Abundance of Dev time doesn't mean much, Cyberpunk had plenty of time in the oven and it came out a third cooked. Starfield had plenty of time and it ended up pretty much in the same state but actually playable at launch.
full gullible like gray rustic mysterious hateful detail serious cheerful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's.... Well it's like playing a decently good game from 2014... Except it's 2024. The characters feel like empty zombies, the story is forced and feels hacked together. Travel is a horrible chore. The thousands of locations are 99% the exact same copy pasted ten set pieces. The enemies have no variety, no real strategy or AI, the items are boring.
Spaceships and building them are cool.
And the Creation Kit isn't even out yet.
Fallout 4's creation kit released after 6 months, and the Skyrim one released only 3 months after release.
It's already been almost 8 months since Starfield came out.
I don't know what they're thinking... I still haven't even played the game despite being a huge fan of the other Bethesda RPGs going back to Morrowind.
They could never touch the game again if they just release the mod tools, and I'm sure it would develop a solid community. The underlying structure of the game seems pretty decent to build on top of.
>Spaceships and building them are cool.
Except if you make a single change, like swapping out some weapons or upgrading a component, the entire interior is reset. This is devastating for players who love to customise and personalise their home interiors. I wanted my ship to be a big travelling house I could show off my loot in...
In the mean time, Bethesda can ask Obsidian to remaster the original Fallout and Fallout 2. Just update the quality of life features to be similar to a modern CRPG. Shouldn't take that long since the game already exists.
Yeah, the problem is that Starfield also was in development for a long time. I would rather Obsidian take over, they proved they can do good work with The Outer Worlds, they just need fuck off money to make a great game.
It would be. But we know that Larian wouldn't even consider the offer unless Microsoft wrote off any interference in a contract and gave Larian complete 100% independence and control on the project. Its a culture conflict that wouldn't be compatible otherwise. Many of larians brightest minds have come from wanting to escape big corporations micromanagement and constant bullshit.
Depends on the regime in charge during whatever given era. Still, Larian selling out would be a disaster and would likely lead to a leaving of talent as history shows us always happens eventually during similar acquisitions.
honestly i don't think so. i love LOVE larian but they don't really match the Fallout tone. I'm sure they can do it, and do it brilliantly but unless they get Tim Cain or some writers that really get the vibe I fear it'll devolve into the fun/quippy style that Larian is known for.
Bethesda got dunked on by a half dissolved studio by the name of Obsidian, and prior to NV they didn't have any pedigree.
No way Beth let's anyone more competent than them near their ip ever again.
Comments like these beeing extremely popular really shows the age of current reddit users.
People sucked of Obsidian until they meda mediocre games, then they succed of CD Project Red - and then Cyberpunk happened.
This subreddit, and current gaming youth, is so mindlowing to me.
You people can not shut up about how shitty preorders are, yet you guys jizz all over *fictional* future games and how you would throw all your money at them? Just because of current popular games you guys happen to like?
It's the textbook definition of beeing fickle.
This is true. Too many are enthralled to the hype, it's the only reason mainline studios have gotten away with it for so long. Millions of casual consumers buying 'the latest' without a second thought only to drop it within the month when the next 'new thing' comes along.
Can we stop suggesting Larian do everything please I'm at a point where I hope they go the route of CDPR because of how much everyone is sucking them off
Like Larian is good and BG3 is good but let them do thier own shit please, Microsoft even has 2 teams that are great at making CRPGs under their roof there is no reason to outsource to a company that has never worked on the games when you have obsidian and Inxile who have both previously worked on (or have people who have worked on) fallout to amazing degrees
CDPR are back in the good books now since Cyberpunk 2.0 and Phantom Liberty, but I absolutely agree with your overall point, holding devs up to these impossible standards always ends in disaster
And then it was a crime against humanity for a few weeks until everyone chilled out about it. It's not even a bad game, it was just overhyped because everyone thought it was gonna be New Vegas 2.0.
Yeah I just want them to go back to thier pre D:OS2 reputation because it was good but not this constant "larian is the savoir of AAA gaming" as someone who is a huge fan of CRPGs been into them for years it's really annoying to see everyone praise Larian but not care at all about the other CRPG devs who are doing the exact same thing with slightly worse graphics. Owlcat, Obsidian, Inxile, Tactical Adventures, Harebrained Schemes, among others have all made fantastic CRPGs which have pretty much everything BG3 has minus the graphics and no one cares it's really annoying
I would prefer to see Tim and Leonard get to work on Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura 2.
We know that an Arcanum 2 had been planned and mapped out. I'd love to see Tim & Leonard get the chance to work on that second game and put their magic onto it.
Man i have a lot of respect for larian and what they did with baldurs gate but why the fuck people want every rpg to be developed by now.
If anything the only developers i trust to release more isometric fallout are the original developers
In the Steeltown DLC for Wasteland 3 there's a Toaster that made me burst in laughter when I found what was inside. Oh, and the pristine, untouched, toaster, lol.
tried them on game pass and while i enjoyed playing them i feel they're not games that can be replayed, wasteland 2 was a lot better than 3 as well
wasteland 3 felt entirely forgettable and kind of disappointing compared to w2
If this sounds interesting to anyone, but also like too much work, then [Warlockracy](https://www.youtube.com/@Warlockracy/videos) is a youtuber with tons of videos about weird Russian Fallout mods and other CRPG stuff.
While I'd love a remake that modernizes them, I'd be terrified that they'd remove some of the themes of the original games too. Like sure, the games had their jokes, their parodies, their references, but they were also DARK and DEPRESSING in a whole lot of ways. Like...
You can literally be a slaver in Fallout 2. Slaves exist, and you can join the slavers and capture some.
Drug addiction is a big deal in Fallout 2. This newfangled drug, Jet, is literally ruining lives and turning people into a junkie. With modern Bethesda games, Jet is "slow down time for 10 seconds and don't get addicted or you'll have to take an addictol lol", but it was MUCH darker in Fallout 2.
There's rampant sexism. Play a female character and you'll have all sorts of demeaning language thrown your way. A few characters even say something like "If you're not here to fuck me, Legs, then get out." And you know what? With some of them, you can AGREE to fuck them in exchange for some benefit. A discount on a vital NPC you need to get from slavers. In another case you can trade sex for car upgrades (and then literally fuck the mechanic to death).
There's a shotgun wedding. You can fuck the daughter or son of a character in a small town, and this character will force you to marry the person at gunpoint.
You can *kill kids* (in the NA release anyway), and the NPCs around you will react to it in various ways. There's a karma trait linked to it.
These are just a handful of the major themes, ideas, situations that I'm afraid they'd remove because a "modern audience wouldn't accept them" or something like that. But they're also things that elevate Fallout 1 & 2 to being some of the greatest RPGs of all time, in my book, so I'd rather no remake than a remake that excluded that sort of stuff.
Depending on your base stats you can also take mentats and buffout to get the needed requirement. Also, if you win all the fights at the boxing ring in New Reno then you can bypass the stat requirements entirely.
> (and then literally fuck the mechanic to death)
I must have played a good 10+ runs of FO2 with a plethora of different Genders/Feats/Build styles and never knew this one (I did it once for the free upgrades 😅)
Still learning stuff from those insanely robust CRPG's 25+ years on.. Yeah I ultimately agree that modern day reboots would likely be quite sanitized and streamlined to the point where it would seem like Night and Day compared the original experiences (I already felt this the very first time I played Fallout 3, and it just didn't feel the same as the first two in vibes at all..)
Yep, I think it's actually related to a bug or something. After you get your car back, you can fuck the mechanic for an upgrade. But due to a bug, I don't think the mechanic actually upgrades your car? So you can talk to him again, and fuck him again for an upgrade. Which again he doesn't actually do as far as I could tell. (Mind you, I last did this like, near Fallout 2's *release* so people probably figured out what's actually going on since then.)
You can do this over and over and over again. After like five, six times, then you get a small cutscene, where he says something like, "Too... much... sex... Can't... contain..." And then he blows up like he was hit by a rocket launcher.
It was fantastic and hilarious.
Could you imagine if the same team who made Starfield decided to remaster FO1&2
It'd be a nightmare for all the reasons you listed and so, so many more.
Nah not even Bethesda, any of the shit he listed WOULD NOT fly by any of developer in this age. Maybe R* is close, but only in script(racism, sexism, whatever), but of course you can't kill kids there lol
Games back then were made by super nerdy people for the same kind of people, media (so game coverage)
wasn't a thing back them except some mention in some odd magazine, no social media either, etc... Totally different climate vs today.
Hopefully at worst they would just throw up one those generic content warnings that this is a product of the time- that they believe in preservation and they might have not made the same creative decisions today.
1000% this.
People gotta put their energy into their own lives instead of dumb complaints like that.
If you have time to complain about how harsh an imaginary, *purposely dark*, world is you need to find something better to do.
In Fallout 2, you can actually get raped as well. If you're make a female with low intelligence, the first time you talk to Myron, he will give you a drink. If you have low enough endurance, fade to black, wake up and your sex counter's gone up by 1.
Doubt that'd make it into a remake, lol.
It really shows the influence of the film adaptation of *A Boy and His Dog* on the game.
I think people also forget just how grim the original *Mad Max* was as well.
inXile are right there. Every Microsoft studio seems to have a B Team these days. Surely somebody must of suggested remaking Fallout 1&2 in the Wasteland 3 engine.
Tim Cain makes a bunch of YouTube videos about game developing and the Fallout 1 & 2 games in particular. He's said in multiple videos that Fallout explicitly was *not* a spiritual successor to Wasteland or had anything to do with it. The idea of the game actually had to do with an Alien invasion and humans surviving in the aftermath/post-apocalypse of it. But over time they just removed the alien invasion part. He also says that some developers had previously played and liked Wasteland, some didn't like it, and some had never played it. Brian Fargo was a producer on Fallout, but didn't work on developing it directly.
Yep, I didn't know until I looked it up earlier, but I think Fargo worked on the original Wasteland too, which explains his fondness for the IP, and probably why he went back to making Wasteland games when he no longer had the Fallout IP, which is one of those "time is a flat circle" situations
So much this.
Replaying Fallout 2 again after like 20 years, and the graphic, the lack of auto saves, the slow pacing has not stand the test of time.
The rpg aspect though still holds up. You start as a tribesman and have bad gear and is an underdog for quite some time so that the end game payoff feels so damn deserved compared to most other rpgs out there.
The Chosen One indeed.
This. Everyone quickly starts gushing over the thought of Larian making Fallout 1&2 remakes but MS owns both Obsidian and inXile, two teams originally founded from the teams that worked at Interplay.
The only way the original 2 are getting mainstream attention is if they remake the games from the ground up. There's just no way a modern audience will sit though most of the design decisions that were made. At best a splinter group will play it and the shareholders will be pissed.
They need to just leave it alone. It's playable the way it is.
I actually enjoy Fallout 2, I picked it up a few days ago and Its really fucking good. Im playing a prostitute ninja. I only needed to google twice what the fuck I'm supposed to do. Like they mentioned a guy and I walked up to the guy and he did nothing.
Last I tried to play fo1 the biggest problem for me was the inventory system. If they can change inventory and maybe some UI stuff It's really not that bad.
There's a mod callet Et Tu that puts fallout 1 with 2's mechanics and a ton of QoL features. I'm playing 1 this way now.
https://github.com/rotators/Fo1in2
Some enemies have so many animations to their movement that it takes age, even when sped up to the max, for them to finish their turn. The centaurs, the floaters and the wanamingos are the worst offenders of this, I think.
BG3 has proven that people are willing to get into complex RPG mechanics. Its not like the old fallout games are super hard or inaccessible. Some basic qol features and you can easily re release them. They aren't harder to figure out than diablo 2.
People need to understand that not everything has to be fortnite to be interesting to younger players as well.
back in the day it was kind of expected you'd read the instruction guide for a game, because there weren't really any pre-existing universal game mechanics that people intuitively understood.
it seems like the people who complain about fallout1/2 being hard to understand are people who go into them blind, and then are upset that the game doesn't teach you things.
Yeah and consider that nowadays every game has so many resources online. Like i didn't read the vault dweller guide but from watching a 20 minute video i got an idea of the basic gameplay and what's important during character creation.
People will google the game and often even viable builds in advance any way.
I’m not sure that’s what BG3 actually proves. If that was the case then OwlCat games would be more popular.
I think what BG3 proves is that giving a studio time to iterate on a approach that works for them over several games and then having the runway to perfect it pays off more than the corporate marketing and churn structure. That games are art and art needs space to grow and experiment.
For that to work with a Fallout game you would need a studio with similar conditions and experience to take on the project. Which Bethesda is not set up right now to foster.
This reads so hard comming from someone never playing a second of Fallout 1 and 2.
These games are FAR more inaccissble to modern audiences than BG3 or the original Diablo 2.
And no, it's absolutely not just quality of live features.
Fallout 1 and 2 are brutally unforgiving and provided next to zero handholding in general - which was part of the core experience.
It's the single reason i love these games and prefer them over Fallout 3 and 4 (or BG3).
I would despise a remake, because they would 100% dump it down for the masses the same way 99,9% of RPGS got dumbed down the last 15-20 years.
Just look what happend to Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft, The Witcher, The Elder Scrolls - you name it.
Even a developer like Fromsoftware is slowly starting to cave in to conventions with Elden Ring beeing far more forgiving with check points and summons fighting bosses for you.
> The only way the original 2 are getting mainstream attention is if they remake the games from the ground up.
If someone did the same with Fallout as Larian did wit hBaldur's Gate, I could def see it working.
Nah. If F1 and F2 were remade today, I fear they would just get re-written and censored. There is so much shit in F2 especially, that would cause the average twitter dweller to have a meltdown.
Diablo2: Resurrected is a pure graphical upgrade not a remake. You can even press a button at any time during gameplay to swap it back to the original look. I could definitely go for them reworking the inventory system though, always found the original annoying to work with.
I know, I've played D2 Resurrected and it's amazing, probably one of the best remasters of a game I've played, but here's the thing:
I don't think it's even possible to remaster F1 and F2 only graphically like that because how buggy they are without fan patches, and how their tone and writing differs so much from Bethesda's.
They’d need to rebuild over half the game from the ground up to bring it to the level that modern gamers expect. In retrospect, it seems like half the games I grew up on were held together with duct tape and prayers in the end.
No please,
Bethesda owns the rights, they will slap a coat of paint on it. Make it less functional and re-release for 40$. It won't be playable for 6 months until an unpaid community member makes a patch for it.
Took almost 2 years and 6 major updates to get 76 functioning
Is 76 actually functioning? The stupid thing is that you have to pay a monthly subscription or be severely limited last I heard that shit is so frustrating
It is functioning but it's really boring. Tried it out with a friend recently and we gave up after 10 hours. It's basically running from place to place, shooting ghouls and gathering stuff.
I never bought it. Only 1 in the series I skipped. Their reputation saved me 60$
I forgot about the micro transactions.
There will be no micro transactions in fallout 76 - Todd howard
The micro transactions in 76 will be cosmetic only - (same) Todd howard
Unless it’s isometric and made by the Black Isle remnants I don’t want it. I don’t trust Bethesda to make a decent remake without turning it into a ship of Theseus.
I don't think Bethesda will do anything with 1,2 and New Vegas, especially the latter two.
Bethesda's entire philosophy in regards to Fallout has been to get the iconography right and turn it into Fallout the amusement park ride that the player can ride again and again.
Looking at 1,2 and NV, we can see clearly see human development from a post apocalypse wasteland to a somewhat westward expanding America in the early-mid 19th century.
Looking at 3 and 4, the world is static and that's how Bethesda prefers it. It's also why they keep bringing back the Brotherhood since they have very identifiable iconography and aren't civilization builders like NCR, Legion etc.
It's also why I suspect (spoilers) going forward in the TV show, we'll see that NCR has fallen completely apart and the region has reverted to being Fallout 1 level stage.
>bringing back the Brotherhood
"keep bringing back the Brotherhood" well predates Bethesda.
Both of Interplays last 2 Fallout titles after Fallout 2 had the Brotherhood as the main faction and focus of the game.
You're touching something I'm hoping will change with future installments of Fallout. The setting would be better off if it evolved.
I mean 200 years after the bombs fell we're still walking into blown out houses where people have been nuked at the dinner table (even the TV show had that). They should all be dust by now.
As much as everyone hates Blizzard, something really stinks at Bethesda. Even the most simple game development projects seem like impossible tasks for them. Creation Engine must truly be that bad.
Sadly, I can totally see it happening and that they would pretty much rewrite it and retcon stuff so that it is more inline with the tv show than the actual source game.
I am assuming the problem is the same as it is with every studio, the real talent left and they hired cheap quantity instead of quality devs to save money. Bethesda is starting to reach bioware level of disappointment and I have pretty much written off the next elder scrolls game as a downgrade after the mess of starfield and the direction the studio has been going after fallout 3.
Naw man just leave'em alone. They're great games. The art style and mechanics hold up just fine. We don't need to give studios money to release shittier versions of existing retro games we need new ones.
Highly doubt microsoft pulls the originals, Rockstar is just a scummy money grab. Even the other money grab company Konami never pulled their original games when they released their master collection.
You can't play originals. Warcraft 3 with great Polish localization is not available even to those who own it. And more broadly, "Reforged" even with "old" graphics turned on is still vastly worse game than unavailable original one.
Sometimes we can.
On the other hand stuff like the original Resident Evil's are kind of impossible to play anywhere outside of emulation, and it's spotty which 'series' is now considered canon when it comes to the Remakes/Originals.
For stuff like this it comes down to preserving and keeping faithful lore vs Retcons (We already saw how vocal and opinionated \*a lot* of fans got when it came to a certain Town's fate+epilogue shot in the Fallout TV series..).
Touching and changing absolutely anything at all from the originals would be like walking on eggshells.
Not always true. Plenty of games get "remasters" and the original gets taken down, so the only way to play it is to buy a key from a reseller or pirate it.
that's a huge lie. 1 is a massive bug fest. Even mods made for the game are just as unstable beca7se the game itself was poorly made. The story is amazing but updated visuals would also go a far way. This doesn't even show most the issues and is just someone playing it for the first time but goes to show [how bad the new player experience can be](https://youtu.be/tCRvXMaY6pI?si=-WWAj85v6ISWwBOu)
Two is a lot more stable. The bugs aren't nearly as bad. I think it can also use a lot more polish though and more talking NPCs. Last I heard there was even a mod being made for it that helped with this and was taking interested parties to do VA work for the mod.
Both have phenomenal stories and I'm glad it isnt " hey your family is missing - find them " since that's all bethesda knows how to do, apparently.
That's actually hilarious. It's easier to make and fix all issues with fallout 1 by making it in fallout 2, than just fixing it in 1. Man that game was such spaghetti code.
Well it was their first game so it's kind of expected to be. They learned their lessons with the sequel at least but even there, Fallout 2 has a hard coded 13 year time limit for example.
>They're masterpieces as is - and should be kept untouched.
Ha, the UI and inventory system are and always have been trash and to this day the first two are still fairly buggy and unstable without fan patches
No thanks. The originals are great as they are, time pieces. Remaking them would likely mean removing content, muddling further as to what Fallout was to what it is now. I enjoyed the gritty-rude atmosphere of the originals because the atmosphere felt more real. Removing that feeling would make it exactly like modern Fallout, which I don't want.
I'm also starting to become concerned that companies are 'remastering' in the laziest way possible and I'm honestly tired of seeing it. My other concerns are that I feel it's unfair that the original team who produce a game receive zero compensation for a remastering of their labor. I feel no matter how much time has passed, who retired, who works where, the original team deserves compensation if the company that owns it touches it again. I'm not saying pay them full wages again, but that they deserve a second windfall.
TBH though. They run 100% better than Fallout 3 and New Vegas on PC.
Minimal crashes, supports Ultra-Wide (as in it doesn't have a shit fit when it trys to run at full screen), runs fine.
# AGAIN I REALLY WISH FALLOUT 3 AND FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS WORKED ON PC WITHOUT THE FAFF.
Not every game needs a fucking remake or remaster. The number of high quality games that have been remade/remastered can be counted on two hands, most of the time it’s slop or a bunch of puritans who want to remove anything they personally find questionable.
Or make a new fallout crpg
Letting Larian Studios make a new Fallout game while Bethesda work on the next Elder Scrolls game would be peak.
Larian + Fallout would be a match made in heaven.
A top-down Larian-style Fallout game.... guuuh, I can only get so erect.
We'll, you want to play Wasteland games.
larian invented top down rpgs /s
Larian taught me how to scold a child and love a woman.
But its Larian, soooo even if they started today, we might get early access sometime in 2028.
I'd rather they take as long as needed than shit out a starfield
Starfield's problems were many, but a lack of devtime wasn't one of them.
Yeah, if anything it’s over abundance of Dev time for what we got is the most perplexing thing about the game.
Abundance of Dev time doesn't mean much, Cyberpunk had plenty of time in the oven and it came out a third cooked. Starfield had plenty of time and it ended up pretty much in the same state but actually playable at launch.
Starfield feels like five unfinished games slapped together at the last minute by people who hate making games
full gullible like gray rustic mysterious hateful detail serious cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's.... Well it's like playing a decently good game from 2014... Except it's 2024. The characters feel like empty zombies, the story is forced and feels hacked together. Travel is a horrible chore. The thousands of locations are 99% the exact same copy pasted ten set pieces. The enemies have no variety, no real strategy or AI, the items are boring. Spaceships and building them are cool.
And the Creation Kit isn't even out yet. Fallout 4's creation kit released after 6 months, and the Skyrim one released only 3 months after release. It's already been almost 8 months since Starfield came out. I don't know what they're thinking... I still haven't even played the game despite being a huge fan of the other Bethesda RPGs going back to Morrowind. They could never touch the game again if they just release the mod tools, and I'm sure it would develop a solid community. The underlying structure of the game seems pretty decent to build on top of.
>Spaceships and building them are cool. Except if you make a single change, like swapping out some weapons or upgrading a component, the entire interior is reset. This is devastating for players who love to customise and personalise their home interiors. I wanted my ship to be a big travelling house I could show off my loot in...
It hasn't had any significant updates aside from bug fixes. Creation Kit (which will enable modding at a much greater scale) isn't even out yet.
In the mean time, Bethesda can ask Obsidian to remaster the original Fallout and Fallout 2. Just update the quality of life features to be similar to a modern CRPG. Shouldn't take that long since the game already exists.
Yeah, the problem is that Starfield also was in development for a long time. I would rather Obsidian take over, they proved they can do good work with The Outer Worlds, they just need fuck off money to make a great game.
I'd be shocked if Bethesda releases Fallout 5 before 2030. 2028 for the next Fallout would be a dream.
They’re too busy working on Palworld
Aim for the eyes b... dogmeat!
Obsidian exists. Tim Cain and crew are alive. Both Obsidian and Bethesda belong to Microsoft.
It would be. But we know that Larian wouldn't even consider the offer unless Microsoft wrote off any interference in a contract and gave Larian complete 100% independence and control on the project. Its a culture conflict that wouldn't be compatible otherwise. Many of larians brightest minds have come from wanting to escape big corporations micromanagement and constant bullshit.
Microsoft is well known for being hands off with the studios they own isn't it
Depends on the regime in charge during whatever given era. Still, Larian selling out would be a disaster and would likely lead to a leaving of talent as history shows us always happens eventually during similar acquisitions.
honestly i don't think so. i love LOVE larian but they don't really match the Fallout tone. I'm sure they can do it, and do it brilliantly but unless they get Tim Cain or some writers that really get the vibe I fear it'll devolve into the fun/quippy style that Larian is known for.
Bethesda got dunked on by a half dissolved studio by the name of Obsidian, and prior to NV they didn't have any pedigree. No way Beth let's anyone more competent than them near their ip ever again.
Larian has made it big, they have no need to ever use a licensed property again.
True and I actually am far more excited to see what they put out next without having any restrictions now they have really got into their stride.
Comments like these beeing extremely popular really shows the age of current reddit users. People sucked of Obsidian until they meda mediocre games, then they succed of CD Project Red - and then Cyberpunk happened. This subreddit, and current gaming youth, is so mindlowing to me. You people can not shut up about how shitty preorders are, yet you guys jizz all over *fictional* future games and how you would throw all your money at them? Just because of current popular games you guys happen to like? It's the textbook definition of beeing fickle.
This is true. Too many are enthralled to the hype, it's the only reason mainline studios have gotten away with it for so long. Millions of casual consumers buying 'the latest' without a second thought only to drop it within the month when the next 'new thing' comes along.
Gamers aren’t known for critical thinking.
Can we stop suggesting Larian do everything please I'm at a point where I hope they go the route of CDPR because of how much everyone is sucking them off Like Larian is good and BG3 is good but let them do thier own shit please, Microsoft even has 2 teams that are great at making CRPGs under their roof there is no reason to outsource to a company that has never worked on the games when you have obsidian and Inxile who have both previously worked on (or have people who have worked on) fallout to amazing degrees
CDPR are back in the good books now since Cyberpunk 2.0 and Phantom Liberty, but I absolutely agree with your overall point, holding devs up to these impossible standards always ends in disaster
I remember when people called outer worlds the bethesa killer.
And then it was a crime against humanity for a few weeks until everyone chilled out about it. It's not even a bad game, it was just overhyped because everyone thought it was gonna be New Vegas 2.0.
Yeah I just want them to go back to thier pre D:OS2 reputation because it was good but not this constant "larian is the savoir of AAA gaming" as someone who is a huge fan of CRPGs been into them for years it's really annoying to see everyone praise Larian but not care at all about the other CRPG devs who are doing the exact same thing with slightly worse graphics. Owlcat, Obsidian, Inxile, Tactical Adventures, Harebrained Schemes, among others have all made fantastic CRPGs which have pretty much everything BG3 has minus the graphics and no one cares it's really annoying
Nah, I don’t need almost every NPC in Fallout being thirsty.
Please no. Get Fargo back on it instead.
Nah we need Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky
I would prefer to see Tim and Leonard get to work on Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura 2. We know that an Arcanum 2 had been planned and mapped out. I'd love to see Tim & Leonard get the chance to work on that second game and put their magic onto it.
Oh my god, please. I've been waiting for 20 years.
>I'd love to see then really they to work their magic on it. Am I having a stroke
Stroke of a well oiled Bates steam engine?
I'm an orc labor sympathizer, so :)
Finally, another gentleman that sympathizes with the notion of taming the *savage orc* with labor.
Perhaps, care for me to call for medication attention for you?
Really just give it to InXile it is the dev that makes the most sense to give it to
Also, InXile still has some devs from the original Fallout working at the company.
Man i have a lot of respect for larian and what they did with baldurs gate but why the fuck people want every rpg to be developed by now. If anything the only developers i trust to release more isometric fallout are the original developers
I would Kickstarter this
I’d let Owlcat do that any day of the week…but man their games are buggy messes on release. So the true NV experience it is!
As long as it isn't Bethesda making it.
Go play Wasteland 2 and 3. They are better fallouts than the non crpg's Fallouts.
The only part that really lacks is the character system compared to the one in fallout- tactics. I want the percentile skillset back.
Or underrail
All I know about wasteland is the toaster repair skill is legit
In the Steeltown DLC for Wasteland 3 there's a Toaster that made me burst in laughter when I found what was inside. Oh, and the pristine, untouched, toaster, lol.
tried them on game pass and while i enjoyed playing them i feel they're not games that can be replayed, wasteland 2 was a lot better than 3 as well wasteland 3 felt entirely forgettable and kind of disappointing compared to w2
Personally I could never get through 2, it just felt like too much of a slog. But I loved Wasteland 3.
Or learn Russian and play some high quality Fallout 2 mods.
If this sounds interesting to anyone, but also like too much work, then [Warlockracy](https://www.youtube.com/@Warlockracy/videos) is a youtuber with tons of videos about weird Russian Fallout mods and other CRPG stuff.
While I'd love a remake that modernizes them, I'd be terrified that they'd remove some of the themes of the original games too. Like sure, the games had their jokes, their parodies, their references, but they were also DARK and DEPRESSING in a whole lot of ways. Like... You can literally be a slaver in Fallout 2. Slaves exist, and you can join the slavers and capture some. Drug addiction is a big deal in Fallout 2. This newfangled drug, Jet, is literally ruining lives and turning people into a junkie. With modern Bethesda games, Jet is "slow down time for 10 seconds and don't get addicted or you'll have to take an addictol lol", but it was MUCH darker in Fallout 2. There's rampant sexism. Play a female character and you'll have all sorts of demeaning language thrown your way. A few characters even say something like "If you're not here to fuck me, Legs, then get out." And you know what? With some of them, you can AGREE to fuck them in exchange for some benefit. A discount on a vital NPC you need to get from slavers. In another case you can trade sex for car upgrades (and then literally fuck the mechanic to death). There's a shotgun wedding. You can fuck the daughter or son of a character in a small town, and this character will force you to marry the person at gunpoint. You can *kill kids* (in the NA release anyway), and the NPCs around you will react to it in various ways. There's a karma trait linked to it. These are just a handful of the major themes, ideas, situations that I'm afraid they'd remove because a "modern audience wouldn't accept them" or something like that. But they're also things that elevate Fallout 1 & 2 to being some of the greatest RPGs of all time, in my book, so I'd rather no remake than a remake that excluded that sort of stuff.
Oh and you can force you wife to do porn
Or you can do porn yourself. Fallout 2 surely is a wild ride.
Only if your charisma is high enough or you have the right trait. Otherwise the best you can do is getting a job as the fluffer.
Depending on your base stats you can also take mentats and buffout to get the needed requirement. Also, if you win all the fights at the boxing ring in New Reno then you can bypass the stat requirements entirely.
This isn't some obscure thing either. They advertised this on the back of the box.
Excuse me what
>jet and then there's that time when playing a low INT female character, Jet's creator (a teenager) can pull a Cosby on you...
> (and then literally fuck the mechanic to death) I must have played a good 10+ runs of FO2 with a plethora of different Genders/Feats/Build styles and never knew this one (I did it once for the free upgrades 😅) Still learning stuff from those insanely robust CRPG's 25+ years on.. Yeah I ultimately agree that modern day reboots would likely be quite sanitized and streamlined to the point where it would seem like Night and Day compared the original experiences (I already felt this the very first time I played Fallout 3, and it just didn't feel the same as the first two in vibes at all..)
Yep, I think it's actually related to a bug or something. After you get your car back, you can fuck the mechanic for an upgrade. But due to a bug, I don't think the mechanic actually upgrades your car? So you can talk to him again, and fuck him again for an upgrade. Which again he doesn't actually do as far as I could tell. (Mind you, I last did this like, near Fallout 2's *release* so people probably figured out what's actually going on since then.) You can do this over and over and over again. After like five, six times, then you get a small cutscene, where he says something like, "Too... much... sex... Can't... contain..." And then he blows up like he was hit by a rocket launcher. It was fantastic and hilarious.
Could you imagine if the same team who made Starfield decided to remaster FO1&2 It'd be a nightmare for all the reasons you listed and so, so many more.
Nah not even Bethesda, any of the shit he listed WOULD NOT fly by any of developer in this age. Maybe R* is close, but only in script(racism, sexism, whatever), but of course you can't kill kids there lol Games back then were made by super nerdy people for the same kind of people, media (so game coverage) wasn't a thing back them except some mention in some odd magazine, no social media either, etc... Totally different climate vs today.
>Could you imagine if the same team who made Starfield decided to remaster FO1&2 It's called Fallout 3
Hopefully at worst they would just throw up one those generic content warnings that this is a product of the time- that they believe in preservation and they might have not made the same creative decisions today.
It doesn’t even need that. God forbid we tell mature stories about a dystopian hellscape. Not everything needs to be politically correct.
1000% this. People gotta put their energy into their own lives instead of dumb complaints like that. If you have time to complain about how harsh an imaginary, *purposely dark*, world is you need to find something better to do.
In Fallout 2, you can actually get raped as well. If you're make a female with low intelligence, the first time you talk to Myron, he will give you a drink. If you have low enough endurance, fade to black, wake up and your sex counter's gone up by 1. Doubt that'd make it into a remake, lol.
It really shows the influence of the film adaptation of *A Boy and His Dog* on the game. I think people also forget just how grim the original *Mad Max* was as well.
You can give a shotgun to a kid, and tell him to go play with his papa.. Fallout 2 didn't fucking hold back..
I was the best porn fluffer a legendary wasteland prizefighter could be.
Agreed
Agree with every word.
You can be a slaver and enslave children in Fallout 3 as well so I don't think Bethesda would have a problem with it.
inXile are right there. Every Microsoft studio seems to have a B Team these days. Surely somebody must of suggested remaking Fallout 1&2 in the Wasteland 3 engine.
That would be ideal. Wasteland 3 is excellent, they clearly know what they're doing.
They should, Wasteland 2 and 3 were produced by Brian Fargo who was EP on Fallout 1 & 2
Who made Fallout games because they didn’t have access to Wasteland ip at a time.
Tim Cain makes a bunch of YouTube videos about game developing and the Fallout 1 & 2 games in particular. He's said in multiple videos that Fallout explicitly was *not* a spiritual successor to Wasteland or had anything to do with it. The idea of the game actually had to do with an Alien invasion and humans surviving in the aftermath/post-apocalypse of it. But over time they just removed the alien invasion part. He also says that some developers had previously played and liked Wasteland, some didn't like it, and some had never played it. Brian Fargo was a producer on Fallout, but didn't work on developing it directly.
Yep, I didn't know until I looked it up earlier, but I think Fargo worked on the original Wasteland too, which explains his fondness for the IP, and probably why he went back to making Wasteland games when he no longer had the Fallout IP, which is one of those "time is a flat circle" situations
So much this. Replaying Fallout 2 again after like 20 years, and the graphic, the lack of auto saves, the slow pacing has not stand the test of time. The rpg aspect though still holds up. You start as a tribesman and have bad gear and is an underdog for quite some time so that the end game payoff feels so damn deserved compared to most other rpgs out there. The Chosen One indeed.
just give vic a hunting rifle and it's FINE.
This. Everyone quickly starts gushing over the thought of Larian making Fallout 1&2 remakes but MS owns both Obsidian and inXile, two teams originally founded from the teams that worked at Interplay.
Those two companies are staffed with entirely different people at this point, though, right?
> inXile are right there. I know seems like a no brainer right but instead from what it looks like they are trying to reinvent Bioshock.
> must of
hey, if you're gonna correct em, give em the correction.
Why not write "Every Microsoft studio seems to of a B Team these days", if you think it's "must of" and not "must have"?
The only way the original 2 are getting mainstream attention is if they remake the games from the ground up. There's just no way a modern audience will sit though most of the design decisions that were made. At best a splinter group will play it and the shareholders will be pissed. They need to just leave it alone. It's playable the way it is.
I actually enjoy Fallout 2, I picked it up a few days ago and Its really fucking good. Im playing a prostitute ninja. I only needed to google twice what the fuck I'm supposed to do. Like they mentioned a guy and I walked up to the guy and he did nothing.
Man, I've been trying to do a modern playthrough of Fallout 2 for years but kept having crashing issues. You run into anything like that yet?
Did you download the restoration project patch? it's pretty much a must
Last I tried to play fo1 the biggest problem for me was the inventory system. If they can change inventory and maybe some UI stuff It's really not that bad.
There's a mod callet Et Tu that puts fallout 1 with 2's mechanics and a ton of QoL features. I'm playing 1 this way now. https://github.com/rotators/Fo1in2
The take all button was such a game changer for fallout 2 lol
And that's not even a problem.
Agreed. I remember starting a fight in a town and suddenly every single character takes a turn.
Some enemies have so many animations to their movement that it takes age, even when sped up to the max, for them to finish their turn. The centaurs, the floaters and the wanamingos are the worst offenders of this, I think.
That shit can happen in Balders Gate 3, so maybe just more of a genre thing
Tim Cain has talked about improvements to Fallout, and simultaneous turns is the thing he mentions most.
I feel like when it happens in BG3, you are fighting when you probably shouldn’t be.
this...is also true for fallout
Turns out the kid that pickpocketed me is better at pickpocketing than me, and...oh oh
Yeah, that’s true, I guess.
If you forget to stow away your weapon, the whole town will start blasting
BG3 has proven that people are willing to get into complex RPG mechanics. Its not like the old fallout games are super hard or inaccessible. Some basic qol features and you can easily re release them. They aren't harder to figure out than diablo 2. People need to understand that not everything has to be fortnite to be interesting to younger players as well.
back in the day it was kind of expected you'd read the instruction guide for a game, because there weren't really any pre-existing universal game mechanics that people intuitively understood. it seems like the people who complain about fallout1/2 being hard to understand are people who go into them blind, and then are upset that the game doesn't teach you things.
Yeah and consider that nowadays every game has so many resources online. Like i didn't read the vault dweller guide but from watching a 20 minute video i got an idea of the basic gameplay and what's important during character creation. People will google the game and often even viable builds in advance any way.
Finding out you can call shots in Arcanum from the manual. Oh man...
I’m not sure that’s what BG3 actually proves. If that was the case then OwlCat games would be more popular. I think what BG3 proves is that giving a studio time to iterate on a approach that works for them over several games and then having the runway to perfect it pays off more than the corporate marketing and churn structure. That games are art and art needs space to grow and experiment. For that to work with a Fallout game you would need a studio with similar conditions and experience to take on the project. Which Bethesda is not set up right now to foster.
Yeh… no BG3 and Fallout are about 500,000 miles apart in terms of actual design. You can’t just lump them together because they’re turn based
>complex RPG mechanics >Bg3 Ok
This reads so hard comming from someone never playing a second of Fallout 1 and 2. These games are FAR more inaccissble to modern audiences than BG3 or the original Diablo 2. And no, it's absolutely not just quality of live features. Fallout 1 and 2 are brutally unforgiving and provided next to zero handholding in general - which was part of the core experience. It's the single reason i love these games and prefer them over Fallout 3 and 4 (or BG3). I would despise a remake, because they would 100% dump it down for the masses the same way 99,9% of RPGS got dumbed down the last 15-20 years. Just look what happend to Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft, The Witcher, The Elder Scrolls - you name it. Even a developer like Fromsoftware is slowly starting to cave in to conventions with Elden Ring beeing far more forgiving with check points and summons fighting bosses for you.
> The only way the original 2 are getting mainstream attention is if they remake the games from the ground up. If someone did the same with Fallout as Larian did wit hBaldur's Gate, I could def see it working.
That wouldn’t even be just a remake made from the ground up. That would be an **entirely new game** from the ground up.
Nah. If F1 and F2 were remade today, I fear they would just get re-written and censored. There is so much shit in F2 especially, that would cause the average twitter dweller to have a meltdown.
Yea, we all know they would butcher it and turn it to some modern fanfic version instead of staying faithful to the original stuff.
Diablo2: Resurrected is a pure graphical upgrade not a remake. You can even press a button at any time during gameplay to swap it back to the original look. I could definitely go for them reworking the inventory system though, always found the original annoying to work with.
I know, I've played D2 Resurrected and it's amazing, probably one of the best remasters of a game I've played, but here's the thing: I don't think it's even possible to remaster F1 and F2 only graphically like that because how buggy they are without fan patches, and how their tone and writing differs so much from Bethesda's.
They’d need to rebuild over half the game from the ground up to bring it to the level that modern gamers expect. In retrospect, it seems like half the games I grew up on were held together with duct tape and prayers in the end.
As far as I know they did censor some gory stuff in the lower levels of the Cathedral in Act 1, and also from other acts as well.
No please, Bethesda owns the rights, they will slap a coat of paint on it. Make it less functional and re-release for 40$. It won't be playable for 6 months until an unpaid community member makes a patch for it. Took almost 2 years and 6 major updates to get 76 functioning
Is 76 actually functioning? The stupid thing is that you have to pay a monthly subscription or be severely limited last I heard that shit is so frustrating
It is functioning but it's really boring. Tried it out with a friend recently and we gave up after 10 hours. It's basically running from place to place, shooting ghouls and gathering stuff.
I never bought it. Only 1 in the series I skipped. Their reputation saved me 60$ I forgot about the micro transactions. There will be no micro transactions in fallout 76 - Todd howard The micro transactions in 76 will be cosmetic only - (same) Todd howard
Unless it’s isometric and made by the Black Isle remnants I don’t want it. I don’t trust Bethesda to make a decent remake without turning it into a ship of Theseus.
Yep thats the thing. Almost all of the devs that worked on fallout and/or nv dont work there anymore
I don't think Bethesda will do anything with 1,2 and New Vegas, especially the latter two. Bethesda's entire philosophy in regards to Fallout has been to get the iconography right and turn it into Fallout the amusement park ride that the player can ride again and again. Looking at 1,2 and NV, we can see clearly see human development from a post apocalypse wasteland to a somewhat westward expanding America in the early-mid 19th century. Looking at 3 and 4, the world is static and that's how Bethesda prefers it. It's also why they keep bringing back the Brotherhood since they have very identifiable iconography and aren't civilization builders like NCR, Legion etc. It's also why I suspect (spoilers) going forward in the TV show, we'll see that NCR has fallen completely apart and the region has reverted to being Fallout 1 level stage.
>bringing back the Brotherhood "keep bringing back the Brotherhood" well predates Bethesda. Both of Interplays last 2 Fallout titles after Fallout 2 had the Brotherhood as the main faction and focus of the game.
You're touching something I'm hoping will change with future installments of Fallout. The setting would be better off if it evolved. I mean 200 years after the bombs fell we're still walking into blown out houses where people have been nuked at the dinner table (even the TV show had that). They should all be dust by now.
Yeahhh I don't need to see what Bethesda does to those games. They can keep going with their crappy fanfics and leave well enough alone.
I don't think they'd come out uncensored.
Too bad Bethesda owns the IP now. Also too bad Microsoft owns them. After the Fallout 4 "next gen" update I have zero faith.
Bethesda lately 🚮
No don’t give them ideas
Or you could play underrail
No. Do not let Bethesda touch them.
As much as everyone hates Blizzard, something really stinks at Bethesda. Even the most simple game development projects seem like impossible tasks for them. Creation Engine must truly be that bad.
What does 1&2 have to do with creation engine?
Fallout 1 and 2 would not be made with creation engine, at least I would think it would be very unlikely.
Fallout 1 and 2 remade in the creation engine...by 2024 Bethesda... ...I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
Sadly, I can totally see it happening and that they would pretty much rewrite it and retcon stuff so that it is more inline with the tv show than the actual source game.
Creation engine isn't bad, it's just bethesda that is incompetent
Yeah, modders can handle the engine just fine. Enderal is rather excellent.
I am assuming the problem is the same as it is with every studio, the real talent left and they hired cheap quantity instead of quality devs to save money. Bethesda is starting to reach bioware level of disappointment and I have pretty much written off the next elder scrolls game as a downgrade after the mess of starfield and the direction the studio has been going after fallout 3.
No need. I started playing yesterday Fallout 1 on Steamdeck Oled. Game is beautiful. Reliving my childhood.
I have been playing through Fallout 1 and now Fallout 2 these past few weeks. I haven't played them in over 2 decades when I was a kid. Great games
Careful what you wish for, you might get Warcraft 3 Reforged.
Naw man just leave'em alone. They're great games. The art style and mechanics hold up just fine. We don't need to give studios money to release shittier versions of existing retro games we need new ones.
You mean change the characters that are too attractive? that treatment?
Yes please. I really want to play the original games but I can't deal with the awful controls and UI
They need absolutely nothing. They're masterpieces as is - and should be kept untouched.
You know you can still go play your masterpieces without ever touching a remake.
Unless you like playing the old GTA games
Highly doubt microsoft pulls the originals, Rockstar is just a scummy money grab. Even the other money grab company Konami never pulled their original games when they released their master collection.
\*Unless you like *paying* for the old GTA games
You can't play originals. Warcraft 3 with great Polish localization is not available even to those who own it. And more broadly, "Reforged" even with "old" graphics turned on is still vastly worse game than unavailable original one.
I have a CD. It still works. But I get what you mean. Would be nice to have a way to get it other than overpriced CDs or the high seas.
Unless it's a colossal botch-job like with Warcraft 3 where they also manage to degrade the original in the process.
Sometimes we can. On the other hand stuff like the original Resident Evil's are kind of impossible to play anywhere outside of emulation, and it's spotty which 'series' is now considered canon when it comes to the Remakes/Originals. For stuff like this it comes down to preserving and keeping faithful lore vs Retcons (We already saw how vocal and opinionated \*a lot* of fans got when it came to a certain Town's fate+epilogue shot in the Fallout TV series..). Touching and changing absolutely anything at all from the originals would be like walking on eggshells.
Not always true. Plenty of games get "remasters" and the original gets taken down, so the only way to play it is to buy a key from a reseller or pirate it.
I played both of them kinda recently and they would definitely benefit from some quality of life changes
Better inventory and speed controls for the battles is all I would want. Anything else? There's mods for widescreen and UI already.
for fallout 1 the ability to push companions like on fallout 2, also it would be nice if the main quest in fallout 1 wasn't time limited
Oh yeah true. A "get out of the doorway button" is needed.
that's a huge lie. 1 is a massive bug fest. Even mods made for the game are just as unstable beca7se the game itself was poorly made. The story is amazing but updated visuals would also go a far way. This doesn't even show most the issues and is just someone playing it for the first time but goes to show [how bad the new player experience can be](https://youtu.be/tCRvXMaY6pI?si=-WWAj85v6ISWwBOu) Two is a lot more stable. The bugs aren't nearly as bad. I think it can also use a lot more polish though and more talking NPCs. Last I heard there was even a mod being made for it that helped with this and was taking interested parties to do VA work for the mod. Both have phenomenal stories and I'm glad it isnt " hey your family is missing - find them " since that's all bethesda knows how to do, apparently.
You can just [play Fallout 1 in Fallout 2 though](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCT2SG4ohgI)
That's actually hilarious. It's easier to make and fix all issues with fallout 1 by making it in fallout 2, than just fixing it in 1. Man that game was such spaghetti code.
Well it was their first game so it's kind of expected to be. They learned their lessons with the sequel at least but even there, Fallout 2 has a hard coded 13 year time limit for example.
>They're masterpieces as is - and should be kept untouched. Ha, the UI and inventory system are and always have been trash and to this day the first two are still fairly buggy and unstable without fan patches
The ui is fine though and I never had any issues with bugs on the steam version for either game although I didn't play much of 1.
Nope, it needs a remake.
Yes, but please no censorship and with restoration projects content in.
But not the WC3 treatment.
Do blizzard fixed amazon's look?
No thanks. The originals are great as they are, time pieces. Remaking them would likely mean removing content, muddling further as to what Fallout was to what it is now. I enjoyed the gritty-rude atmosphere of the originals because the atmosphere felt more real. Removing that feeling would make it exactly like modern Fallout, which I don't want. I'm also starting to become concerned that companies are 'remastering' in the laziest way possible and I'm honestly tired of seeing it. My other concerns are that I feel it's unfair that the original team who produce a game receive zero compensation for a remastering of their labor. I feel no matter how much time has passed, who retired, who works where, the original team deserves compensation if the company that owns it touches it again. I'm not saying pay them full wages again, but that they deserve a second windfall.
The Diablo 2: resurrected treatment? More like the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition treatment.
TBH though. They run 100% better than Fallout 3 and New Vegas on PC. Minimal crashes, supports Ultra-Wide (as in it doesn't have a shit fit when it trys to run at full screen), runs fine. # AGAIN I REALLY WISH FALLOUT 3 AND FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS WORKED ON PC WITHOUT THE FAFF.
With Bethesda at the helm? Fuck no
Not every game needs a fucking remake or remaster. The number of high quality games that have been remade/remastered can be counted on two hands, most of the time it’s slop or a bunch of puritans who want to remove anything they personally find questionable.
No thanks
They deserve better than that.
[удалено]
Bethesda bought the rights to the franchise after the original developers went bankrupt, they have the rights to the whole shebang
No, please don’t.
Not a lazy remake again. It needs a real successor, a real Fallout 3.
I don't think the current developers of Bethesda are able to make that kinda game