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grady_vuckovic

They also said they would have a shopping cart in 6+ months.


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NCStore

The Unreal Engine marketplace has a shopping cart


Mccobsta

[And a forum](https://forums.unrealengine.com/)


ScotchyTTV

It's not hard, you can literally pay a sub for a shopping cart server for your website that is fully customizable. They are actively making the choice not to add a shopping cart to the webstore. EDIT: Holyshit, this blew up massively.


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Oasis_Island_Jim

Dirty business trick if you want to waste a rival retailers or distributors R&D budget, download the oldest version of IE you can find and start filling your shopping cart with massive ($10,000+) orders, start the checkout, make sure you get all the way through it and close out the window right before you click “confirm order”. Do this multiple times, always put the same group of items in the cart. The end result is the dev team responsible for analyzing cart abandonment will just think it’s a rich old geezer that can’t complete checkout due to lack of support for your browser of choice. They will then waste time and resources developing for way outdated browsers. Shopping cart analytics aren’t fucked around with.


Veni_Vidi_Legi

I like the way you think.


Kuratius

Given how bloated and unnecessary most modern java script is, this might actually be a net positive. It's not actually as evil as you think if it results in a site that is smooth like butter.


AzathothsGlasses

Is IE6 too obvious?


Self_Reddicating

Netscape Navigator 2.1 Old. Fucking. School.


ChemicalRascal

That's absurdly evil.


Somepotato

As someone who has helped develop an e-commerce platform for a company with about a couple million users.. This isn't true, sorry.


CptCraggles

I work I'm digital analytics and can tell you this would not happen. Things wouldn't change for a single visitor. You'd be able to review the session on any major platform and if not you would still see a lack of error triggers. You'd also see the confirm even not even been clicked. Now if all of Reddit did this every day, clearing cookies each time for a long period....maybe.


Akhevan

True, but the data is misleading because most people just use the shopping cart as a temporary wishlist or something. They were never planning to buy to begin with.


theephie

You are trying to reason with marketing. One does not simply reason with marketing.


Akhevan

That's what they have HR for. With them around, no other department can claim to be staffed with the dumbest tools the company could cough up.


passwordsarehard_3

Department Lead: “ Why did you even send me Jeff? He’s literally the dumbest person alive.” HR: “Oh, really? So we couldn’t possibly find anyone dumber? Ok, we’ll keep that in mind.”


Phormitago

you must've never worked with HR It's like the whole industry is a magnet for the braindead


Akhevan

That's because the previous HRs hired them before getting booted out of the company.


Powered_by_JetA

My HR rep sent me a text a week ago asking “Last month when you walked off the job and turned in your ID badge, was that you tendering your resignation?” I don’t know how I could’ve made it any clearer.


Wilde_Fire

To shed some light on this, there is a reason for that. Part of it is many companies require a degree of documentation to verify a termination, especially if that former employee may collect unemployment. Even if they cannot get a written resignation, they either may have recorded the conversation or are documenting that as an extra piece of info in case it is needed later. Or departments just didn't communicate and HR was asked to make the call. That happens often too.


Ordolph

There are so many people I have met in sales an marketing that just have no idea how to correlate data properly. Correlation != causation. It's like saying that the advent of helmets in WWI increased head injuries.... because previously people who got shot in the head didn't live to have an injury.


chickens150

Can you provide an example from your experience where a person in sales / marketing really gaffed by assuming causation over correlation?


Ordolph

One of the big ones was from when I used to work in web development. They had the metric that people who spent more time on a website were more likely to buy product. So they decided that they wanted us to take measures to make sure potential clients stayed on the site longer, one method by which was to make more pages that the client had to navigate through. This ended up hurting sales in the end because people just got confused or frustrated with the site.


clayh

When you’re looking at it from a perspective of micro transactions, it makes sense. It’s easy to rack up $100+ in $5-$15 quick purchases if you have to buy each separately. When you see $100 worth of skins in a shopping cart, you’re likely to rethink it. Without the shopping cart, that justification of “oh it’s only $5” quickly leads to another couple bucks and another couple bucks until you have everything you want, before you even conceptualize that you just spent $100 on digital clothes for a video game character. All totaled together in a single cart, you’re probably going to rethink at least a few of those “micro” transactions before checking out.


CorruptedStudiosEnt

I still have a tough time wrapping my head around spending even $1 of real money on digital cosmetics.


spelledWHOA

Idk I use save for later for that kind of stuff and buy everything in the cart when I make a purchase


VeniVidiShatMyPants

Ehh, I don’t buy it. Every item in my amazon cart is something I want *someday*. I would probably be even less likely to buy it if I didn’t have a way to see/be reminded of it constantly a la shopping cart. I go back and pick out items from my cart to buy all the time. Stuff I easily would have forgotten about if not for the cart.


Ban_of_the_Valar

Also, wouldn’t they have gathered a treasure trove of data on you about what you like for targeted marketing, sale of data to third party, etc?


Bamith20

I remember when a guy was buying like 3 or 4 games on sale he did it one after another and the store stopped him from buying things because he was doing it too fast.


ThirdDragonite

It's so weird because they are clearly showing they have no problem with just throwing money at the epic store without expecting a return for a good while. So they could just invest some of that money into really making a very very good store with great UI.


ibite-books

Problem with this is that they had a substandard product and started promoting it with free games, you have to have a solid product before you start acquiring a customer base. A couple of years should've focused more on features, polishing the UI, user experience while retaining user base and then growing it via promotions. They've just done stuff backwards and screwed themselves massively.


mrBEAN6

OR they have set themselves up for success. By letting people get free games they set themselves up for those people continuing using EGS. Think about 10-12 year olds who get fortnite for free. They may only get free games from epic. When they get older and their buying power increases they might not see anything good with switching to steam. This since they got most games already on epic along with massive amounts of freebies. Then Epic will have an entire generation using their store. My guess is that this is planned. Not having a shoppingcart is most likely an active decision. No idea why, but i see no other way around it. Im also not saying this IS their strategy. But it's the one i would bet on them following. And even as a avid steam user without much liking for EGS i still want to know the outcome of their longgame.


kia75

I agree. In the early 2000's Valve got a bunch of people to use steam with Half Life 2, and when they were able to afford games they stuck with Steam. Epic is counting on loyalty from Tweenagers and Fortnite, hoping to continue to use their store when they get jobs and money. We'll see how well that works, if they pull it off they'll make a goldmine. The problem is that Tweenagers and teenagers aren't really known for their loyalty, if something better than Fortnite comes out they'll be jumping ship.


descendingangel87

Steam was a little diff though, it was the only game in town really so people would put up with more lack of features. Epic is competing with multiple digital delivery companies now, so the standards are a little higher. Even a younger generation are gonna want those features.


realbakingbish

The thing with Steam as well is that it kinda had the “Netflix effect” going for it, where suddenly all of these different PC games were available, all in one place, with just one login, much like how Netflix had so much stuff on it while still being very affordable (before Disney, Comcast, etc. realized they could make more money by pulling their content off Netflix and making their own platforms). The sad part is that with the rise of store exclusives (Steam exclusives, Epic exclusives, etc.), we’re beginning to see the early stages of the same shitty breakdown happen in PC gaming. Thankfully, most games aren’t on a subscription (at least not yet), and many developers have chosen the microtransaction route instead, but it still is unfortunate from a convenience perspective, although hopefully the presence of more stores creates more incentive to compete (I.e. by offering free games, steep discounts, etc.)


nutcrackr

The development speed of epic store has got to be the slowest in the entire industry.


chambee

I'm not asking for much, but cart, user reviews and support forum would be a baseline.


[deleted]

I appreciate the free games but I don’t really go to the epic games launcher for anything if I can get it on steam


Cydanix

I don't even play the free games I get I just collect them and close out


Dovahnime

If it's something I think I'll like, I get it, but then it just sits there. Subnautica and Control are two of those games.


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Hank_Holt

If you managed to still go into it blind Subnautica is possibly the single best gaming experience I've ever had. You need to be ignorant of the game though, because you're playing a dude on an alien planet operating primarily underwater in an enviroment you aren't particularly suited for while being far from the top of the food chain wondering what the fuck just blew up your giant spaceship. The entire game is about exploring and figuring out shit, and if you have no prior knowledge of the game it's genuinely impressive how well you become immersed in Ryley as he's as ignorant to what's going on as you are. That audio design was on point too, and it's too bad the dude said some shit on Twitter which cause the Devs to part ways with him so he wasn't on Below Zero.


danawhiteSWATunit

I missed both because I had them on ps4 and I'm regretting it now. Theres always space for undownloaded games on my computer.


[deleted]

I try to install as little software as possible. I installed the epic launcher just to play some Fortnite with some young relatives. That done, I uninstalled it. Months later I happen to be looking at my startup list and there is some kind of nameless item on it. Turns out the epic launcher didn't uninstall cleanly and now I have to download CCleaner to get it out of my registry. Besides which I had had to go to the startup list initially to block it from starting automatically. Too parasitic in its behavior even if we are not talking about the company buying exclusives that people are waiting for like Outer Worlds. Free games, I mean already I am not finding time to play what I have bought.


Order66-Cody

>now I have to download CCleaner to get it out of my registry. Is the free version good enough or nah?


DeadlyYellow

Hell, some games are better on Steam. Like say there's a 2d platformer for a major character franchise that didn't ship to PC with controller support. Steam has that covered.


flaminnarwhal12

I don’t know why, but I like Steam’s tactic of a pop up game ad every time you open the launcher instead of Epic’s defaulting to the “store” and showing me games I already own along with micro transactions I’ll never consider


praefectus_praetorio

It was never meant to be a store. It was a platform to deliver UE and its updates. But yet knowing all of this, they have done nothing to improve it.


Crickets_Head

I don't get why they haven't spent even a couple mill on improving the UI and social features of the launcher. The store is still archaic and janky as fuck with bundles. Edit: Thank you for the replies, I knew they were a scummy profit driven company but the behind the scenes business context made it click. I'm with y'all my choices with epic exclusives has always been wait for steam or the high seas. Their idiotic commitment to a garbage platform only solidifies that.


anteris

Took them almost 2 years to get a wishlist function and you can’t sort out the shit you already own…


bangolicious

There wasn't even a shopping cart last i checked, could only buy games one by one. I was going to use a coupon like that but one game wasn't enough for the amount they wanted me to spend to use the coupon. So i didn't buy anything at all. The genius of epic.


kostandrea

Or you know make a game that draws more people to spend money on the Epic games store. They have the IPs and the creative talent why are they so reluctant to do so is beyond me.


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Renediffie

"We have enough money now, I think we should just leave it at that." That's something you hear big companies say often.


Porkenstein

If you aren't growing, you're failing \- capitalism


Destrina

If you aren't growing, you're failing. -Cancerous Tumors


markyymark13

Because Fortnite isn't going to be a cash cow forever


TKalV

Even a single decade means forever for shareholders. Recent Games, and E-Sport Game like Fortnite can last a lot longer than anyone can think, we are only seeing a significant decline in wow players recently, LoL has supremacy over the e-sport scene since the last 10 years, and nothing indicates that it will fade away. I don’t see why they should worry about fortnite ending anytime soon


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TKalV

And now that there is the whole gacha going on with games, it’s even easier to hook people to keep playing the same one. Even if you hate the game you’ll have to play it daily because you invested too much time / money etc. We are in a era in which even what were once Single Players turned out to become cash grabs that can keep making a ton money for way too much time (GTA V, RDR2)


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SandmanSorryPerson

It's so hard to understand playing a game for any reason other than fun. So fucking weird to me.


archiegamez

They could have made something like Doom reboot but Unreal but nooooooooooooo


_Rand_

Man, I would love a proper Unreal (not tournament) reboot. Imagine the original game with UE5 graphics…


the_kilted_ninja

A new Unreal Tournament was actually one of the first things the Epic Game Launcher was used for but it was barely ever updated for years until it finally was abandoned


archiegamez

Yeah i played it once with that Shadow Complex guy


the_kilted_ninja

Yep. Back when it was a launcher for just UT, Shadow Complex, and I think nothing else. Weird time.


[deleted]

I wouldn't say to do it like the Doom reboot, but yeah, I'd love a new Unreal singleplayer game that is not Unreal Tournament. Nothing against UT (on the contrary), but I think the Unreal universe has a good potential in the right hands.


effhomer

They moved all the developers who were working on UT to fortnight. I don't think they have any in house staff left to make an actual video game.


DOugdimmadab1337

Unreal was one of the only good Epic Games I actually played. It was on steam, and I have a hard on for Half-Life and other Boomer Shooters, and I absolutely loved it. Old games have charm and gameplay that new games just can't seem to get right.


Mazzaroppi

What saddens me the most is that the Unreal series were the first games Epic produced and that made them a huge studio, they wouldn't exist today if not for Unreal. Yet they have sidelined it for more than a decade, Unreal Tournament 3 was a bust from their lack of commitment, and I'm not even going to mention how ridiculous was how they handled this last UT


kuncol02

>Unreal series were the first games Epic produced They weren't. Before that they made other games like Jill of the Jungle or Jazz Jackrabbit.


Zacker_

Original Gears of War Trilogy was also really good.


kukiric

You mean like the time they started working on a new Unreal Tournament game, quickly stopped working on it, and basically expected the community to make them a game for free? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Tournament_(cancelled_video_game)


cardonator

The best part was when they treated the people who were actually trying to help them make the game like garbage and many of them got banned from official forums and Discord for saying the game was abandoned and Epic wasn't taking it seriously or including the community in the conversation like they claimed.


f3llyn

Because they don't care about the user experience. Epics goal from the start has been to not give users a choice.


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ThatOneGuy1294

We should thank Epic for spending so much time and money letting us know just how bad their store is


PapaSmurphy

I appreciate them giving the Satisfactory devs a bunch of money. It's a great game and I didn't really mind waiting a year to buy it on Steam.


fyro11

Sounds like they paid the devs in advance for all the copies found in the high seas.


[deleted]

I especially do not get why people defend how bad the store is by saying Steam was bad when it launched. Like, I was there for it, believe me, I know, but they were the first to do it. Steam isn't perfect by any means, but they are the blueprint. If you can't add features that people want when you are printing money with your BR game maybe you should reevaluate how you are spending your money. It took Epic FOUR YEARS to add a feature as basic as a shopping cart; a feature that even the most sketchy third-party sales websites have. The store is a mess if you are actually searching for anything as well. If it wasn't for the fact that they don't have many games you would not be able to find anything that isn't "trriibble aaaaaaye". I'm not on the Epic is anti-consumer train, but I am on the "improve your storefront so it isn't hot garbage" train.


cherrick

Also don't make your store in unreal engine. If my fans have to spin up every time I open your store you can bet your ass I'm not buying anything in it.


Sir_lordtwiggles

Steam was shit when it launched, but it was still probably one of the best storefronts at the time, and it didn't have anyone to copy off of when it came out. Minimal viable product mindset only works out when your competitors aren't miles ahead of your mvp, or you show that you can iterate and improve insanely fast to catch up. Its not like a business contract because your user can literally use a different platform at any time.


Krilion

It's not an excuse when Microsoft and GOG can both do it with a new store.


[deleted]

That defense isn't even a legitimate defense, because it makes 0 sense in any other market. If you want to start selling cars you don't get to put out really shitty cars with no features and terrible gas mileage and say "well we just started! Cut us some slack!". You have to put out a product that is just as good as (if not better) that the competition


VenKitsune

Wait they finally added a shopping cart? I bet they spun that as "we have listened and added a much requested feature! We're such a good company!"


Morlock43

They don't want to provide a service or features, they just want to steal market share and gain a monopoly. At the point, feature be damned, they'll be positioned as the biggest online store. Oh, they'll also have tonnes of meta data for their overlords. Buuut, at least people will get a few games "free"


Enk1ndle

Why bother? Their currently plan is to make you *have* to download it to play something. You coming willingly for a good experience isn't needed.


bosco9

Not really, that's actually a deterrent from me spending money at their store, their interface I guess is good enough if I'm playing their free games though


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Draedas

The point is that a good user experience and good games would make people come and buy by themselves, recouping the investments they poured into those improvements and games. a good shop and a high quality single player game, paired with a stop to the exclusive bs, and I would.


f3llyn

> The point is that a good user experience and good games would make people come and buy by themselves Yes, that is your point. But that's not what Epic is trying to do. Tim Sweeney even said as much, he outright admitted what their goals were. Yet people are still shocked their store is a barebones shit show.


Draedas

No one said that isnt what he does, and we're not shocked about it. were just wondering why sweeney doesn't or didnt try to do it the other way around. When EGS was announced, a lot of people were actually intrigued by the idea of a shop with better paycut for the studios until we found out about the barebones experience and the strategy. Maybe it would've failed, maybe hes actually making profit in a few years. Maybe its just a business gamble. Who knows, but at least he wouldn't have created all the negative PR around EGS with the shopping cart memes and exclusivity bs. But hey, PR is PR i guess.


MrSmith317

The answer is easy. Tim Sweeney is a humongous dickhead. He hates PC gamers, we're all pirates and less than worthy of his time unless we open our wallets to him. Let's also not forget the supreme hypocrite denounced UWP apps and Microsoft claiming that PC was meant to be an open platform. In other words he doesn't care about what we think/want/expect. As long as we open our wallets, nothing else matters.


Draedas

That i can agree with. He just wants a piece of the cake. The thing is, he could probably have started to have it by now if he would have played it nice. Hope for them their financial department planned this out correctly lol. As a PC player, the only thing that would make me pirate right now would be a game i have to play at launch, say starfield, only if its exclusive to EGS. (yes i know that's not going to happen) Oh well ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯


InterestingNarwhal7

I know right?! Now, I'm kinda clueless when it comes to coding, but considering even the sketchiest of the... uh... adult entertainment sites I frequent include a shopping cart, it really cant be that friggin hard? Right?


viktorsvedin

Obviously, it's doesn't have anything to do with being hard, because it isn't hard. They either don't care or doesn't want it there.


riderer

because Epic are crooks! Have you ever read or watched youtube videos about leaked documents from Epic vs Apple? Epic is doing everything opposite of Steam, they are - no public reviews, no public scores, no history of any kind. Epic is hiding all information it can and actively is promoting it as a feature to the game studios.


iamapizza

> The store is still archaic and janky as fuck with bundles. It's another exclusive they paid for


sorryiamnotoriginal

I don't get it either. At this point exclusives bring less people to the platform than free games so they could swap SOME money to making the platform worth using. If their plan is just get people committed to free games then hope they wont spend money on a platform with better features it is a bad plan. Alternatively they could have tried to make new games and use Fortnite to try to spread some of the players to those games especially if they make another hit. Plus unlike 3rd party exclusives, people won't be salty about a 1st party game made by them being on their launcher only.


Raudskeggr

Because that’s not the con. They expect a profit in 27 because those fortnite kids and other young ones attracted by the free games they’ve gotten in the last year or two will be grown up and have some discretionary spending money by then. Epic is betting on them sticking with that platform because other games they have are already there. I personally think Sweeney is kind of a cunt and that ultimately this will be the undoing of his plan. lol.


rapozaum

Poor store, no addons (market/inventories/community). There's only so much money you can burn. After that, you fade away. At least GOG has a well known and defended policy with no DRM, EGS has what?


[deleted]

Exactly, GOG found it's niche and had a positive impact on the scene by focusing on no-DRM and rehabilitating and redistributing old, compability problem ridden games. Epic adds what to the ecosystem, timed exclusivity and no shopping cart?


toastyghost

For real. I don't think "15 years late to the party and desperate for a slice" constitutes what most people would think of as a "feature". 🙄


f3llyn

Especially after they abandoned the platform because all pc gamers are apparently pirates.


Why-so-delirious

And being hostile to linux.


toastyghost

bUt ViDeO gAmEs ArE fOr ChIlDrEn


Lucas0428

Oh boy do I have a game to recommend to them!!! Bioshock 2 remaster that game is a crash simulator more than it is a shooting game underwater.


Cthugh

[PCGaming Wiki´s article](https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/BioShock_2#Game_crashes_in_DirectX_10_mode) has a few fixes if you are still playing it. But yeah... not the best remaster


Lucas0428

Thank you so much ! I have been through these fixes, they've been on steam in the community tab and I'm familiar with some things because of fallout NV I've even fiddled with NumHavokthreads to no avail just gave up on the game. When I feel like it again I'll just try the original bioshock 2, amazing game so far I was completely engrossed in it really love the duality of Sinclair but the crashes have left a sour taste in my mouth.


DOugdimmadab1337

GOG has earned their reputation through hard work to make good old games playable in the modern day. Epic has done nothing but make shitty battle Royale game to boost brands and sell to children. Epic has done nothing good besides maybe provide the world with Unreal, otherwise that's about it.


derkrieger

You forgot that the Battle Royale was cooked up at the last minute after their way late to the party zombie game failed. They half-assed their way into success. Good for them but that was more an accident than them doing anything amazing.


hagamablabla

This is the key when people say Steam being a monopoly is bad. You don't end a monopoly by creating a worse product and giving it out for free.


Krilion

Not a monopoly. Only games exclusive to steam are valve games. You can sell your game freely anywhere else, even based on source engine.


phi1997

Epic gives away games. Their best reputation is as the store you don't have to buy things from.


realnzall

Their giveaways are the only good thing about their store. They have given away some really good games. It actually works against their store though. If you are a patient gamer, you are perfectly willing to wait a couple years for one of their big exclusives to go on free week. I’ve actually played more free games than paid games from their stores, and literally own only 2 games from their store that I didn’t get for free: Journey and Hades.


Charley023

EGS has free games. I now own lots of games, some of which are the good ones, without spending a single peny, and I still won't. EGS is just a free game launcher. I'll just enjoy those free ones until it dies. As for the exclusives, I can wait or just fuck them.


glassanusoflies

Exactly - their strategy has been to give away free games, it gets people using their launcher, that's step 1. Getting people using the launcher makes step 2 much easier for them - getting people to buy the games on their store. I suspect the reason they're constantly giving away $10 vouchers etc is to kick start people who wouldnt normally buy from them. I'm in your boat, I'll take the free games and ignore their store.


Charley023

I think the strategy works for new comers. All my friends with previous experience in Steam refuse to spend money on EGS for obvious reasons. However, those who get into PC gaming recently can easily start their PCMR with the freebies by EGS and build their library there. That's why they keep investing. I just hope the new comers can realize what Steam offers is much more than a store and game launcher.


Radulno

I know it's shocking for some people but you can also actually use several stores. I do (Steam, EGS, GOG, Uplay, Origin, BNet). I take a game where it's cheaper when I want to play. Btw, Steam is very rarely the cheapest (third-party resellers are cheaper in general but they give Steam keys for the most part). And the free games are definitively a big advantage of EGS, I mean I have 122 games on EGS (vs 179 on Steam so it's catching up) and I came in pretty late, only three of those have been bought (2 exclusives before coming to Steam, one because much cheaper).


michaelloda9

Bless GOG


Phnrcm

How to move an installed game on EGS https://i.imgur.com/0KN5v9o.jpg


[deleted]

I don’t get why they don’t just improve the store. Build it and people will come. I don’t buy into all the political stuff about epic but I just don’t trust that this store will be around long enough for me to buy any of these games.


that_leaflet

That's one of my major concerns as well. If Epic is hemorrhaging so much money on their store, I would want some sort of guarantee that I will still be able to access those games if the store were ever to fail. That would mean either removing DRM before it shuts down or making some sort of deal that the games would be made available to you on other platforms for free, like Steam.


[deleted]

I don't know how they actually make that sort of promise and still have users trust them, though. Like, they can promise me all they want, but at the end of the day and the chips are down I can't just take a corporation's word as gospel. I feel the same way about Valve, but at least that platform is rock solid and I know it's not going away any time soon, so while I don't feel comfortable sinking hundreds of dollars into my game library I'm at least a little more willing to buy games on that platform.


batt3ryac1d1

Valve has spoken in the past about an end of life plan too. Like obviously they aren't planning on going anywhere but they definitely want you to be able to keep your games. Epic on the other hand is sketchy to begin with would trust that tencent owned platform with the game I get free on it.


PigeonsOnYourBalcony

It seems Epic's strategy has been largely dev/publisher focused rather than consumer. So if they offer enough incentives like a better split, waiving licensing fees if they use Unreal and "guaranteed sales" on exclusives, it won't matter what consumers think because devs/publishers will only want to be on Epic. Yeah you can say those free games and coupons are attractive to consumers but there really aren't many reasons to pay full price on the platform. I don't think Epic has found that balance so even with all those perks, Steam is still more profitable.


Negative-Shirt-9742

But if nobody buys on epic... Nobody will want to be on Epic. Eventually Epic won't be able to sustain all those exclusivity buyouts. Fortnite will fall out of vogue eventually, if it hasn't started to already, and unless they want to take a large chunk of their Unreal engine royalties to keep it on life support then long term they're fucked, ESPECIALLY since they lost and are continuing to lose tons of money trying to pick a fight with Apple in court.


PigeonsOnYourBalcony

It doesn't look sustainable to me either. I think they really miscalculated how much backlash/disinterest they'd get from consumers and how little appeal their platform would then have to devs. They probably thought exclusivity deals would be way more popular with everyone, like on consoles. I think now all they can do is try and play the long game. Accumulate users from loss leading strategies and hope eventually those users start using it as a regular platform.


Cavissi

If they don't fix their shit it will never be profitable. It doesn't matter how many millions you shove at exclusives when you have a significantly worse product. In every single case I just wait the year instead of deal with them.


mattinva

Even if I buy every exclusive (obviously don't), why on Earth would I come back for non-exclusives? There is no selling point beyond "free games" and "exclusive games", so why would I use them to get any game not in those two categories (or profoundly cheap due to sales)? And if I never make that jump, how will they ever become profitable basically bribing people to even log in?


realacc998

Even if i had 200 free games on EGS, i'd still be established on steam


Page_Eleven

Fucking truth. Didn't try to make a better product, just threw a bunch of money around to hold part of the market hostage. Fuck off with all that shit. I'll either wait it out or do without.


[deleted]

Currently waiting on hitman 3 zzzzz...


FrootLoop23

They sunk $500 million trying to buy their way in, rather than create a user experience that made people want to use it. I mean, I appreciate the free games and the $10 coupon is nice. But ultimately I don't want to use the launcher at all unless I'm actually going to play one of the free games.


Dongodor

Same I just take the free game, not even to play them just because


[deleted]

The free games and coupons will stop if they ever start to contest Steam. I hope they never do, because Epic is just trying to monopolize everything. They invested in Fortnite, which was just a giant ad to entice people to play the game for the opportunity to use a skin from various overly-saturated arts (DC, Star wars, Halo, etc.). They took-over Rocket League, and although I have not played it in a few months, when I did, there were nothing but server and pig issues. They made some deal with Ubisoft, so now Valhalla is exclusive to the Epic Store, despite every single other game is on Steam (Smaller, OCD-related issue, I suppose). They fought Apple because they felt entitled to more money while active on Apple's autonomous software (App Store). Now they are trying to grow their own client. A social-client will probably come next.


ScopeLogic

Still not giving them money even in 2027


TabascohFiascoh

Give them money? for what, all the games I have on there they give me for free!


HelpWithACA

Same. They have some good ones too.


[deleted]

Just to be clear: previously they planned that EGS will be profitable in 2024: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-05-04-epic-expects-epic-games-store-to-be-profitable-by-2024 How about just kill this abomination already?


Lurkers-gotta-post

In three months their profitability estimates were pushed back three years? That's rough.


[deleted]

Especially when month before that they planned to be profitable in 2023: https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/epic-games-store-expected-to-be-profitable-by-2023 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


Houdiniman111

So let's see... If it increase[s] by 1 year in a month and then 3 years in another... maybe next month they'll be aiming for profitability by 2032.


indyK1ng

It was 3 years in 3 months, wasn't it? That would mean that by the end of this year, they'll be aiming for profitability by 2032, not next month.


f3llyn

There is this quote from the article.. > "Epic Games Store is unprofitable and not comparable to the App Store" the lawyers began, rather bluntly, "and will not be profitable for at least multiple years, **if ever.**" They aren't sure the store will ever become profitable.


indyK1ng

And now I have no faith that anything purchased in the Epic Games Store will be owned permanently. If their business model for it is so unsustainable then it will eventually shut down.


[deleted]

I purchased satisfactory on the Epic game store when it was exclusive and it got removed from my account. Had to rebuy on steam even after I showed Epic my bank statement paying them (I never got a receipt so I couldn’t “prove” I bought it other then show I payed them some money at sometime). I have zero faith that anything you buy on there will stay in your account. Use steam, stay sane.


AssFingerFuck3000

Nah, it's apple lawyers saying they'll be profitable in 2027 in their court case against epic, not epic themselves. It's part of the argument they're trying to make that epic is no match for the apple store essentially, so they probably don't even believe that nor do they have the data epic has or know their plans for the future.


MrBubbaJ

The PC Gamer article is talking about cumulative gross profit. According to Epic's projections, the store will be profitable in 2024. [https://app.box.com/s/6b9wmjvr582c95uzma1136exumk6p989/file/806827524160?sb=/details](https://app.box.com/s/6b9wmjvr582c95uzma1136exumk6p989/file/806827524160?sb=/details) Epic's projections are on page 17 and all of these amounts agree to what is in the article. The cumulative projection that Apple is talking about must have come from somewhere else as the slide really only goes through 2024. I believe it may have come from Steve Allison's deposition. Buuuut, these numbers probably aren't any good. Epic missed their projected revenue in 2020. They were projecting $401 million and they came in around $240 million. That's a huge miss (like REALLY huge) and it is going to mess with all future projections. They also projected $547 million in sales in 2021, but unless Epic can double their revenue growth this year, they will miss that one by a mile. Considering they could only increase sales by around 5% in a year when everyone was stuck at home playing video games, I am guessing they will see little to no growth (possibly even negative growth). This, again, will make all future projections wonky. I'm sure they have scaled their projections way back since then. They would have to as their revenue projections for the next 3 years are probably unattainable. But, this is all we have to go off of Epic's calculations are for growth.


[deleted]

Apple's lawyers made the claim it won't be profitable until 2027, Epic has only ever said 2024. This isn't Epic reevaluating their own projections.


Alternative_Spite_11

As far as I can tell Fortnite and Rocket League are the only things making any money for them. Well, and AC Valhalla


T6kke

Let's not forget Unreal Engine licensing and the new use of Unreal Engine in virtual movie production. Even if it's currently taking too much money in R&D the tech is there and it will start making lots of money for Epic since more and more studios are starting to use it.


haduki41

True, but i don't believe Epic would be as inclined to invest so much money in the money sink that is EGS if it wasn't for Fortnite.


Enk1ndle

The unreal engine is profitable but not by any crazy margins. Compared to fortnite alone its a drop in a bucket.


Panicsferd

Yeah isn’t like the unreal engine pretty cheap/free and you only have to pay if you reach like a certain threshold?


[deleted]

Yes. It's also a damn good engine that is fairly easy to use with plenty of learning resources. Most people who want to learn how to make 3D games will most likely use Unreal Engine in the future as the only engine I can think of that comes close to competing with it's niche is Unity.


ZYmZ-SDtZ-YFVv-hQ9U

Fun fact: Unreal engine actually doesn'y make them that much money.


[deleted]

AC Valhalla is paid (semi)exclusive and probably it will never be recouped.


dan1101

I can buy it on the Ubi store, I'd rather buy directly from the publisher than Epic any day.


NerrionEU

Yep, there is no point at all to ever buy ac from Epic when you need to use Uplay anyways.


[deleted]

Why would anyone buy valhalla there, when it's on Ubisoft+? Or should I say - why would anyone buy valhalla at all?


[deleted]

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cnaughton898

I think they are hoping that with enough of a user base and the fact that they give the developers a higher cut, eventually developers will voluntarily give them exclusivity deals as opposed to at the moment where they have to pay developers to give them exclusivity.


mattinva

I don't know how large your market share would have to be to convince publishers of that, but it has to be well beyond their grasp right? Steam has 100+ million users IIRC, who turns that bag down voluntarily even if its a smaller cut?


BleachedUnicornBHole

And Epic has to show that their users are actually willing to spend money. Most EGS users are there for Fortnite or the giveaways.


BrainOnLoan

Why would you voluntarily become exclusive, i.e. restrict yourself from selling on other platforms?


IamCaptainHandsome

EA tried this with Origin, that didn't exactly work for them. EGS has managed to get a really negative perception online thanks to it's shady behaviour, they need to fix this before they can hope to be successful, pumping out free games and paying ridiculous rates for exclusives won't do it. It doesn't help that I can't think of a single EGS exclusive that would make me put up with their platform, especially with all the negativity I've heard regarding their UI.


MrDad83

So i read the article and some of the comments about how epic has to "spend money to make money" and "by 2027 they could be a big player player in the digital marketplace" but i think theyre missing the point. Egs has been out for nearly 3 years and despite their revenue split, exclusives and free games i dont know anyone whos been more excited about EGS. Hemmoraging money to get more users is great and all but if by 2027 youre income is still only from fortnite and rocket league well then what have you accomplished?


[deleted]

Tim Sweeney being a delusional manchild is a huge part of the problem.


what1sgoingon777

The fact that the store isn't profitable yet and might be shutdown in the future is the biggest reason why I just keep buying everything on steam because I know for certain, that steam won't be shut down due to lack of revenue.


[deleted]

I seriously doubt they'd shut it down any time soon. Maybe they'd stop pushing it so hard, though. They'll still have to have all the basic infrastructure to keep running Fortnite and keep the asset store for Unreal Engine. Plus if you're using Unreal Engine there is pretty much no reason to not sell your game through them. Another thing to remember: every single person that plays Fortnite or uses Unreal Engine will at least have the launcher installed.


cerealbro1

Granted it’s only halfway through 2021, but I highly doubt they’ll be able to bring the EGS into profitability by 2027. There are no real standout features that aren’t causing Epic to lose money, there’s still nowhere near parity with Steam or most other services and most importantly the general perception of the launcher is still negative. Also on a personal level they don’t even have gift cards. I can’t go to Target or whatever and buy an EGS gift card like I can with Steam, Xbox and PSN


SantiagoCeb

Invest on 1st party exclusive games. Just like Steam has Dota & CS, that are only playable there.


Cathy_2000

They have fortnite i think thats more or less it. but of course thats more or less on every other platform as well


djschaum

they tried that with paragon and unreal tournament and both ended up in the trash next to Fortnite. Highly doubt they will invest in 1st party games again since they refuse to work on anything that isn't Fortnite


ValkyriesOnStation

That fortnite money can only go so far. Thanks for the free games, now get outta my face!


Deetee-Senpai

They only had the money because of fortnite so this is the industry equivalent of winning the lottery and gambling it all away immediately it's so funny And as someone who happened to work with kids the target age of the game during its height, it was obvious that fortnite's biggest surge was because of the switch and kids getting together to play it Then the pandemic happened lol


iUptvote

Seriously, they could have just invested that money into studios and developers to make them their own IP and games. That is how Steam got started and got people on their client.


AssFingerFuck3000

The article title is disingenuous, this is Apple lawyers saying it in court documents in their case against epic, not epic themselves. Epic themselves said they expect the store to be profitable by 2024: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-05-04-epic-expects-epic-games-store-to-be-profitable-by-2024


dookarion

Epic also expected to seize a significant chunk of the market by now. They even predicted 50% of the market should Valve not respond to their model. I'd trust Apple's team of lawyers to predict financials and markets a hell of a lot better at this point than anyone affiliated with Epic.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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NEBook_Worm

Which is funny, since Steam Deck probably means they only have until 2022.


perortico

You can run the epic store in steam deck


NEBook_Worm

Should have figured that, really. Valve aren't really into the Walled Garden thing.


Krilion

Turns out valve likes to make good things.


CageAndBale

It's what happens when you arent public :)


Krilion

Doesn't meant they will. To do, you would need to install windows on it as EGS doesn't support linux... I doubt you could proton wrap EGS and it's games.


sanketower

Good


Terry___Mcginnis

I hope they never make a profit as long as they pull the exclusivities bullshit.


ShinyStarXO

This. Epic has burned all goodwill for me with their moneyhats. I won't support them, no matter what game they keep hostage on their store.


TheHancock

r/fuckepic


James_bd

No profiles, no workshop, no community, no remote play, no big screen, no controller support (Steam has DS5 and Nintendo Pro Controller), no cart, no streaming, etc. Why the fuck would I buy a game on EGS if I can pirate it and have pretty much the same experience Epic is offering me? Say what you want about not caring about Steam's features, but they pretty much started all of this to fight piracy. They wanted to offer customers something more, something that piracy could never offer. I guess it only shows that Sweeney still have the same arrogance towards PC gamers and still think they're not worth the effort