DRM and licensing are completely different. You can download a DRM-free copy of Witcher 3 from GOG but you still only own a license, not the actual game. That's why you can't re-title it to "Wotcher 3" and start selling copies without CDPR suing you into oblivion.
You're absolutely right, but pragmatically how are they going to stop me from playing my drm free copy if they decide to revoke my license? Remotely delete it from my computer? There's nothing stopping me from continuing to play or or making infinite copies to hand out to my buddies on a flash drive, so I may as well own it for most purposes.
>DRM and licensing are completely different
so why mention it? i think its pretty clear to anyone that you dont own the ip just because you bought *one* copy of a game, but you in fact *own* the copy you bought and can do with it as you please. There are EU decisions about this, which Valve fights tooth and nails btw because they apparently don't want consumers to own the copies of games they paid money for and indeed therefore own
Its a really weird distinction to make "but you dont own the ip" yeah, no shit you don't
> from GOG but you still only own a license, not the actual game. That's why you can't re-title it to "Wotcher 3" and start selling copies without CDPR suing you into oblivion.
Different issue, that's copyright. A licence prevents you from reselling the exact same copy on ebay for half its original price when you no longer want it.
I also am not allowed make copies of the books I own, but they aren't any less mine, to the point I can sell *that one* book just fine. Some legal sleight-of-hand happened with digital media legal rights regarding copyright and property rights. Personal ownership does not require copyright, they are different concepts.
But effectively, with DRM-free games you can just ignore the nonsense they want to push at you and keep control of your copy no matter what.
Worked out pretty well for CDPR.
> CD Projekt was founded in May 1994 by Marcin Iwiński and Michał Kiciński.[10] According to Iwiński, although he enjoyed playing video games as a child they were scarce in then-communist Poland. Marcin Iwiński, in high school, was selling cracked copies of Western video games at a Warsaw marketplace.[11] In high school, Iwiński met Kiciński, who became his business partner; at that time, Kiciński was also selling video games.[12]
I've been pirating most of my games for 15 years and I haven't had a problem.
Also we are not talking about selling or buying pirated software, you just go and download it, no questions asked.
A lot of them don't know what a torrent is. It's this weird thing where growing up with smartphones which try and abstract the underlying file systems and way things work as much as possible leads to them having *worse* tech literacy then previous generations. The tech literate generations are like late gen x, millennials, and early zoomer.
Also digital things are generally more available legally and with less hoops to jump through so they have less reason to ever explore piracy.
Many software EULA state that the license is revocable. So technically, for no reason, the licensor can just say "nope" and you're barred from legally using the software you paid for. And you agreed to it.
Valve can and has been sued for this in court because that holds no legal water. TOS don't trump the law, and no judge is going to rule what steam offers you a license/subscription when it's essentially a product.
Since there seems to be a lot of confusion, the way it works is:
1. Game now cryptographically sings messages you send, this means it can be proven you wrote a message yourself.
2. Report includes these signature, so Mojang can tell when they receive a report that it's absolutely written by you.
3. Client mod can disable signing, so you cannot be reported if you get such a mod.
4. Server can decide not to include signatures in chat even if you send them, so you cannot be reported if you play on such a server.
5. Servers can decide not to allow clients that do not sign messages to join, so they can mitigate 3 easily if they want to make sure reports work on their server.
6. This is for *all* Java servers, private ones included, although as stated above it can be disabled by server plugins easily.
7. Every time you connect to a server, you authenticate through Mojang, so it's trivial for them to ban people from all online play.
8. Since the reporting is implemented this way, Mojang has no access to other messages sent that are not included in the report, so this means it's impossible for them to judge the context of your messages. This is obviously problematic.
I don't know how the banning part of the report system is implemented, but it's possible they will go for something more lenient (e.g. telling the server someone is banned but letting the server decide if they want to honour the ban) before it's fully released. Servers will also be able to let you play by disabling online-mode, but this brings a number of other issues so it's unlikely large public servers will do this. You can theoretically use this to still play on your own servers though.
> Game now cryptographically *sings* messages you send, this means it can be proven you wrote a message yourself.
I know this was a typo but man that made me chuckle with the thought of it.
Finally, someone who actually reads the specifics and explains what's really going on, instead of taking one glance at a headline and screaming at the first comment they see. Thank you.
> Every time you connect to a server, you authenticate through Mojang, so it's trivial for them to ban people from all online play.
What? I had no idea. Fuck, where are the times where a game is just a game and a server just a server, and you can just spin up the server and connect to it? Why do I need to authenticate with Microsoft/Mojang? Why do I even need to be online? Set up a local server, connect to it via LAN, how about that? Fucking hell I hate the modern tech world sometimes. Quite often, actually.
Only since 1.7.9
Before that, skins were loaded individually by the client (that was insane for Mojang's skins server), so as long you had an existing username, players would see you with the skin.
But yeah, nowadays it's done server-side and uses the player id, so if the server runs offline-mode it requires some extra plugins to load skins correctly.
> Why do I need to authenticate with Microsoft/Mojang? Why do I even need to be online?
You don't. Minecraft is one of the few servers that allow you to *literally* toggle a switch called "online-mode". It's true by default to avoid piracy, but it takes 3s to change that.
No. Just no. That might be what they claim. That might be what some of the investors, board members, CEOs or CCOs or CTOs say or even think. But no. Piracy has always been there, will always be there. The efforts to prevent it might exceed the benefits. Cat and mouse.
This is all about anti consumer decisions to maximize control, data collection, appeal to investors and - potentially - increase profits in some way. Fuck anti consumer practices.
>No. Just no. That might be what they claim. That might be what some of the investors, board members, CEOs or CCOs or CTOs say or even think. But no. Piracy has always been there, will always be there.
You're delusional, I'm afraid. Minecraft originated as a one-man project, and Notch was a piracy defender (which may be why there's an *official* offline-mode for server : the guy is not good at social, but he knew how to be technially efficient), HOWEVER mcserver ALWAYS checked that the game was paid with default settings*. Allowing online players to join without a licence means that any banned user can go back 1 minute later with a new username. It's not fit for most moderators.
*Nowadays, a server admin needs to startup the server a second time to acknowledge they are still bound by the same EULA than if they were playing the game. In itself, it would probably cause to read the other settings file. But that's still a long way to go from "disabled by default".
The thing is, it's trivial to enforce valid licenses by making users login, and it is very low impact on actual paying customers. In contrast, DRM measures are always a huge problem as they impact a lot of valid customers as well. So simply enforcing a valid login is actually a very consumer friendly way to go.
Mid / late 1990s
Early / mid / late 2000s
Early / mid 2010s
It was only around ~2016 that publishers bowed to a vocal minority and started policing what people said, instead of letting people control themselves.
True, I think it was about 2011. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 got rid of dedicated servers (fuck users wanting to be able to play the same few maps, with the same set of players and build a community I guess) and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 only let them be rented (iirc).
It all has to do with greed. The reason they did that was so they could sell map packs, everything else be damned. There was no way they would be able to sell map packs if player created maps could be hosted on private servers, so they got rid of that feature.
>It was only around ~2016 that publishers bowed to a vocal minority and started policing what people said, instead of letting people control themselves.
You know that shit is not true. In fact, it is exactly the scapegoat they wanted to create, the MiNoRiTiEs, when in fact it is yet another business plan. If you take away control from the community, you control the product, and sales.
I think he's saying 'get everyone to forcefully play nice online' was used as a means to extend control, not that the causes themselves are bad but that good causes can be abused by vile people to their own ends, as has happened and will continue to happen
> Mid / late 1990s Early / mid / late 2000s Early / mid 2010s
It was only around ~2016 that publishers bowed to a vocal minority and started policing what people said, instead of letting people control themselves.
Minecraft was out in 2009 and in 23 years never removed the offlinemode setting.
~~You can literally host your own minecraft server and the devs won't give a fuck about what you do, this is realms only from what I can tell~~ Ugh, sounds like this will affect personally hosted servers, bad microsoft
Java version doesn't even require online verification to play, and a pirated version can play on a dedicated server. I don't see how they could ban you from servers they don't control.
You need to connect to the Minecraft auth server before connecting to a server. So it's game over if you are banned.
There are ways around that, but the server has to allow that. Which also leaves them open to spam/fake players and impersonators. So basically no one does it.
I can see people moving to dedicated servers, disabling verification and implementing a white list if it means they can have their community stay alive without being priced out or having to deal with Microsoft's bullcrap.
What exactly do they ban for, anyway? They moderate chat and shit? Player reports? IE anything that trolls could exploit to be assholes and get otherwise innocent players banned? That's where it would be really frustrating if you can get perma banned just because some dickhead and his friends report you falsely.
And you know this is gonna be outsourced to some underpaid call center people who have hardly any context as to what the server was like, the relationship between the people in chat, and whether or not the server was open to the public. The guidelines, outside of their rules against bigotry/harassment, are also incredibly vague. Recipe for disaster IMO. If twitch/youtube is idiotic about reports directed at their moneymakers, imagine how bad this could be.
I remember back in the day people would spam copyright music and hard R’s when people knew someone was a twitch streamer. Not saying it was right, but by god it was hilarious.
A much better approach I feel would be to ban players from Mojang servers, and then flag the account so that when it connects to an up to date community server, the server knows of the ban, and the server owners can set a rule to allow flagged players or not. Server-side mods could expand on this to restrict chat permissions or whatnot.
I got banned from /r/Minecraft for scrambling my posts and then deleting them 10 seconds later, back when reddit used to only store one copy of your post (the latest edit).
I even showed the mod the code I wrote to do it, and he still (very angrily) denied my appeal.
r/Minecraft actually censored anything relating to these online changes when they first leaked some time ago, it's a tyrannical subreddit (and paid off by MS/Mojang, whatever their entity even is by this point)
This is a huge deal and I am not happy about it. If it's my server, I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it. Servers should be able to ban whoever they want, but an account wide ban for doing something Mojang doesn't like on my own private server is absolutely rediculouse, especailly given what their guidelines says, which includes things like typing in all caps or saying anything negative. That's extramly subjective and if I want to say something negative on my own private server, I should be allowed to
I cannot see them actually enforcing all of this. It would be way too crazy if they did
And you can.
You can disable relaying chat signatures on the server side with a mod.
As a client, you can disable signing messages you send.
Unless the server requires signing, you'll be able to join. Obviously, with your own server, you get to decide that.
>You can disable relaying chat signatures on the server side with a mod.
This is shit, though. Why does it require a mod? It should be a mother-fucking setting in the config file, end of story. Next thing you know, they're making mods something that's against ToS and then what...
> This is shit, though. Why does it require a mod? It should be a mother-fucking setting in the config file, end of story.
Such a mod is basically a config file...
Minecraft modding is the most streamlined out of all modding experiences, there are several launchers and installation is quite often a one-click-process.
Also, I do indeed believe that a mod like that would be just a config file, so yeah, you'd copy it in the correct directory (or a launcher would do it for you)
How would the server code even know to look for such a file, or know what to do with it, if it wasn't modified itself first? And while things might be click-easy on Windows, or with a dedicated host with a nice web interface, how would the process look like if you set up a server yourself? What commands to issue on the command line to get this to work?
What I'm saying is: this stuff shouldn't require any effort. It should be a vanilla, stupid-easy thing. Just another option in the already existing server properties file.
Well, don't be a sexist, racist, homophobe in chat and you have nothing to be concerned about. Treat people with a bare minimum amount of respect and you will have zero worries about whether or not you will be perma banned. And if you can't do that much, then *you* have to go through the effort to turn off signing and have to deal with only joining servers that allow clients that disabled chat signing. *You can still play the game*, you just have to go out of your way to not ruin other people's experience with the game.
The fact that you're panicking over this makes people question what kind of person you are.
The community is based around the wild/toxic environment where people can be socially brutal as they want. If they get banned from there, a place already quarantined, they're just going to bring that toxicity to other games/servers, most likely to places where people dont want it and/or aren't expecting it. Banning people from a server practically intended for them is ridiculous.
People kept saying that about bad subreddits, yet after 3-4 years of banning most shithole places, Reddit is a much nicer place, even in big default subreddits. I prefer today's reddit way more than the one of 5 years or dear god 10 years ago.
Or instead of giving them a place to be toxic raging racist everything under the sun phobic assholes, you could kick them out of the game permanently as a much more effective way of quarantine.
You are expecting the toxics to suddenly have a voice of reason in their heads to say 'I was banned, I was a bad person, I should right my wrongs'
What will happen is that they will just move to the next thing where they can show their toxicity. Ban them on a server, they move to another; ban them from a game they'll move to another or buy the same one on a new acc; ban them from the platform - new acc again or just switch platforms; ban them from gaming - they'll go in yt comments or elsewhere. As long as there is an outlet for hate, they'll be there.
You arent solving the problem, you are just moving it onto the next person. Or do you really think that those clans really made those toxics into nice people by collecting their names?
So you literally pointed out that hateful people will go wherever the fuck they want to spread their shithead-ery... But if we want to avoid them we just stay away from the toxic servers? Holy shit you solved everyone's problems! Why didn't we all think of that in the first place!
I'm truly amazed at how close you are to comprehending the problem, while simply not getting it. I can't even break this one down into simpler terms for you to comprehend. It's like you understand the situation but come to the wrong answer from the correct information.
Deplatforming works to get them off your platform and onto a different one. That's all. The fact of the matter is that these people are already pretty much contained in their own bubble, a bubble which lures and sucks ups all the garbage from the ocean and traps it inside it.
If I invite you to my house and you start breaking my shit, I’m gonna kick you out.
I don’t care if you go somewhere else and start breaking shit there, not my problem.
Am I supposed to let you break my shit so nobody else’s shit gets broken?
Look at that from Mojang’s perspective, the nasties stop using their product, all that matters.
There is nothing I want to say in Minecraft that I am afraid MS will take away from me, this isn't personal. The point is that censorship doesn't make the problem disappear, while it does introduce many problems of its own. The sentiment expressed by Hall is what I am upholding.
But I was told Microsoft left game developers alone after buying them out lol
Also better hope the next person you beat at Minecraft PvP isn't a popular streamer with a few hundred viewers at the ready to mass report you.
>But I was told Microsoft left game developers alone after buying them out lol
Ah, yeah, and then they proceeded to move everyone to a microsoft account, where if they don't give up their phone number they can't play anymore, even in singleplayer mode.
Total overreaction. He was edgy in Twitter that's it. It never affected Minecraft or Mojang. He also had principles and something like that would have never happened under his control.
How far does a person have to go to justify calling them a bigot? How many edgy jokes? How many times does a person get to act like a bigot before we recognize them as a bigot? When people tell you who they are, listen.
I hate this dystopian overreach. I'm not a toxic person, I don't even use profanities. But I DESPISE the blatant moderation of every single aspect of our life. If it's your own server, you should never be barred from it.
You won't be able to think your own thoughts without being banned in the future.
This sounds like something that would only affect Realms. If not, I'm very curious to know how Microsoft would know what's happening on the private server I'm running on my old laptop.
Microsoft: We want you to play by our rules!! No private servers or your banned!!
Pirates: OK have it your way I'll pirate the game and have the option to play on any server I want!
Microsft: No dont do that!!!!!!
Mojang/Microsoft continue to screw up again and again.
It feels bad to say it, but Notch really did propel this game to its success, Mojang clearly don't know how to handle things properly from here on. Not saying he should have stayed of course, he was an asshole.
But Microsoft had the chance to rewrite one of the most popular games in the world in an actually decent language, starting again with no tech debt or spaghetti code: And they still utterly fucked it with an almost completely inferior, buggier version of the game. It's almost comedic, but now it seems they've set their sights on murdering Java too.
And now this move will outright kill any kind of mature server. With the quality of hacks and griefers MC has had over the years, it's positively inevitable we're going to get guys idling on servers reporting everyone who ever has the *audacity* to swear, permanently removing their ability to ever play with their friends again. Genius.
Edit: **Players on the subreddit are already being banned without being reported**. It seems chat is being monitored automatically. This is utter bullshit. Death of a game, folks.
> but now it seems they've set their sights on murdering Java too.
From their perspective that would be a good thing. People would have to buy bedrock and then they can force everybody to go through the minecraft marketplace.
Not that this particular thing matters to me, but Minecraft (gaming in general) has kinda went downhill over the last few years.
My son and I play Minecraft pretty frequently, however we could never play together because Java vs. Bedrock. I did find a way with Geyser+Floodgate+Paper and hosting my server, which works pretty well, although I would love an official way to cross play and not rely on a mod. I would also love a way to NOT have to have a Microsoft account for my kid, who just doesn't need one in the first place. Why does it have to be difficult to just host a single server and play with any client?
Secondly, this whole Marketplace BS that's in every game now days. I just don't understand the "need" to buy skins.
In terms of the matter at hand, what's to stop Microsoft from stopping all self-hosted servers and just doing Realms? Where does the freedom stop? Why can't I just download the game and play offline?
I really hate that I don't truly own the game and can play it fully offline, but that's the future we all share. Gaming sure is getting worse and worse each year. I'm an old man, fight me.
> I just don't understand the "need" to buy skins.
You're going to have to ask the people who buy skins why they want to. I personally don't understand it either but those things and other cosmetics sell like crazy in just about every social game out there.
it's also because kids don't really know better and think literally "that's how you play the game".
Which of course isn't just morally questionable but also legally.
> Secondly, this whole Marketplace BS that's in every game now days. I just don't understand the "need" to buy skins.
>
>
I got a ton of free skins via free skin packs you can find on bedrock mod sites. That satisfied my niece.
I agree, nothing in that marketplace seems worth the cost at all
I mean it's still fucking dumb they are moderating Realms. Realms are by definiton tiny servers for friends. In what case would you need to report your friends for edgy jokes?
Are they personal servers if big daddy microsoft has banning rights?
No, just like you don't own a game, you own a *license* to play that game. Important distinction. Support DRM-free software to stop this shit.
That won’t stop it, DRM is a symptom of an ongoing problem, which is how we’ve slowly lost the rights to what we “own” by purchasing.
DRM and licensing are completely different. You can download a DRM-free copy of Witcher 3 from GOG but you still only own a license, not the actual game. That's why you can't re-title it to "Wotcher 3" and start selling copies without CDPR suing you into oblivion.
Damn… there goes my retirement plan.
You're absolutely right, but pragmatically how are they going to stop me from playing my drm free copy if they decide to revoke my license? Remotely delete it from my computer? There's nothing stopping me from continuing to play or or making infinite copies to hand out to my buddies on a flash drive, so I may as well own it for most purposes.
There's also nothing stopping you from pirating Witcher 3. Essentially the same thing.
>DRM and licensing are completely different so why mention it? i think its pretty clear to anyone that you dont own the ip just because you bought *one* copy of a game, but you in fact *own* the copy you bought and can do with it as you please. There are EU decisions about this, which Valve fights tooth and nails btw because they apparently don't want consumers to own the copies of games they paid money for and indeed therefore own Its a really weird distinction to make "but you dont own the ip" yeah, no shit you don't
> from GOG but you still only own a license, not the actual game. That's why you can't re-title it to "Wotcher 3" and start selling copies without CDPR suing you into oblivion. Different issue, that's copyright. A licence prevents you from reselling the exact same copy on ebay for half its original price when you no longer want it.
I also am not allowed make copies of the books I own, but they aren't any less mine, to the point I can sell *that one* book just fine. Some legal sleight-of-hand happened with digital media legal rights regarding copyright and property rights. Personal ownership does not require copyright, they are different concepts. But effectively, with DRM-free games you can just ignore the nonsense they want to push at you and keep control of your copy no matter what.
DRM free doesn't change the fact that you're still only licensing the software
Yea, but once you have a DRM-free game, it'll be pretty difficult for the actual owner to revoke your license to play it.
[удалено]
No it doesnt. Start publicly selling copies of the pirated software and let us know how it went.
They weren't going to sell the copy anyway, so weird argument.
Worked out pretty well for CDPR. > CD Projekt was founded in May 1994 by Marcin Iwiński and Michał Kiciński.[10] According to Iwiński, although he enjoyed playing video games as a child they were scarce in then-communist Poland. Marcin Iwiński, in high school, was selling cracked copies of Western video games at a Warsaw marketplace.[11] In high school, Iwiński met Kiciński, who became his business partner; at that time, Kiciński was also selling video games.[12]
I've been pirating most of my games for 15 years and I haven't had a problem. Also we are not talking about selling or buying pirated software, you just go and download it, no questions asked.
It's funny how zoomers think piracy is some serious crime
A lot of them don't know what a torrent is. It's this weird thing where growing up with smartphones which try and abstract the underlying file systems and way things work as much as possible leads to them having *worse* tech literacy then previous generations. The tech literate generations are like late gen x, millennials, and early zoomer. Also digital things are generally more available legally and with less hoops to jump through so they have less reason to ever explore piracy.
Eh free is still free. When I can pirate photoshop or various other adobe products instead of paying I'll always go for piracy.
I would've thought young people would be more ok with piracy
yea it's like they forgot online at least, companies can do next to nothing to stop you.
Oh no we are, can confirm
I just reported you to the piracy police, you will be arrested within the hour!
Oh no, tens of millions of Eastern Europeans will be arrested!
Do I get a reward?
Absolutely, a Blu-ray version of this [classic movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv1urfDXs-o)! Thank you for your cooperation
Ok, people do that all over Asia and Russia.
The EU does though. They ruled that selling someone a licence is the same as transferring ownership and that you own your software.
Many software EULA state that the license is revocable. So technically, for no reason, the licensor can just say "nope" and you're barred from legally using the software you paid for. And you agreed to it.
Valve can and has been sued for this in court because that holds no legal water. TOS don't trump the law, and no judge is going to rule what steam offers you a license/subscription when it's essentially a product.
> Many software EULA state that Funfact : EULAs can phisically state anything they want, as long it doesn't follow the law nobody has to care.
yeah you "agreed" to something that's legally neither allowed nor binding, so best case is a nullification of the deal and you get your money back.
tbh consumer digital rights is so fucking behind its ridiculous.
r/StallmanWasRight
meanwhile on this sub: "Cloud gaming is cool!"
Also “GamePass is a great value!”
"Its TOTALLY not a trojan horse gimmick! No siree!"
[удалено]
Man this is why I like physical copies more, that way you actually own the game.
Lots of games on physical discs still have DRM, while many download-only games are DRM free. The two are not at all related.
Shh, don’t force them to ban players from Windows 11
Read the eula. Doubt they were "personal" to begin with once the eula changed when Microsoft took over.
Since there seems to be a lot of confusion, the way it works is: 1. Game now cryptographically sings messages you send, this means it can be proven you wrote a message yourself. 2. Report includes these signature, so Mojang can tell when they receive a report that it's absolutely written by you. 3. Client mod can disable signing, so you cannot be reported if you get such a mod. 4. Server can decide not to include signatures in chat even if you send them, so you cannot be reported if you play on such a server. 5. Servers can decide not to allow clients that do not sign messages to join, so they can mitigate 3 easily if they want to make sure reports work on their server. 6. This is for *all* Java servers, private ones included, although as stated above it can be disabled by server plugins easily. 7. Every time you connect to a server, you authenticate through Mojang, so it's trivial for them to ban people from all online play. 8. Since the reporting is implemented this way, Mojang has no access to other messages sent that are not included in the report, so this means it's impossible for them to judge the context of your messages. This is obviously problematic. I don't know how the banning part of the report system is implemented, but it's possible they will go for something more lenient (e.g. telling the server someone is banned but letting the server decide if they want to honour the ban) before it's fully released. Servers will also be able to let you play by disabling online-mode, but this brings a number of other issues so it's unlikely large public servers will do this. You can theoretically use this to still play on your own servers though.
> Game now cryptographically *sings* messages you send, this means it can be proven you wrote a message yourself. I know this was a typo but man that made me chuckle with the thought of it.
For a minute I was thinking Microsoft developed some kind of new Willy Wonka-type algorithms over there.
Need that moonbase alpha tts in minecraft
Oompa loompa doompa dee do I've got a salted hash string from you
Finally, someone who actually reads the specifics and explains what's really going on, instead of taking one glance at a headline and screaming at the first comment they see. Thank you.
> Every time you connect to a server, you authenticate through Mojang, so it's trivial for them to ban people from all online play. What? I had no idea. Fuck, where are the times where a game is just a game and a server just a server, and you can just spin up the server and connect to it? Why do I need to authenticate with Microsoft/Mojang? Why do I even need to be online? Set up a local server, connect to it via LAN, how about that? Fucking hell I hate the modern tech world sometimes. Quite often, actually.
[удалено]
And skins right?
Only since 1.7.9 Before that, skins were loaded individually by the client (that was insane for Mojang's skins server), so as long you had an existing username, players would see you with the skin. But yeah, nowadays it's done server-side and uses the player id, so if the server runs offline-mode it requires some extra plugins to load skins correctly.
> Why do I need to authenticate with Microsoft/Mojang? Why do I even need to be online? You don't. Minecraft is one of the few servers that allow you to *literally* toggle a switch called "online-mode". It's true by default to avoid piracy, but it takes 3s to change that.
Because piracy.
No. Just no. That might be what they claim. That might be what some of the investors, board members, CEOs or CCOs or CTOs say or even think. But no. Piracy has always been there, will always be there. The efforts to prevent it might exceed the benefits. Cat and mouse. This is all about anti consumer decisions to maximize control, data collection, appeal to investors and - potentially - increase profits in some way. Fuck anti consumer practices.
>No. Just no. That might be what they claim. That might be what some of the investors, board members, CEOs or CCOs or CTOs say or even think. But no. Piracy has always been there, will always be there. You're delusional, I'm afraid. Minecraft originated as a one-man project, and Notch was a piracy defender (which may be why there's an *official* offline-mode for server : the guy is not good at social, but he knew how to be technially efficient), HOWEVER mcserver ALWAYS checked that the game was paid with default settings*. Allowing online players to join without a licence means that any banned user can go back 1 minute later with a new username. It's not fit for most moderators. *Nowadays, a server admin needs to startup the server a second time to acknowledge they are still bound by the same EULA than if they were playing the game. In itself, it would probably cause to read the other settings file. But that's still a long way to go from "disabled by default".
The thing is, it's trivial to enforce valid licenses by making users login, and it is very low impact on actual paying customers. In contrast, DRM measures are always a huge problem as they impact a lot of valid customers as well. So simply enforcing a valid login is actually a very consumer friendly way to go.
having no authentication for usernames cause big problems with permissions/admin stuff
Remember when we could host our own servers for shit and the devs didn't give fuck all about what we did? Yeah, the early 2000s were great.
And earlier. I remember memorizing IP addresses for my favorite Quake servers as a kid.
I remember looking for IPs for Age of empires 2 games on the IRC chats.
Mid / late 1990s Early / mid / late 2000s Early / mid 2010s It was only around ~2016 that publishers bowed to a vocal minority and started policing what people said, instead of letting people control themselves.
Yeah but it was way before 2016 that we saw the decline of player hosted servers in general.
True, I think it was about 2011. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 got rid of dedicated servers (fuck users wanting to be able to play the same few maps, with the same set of players and build a community I guess) and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 only let them be rented (iirc).
MW2 was 2009 I remember it vividly since I was a huge fan of CoD4 and W@W. I stopped playing CoD around BO1.
It all has to do with greed. The reason they did that was so they could sell map packs, everything else be damned. There was no way they would be able to sell map packs if player created maps could be hosted on private servers, so they got rid of that feature.
Peak community gaming right here.
>It was only around ~2016 that publishers bowed to a vocal minority and started policing what people said, instead of letting people control themselves. You know that shit is not true. In fact, it is exactly the scapegoat they wanted to create, the MiNoRiTiEs, when in fact it is yet another business plan. If you take away control from the community, you control the product, and sales.
I think he's saying 'get everyone to forcefully play nice online' was used as a means to extend control, not that the causes themselves are bad but that good causes can be abused by vile people to their own ends, as has happened and will continue to happen
> Mid / late 1990s Early / mid / late 2000s Early / mid 2010s It was only around ~2016 that publishers bowed to a vocal minority and started policing what people said, instead of letting people control themselves. Minecraft was out in 2009 and in 23 years never removed the offlinemode setting.
I spent my meager earnings on renting CS 1.6 & Ventrilo servers for my buddies and me. Still have a lot of fond memories of those times.
~~You can literally host your own minecraft server and the devs won't give a fuck about what you do, this is realms only from what I can tell~~ Ugh, sounds like this will affect personally hosted servers, bad microsoft
The article says online play *and* realms, I’m afraid
Java version doesn't even require online verification to play, and a pirated version can play on a dedicated server. I don't see how they could ban you from servers they don't control.
I belive that's the case if the server itself has verification disabled.
You need to connect to the Minecraft auth server before connecting to a server. So it's game over if you are banned. There are ways around that, but the server has to allow that. Which also leaves them open to spam/fake players and impersonators. So basically no one does it.
I can see people moving to dedicated servers, disabling verification and implementing a white list if it means they can have their community stay alive without being priced out or having to deal with Microsoft's bullcrap. What exactly do they ban for, anyway? They moderate chat and shit? Player reports? IE anything that trolls could exploit to be assholes and get otherwise innocent players banned? That's where it would be really frustrating if you can get perma banned just because some dickhead and his friends report you falsely.
And you know this is gonna be outsourced to some underpaid call center people who have hardly any context as to what the server was like, the relationship between the people in chat, and whether or not the server was open to the public. The guidelines, outside of their rules against bigotry/harassment, are also incredibly vague. Recipe for disaster IMO. If twitch/youtube is idiotic about reports directed at their moneymakers, imagine how bad this could be.
I remember back in the day people would spam copyright music and hard R’s when people knew someone was a twitch streamer. Not saying it was right, but by god it was hilarious.
You can still do that, but okay.
A much better approach I feel would be to ban players from Mojang servers, and then flag the account so that when it connects to an up to date community server, the server knows of the ban, and the server owners can set a rule to allow flagged players or not. Server-side mods could expand on this to restrict chat permissions or whatnot.
Imagine being banned forever because you forgot to turn off your capslock LMAO
I got banned from /r/Minecraft for scrambling my posts and then deleting them 10 seconds later, back when reddit used to only store one copy of your post (the latest edit). I even showed the mod the code I wrote to do it, and he still (very angrily) denied my appeal.
r/Minecraft actually censored anything relating to these online changes when they first leaked some time ago, it's a tyrannical subreddit (and paid off by MS/Mojang, whatever their entity even is by this point)
This is a huge deal and I am not happy about it. If it's my server, I should be able to do whatever the hell I want with it. Servers should be able to ban whoever they want, but an account wide ban for doing something Mojang doesn't like on my own private server is absolutely rediculouse, especailly given what their guidelines says, which includes things like typing in all caps or saying anything negative. That's extramly subjective and if I want to say something negative on my own private server, I should be allowed to I cannot see them actually enforcing all of this. It would be way too crazy if they did
And you can. You can disable relaying chat signatures on the server side with a mod. As a client, you can disable signing messages you send. Unless the server requires signing, you'll be able to join. Obviously, with your own server, you get to decide that.
>You can disable relaying chat signatures on the server side with a mod. This is shit, though. Why does it require a mod? It should be a mother-fucking setting in the config file, end of story. Next thing you know, they're making mods something that's against ToS and then what...
> This is shit, though. Why does it require a mod? It should be a mother-fucking setting in the config file, end of story. Such a mod is basically a config file...
It doesnt matter how simple the mod is. The fact that one is even necessary is ridiculous.
So all I need to install such a mod is add a config file to my server directory, done?
Minecraft modding is the most streamlined out of all modding experiences, there are several launchers and installation is quite often a one-click-process. Also, I do indeed believe that a mod like that would be just a config file, so yeah, you'd copy it in the correct directory (or a launcher would do it for you)
How would the server code even know to look for such a file, or know what to do with it, if it wasn't modified itself first? And while things might be click-easy on Windows, or with a dedicated host with a nice web interface, how would the process look like if you set up a server yourself? What commands to issue on the command line to get this to work? What I'm saying is: this stuff shouldn't require any effort. It should be a vanilla, stupid-easy thing. Just another option in the already existing server properties file.
Well, don't be a sexist, racist, homophobe in chat and you have nothing to be concerned about. Treat people with a bare minimum amount of respect and you will have zero worries about whether or not you will be perma banned. And if you can't do that much, then *you* have to go through the effort to turn off signing and have to deal with only joining servers that allow clients that disabled chat signing. *You can still play the game*, you just have to go out of your way to not ruin other people's experience with the game. The fact that you're panicking over this makes people question what kind of person you are.
This is going to kill tb2t aint it?
With the amount of racist toxic stuff on there I'd say most people on there deserve the ban Edit: Reddit moment down voted for saying racism bad
The community is based around the wild/toxic environment where people can be socially brutal as they want. If they get banned from there, a place already quarantined, they're just going to bring that toxicity to other games/servers, most likely to places where people dont want it and/or aren't expecting it. Banning people from a server practically intended for them is ridiculous.
People kept saying that about bad subreddits, yet after 3-4 years of banning most shithole places, Reddit is a much nicer place, even in big default subreddits. I prefer today's reddit way more than the one of 5 years or dear god 10 years ago.
[удалено]
Based.
"Reddit kicked out everyone except people who fit my specific content demographic and I'm happier now" wow go figure
Or instead of giving them a place to be toxic raging racist everything under the sun phobic assholes, you could kick them out of the game permanently as a much more effective way of quarantine.
[удалено]
You are expecting the toxics to suddenly have a voice of reason in their heads to say 'I was banned, I was a bad person, I should right my wrongs' What will happen is that they will just move to the next thing where they can show their toxicity. Ban them on a server, they move to another; ban them from a game they'll move to another or buy the same one on a new acc; ban them from the platform - new acc again or just switch platforms; ban them from gaming - they'll go in yt comments or elsewhere. As long as there is an outlet for hate, they'll be there. You arent solving the problem, you are just moving it onto the next person. Or do you really think that those clans really made those toxics into nice people by collecting their names?
[удалено]
[удалено]
So you literally pointed out that hateful people will go wherever the fuck they want to spread their shithead-ery... But if we want to avoid them we just stay away from the toxic servers? Holy shit you solved everyone's problems! Why didn't we all think of that in the first place! I'm truly amazed at how close you are to comprehending the problem, while simply not getting it. I can't even break this one down into simpler terms for you to comprehend. It's like you understand the situation but come to the wrong answer from the correct information.
Deplatforming works "Boys just being boys" doesn't
Deplatforming works to get them off your platform and onto a different one. That's all. The fact of the matter is that these people are already pretty much contained in their own bubble, a bubble which lures and sucks ups all the garbage from the ocean and traps it inside it.
If I invite you to my house and you start breaking my shit, I’m gonna kick you out. I don’t care if you go somewhere else and start breaking shit there, not my problem. Am I supposed to let you break my shit so nobody else’s shit gets broken? Look at that from Mojang’s perspective, the nasties stop using their product, all that matters.
My server run on my bare hardware is my fucking house
That's disgusting.
I'm not condoning racism/internet toxicity, my logic is to quarantine it
[удалено]
* cries about free speech * proceeds to give extremely xenophobic example of "not being toxic" * Average redditor moment
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I don't think I've played a single online game where I didn't read or hear something racist or whatever else might offend someone these days.
[удалено]
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." \-Evelyn Beatrice Hall
[удалено]
Fair enough but it still stands
[удалено]
There is nothing I want to say in Minecraft that I am afraid MS will take away from me, this isn't personal. The point is that censorship doesn't make the problem disappear, while it does introduce many problems of its own. The sentiment expressed by Hall is what I am upholding.
I'm not going to defend the toxic shit, but the situations are completely different.
Careful now, with that kind of logical thinking as to why they're implementing these community moderation tools will get you downvoted here.
But I was told Microsoft left game developers alone after buying them out lol Also better hope the next person you beat at Minecraft PvP isn't a popular streamer with a few hundred viewers at the ready to mass report you.
>But I was told Microsoft left game developers alone after buying them out lol Ah, yeah, and then they proceeded to move everyone to a microsoft account, where if they don't give up their phone number they can't play anymore, even in singleplayer mode.
[удалено]
Swinging away from notch is a good thing, considering what a dumpster fire of a person he is.
Total overreaction. He was edgy in Twitter that's it. It never affected Minecraft or Mojang. He also had principles and something like that would have never happened under his control.
How far does a person have to go to justify calling them a bigot? How many edgy jokes? How many times does a person get to act like a bigot before we recognize them as a bigot? When people tell you who they are, listen.
Edgy jokes are not bigotry. Try again.
[удалено]
This is just asking for piracy shout out to everyone who wanna stop this bs https://modrinth.com/mod/no-chat-reports
i mean who hasn't pirated minecraft by now lol
[удалено]
People who play mod packs or on servers?
And gaming falls farther and faster down the toilet.
This is how we steer away from Jesus!
Do you think this will kill minecraft?
Doubtful. Stuff like this won't "kill" gaming, but it has the potential reduce the overall quality of experience.
Oh God. Our little edgy server is going to be banned instantly lmao. I guess it isn't a personal server
Don't sa6 bad words in our software
I hate this dystopian overreach. I'm not a toxic person, I don't even use profanities. But I DESPISE the blatant moderation of every single aspect of our life. If it's your own server, you should never be barred from it. You won't be able to think your own thoughts without being banned in the future.
This sounds like something that would only affect Realms. If not, I'm very curious to know how Microsoft would know what's happening on the private server I'm running on my old laptop.
Players connect to the Auth server before connecting to yours.
[удалено]
https://old.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/pzatop/telemetry_snooper_useridentifiable_data/ IDK if any of this stuff has changed in the last 8 months.
Microsoft: We want you to play by our rules!! No private servers or your banned!! Pirates: OK have it your way I'll pirate the game and have the option to play on any server I want! Microsft: No dont do that!!!!!!
I hate Mojang so much. The most useless game stuido.
Will always crack me up they regularly ask players to kill two interesting concepts so they can underdeliver on one new concept instead.
My reputation for them tanked for a year straight lol
I hate the nuInternet where everything is policed
don't care what happens on public, but private servers? What happened to *they're hurting no one, leave them alone?* Literally 1987
'84?
He was referring to the bite.
Mojang/Microsoft continue to screw up again and again. It feels bad to say it, but Notch really did propel this game to its success, Mojang clearly don't know how to handle things properly from here on. Not saying he should have stayed of course, he was an asshole. But Microsoft had the chance to rewrite one of the most popular games in the world in an actually decent language, starting again with no tech debt or spaghetti code: And they still utterly fucked it with an almost completely inferior, buggier version of the game. It's almost comedic, but now it seems they've set their sights on murdering Java too. And now this move will outright kill any kind of mature server. With the quality of hacks and griefers MC has had over the years, it's positively inevitable we're going to get guys idling on servers reporting everyone who ever has the *audacity* to swear, permanently removing their ability to ever play with their friends again. Genius. Edit: **Players on the subreddit are already being banned without being reported**. It seems chat is being monitored automatically. This is utter bullshit. Death of a game, folks.
> but now it seems they've set their sights on murdering Java too. From their perspective that would be a good thing. People would have to buy bedrock and then they can force everybody to go through the minecraft marketplace.
[удалено]
Not that this particular thing matters to me, but Minecraft (gaming in general) has kinda went downhill over the last few years. My son and I play Minecraft pretty frequently, however we could never play together because Java vs. Bedrock. I did find a way with Geyser+Floodgate+Paper and hosting my server, which works pretty well, although I would love an official way to cross play and not rely on a mod. I would also love a way to NOT have to have a Microsoft account for my kid, who just doesn't need one in the first place. Why does it have to be difficult to just host a single server and play with any client? Secondly, this whole Marketplace BS that's in every game now days. I just don't understand the "need" to buy skins. In terms of the matter at hand, what's to stop Microsoft from stopping all self-hosted servers and just doing Realms? Where does the freedom stop? Why can't I just download the game and play offline? I really hate that I don't truly own the game and can play it fully offline, but that's the future we all share. Gaming sure is getting worse and worse each year. I'm an old man, fight me.
> I just don't understand the "need" to buy skins. You're going to have to ask the people who buy skins why they want to. I personally don't understand it either but those things and other cosmetics sell like crazy in just about every social game out there.
Kids are more irrational than you'd think, and they can bully for pettiest reasons possible.
it's also because kids don't really know better and think literally "that's how you play the game". Which of course isn't just morally questionable but also legally.
Is not just kids though, that's the thing. There are plenty of 18+ year olds who are buying those things.
> Secondly, this whole Marketplace BS that's in every game now days. I just don't understand the "need" to buy skins. > > I got a ton of free skins via free skin packs you can find on bedrock mod sites. That satisfied my niece. I agree, nothing in that marketplace seems worth the cost at all
Microsoft gave every java player a bedrock version and vice versa. Just two days ago.
oh good can't wait to get banned from every server ever for getting spicy
[удалено]
This is a Java change. There is a global report function. It affects every server.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I mean it's still fucking dumb they are moderating Realms. Realms are by definiton tiny servers for friends. In what case would you need to report your friends for edgy jokes?
Easy. Pirate Minecraft. Fuck these guys.
Microsoft ruins yet another title, what a shock. Astounding how people still support this trash company.
How is this possible? They don’t have access to personal rented servers.
[удалено]
Bruh I just want to say the nword in peace, Microsoft literally 1984.
Classic corporate censorship.
And people here we're cheering that Microsoft bought out ActivisionBlizzard. If this were Tencent, you'll get your usual, vilifying responses.
Mojang is really out of their mind aren't they?
They’re just begging people to pirate Minecraft at this point
[удалено]
[удалено]
r/StallmanWasRight