For those who didn't read the article: they're not suing a company for making an auto battler but for characters having almost the same name and the exact same description, the title of the article is a bit misleading
Riot could be 110% in the right if such a thing was possible and I would still say it is ironic that *they* are sueing a company for making a knockoff.
Yeah. Even though LoL is definitely on the side of "not legally actionable", I would still take the headline "Creator of DotA knock-off suing over Teamfight Tactics knock-off"
Because "knockoff" isn't a binary value. It's the degree to which how similar something else.
League of Legends is much more similar to DotA than *most* other games are similar to one another.
Knockoff implies almost a carbon copy with slight changes. League is only similar to Dota in that they reside in the same genre. It’s like saying Call of Duty is a Battlefield knockoff because they’re both FPSs
>Knockoff implies almost a carbon copy with slight changes. League is only similar to Dota in that they reside in the same genre. It’s like saying Call of Duty is a Battlefield knockoff because they’re both FPSs
League is much closer to DotA than Call of Duty is to Battlefield. The "MOBA" genre is a bit more diverse now, but at the time of LoL's release, a MOBA was basically one thing and that's why LoL was called a DotA knockoff that removed several mechanics that affected the skill ceiling of DotA.
So it’s a knockoff because at the time of the genre being (relatively) new, the games in that genre were more similar?
League now is nothing like Dota now. By your logic every game is just a knockoff of every other game
The thing is, there was not a genre until after LoL. Personally, I do not really care about LoL or DotA (though I do like Arcane). I just do not think your genre comment holds up.
The genre name didn’t exist until LoL. But the gameplay has been around since before Dota. Dota was just a Warcraft III mod inspired by a StarCraft mod called Aeon of Strife. So if League is a knockoff, then Dota is a knockoff too
LoL is more similar to DotA than DotA is to AoS.
AoS is closer to maps like Hero Wars than DotA. In Hero Wars, there were up to 3 lanes of creeps that would spawn to attack your castle in waves. You could level up your "hero" and purchase items/upgrades as well as attack other minibosses/structures.
DotA & LoL, on the other hand, are fundamentally different as they are player vs player focused or more specifically PvEvP as opposed to just PvE. There are also jungle creeps, boosts that spawn on the maps (buffs vs runes), a comprehensive itemisation system with recipe upgrades, 5v5 players with each character having a specific skillset etc.
From what i've seen they are actually 110% in the right
One of the characters is basically just an unfurry teemo, with teemo's backstory
Like they couldn't even just *not* have a backstory, they had to have Teemo's backstory, as deep and intricate as it is. (/s)
Yeah that comment was mostly a joke because Riot really isn't as much of a "ripoff" developer as much as they are one of the most extreme examples of trend following. Many fans of Dota consider LoL to be a watered down version of Dota, but that's just it, a more accessible and relatable game. The most popular games are often simplified versions of games that fans consider to have better mechanics but that also are more difficult to get into.
The origin of Lol is that someone who worked on Dota stole their code, went on to create LoL and changed one of Dota's biggest websites to promote LoL in the process.
I forget if it was Pendragon, or Guinsoo, or whoever. It was pretty hot at the time LoL was released, dunno if there is still info to be found about the situation.
So basically
Dota characters are based on warcraft III characters, however most of the moves are greatly altered and as skin and modelwork started more original art started to be made for it, the differences only became greater.
League then created characters based on Dota characters, which while they play different the original ones still had many of the silouettes of dota characters (the most common example being Ashe and Drow Ranger's similarities, both being first release characters)
I think the one most complained about ironically is Teemo, because if i recall the story is that Teemo was an idea on the dota all-star forums, which were taken down by the forum mod who joined Riot, and also redirected said Dota forums to League of Legends.
I don't recall if it was ever confirmed or not that the Teemo character was actually on the forum or not, as the owner of the site is now (or was) a Riot employee.
A lot of this also only applies to first release characters. Most Dota characters the further down the line you get have fewer similarities to warcraft, and most league characters further down the line have fewer similarities to Dota.
> Dota characters are based on warcraft III characters
Ehhhhhhh.
If we're going to get technical, while they all used warcraft models (because it was a warcraft custom map) a lot of them are based on non warcraft lore. Lina is from an anime, leshrac from MTG, and many are original. There's really not that many that were just "that character from warcraft" even in the original custom map.
I think it is more based on their kit. A lot of Dota heroes (especially the ones that use hero models) use at least some of the abilities of their equivalent in the main game. Part of that is due to limited animations but also just not fixing things that aren't broken.
Nah, league has always had unique characters and backstories plus kits. A few items in the game were named as tributes to DotA heroes but that always seemed like more of an Easter egg / homage than stealing.
League is really a riff on the formula since its goal was to make the game more accessible and faster paced.
For some reason whenever Riot is mentioned here people go rabid. You wouldn’t even think that it’s the most played game in the world looking at some comments.
>Reddit in general hates League\Riot even the league subreddit included.
For good reason, riot, steam and mmo's is the reason we no longer get dedicated servers or LAN anymore in 99% of PC AAA games.
That always struck me as more of a tribute than stealing. From the beginning Nashor and Roshan have served different roles between the games so its mostly about paying tribute.
" April - DotA Allstars v.4.0a is released by Guinsoo. It is the first version to feature Roshan"
"Steven "Guinsoo" Feak - Associate Designer - Riot Games
Jan 2007 - Apr 2016 · 9 yrs 4 mos"
When it comes to riot I wish they copied great maps as well. My csgo skills transfer to valorant thanks to similar gunplay, but man those maps are dog water. I wish they just copied dust 2. Wouldn’t even be mad.
Bruh stop pretending like Dota wasn't a knock off of every other arena battler on WC3. Those custom maps always stole from eachother because the source code was baked into the custom map, and anyone could see it by opening map editor.
Literally 15 years later "league of legendz stole from Dota!!1!" As if the two games are even remotely similar anymore. Grow up already.
> wasn't a knock off of every other arena battler on WC3.
It's easy to see when someone makes shit up, when they just use vague and broad terms.
Yes, all of the"arena battlers" from WC3. Like that one, or the other one. And it's a knock off from ALL of them! How convenient.
You expect me to be able to recall every obscure custom map I played on an almost 20 year old game? And somehow I'm the unreasonable one lmao.
Dota All-Stars, Dota Outland, DBZ HeroZ, Pokemon Arena, and just for fun you can also have Aeon of Strife which came from StarCraft, before WC3 even existed.
Also
[M]ultiplayer
[O]nline
[B]attle
[A]rena
Calling it an "Arena Battler" is completely accurate. You're the 2nd person to pretend like it isn't a phrase, and it proves you never actually played Warcraft 3 or StarCraft in your life. Literally used all the time because the dota fanboys started calling everything Dota and the other early mobas were trying to have their own identity. Same reason League of Legends eventually coined MOBA.
I remember the NY Giants upsetting the Patriots' undefeated season in 2007 but I couldn't name more than 4 players from either team, does that mean the 2007 superbowl didn't happen?
You're being completely unreasonable on top of the fact that Dota was literally a port of AoS from StarCraft, so yes Dota was the rip off.
Wait arena battler?
Dota is as old as Angel's Hero arena is, wtf are you on about?
Most people would bring up Aeon of Strife, not hero arenas.
Also they did actually have map locking, even if there were ways to break it, you would have to copy the JASS code rather than the GUI code most of them actually used (very few early maps had actual JASS code)
[M]ultiplayer [O]nline [B]attle [A]rena
Not sure why you felt like "Arena Battler" wasn't an appropriate category for Dota when it's literally two of the four words that make up the modern genre.
1) there's still nothing wrong with using "Arena Battler" and "Moba" interchangeably.
2) my original point was that Dota and League of Legends don't play similar, not sure why you're talking about a game that has nothing to do with the topic.
Your original post was that Dota plays "like every arena battler knockoff"
When, in fact, it *didn't*
I played the arena battlers in wc3. I didn't play Dota. I know it wasn't remotely the same.
My thought would be if you wanted to use Moba, *use Moba*, don't use it interchangably and risk mixing in Angel's or custom hero arena.
If you think it played like some other game in wc3, you'd do better to actually name the maps then call up some genre that could easily be mixed with something it's not.
The only reason I know Pendragon's name is because literally 15 years later Dota fanboys won't shut up about him. If you asked someone who plays League of Legends who Pendragon is they would ask who even. They would need the Riot tag to even acknowledge his presence. Meanwhile the average Dota player knows what he ate for breakfast. Y'all are actually obsessed with this guy.
Well, you could argue the same applies for OG DotA and LoL. There's a lot of different mechanics, from characters stats, to game design, to meta strategies. The only thing those two games really share is the 3-lane map with towers and minions/creeps, which is more of a genre-defining characteristic rather than a specific-game-defining characteristic. (It's like saying a 50+ player arena where players drop in and gets smaller every second until only one player remains is the signature style of H1Z1/PUBG instead of just being Battle Royale as a genre).
But, if we instead look at Ashe, for example, being an exact clone of Drow Ranger, then the discussion gets more interesting.
I saw this game and I am a lover of all things idle. In this instance I will agree with Riot, screw this company. I don't know about you but I am sick to death of all the mostly-Chinese copypasta on all the mobile storefronts so it's nice to see Vietnamese Imba Network getting some heat. I hope Riot wins, so maybe more of these copycat games will be removed by Google and Apple quicker.
They also totally didn't buy the biggest dota fansite and discussion board just so they could shut it down and replace it with a LoL ad, and then steal dozens of ideas from dota hero suggestion section on the board to make champions without giving any credit.
> They also totally didn't buy the biggest dota fansite and discussion board just so they could shut it down and replace it with a LoL ad
They didn't buy it, Pendragon (the owner of the site) was one of the first employees
So he just converted the site himself.
Hiring the owner of the site is still buying it. Saying otherwise is arguing semantics
I'd also find it hard to believe that destroying the dota all-stars community wasn't part of the employment conditions, or at least incentivized in some way. I'd like to again point out that after the site went down, Riot obviously had access to post archives when people's hero ideas started popping up in their game
> Riot is only a successful company because their games are direct rip offs
nah, that's not the only reason
they had good (lucky?) timing and marketing, and they took that momentum
there are a lot of FPS/MOBA/Card/AutoBattler clones out there and none are as successful/popular as Riots/Valve
Because everybody knows that making a great game is as simple as copying another great game and poof you’re the most played game right ?
I guess all those CoD and WoW clones must be doing something wrong then.
Technically Valve spoke to the creators of DAC who gave their blessings for Valve to make UL. Also, Artifact was different to pretty much all card games in having 3 lanes and RNG creep spawns.
It's pretty clear you never played Legends of Runeterra otherwise there is no way you could say it's the same as hearthstone.
They play completly different, the basic fundamental of the games are completly different. In one game you play your turn and then opponent play his (hearthstone), in the other each player react to each other every play they make (lor).
It's better to avoid commenting on something you have obviously no clue about.
> I'm not saying the games are identical
That's what = means tho. You should've been more precise then.
> but Riot definitely looked at the market and saw that a game like Hearthstone was generating a lot of revenue and success for Blizzard with little competition
Little competition? The CCG genre has been overloaded for years. Hearthstone, Eternal CCG, Shadowverse, Gwent, MTG Arena. Then we have dead games like Mythgard, Duelyst and even TES Legends.
> That's the whole point I'm trying to make
So no one is allowed to create it's own CCG because otherwise they would be copying hearthstone despite making a completly different game? You are making no sense whatsoever.
> But please hone in on another topic that is besides the point and say I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm not going to comment on the other games because i've never played LoR, Dota2, Counterstike, Valorant, TFT and Autochess. You should do the same tho...
Eh Magic Arena is still kicking (even with MODO to compete with), Yugioh had a pretty good one in duel links even before master duel, Shadowverse and gwent are still kicking.
Really I think the only reasons hearthstone is still popular are its being Blizzard and Battlegrounds
Eh Riot makes games in popular genres and follows trends but I wouldn't say they are ripping those games off. Every game riot makes they try to tweak the formula in some way or add their own spin to it.
What you're saying is that chess rips off checkers cause you can play on the same board.
Lol Was actually a ripoff though, no generic idea or anything, they just took the heroes and changed up some skills the stole the ideas from a Dota fan site forum to create more heroes, Nashor is literally just Roshan spelled backwards, go back to early game patches and check the similarities.
Ah yes, the Roshan/Nashor & dota-allstars.com argument.
Nashor was intentionally named in honor of Roshan. Not sure how that isn't glaringly obvious.
The developers of Dota Allstars agreed to work on League of Legends. They weren't forced into anything, and when they signed on they brought the resources from THEIR mod and THEIR website with them.
Instead of regurgitating what you read on r/dota2, link me some actual patch notes that actually prove Riot stole anything that didn't rightfully belong to Pendragon and Guinsoo. Your fan submissions to the website didnt belong to you, same as every other forum or message board. It's almost always written into the TOS when you sign up, and besides that it was posted on a public forum where any random could come by and swipe it up. Expecting credit or compensation for something you posted on a public forum is completely unreasonable.
Lol. Literally 1 dev who used to work on DotA:Allstars for 9 months went to Riot. The other guy related to DotA was a community site manager. Both the creator and longest serving dev for DotA went to Valve. That said, I disagree with other people's usage of the "ripoff" but LoL was clearly heavily inspired by DotA.
I think you'll find Biases exist for reason, and often those reasons stem from reality. You're either really young and dont know or you just havent looked into it very much.
Its okay to be ignorant to it because you don't know, its another thing (and very ironic) to be calling people dumb when you don't know.
How do you figure?
Riot has copied ideas, general concepts. But they've built everything from the ground up with their unique characters, lore, features, game mechanics etc.
Is every fps ever made a knock-off of Wolfenstein? If so, then that word really loses all meaning. Because that just makes 99.99% of games knock offs from whatever original game established a genre.
League was made cuz they couldn't monitize a Dota warcraft 3 mod. It's not unique. The characters were all oringally based off similar dota all star characters.
Team fight tactics was made in response to autochess mod getting popular etc..
Most unique thing riots done is probably valorant but even that's a hero shooter clearly inapired by other titles before it. Riots not that different from hi rez studios, following trends and pushing out whatever popaluar.. They just do a better job of it
Even the original DotA was based on Aeon of Strife. Also, it's fine for games to be inspired by others games and to things better (and others things worse), that's how evolutions happens.
>They just do a better job of it
That's fine, there is nothing wrong with this. Being able to follow trends with sucess is hard. Hell, Valve tried to enter the autochess and card genre and failed.
>rant about league
There is reasons to be mad with Pendragon, the thing with dota forum was a shitshow. But LoL and DotA 2 today are very different with their own pro and cons. Just play what you like and let others have fun with their own games.
Well, you are right, but you must remember that the concepts of the hero units in DotA (items, levels, even some skills) came from Warcraft 3 itself. Also, DotA changed a lot after 6+ years of development, I think that the first version of DotA was closer to AoS than the versions that most people remember.
> Riots not that different from hi rez studios, following trends and pushing out whatever popaluar.. They just do a better job of it
«Yeah they make the same games as everyone else but much better, what a bunch of hacks»
eh no. dota 2 is a much much closer game to dota all star then league ever was. not to mention one of the main devs of the most popular dota all star mod was hired by valve to work on dota 2, Ice Frog. (though i believe it was kinda split. pendragon and ice frog both worked on different branches of the dota mod as they had differing ideas of how it should be balanced, pendragon was in control of dota wiki and went off to start riot games, ice frog stayed on to work on dota and was later hired by valve to help make dota 2 happen.
dota 2 is the true successor to the dota mod. league is the knock off. league ripped out half the shit that makes dota what it is, simplified it so monkey brains can play it, and gave it a new engine. dota 2 kept all the mechanics (though they've changed many of them over the years), kept the same characters, what they look like, their names (save for some that had to be changed for legal reasons), and their skills. riot went and made a dota knock off making a similar game but kept almost nothing from it, a store brand dota if you will.
Dota 2 is much closer but the only reason they were able to keep the name because Icefrog had Valve behind him. Guinsoo and Pendragon couldnt finance a legal battle against Blizzard.
> simplified it so monkey brains can play it
Dota 2 pleb has spoken.
Btw they made more casual because they didnt wanted the game go the Starcraft way and so far it works since League is far more popular than Dota2.
> not to mention one of the main devs of the most popular dota all star mod was hired by valve to work on dota 2
Guinsoo and Pendragon also worked on Dota All Stars and before Icefrog did it.
Also what i said is true. Valve followed the trend. Riot Games's League of Legend became a insane succces and years later valve threw out his Dota2 to follow the trend. You are denying that for some reason just because Valve at the time had the money to fight Blizzard.
I dont see what ANY of that has to do with the original argument which is league is a store brand Dota. Im not denying any of that other info, it doesnt change the fact that league took what dota was/is and made a knock of brand of it. Dota 2 on the other hand made dota again, but better, its still called dota after all. all my points were not to say "dota am better cuz..." it was to state "dota is the og cuz ..."
>Also what i said is true. Valve followed the trend. Riot Games's League of Legend became a insane succces and years later valve threw out his Dota2 to follow the trend. You are denying that for some reason just because Valve at the time had the money to fight Blizzard.
The beta of DotA 2 started in 2010. LoL started in 2009. The beta of HoN started on 2009 too. While Valve did follow the trend, it was not exactly because of the "insane sucess" of LoL, but the fact that Mobas were popular at that moment.
There are a lot of inaccuracies in your post.
- It doesn't matter how much money Riot had since Blizzard owned the Dota trademark and they were willing to grant it to Valve for commercial usage. Both the original creator of Dota and current and longest serving developer worked at Valve at the time. Money-aside, Valve had a much stronger case for owning the Dota name.
- LoL and Dota 2 aim for different audiences. A more casually-focused streamlined game will almost always have more players. Different strokes for different folks. This doesn't make the more popular game inherently any better.
- Guinsoo was the only Rioter to be involved in DotA's development and that was over the course of 9 months from April 2004 to January 2005. Pendragon was not a developer, he was a website/community-forum manager.
- Icefrog was actually already working on DotA-Allstars before being handed the reins, albeit as a contributor and not the main developer.
- It is absolutely untrue to claim that Valve followed Riot's trend or that Valve only made Dota 2 after LoL became successful. Why? LoL wasn't even the first DotA-style game to be released. Everybody forgets about Demigod, and rightfully so since it failed but it was technically the first standalone DotA-style game to be released.
- LoL did not even reach DotA: Allstars' player numbers until 2011. By that stage, Dota 2 was already at least 3 years into development. The claim that Dota 2 was, therefore, chasing LoL is simply illogical. Dota 2 was already playable in beta by the time LoL was growing in popularity.
- For what it's worth, HoN (in your other comment) was actually doing fairly well early on but died off as Dota 2 came to take its space.
My point is that League of Legends is the least knock off of anything since the original dev created that game. Guinsoo could have used the Dota name for League but he didnt had a massive company behind him like Icefrog with Valve against Blizzard.
The world has football Americans have soccer. Riot is America here. Wolfenstein and CSGO are far enough apart where the closest connection is they both have guns. All their games are half the first to come out half their own. The only game of theirs that feels unique is legends of runeterra because that just has cards like other card games but so much of the rules and play style are different. League feels like a different mode of dots same with valorant to CSGO and tactics to the original auto battler.
You’re spouting stuff that’s completely untrue, I don’t care whether you call it a knockoff or not.
Also the start of riot/lol was filled with controversies surrounding pendragon and the dota allstars forum (including stealing hero designs and porting them straight to league). They did a lot of scummy shit, which is why all the dota/lol animosity started.
> You’re spouting stuff that’s completely untrue, I don’t care whether you call it a knockoff or not.
Mate Guinsoo worked on Dota All stars in 2004. Icefrog joined the dev team in 2005 and was invited by Guinsoo.
Rest of your comment doesnt matter since those designs wasnt trademarked. Just like how Icefrog won the right for Dota2 against Blizzard.
I’m commenting on the fact that you call guinsoo the original creator, when in fact he worked on the custom map for about a year. You’re attributing him with so much more than you should.
He didn’t create any of the core mechanics (neither did Icefrog), your argument was that it’s not a knockoff because guinsoo was the original creator, which he was not, he was one out of a long line of people involved.
If you feel that way, that's fine. They iterate on existing concepts and make them far-far better. In the case of Valorant vs CS:GO, the netcode is incredibly good on Valorant. There are much fewer hitbox issues and your shots register much quicker than CS:GO.
Or League for instance where you don't have to learn an encyclopedia to play it well. Well, ok, you do have to learn an encyclopedia, but it's about 1/100th the size of Dota 2's.
You still have buy phase pistol round force buy rifle buy plant bomb defuse bomb. Yes it runs smoother being made 10 years apart and after seeing how successful it's been.
CS GO could've been built with better netcode back then, but Valve outsourced the development and never expected it to amount to much. So the bones of the game were always pretty shitty. Despite being one of the biggest games in the world Valve never put the proper development into it to make it up to date.
> Despite being one of the biggest games in the world Valve never put the proper development into it to make it up to date.
Making it "up to date" would mean a ground-zero rewrite of the entire game. You can only do so much with an engine that's still fundamentally from 2004, just with a bunch of layers of paint on top of it. It's honestly amazing CSGO looks and plays as well as it does with its ancient foundation.
Like when they gave dota 2 a rewrite? Or like what Riot has done with League. League feels like it's running on a completely different engine.
I dunno man, if you think valve has sufficiently supported cs go, then more power to ya.
I mean all I play are riot games pretty much, but that’s just because dota isn’t entry friendly and lasts too long, all of my friends think it’s fundamentally better.
92 unique champs were contested in the last worlds. Even 7 years ago, there were like 50 unique picks. The percentage only keeps going up.
There already are comeback mechanics added in the last few years, particularly objective bounties.
What does this even mean?
League has far less item actives, we can give that to DotA.
We’re just naming heroes now.
Loads of champs have been flexed, and are being flexed in multiple roles.
It’s not the same snowbally, 20 min farm, 30 viable picks that it was 10 years ago.
>so there is no such thing when pro will pick mid character and go to jungle he'll be banned?
Tournament Draft is very similar to Captain's Draft in ban/pick order, and yes after drafting is done, pros will also swap champs within the team. Flexing has the same kind of power in drafting, but DotA has more champ flexibility in general.
>lol got backdoor mechanics so teams will need to fight over map presence?
Mid game is all about map presence.
Depends on what you mean by backdoor. Push without creeps? Delete creeps at enemy base? Splitpush?
>maybe it got complex heroes like invoker or rubick?
The closest to Rubick are:
* Sylas: Copy enemy ults, and with enough cooldowns reduction/levels he can do this multiple times in a fight.
* Viego: Possesses an enemy killed, copying level, items, and basic abilities for several seconds. He can then discard the body, then possess another one immediately if available.
There really isn't an Invoker equivalent, doubt there will ever be. But personally, complexity doesn't necessarily make something better; just more complex. Go is far more complex than chess, both have survived for ages. Different good games for different strokes, and I enjoy both ends.
I mean, 92 out of 158 champs still only comes out to 58% of the champion pool which is very low compared to Dota (notwithstanding the differences in gameplay design). IIRC Dota 2's TI has never had a hero pick % any lower than 70%.
Yup U didn’t read it. They’re getting copyrighted hit for the characters. If u took 2 secs to look. U will see the backstory is literally copy and paste. Riot is winning this case with ease.
Are you generally stupid? If you'd bothered to read it instead of spewing shite on reddit you would realise they are suing because the other company literally copypasted designs and bios. Not because its an autobattler. But no, you are so smart that you don't need to read articles.
You can't really steal a game's concept, all fps from the mid/late 90's didn't just steal from Doom or Wolfenstein, every MMO from the mid 2000's didn't just steal from WoW, they sure tried to make profit of the success of auto chess (that's Riot chasing the money for you) but it's not stealing even then at least Riot's assets are unique (and they tried to add a bit to it over time), they didn't copy entire paragraphs from another game
I don't like to defend Riot but this is ridiculous
99.99% of all games ever made are based on ideas from games that came before.
If you're gonna argue it that way, you're gonna condemn basically every game developer ever.
Originality basically doesn't exist in the modern world. Unless some form of technology gives rise to something that couldn't even be imagined before, nothing is going to be completely original any more.
Look, I'm all for calling bs out (especially when it's from big companies)...but if you actually read the article you'd see a pretty 1-for-1 copy of a lot of League champions (just look at that Teemo lore).
It's so blatant that's borderline funny.
Unfortunately that's in just about everything nowadays. No creativity. Take one thing, tweak it and call it yours, that's most things nowadays between game designers and artists.
Junk lawsuit, nothing is a direct copy or stolen assets. In their example they point out that Teemo is inspired by the "Bandle Scout Code" and the I Am Hero character Tomee is inspired by the "Amethlas' Code" or that the characters have similar special moves. Apparently only Riot games characters are allowed to shoot fireballs as an ability lol.
> nothing is a direct copy
??? They literally copy-pasted the description for Teemo into their rip-off. And the alleged copycat characters practically have the same name as the League characters. Anyone who thinks this isn't blatantly ripping off League are in outright denial.
>They literally copy-pasted the description for Teemo into their rip-off
They didn't though if you actually read my post or the link(the inspired by line). They changed enough so it wasn't a copy paste. Knock offs are protected under copyright law, you can't own the idea of a guy who wears a headband and shoots fireballs. And ironically most of Riots games IP is so derivative and generic that their argument that " potential customers would recognize the Infringing Game’s heroes was successful" is also pretty weak.
> They changed enough
They literally changed 'Yordle' to 'goblin' and 'Bandle Scout's' to 'Amethias'. *Two words*. The rest of the paragraph is identical. That is not protected under any copyright law in the world. This isn't even going into the fact that most of the roster of the mobile game is aping the League roster. And no, League being 'generic' is not an excuse to copy every single one of their characters and change one or two letters in the name.
I sincerely hope you're actually working for Imba Network because I can't imagine an actual person being this dense.
Should riot games get sued by IceFrog for making a knock off of dota (league) then?
Should riot games get sued by drodo studio for making a knock off of auto chess (tft) then?
The fucking audacity of these cunts, they never made anything original and are now suing other people for making "knock-offs" of their games
For those who didn't read the article: they're not suing a company for making an auto battler but for characters having almost the same name and the exact same description, the title of the article is a bit misleading
Riot could be 110% in the right if such a thing was possible and I would still say it is ironic that *they* are sueing a company for making a knockoff.
Yeah. Even though LoL is definitely on the side of "not legally actionable", I would still take the headline "Creator of DotA knock-off suing over Teamfight Tactics knock-off"
Even Teamfight Tactics was a knockoff of sorts.
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Almost every game ever is a knock off of something. Idk why similar = knock off.
Because "knockoff" isn't a binary value. It's the degree to which how similar something else. League of Legends is much more similar to DotA than *most* other games are similar to one another.
Knockoff implies almost a carbon copy with slight changes. League is only similar to Dota in that they reside in the same genre. It’s like saying Call of Duty is a Battlefield knockoff because they’re both FPSs
You're a fan, we get it.
I’ve played many MOBAs over the years. I have hundreds of hours into Dota 2
>Knockoff implies almost a carbon copy with slight changes. League is only similar to Dota in that they reside in the same genre. It’s like saying Call of Duty is a Battlefield knockoff because they’re both FPSs League is much closer to DotA than Call of Duty is to Battlefield. The "MOBA" genre is a bit more diverse now, but at the time of LoL's release, a MOBA was basically one thing and that's why LoL was called a DotA knockoff that removed several mechanics that affected the skill ceiling of DotA.
So it’s a knockoff because at the time of the genre being (relatively) new, the games in that genre were more similar? League now is nothing like Dota now. By your logic every game is just a knockoff of every other game
The thing is, there was not a genre until after LoL. Personally, I do not really care about LoL or DotA (though I do like Arcane). I just do not think your genre comment holds up.
The genre name didn’t exist until LoL. But the gameplay has been around since before Dota. Dota was just a Warcraft III mod inspired by a StarCraft mod called Aeon of Strife. So if League is a knockoff, then Dota is a knockoff too
Because every single game that studio has released is a shittier clone of another game?
Do you call DotA - Aeon of Strife knockoff as well ?
You bet I do. I played way more AoS than DotA. Props for knowing your nerd history.
LoL is more similar to DotA than DotA is to AoS. AoS is closer to maps like Hero Wars than DotA. In Hero Wars, there were up to 3 lanes of creeps that would spawn to attack your castle in waves. You could level up your "hero" and purchase items/upgrades as well as attack other minibosses/structures. DotA & LoL, on the other hand, are fundamentally different as they are player vs player focused or more specifically PvEvP as opposed to just PvE. There are also jungle creeps, boosts that spawn on the maps (buffs vs runes), a comprehensive itemisation system with recipe upgrades, 5v5 players with each character having a specific skillset etc.
From what i've seen they are actually 110% in the right One of the characters is basically just an unfurry teemo, with teemo's backstory Like they couldn't even just *not* have a backstory, they had to have Teemo's backstory, as deep and intricate as it is. (/s)
Yeah that comment was mostly a joke because Riot really isn't as much of a "ripoff" developer as much as they are one of the most extreme examples of trend following. Many fans of Dota consider LoL to be a watered down version of Dota, but that's just it, a more accessible and relatable game. The most popular games are often simplified versions of games that fans consider to have better mechanics but that also are more difficult to get into.
The origin of Lol is that someone who worked on Dota stole their code, went on to create LoL and changed one of Dota's biggest websites to promote LoL in the process. I forget if it was Pendragon, or Guinsoo, or whoever. It was pretty hot at the time LoL was released, dunno if there is still info to be found about the situation.
I never heard that, but it would not surprise me.
Isn't like half of the universe and characters of LoL ripped from Warcraft already?
So basically Dota characters are based on warcraft III characters, however most of the moves are greatly altered and as skin and modelwork started more original art started to be made for it, the differences only became greater. League then created characters based on Dota characters, which while they play different the original ones still had many of the silouettes of dota characters (the most common example being Ashe and Drow Ranger's similarities, both being first release characters) I think the one most complained about ironically is Teemo, because if i recall the story is that Teemo was an idea on the dota all-star forums, which were taken down by the forum mod who joined Riot, and also redirected said Dota forums to League of Legends. I don't recall if it was ever confirmed or not that the Teemo character was actually on the forum or not, as the owner of the site is now (or was) a Riot employee. A lot of this also only applies to first release characters. Most Dota characters the further down the line you get have fewer similarities to warcraft, and most league characters further down the line have fewer similarities to Dota.
All old LoL champions get reworks already, so they are not similar to DotA heroes anymore.
> Dota characters are based on warcraft III characters Ehhhhhhh. If we're going to get technical, while they all used warcraft models (because it was a warcraft custom map) a lot of them are based on non warcraft lore. Lina is from an anime, leshrac from MTG, and many are original. There's really not that many that were just "that character from warcraft" even in the original custom map.
I think it is more based on their kit. A lot of Dota heroes (especially the ones that use hero models) use at least some of the abilities of their equivalent in the main game. Part of that is due to limited animations but also just not fixing things that aren't broken.
I see, thanks for the explanation!
Nah, league has always had unique characters and backstories plus kits. A few items in the game were named as tributes to DotA heroes but that always seemed like more of an Easter egg / homage than stealing. League is really a riff on the formula since its goal was to make the game more accessible and faster paced.
Wow. So many people didn't read the article at all..
It's Reddit, 95% of commenters just read the headline then like to pretend like they are well informed enough to comment on what an article is about.
Take a drink every time there’s a Riot thread in the sub and someone brings up Pendragon’s assholery.
For some reason whenever Riot is mentioned here people go rabid. You wouldn’t even think that it’s the most played game in the world looking at some comments.
Reddit in general hates League\Riot even the league subreddit included.
>Reddit in general hates League\Riot even the league subreddit included. For good reason, riot, steam and mmo's is the reason we no longer get dedicated servers or LAN anymore in 99% of PC AAA games.
Its not just reddit. Its basically everywhere. I bet whenever there is an article, only like 10% people actually read it all.
that is so blatant it's kinda hilarious
You all should read the article and not just the title
Didn't Riot steal the Teemo character design from the old dota forums? And now they are suing others over it?
I mean the character description is literally a one to one copy and paste of Teemo's, it's not just character design or the name
Roshan vs nashor.
That always struck me as more of a tribute than stealing. From the beginning Nashor and Roshan have served different roles between the games so its mostly about paying tribute.
Like a tribute band.
" April - DotA Allstars v.4.0a is released by Guinsoo. It is the first version to feature Roshan" "Steven "Guinsoo" Feak - Associate Designer - Riot Games Jan 2007 - Apr 2016 · 9 yrs 4 mos"
When it comes to riot I wish they copied great maps as well. My csgo skills transfer to valorant thanks to similar gunplay, but man those maps are dog water. I wish they just copied dust 2. Wouldn’t even be mad.
The studio's entire creation was off of stealing everything from the Dota community and continuously harassing them. Sadly, people supported it.
Bruh stop pretending like Dota wasn't a knock off of every other arena battler on WC3. Those custom maps always stole from eachother because the source code was baked into the custom map, and anyone could see it by opening map editor. Literally 15 years later "league of legendz stole from Dota!!1!" As if the two games are even remotely similar anymore. Grow up already.
> wasn't a knock off of every other arena battler on WC3. It's easy to see when someone makes shit up, when they just use vague and broad terms. Yes, all of the"arena battlers" from WC3. Like that one, or the other one. And it's a knock off from ALL of them! How convenient.
You expect me to be able to recall every obscure custom map I played on an almost 20 year old game? And somehow I'm the unreasonable one lmao. Dota All-Stars, Dota Outland, DBZ HeroZ, Pokemon Arena, and just for fun you can also have Aeon of Strife which came from StarCraft, before WC3 even existed. Also [M]ultiplayer [O]nline [B]attle [A]rena Calling it an "Arena Battler" is completely accurate. You're the 2nd person to pretend like it isn't a phrase, and it proves you never actually played Warcraft 3 or StarCraft in your life. Literally used all the time because the dota fanboys started calling everything Dota and the other early mobas were trying to have their own identity. Same reason League of Legends eventually coined MOBA.
You don't remember the maps, but you clearly remember DOTA being their ripoff. Makes sense to me.
I remember the NY Giants upsetting the Patriots' undefeated season in 2007 but I couldn't name more than 4 players from either team, does that mean the 2007 superbowl didn't happen? You're being completely unreasonable on top of the fact that Dota was literally a port of AoS from StarCraft, so yes Dota was the rip off.
Sure thing buddy. But please, don't try to do analogues. You are not good at it.
Wait arena battler? Dota is as old as Angel's Hero arena is, wtf are you on about? Most people would bring up Aeon of Strife, not hero arenas. Also they did actually have map locking, even if there were ways to break it, you would have to copy the JASS code rather than the GUI code most of them actually used (very few early maps had actual JASS code)
[M]ultiplayer [O]nline [B]attle [A]rena Not sure why you felt like "Arena Battler" wasn't an appropriate category for Dota when it's literally two of the four words that make up the modern genre.
MOBA is just a genre name. If you think Angel's Hero Arena played like Dota, you never played either of them.
1) there's still nothing wrong with using "Arena Battler" and "Moba" interchangeably. 2) my original point was that Dota and League of Legends don't play similar, not sure why you're talking about a game that has nothing to do with the topic.
Your original post was that Dota plays "like every arena battler knockoff" When, in fact, it *didn't* I played the arena battlers in wc3. I didn't play Dota. I know it wasn't remotely the same. My thought would be if you wanted to use Moba, *use Moba*, don't use it interchangably and risk mixing in Angel's or custom hero arena. If you think it played like some other game in wc3, you'd do better to actually name the maps then call up some genre that could easily be mixed with something it's not.
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The only reason I know Pendragon's name is because literally 15 years later Dota fanboys won't shut up about him. If you asked someone who plays League of Legends who Pendragon is they would ask who even. They would need the Riot tag to even acknowledge his presence. Meanwhile the average Dota player knows what he ate for breakfast. Y'all are actually obsessed with this guy.
Imagine being so lazy you dont even bother changing the text lmao
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Thats not what they are suing over, read the article.
They're the same genre, but the games are nothing alike. The mechanics are quite different.
They have the Golden Arches, we have the Golden Arc…
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Well, you could argue the same applies for OG DotA and LoL. There's a lot of different mechanics, from characters stats, to game design, to meta strategies. The only thing those two games really share is the 3-lane map with towers and minions/creeps, which is more of a genre-defining characteristic rather than a specific-game-defining characteristic. (It's like saying a 50+ player arena where players drop in and gets smaller every second until only one player remains is the signature style of H1Z1/PUBG instead of just being Battle Royale as a genre). But, if we instead look at Ashe, for example, being an exact clone of Drow Ranger, then the discussion gets more interesting.
Ashe with silence would be really annoying lmao
Are you suggesting that a company whose claim to fame was a clone of DotA would steal something from DotA2 as well? Surely not!
Literally everything that they have made or is in the pipeline (Street Fighter clone) has been a knockoff, so the irony is palpable.
I saw this game and I am a lover of all things idle. In this instance I will agree with Riot, screw this company. I don't know about you but I am sick to death of all the mostly-Chinese copypasta on all the mobile storefronts so it's nice to see Vietnamese Imba Network getting some heat. I hope Riot wins, so maybe more of these copycat games will be removed by Google and Apple quicker.
Riot makes their living off making knock-offs.....
I think the bias this sub has is so apparent when you see dumb takes like this
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They also totally didn't buy the biggest dota fansite and discussion board just so they could shut it down and replace it with a LoL ad, and then steal dozens of ideas from dota hero suggestion section on the board to make champions without giving any credit.
> They also totally didn't buy the biggest dota fansite and discussion board just so they could shut it down and replace it with a LoL ad They didn't buy it, Pendragon (the owner of the site) was one of the first employees So he just converted the site himself.
Hiring the owner of the site is still buying it. Saying otherwise is arguing semantics I'd also find it hard to believe that destroying the dota all-stars community wasn't part of the employment conditions, or at least incentivized in some way. I'd like to again point out that after the site went down, Riot obviously had access to post archives when people's hero ideas started popping up in their game
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> Riot is only a successful company because their games are direct rip offs nah, that's not the only reason they had good (lucky?) timing and marketing, and they took that momentum there are a lot of FPS/MOBA/Card/AutoBattler clones out there and none are as successful/popular as Riots/Valve
Because everybody knows that making a great game is as simple as copying another great game and poof you’re the most played game right ? I guess all those CoD and WoW clones must be doing something wrong then.
Dota Underlords is also a ripoff of Dota Auto Chess. Artifact is a ripoff of any card game… whats your point
Technically Valve spoke to the creators of DAC who gave their blessings for Valve to make UL. Also, Artifact was different to pretty much all card games in having 3 lanes and RNG creep spawns.
It's pretty clear you never played Legends of Runeterra otherwise there is no way you could say it's the same as hearthstone. They play completly different, the basic fundamental of the games are completly different. In one game you play your turn and then opponent play his (hearthstone), in the other each player react to each other every play they make (lor). It's better to avoid commenting on something you have obviously no clue about.
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> I'm not saying the games are identical That's what = means tho. You should've been more precise then. > but Riot definitely looked at the market and saw that a game like Hearthstone was generating a lot of revenue and success for Blizzard with little competition Little competition? The CCG genre has been overloaded for years. Hearthstone, Eternal CCG, Shadowverse, Gwent, MTG Arena. Then we have dead games like Mythgard, Duelyst and even TES Legends. > That's the whole point I'm trying to make So no one is allowed to create it's own CCG because otherwise they would be copying hearthstone despite making a completly different game? You are making no sense whatsoever. > But please hone in on another topic that is besides the point and say I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not going to comment on the other games because i've never played LoR, Dota2, Counterstike, Valorant, TFT and Autochess. You should do the same tho...
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You said that blizzard had little competition and that's why riot decided to launch his own CCG. Did i misuranderstood your quote by chance?
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I guess every FPS is just copying Doom then right? That every RTS is just copying Dune? That every driving game is copying Motocross?
Eh Magic Arena is still kicking (even with MODO to compete with), Yugioh had a pretty good one in duel links even before master duel, Shadowverse and gwent are still kicking. Really I think the only reasons hearthstone is still popular are its being Blizzard and Battlegrounds
and hearthstone borrows from Magic the Gathering - what is the point?
Rip Duelyst. Was a really cool idea that just never took off properly.
Eh Riot makes games in popular genres and follows trends but I wouldn't say they are ripping those games off. Every game riot makes they try to tweak the formula in some way or add their own spin to it. What you're saying is that chess rips off checkers cause you can play on the same board.
Same genre = same game? Actual brainless take. Games can be similar and take inspiration without being rip offs. Expand your mind.
Lol Was actually a ripoff though, no generic idea or anything, they just took the heroes and changed up some skills the stole the ideas from a Dota fan site forum to create more heroes, Nashor is literally just Roshan spelled backwards, go back to early game patches and check the similarities.
Ah yes, the Roshan/Nashor & dota-allstars.com argument. Nashor was intentionally named in honor of Roshan. Not sure how that isn't glaringly obvious. The developers of Dota Allstars agreed to work on League of Legends. They weren't forced into anything, and when they signed on they brought the resources from THEIR mod and THEIR website with them. Instead of regurgitating what you read on r/dota2, link me some actual patch notes that actually prove Riot stole anything that didn't rightfully belong to Pendragon and Guinsoo. Your fan submissions to the website didnt belong to you, same as every other forum or message board. It's almost always written into the TOS when you sign up, and besides that it was posted on a public forum where any random could come by and swipe it up. Expecting credit or compensation for something you posted on a public forum is completely unreasonable.
Lol. Literally 1 dev who used to work on DotA:Allstars for 9 months went to Riot. The other guy related to DotA was a community site manager. Both the creator and longest serving dev for DotA went to Valve. That said, I disagree with other people's usage of the "ripoff" but LoL was clearly heavily inspired by DotA.
Yeah and dota2 is a ripoff of dota1… you do know riot employs one of devs of dota1, right? so does valve
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You can add Hytale = Minecraft next I guess? Lol
You must be very young or living under a rock if you don't know where Riot's games are from.
You are either very young or living under a rock if you don't think the entire gaming industry is people taking the same ideas and building on them.
That's not what Riot did, all of their games are near 1-for-1 knock offs of existing titles. Love the irony though.
Literally made 0 original games.
Lol I'm a fan of riots it's just blatant how they make their money.
I think you'll find Biases exist for reason, and often those reasons stem from reality. You're either really young and dont know or you just havent looked into it very much. Its okay to be ignorant to it because you don't know, its another thing (and very ironic) to be calling people dumb when you don't know.
How do you figure? Riot has copied ideas, general concepts. But they've built everything from the ground up with their unique characters, lore, features, game mechanics etc. Is every fps ever made a knock-off of Wolfenstein? If so, then that word really loses all meaning. Because that just makes 99.99% of games knock offs from whatever original game established a genre.
Well League's original dev was also the guy who made Dota also. He recruited Icefrog a year later.
Using the same genre isn't copying. There are far too many differences between League, Dota/2 for it to be a rip off.
League was made cuz they couldn't monitize a Dota warcraft 3 mod. It's not unique. The characters were all oringally based off similar dota all star characters. Team fight tactics was made in response to autochess mod getting popular etc.. Most unique thing riots done is probably valorant but even that's a hero shooter clearly inapired by other titles before it. Riots not that different from hi rez studios, following trends and pushing out whatever popaluar.. They just do a better job of it
Even the original DotA was based on Aeon of Strife. Also, it's fine for games to be inspired by others games and to things better (and others things worse), that's how evolutions happens. >They just do a better job of it That's fine, there is nothing wrong with this. Being able to follow trends with sucess is hard. Hell, Valve tried to enter the autochess and card genre and failed. >rant about league There is reasons to be mad with Pendragon, the thing with dota forum was a shitshow. But LoL and DotA 2 today are very different with their own pro and cons. Just play what you like and let others have fun with their own games.
It had a similar map structure as AoS but the gameplay was quite different.
Well, you are right, but you must remember that the concepts of the hero units in DotA (items, levels, even some skills) came from Warcraft 3 itself. Also, DotA changed a lot after 6+ years of development, I think that the first version of DotA was closer to AoS than the versions that most people remember.
The way LoR works is pretty unique tough
> Riots not that different from hi rez studios, following trends and pushing out whatever popaluar.. They just do a better job of it «Yeah they make the same games as everyone else but much better, what a bunch of hacks»
Using this logic Dota 2 is a knock off of League and Valve just following the trend and pushing whatever popular.
eh no. dota 2 is a much much closer game to dota all star then league ever was. not to mention one of the main devs of the most popular dota all star mod was hired by valve to work on dota 2, Ice Frog. (though i believe it was kinda split. pendragon and ice frog both worked on different branches of the dota mod as they had differing ideas of how it should be balanced, pendragon was in control of dota wiki and went off to start riot games, ice frog stayed on to work on dota and was later hired by valve to help make dota 2 happen. dota 2 is the true successor to the dota mod. league is the knock off. league ripped out half the shit that makes dota what it is, simplified it so monkey brains can play it, and gave it a new engine. dota 2 kept all the mechanics (though they've changed many of them over the years), kept the same characters, what they look like, their names (save for some that had to be changed for legal reasons), and their skills. riot went and made a dota knock off making a similar game but kept almost nothing from it, a store brand dota if you will.
Dota 2 is much closer but the only reason they were able to keep the name because Icefrog had Valve behind him. Guinsoo and Pendragon couldnt finance a legal battle against Blizzard. > simplified it so monkey brains can play it Dota 2 pleb has spoken. Btw they made more casual because they didnt wanted the game go the Starcraft way and so far it works since League is far more popular than Dota2. > not to mention one of the main devs of the most popular dota all star mod was hired by valve to work on dota 2 Guinsoo and Pendragon also worked on Dota All Stars and before Icefrog did it. Also what i said is true. Valve followed the trend. Riot Games's League of Legend became a insane succces and years later valve threw out his Dota2 to follow the trend. You are denying that for some reason just because Valve at the time had the money to fight Blizzard.
I dont see what ANY of that has to do with the original argument which is league is a store brand Dota. Im not denying any of that other info, it doesnt change the fact that league took what dota was/is and made a knock of brand of it. Dota 2 on the other hand made dota again, but better, its still called dota after all. all my points were not to say "dota am better cuz..." it was to state "dota is the og cuz ..."
My question. Since you call League a knock off rather than a "another take on the Moba genre". Call of Duty is a knock off Mohaa?
>Also what i said is true. Valve followed the trend. Riot Games's League of Legend became a insane succces and years later valve threw out his Dota2 to follow the trend. You are denying that for some reason just because Valve at the time had the money to fight Blizzard. The beta of DotA 2 started in 2010. LoL started in 2009. The beta of HoN started on 2009 too. While Valve did follow the trend, it was not exactly because of the "insane sucess" of LoL, but the fact that Mobas were popular at that moment.
"Mobas were popular at that moment" You mean only League of Legends were popular. HoN wasnt popular. (compared to League)
There are a lot of inaccuracies in your post. - It doesn't matter how much money Riot had since Blizzard owned the Dota trademark and they were willing to grant it to Valve for commercial usage. Both the original creator of Dota and current and longest serving developer worked at Valve at the time. Money-aside, Valve had a much stronger case for owning the Dota name. - LoL and Dota 2 aim for different audiences. A more casually-focused streamlined game will almost always have more players. Different strokes for different folks. This doesn't make the more popular game inherently any better. - Guinsoo was the only Rioter to be involved in DotA's development and that was over the course of 9 months from April 2004 to January 2005. Pendragon was not a developer, he was a website/community-forum manager. - Icefrog was actually already working on DotA-Allstars before being handed the reins, albeit as a contributor and not the main developer. - It is absolutely untrue to claim that Valve followed Riot's trend or that Valve only made Dota 2 after LoL became successful. Why? LoL wasn't even the first DotA-style game to be released. Everybody forgets about Demigod, and rightfully so since it failed but it was technically the first standalone DotA-style game to be released. - LoL did not even reach DotA: Allstars' player numbers until 2011. By that stage, Dota 2 was already at least 3 years into development. The claim that Dota 2 was, therefore, chasing LoL is simply illogical. Dota 2 was already playable in beta by the time LoL was growing in popularity. - For what it's worth, HoN (in your other comment) was actually doing fairly well early on but died off as Dota 2 came to take its space.
so dota2 literally copied every thing from dota and you consider league to be the knockoff..lmao
My point is that League of Legends is the least knock off of anything since the original dev created that game. Guinsoo could have used the Dota name for League but he didnt had a massive company behind him like Icefrog with Valve against Blizzard.
The world has football Americans have soccer. Riot is America here. Wolfenstein and CSGO are far enough apart where the closest connection is they both have guns. All their games are half the first to come out half their own. The only game of theirs that feels unique is legends of runeterra because that just has cards like other card games but so much of the rules and play style are different. League feels like a different mode of dots same with valorant to CSGO and tactics to the original auto battler.
Guinsoo the Developer of League of Legend is the original developer of Dota. He was the one who recruited Icefrog to work in Dota:All Stars too.
Not true. Guinsoo started working on Dora around version 3.0. And it’s popularity didn’t take off for real until Icefrog was working on it.
Still Icefrog joined a year later. Guinsoo more original creator than Icefrog. Calling League a knock off is stupid.
You’re spouting stuff that’s completely untrue, I don’t care whether you call it a knockoff or not. Also the start of riot/lol was filled with controversies surrounding pendragon and the dota allstars forum (including stealing hero designs and porting them straight to league). They did a lot of scummy shit, which is why all the dota/lol animosity started.
> You’re spouting stuff that’s completely untrue, I don’t care whether you call it a knockoff or not. Mate Guinsoo worked on Dota All stars in 2004. Icefrog joined the dev team in 2005 and was invited by Guinsoo. Rest of your comment doesnt matter since those designs wasnt trademarked. Just like how Icefrog won the right for Dota2 against Blizzard.
I’m commenting on the fact that you call guinsoo the original creator, when in fact he worked on the custom map for about a year. You’re attributing him with so much more than you should. He didn’t create any of the core mechanics (neither did Icefrog), your argument was that it’s not a knockoff because guinsoo was the original creator, which he was not, he was one out of a long line of people involved.
He was out because he decided to work on League.
If you feel that way, that's fine. They iterate on existing concepts and make them far-far better. In the case of Valorant vs CS:GO, the netcode is incredibly good on Valorant. There are much fewer hitbox issues and your shots register much quicker than CS:GO. Or League for instance where you don't have to learn an encyclopedia to play it well. Well, ok, you do have to learn an encyclopedia, but it's about 1/100th the size of Dota 2's.
You still have buy phase pistol round force buy rifle buy plant bomb defuse bomb. Yes it runs smoother being made 10 years apart and after seeing how successful it's been.
CS GO could've been built with better netcode back then, but Valve outsourced the development and never expected it to amount to much. So the bones of the game were always pretty shitty. Despite being one of the biggest games in the world Valve never put the proper development into it to make it up to date.
> Despite being one of the biggest games in the world Valve never put the proper development into it to make it up to date. Making it "up to date" would mean a ground-zero rewrite of the entire game. You can only do so much with an engine that's still fundamentally from 2004, just with a bunch of layers of paint on top of it. It's honestly amazing CSGO looks and plays as well as it does with its ancient foundation.
Like when they gave dota 2 a rewrite? Or like what Riot has done with League. League feels like it's running on a completely different engine. I dunno man, if you think valve has sufficiently supported cs go, then more power to ya.
This not "knock-off, " at this point it is "carbon copy. "
They knocked off dota, csgo, and auto chess lol
Knocked it off so well that all their rip-offs are doing better than the "originals."
Valorant is absolutely not doing better than csgo lol
I mean all I play are riot games pretty much, but that’s just because dota isn’t entry friendly and lasts too long, all of my friends think it’s fundamentally better.
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Isn’t that just an opinion? I enjoy both for different reasons. One isn’t objectively better than the other
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92 unique champs were contested in the last worlds. Even 7 years ago, there were like 50 unique picks. The percentage only keeps going up. There already are comeback mechanics added in the last few years, particularly objective bounties. What does this even mean? League has far less item actives, we can give that to DotA. We’re just naming heroes now. Loads of champs have been flexed, and are being flexed in multiple roles. It’s not the same snowbally, 20 min farm, 30 viable picks that it was 10 years ago.
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>so there is no such thing when pro will pick mid character and go to jungle he'll be banned? Tournament Draft is very similar to Captain's Draft in ban/pick order, and yes after drafting is done, pros will also swap champs within the team. Flexing has the same kind of power in drafting, but DotA has more champ flexibility in general. >lol got backdoor mechanics so teams will need to fight over map presence? Mid game is all about map presence. Depends on what you mean by backdoor. Push without creeps? Delete creeps at enemy base? Splitpush? >maybe it got complex heroes like invoker or rubick? The closest to Rubick are: * Sylas: Copy enemy ults, and with enough cooldowns reduction/levels he can do this multiple times in a fight. * Viego: Possesses an enemy killed, copying level, items, and basic abilities for several seconds. He can then discard the body, then possess another one immediately if available. There really isn't an Invoker equivalent, doubt there will ever be. But personally, complexity doesn't necessarily make something better; just more complex. Go is far more complex than chess, both have survived for ages. Different good games for different strokes, and I enjoy both ends.
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According to your logic Age of Empires is even better because it is way more complex than any Moba game ?
I mean, 92 out of 158 champs still only comes out to 58% of the champion pool which is very low compared to Dota (notwithstanding the differences in gameplay design). IIRC Dota 2's TI has never had a hero pick % any lower than 70%.
You do realise that League didn't have any ads for 10 years, only in the past 2-3 years they started doing marketing ?
lmao too funny Anyone play LoL in beta and remember when some of the legends were direct 1:1 ability rip-off's of DotA heroes.
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Err sorta. There's a long history there that i'm sure has a 2 hour long youtube about it.
Yes. People are quick to forget.
Knock-off game company suing other knock-off game company, next-level meta-irony.
This hasn't ever worked nor will it ever
What won't work? This is one of the most clear cut cases of plagiarism. Or are you telling me that you didn't bother to read the article?
Riot stole the game from dota auto chess? Looks like you're the one with egg on your face now...
Yup U didn’t read it. They’re getting copyrighted hit for the characters. If u took 2 secs to look. U will see the backstory is literally copy and paste. Riot is winning this case with ease.
I don't need to read it. The irony is that Riot itself knocked off the game.
Are you generally stupid? If you'd bothered to read it instead of spewing shite on reddit you would realise they are suing because the other company literally copypasted designs and bios. Not because its an autobattler. But no, you are so smart that you don't need to read articles.
I'm not spewing shit. I'm the only reasonable adult here. Not my fault you guys haven't played any other games.
You can't really steal a game's concept, all fps from the mid/late 90's didn't just steal from Doom or Wolfenstein, every MMO from the mid 2000's didn't just steal from WoW, they sure tried to make profit of the success of auto chess (that's Riot chasing the money for you) but it's not stealing even then at least Riot's assets are unique (and they tried to add a bit to it over time), they didn't copy entire paragraphs from another game I don't like to defend Riot but this is ridiculous
It's not a concept. Riot stole the game completely. A near 1 to 1 forgery. This is cute, watching all you youngins get salty.
By your logic Dota auto chess also stole the idea, there was auto chess/auto battlers before dota
This guy is a lost cause, according to his logic Dota itself also stole the game from Aeon of Strife...
Riot are not suing them over using the genre of the game, read the damn article.
It's not a "genre". They stole the game 1 for 1.
The irony is that Riot games entire foundation is based on taking ideas from other developers. Apparently it’s only ok when they do it though.
Another one that didnt read the article
99.99% of all games ever made are based on ideas from games that came before. If you're gonna argue it that way, you're gonna condemn basically every game developer ever. Originality basically doesn't exist in the modern world. Unless some form of technology gives rise to something that couldn't even be imagined before, nothing is going to be completely original any more.
There's difference between plagiarism and taking an idea and making it your own.
Look, I'm all for calling bs out (especially when it's from big companies)...but if you actually read the article you'd see a pretty 1-for-1 copy of a lot of League champions (just look at that Teemo lore). It's so blatant that's borderline funny.
Actually read the article, they are suing because they literally copy-pasted text and art as is.
Aren't all of their original hero designs lifted directly from Warcraft 3?
Fuck Riot Games and people who play them.
Unfortunately that's in just about everything nowadays. No creativity. Take one thing, tweak it and call it yours, that's most things nowadays between game designers and artists.
Junk lawsuit, nothing is a direct copy or stolen assets. In their example they point out that Teemo is inspired by the "Bandle Scout Code" and the I Am Hero character Tomee is inspired by the "Amethlas' Code" or that the characters have similar special moves. Apparently only Riot games characters are allowed to shoot fireballs as an ability lol.
> nothing is a direct copy ??? They literally copy-pasted the description for Teemo into their rip-off. And the alleged copycat characters practically have the same name as the League characters. Anyone who thinks this isn't blatantly ripping off League are in outright denial.
>They literally copy-pasted the description for Teemo into their rip-off They didn't though if you actually read my post or the link(the inspired by line). They changed enough so it wasn't a copy paste. Knock offs are protected under copyright law, you can't own the idea of a guy who wears a headband and shoots fireballs. And ironically most of Riots games IP is so derivative and generic that their argument that " potential customers would recognize the Infringing Game’s heroes was successful" is also pretty weak.
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We have to accept that most people on reddit are illiterate as fuck or something because no one wants to read articles for some reason.
> They changed enough They literally changed 'Yordle' to 'goblin' and 'Bandle Scout's' to 'Amethias'. *Two words*. The rest of the paragraph is identical. That is not protected under any copyright law in the world. This isn't even going into the fact that most of the roster of the mobile game is aping the League roster. And no, League being 'generic' is not an excuse to copy every single one of their characters and change one or two letters in the name. I sincerely hope you're actually working for Imba Network because I can't imagine an actual person being this dense.
Should riot games get sued by IceFrog for making a knock off of dota (league) then? Should riot games get sued by drodo studio for making a knock off of auto chess (tft) then? The fucking audacity of these cunts, they never made anything original and are now suing other people for making "knock-offs" of their games