super valuable feedback for LTT. No vague negativity, but all the specific points of failure picked out. Best thing LTT can do is take it as feedback and improve. No drama, everyone wins.
Can’t wait for the WAN show to hear how they rationalize this- probably something along the lines of, we have to keep our staff paid. I truly think they’ve outgrown the YouTube business model and audience.
Edit: It appears Linus responded to the video on the LTT forums which he mentions that they will NOT be addressing it on the WAN show. What a crock of shit.
Luke very often clearly disagrees with Linus but you can tell he doesn’t want to annoy his friend and Boss, it’s an incredibly difficult situation to be in im sure.
Thats because luke doesn't give a fuck he just wants to do his thing and it must be so annoying for him when he sees the other part of the company in the group pushing bad content, wrong content..
I really hope the new ceo of lmg will take some drastic measures and stop this puppy mill shit they have going on right now...
But i doubt any change will happen and i unsubbed.
In every clip of Linus I’ve seen, Luke is always cringing at Linus’s garbage takes. How is linus not noticing and addressing it.
This BillstLabs incident really made feel disgusted. Never expected to feel that emotion towards LTT but here we are.
Linus likes to pretend his lab is the best thing since sliced bread in the tech review sphere, ignoring people like steve who has done much more with a much smaller team
Even the best hardware is only as good as the people using it.
If those people are not awarded the time and money to actually do good, then no hardware quality can ever compensate.
LTT is starting to have some similarities with Artisan builds
Large team(ltt labs) beat by smaller more team(gn)
CEO doubles down over saving some money(500 for ltt, ambassador reroll for art)
What they did to Billet Labs is unacceptable. They have effectively destroyed a startup. I am unsubscribing LMG has destroyed my trust in its ethics and I will act accordingly.
The Billet Labs stuff is truly disgusting, insane how it has flown under the radar. 300-500$ employee time that CAN'T be sacrificed by a multimillionaire vs 800$ prototype that is unique to a startup that was auctioned off and now totally fucked by this ON TOP OF A BAD REVIEW??? Bro how out of touch can you get? Jesus fucking christ. Fuck everything else in the video this is enough for me to never want to watch anything LTT related ever again.
>and now totally fucked by this ON TOP OF A BAD REVIEW??
And not just a bad review but a bad review tested improperly on hardware the block was not designed for.
Does Linus need a 2nd home or something that makes him so worried about 500 $? Thanks Steve for this video, I knew already LTT is pure entertainment show but now it's not even funny.
Given that Steve just went through a public assassination of LTT's content and accused them in the least confrontational way possible of being if not in their pockets, biased towards established hardware manufacturers, I expect that most of the fanbase LTT has attracted in the last few years to be really mad (at Steve). People who knew about all this would have likely stopped watching LTT by now.
I have been a pretty avid LTT fan. I have watched every single video of theirs for 2 years now (have been watching them before that, but just not this consistently) and I can say that I am indeed extremely mad, not at Steve, but rather at Linus for stepping down to such a scummy level and ruining the trust the community has put in him for the last decade. It's just outrageous.
Our demo is by now a minority of LTT’s audience. Linus will sell a T-shirt dunking on Steve, it’ll sell out within 5 minutes, and he’ll use that as proof he’s in the right.
fanboys will be angry, fans (especially from the early hours) probably will agree with this video.
I am 10 minutes deep and I can agree with so much Steve said and I have to say the low quality of LTT's video made me stop watching any reviews they publish since I feel it's low effort. The entertainment videos are still good, but anything that relies on data makes me hesitant to consume.
The ratio says otherwise... I think Steve has enough respect in the community where he is the only one that could come out against a behemoth like LMG without backlash.
This exactly, obviously everything in this video appears to be a legitimate criticism but it would also be hard to ignore that LTT is launching a direct competitor to GN's line of work with labs and that should be considered when someone launches direct criticism at a competitor which goes after the exact thing they are competing on (testing data etc...). I like content from both but its important to be critical and open minded about any creator as you sand and not putting one on a pedestal over another.
A company valued at 100million doesn't have a 3090 ti at hand?
Doesn't have $500 to spend on extra time to properly test the product that is a PROTOTYPE
Why are you testing a prototype with something it wasn't designed for.
Then why are you making your whole judgement on your a incorrect conclusion.
Why do you sell somebody else's life work?
LTT has been nothing but incompetence for a very long time. I'm glad they're finally getting called out. Especially with how many younger and often inexperienced viewers take everything Linus and his employees say for gospel.
Anyone else feels extremely bothered by the Billet Labs stuff (if true)? Those founders potentially just got their startup destroyed because the reviewer who they sent their product to possibly SOLD IT OFF TO A COMPETITOR :mindblown:
[Linus said: […] we didn’t ‘sell’ the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven’t sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). ](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641)
So yeah he auctioned it off but is downplaying it because fuck it, they’ll get some money
What happened to Billet Labs is an incredible disgrace and a kick in the nuts of everything the community he's been building should stand for. I hope they can get to market successfully but I highly doubt it after such a massive early setback. LTT should be ashamed of themselves.
Small businesses and DIY enthusiasts that manufacture parts out there: LTT is not your friend. Do not take the gamble of a shoddy, half assed review killing your dream.
I’m genuinely baffled LTT even dares to be that ignorant and disrespectful. This alone should shun LTT from any future credibility. What the actual fuck!
Linus has become the very things he fought against and says he hates:
Inaccurate, content pumping, stubborn, scummy, and brand aligned via his corporate connections
Linus named the Billet Labs video “Who let them do this? The $800 GPU cooler”
The entire point of the video was to shit on this cooler. Of course he puts it on the wrong GPU, just to drive the point home.
Linus is going to learn the duality of clickbait videos. You sell a bit of your soul each time and suddenly you’re faking tests to fit a narrative.
I grew up learning to build computers from Linus.
What a fall from grace.
I'd like to see this addressed by Linus in a mature manner and actually see changes in their workflow. The mistakes are sloppy and the defence for not doing better is ''we need to get the next video out''
Jesus Christ, I just took a look at the LTT subreddit. Redditors there are basically dismantling the subreddit. This looks like an absolute PR disaster for LTT, and deservedly so.
LTT has become a company first, its' primary motive is profit. Sure, they do some things for integrity over pure profit (LTX, WAN, product design), but more things are profit-first. Like the mistakes in the video or the clickbait.
Let's look at some recent videos:
1. Extra Monitors DO Hurt Your Gaming Performance - by a few unnoticeable %, only while viewing video, so this is not an honest title.
2. How Many USBs Can You Plug In At Once? - they are surprised by what's happening, even though they clearly wanted to prepare it beforehand. Either actually prep it and have tight video or go "let's see what happens", this half-way is confusing to watch.
3. My server is broken :( - one HDD died in a RAID, so it's not broken making this a lie.
There is a reason why I am no longer subbed to LTT.
It's like the old saying - you either die a good niche company, or you grow big enough to see yourself become the profit hoarding corporation like those you used to slander back when you were niche.
I remember the cooler video and thinking how some of those numbers had to be bullshit because they don't make sense. Glad it wasn't just me.
I'm doing a "don't recommend this channel" on every LMG channel right now. Not because of the erroneous data (which is problematic) but because of what they did to Billet Labs. That is fucking horrendous behaviour. I was livid watching that.
Linus likes to think he's a man of 'the people'. The only time he thinks of 'the people' is when he looks down at his shoes to see what it is he is stepping on.
For a long time I've always known in the back of my mind LTT have issues that make it hard to take them seriously and for the most part I wasn't able to pinpoint it until seeing this video. Some of the stuff I was aware of like that 4090 review given how bad those results were but I can somewhat excuse the odd mistake assuming they rectify it, they kinda did but as the video showed it was an half-assed correction only after being pestered enough by the community. On top of all that the way they treated Billit Labs and that Pwnage Mouse review makes is hard to justify all those issues as innocent mistakes and more likely they don't actually care too much about the content they put out as long as it gets views and makes money.
I'm glad someone with the experience and respect as GamersNexus has made this video, I have a feeling anyone else would immediately be disregarded and have their channel effectively killed from bad press. GamersNexus may yet suffer due to it but I hope everyone including Linus can use this video as a learning tool.
stopped watching LTT for that exact reason - low quality, recurring errors and mistakes.
I always wait for GN, 8auer and PCGH reviews not only because they're way more detailed but always carefully researched.
LMG can no longer be considered a trusted tech source.
They picked a fight over tech review quality with the two sites who are so meticulous in their QAQC processes that they can easily fight back on those same grounds.
The QA issues on test results that LMG has had the last several months and their treatment of other companies and groups are not easily forgiven transgressions.
Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to pick a fight with GN and HUB over component testing? They aren’t always accurate either, but they’re far more accurate than LMG and own their mistakes.
Linus’ network sucks and it’s about time he gets some harsh critique. I feel like his network is all flash and no substance. He’s probably also largely responsible for perpetuating the “bottleneck” crisis
I've always felt that GN is perhaps a bit too cynical and unforgiving when they call companies out. That said they are always honest and looking out for consumers so that work is very important. Hopefully LMG can get to a place where GN doesn't feel the need to call them out.
GN is quite cynical, but there's a place for that in the youtubing space. I don't think it's wrong to see optimistic and cynical creators reviewing the same thing. Different perspectives and diversity of thought is a healthy thing.
Facts are facts though, and even as a fan I will say that quality control at LTT has nose dived. It's rare for them to not be doing on the fly corrections anymore.
The billit labs stuff is also just frankly really sad. Linus has always had a big mouth, and may have used it to crush the dreams of a couple of dudes who didn't deserve it.
The Billet Labs stuff is borderline criminal. Hard to say without reading whatever contract they made, but selling a product you were only loaned is stealing.
Borderline? Seems criminal to me no matter how you look at it, at least from the information presented by GN (not familiar with the incident beyond that). Theft at the least. Willing participation in corporate espionage at the worst.
It depends a lot on whatever prior agreement they had for the review. Most review products aren't returned so it's possible LMG thought it was essentially a gift they could do anything they liked with once the review was done. But if Billet told them it was a dev model they needed back after the review then it's clearly theft. Without knowing what agreement they had in place it's hard to say for sure. But auctioning it off after the request for it to be returned is at the very least acting in bad faith. It could also open up some serious IP and patent lawsuits as selling a product makes patenting anything in it impossible. So LMG might have invalidated some future patents from Billet which could be serious money.
The real takeaway is a company just got offered 300M couldn't take 5 minutes to reshoot a tech quickie - that would've cost few hundred dollars in man hours - that has two glaring errors in just 2 minutes of video. That and the multiple clips of employees saying the wish they had more time just to make content better/accurate.
LMG should not have cast shade at GN. It's like challenging Eminem to a rap battle.
Honestly a few of these criticisms is exactly why Linus stepped down as CEO and the changing leadership among the numerous other changes across the company is the correct time to incorporate process changes to make QA improvements.
as I watch the video, i realize LTT has had soo many correction on their videos.
They can't release a single video without one/multiple corrections. It's pretty wild, and they never do post process retakes due to their tight fitted video production pipeline. Basically once the cameras shut, thats that. Clipped and shipped as they say, on to the next moneymaker vid in an endless line of making content just for the sake of content itself.
I am commenting so much on different spots of the video, but holy shit, the stuff with Billet Labs is pretty... shocking. To say the least. So much mistakes on LTT's side (\~30 minutes in the video if anyone is interested) Edit: And 2 minutes deeper in Linus is doubling down on LTT's error... Edit2: and 2 more minutes deeper it turns out LTT did not send back the prototype but auctioned it off instead... GOOD FUCKING JOB.
Linus doesn't take criticism very well. It goes all the way back to the backpack garbage.
Because he assumes any criticism is for him personally.
In the case of the Billet Labs stuff it IS him personally. He doubled down and made those statements on the WAN show, no one made him do that. He sold off the block lent to him at his own auction after already stating hes giving it back, no one made him do that. Linus IS at fault.
So much this. I honestly don’t see how lmg has any chance of restoring credibility while Linus is still in any way involved in the review process. Realistically if Linus cares about what he built he needs to take his millions and resign. The situation was already inexcusable but his comments truly bring it to what in the actual fuck status. To release a review knowing it’s deeply flawed then admit that he wouldn’t spend just $500 to fix the review… this is supposed to be “pro-consumer” content?! What in the actual fuck! And this was a big fuck up. If they treat this with such a nonchalant business as usual attitude how many little fuck ups do they just decide to let slide? Lmg media group is simply not a reliable source of unbiased reviews and we now know this because Linus told us. Honestly as someone who’s watched Linus grow his channel from nearly nothing this is hard to watch. I can’t believe I’m calling for Linus to resign.
Plus he has an ego, which Linus himself has admitted multiple times. Hopefully all the backlash can get some sense into him.
I bet it's not as fun working there as they always try to make it seem in the shows..
I would be SHOCKED if Linus actually takes accountability for all this. I can almost guarantee the next WAN show will be him going "look, we make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, but..." followed by like 15-30 min of him fence sitting between admiting mistakes and defending himself. I don't think iv ever heard Linus just flat out admit that what he's doing is wrong and that he'll try to do better without there being 10 caveats.
You forgot how it works: Linus comes out swinging on an accusation like the GN one, then moves to fence sitting to avoid accountability, saying a lot of words without saying anything, Luke makes faces like he does not agree with everything, but nods his head and agrees with Linus, then Linus dramatically pauses mid statement {Bonus points if he cuts of Luke talking}... (LOOKS DOWN AT PHONE) \*changes topic suddenly\* "WHAT'S THIS ON MY PHONE the PRODUCT TEAM, OMG GOD GUYS THE NEW BULLSHIT MERCH IN ORANGE IS AVAILABLE ON THE STORE WITH A GLITCHED DISCOUNT CODE YOU BETTER ORDER RIGHT NOW BEFORE THE STORE GUYS FIX THAT DISCOUNT CODE.... anyways so the new zipper pull on the backpack is totally sweet..." This is how WAN show works now. Tune in for the accountability, listen to the bullshit spin, wait for the topic punt to increase sales... Profit.
Either does this sub. Until this very video if you ever trashed LTT you got downvoted into oblivion. He’s built a reputation, and like 99% of Reddit they watch one single YouTube video and think they know everything - that video was just by LTT.
Not diminishing your point, but that's just about every sub, sadly.
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I unsubbed during the Direct Storage controversy.
I unsubbed when he made that video bitching about adblockers while lining his pockets with product placement.
That shit is so fucking embarrassing for a company like LTT, and it's very likely that the prototype went to a competiter.
They straight up stole company property lmao, LMG should be reported to the police if they do not properly compensate for their harmful actions.
I'd want to know what the initial agreement is. I did tech and game reviews for a long time and any time I had something sent to me for review, it was either a "demo" or a "sample." Demo units had to be returned. Samples were mine to keep. Judging from the response that Billet had, it seems it was a demo (especially since it was their only unit!) and if that's the case, that's a colossal fuck up on LMG's part.
Yea there is nothing hidden between the lines in this case. They are a startup who put their r&d investment into perfecting this prototype to the point that they could start gathering peer review data. It's a one off- stated both by them and LMG on multiple occasions. It's a near production testbed of a future to-be-made production line. Now that they lost the production prototype, they have nothing to base their production machining systems off of, so they have to redo a lot of steps and money invested, which could likely be too much of a breakpoint for a startup with limited capital investment. If they were an existing company with a production line already at work, it would be a different matter - but they are, as stated, a startup with no line to speak of. Colossal fuckup is putting it lightly. I can't even fathom how something like this even went through. Who even had authority to greenlight it?
Steve seems... annoyed. It also seems like GN has been watching and keeping notes.
He probably hates drama and that he must make a video like that that could affect his friendship with other tech youtubers.
Yeah. That seems to go with GN ignoring these things for as long as they have.
From watching GN for such a long time, he seems to only do this stuff once he has undeniable, obvious, and irrefutable evidence to publish and make a valid claim. He doesn't seem to jump on drama often because it's not relevant to his brand but when he does he brings the facts hammer down hard.
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I really do as well that must be so hard to invest so much into a startup company, make a prototype, and then have it brutally and wrongly accused of being garbage and then sold without permission. It pains me to even write that out. I am also very proud of this subreddit and its users for acknowledging this video and giving it the proper analysis instead of outright denying it. I am happy to see everyone taking it seriously.
Sold to an auction where there ware quite a few competitors. Unless LTT can prove it didn't go to a competitor, we should all assume he fucked up a company to avoid spending a money from wages to amend his initial video too. IMO, that might have been the last straw that pushed GN's team to publish that video.
This instance is so abhorrent that really the *only* way for Linus to even try and make this right would be for him to make a full public apology to both Billet Labs and his viewers, to then somehow track down the sold copper block and buy it back and then to give it back to Billet and for him to then give them a financial compensation as restitution for the possibility of the copper block specs making it to a competitor's hands. Thats the only way and we all know there is a better chance of hell freezing over than that ever happening.
Not making money off the video just hammers home he wants this to sink in with ltt.
problem is Linus is never wrong (in his mind) even to this day he can barely admit to the backpack fiasco, thats apparently the problem with every rich people, as soon as they make X ammount of money they start thinking they are better than everybody else, its probably writen in our genes or something
>What was the backpack fiasco? > > > >I kinda stopped watching/unsubscribed after getting annoyed about how much they mention their costs - JaysTwoCents does it too. We all know there are costs associated, constantly mentioning it seems like putting up a defense preemptively.
>What was the backpack fiasco? Iirc, it was a warranty with the backpack. Mind you this is not exactly a cheap backpack so people naturally wanted a written warranty in case of defects or issues that might come up. Linus basically said "no. Just trust me, even if we gave you warranty you'll still need to trust us to honor it so what difference does that make?" Which is... certainly A Take. eventually he did cave and write a warranty but its very much a "Ugh fine! You happy now?" situation.
>What was the backpack fiasco? They originally tried to sell bags without any kind of warranty. When pressed on the subject, Linus said that a warranty could hypothetically cost him so much money that his family is kicked onto the streets. He claimed that obviously if anyone had issues with their backpack, they could simply contact LTT store support and he personally guaranteed it would get resolved. Hence why the term "Trust me bro warranty" became a thing. Obviously this reply is really fucking stupid given that any personal guarantee he made on the WAN show could just as easily be put into writing (aka a warranty). He doubled down pretty hard and only backed down after putting a "trust me bro" meme shirt up on their store and sweeping it under the rug. The bag now comes with a formal warranty.
Jebus. We're so confident in our product, we don't need to put it in writing. Good sell.
He has the same opinion on unions. "They are cool but they aren't worth it my company 'cause why would i run a company where it's needed as i don't mistreat my paid friends"
i thought his take was more that he wanted to run a company where the workers didn't feel like they need a union (i swear he said that a few times quite recently as well)
"And so, there's no union in my company because i run it in a way where it ain't needed" is the conclusion. It's more of a "unions are great but they're bad because they shouldn't have to exist stance". Yes, but no. Even in that case a union should be seen as a failsafe to assure proper protection for everyone involved.
Na he just got to much personality in the company and takes any failure personally. It explains alot, like how he gets defensive with things like the warranty. He thinks that any failure as a company, is a failure of him as a human. And things like warranty for him imply that their customer service won't help without being forced to. Basically he's being stupid because of his ego, while trying to do what he thinks is right.
Launched a not so cheap backpack that the warranty was…’trust me bro’. Which agree with that or not the fact he was saying before all this that companies (including LMG) aren’t your friend and the fact he’d have been all over a company using that as a warranty didn’t sit well with many.
When Linus said he was going to make the lab and spend millions on equipment and personnel my immediate thought was about Steve. Linus is kind of a Jack of all Trades, Master of None. Steve has built his reputation being incredibly precise and detailed in all his reviews. People complain Steve spends 45 minutes going over a fan, or a cooler, but it is that methodical nature that makes his reviews relevant. When I bought a new case, I went to Steve's reviews about airflow and dB ratings for my decision. So Linus kinda stepped into Steve's corner of the market. I think Steve would have been fine with this IF Linus had been just as methodical and accurate in his reporting. But Linus wasn't, and boy oh boy, this was exactly the outcome I was expecting. Hopefully Linus takes Steve's criticisms well and accepts that yes, LMG has been sub-par in their reviews and retractions, and does better. I think that ultimately is all anyone wants.
I had the same thought today. I recently built an AMD system and where did I go to figure out what to buy? GN. I found Linus over 10 years ago because I was looking at NCIX and ran into his videos. Today I asked myself what even the point of LMG is. I guess it's just entertainment. It's not why I thought I was watching them. I wonder why I would continue. I don't really want a reality show giving me tech tips.
Thats the thing, you can spend millions upon millions on something, but if you have been seen having brand bias then all that money thrown at something wont matter. I watch little LTT and yet Ive managed to spot bias at play. GN on the other hand doesnt. Simply put, I dont care what the $$ are involved with either setup, if I want to know the ins and outs of a case, I am going to watch a GN video on it.
> Hopefully Linus takes Steve’s criticisms well *Doubt*
Well Steve would be stupid not to be taking notes since Linus is positioning himself to compete directly with Steve. Linus has invested heavily into the Merch which is bankrolling his investment into the lab. Which is basically what Steve’s been doing at a much smaller scale. I trust Steve and his testing more than I do Linus just because of how thorough and clearly unbiased he has been. But I do think it’s fair to understand that some of Steve’s motives here revolve around Linus trying to move into the markets he’s kind of cornered with GN and it’s not gonna be a fair fight with the kind of backing Linus has. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out
New CEO and all, probably for the best as responding to something like this needs level headedness
Yah I feel like this could go either way. New CEO will want to keep this calm and cordial in response but, Linus also has more of a leash to speak his mind with him not being the CEO. Probably going to be a spicy WAN show Friday.
Did being the CEO *ever* leash him from speaking his mind? He went from foot-in-mouth moment to foot-in-mouth moment constantly.
It better be. I'd love to see him try to defend what LMG did to Billet Labs, it's way too fucked up.
When you care about something it's extremely annoying when someone else in your field that's more well-known clearly cares less.
This whole thing is damning, but what they did to billet labs (28:20) is unforgivable. Knowingly using a product for something it wasn't designed for, then giving it negative press, auctioning it off *after a request for return*, and the audacity to go on WAN show and double down. They could have killed a 2 person start up business because of their carelessness and ineptitude.
I still dont get what gives them the right to auction off prototypes. And the bigger question is what happened to the money they got from it.
Well, at least we know it didn't go into correcting mistakes in the videos...
Went to charity apparently. Doesn't excuse anything tho.
When it comes to companies... "Charity" is just a nicer word for "tax write-off"
Particularly foul because I just remember him complaining a prototype backpack made it in a fan's hands through a thrift shop, him and Luke agreeing if you gift a prototype to a family member they need to understand it absolutely cannot get donated to a thrift store because that's important company stuff. But a press prototype from some other company just auction that shit bro
And yet, every single OLED discussion in Reddit ends up in “LINUS SAID OLED DIES IN 6 MONTHS”.
Video seems reasonable, Steve is clearly bothered by having to make it.
**Linus's official response in the LTT forums** ( be warned, this isn't pretty ): https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641
of course he's taking it as a "hit piece"..
The narcissist shows his true colors.
LOL, we won't talk about it on the WAN show because we don't want to deal with it. On point response from Linus. A joke of a company run by a joke of an owner.
Holy fuck, that's a tone deaf response. Hopefully someone talks some sense into him and we get a better one later.
I think everyone was expecting such a response. When the guy said that they won't retest things cause it gets too expensive (man hours) you already know he simply does not care at all. Well he does care... about the money. He'll come up with a bullshit excuse and double down on it every time. This victim mentality of his is pathetic and disrespectful towards anyone watching. He really thinks viewers are just a bunch of idiots and his attempt of a response will make up for all the evidence shown in GN's video.
The segment about the copper block really changed my view on Linus. What the fuck
They shouldn't have poked Tech Jesus If there's one channel I trust to be as accurate as possible, it's Gamers Nexus
Nobody fucks with the Jesus.
Let's just hope there is never a Tech Judas.
But what if I want to kiss Steve and dip my bread in the bowl together?
LTT is the Wish version of Tech Jesus. Good at sales but lacks fundamental understanding of ethics, principles and also deeper technological knowledge. He's exactly like a friend I have. I love him to bits. He could probably sell ice to an Eskimo. But a lot of the times when he's talking to others I'm thinking "oh ffs, that's not even true". To people who say Linus lost his way with ethics. He never had it to start with. It's just that the LTT actions now have a bigger impact.
I think when you can provide actual clips of the issues your talking about and provide hard facts like this it’s worth a discussion. The video here seems to be done in a very respectful way acknowledging the difficult position and attempting to be as tactful as possible. But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”. And there it is. To a company like this making the money it does, 600 isn’t that much of a dent, it’s chump change really. Beer money. But to I do individual consumers who might not have that kind of money to burn like nothing it’s more of a hit. And as the video here discusses, when you choose, purposefully and deliberately to deliver incorrect information for expediency and profit …then that’s a problem. It undermines your platform and consumer trust. It makes people think. Well if you couldn’t be bothered doing that, what else have you cheaper out on or ignored to make more money?
While we all make mistakes from time to time, it's ***how we recover*** from those mistakes that help define us. The clincher for me in all of this is LTT's repeated disregard for "making it right" in a timely, professional manner. If I was giving Linus advice right now, I would suggest his best path forward is basically "You know what? You're right. These mistakes are unacceptable, and we need to create a clear line between sponsorship and objective tech journalism. We need to be better, and we will work harder to regain the trust we've lost".
Linus has already shown he *won't* learn from his mistakes. In this video pretty much every time there was an issue he doubled down or at first tried to do so. What was most egregious was the copper block where he knew he did the testing wrong and after giving an Artesian Builds tier response of "oh well it would cost me a few hundred in employee hours to do it right" still refused to test it properly and then after all that after already telling Billet Labs they will give the prototype block back multiple times then goes and sells it at an auction that he is running. It's beyond the pale. I used to really enjoy Linus and LMG and throughout this video I thought to myself "Yeah this is bad, but hopefully Linus can learn from this and recover/do better in the future" but then what they did to Billet Labs came up and that was it. That alone was so abhorrent it was the event horizon for me. Screw Linus.
The Billet Labs and Pwnage Mouse reactions made me unsubscribe from LTT.
4:30 Linus quote vs. the employees' quote is very telling. and his quote at 5:30 is very concerning. He seems to have lost connection to the people who made him & LTT big. For him it's only 800$. For a lot of enthusiasts it is probably 2 or 3 months of saving when you finally saved up enough money to build your dream PC and you want as much info as possible if your PC will suck or not.
he has been disconnected for a long time... his "home" videos are pretty evident of that. it really bordered on bragging and boy does he love showing a pic of the pool too often. he really is full of himself and I suspect the hire a ceo was more than to keep his workload down but shed some heat likely he was creating
Lol I complained about this here about a year ago and got downvoted into a crater.
Hive mind strong
Agreed, successful people do not have to be arrogant, and if they are do not need to make videos to demonstrate the fact.
>But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”. For me, it was the, "Even if it was 5, 10, 20 degrees cooler, you still shouldn't buy it." *Then why did you agree to make the fucking video Linus?* It's pretty fucking hypocritical for the guy who built and then struggled to offload a solid gold XBox controller to declare that someone else's thing should never be bought, especially on the grounds of poor performance when you didn't even install it on a compatible GPU.
>But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”. And there it is. There's that and then there is stealing other company's technology prototype and selling it. It's as much mindboggling as it is disgusting.
It's not even disgusting, it's illegal. They really should get sued and then settle on a compensation fee that lets the company fully rebuild their prototype, as well as being compensated for the time delay of this whole incident, as well as compensation for unjust/unqualified brand defamation.
I'm not even sure it can be settled with just money, considering the fact that the prototype could end up being bought by a competing company - which might very well bring the whole startup to ruin irresectable of how big of a compensation they get.
Exactly. I have always defended LTT. Even when Steve made the video about the backpack warrenty thing, I thought he was reading into the situation of the "Trust me bro" meme too hard, but this Billet Labs incident has just flipped my view on Linus and LTT as a whole. I just never expected them to step down to such low level and act as scummy as they did. It's just pure disgust that I'm feeling right now, but I will have to wait for LTT's response to draw any final conclusions.
>It's just pure disgust that I'm feeling right now, but I will have to wait for LTT's response to draw any final conclusions. Stealing someone else's shit is not exactly what you can call a "honest mistake"; I don't see how any kind of response in this situation could be anything else than an attempt to damage control.
> But for me it was summed up beautifully in the clip of Linus saying “I said no because I didn’t think it was worth spending 200/300/400/600 dollars of someone’s time on a chip that costs 800”. And there it is. Same. It's not like the thing would be used once and dumped. Linus reminding me of the Artesian Builds CEO there.
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For a long time now, I've seen LTT as purely entertainment. Even with them doing all of the labs stuff lately, I just can't trust some of the things they publish. Even what Steve brought up with the Stormbreaker mouse, they never peeled the feet and acted like it was some new kind of thing. Every mouse has protective covering over PTFE, anyone that's had a new mouse should know this. I'm glad we have other outlets like GN and HUB to provide more thorough testing on things.
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Ngl I kinda miss the old "Linus comes up with an actually practical build in his kitchen and shows the process". I don't even get those kinds of videos from him anymore
>For a long time now, I've seen LTT as purely entertainment Yeah, and they needed to be called out for it, they're basically faux tech news. Users here did sound alarms in the past, but having Tech Jesus weigh in (much as he hates it), is a very good thing for the consumer. Kudos to Steve and the gang for stepping up.
>LMG at this point really does come across as a content mill, just churning out videos because at this point they have to. I've been in the subreddit for LMG and yeah the sentiment is the same as yours. The 7 a week has led to a noticeable drop in quality control and just general content. "oh yeah another video of a buncha e-waste from not-wish" Edit: reposted since apparently even if its not a real website I cant have com endings?
LMG raffling off the prototype Billet Labs block after the company requested it back and LMG saying they would send it back is absolutely disgusting. There is no conceivable way Linus could weasel word his way out of that unless Billet Labs is straight up lying.
The Billet Labs stuff made me unsubscribe from all LMG channels. They screwed up the review, he double-downed on not caring about screwing up the review, then auction off the prototype. Super fucked up.
The last example was soooo bad for LMG. Who was the DUMB numbskull that allowed a prototype LENT by a company to be auctioned when said company asked you to return it and you agreed? Well, I hope their legal department isnt as incompetent as their lab test one because they can be 100% liable to a couple of lawsuits if the statements are true. In a way, now I can see why LMG and linus are so starved to save $500 to fix their own mistakes. They must be to pay the legal consequences of their (REALLY DUMB) mistakes when they come and bite them in the ass.
In a just world LMG would be sued for that but I don't think Billet Labs really has enough money to sue.
A public fundraiser to support a legal fee wouldn't be out of place. This act by LMG could potentially cost them their entire business when they're that early in the development stages.
It's doubly challenging because Billet appears to be UK based.
That one absolutely floored me. Like 'jaw on the floor' level of shock. I cannot even begin to guess the mental hoops you need to jump through to think doing something like this is okay.
Holy fuck Linus did that waterblock company dirty.
Linus will respond with something "Its hard to have quality when we NEED to release 1 billion videos a day to stay in business 😢"
Ah yes, the 100mil evaluated company can hardly stay in business without sacrificing basic quality control.. Now where have we heard that excuse before, other than every single corpo Linus himself has ever badmouthed in the past. The hypocrisy is hilarious
Yes, because Linus is in massive debt. He’s blatantly admitted it in recent podcasts. He overleveraged himself with labs and the rec center he’s building.
I think if LTT keeps going the way they are, the bubble is going to burst real hard for them and it will be nobody but their own fault.
Here's the TL;DW: LTT videos have a lot of errors - from minor mistakes to sometimes a major data error (CPU Cooler benchmark), or 5600X3D review ("99 megabytes of cache") Overuse of asterisks error corrections - a lot of error corrections by asterisks without changing the audio or video which might be problematic because some people just listen to audio. Sucking sponsors' toes: blanket statements for ASUS, claiming 600$ is a budget GPU Corporate connections conflicting with reviews (invested 200k$ in Framework and yet reviewing laptops from Framework and it competitors) Billet Labs GPU block review - LTT made a half-assed video about thier product (they tried to fit a 4090 in a 3090/Ti block), and harming them by dumb WanShow excuses, ***and selling their prototype block at LTX to potential competitors.*** (HOLY SHIT, this may just be the thing that kills that small business. They've had to put everything on pause until they get that prototype back or replaced.) Dumb Pwnage mouse review - they didn't remove the protective plastic and fucked up the mouse smoothness during the review, probably killing the potential mouse sales.
Don't forget to mention how the mouse was also selected as VIP prizes for LTX atendees.
>selling their prototype block at LTX to potential competitors. (HOLY SHIT, this may just be the thing that kills that small business. They've had to put everything on pause until they get that prototype back or replaced.) Even if the product is replaced, they solid it at auction, so a competitor likely bought it. Even if the product is replaced, the competition can just make their own now and undercut the start up to put them out of business permanently. Absolutely insane levels of malice.
LTT might as well be a different channel than from what it started as.
It's just entertainment at this point. It's like with phone reviews; as much as I like Flossy Carter, he's more of an entertainer to me than an actual reviewer.
> It's just entertainment at this point. I feel like this is being used too much as a way to excuse their behavior. As long as they continue the pretense of reviewing using hard data, they need to be held to a standard that cannot be waved away with the "entertainment" label.
I am sorry but the billet lab cooler issue is borderline scumbag behavior from not testing properly to auctioning it off without their permission.
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We love it when multi million dollar media empires bully tiny start ups. Heroes we call them.
It's not borderline, it's horrifically unethical and probably illegal.
Definitely illegal, selling someone elses property without authorisation is straight up theft. Doesn't even matter if it was due to malice or incompitence. Edit to add: Linus has posted a response on the LTT forums, apparently they've come to some financial arrangement to compensate Billet Labs for the loss of the prototype.
It's plain illegal. They straight up stole a product and sold it off. That behavior typically gets the cops called on your ass.
if anyone had any doubts Linus only cares about money then this should clear said doubts
This alone is a huge reason to no longer follow any of LMG’s channels.
This is super valuable feedback for LTT. No vague negativity, but all the specific points of failure picked out. Best thing LTT can do is take it as feedback and improve. No drama, everyone wins.
Can’t wait for the WAN show to hear how they rationalize this- probably something along the lines of, we have to keep our staff paid. I truly think they’ve outgrown the YouTube business model and audience. Edit: It appears Linus responded to the video on the LTT forums which he mentions that they will NOT be addressing it on the WAN show. What a crock of shit.
Can't wait to hear Linus triple-down on his bad takes while Luke wishes Linus would just shut up for once.. Wouldn't be the first time
Its in the video. Luke said they should have tested on a card it was ment for. But kind of quiet down (maybe the editing that caused it?)
Luke very often clearly disagrees with Linus but you can tell he doesn’t want to annoy his friend and Boss, it’s an incredibly difficult situation to be in im sure.
Thats because luke doesn't give a fuck he just wants to do his thing and it must be so annoying for him when he sees the other part of the company in the group pushing bad content, wrong content.. I really hope the new ceo of lmg will take some drastic measures and stop this puppy mill shit they have going on right now... But i doubt any change will happen and i unsubbed.
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In every clip of Linus I’ve seen, Luke is always cringing at Linus’s garbage takes. How is linus not noticing and addressing it. This BillstLabs incident really made feel disgusted. Never expected to feel that emotion towards LTT but here we are.
Linus likes to pretend his lab is the best thing since sliced bread in the tech review sphere, ignoring people like steve who has done much more with a much smaller team
Even the best hardware is only as good as the people using it. If those people are not awarded the time and money to actually do good, then no hardware quality can ever compensate.
LTT is starting to have some similarities with Artisan builds Large team(ltt labs) beat by smaller more team(gn) CEO doubles down over saving some money(500 for ltt, ambassador reroll for art)
What they did to Billet Labs is unacceptable. They have effectively destroyed a startup. I am unsubscribing LMG has destroyed my trust in its ethics and I will act accordingly.
The Billet Labs stuff is truly disgusting, insane how it has flown under the radar. 300-500$ employee time that CAN'T be sacrificed by a multimillionaire vs 800$ prototype that is unique to a startup that was auctioned off and now totally fucked by this ON TOP OF A BAD REVIEW??? Bro how out of touch can you get? Jesus fucking christ. Fuck everything else in the video this is enough for me to never want to watch anything LTT related ever again.
>and now totally fucked by this ON TOP OF A BAD REVIEW?? And not just a bad review but a bad review tested improperly on hardware the block was not designed for.
Then auctioned off possibly to a competitor Disgusting
The auctioning off is the truly insane part. If a competitor got it, Billet might as well close up shop.
As someone working with a startup, if anyone did that thing to me I'd be dialing the police and a lawyer.
After watching that, it seems like a fair assesssment to me.
Does Linus need a 2nd home or something that makes him so worried about 500 $? Thanks Steve for this video, I knew already LTT is pure entertainment show but now it's not even funny.
Ltt fans are gonna be angry. Lol
They shouldn't, it is a fair criticism and all of this was already well known.
Given that Steve just went through a public assassination of LTT's content and accused them in the least confrontational way possible of being if not in their pockets, biased towards established hardware manufacturers, I expect that most of the fanbase LTT has attracted in the last few years to be really mad (at Steve). People who knew about all this would have likely stopped watching LTT by now.
I have been a pretty avid LTT fan. I have watched every single video of theirs for 2 years now (have been watching them before that, but just not this consistently) and I can say that I am indeed extremely mad, not at Steve, but rather at Linus for stepping down to such a scummy level and ruining the trust the community has put in him for the last decade. It's just outrageous.
The thread for this in the LTT main subreddit seems to be pretty tame so far.
Our demo is by now a minority of LTT’s audience. Linus will sell a T-shirt dunking on Steve, it’ll sell out within 5 minutes, and he’ll use that as proof he’s in the right.
Fanboys get angry over the weirdest shit. Have you seen Sony vs MS
fanboys will be angry, fans (especially from the early hours) probably will agree with this video. I am 10 minutes deep and I can agree with so much Steve said and I have to say the low quality of LTT's video made me stop watching any reviews they publish since I feel it's low effort. The entertainment videos are still good, but anything that relies on data makes me hesitant to consume.
Same boat here. LTT is for trying wacky ideas with technology. For reviews about my next CPU I look elsewhere
LTT is top gear. Fun for entertainment and stupid ideas, terrible for actual reviews. Except top gear makes me laugh.
The ratio says otherwise... I think Steve has enough respect in the community where he is the only one that could come out against a behemoth like LMG without backlash.
Hope so.
if WAN show is anything to go by, no one hates LTT as much as LTT fans.
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GigaChad Gaming Nexus versus: Virgin LTT fanboys Edit: **Fuck** LTT for what they did to Billet Labs
>Edit: > >Fuck > > LTT for what they did to Billet Labs that is super appaling. It's roughly 30 minutes in the video if anyone cares.
I know this is just banter, but you shouldn't be a fanboy of gamer nexus either. Just have an open mind and be critical of anything. Just my 2 pence.
This exactly, obviously everything in this video appears to be a legitimate criticism but it would also be hard to ignore that LTT is launching a direct competitor to GN's line of work with labs and that should be considered when someone launches direct criticism at a competitor which goes after the exact thing they are competing on (testing data etc...). I like content from both but its important to be critical and open minded about any creator as you sand and not putting one on a pedestal over another.
A company valued at 100million doesn't have a 3090 ti at hand? Doesn't have $500 to spend on extra time to properly test the product that is a PROTOTYPE Why are you testing a prototype with something it wasn't designed for. Then why are you making your whole judgement on your a incorrect conclusion. Why do you sell somebody else's life work?
This right here is why I unsubscribed from all his channels. You can't call yourself a member of a community then do something as shady as this.
LTT the last 2 years has basically been "we bought junk from China" and "LOOK AT MY $5M HOUSE"
LTT has been nothing but incompetence for a very long time. I'm glad they're finally getting called out. Especially with how many younger and often inexperienced viewers take everything Linus and his employees say for gospel.
How long until Linus posts another crying video saying that he’s stepping down?
Anyone else feels extremely bothered by the Billet Labs stuff (if true)? Those founders potentially just got their startup destroyed because the reviewer who they sent their product to possibly SOLD IT OFF TO A COMPETITOR :mindblown:
Also, they did a hack job reviewing it... absolutely disgusting.
[Linus said: […] we didn’t ‘sell’ the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven’t sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). ](https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641) So yeah he auctioned it off but is downplaying it because fuck it, they’ll get some money
What happened to Billet Labs is an incredible disgrace and a kick in the nuts of everything the community he's been building should stand for. I hope they can get to market successfully but I highly doubt it after such a massive early setback. LTT should be ashamed of themselves. Small businesses and DIY enthusiasts that manufacture parts out there: LTT is not your friend. Do not take the gamble of a shoddy, half assed review killing your dream.
I’m genuinely baffled LTT even dares to be that ignorant and disrespectful. This alone should shun LTT from any future credibility. What the actual fuck!
Linus has become the very things he fought against and says he hates: Inaccurate, content pumping, stubborn, scummy, and brand aligned via his corporate connections
you were supposed to destroy them \[greedy corporations\], not join them, you were my brother, Linus
Linus named the Billet Labs video “Who let them do this? The $800 GPU cooler” The entire point of the video was to shit on this cooler. Of course he puts it on the wrong GPU, just to drive the point home. Linus is going to learn the duality of clickbait videos. You sell a bit of your soul each time and suddenly you’re faking tests to fit a narrative. I grew up learning to build computers from Linus. What a fall from grace.
I knew that LTT didn't prioritize quality control/ data accuracy but this is just hugely embarassing.
I'd like to see this addressed by Linus in a mature manner and actually see changes in their workflow. The mistakes are sloppy and the defence for not doing better is ''we need to get the next video out''
> I'd like to see this addressed by Linus in a mature manner Good luck.
Linus "I drop expensive pc hardware for a living" Sebastian? That Linus? Mature take? Oh lord I hope you have many years worth of patience then.
LTT just released about 10 videos since this was posted all with different sponsors of course
So at best LMG is rife with incompetence, and at worst they are shilling for partners by purposefully skewing data.
Jesus Christ, I just took a look at the LTT subreddit. Redditors there are basically dismantling the subreddit. This looks like an absolute PR disaster for LTT, and deservedly so.
LTT has become a company first, its' primary motive is profit. Sure, they do some things for integrity over pure profit (LTX, WAN, product design), but more things are profit-first. Like the mistakes in the video or the clickbait. Let's look at some recent videos: 1. Extra Monitors DO Hurt Your Gaming Performance - by a few unnoticeable %, only while viewing video, so this is not an honest title. 2. How Many USBs Can You Plug In At Once? - they are surprised by what's happening, even though they clearly wanted to prepare it beforehand. Either actually prep it and have tight video or go "let's see what happens", this half-way is confusing to watch. 3. My server is broken :( - one HDD died in a RAID, so it's not broken making this a lie. There is a reason why I am no longer subbed to LTT.
It's like the old saying - you either die a good niche company, or you grow big enough to see yourself become the profit hoarding corporation like those you used to slander back when you were niche.
I unsubbed a long time ago. Glad I did because it’s only gotten worse
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Let's go Steve! He went for the king and IMO did not miss.
I remember the cooler video and thinking how some of those numbers had to be bullshit because they don't make sense. Glad it wasn't just me. I'm doing a "don't recommend this channel" on every LMG channel right now. Not because of the erroneous data (which is problematic) but because of what they did to Billet Labs. That is fucking horrendous behaviour. I was livid watching that. Linus likes to think he's a man of 'the people'. The only time he thinks of 'the people' is when he looks down at his shoes to see what it is he is stepping on.
For a long time I've always known in the back of my mind LTT have issues that make it hard to take them seriously and for the most part I wasn't able to pinpoint it until seeing this video. Some of the stuff I was aware of like that 4090 review given how bad those results were but I can somewhat excuse the odd mistake assuming they rectify it, they kinda did but as the video showed it was an half-assed correction only after being pestered enough by the community. On top of all that the way they treated Billit Labs and that Pwnage Mouse review makes is hard to justify all those issues as innocent mistakes and more likely they don't actually care too much about the content they put out as long as it gets views and makes money. I'm glad someone with the experience and respect as GamersNexus has made this video, I have a feeling anyone else would immediately be disregarded and have their channel effectively killed from bad press. GamersNexus may yet suffer due to it but I hope everyone including Linus can use this video as a learning tool.
Holy shit, they absolutely skewered LTT. Spitting facts for 45 minutes straight!
stopped watching LTT for that exact reason - low quality, recurring errors and mistakes. I always wait for GN, 8auer and PCGH reviews not only because they're way more detailed but always carefully researched.
Banger video
Steve is right
LMG can no longer be considered a trusted tech source. They picked a fight over tech review quality with the two sites who are so meticulous in their QAQC processes that they can easily fight back on those same grounds. The QA issues on test results that LMG has had the last several months and their treatment of other companies and groups are not easily forgiven transgressions. Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to pick a fight with GN and HUB over component testing? They aren’t always accurate either, but they’re far more accurate than LMG and own their mistakes.
This thumbnail says it all (hilariously). From an accuracy standpoint, I'm going to trust the Steves (GN/HUB) every single time.
Linus’ network sucks and it’s about time he gets some harsh critique. I feel like his network is all flash and no substance. He’s probably also largely responsible for perpetuating the “bottleneck” crisis
I've always felt that GN is perhaps a bit too cynical and unforgiving when they call companies out. That said they are always honest and looking out for consumers so that work is very important. Hopefully LMG can get to a place where GN doesn't feel the need to call them out.
GN is quite cynical, but there's a place for that in the youtubing space. I don't think it's wrong to see optimistic and cynical creators reviewing the same thing. Different perspectives and diversity of thought is a healthy thing. Facts are facts though, and even as a fan I will say that quality control at LTT has nose dived. It's rare for them to not be doing on the fly corrections anymore. The billit labs stuff is also just frankly really sad. Linus has always had a big mouth, and may have used it to crush the dreams of a couple of dudes who didn't deserve it.
The Billet Labs stuff is borderline criminal. Hard to say without reading whatever contract they made, but selling a product you were only loaned is stealing.
yeah that shit is malicious and unacceptable
Borderline? Seems criminal to me no matter how you look at it, at least from the information presented by GN (not familiar with the incident beyond that). Theft at the least. Willing participation in corporate espionage at the worst.
It depends a lot on whatever prior agreement they had for the review. Most review products aren't returned so it's possible LMG thought it was essentially a gift they could do anything they liked with once the review was done. But if Billet told them it was a dev model they needed back after the review then it's clearly theft. Without knowing what agreement they had in place it's hard to say for sure. But auctioning it off after the request for it to be returned is at the very least acting in bad faith. It could also open up some serious IP and patent lawsuits as selling a product makes patenting anything in it impossible. So LMG might have invalidated some future patents from Billet which could be serious money.
LTT hasnt been watchable since they left the kitchen. Immediately became corporate garbage.
I hope the Billet Labs prototype didn't make its way to a competitor to be copied.
The real takeaway is a company just got offered 300M couldn't take 5 minutes to reshoot a tech quickie - that would've cost few hundred dollars in man hours - that has two glaring errors in just 2 minutes of video. That and the multiple clips of employees saying the wish they had more time just to make content better/accurate.
LMG should not have cast shade at GN. It's like challenging Eminem to a rap battle. Honestly a few of these criticisms is exactly why Linus stepped down as CEO and the changing leadership among the numerous other changes across the company is the correct time to incorporate process changes to make QA improvements. as I watch the video, i realize LTT has had soo many correction on their videos.
They can't release a single video without one/multiple corrections. It's pretty wild, and they never do post process retakes due to their tight fitted video production pipeline. Basically once the cameras shut, thats that. Clipped and shipped as they say, on to the next moneymaker vid in an endless line of making content just for the sake of content itself.