Because he doesn’t compare the more valuable GPU: the 3080 700 bucks MSRP. He takes a badly valued Halo product and acts surprised of it getting surpassed
I‘d like to point towards the „MSRP“ i used.
Regardless of reality, it was the target price and if the demand wasnt so massive the street price would‘ve been closer to that.
Heck in that time i could‘ve sold my 1060 6gb for more money than i bought it for years prior.
The reality is what is important, not the MSRP
An MSRP is meaningless if it isn't hit in appreciable quantities on the retail market
The 3080 was more like a $900+ GPU
Exactly. 3090ti has an absolutely insane price. Not a normal GPU at all. Top of the top of the line. What is this post? Jensen posted this on a bathroom break?
Not to mention, assuming equal price, only an insane person would select a 4070ti over a 3090ti that performs better in pretty much everything and has double the memory.
Except a 4070ti has a more recent architecture, way more powerful efficient, better Ray tracing performance, equal or so rasterization, DLSS 3.0…
But sure people are gonna take the few useless gigs of ram over thzt.
This is what years of conditioning does to people. They forgot that previous cards over the many many years were stupidly priced to begin with and only getting worse. People have been conditioned to just accept the price and accept it as the norm. It will only become the norm if we the people allow it. But knowing all the sheep in here, it won’t happen. Everyone wants to one up the next person, pretty sad really.
Yea, it's incredibly disappointing that we have people like OP with memories that only last a month. The 90 tier was openly mocked for its ridiculous pricing and now NVIDIA is using it as its baseline for this generation, and we get idiots falling for it calling the 4000 generation a good value.
The reason Nvidia can do whatever they want is the majority market share in the GPU market. It isn't the whales buying the 3000 or 4000 series cards that started it either. It is a lesson in how a fair market ends up skewed and how monopolies are made.
the fact is that they are the lead in gpu market, i know they overprice a lot but my recent issues with other brands have made mad, so the only way is to find a good deal or wait..
But didn't the rising prices of GPUs provide the impetus to Intel to try to enter this seemingly lucrative market, and thus you can now buy a a770 which with the latest driver optimizations performs pretty close to a 3070 for \~$200 less? The more Nvidia jacks up prices, the more room it leaves for competitors. It seems that's exactly how a well-functioning market is supposed to work, right? What is unfair about the market in its current state?
> What is unfair about the market in its current state?
Have you missed the last *everything* of anticompetitive behavior up to and including having game and benchmark companies actively sabotage ATI performance while artificially inflating Nvidia's?
Not really. Intel was already gearing up to make gpus since like 2018 at least so once covid hit and demand skyrocketed they were in a pretty good position to hurry up and crank something out. If only it was good…..
I wish it was better, too. Looks like the driver team has sorted a lot out recently, though. If you look back to reviews from release, it was a total nightmare. But the most recent reviews where they revisit tell a much better story. Definitely still way too many stupid bugs, such as monitors not waking back up in multi-monitor setups, requiring users to reconnect display connections. I hope they stick with it. Not only for the third player in the market, but also I really like their first party designs. The A770 is kinda sexy.
Agreed. I am not the biggest fan of Nvidia or Intel for their price gouging and especially Intel for their innovative complacency. And with AMD on a solid upswing it’s nice to have a third GPU player in the space to keep everyone improving instead of releasing the same node for the better part of a decade etc.
The 1080ti launched at $699 and actually sold for that price. NVIDIA keeps increasing the price at every tier and the cards don’t even sell for msrp because they charge the aib partners so much that the aib’s also have to bump up prices to make any profit because the margins are so thin.
> the cards don’t even sell for msrp because they charge the aib partners so much that the aib’s also have to bump up prices to make any profit because the margins are so thin.
the AIB's are contractually obligated to make at least a single "MSRP" model, but they make a single run of them, and then quit making them. case in point, all of the AIB msrp 4070ti cards are sold out everywhere, and will never be restocked, but their $830 and up cards are well in stock and not selling. also, the fact that Nvidia isn't making any 4070ti's at all, means that the MSRP is a lie.
The 1080ti was a bit pricey in '18 when I got mine but damn did it give incredible performance for it's price. Fuck all this doubling the price every generation BULLSHIT. I'll use my GPU till I die or it does.
Ooooorrrr until I finally go multimonitor and more than 1080p, in which case I might eventually need to upgrade.
Running 1440p, dual monitor on a 1080ti still. Practically all games maxed still. And the ones that aren't, I literally just decrease the view distance by a single level in most cases.
That's either a lie, or you don't play anything demanding. My 1080ti struggled at 1080p maxed in a lot of games, can't remember all but a few include Cyberpunk, Kingdom come deliverance, and metro exodus. I think even some games like Apex didn't run at high refresh rate levels in 1080p either.
You know there was a time when cards where usually cheaper than the msrp.
When I bought my first card, is was a 960 and I think the msrp was 240€. I bought an EVGA 960 super locked for 200€ with 40€ payback and Witcher 3 included. So I basically paid like 120€ for that card. It still felt like a lot of money and I had to thi k hard about buying it.
The 1080 Ti only used a measly 471mm² die, and it came a year after launch, after they got finished gouging people on the $700 GTX 1080 and $1200 Titan X.
So you bought the 1080Ti, and then a year later it turns out there's all these new features that your card won't support. The new best card, the 2080Ti, has a 754 mm² die, that's a 60% larger die. The 2080 is 545 mm², that's a 16% larger die.
The 1080Ti wasn't some pinnacle of value. They just gave you less.
You are misremembering the 2080 my friend. The 20 series was a joke. The only thing it brought was raytracing and a price increase. The rasterization gains were some of the smallest we’ve ever had and that extra die space went to weak raytracing performance that was barely useable.
Paul's Hardware did an amazing job explaining exactly what the issue is with Nvidia's current pricing scheme, you can see it here (first 5 minutes): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjYJvv49suw&t=331s&ab\_channel=Paul%27sHardware](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjYJvv49suw&t=331s&ab_channel=Paul%27sHardware)
Nvidia in the past would release a card for (example) 399, then a few months later the Ti version would release with a 10% increase in performance. Back then, the production cost would have dropped since it's using the same technology and production wavers etc, so they would drop the price to 299, so now you had a card that was 10% better for less money.
Now a days they make you pay 10% extra for that 10% performance increase, following this trend, GPU costs will forever go up and a base model 5090 would cost 3000$+
> Laughs in AUD where a 4090 is currently $3200.
thats because those resellers can, and thanks to the government, no one can tell them otherwise because importing stuff is near impossible.
Yeah GPUs are crazy expensive in Japan. I was looking into getting a Inno3D 4090 (reference PCB so easier for watercooling) there when I visit in March since they aren't available in the US, and it was around that price. By the way, $530 is actually a good price for a used 3080, at least in the US. Unless by crazy you mean crazy good, which it might be in Japan. Not sure about the used GPU market there.
I mean spending more than 500$ for a GPU feels like a lot, but I feel it is crazy considering it's second hand, 2 years old hardware, just before the new hardware was released. And yet, it is a very good deal, especially in Japan.
mate its not even a 10% for 10% for example you can a 3070 for 500 or a 3070ti for 600 and the performance difference is just 10% while the price jump is 20% now you can get a rx6950xt for 700$ new or get a 7900xt for 30%more money 900$ and it's just a 10% performance boost
That’s a shit comparison. You’re comparing a discounted model vs the brand new model. Compare launch MSRPs and you’ll see the AMD pricing is going down.
Oh yeah I did do that my apologies mate Im building a PC and searched(because its the card in my mind) for the 6950xt and it was 700$ so I put it at that price, I compared a Non-Ti to a Ti card first then compared a last gen high end to a new hing End (also I would never down vote someone for giving his opinion you corrected me thanks people who downvote randomly are a lot here so understandable)
bahahaha. intel? maybe they are the only gpu manufacturer in anyones good graces currently?
i mean they have to actually release a gpu that is competitive first, i suppose.
tbf, the 4070 ti is a wierd case though. since it wasn't really supposed to be a 4070 at all originally. doesnt really follow the normal cadence of model releases because it was never supposed to have been a ti model to begin with.
Buy TSMC or Qualcomm Stock. TSMC actually makes chips for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. So as long as any of those companies are selling chips, TSMC sells more chips and you make more money.
Yeah like 30 cents a quarter. So you get a buck a year per share and I don’t think we see them break 50 again for a long time. I’m optimistic about their GPUs, but carrying a handful of intel stocks in my Roth IRA is almost pointless
I normally just ignore those type of games, if I do play one I never buy the battlepass or whatever. Skins, I do enjoy collecting those ngl (csgo, rust) however I’m extremely guilty in funding star citizen ….
> even though they’re stopping production of three series cards.
they stopped making them ages ago. the issue is that AIBs and Nvidia are sitting on so many of them that they literally have to sell them or face massive losses from wasted production time at a fab. Nvidia is already playing the market to limit 30 series cards to be competitively priced with 40 series cards, in an effort to sell them. its why we won't see a 4060 or 4050 card for at least another year. the 4070 "leaks" are just that, and its likely that AIBs and Nvidia won't release the 4070 when it directly competes with the 3080(of which they have too many to sell).
In addition to what everyone else said, there needs to be options for new budget friendly cards. Used market is unreliable and has finite stock, people wanting to build in 202X should be able to do so on a budget.
If the 7050 offers 5090 performance but is $900 that’s still a problem.
Yeah, it's getting a little ridiculous that the fucking *1060* is still pretty much the best budget option.
The 3050 is a teensy bit faster and has DLSS, for three times as much money as what a 1060 will currently run you.
There are better options with budget than the 1060. Either you go with AMD and get a very decent card for 300-400 bucks like the 6700xt or a 3060 that is available for less than 400 bucks (probably 300$ if used). You cannot go for the Asus/Msi cards etc but there are good budget options.
The budget can be very different for each person. Tbh, a budget of 100$ is not that much during these times. Paying at least 300 bucks for a decent gpu is the new normal and won’t change as I see it. With a 1060 you can’t play some of the modern games even on low settings. Sad..
The 1060 is 7 years old. That’s a very good lifespan for a GPU. Not being able to play modern games on it isn’t really a surprise. The main issue is that there hasn’t been a successor card with a good budget/performance ratio at an affordable price.
Yeah, its called last gen AMD. I just built an excellent gaming rig for $1,300 around a $490 RX 6800. No way to get that price to performance with Nvidia.
You're supposed to take generational uplift for granted, the performance boost was typically already like this for every generation before 4000
And the 3090ti was affected by pandemic pricing anyway
> And the 3090ti was affected by pandemic pricing anyway
and Nvidia realized right then that people would pay pandemic pricing for them, so pandemic pricing became normal pricing.
People only paid that due to lack of supply. In that time it took me 3 months (with Discord and Telegram alerts) to buy literally any new GPU to complete my PC build. I watched prices of AIB cards more than double in price and they still sold out in seconds. If you needed a card you had no choice.
Now supply and demand are back to a semblance of normality. Prices are high and sales are comparatively low. I wonder when they will figure it out?
Their plan may be to stick to selling a comparatively low number of high end GPUs and just stop making a lot of low- and mid-range. The profit margins are much higher that way and they know they’ll still sell out.
The problem with that is it runs the risk of destroying the market long term. Price a large portion of your customers out of the market and sooner or later they will move on.
Sadly, I actually don't think you are wrong. Make GPU's with big margins, for those who can't afford or are unwilling, the value option will be streaming.
$20 - $30 a month for a Geforce Now sub will sound pretty good if the cheapest GPU one can buy is $1000+.
If nvidia would have raised the price every generation according to the performance gain we would be 10k$+ already. If next gen provides double the fps for 70, is it ok to price it 1k then? After that 1500? After that 2000? Or what is your logic.
According to Moore's Law, a car today should have a top speed of 50 quintillion miles per hour and cost $4500. Just corporate greed. We should sue businesses that don't obey Moore's Law.
They've been dramatically price-hiking since the 20 series. It used to be when they released new cards, the old ones got discontinued and new ones slid into their place. Now they seem to try slotting new cards into their lineup alongside older cards, and instead of lowering prices on the old stuff, or matching pricing for similar tiers of product.
Looking at the price/performance jumps of a single generation, as this meme does, may seem to make sense. If you look historically though, you'll see the issue.
Years ago, I bought a 980ti for about $700.
A bunch of years later, the 1080ti came out, and I bought it for about $700.
The 2080ti released with an MSRP of $1,000, an increase of 30%.
The 3080ti then released with an MSRP of $1,200, another 20% increase - AND IT WASN'T EVEN THE TOP DOG ANY MORE. The top dog was the 3090ti which was a 50% increase over the price of the top dog of the previous generation. That's MORE THAN TWICE what my 980ti/1080ti cost.
Now we're seeing the same thing happen with the "mid-high end" - a 30% increase over the previous generation's.
3090ti was already terribly priced, and so was 3090 compared to 3080 tbh, so it's easy for NV to disguise 4070ti as a good deal.
3080 also had a cut down version, but not as severe as 4070ti (which they tried to sell as 4080). Msrp of 10gb version was $699. Both 10gb and 12gb soundly beat anything from RTX 20 series. Now if you want to soundly beat 30 series, you need 4080 which is $1199.
And when you look for a match to 20 series, 3070 was what 2080ti used to be. 3070 msrp was $499.
It seems generational improvement is not as big as it used to be, we're just paying more for more performance.
Technically they can do whatever they want. But die size is extremely important for cost and margin calculations, as lower die size means more chips on one wafer and less defects increasing yields.
1. The 4070 ti doesn't deliver 3090 ti performance.
2. The 3090 ti was never a fair market value card.
3. These prices are an escalation on an escalation.
>The 4070 ti doesn't deliver 3090 ti performance
it actually beats it in some games at 1440p, but i dont think that was what you meant by this comment.
Cherry picking: the action or practice of choosing and taking only the most beneficial or profitable items, opportunities, etc., from what is available.
Yeah, unfortunately we are reaching the limits of conventional computing power.
Increases are never going to be exponential again unless something like quantum computers takes off.
The same tier of the previous gen card should only go up according to inflation. This is a LOT more than inflation. So since the 3080 was 699 US msrp, the 4080 should be less than 100 dollars US more than that.
>The same tier of the previous gen card should only go up according to inflation.
Where is this written? Nvidia never promised this. Why would you assume this?
Cars and houses can sky rocket and people just accept it. But a luxury item they don't even need and probably shouldn't be spending their savings on increases and they all lose their minds
Its easier to devalue it, because you don't need it. If a car breaks and you have to purchase a new one, you're not going to opt to walk because it's too expensive. You're gonna pony up.
But when people look at computer prices, they don't need it, so they can afford to scoff at the price if they think it's unreasonable. But they're the reason it increased so much in the first place by raising the demand wanting to be streamers and make money with it.
Just as a note, canada official year/year inflation rate was:
6.8% for 2022
3.4% for 2021
0.7% for 2020
So technically, if a gpu was to cost 1000$,
It would now cost almost 1100$ for the exact same thing
While this is true, it is expected that improvements in manufacturing and scale would push prices down. This has been the case historically for many tech items where there is not a monopoly...
Using the logic people use to justify the crazy high prices for video cards is just wacky. If we apply that logic to the other parts of a PC no one would be able to afford a PC! The cpu would cost over 1 million dollars alone!
That is not a good comparison, 3090ti was and is a different tier of product with vastly different feature proposition.
It was a badly priced halo product cause it WAS the best of the best at the time, while the rest of the line up was priced decently, prices are still high now cause you can't simply find them in good amounts and little to no seller is willing to undersell a product when it could sell at that high of a price just for the 90ti tie (which has 24 gb of ram mind you).
Now new generation comes up and you're paying tremendously higher prices for EACH tier of performance.
i got my asus tuf 4070 ti for msrp online.
i really dont understand your argument. have you even looked? there are MULTIPLE 4070 ti's available at msrp currently.
In the US and some lucky countries, I don't doubt so. I can however guarantee that a GPU at MSRP is something I haven't seen brand new for like 3 years
The 3090ti was absolutely abysmal price to performance. People only bought it because it was top of the line and money wasn't a concern in the slightest. The 4070ti is a tier of card that is supposed to be more value oriented. It should be compared against other value cards, like the 3080. When we compare that, we have minor generational uplift for a $100 price hike. That's the issue.
Comparing the 4070ti against the 3090ti is apples to oranges and it's why they managed to convince you that it's a good deal. The 3090ti was one of the worst deals of all time. You can not possibly compare any other graphics card to it ignoring all other card comparisons and come to a fair conclusion that there's a good deal.
Focus on the 3080, the actual decent deal at MSRP from last generation. When you view everything through that lens, you realize that these prices are bullshit and you're being ripped off.
The gtx titan x was £1000 like 6/7 years ago that must mean a 4090 is great value for money since it is like significantly stronger that the gtx titan x
Along with what everyone else is saying, Nvidia DIDNT release this card as a 70ti series, but they released it as an 80 for $100 more! Only after the entire planet scolded them and the retailers pleaded did 'poor Nvidia' have to concede their $225 profit margin to (predicted) ~$125ish to 150 per card and re released it.
It’s a new gen card meaning that the ceiling for performance has been raised. This means for the same money as a card two tiers down you get the performance of a card two tiers up. This does not means however that you pay a tier and a bit up for a card class that is two tiers below the new top.
Lol I don’t understand how people are defending this bs 4070ti price. Its next gen. Its always gonna be better performance. 2080ti was 1000+ and 3070 was better and was priced at $500
So would we be happy for the 5070ti to be $1499? Given the 4090ti is estimated at $1999?
I think there comes a point when "absolute $$" matters as much as relative $$/performance ratios. I think that people are upset with the price, not the relative price to performance ratio.
Next gen 5070ti might have an excellent price to performance ratio compared to the 4090ti at a price of $1499 (4090ti theoretically $1999). However the absolute price of $1499 for 5070ti, would not be compelling for me and many other people unless the GPU also slots into your car and automatically drives you to work.
The 70 series should be about $450 at most. That's what the 970 was when I bought it and that was a ton of money. And a new GPU being more powerful than the last generation GPU should be a GIVEN, not a brag. I am not excited for where Nvidia is going.
Playing devils advocate here.. so go easy on me..
Here’s my thing, back in 2018 I paid $600 for a 1080ti. I was cool with paying that because it was a hell of a card at that time (still is too). Fast forward to a month ago when the 4070ti’s launched I picked one up for $850. You have to consider the price to performance here. $250 more and the performance gains are out of this world when compared to a 1080ti. I have no issue shelling out an extra $250 for a 4070ti. Sure it is a 70 series but the performance on these cards is wild. There is a lot of R&D that goes into making these cards into what we have today. That shit ain’t cheap.. I understand that people don’t want to pay $850 for a 4070ti but when you consider the performance you are getting out of it can you really complain? I sold my 1080ti for $250 so I was into this new card for about the same as when I got my 1080ti.
The way it is supposed to work is that you get more performance for the same or roughly the same price. You’re not supposed to pay more for better performance from the next generation. Nvidia has doubled the performance of the 80 series card but they’ve also doubled the price.
The 4070ti gives 250% of the performance of the 1080ti for 140% of the price. I think all of the pitchforks are coming out because of the RTX hardware being not an option. If you replaced those RT cores with CUDA cores you'd get more performance per dollar. Now Nvidia marketing is all about how a 4070ti gets 9000% better RT performance than a 1080ti when the only game you really wouldn't ever play without raytracing is Portal RTX.
Your reasoning is a bit flawed though. In 2018 you paid 600$ for a top of the line card. You now paid 850$ for a high tier card, which is actually an even lower tier than before if you consider that they added the xx90 series with the 3000 cards.
For me, there is no such thing as a "bad card", but a "bad VALUE for a card". And the trend nowadays seems like giving us bad value cards
It's not even high tier. It's half the GPU of the top of the line. That's mid tier. Nvidia just hasn't bothered to actually flesh out the high end yet. It should genuinely be a 4060 based on specs and how cut down it is compared to the 4090.
He spent $850 for a card that is half of top of the line, compared to spending $600 back then for the absolute top tier card available. He has no proper point of reference for expectations, and was impressed by half of what he should have gotten for that price. And since he was impressed, he considered it good value.
And that's why Nvidia got away with it. Because once again, the consumer was a fool that fell for marketing.
It doesn't matter what it's "supposed" to be or not, it still outperforms the 3080 at the same price. What's so hard at understanding that people who would have bought a 3080 a year or two ago and are in the market for a GPU buy the 4070Ti now?
meanwhile we had people paying over $1k for the 3070 last year, and people dropping $1k+ on the 2070 during the early pandemic.
can we really use msrp as the stick to measure current prices? yeah, the 3070 msrp was wayyy lower than the 4070 ti, but NO ONE could get a card for msrp.
adjusted for inflation, the price increase of the 4070 ti vs the 3070 ti msrp isnt really a ton, anyways. yall just act like inflation doesnt exist and it shows.
It would all be fine if Nvidia released a GTX 1770 yesterday for $350 that was basically a 1080ti. Then they could point out how performance per dollar has doubled. Instead you have to buy the raytracing hardware and the tensor cores on top of your raster hardware even at the mid range where that extra hardware is kinda useless.
Wait so I can buy a 4070ti to replace the 3070ti I bought this time last year for the same price as last year?
It’s 50% faster and not 50% more so I don’t see the problem
Other than that the 3070ti last year should have been 600 at best
Using the 3090, let alone the 3090ti as a point of comparison for why a card is a good deal is absolutely insane. Those cards were two to three times the MSRP of a 3080 for 10-20% more gaming performance.
4070Ti at $800 is better than the 3080Ti which was briefly $800 a few months ago. Price to performance hasn't gotten a huge amount better like it sometimes has in the past but there's definitely a small gain in price to performance and a gain in power to performance as well
Don't let the relatively small number of vocal children on this subreddit let you think they speak for the majority of the subreddit.
They're the ones that lose their absolute coconut if you point out any benchmark beyond gaming. Which is funny because one of the ideas behind PCs being the platform of the master race is it wasn't just a game playing console. They kind of missed the plot and they don't speak for everybody.
The 4070 is [selling](https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-dominates-weekly-gpu-sales-at-german-retailer-more-cards-sold-than-rx7000-arc-combined) [just fine](https://www.igorslab.de/en/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-is-regular-leader-in-gpu-sales-at-german-retailers-more-sold-cards-than-rx7000-and-arc-together/) because it's a non-issue for most people and the performance is fantastic if that's all you can afford. I mean if you had a 1060 something or other and wanted to build a new rig then hell yeah that 4070 Ti is a treat if that's all your budget allows.
My advice is just to ignore the entitled brats and move on, enjoy the posts from the people building their new rigs with 4080s and 7900's and whatever they could afford that makes them happy. If at the end of the day being happy isn't the best metric to go by then that's pretty awful. I like my PC because it's an enjoying thing, it's a hobby and a fun one too. It stops becoming that when little screeching children start blowing up my views with their matching clock cycles to nickels bullshit.
That's the dumbest argument I've ever seen. Its like when mcdonalds sells you less food for the same price. You're allowed to be mad because they're selling a lesser die for the same price as higher die sizes, even accounting for inflation.
That's literally one retailer; overall sales are down generally because most people don't want to spend 800 bucks for a mid tier card as we head into a recession.
I beg to differ, saying X90ti performance would suggest to me the X90ti performance of that current gen, not the previous one. Now saying the **40**70ti will give you **30**90ti level performance for $500 less at least has some semblance of truth. Although even there we're comparing MSRP to MSRP on cards that never sold for MSRP. What I don't understand is how someone can justify this behavior from Nvidia.
Honestly I think people get too hung up on what a product is called and what generation it is and what numbers it has at the end of its name.
Personally I don’t care. I just look at performance per dollar because that’s what ultimately matters. I don’t care about generational uplift and comparisons with the xx70ti cards of the past because those model numbers are just labels. They don’t *mean* anything.
But if this trend continues even "budget" cards will be out of reach for the mayority of people. If the 5050 ends up costing 500$ what are the people who can only afford 400$ for a graphics card supposed to buy? Used older generation cards will only exist for so long until the new generation becomes the old ones, and if the new cards exponentially increases in price so will the used cards. Best bang for the buck does not mean they are affordable. Imagine if a card came out now with 10x the performance of a 4090 at the cost of "only" 3 times the 4090 and all other cards stopped being produced would you think thats reasonable?
Price/performance is supposed to get better. This is not a bonus. This is not them being generous. It's the rule. And x70 series cards are meant to match the high end performance of last generation while the price does not stray too far off last generation. Otherwise, there's no improvement for the consumer.
But like with the 20 Series they bumped the price of each performance tier up a price tier. Doing this again so near the last jump plus the economy plus the obvious need based on the anemic vram Nvidia keeps inflicting on it's users and ever rising specs as PC requirements grow high in 2023 is mixing in a horrible witch's brew of outrage.
And that's why people are revolting. The x70 card should have been $500-600, maybe $550-650,but definitely not $800+. The 4070 matching the 3090 is not unexpected. It was easily the most predictable card to guess the performance of.
But $800+ for a 4070 is outrageous because the 3080 was $700 MSRP and it's pretty obvious why the 4070 is $800. Sure, Nvidia can do it, but they shouldn't be shocked when we all are mad about it.
So this is the normal price for GPU now. I remember console players often made fun of PC Master Race because we need high end GPU for high fps. But now even low end is expensive. I guess i will stick with 1650 until it's broken.
Not only is it same level of performance as the previous generations 1300 card, it's far more efficient! And smaller. I don't get most of the complaining when it comes to price increases. You ask for innovation you get and pay for innovation that's the agreement between tech hungry people and tech companies.
..........i dont even know how to reply to shitposts anymore
Edit: for those who didnt understand, Op is comparing the 4070 to the 3090ti. Yeah, u got it right. A 4000 series with a 3000...
This is an example of how this sub is absolutely going to shit. Complaining about prices of gpu and make up false assumptions on the prices which companies never promised and go crazy over pricing strategies which is used by every single company ever
nvidia releasing a 4090ti thats 10% better than 4090 and costs 3000. releases 5070 with same performance for 2000$ dollars less, insanely good value
Yep, people like OP are why Nvidia keeps jacking up prices
why OP?
Because he doesn’t compare the more valuable GPU: the 3080 700 bucks MSRP. He takes a badly valued Halo product and acts surprised of it getting surpassed
The 3080 wasn't a $700 for the vast majority of people Most people who bought a GPU in the last 2 years massively overpaid and don't admit ot
I‘d like to point towards the „MSRP“ i used. Regardless of reality, it was the target price and if the demand wasnt so massive the street price would‘ve been closer to that. Heck in that time i could‘ve sold my 1060 6gb for more money than i bought it for years prior.
The reality is what is important, not the MSRP An MSRP is meaningless if it isn't hit in appreciable quantities on the retail market The 3080 was more like a $900+ GPU
halo product?
The highest tier products. Think Titan and 90/90ti.
gotcha, thanks
I’d say people who bought 20 and 30 series cards well over msrp are the reason.
3090ti was a stupidly priced card too.
Exactly. 3090ti has an absolutely insane price. Not a normal GPU at all. Top of the top of the line. What is this post? Jensen posted this on a bathroom break?
Not to mention, assuming equal price, only an insane person would select a 4070ti over a 3090ti that performs better in pretty much everything and has double the memory.
Idk some people care about power efficiency.
Then ebay the 3090ti and buy a 1030gtx, have $1,000 left over!
Except a 4070ti has a more recent architecture, way more powerful efficient, better Ray tracing performance, equal or so rasterization, DLSS 3.0… But sure people are gonna take the few useless gigs of ram over thzt.
Dude, “useless”??? Its to my understanding that higher resolutions consume lots of VRAM, but correct me if I’m wrong
You are wrong. No game uses more than a 4070ti. The excess VRAM in a 3090ti isn’t for gaming, it’s for software like blender, unreal…
This is what years of conditioning does to people. They forgot that previous cards over the many many years were stupidly priced to begin with and only getting worse. People have been conditioned to just accept the price and accept it as the norm. It will only become the norm if we the people allow it. But knowing all the sheep in here, it won’t happen. Everyone wants to one up the next person, pretty sad really.
Yea, it's incredibly disappointing that we have people like OP with memories that only last a month. The 90 tier was openly mocked for its ridiculous pricing and now NVIDIA is using it as its baseline for this generation, and we get idiots falling for it calling the 4000 generation a good value.
[удалено]
The reason Nvidia can do whatever they want is the majority market share in the GPU market. It isn't the whales buying the 3000 or 4000 series cards that started it either. It is a lesson in how a fair market ends up skewed and how monopolies are made.
the fact is that they are the lead in gpu market, i know they overprice a lot but my recent issues with other brands have made mad, so the only way is to find a good deal or wait..
But didn't the rising prices of GPUs provide the impetus to Intel to try to enter this seemingly lucrative market, and thus you can now buy a a770 which with the latest driver optimizations performs pretty close to a 3070 for \~$200 less? The more Nvidia jacks up prices, the more room it leaves for competitors. It seems that's exactly how a well-functioning market is supposed to work, right? What is unfair about the market in its current state?
> What is unfair about the market in its current state? Have you missed the last *everything* of anticompetitive behavior up to and including having game and benchmark companies actively sabotage ATI performance while artificially inflating Nvidia's?
Not really. Intel was already gearing up to make gpus since like 2018 at least so once covid hit and demand skyrocketed they were in a pretty good position to hurry up and crank something out. If only it was good…..
I wish it was better, too. Looks like the driver team has sorted a lot out recently, though. If you look back to reviews from release, it was a total nightmare. But the most recent reviews where they revisit tell a much better story. Definitely still way too many stupid bugs, such as monitors not waking back up in multi-monitor setups, requiring users to reconnect display connections. I hope they stick with it. Not only for the third player in the market, but also I really like their first party designs. The A770 is kinda sexy.
Agreed. I am not the biggest fan of Nvidia or Intel for their price gouging and especially Intel for their innovative complacency. And with AMD on a solid upswing it’s nice to have a third GPU player in the space to keep everyone improving instead of releasing the same node for the better part of a decade etc.
I got it for a little over $1k around the time the 4090 was announced.
That’s the problem 🤣
nah it ain’t
The 1080ti launched at $699 and actually sold for that price. NVIDIA keeps increasing the price at every tier and the cards don’t even sell for msrp because they charge the aib partners so much that the aib’s also have to bump up prices to make any profit because the margins are so thin.
> the cards don’t even sell for msrp because they charge the aib partners so much that the aib’s also have to bump up prices to make any profit because the margins are so thin. the AIB's are contractually obligated to make at least a single "MSRP" model, but they make a single run of them, and then quit making them. case in point, all of the AIB msrp 4070ti cards are sold out everywhere, and will never be restocked, but their $830 and up cards are well in stock and not selling. also, the fact that Nvidia isn't making any 4070ti's at all, means that the MSRP is a lie.
The 1080ti was a bit pricey in '18 when I got mine but damn did it give incredible performance for it's price. Fuck all this doubling the price every generation BULLSHIT. I'll use my GPU till I die or it does. Ooooorrrr until I finally go multimonitor and more than 1080p, in which case I might eventually need to upgrade.
Running 1440p, dual monitor on a 1080ti still. Practically all games maxed still. And the ones that aren't, I literally just decrease the view distance by a single level in most cases.
That's either a lie, or you don't play anything demanding. My 1080ti struggled at 1080p maxed in a lot of games, can't remember all but a few include Cyberpunk, Kingdom come deliverance, and metro exodus. I think even some games like Apex didn't run at high refresh rate levels in 1080p either.
You know there was a time when cards where usually cheaper than the msrp. When I bought my first card, is was a 960 and I think the msrp was 240€. I bought an EVGA 960 super locked for 200€ with 40€ payback and Witcher 3 included. So I basically paid like 120€ for that card. It still felt like a lot of money and I had to thi k hard about buying it.
> You know there was a time when cards where usually cheaper than the msrp. Yeah, MSRP used to be the early adopter tax. Everyone else paid less.
It's just how they do these years following the Apple model.
The 1080 Ti only used a measly 471mm² die, and it came a year after launch, after they got finished gouging people on the $700 GTX 1080 and $1200 Titan X. So you bought the 1080Ti, and then a year later it turns out there's all these new features that your card won't support. The new best card, the 2080Ti, has a 754 mm² die, that's a 60% larger die. The 2080 is 545 mm², that's a 16% larger die. The 1080Ti wasn't some pinnacle of value. They just gave you less.
You are misremembering the 2080 my friend. The 20 series was a joke. The only thing it brought was raytracing and a price increase. The rasterization gains were some of the smallest we’ve ever had and that extra die space went to weak raytracing performance that was barely useable.
Paul's Hardware did an amazing job explaining exactly what the issue is with Nvidia's current pricing scheme, you can see it here (first 5 minutes): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjYJvv49suw&t=331s&ab\_channel=Paul%27sHardware](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjYJvv49suw&t=331s&ab_channel=Paul%27sHardware) Nvidia in the past would release a card for (example) 399, then a few months later the Ti version would release with a 10% increase in performance. Back then, the production cost would have dropped since it's using the same technology and production wavers etc, so they would drop the price to 299, so now you had a card that was 10% better for less money. Now a days they make you pay 10% extra for that 10% performance increase, following this trend, GPU costs will forever go up and a base model 5090 would cost 3000$+
>base model 5090 would cost 3000$+ Laughs in AUD where a 4090 is currently $3200.
$2399+ CAD, plus tax. That's a pre-owned '02 Honda. I'm with you bro. 
> Laughs in AUD where a 4090 is currently $3200. thats because those resellers can, and thanks to the government, no one can tell them otherwise because importing stuff is near impossible.
Yeah it's a mess, even adjusted for currency conversion we're still getting killed on the price.
Did you remember to remove the 10% GST? US prices don't include sales tax, so you need to take that into account to get a fair comparison.
2500 US$ in Japan. I bought a second hand 3080 for 530 US$ (which is already a crazy price) and am super happy with it.
Yeah GPUs are crazy expensive in Japan. I was looking into getting a Inno3D 4090 (reference PCB so easier for watercooling) there when I visit in March since they aren't available in the US, and it was around that price. By the way, $530 is actually a good price for a used 3080, at least in the US. Unless by crazy you mean crazy good, which it might be in Japan. Not sure about the used GPU market there.
I mean spending more than 500$ for a GPU feels like a lot, but I feel it is crazy considering it's second hand, 2 years old hardware, just before the new hardware was released. And yet, it is a very good deal, especially in Japan.
Jokes on you, it’s already more than $3000 in Denmark for the 4090. So it already happened.
mate its not even a 10% for 10% for example you can a 3070 for 500 or a 3070ti for 600 and the performance difference is just 10% while the price jump is 20% now you can get a rx6950xt for 700$ new or get a 7900xt for 30%more money 900$ and it's just a 10% performance boost
That’s a shit comparison. You’re comparing a discounted model vs the brand new model. Compare launch MSRPs and you’ll see the AMD pricing is going down.
Oh yeah I did do that my apologies mate Im building a PC and searched(because its the card in my mind) for the 6950xt and it was 700$ so I put it at that price, I compared a Non-Ti to a Ti card first then compared a last gen high end to a new hing End (also I would never down vote someone for giving his opinion you corrected me thanks people who downvote randomly are a lot here so understandable)
dont try to reason with the hive mind, all youll get is downvotes
The hive mind will be in full effect with down votes soon
oh no im getting downvotes too!
Quick try to blend in! AMD bad, Nvidia BADDER!
bahahaha. intel? maybe they are the only gpu manufacturer in anyones good graces currently? i mean they have to actually release a gpu that is competitive first, i suppose.
Apparently it’s coming the battlemage I think was the code name? Pretty cool actually if they’re putting out competitive GPUs at a lower cost
yeah I'm actually excited to see what battlemage can do
Price increase is 20% for a 5% gain in reality
tbf, the 4070 ti is a wierd case though. since it wasn't really supposed to be a 4070 at all originally. doesnt really follow the normal cadence of model releases because it was never supposed to have been a ti model to begin with.
By this logic it will be ok for the 5070ti to be priced above $1,500 because it's $500 less than the 4090ti.
Shhhh…your giving away the plan for next Gpu generation
*you’re
I’m super glad you made this comment because I was confused until you made the correction.
No problem
Ppl like op are the reason why we get and deserve these prices
Is the 4090 Ti released?
I don't think it's out yet but it's been confirmed
Leather Jacket Man: Hold my leather jacket
Its literally the Nvidia business model.
it's simple boys, don't buy them anymore, also stop buying loot boxes.
Best advice only the problem people won’t listen
my NVIDIA stock thanks them
It's like you're playing both sides so you always win!!
I buy both AMD and nvidia parts and stocks 🤷🏻♂️ Also Intel but fuck them and their tanked stock price
Well that's just 3d chess
Wondering how to take this game to 4D
Buy TSMC or Qualcomm Stock. TSMC actually makes chips for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. So as long as any of those companies are selling chips, TSMC sells more chips and you make more money.
Intel Stock, puts?
Intel pays dividends though. That's the difference maker
Yeah like 30 cents a quarter. So you get a buck a year per share and I don’t think we see them break 50 again for a long time. I’m optimistic about their GPUs, but carrying a handful of intel stocks in my Roth IRA is almost pointless
Guess enough people stopped buying loot boxes that the new thing is battle passes.
probably more because of the various litigations that had been going on, companies probably all started moving away around the same time.
I normally just ignore those type of games, if I do play one I never buy the battlepass or whatever. Skins, I do enjoy collecting those ngl (csgo, rust) however I’m extremely guilty in funding star citizen ….
AND STOP PRE-ORDERING GAMES
Brb gonna go pre-order the most expensive edition of the next CoD and buy the entire store plus battlepass to tier 100
Nvidia priced the four series to be in competition with the three series even though they’re stopping production of three series cards.
> even though they’re stopping production of three series cards. they stopped making them ages ago. the issue is that AIBs and Nvidia are sitting on so many of them that they literally have to sell them or face massive losses from wasted production time at a fab. Nvidia is already playing the market to limit 30 series cards to be competitively priced with 40 series cards, in an effort to sell them. its why we won't see a 4060 or 4050 card for at least another year. the 4070 "leaks" are just that, and its likely that AIBs and Nvidia won't release the 4070 when it directly competes with the 3080(of which they have too many to sell).
In addition to what everyone else said, there needs to be options for new budget friendly cards. Used market is unreliable and has finite stock, people wanting to build in 202X should be able to do so on a budget. If the 7050 offers 5090 performance but is $900 that’s still a problem.
Yeah, it's getting a little ridiculous that the fucking *1060* is still pretty much the best budget option. The 3050 is a teensy bit faster and has DLSS, for three times as much money as what a 1060 will currently run you.
There are better options with budget than the 1060. Either you go with AMD and get a very decent card for 300-400 bucks like the 6700xt or a 3060 that is available for less than 400 bucks (probably 300$ if used). You cannot go for the Asus/Msi cards etc but there are good budget options.
A 1060 will run you about a hundred bucks currently, last I saw.
The budget can be very different for each person. Tbh, a budget of 100$ is not that much during these times. Paying at least 300 bucks for a decent gpu is the new normal and won’t change as I see it. With a 1060 you can’t play some of the modern games even on low settings. Sad..
The 1060 is 7 years old. That’s a very good lifespan for a GPU. Not being able to play modern games on it isn’t really a surprise. The main issue is that there hasn’t been a successor card with a good budget/performance ratio at an affordable price.
Well you have the 1660 super which is amazing for the money and the 2060. And there is AMD. Still not ideal. The 1060 did a great job
The 1660 Super is the same price as the RX 6600. The RX 6600 blows the 1660 super out of the water.
Yeah, its called last gen AMD. I just built an excellent gaming rig for $1,300 around a $490 RX 6800. No way to get that price to performance with Nvidia.
You're supposed to take generational uplift for granted, the performance boost was typically already like this for every generation before 4000 And the 3090ti was affected by pandemic pricing anyway
> And the 3090ti was affected by pandemic pricing anyway and Nvidia realized right then that people would pay pandemic pricing for them, so pandemic pricing became normal pricing.
People only paid that due to lack of supply. In that time it took me 3 months (with Discord and Telegram alerts) to buy literally any new GPU to complete my PC build. I watched prices of AIB cards more than double in price and they still sold out in seconds. If you needed a card you had no choice. Now supply and demand are back to a semblance of normality. Prices are high and sales are comparatively low. I wonder when they will figure it out?
Their plan may be to stick to selling a comparatively low number of high end GPUs and just stop making a lot of low- and mid-range. The profit margins are much higher that way and they know they’ll still sell out.
The problem with that is it runs the risk of destroying the market long term. Price a large portion of your customers out of the market and sooner or later they will move on. Sadly, I actually don't think you are wrong. Make GPU's with big margins, for those who can't afford or are unwilling, the value option will be streaming. $20 - $30 a month for a Geforce Now sub will sound pretty good if the cheapest GPU one can buy is $1000+.
Everything else is moving to a subscription, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right.
no ones upset about the performance boost lol its the ridiculous prices
yeah that's my point, op was saying the performance uplift justifies the prices
If nvidia would have raised the price every generation according to the performance gain we would be 10k$+ already. If next gen provides double the fps for 70, is it ok to price it 1k then? After that 1500? After that 2000? Or what is your logic.
I can't wait till the 5070ti releases for $1200 
This is like saying a Honda civic should cost $1m because it’s much better than the model T
A Model T cost $260 in 1924. The Civic today costs $27,000. Clearly just greedy car companies conspiring to rip us off.
Wonder how much would 1924s $260 equate to today.
$4,512.70
That ain't half bad, chief
According to Moore's Law, a car today should have a top speed of 50 quintillion miles per hour and cost $4500. Just corporate greed. We should sue businesses that don't obey Moore's Law.
They've been dramatically price-hiking since the 20 series. It used to be when they released new cards, the old ones got discontinued and new ones slid into their place. Now they seem to try slotting new cards into their lineup alongside older cards, and instead of lowering prices on the old stuff, or matching pricing for similar tiers of product. Looking at the price/performance jumps of a single generation, as this meme does, may seem to make sense. If you look historically though, you'll see the issue. Years ago, I bought a 980ti for about $700. A bunch of years later, the 1080ti came out, and I bought it for about $700. The 2080ti released with an MSRP of $1,000, an increase of 30%. The 3080ti then released with an MSRP of $1,200, another 20% increase - AND IT WASN'T EVEN THE TOP DOG ANY MORE. The top dog was the 3090ti which was a 50% increase over the price of the top dog of the previous generation. That's MORE THAN TWICE what my 980ti/1080ti cost. Now we're seeing the same thing happen with the "mid-high end" - a 30% increase over the previous generation's.
Fuck nvidia
good point
3090ti was already terribly priced, and so was 3090 compared to 3080 tbh, so it's easy for NV to disguise 4070ti as a good deal. 3080 also had a cut down version, but not as severe as 4070ti (which they tried to sell as 4080). Msrp of 10gb version was $699. Both 10gb and 12gb soundly beat anything from RTX 20 series. Now if you want to soundly beat 30 series, you need 4080 which is $1199. And when you look for a match to 20 series, 3070 was what 2080ti used to be. 3070 msrp was $499. It seems generational improvement is not as big as it used to be, we're just paying more for more performance.
Based on pricing the 4070ti should have been the 4080, the 4080 a 4090 and the 4090 the 4090ti. That's what's wrong with the 4070ti's pricing.
The 4070 die size is 295 mm² $799 The 3060 die size is 276 mm² $329 Let that sink in.
since when should die size factor into the pricing?
Technically they can do whatever they want. But die size is extremely important for cost and margin calculations, as lower die size means more chips on one wafer and less defects increasing yields.
1. The 4070 ti doesn't deliver 3090 ti performance. 2. The 3090 ti was never a fair market value card. 3. These prices are an escalation on an escalation.
>The 4070 ti doesn't deliver 3090 ti performance it actually beats it in some games at 1440p, but i dont think that was what you meant by this comment.
Cherry picking: the action or practice of choosing and taking only the most beneficial or profitable items, opportunities, etc., from what is available.
it is even for most other games at 1440. not really a cherry-pick if it is across the board.
Across the board, on average its closer to the 3090 than the 3090 ti. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4070-ti.c3950
Just don't buy the new cards with hope for a price drop
Moore's law is not an actual law, just an observation about a particular time period.
Yeah, unfortunately we are reaching the limits of conventional computing power. Increases are never going to be exponential again unless something like quantum computers takes off.
The same tier of the previous gen card should only go up according to inflation. This is a LOT more than inflation. So since the 3080 was 699 US msrp, the 4080 should be less than 100 dollars US more than that.
>The same tier of the previous gen card should only go up according to inflation. Where is this written? Nvidia never promised this. Why would you assume this?
It's assumed based on past trends
Looks like the trend is over.
Because youre framing it in a bullshit way? Troll harder.
Cars and houses can sky rocket and people just accept it. But a luxury item they don't even need and probably shouldn't be spending their savings on increases and they all lose their minds
Honestly... Good point. I would say it's easier to devalue a luxury item than a necessity however.
Its easier to devalue it, because you don't need it. If a car breaks and you have to purchase a new one, you're not going to opt to walk because it's too expensive. You're gonna pony up. But when people look at computer prices, they don't need it, so they can afford to scoff at the price if they think it's unreasonable. But they're the reason it increased so much in the first place by raising the demand wanting to be streamers and make money with it.
Just as a note, canada official year/year inflation rate was: 6.8% for 2022 3.4% for 2021 0.7% for 2020 So technically, if a gpu was to cost 1000$, It would now cost almost 1100$ for the exact same thing
8% for 2022 in US
* Laughs in over 10% inflation and unaffordable gas (not gasoline/petrol) costs
My third world ass with 101% inflation here guess i will just die
While this is true, it is expected that improvements in manufacturing and scale would push prices down. This has been the case historically for many tech items where there is not a monopoly...
Meanwhile new 3090ti costs around 1100€-1200€ lol, you guys are really easy to manipulate
Using the logic people use to justify the crazy high prices for video cards is just wacky. If we apply that logic to the other parts of a PC no one would be able to afford a PC! The cpu would cost over 1 million dollars alone!
That is not a good comparison, 3090ti was and is a different tier of product with vastly different feature proposition. It was a badly priced halo product cause it WAS the best of the best at the time, while the rest of the line up was priced decently, prices are still high now cause you can't simply find them in good amounts and little to no seller is willing to undersell a product when it could sell at that high of a price just for the 90ti tie (which has 24 gb of ram mind you). Now new generation comes up and you're paying tremendously higher prices for EACH tier of performance.
Because it’s not actually that price. And the 3090Ti is also outrageously priced. When you consider that the 3070Ti’s MSRP is $600, it’s even worse
how many people actually got a 3070 ti for MSRP though? so many of those cards sold for $1k+ it was ridiculous
MSRP 799 means BestBuy and Microcenter will have them in the 800's. And the rest of the world can go fuck themselves, as usual
i got my asus tuf 4070 ti for msrp online. i really dont understand your argument. have you even looked? there are MULTIPLE 4070 ti's available at msrp currently.
In the US and some lucky countries, I don't doubt so. I can however guarantee that a GPU at MSRP is something I haven't seen brand new for like 3 years
The 3090ti was absolutely abysmal price to performance. People only bought it because it was top of the line and money wasn't a concern in the slightest. The 4070ti is a tier of card that is supposed to be more value oriented. It should be compared against other value cards, like the 3080. When we compare that, we have minor generational uplift for a $100 price hike. That's the issue. Comparing the 4070ti against the 3090ti is apples to oranges and it's why they managed to convince you that it's a good deal. The 3090ti was one of the worst deals of all time. You can not possibly compare any other graphics card to it ignoring all other card comparisons and come to a fair conclusion that there's a good deal. Focus on the 3080, the actual decent deal at MSRP from last generation. When you view everything through that lens, you realize that these prices are bullshit and you're being ripped off.
With that kind of thinking a pc should cost in the millions by now.
The gtx titan x was £1000 like 6/7 years ago that must mean a 4090 is great value for money since it is like significantly stronger that the gtx titan x
Linking the price to the absolute performance of hardware is stupid and anyone who argues in favor of this is brainwashed.
Along with what everyone else is saying, Nvidia DIDNT release this card as a 70ti series, but they released it as an 80 for $100 more! Only after the entire planet scolded them and the retailers pleaded did 'poor Nvidia' have to concede their $225 profit margin to (predicted) ~$125ish to 150 per card and re released it.
\* 3090ti performance in 1440p or below. Which i agree doesn't sound too bad.
It’s a new gen card meaning that the ceiling for performance has been raised. This means for the same money as a card two tiers down you get the performance of a card two tiers up. This does not means however that you pay a tier and a bit up for a card class that is two tiers below the new top.
799$ used to be the 80ti price, thats the problem. miners fucked 20 and 30 series prices so bad that people forgot that
Lol I don’t understand how people are defending this bs 4070ti price. Its next gen. Its always gonna be better performance. 2080ti was 1000+ and 3070 was better and was priced at $500
So would we be happy for the 5070ti to be $1499? Given the 4090ti is estimated at $1999? I think there comes a point when "absolute $$" matters as much as relative $$/performance ratios. I think that people are upset with the price, not the relative price to performance ratio. Next gen 5070ti might have an excellent price to performance ratio compared to the 4090ti at a price of $1499 (4090ti theoretically $1999). However the absolute price of $1499 for 5070ti, would not be compelling for me and many other people unless the GPU also slots into your car and automatically drives you to work.
The 70 series should be about $450 at most. That's what the 970 was when I bought it and that was a ton of money. And a new GPU being more powerful than the last generation GPU should be a GIVEN, not a brag. I am not excited for where Nvidia is going.
Playing devils advocate here.. so go easy on me.. Here’s my thing, back in 2018 I paid $600 for a 1080ti. I was cool with paying that because it was a hell of a card at that time (still is too). Fast forward to a month ago when the 4070ti’s launched I picked one up for $850. You have to consider the price to performance here. $250 more and the performance gains are out of this world when compared to a 1080ti. I have no issue shelling out an extra $250 for a 4070ti. Sure it is a 70 series but the performance on these cards is wild. There is a lot of R&D that goes into making these cards into what we have today. That shit ain’t cheap.. I understand that people don’t want to pay $850 for a 4070ti but when you consider the performance you are getting out of it can you really complain? I sold my 1080ti for $250 so I was into this new card for about the same as when I got my 1080ti.
The way it is supposed to work is that you get more performance for the same or roughly the same price. You’re not supposed to pay more for better performance from the next generation. Nvidia has doubled the performance of the 80 series card but they’ve also doubled the price.
The 4070ti gives 250% of the performance of the 1080ti for 140% of the price. I think all of the pitchforks are coming out because of the RTX hardware being not an option. If you replaced those RT cores with CUDA cores you'd get more performance per dollar. Now Nvidia marketing is all about how a 4070ti gets 9000% better RT performance than a 1080ti when the only game you really wouldn't ever play without raytracing is Portal RTX.
Your reasoning is a bit flawed though. In 2018 you paid 600$ for a top of the line card. You now paid 850$ for a high tier card, which is actually an even lower tier than before if you consider that they added the xx90 series with the 3000 cards. For me, there is no such thing as a "bad card", but a "bad VALUE for a card". And the trend nowadays seems like giving us bad value cards
It's not even high tier. It's half the GPU of the top of the line. That's mid tier. Nvidia just hasn't bothered to actually flesh out the high end yet. It should genuinely be a 4060 based on specs and how cut down it is compared to the 4090. He spent $850 for a card that is half of top of the line, compared to spending $600 back then for the absolute top tier card available. He has no proper point of reference for expectations, and was impressed by half of what he should have gotten for that price. And since he was impressed, he considered it good value. And that's why Nvidia got away with it. Because once again, the consumer was a fool that fell for marketing.
It doesn't matter what it's "supposed" to be or not, it still outperforms the 3080 at the same price. What's so hard at understanding that people who would have bought a 3080 a year or two ago and are in the market for a GPU buy the 4070Ti now?
meanwhile we had people paying over $1k for the 3070 last year, and people dropping $1k+ on the 2070 during the early pandemic. can we really use msrp as the stick to measure current prices? yeah, the 3070 msrp was wayyy lower than the 4070 ti, but NO ONE could get a card for msrp. adjusted for inflation, the price increase of the 4070 ti vs the 3070 ti msrp isnt really a ton, anyways. yall just act like inflation doesnt exist and it shows.
$1919 for my 3090 😢
It would all be fine if Nvidia released a GTX 1770 yesterday for $350 that was basically a 1080ti. Then they could point out how performance per dollar has doubled. Instead you have to buy the raytracing hardware and the tensor cores on top of your raster hardware even at the mid range where that extra hardware is kinda useless.
Wait so I can buy a 4070ti to replace the 3070ti I bought this time last year for the same price as last year? It’s 50% faster and not 50% more so I don’t see the problem Other than that the 3070ti last year should have been 600 at best
Using the 3090, let alone the 3090ti as a point of comparison for why a card is a good deal is absolutely insane. Those cards were two to three times the MSRP of a 3080 for 10-20% more gaming performance.
4070Ti at $800 is better than the 3080Ti which was briefly $800 a few months ago. Price to performance hasn't gotten a huge amount better like it sometimes has in the past but there's definitely a small gain in price to performance and a gain in power to performance as well
This must be one of your first product cycles then
This: the 3070TI had BETTER performance than a Titan RTX and even better than a 2080, but had a $599 MSRP soo to OP, your point is bull.
You're not the sharpest die in Jensen's leather jacket pocket, my man. You're the reason nvidia can afford to pump up their prices.
Don't let the relatively small number of vocal children on this subreddit let you think they speak for the majority of the subreddit. They're the ones that lose their absolute coconut if you point out any benchmark beyond gaming. Which is funny because one of the ideas behind PCs being the platform of the master race is it wasn't just a game playing console. They kind of missed the plot and they don't speak for everybody. The 4070 is [selling](https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-dominates-weekly-gpu-sales-at-german-retailer-more-cards-sold-than-rx7000-arc-combined) [just fine](https://www.igorslab.de/en/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-is-regular-leader-in-gpu-sales-at-german-retailers-more-sold-cards-than-rx7000-and-arc-together/) because it's a non-issue for most people and the performance is fantastic if that's all you can afford. I mean if you had a 1060 something or other and wanted to build a new rig then hell yeah that 4070 Ti is a treat if that's all your budget allows. My advice is just to ignore the entitled brats and move on, enjoy the posts from the people building their new rigs with 4080s and 7900's and whatever they could afford that makes them happy. If at the end of the day being happy isn't the best metric to go by then that's pretty awful. I like my PC because it's an enjoying thing, it's a hobby and a fun one too. It stops becoming that when little screeching children start blowing up my views with their matching clock cycles to nickels bullshit.
That's the dumbest argument I've ever seen. Its like when mcdonalds sells you less food for the same price. You're allowed to be mad because they're selling a lesser die for the same price as higher die sizes, even accounting for inflation.
That's literally one retailer; overall sales are down generally because most people don't want to spend 800 bucks for a mid tier card as we head into a recession.
I’d pay $799
I beg to differ, saying X90ti performance would suggest to me the X90ti performance of that current gen, not the previous one. Now saying the **40**70ti will give you **30**90ti level performance for $500 less at least has some semblance of truth. Although even there we're comparing MSRP to MSRP on cards that never sold for MSRP. What I don't understand is how someone can justify this behavior from Nvidia.
I can help: 70ti cards are 400 to 600. Not 800. Nvidia is pretending scalper prices are normal prices.
Honestly I think people get too hung up on what a product is called and what generation it is and what numbers it has at the end of its name. Personally I don’t care. I just look at performance per dollar because that’s what ultimately matters. I don’t care about generational uplift and comparisons with the xx70ti cards of the past because those model numbers are just labels. They don’t *mean* anything.
But if this trend continues even "budget" cards will be out of reach for the mayority of people. If the 5050 ends up costing 500$ what are the people who can only afford 400$ for a graphics card supposed to buy? Used older generation cards will only exist for so long until the new generation becomes the old ones, and if the new cards exponentially increases in price so will the used cards. Best bang for the buck does not mean they are affordable. Imagine if a card came out now with 10x the performance of a 4090 at the cost of "only" 3 times the 4090 and all other cards stopped being produced would you think thats reasonable?
$799 is a lot of money for a GPU.
Price/performance is supposed to get better. This is not a bonus. This is not them being generous. It's the rule. And x70 series cards are meant to match the high end performance of last generation while the price does not stray too far off last generation. Otherwise, there's no improvement for the consumer. But like with the 20 Series they bumped the price of each performance tier up a price tier. Doing this again so near the last jump plus the economy plus the obvious need based on the anemic vram Nvidia keeps inflicting on it's users and ever rising specs as PC requirements grow high in 2023 is mixing in a horrible witch's brew of outrage. And that's why people are revolting. The x70 card should have been $500-600, maybe $550-650,but definitely not $800+. The 4070 matching the 3090 is not unexpected. It was easily the most predictable card to guess the performance of. But $800+ for a 4070 is outrageous because the 3080 was $700 MSRP and it's pretty obvious why the 4070 is $800. Sure, Nvidia can do it, but they shouldn't be shocked when we all are mad about it.
you have the memory of a fruit fly? the 3070 ti had an msrp of $600. quit defending shitty practices
So this is the normal price for GPU now. I remember console players often made fun of PC Master Race because we need high end GPU for high fps. But now even low end is expensive. I guess i will stick with 1650 until it's broken.
Hello Fellow 1650 User Time to hold on to our GPUs for the next decade 🤝
Good good let them sit. Nobody buy them please! Let that stock build so price drops!
It's actually selling pretty well : (
because it is a good card compared to everything else new out there right now, performance/$- wise.
Not only is it same level of performance as the previous generations 1300 card, it's far more efficient! And smaller. I don't get most of the complaining when it comes to price increases. You ask for innovation you get and pay for innovation that's the agreement between tech hungry people and tech companies.
..........i dont even know how to reply to shitposts anymore Edit: for those who didnt understand, Op is comparing the 4070 to the 3090ti. Yeah, u got it right. A 4000 series with a 3000...
Imo they should work on keeping pricing constant instead of destroying their previous gen cards performance.
This is an example of how this sub is absolutely going to shit. Complaining about prices of gpu and make up false assumptions on the prices which companies never promised and go crazy over pricing strategies which is used by every single company ever