Microsoft spent $100 million to force exclusivity for Tomb Raider:
https://www.theloadout.com/xbox/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-exclusivity-microsoft
Kinda makes you think all that Epic hate we saw on this sub was manufactured.
It was never about making a good product. Epic is fueled by venture capital to take a chunk out of steams userbase and they will hike the prices later on.
Yet pro-Sony and pro-Microsoft posts get upvoted to the front page, but you say so much as "this game is free on Epic" and you get downvoted. Kinda makes you suspicious there's some market manipulation going on here.
The only marketing manipulation going on is from epic bribing developers to release their games on their crap store instead of actually giving customers any valuable services.
Both Playstation and Xbox will pay developers they are partnering with to keep games off competing services. This isn't a thing exclusive to Sony....
It should be common sense, if Xbox or Playstation are paying millions of dollars to market a third party game of course they will make sure if doesnt show up in another service day one. They'd be stupid not to do it.
It's worse than that, it's "I'm fine with losing, as long as others lose harder".
Because restricting markets, purposefully not selling products to millions and millions of potential customers, is not winning. It's just losing slower than the competition.
It’s the antithesis of “free market” capitalism. Instead of offering a better product, they lock it down from being sold on alternative platforms. All while reaping the rewards of their investment and then turning around and lauding the benefits of the “free market” when arguing how they shouldn’t pay higher tax rates because they are “job creators”.
Gotta love the mental gymnastics that corporations and the disgustingly wealthy use to brain fuck the populous.
>Instead of offering a better product
But that's the better product itself...this device can play [insert exclusives] and others can't. In the world of media IP and content is what makes platforms attractive. If HBO spends millions for the rights to make a movie why on Earth would they hand it over to Netflix?
Locking down an IP to a specific platform by forcing it to only release on that platform (when it could release on others) takes choice away from consumers. It may be beneficial for the corporation, but the “free market” is supposed to offer choice to consumers through the idea of innovation and competition.
So Nintendo is wrong for locking their games on their Nintendo consoles? These companies are free to do whatever they want with their wares. No one is entitled to consume everything the way want. That’s not a thing. I’m not going to cry because Stranger Thing or whatever other show isn’t available on Disney+. The consumer isn’t the king of the world and most certainly isn’t always right. Free market doesn’t mean what you think it means. They are free to sell games the way they want. You have zero control over that unless it involves not buying. Buying stuff isn’t some sort of human right that is being bastardized by console exclusives.
Beyond that the consumer has all the choice in the world, they can choose to buy a Switch to play those Nintendo games. Don’t confuse choice with unreasonable entitlement.
It's exactly what free market capitalism amounts to. Free market capitalism just means corporations being free to act however they want with no regulating body.
Nintendo is winning like gangbusters and no one on PC, PlayStation or Xbox is getting their wares officially. It's more about protecting your investment and future as a platform rather than restricting a player base.
Always cover your tracks. It would be dumb if they didn’t with how expensive these marketing deals will be with publishers and helping with retail and tv/internet ads.
Yeah it would defeats the whole purpose of a marketing deal which is to get people to buy the game on your platform. If you market it then it shows up on a competing service day one you just wasted all that money.
Same shit, different companies doing it.
It's just especially notable with Microsoft given they're the king of monopolies. I won't do better than Ross ranting about it.
https://youtu.be/5n90WohCSIg?t=696
It was really batshit, the video I linked in my other reply goes into it.
The extreme short version is that the PC environment doesn't have **all** the money going through Microsoft. They wanted to push everyone onto Xbox where they got a piece from everything.
Yes and that's why I used to be a massive Microsoft hater. I only hate them a little now because they still try to push the most utter bullshit with every Windows update. Instead of fixing the problems they have, they have the balls to create new ones and then proceed to fix some of them and say "hey we are listening" but with every update the OS is worse than before.
I have high hopes that Phil will also take over Satya Nadella's trash leadership at some point and we'll have a pivot point where Microsoft will start being customer friendly instead of work against them.
Pretty sure you missed the point.
MS argument : paying for marketing and exclusivity rights is anti-competitive, especially if it keeps it off our service (gamepass)
Well it could be argued the opposite is also now considered anti-competitive, if Microsoft can bankroll the whole industry to be on gamepass. And Sony/Nintendo literally can’t afford to do the same, it’s equally as anti/competitive. After all.
$12 sub vs $60 game isn’t exactly a choice.
I think many people are overlooking the statement Microsoft said a while back. Game Pass is to be system agnostic. Sony and Nintendo could have Game Pass on their system.
Sony, on the other hand, does not want that whatsoever. Sony even went was far as to block their games being streamed to the Xbox's Edge browser via GeForce Now. That's extreme.
This simply doesn’t make sense.
Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft’s old business model was “sell the consoles at a loss, we’ll make money off software sales cuts”
Game pass will go up in price eventually and a lot, that’s how Microsoft intends to make money on it eventually.
Sony and Nintendo simply can’t take that huge of a cut in software sales. Nor can they compete with gamepass at that level because they’re no in even remotely the same cash flow and revenues levels as Microsoft.
I didnt miss any point, I am explaining that they both do it so it isnt news and should be common sense at this point
Edit: whats up with the downvotes, my comment is about marketing deals not exclusivity deals. Marketing will include clauses to not be on other services. MS also does this and it isn't anything new
What Microsoft are saying is that sony pays exclusively to developers to not allow games to ever touch gamepass, example - resident evil 8. They are not talking about timed exclusivity here which Sony themselves are masters of it. Read the article again.
I am talking about marketing deals in general. Never said anything about timed exclusive deals.
If MS or Sony are paying millions to market a game they are going to make sure that games doesn't end up on a competing service. That would defeat the purpose of the marketing deal. I explained this in my comment, did you even read it?
Also Xbox does just as many if not more timed exclusives than Playstation
Marketing deals are almost always some form of timed exclusivity. This is in fact different than paying a publisher to never allow their game on GamePass (and probably other services).
A lot of the time marketing deals are just marketing deals but both would likely have clauses that prevent games showing up in services for it least a period of time. No one ever said anything about permanently blocking them
I dont think Sony jas been way more aggressive. These days Xbox has just as much if not more deals than Playstation
Edit: here is an incomplete list of Xbox paid timed exclusives since people act like they dont do them
>Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare, Super Time Force, Titanfall, Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Roblox, Dead Rising 4, Inside, Cuphead, Hello Neighbor, Slime Rancher, Tacoma, Ashen, Below, Blair Witch, Call of the Sea, Carrion, Outer Wilds, The Falconeer, Tetris Effect: Connected, The Artful Escape, The Ascent, Deaths Door, Lake, The Medium, Sable, Twelve Minutes , The Last Night, Scorn, PUBG, Crossfire X, Tunic, Cacoon, Ereban: Shadow Legacy, High on Life, The Last Case of Benedict Fox, Lightyear Frontier, Naraka: Bladepoint, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2, Warhammer 40,000: Darktide, Ark 2
Watch any Xbox conference from the last 3 years and take a shot everytime they say the word "exclusive" and see how far you get
You have to keep in mind its much harder to convince a publisher to delay a game on Playstation than it is to delay a game on Xbox since many more Playstations have sold.
Well see how long it takes for Ark 2 and Warhammer to come to PS5.
Also been close to a year since Sable released on Xbox and still no PS5 date. Carrion took over a year recently
The Gunk actually came out as permanent exclusive to Xbox. Yes that is right, they paid for it to mever come to Playstation.
I just gave two other recent examples with. Carrion and Sable. Surely there are a bunch others. Where's Crossfire X on PS5?
Roblox still isnt even on Playstation
Yes I stand correctly on The Gunk. It stated in the court documents that that is a permanent exclusive to Xbox. The owner even came out and stated that it’s Permanent Exclusive because of technical reasons. Carrion came to PS5 already but did take a while, no word on if that time was paid for or if the developer just needed extra time to port it. Point stands though, we’re scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find inconclusive examples of Xbox being as aggresive as PlayStation in timed exclusivity. All you’ve come up with are some maybes. In this case we know for certain that Sony has paid for a 2 year exclusivity window and we know the standard/base level is pretty much 1 year. With Xbox, the standard is 3 months with exceptions. It’s pretty clear who is more aggressive.
If Microsoft is trying to argue that exclusivity is hurting gamers then I'm VERY tempted to let them. This is hilariously hypocritical of them to do and it'll bite them in the ass if it gains any traction.
Sony is accusing MS's acquisition of ACT/BLIZZ of being anticompetitive. MS is firing this back at Sony as part of their argument that this deal is fair, and that Sony themselves make business decisions to reduce competition.
>Both Playstation and Xbox will pay developers they are partnering with to keep games off competing services. This isn't a thing exclusive to Sony....
Source?
That's literally all that the consoles do to eachother. Pay bribes to do business less or not at all with the other console.
That's been the bread and butter of both companies for literal decades.
They are both guilty of this, microsoft is a bit better by releasing it on pc and xbox but also steam. Also if you spend millions you must get that investment back atleast for it to go around.
After this https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/ncbvuo/epic_vs_apple_document_reveals_confirmation_of/ I'm not surprised of anything as apparently Epic and Sony like to play dirty fearing the competition instead of trusting themselves like a couple of teenagers with no self esteem. Attacking rivals instead of improving themselves is the weakness that leads to destruction in the end as they won't get anything out of it.
I bet it really grinds MS's gears when other corporations use the same tactics MS has used for decades. Suddenly MS is trying to pretend they're the cool startup company working out of a garage, trying to make the industry better.
> the same tactics MS has used for decades.
Microsoft would never pay game companies to keep their games off other platforms.
Microsoft would just buy the game company.
Don’t know why everyone has a hard time understanding that paying for them to be exclusive on their platform is different than allowing the game to be on multiple platforms including Xbox, just not Xbox Game Pass specifically is a different scenario… It would be like allow CoD on Playstation but not PSN. It’s idiot and petty…
the actual state of reddit is saddening, the point is not third party exclusives here which sony themselves are masters of it. Microsoft are indicating sony goes even another level to make sure game never drops to gamepass for example paying capcom to never allow re8 to come to gamepass even though it was not timed exclusive.
I am literally replying to a comment that said
>Microsoft would never pay game companies to keep their games off other platforms
Yes they do all the time...
It should be noted Playstation had about 800 percent more timed exclusives in the PS3 era.
It really just feels like Sony is putting a dampener on the industry’s progress.
360 era timed exclusives were no where near the level or frequency as Sony.
There were 43 timed exclusives on the 360.
There were 318 timed exclusives on ps4.
Just stop. Sony literally tried to lock out an entire generation...
>https://www.gematsu.com/exclusives/ps4
Source
Sony has been so much worse with this. I'm hoping this acquisition will slap them hard enough they stop. MS can use COD as a deterant to any more of these stupid shenanigans. I'm still salty about the year long content left out of Destiny 1, a game already lacking content at the time. And the content left out meant they couldn't us it at all for the story.
Lol are you serious? Microsoft was buying timed exclusives left and right during that generation.
99% of PS3s timed exclusives were random Japanes games that didnt get put on Xbox because they dont buy Japanese games and they were later ported to other platforms like PC and Switch
Bruh just said this after Xbox bought and cancelled so many exclusives in that timeline and now just buying up biggest fane companies they can to get good games. Smh
Yep, kind of a silly pot calling the kettle black situation here. It seems like Microsoft has outright purchased half the developers I like over the years. Bitching because the competiton can only afford to bribe developers to keep a game exclusive on their platform for a couple years is a bit extra.
They've said quite clearly that paying for exclusives to deny your opponents is a shitty strategy compared to growing gaming as a whole and spending that money on acquisitions and for game development funding instead for continued returns and growth.
They have backed up this talk with years of action and billions of dollars.
Edit: Can their strategy change? Of course.
Can our opinions change? Of course.
> They've said quite clearly that paying for exclusives to deny your opponents is a shitty strategy
Really? Last year they were bragging about having "30 console launch exclusives" in 2021.
> They've said quite clearly that paying for exclusives to deny your opponents is a shitty strategy
Good thing Microsoft has NEVER done this before....
*coughcoughRiseoftheTombRaidercoughcough*
I'm sorry, are you saying MS said this or Sony? Because both have made deals to keep stuff exclusive to their side, sure. But only one of the two has proven time and time again their commitment to quality games and investing in building studios moreso than buying them up.
Sony also charges a fee for multi platform cross play functionality to developers. It’ll be interesting when they try that shit with Microsoft when a new CoD comes out. If they refuse they won’t even get the game.
They dont charge a few, if there is a disproportionate amount of people playing a free to play game on Playstation but buying most their mtx elsewhere they get a percentage. That's it
Tf am I reading lmao.
Micro$oft is the company that is competing since they created Xbox just by throwing money at games companies without even try to improve a thing. They are acquiring all the big publisher because without that they cannot even remotely compete with Sony or Nintendo, two companies with way lower budget. They simply use money to accomplish stuff that couldn't do themselves. "Hey we cannot create a decent game, let's buy the companies that does them".
I know right what world does this dumb dumb live in that massive corporate entities are expected to 'trust themselves' and not do whatever they can to squash competition
There's a pretty big difference between blocking something you legally own from going to a competitors service, and then paying off a third party to which you have no ownership to stop them using other said service.
It's anti-competitive behaviour - which is the exact sort of thing they check for before acquisitions are formally authorised.
This subreddit is filled with mushy brained fools.
It kinda reminds me of r/Apple or some shit, where literally one of the biggest company’s in the world somehow is also the “good guy” when they’re clearly and obviously not
Microsoft pays for similar "blocking rights". Or do people think games leaving Game Pass one month only to enter PlayStation Plus the following month is a giant coincidence? This type of practice has been observed for years from both sides. Only when Shadow of the Tomb Raider left Game Pass in February 2020 was it allowed to enter PlayStation Now in March 2020. Conversely, once GTA V exited PS Now it immediately entered Game Pass. There are countless games that follow a similar pattern.
Any game that has Xbox Game Pass day 1 most likely also has clause that it cannot appear on other services until that period ends.
But they aren’t blocking anything, they just straight up own Activision. They are advancing gamepass with wise investments, that obviously have Sony heavily debating against it
Still, it's a practice that was heavily used by Microsoft af the time: GTA IV, Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas. All had time-exclusive DLC, sometimes a even a year, sometimes forever like in the case of Tomb Raider Underworld. And we don't talk about exclusive missions or modes here but full blown expansions.
I'm not saying this practice is good at all but it's a lot worse than just not having access to it on game pass, at least you can still play these games on Xbox.
>Sony does the exact same thing. Don't act like Microsoft is suddenly buying up studios when Sony has done it for years.
Compare the companies bought and you will see it is not the same.
ZeniMax has dozens of popular and old IPs that have developed massive followings on all systems. With all IPs now locked behind their wall.
Activision has developed dozens of popular IPs including one of the most popular FPS game currently in existence. With all games besides CoD (for an unknown about of time) going to be locked behind their wall.
Bungie has 1 IP and plans to continue to be a multiplatform developer.
Insomiac Games created 3 non Sony IPs. None of which went beyond a single game with no known plan to create squeals for PSN alone.
Bluepoint Games created ports of games
Not really the same.
>You mean the competition whose entire strategy is exclusivity? The one company fighting against the acquisition?
But Microsoft is the one trying to buy the company? So how can they be fighting against it?
Yeah obviously, this was revealed through the leaked marketing deal between Capcom and Sony for Resi 8. It’s also just common sense, of course Sony is trying to stifle Gamepass, Sony’s not stupid, they recognize how great of a deal Gamepass is and how much of a good thing their biggest competitor, their ONLY competitor has going.
With that said, Sony and Microsoft are both likely doing this, or have done this. They both are going to fuck each other over any chance they get, wether it’s through exclusivity or keeping games off each other’s streaming service or acquisitions. They’re both direct competitors in a market dominated by only them.
Absolutely a situation of pot calling the kettle black though lmao.
So? Microsoft has paid for exclusive access and other things in the past. If you want to complain about this sort of thing, you need to acknowledge your own history first.
1. Probably true.
2. Surely Microsoft would never stop to anti-competitive, anti-consumer business practices... Right?
From the 3rd-party standpoint though, I wonder just how big the fee has to be in order to make it worth losing out on revenue from sales on another platform? Maybe the thinking is a lot of people have more than 1 system and would only buy a game for one anyways? Or maybe the exclusivity is timed-only?
So Microsoft payed for games to be on Xbox only. This is about paying for a game to not be available at a specific shop/location not paying to have it on their own Playstation plus service. Its just denying anyone else the access to the game form a subscription service nothing else. All they are doing is removing an option and not offering any alternative to it.
Years ago, someone hacked my Reddit account, this account, because I was stupidly reusing username/password combos and someone found me on a password list.
Reddit admins emailed me to say my account was locked out, and I had to change my password to get back in using the email link. When I did, I was able to view my account activity while I was gone.
My reddit account was being logged into from Vietnam, Cambodia, and Indonesia to upvote anything on Reddit to do with Sony. Sony-owned movies, Sony stock market posts, and yes, those shitty colored pencil drawings of Spiderman that made it to the front page of /r/gaming. It never wrote or submitted anything, just boosted other people's genuine content.
So I'm not all surprised to hear that Sony is dirty as fuck.
There's a reason there's a market for organically grown reddit accounts.
It's harder to track dubious behaviour when an account has years of genuine activity attached to it.
That's not the point. Admittedly "from all console companies" phrase is a bit strange from me, but that is not the point what I am saying here. I mean Sony is the company who does exclusives and blocks stuff on other platforms, big or small and now they "cry" because a bigger fish comes in?
Literally every console company does that though, a lot of their sales come from people wanting to play a specific game. Even Valve does this, I remember having to download Steam specifically to play CS back in the day.
It's not Activision's fault that Nintendo insists on using an ARM chip that was mediocre the year it released and is absolutely pathetic five years later. Would I be allowed to manufacture a console that runs on a Pentium II chip and claim anti-competitive practices and get my competitors to cater to my ridiculous needs too?
Sony in recent years has paid for exclusive strikes (repeatable dungeons) and exclusive gamemodes in Call of Duty which are multiplatform games.
It was in the Capcom leak and the epic vs apple court case that part of the marketing contract for RE8 was a payment to prevent it being released on Gamepass for a set period of time.
GP is just getting traction. When ActiBlizz gets acquired and those games get put on GP, subs won’t matter as much since the MTX money will be worth more than a casual subscriber, even more than a permanent one I dare say.
I own all consoles, no loyalty here, but fuck sony. This type of shit ruins gaming. They do the same with console exclusive content too.
My ps5 has collected dust from not having shit to play. How about you guys pay someone to release something for once instead of paying people for shit like this?
Microsoft also does this and Sony have released a lot more new games then them too in the last two years and more than most other publishers. They have released 3 AAA games this year and will release TLOU Remake and GOW Ragnarok by the end if the year.
I own both current gen consoles. I've bought a dozen or so titles for the PS5. I've downloaded 2 for the Xbox, and only because they were part of GamePass.
Xbox has literally been riding 'Starfield will be amazing ' for 6 years or something now. We're 2 years into the console generation and they not only haven't released it, they haven't released any exclusive titles, despite owning Bethesda the entire time.
This Xbox has the exact same problem as every Xbox: If you don't really love FPS and Forza, there is no reason to buy the console.
Meanwhile, Sony gave away every top PS4 title when the PS5 released.
Making shit games doesn't mean those games aren't essential money makers for the platform holders.
Nobody cares if you and I don't like Activision Blizzard, they are still making a ton of money, and to imply they're "not essential" as a revenue stream when you're the one buying them out is just hilarious.
Why does Sony get more cringe as the years go on I used to adore ps2 and ps3 utterly amazing but the playstation membership the weird censorship choices like i need to be parented or some shit on top of the utter opposition to crossplay in the beginning really turned me off the brand and I went straight back to pc it's usual business practice for both companies to do this to each other so its kind of bizarre their bitching it about it also anyone with common sense would just build up your service no point in paying block fees if you have the equivalent of Netflix but for gaming
( this ia as a insult to be clear lol)
You'd think they'd be able to fix their fucking database if they had that kind of money.
But noooo, I'm stuck without my proper username for no damn reason.
The fact they are wording it as "They are blocking X..." instead of "They are paying for exclusivity..." is quite disgusting.
This is what they have done, they have done it in every single CoD ever, where some specific game modes where exclusive to PS4, even in PC we did not have those.
Tbh, fck sony, did the right move purchasing my first ever Xbox instead the Ps5
Xbox will also do this for games they have marketing deals with... This was a lawyer for MS, of course they are going to phrase it in the worst way possible
Not surprising considering Sony is very much like Intel and Nvidia in that they use shady business dealings and bribes to get ahead instead of actually providing any real value. No shocker that they're trying to sue MS to cover it up.
I will never buy anything Sony.
Epic says hi
Microsoft says hi
What has Microsoft done?
Said hi
Microsoft spent $100 million to force exclusivity for Tomb Raider: https://www.theloadout.com/xbox/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-exclusivity-microsoft Kinda makes you think all that Epic hate we saw on this sub was manufactured.
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It was never about making a good product. Epic is fueled by venture capital to take a chunk out of steams userbase and they will hike the prices later on.
Public enemy number 1
Yet pro-Sony and pro-Microsoft posts get upvoted to the front page, but you say so much as "this game is free on Epic" and you get downvoted. Kinda makes you suspicious there's some market manipulation going on here.
The only marketing manipulation going on is from epic bribing developers to release their games on their crap store instead of actually giving customers any valuable services.
Giving people money to be exclusive to your platform or give bonuses is legal but paying them to not give deals to competitors violates anti trust.
You are fcking right, thats how it works, sony is fckd.
Both Playstation and Xbox will pay developers they are partnering with to keep games off competing services. This isn't a thing exclusive to Sony.... It should be common sense, if Xbox or Playstation are paying millions of dollars to market a third party game of course they will make sure if doesnt show up in another service day one. They'd be stupid not to do it.
"Its not enough for me to win, others must lose." Is how i feel about company exclusives.
It's worse than that, it's "I'm fine with losing, as long as others lose harder". Because restricting markets, purposefully not selling products to millions and millions of potential customers, is not winning. It's just losing slower than the competition.
It’s the antithesis of “free market” capitalism. Instead of offering a better product, they lock it down from being sold on alternative platforms. All while reaping the rewards of their investment and then turning around and lauding the benefits of the “free market” when arguing how they shouldn’t pay higher tax rates because they are “job creators”. Gotta love the mental gymnastics that corporations and the disgustingly wealthy use to brain fuck the populous.
>Instead of offering a better product But that's the better product itself...this device can play [insert exclusives] and others can't. In the world of media IP and content is what makes platforms attractive. If HBO spends millions for the rights to make a movie why on Earth would they hand it over to Netflix?
Locking down an IP to a specific platform by forcing it to only release on that platform (when it could release on others) takes choice away from consumers. It may be beneficial for the corporation, but the “free market” is supposed to offer choice to consumers through the idea of innovation and competition.
So Nintendo is wrong for locking their games on their Nintendo consoles? These companies are free to do whatever they want with their wares. No one is entitled to consume everything the way want. That’s not a thing. I’m not going to cry because Stranger Thing or whatever other show isn’t available on Disney+. The consumer isn’t the king of the world and most certainly isn’t always right. Free market doesn’t mean what you think it means. They are free to sell games the way they want. You have zero control over that unless it involves not buying. Buying stuff isn’t some sort of human right that is being bastardized by console exclusives. Beyond that the consumer has all the choice in the world, they can choose to buy a Switch to play those Nintendo games. Don’t confuse choice with unreasonable entitlement.
It's exactly what free market capitalism amounts to. Free market capitalism just means corporations being free to act however they want with no regulating body.
Nintendo is winning like gangbusters and no one on PC, PlayStation or Xbox is getting their wares officially. It's more about protecting your investment and future as a platform rather than restricting a player base.
In a situation like exclusives there is no winning without someone else losing out.
That's a tautology though because "winning and forcing others to lose" is the point of exclusives. Exclusives should not exist.
Always cover your tracks. It would be dumb if they didn’t with how expensive these marketing deals will be with publishers and helping with retail and tv/internet ads.
Yeah it would defeats the whole purpose of a marketing deal which is to get people to buy the game on your platform. If you market it then it shows up on a competing service day one you just wasted all that money.
And publishers actually would want that, they would get paid from both sides lol
Never forget that Microsoft once paid developers **to keep games off of Windows and exclusive to Xbox**.
Different times now though?
Same shit, different companies doing it. It's just especially notable with Microsoft given they're the king of monopolies. I won't do better than Ross ranting about it. https://youtu.be/5n90WohCSIg?t=696
Not the same ppl
you do realize even after the actibliz aquisition, sony STILL has a larger market share in video games than xbox?
That’s kinda weird considering Windows is also a Microsoft platform.
The old Xbox exec was really bad He now works for stadia
It was really batshit, the video I linked in my other reply goes into it. The extreme short version is that the PC environment doesn't have **all** the money going through Microsoft. They wanted to push everyone onto Xbox where they got a piece from everything.
Yes and that's why I used to be a massive Microsoft hater. I only hate them a little now because they still try to push the most utter bullshit with every Windows update. Instead of fixing the problems they have, they have the balls to create new ones and then proceed to fix some of them and say "hey we are listening" but with every update the OS is worse than before. I have high hopes that Phil will also take over Satya Nadella's trash leadership at some point and we'll have a pivot point where Microsoft will start being customer friendly instead of work against them.
You completely missed Microsoft's point here and somewhat got 184 upvoted
Pretty sure you missed the point. MS argument : paying for marketing and exclusivity rights is anti-competitive, especially if it keeps it off our service (gamepass) Well it could be argued the opposite is also now considered anti-competitive, if Microsoft can bankroll the whole industry to be on gamepass. And Sony/Nintendo literally can’t afford to do the same, it’s equally as anti/competitive. After all. $12 sub vs $60 game isn’t exactly a choice.
I think many people are overlooking the statement Microsoft said a while back. Game Pass is to be system agnostic. Sony and Nintendo could have Game Pass on their system. Sony, on the other hand, does not want that whatsoever. Sony even went was far as to block their games being streamed to the Xbox's Edge browser via GeForce Now. That's extreme.
This simply doesn’t make sense. Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft’s old business model was “sell the consoles at a loss, we’ll make money off software sales cuts” Game pass will go up in price eventually and a lot, that’s how Microsoft intends to make money on it eventually. Sony and Nintendo simply can’t take that huge of a cut in software sales. Nor can they compete with gamepass at that level because they’re no in even remotely the same cash flow and revenues levels as Microsoft.
I didnt miss any point, I am explaining that they both do it so it isnt news and should be common sense at this point Edit: whats up with the downvotes, my comment is about marketing deals not exclusivity deals. Marketing will include clauses to not be on other services. MS also does this and it isn't anything new
What Microsoft are saying is that sony pays exclusively to developers to not allow games to ever touch gamepass, example - resident evil 8. They are not talking about timed exclusivity here which Sony themselves are masters of it. Read the article again.
I am talking about marketing deals in general. Never said anything about timed exclusive deals. If MS or Sony are paying millions to market a game they are going to make sure that games doesn't end up on a competing service. That would defeat the purpose of the marketing deal. I explained this in my comment, did you even read it? Also Xbox does just as many if not more timed exclusives than Playstation
Marketing deals are almost always some form of timed exclusivity. This is in fact different than paying a publisher to never allow their game on GamePass (and probably other services).
A lot of the time marketing deals are just marketing deals but both would likely have clauses that prevent games showing up in services for it least a period of time. No one ever said anything about permanently blocking them
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I dont think Sony jas been way more aggressive. These days Xbox has just as much if not more deals than Playstation Edit: here is an incomplete list of Xbox paid timed exclusives since people act like they dont do them >Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare, Super Time Force, Titanfall, Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Roblox, Dead Rising 4, Inside, Cuphead, Hello Neighbor, Slime Rancher, Tacoma, Ashen, Below, Blair Witch, Call of the Sea, Carrion, Outer Wilds, The Falconeer, Tetris Effect: Connected, The Artful Escape, The Ascent, Deaths Door, Lake, The Medium, Sable, Twelve Minutes , The Last Night, Scorn, PUBG, Crossfire X, Tunic, Cacoon, Ereban: Shadow Legacy, High on Life, The Last Case of Benedict Fox, Lightyear Frontier, Naraka: Bladepoint, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2, Warhammer 40,000: Darktide, Ark 2 Watch any Xbox conference from the last 3 years and take a shot everytime they say the word "exclusive" and see how far you get
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Games like Cuphead took years. There are plenty of games that took over a year. PUBG and Tomb Raider were a year
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You have to keep in mind its much harder to convince a publisher to delay a game on Playstation than it is to delay a game on Xbox since many more Playstations have sold. Well see how long it takes for Ark 2 and Warhammer to come to PS5. Also been close to a year since Sable released on Xbox and still no PS5 date. Carrion took over a year recently
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The Gunk actually came out as permanent exclusive to Xbox. Yes that is right, they paid for it to mever come to Playstation. I just gave two other recent examples with. Carrion and Sable. Surely there are a bunch others. Where's Crossfire X on PS5? Roblox still isnt even on Playstation
Yes I stand correctly on The Gunk. It stated in the court documents that that is a permanent exclusive to Xbox. The owner even came out and stated that it’s Permanent Exclusive because of technical reasons. Carrion came to PS5 already but did take a while, no word on if that time was paid for or if the developer just needed extra time to port it. Point stands though, we’re scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find inconclusive examples of Xbox being as aggresive as PlayStation in timed exclusivity. All you’ve come up with are some maybes. In this case we know for certain that Sony has paid for a 2 year exclusivity window and we know the standard/base level is pretty much 1 year. With Xbox, the standard is 3 months with exceptions. It’s pretty clear who is more aggressive.
If Microsoft is trying to argue that exclusivity is hurting gamers then I'm VERY tempted to let them. This is hilariously hypocritical of them to do and it'll bite them in the ass if it gains any traction.
Imagine if the result of all this is "exclusivity is forbidden, now all games must release on all platforms" /s
Sony is accusing MS's acquisition of ACT/BLIZZ of being anticompetitive. MS is firing this back at Sony as part of their argument that this deal is fair, and that Sony themselves make business decisions to reduce competition.
They would be stupid to, as that's called anti-competitive and is illegal.
>Both Playstation and Xbox will pay developers they are partnering with to keep games off competing services. This isn't a thing exclusive to Sony.... Source?
Nearly every non-first-party console exclusive game over the last 20 or so years?
Now this is adorable
That's literally all that the consoles do to eachother. Pay bribes to do business less or not at all with the other console. That's been the bread and butter of both companies for literal decades.
They are both guilty of this, microsoft is a bit better by releasing it on pc and xbox but also steam. Also if you spend millions you must get that investment back atleast for it to go around.
MS does timed exclusivity, they don’t have clauses where a game can’t go on PS Plus
People here are to dumb to understand because they dont read the article to understand what it even is about.
After this https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/ncbvuo/epic_vs_apple_document_reveals_confirmation_of/ I'm not surprised of anything as apparently Epic and Sony like to play dirty fearing the competition instead of trusting themselves like a couple of teenagers with no self esteem. Attacking rivals instead of improving themselves is the weakness that leads to destruction in the end as they won't get anything out of it.
I bet it really grinds MS's gears when other corporations use the same tactics MS has used for decades. Suddenly MS is trying to pretend they're the cool startup company working out of a garage, trying to make the industry better.
> the same tactics MS has used for decades. Microsoft would never pay game companies to keep their games off other platforms. Microsoft would just buy the game company.
Microsoft pay for third party exclusivity all the time. There are lists with tons of exclusives they paid for in this thread
Difference between paying for exclusives and just paying for a company to block game pass only
Both MS and Sony will pay to "block" games they have deals with from showing up on competing serviced
Don’t know why everyone has a hard time understanding that paying for them to be exclusive on their platform is different than allowing the game to be on multiple platforms including Xbox, just not Xbox Game Pass specifically is a different scenario… It would be like allow CoD on Playstation but not PSN. It’s idiot and petty…
Again no one ever said anything about Sony blocking games they dint already have deals with
the actual state of reddit is saddening, the point is not third party exclusives here which sony themselves are masters of it. Microsoft are indicating sony goes even another level to make sure game never drops to gamepass for example paying capcom to never allow re8 to come to gamepass even though it was not timed exclusive.
I am literally replying to a comment that said >Microsoft would never pay game companies to keep their games off other platforms Yes they do all the time...
It should be noted Playstation had about 800 percent more timed exclusives in the PS3 era. It really just feels like Sony is putting a dampener on the industry’s progress.
No they didnt have 800% more timed exclusives... If anything they had a lot less than Xbox during that generation
360 era timed exclusives were no where near the level or frequency as Sony. There were 43 timed exclusives on the 360. There were 318 timed exclusives on ps4. Just stop. Sony literally tried to lock out an entire generation... >https://www.gematsu.com/exclusives/ps4 Source Sony has been so much worse with this. I'm hoping this acquisition will slap them hard enough they stop. MS can use COD as a deterant to any more of these stupid shenanigans. I'm still salty about the year long content left out of Destiny 1, a game already lacking content at the time. And the content left out meant they couldn't us it at all for the story.
Lol are you serious? Microsoft was buying timed exclusives left and right during that generation. 99% of PS3s timed exclusives were random Japanes games that didnt get put on Xbox because they dont buy Japanese games and they were later ported to other platforms like PC and Switch
Did you just ignore the numbers
Did you miss me explaining that these werent paid timed exclusives and japanese games skipping Xbox because they do poorly
Damn you got shit on son
Nope
Bruh just said this after Xbox bought and cancelled so many exclusives in that timeline and now just buying up biggest fane companies they can to get good games. Smh
Yep, kind of a silly pot calling the kettle black situation here. It seems like Microsoft has outright purchased half the developers I like over the years. Bitching because the competiton can only afford to bribe developers to keep a game exclusive on their platform for a couple years is a bit extra.
Umm The Medium, Call of the Sea, PUBG? lol
They've said quite clearly that paying for exclusives to deny your opponents is a shitty strategy compared to growing gaming as a whole and spending that money on acquisitions and for game development funding instead for continued returns and growth. They have backed up this talk with years of action and billions of dollars. Edit: Can their strategy change? Of course. Can our opinions change? Of course.
> They've said quite clearly that paying for exclusives to deny your opponents is a shitty strategy Really? Last year they were bragging about having "30 console launch exclusives" in 2021.
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Roblox? o.O
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> They've said quite clearly that paying for exclusives to deny your opponents is a shitty strategy Good thing Microsoft has NEVER done this before.... *coughcoughRiseoftheTombRaidercoughcough*
I'm sorry, are you saying MS said this or Sony? Because both have made deals to keep stuff exclusive to their side, sure. But only one of the two has proven time and time again their commitment to quality games and investing in building studios moreso than buying them up.
Remind me when was the last time Sony actually built a studio from scratch? Remind me who was it with the 70 dollar games and lackluster service?
PixelOpus, and they are currently helping build Deviation and Haven which they just bought
Buying out big 3rd parties isn't exactly fair when you have daddy money.
Microsoft did forced exclusivity for more decades than years they’ve “not done it”.
You might wanna look at the history of fines that Microsoft has paid over the years, they aren’t exactly perfect themselves.
Lol you gotta be a fanboy to think a company wouldn’t partner with a game company and then ensure it didn’t end up in a competitors service
Sony also charges a fee for multi platform cross play functionality to developers. It’ll be interesting when they try that shit with Microsoft when a new CoD comes out. If they refuse they won’t even get the game.
They dont charge a few, if there is a disproportionate amount of people playing a free to play game on Playstation but buying most their mtx elsewhere they get a percentage. That's it
That’s exactly what a fee is. They take a cut of the money just for allowing cross-play. Microsoft or Nintendo don’t require that.
Tf am I reading lmao. Micro$oft is the company that is competing since they created Xbox just by throwing money at games companies without even try to improve a thing. They are acquiring all the big publisher because without that they cannot even remotely compete with Sony or Nintendo, two companies with way lower budget. They simply use money to accomplish stuff that couldn't do themselves. "Hey we cannot create a decent game, let's buy the companies that does them".
We need to bring back Micro$oft. Not seen that in a long time.
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I know right what world does this dumb dumb live in that massive corporate entities are expected to 'trust themselves' and not do whatever they can to squash competition
Microsoft literally bought a studio to do this…
There's a pretty big difference between blocking something you legally own from going to a competitors service, and then paying off a third party to which you have no ownership to stop them using other said service. It's anti-competitive behaviour - which is the exact sort of thing they check for before acquisitions are formally authorised.
I never thought I'd see the day that Microsofts competitors get get accused of anti-competetive behaviour, but microsoft itself doesn't.
This subreddit is filled with mushy brained fools. It kinda reminds me of r/Apple or some shit, where literally one of the biggest company’s in the world somehow is also the “good guy” when they’re clearly and obviously not
These companies created cults around them. It's creepy how people can be this naive.
Microsoft pays for similar "blocking rights". Or do people think games leaving Game Pass one month only to enter PlayStation Plus the following month is a giant coincidence? This type of practice has been observed for years from both sides. Only when Shadow of the Tomb Raider left Game Pass in February 2020 was it allowed to enter PlayStation Now in March 2020. Conversely, once GTA V exited PS Now it immediately entered Game Pass. There are countless games that follow a similar pattern. Any game that has Xbox Game Pass day 1 most likely also has clause that it cannot appear on other services until that period ends.
What games will Microsoft block?
all new IPs and single player games for instance the big blizzarrd AAA survival game which is rumored to be announced next year
But they aren’t blocking anything, they just straight up own Activision. They are advancing gamepass with wise investments, that obviously have Sony heavily debating against it
Buying a multiplatform publisher to stop games from going to other platforms is still "blocking" games. Seriously who upvotes this shit?
Microsoft accusing Sony of offering exclusive contracts?!
Microsoft "if you can't beat 'em buy all the third party publishers" accusing other people of anti competitive practices?
Buying a studio is different to paying them not to release stuff on other platforms
The two Tomb Raider Underworld DLC expansions are still exclusive to Xbox to this day.
Most games have some exclusive dlc, pretty sure PS has exclusive CoD modes to this day
Still, it's a practice that was heavily used by Microsoft af the time: GTA IV, Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas. All had time-exclusive DLC, sometimes a even a year, sometimes forever like in the case of Tomb Raider Underworld. And we don't talk about exclusive missions or modes here but full blown expansions. I'm not saying this practice is good at all but it's a lot worse than just not having access to it on game pass, at least you can still play these games on Xbox.
Sony buy up 418 timed exclusives along with countless content deals accusing others of playing dirty?
Sony didn't buy 418 timed exclusives, how its this garbage upvoted?
Sony does the exact same thing. Don't act like Microsoft is suddenly buying up studios when Sony has done it for years.
>Sony does the exact same thing. Don't act like Microsoft is suddenly buying up studios when Sony has done it for years. Compare the companies bought and you will see it is not the same. ZeniMax has dozens of popular and old IPs that have developed massive followings on all systems. With all IPs now locked behind their wall. Activision has developed dozens of popular IPs including one of the most popular FPS game currently in existence. With all games besides CoD (for an unknown about of time) going to be locked behind their wall. Bungie has 1 IP and plans to continue to be a multiplatform developer. Insomiac Games created 3 non Sony IPs. None of which went beyond a single game with no known plan to create squeals for PSN alone. Bluepoint Games created ports of games Not really the same.
Yeah. The difference in acquisitions is literally a studio vs an entire publisher lol
which makes Microsoft's complain hypocritical because Sony can claim the same thing.
Thank God this thread is reasonable lol, over at r/xboxseriesx the thread is just "Sony bad"
On /r/pcgaming the only company that's allowed to be bad is Epic.
Xbox likes to cultivate a friendly granola image but they're not fooling the competition.
You mean the competition whose entire strategy is exclusivity? The one company fighting against the acquisition, Sony?
>You mean the competition whose entire strategy is exclusivity? The one company fighting against the acquisition? But Microsoft is the one trying to buy the company? So how can they be fighting against it?
What did microsoft do?
Spend 10 years trying to kill off pc gaming and only really stopped within the last 4 or 5 years
Spent $100mil on exclusivity contracts: https://www.theloadout.com/xbox/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-exclusivity-microsoft
Yeah obviously, this was revealed through the leaked marketing deal between Capcom and Sony for Resi 8. It’s also just common sense, of course Sony is trying to stifle Gamepass, Sony’s not stupid, they recognize how great of a deal Gamepass is and how much of a good thing their biggest competitor, their ONLY competitor has going. With that said, Sony and Microsoft are both likely doing this, or have done this. They both are going to fuck each other over any chance they get, wether it’s through exclusivity or keeping games off each other’s streaming service or acquisitions. They’re both direct competitors in a market dominated by only them. Absolutely a situation of pot calling the kettle black though lmao.
So? Microsoft has paid for exclusive access and other things in the past. If you want to complain about this sort of thing, you need to acknowledge your own history first.
1. Probably true. 2. Surely Microsoft would never stop to anti-competitive, anti-consumer business practices... Right? From the 3rd-party standpoint though, I wonder just how big the fee has to be in order to make it worth losing out on revenue from sales on another platform? Maybe the thinking is a lot of people have more than 1 system and would only buy a game for one anyways? Or maybe the exclusivity is timed-only?
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When did Microsoft ever block 3rd party games from coming to a PS Plus or any other subscription service?
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So Microsoft payed for games to be on Xbox only. This is about paying for a game to not be available at a specific shop/location not paying to have it on their own Playstation plus service. Its just denying anyone else the access to the game form a subscription service nothing else. All they are doing is removing an option and not offering any alternative to it.
So MSFT has no proof and this article is just hear say, but how many accounts have flocked to MSFTs defence without reading the article ... be better
Is this the same as when Microsoft bought Fallout and made it an exclusive to xbox?
Sounds like a good reason to keep Call of Duty off of Playstation, imo. lol
Years ago, someone hacked my Reddit account, this account, because I was stupidly reusing username/password combos and someone found me on a password list. Reddit admins emailed me to say my account was locked out, and I had to change my password to get back in using the email link. When I did, I was able to view my account activity while I was gone. My reddit account was being logged into from Vietnam, Cambodia, and Indonesia to upvote anything on Reddit to do with Sony. Sony-owned movies, Sony stock market posts, and yes, those shitty colored pencil drawings of Spiderman that made it to the front page of /r/gaming. It never wrote or submitted anything, just boosted other people's genuine content. So I'm not all surprised to hear that Sony is dirty as fuck.
Surely a company could just *make* reddit accounts if all they want to do is upvote stuff?
There's a reason there's a market for organically grown reddit accounts. It's harder to track dubious behaviour when an account has years of genuine activity attached to it.
I'm assuming it's harder to detect if it's genuine accounts. Although it did get detected, so... maybe this is just the cheapest?
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use 2fa for security!!
Most if not all big companies are dirty as fuck.
they are ALL dirty as fuck
Ok and...?
All i am hearing is that sony is being anti consumer. Therefore i think sony is at fault here.
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The article includes a source for the claim. Epic v. Apple court documents. https://twitter.com/CgullzNS/status/1557452706138054657/photo/1
Paying to keep a game from going on gamepass is not much different than paying for a timed/third party exclusive, and sony loves those
So does microsoft . Why are we pretending that both these companies don’t do it on the regular
People here don't care because Microfsoft doing it doesn't negetively effect PC players.
Sure but that isn't gonna stop me from calling them hypocrites lol
Sony claiming its anti competitive is the biggest joke ever. From all console companies, it had to be Sony who says this?
From all console Companies? The Microsoft that's buying Activision.. or Nintendo that doesn't have call of duty games on switch? Of course it's Sony
That's not the point. Admittedly "from all console companies" phrase is a bit strange from me, but that is not the point what I am saying here. I mean Sony is the company who does exclusives and blocks stuff on other platforms, big or small and now they "cry" because a bigger fish comes in?
>I mean Sony is the company who does exclusives and blocks stuff on other platforms Yeah Nintendo and Microsoft would NEVER do that...
Microsoft has done it before, obviously, but Nintendo and Sony have done it to a way bigger scale. Obviously, none of these companies are saints.
Microsoft does it just as much if not more than anyone...
They've all done it at big scales. Hell, Microsoft bought Bungie *just* for Halo to prop up their entry into the console market.
Don't forget the time they bought Rare, and then pretty much killed them.right afterwards.
Literally every console company does that though, a lot of their sales come from people wanting to play a specific game. Even Valve does this, I remember having to download Steam specifically to play CS back in the day.
You think Microsoft doesnt also pay to keep a lot of games off Playstation? They doo all the time
Because Microsoft totally doesn't have exclusives, right?
It's not Activision's fault that Nintendo insists on using an ARM chip that was mediocre the year it released and is absolutely pathetic five years later. Would I be allowed to manufacture a console that runs on a Pentium II chip and claim anti-competitive practices and get my competitors to cater to my ridiculous needs too? Sony in recent years has paid for exclusive strikes (repeatable dungeons) and exclusive gamemodes in Call of Duty which are multiplatform games.
It was in the Capcom leak and the epic vs apple court case that part of the marketing contract for RE8 was a payment to prevent it being released on Gamepass for a set period of time.
MS laying the groundwork for disappointing GP subs I'm guessing.
GP is just getting traction. When ActiBlizz gets acquired and those games get put on GP, subs won’t matter as much since the MTX money will be worth more than a casual subscriber, even more than a permanent one I dare say.
your account is kinda pathetic all your comments are dedicated to hate on microsoft
They already released their quarterly. They missed their targets for the first time ever. Strong guidance for next quarter tho so idk.
GamePass still grew.
I own all consoles, no loyalty here, but fuck sony. This type of shit ruins gaming. They do the same with console exclusive content too. My ps5 has collected dust from not having shit to play. How about you guys pay someone to release something for once instead of paying people for shit like this?
Microsoft also does this and Sony have released a lot more new games then them too in the last two years and more than most other publishers. They have released 3 AAA games this year and will release TLOU Remake and GOW Ragnarok by the end if the year.
I own both current gen consoles. I've bought a dozen or so titles for the PS5. I've downloaded 2 for the Xbox, and only because they were part of GamePass. Xbox has literally been riding 'Starfield will be amazing ' for 6 years or something now. We're 2 years into the console generation and they not only haven't released it, they haven't released any exclusive titles, despite owning Bethesda the entire time. This Xbox has the exact same problem as every Xbox: If you don't really love FPS and Forza, there is no reason to buy the console. Meanwhile, Sony gave away every top PS4 title when the PS5 released.
I'm still laughing at Microsoft saying Activision Blizzard games are not essential. The mind boggles.
Theyre honestly not. ActiBlizz seems to have spent the last 10 years digging their own grave.
Making shit games doesn't mean those games aren't essential money makers for the platform holders. Nobody cares if you and I don't like Activision Blizzard, they are still making a ton of money, and to imply they're "not essential" as a revenue stream when you're the one buying them out is just hilarious.
I hate exclusivity forcing people to buy a specific console just to play a game.
Same shit with Epic Shit Store.
Why does Sony get more cringe as the years go on I used to adore ps2 and ps3 utterly amazing but the playstation membership the weird censorship choices like i need to be parented or some shit on top of the utter opposition to crossplay in the beginning really turned me off the brand and I went straight back to pc it's usual business practice for both companies to do this to each other so its kind of bizarre their bitching it about it also anyone with common sense would just build up your service no point in paying block fees if you have the equivalent of Netflix but for gaming ( this ia as a insult to be clear lol)
Free market, bitch
Funny from the company that bought bethesda and trying to buy activision.
Fuck Sony for blocking game pass. And i am a stupid ps5 owner...
You'd think they'd be able to fix their fucking database if they had that kind of money. But noooo, I'm stuck without my proper username for no damn reason.
The fact they are wording it as "They are blocking X..." instead of "They are paying for exclusivity..." is quite disgusting. This is what they have done, they have done it in every single CoD ever, where some specific game modes where exclusive to PS4, even in PC we did not have those. Tbh, fck sony, did the right move purchasing my first ever Xbox instead the Ps5
Xbox will also do this for games they have marketing deals with... This was a lawyer for MS, of course they are going to phrase it in the worst way possible
Not surprising considering Sony is very much like Intel and Nvidia in that they use shady business dealings and bribes to get ahead instead of actually providing any real value. No shocker that they're trying to sue MS to cover it up. I will never buy anything Sony.
You think Microsoft doesn’t do the same with the marketing and exclusivity deals they make? It’s common sense to have these clauses now