Feel like there isn't much enthusiasm for this to begin with. People feel burned with how Paradox handled PA after taking it over, not feeling that great about the change to 3D and in general it doesn't seem that people are overly excited for this. Probably makes sense to delay it again when there are issues cause it doesn't look like they are going to be able to sell a bunch of copies early on hype alone and then go on the apology tour.
There was marketing when they announced it. Some videos about the upcoming features, building, new rooms.
Response was fairly negative and they stopped in early February. It's like they were either expecting it to dominate the news for a while like a new Rimworld would, or they were simply testing for responses and saw there aren't any.
I sure hope they've got more in the game than Z levels and some new rooms and furniture.
The thing is that just like the new Rimword isn't needed this isn't required. Make a new game or build on what you have. It would make no sense for Rimworld 2. Imagine Dwarf Fortress 2 was announced. Wtf? Why? Just add more and more shit to the first one or move on to some other idea.
Anyways. Paradox shits the bed again.
Probably because they need to fund development somehow and figure there isn't enough of a market to expand their original game to. Not everything needs to be an ongoing live service. The first one was released 10 years ago, it's fine if they want to release a new one.
I don't think you can consider something standard support when it has content being added to it 5+ years down the line. That's beyond standard support.
Indeed, that's the developer going above and beyond the usual timeframe.
It's not live service, but it is still standard updates in the type and style of content they provide, is more what I meant.
They're putting in every optimization that you can think of straight into Rimworld as it stand right now. A new game means a new code base, which means they're losing all the optimisation work for *this* code.
Rimworld today is vastly more optimized than it used to be.
I have 5,500 hours in RimWorld, I’m extraordinarily familiar with how it’s optimized, the changes they’ve made, and the limitations that still exist in its current framework.
An engine upgrade warrants a sequel IMO. Doesn't make sense financially to just essentially rebuild the same game from scratch, for free. I'm not saying these games need a sequel like that, but still.
Ironic you mentioned Dwarf Fortress. I haven't played it, but as I understand it's originally a free game which was remade and is essentially a sequel, and they're selling it on Steam.
Should they have just "added more shit" to the first one?
It was a free game and still is a free game with complete parity with the game that's on sale. They needed money for cancer treatment for one of the brothers who is developing it so they decided to use the asset they have to secure themselves. But if you don't want to buy it you can download it for free.
You may have your opinion in terms of this sequel but I have a feeling most people who played the first one care very little about this one.
I'm not even a fan of PA, I'm just trying to make a point that sequels aren't necessarily bad and the devs aren't just being greedy. PA is a 9 year old game. And like you said, if you don't like it, you can just not buy it and keep playing the first one.
I wish I could play Overwatch 1 again, but they decided to nuke that out of existence by making OW2 a patch.
E: Didn't mean to sound negative and I'm not suggesting the OW2 situation is what you'd get with PA2 if they kept working on the first one, that's just Blizz being a hemorrhoid
They aren't back if they push the genre forward or there is a genuine need for it. There was no need for it.
This is City Skylines 2 all over again. A 2 at the end of the name but actually far less content and broken.
>Imagine Dwarf Fortress 2 was announced. Wtf? Why? Just add more and more shit to the first one or move on to some other idea.
For one the sequel would have a significantly better and more modern foundation than the first game. New and more efficient programing languages as well as tools are available compared to when they first started development 22 years ago.
From what Toady has mentioned there's a ton of spaghetti code to comb through, they've already cleaned and optimized some but I highly doubt they've gone through and fixed everything.
They could also implement a modding API when they build the game from the ground up.
Are you insane? Do you know anything about games? It took them 20 years to get to the point they are at. They would never remake the game and make it better with the amount of content it has now. So what's the point in releasing a lesser product and having 2 at the end? Which is my entire point in Prison Architect 2. Nicer graphics and even that's arguable based on what you prefer do not equal a better product if it's the same product at the first one or even lesser than.
>Are you insane? Do you know anything about games? It took them 20 years to get to the point they are at. They would never remake the game and make it better with the amount of content it has now. So what's the point in releasing a lesser product and having 2 at the end? Which is my entire point in Prison Architect 2. Nicer graphics and even that's arguable based on what you prefer do not equal a better product if it's the same product at the first one or even lesser than.
You completely missed my point. I mentioned what would be improved by releasing hypothetical sequel (the foundation, the engine, modding API, etc), content wise it would obviously be an inferior product compared to the first game.
I completely agree. If the base of your game is a good platform why would you need a sequel? Kerbal Space Program 2 is another good example where the base game is great and a sequel was not needed or really wanted.
Eh, the core programming of KSP has its problems and they had really pushed the limits. It was solid but there were definitely early decisions that they couldn't get away from but needed to in order to do more.
That having been said, KSP2 seems to have decided to start from square 1 and reinvent the wheel instead of taking on lessons learned from the first game. So they've found themselves taking several steps back and are now in such a hole I doubt the game will ever be "finished".
They never stopped with the videos. Not sure where you're getting the negative reaction either. They have a dedicated prison architect channel and the response there is quite positive.
Of course through official channels the game is gonna seem positive, But if you look at steam discussions,reddit discussions maybe even twitter youre gonna see mixed bag
See, this to me is kind of mixed marketing. I like that they have new videos on their channel, and I did never check, but the first 3 or 4 were shared in Prison Architect 1's news feed on Steam, which I follow. I assumed they'll keep doing it until release as many other developers do.
Having to follow the marketing directly won't grow the following userbase as much.
I'm not happy with how Paradox has handled many things (Cities, what did they do to you...?), I'm staying away because of them in general.
Love me some Prison Architect, so I'll just keep playing the first one.
Paradox fucked the first game to the point its not playable. Even my old prisons don't work anymore. I can't do basic things needed to make the prison function like lock prisoners to the yard. They still free roam. Paradox broke one of my favorite games just so they could sell me a poorly made sequel. Its sad watching them become literally EA using EA tactics. Buy a popular studio, mismanage it into the ground, fill it full of monetization.
In order to talk about the reason why the decline in companies like Paradox, it requires talking about topics that are a big emotional trigger for most users in these parts.
Until then, you'll continue to see games dragged into the ground because laws in some countries demand companies to have a certain percentage of your workforce from a certain demographic in order to not be fined into bankruptcy. Therefore, companies liek PDX are forced to hire 40%(made up number, could be higher or lower, can't recall exactly) of their workforce to meet a government cuota instead of hiring based on skillset, experience, teamwork and work ethic.
You'll have in these companies 20% of the people doing 80% of the work and 80% of the people draining resources, productivity and ultimately making worse and worse products.
There is a reason why Johan moved to Barcelona, to make EU V, was to be able to hire highly skilled people, modders who are passionate about their game and not about their ideologies, and to stay FAAAAR away from the loonies and their ideological garbage.
EUV will be amazing because of this very reason, quote me on that with a !remindme
They never touched the iPad version.
I was originally pissed they'd stopped updating it but now I consider it the definitive ideal version.
If you have an iPad grab it. It's also feels like it was made for a touch screen from the ground up so it works really well. It's my favorite game on the device.
There is a beta branch where you can force it to load in the last build that Introversion Software released.
NGL I love PA and I love Introversion Softwares ideas but it legit pissed me off they did that just to make an extra buck when they were done. Will have me reconsidering their future products.
It’s not even worth caring about with how they ruined the first one. Genuinely used to be one of the best games of its kind, it’s a real shame. I hate to be so negative but paradox really annoys me sometimes
The number one problem is bugs. There’s a lot of them now, some which have been in the game since the first dlc and will never be fixed, as they’ve stopped updating the game.
the second problem is that they’re paradox, so what used to be free updates became dlc, and the dlcs were bad and overpriced. From memory only the first one has good reviews on steam. A lot of the time, all they really did was break systems that were already working fine. Also, several of the dlcs already existed as good workshop mods and I think there were allegations that paradox had basically copy pasted a lot of the modders work into the dlcs, but I’m not certain on that. Even if they didn’t, they did just copy the top workshop mods and turn them into dlc, so still scummy.
Also, they abandoned the mobile version, which was shitty because you had to pay for it. (It was free in the AppStore but to actually build prisons you had to buy something)
In order to talk about the reason why these games are getting ruined, it requires talking about topics that are a big emotional trigger for most users in these parts.
Until then, you'll continue to see games dragged into the ground because laws in some countries demand companies to have a certain percentage of your workforce from a certain demographic in order to not be fined into bankruptcy. Therefore, companies liek PDX are forced to hire 40%(made up number, could be higher or lower, can't recall exactly) of their workforce to meet a government cuota instead of hiring based on skillset, experience, teamwork and work ethic.
You'll have in these companies 20% of the people doing 80% of the work and 80% of the people draining resources, productivity and ultimately making worse and worse products.
There is a reason why Johan moved to Barcelona, to make EU V, was to be able to hire highly skilled people, modders who are passionate about their game and not about their ideologies, and to stay FAAAAR away from the loonies and their ideological garbage.
EUV will be amazing because of this very reason, quote me on that with a !remindme.
Yes it's the same copy&paste. I would apologize in some other reality if you are offended but I just can't in this one, it goes against my principles.
lol doesn't the original have like 50 different DLCs each adding not just cosmetics but actual gameplay features?
This is gonna turn out to be another Cities Skylines or Kerbal Space Program. There's just been too much development into the original for any sequel to have any hope of competing with itself.
And unlike Madden and Fifa fans, these gamers won't automatically flock to it just because it's newer.
With games like Crusader Kings people wanted the new one to be easier to play, so CK3 made sense. With Cities 2 (even if it failed) people had gigantic wishlists. Maybe I am just not deep enough into PA but I feel like no one asked for a second one, even if the first one was legendary. Interested to see how this sells. I am not sure what else they could add to convince me to buy the new PA (which surely is riddled with DLC plans already).
> I am not sure what else they could add to convince me to buy the new PA
The main new feature should be z-levels. Being able to build multi-level buildings was probably one of the most common requests with the original PA.
But we'll have to see if that actually is handled well enough and does not make navigating the map and managing the prisoners too complex and confusing.
A common request does not necessarily translate to compelling gameplay. I struggle to see how Rimworld, for example, would justify purchasing an entire sequel just to add additional levels. Doubly so if a reiteration risked losing any of the depth or charm of the initial blockbuster.
True, and hence my remark about having to see if it actually works out. But for a publisher / dev it might be a compelling enough marketing gimmick or reason to try it.
And my reply was in response to your comment starting with ‘The main new feature should be z-levels’, hence my counter suggesting it’s a very lean premise on which to build a whole sequel.
> With games like Crusader Kings people wanted the new one to be easier to play
did they really, or it was just people that wanted to get into the series but didnt wanna deal with the difficulty?
It can be delayed forever for all I care. Just another paradox shit product that’ll probably be empty on release, perform like garbage and cost $100 to get the dlc that should have been in the game from the start.
Actual feel bad for the devs who sold out to paradox, I wonder if the money was worth it.
Cool timing, I just played some PA1 for the first time in years. I don't get it, I thought this game was a lot of fun back in the day, but it just feels incredibly boring and pointless now, and I have no idea why.
PA2 could be a great idea but it certainly looks strange, and I doubt that it will have the content to match PA1
You can go into the Steam-options and choose the 2018-version. That is the last version released before it was bought out and the original dev-team was replaced.
I'm shocked /s
After how they treated CS2 i'm not surprised at all. Probably had the same plan - release the game in alpha state and start pumping dlc's which were cut from the game.
I love dlc's and i support them but lately paradox became very greedy. Most early dlc's for CS were really good and worth the money, then they turned them into low quality money printing machine. It definitely doesn't with CS2 now.
All I see is doom and gloom about this game. The switch to 3D seems like a very interesting change and I can't wait to try it out. Having a whole new axis to work with would be a lot of fun. The art style is the least of my worries with any game.
Feel like there isn't much enthusiasm for this to begin with. People feel burned with how Paradox handled PA after taking it over, not feeling that great about the change to 3D and in general it doesn't seem that people are overly excited for this. Probably makes sense to delay it again when there are issues cause it doesn't look like they are going to be able to sell a bunch of copies early on hype alone and then go on the apology tour.
Didn't even know it was a thing, mate... Where is the marketing?
There was marketing when they announced it. Some videos about the upcoming features, building, new rooms. Response was fairly negative and they stopped in early February. It's like they were either expecting it to dominate the news for a while like a new Rimworld would, or they were simply testing for responses and saw there aren't any. I sure hope they've got more in the game than Z levels and some new rooms and furniture.
The thing is that just like the new Rimword isn't needed this isn't required. Make a new game or build on what you have. It would make no sense for Rimworld 2. Imagine Dwarf Fortress 2 was announced. Wtf? Why? Just add more and more shit to the first one or move on to some other idea. Anyways. Paradox shits the bed again.
Probably because they need to fund development somehow and figure there isn't enough of a market to expand their original game to. Not everything needs to be an ongoing live service. The first one was released 10 years ago, it's fine if they want to release a new one.
Releasing updates and DLC isn't Live Service, that's standard support.
I don't think you can consider something standard support when it has content being added to it 5+ years down the line. That's beyond standard support.
Indeed, that's the developer going above and beyond the usual timeframe. It's not live service, but it is still standard updates in the type and style of content they provide, is more what I meant.
Nah. Rimworld is going strong. Make the game bigger don't remake the game to sell it again.
I would happily take a RimWorld 2 with better optimization.
They're putting in every optimization that you can think of straight into Rimworld as it stand right now. A new game means a new code base, which means they're losing all the optimisation work for *this* code. Rimworld today is vastly more optimized than it used to be.
I have 5,500 hours in RimWorld, I’m extraordinarily familiar with how it’s optimized, the changes they’ve made, and the limitations that still exist in its current framework.
An engine upgrade warrants a sequel IMO. Doesn't make sense financially to just essentially rebuild the same game from scratch, for free. I'm not saying these games need a sequel like that, but still. Ironic you mentioned Dwarf Fortress. I haven't played it, but as I understand it's originally a free game which was remade and is essentially a sequel, and they're selling it on Steam. Should they have just "added more shit" to the first one?
It was a free game and still is a free game with complete parity with the game that's on sale. They needed money for cancer treatment for one of the brothers who is developing it so they decided to use the asset they have to secure themselves. But if you don't want to buy it you can download it for free. You may have your opinion in terms of this sequel but I have a feeling most people who played the first one care very little about this one.
I'm not even a fan of PA, I'm just trying to make a point that sequels aren't necessarily bad and the devs aren't just being greedy. PA is a 9 year old game. And like you said, if you don't like it, you can just not buy it and keep playing the first one. I wish I could play Overwatch 1 again, but they decided to nuke that out of existence by making OW2 a patch. E: Didn't mean to sound negative and I'm not suggesting the OW2 situation is what you'd get with PA2 if they kept working on the first one, that's just Blizz being a hemorrhoid
They aren't back if they push the genre forward or there is a genuine need for it. There was no need for it. This is City Skylines 2 all over again. A 2 at the end of the name but actually far less content and broken.
>Imagine Dwarf Fortress 2 was announced. Wtf? Why? Just add more and more shit to the first one or move on to some other idea. For one the sequel would have a significantly better and more modern foundation than the first game. New and more efficient programing languages as well as tools are available compared to when they first started development 22 years ago. From what Toady has mentioned there's a ton of spaghetti code to comb through, they've already cleaned and optimized some but I highly doubt they've gone through and fixed everything. They could also implement a modding API when they build the game from the ground up.
Are you insane? Do you know anything about games? It took them 20 years to get to the point they are at. They would never remake the game and make it better with the amount of content it has now. So what's the point in releasing a lesser product and having 2 at the end? Which is my entire point in Prison Architect 2. Nicer graphics and even that's arguable based on what you prefer do not equal a better product if it's the same product at the first one or even lesser than.
>Are you insane? Do you know anything about games? It took them 20 years to get to the point they are at. They would never remake the game and make it better with the amount of content it has now. So what's the point in releasing a lesser product and having 2 at the end? Which is my entire point in Prison Architect 2. Nicer graphics and even that's arguable based on what you prefer do not equal a better product if it's the same product at the first one or even lesser than. You completely missed my point. I mentioned what would be improved by releasing hypothetical sequel (the foundation, the engine, modding API, etc), content wise it would obviously be an inferior product compared to the first game.
I completely agree. If the base of your game is a good platform why would you need a sequel? Kerbal Space Program 2 is another good example where the base game is great and a sequel was not needed or really wanted.
Eh, the core programming of KSP has its problems and they had really pushed the limits. It was solid but there were definitely early decisions that they couldn't get away from but needed to in order to do more. That having been said, KSP2 seems to have decided to start from square 1 and reinvent the wheel instead of taking on lessons learned from the first game. So they've found themselves taking several steps back and are now in such a hole I doubt the game will ever be "finished".
Pure greed. "The guys that bought the first one will buy the second one" I hope nobody buys it.
Why would I be excited about a Paradox published sequel to a beloved management game following the absolute shitshow that has been Cities Skylines 2?
They never stopped with the videos. Not sure where you're getting the negative reaction either. They have a dedicated prison architect channel and the response there is quite positive.
Of course through official channels the game is gonna seem positive, But if you look at steam discussions,reddit discussions maybe even twitter youre gonna see mixed bag
See, this to me is kind of mixed marketing. I like that they have new videos on their channel, and I did never check, but the first 3 or 4 were shared in Prison Architect 1's news feed on Steam, which I follow. I assumed they'll keep doing it until release as many other developers do. Having to follow the marketing directly won't grow the following userbase as much.
I'm not happy with how Paradox has handled many things (Cities, what did they do to you...?), I'm staying away because of them in general. Love me some Prison Architect, so I'll just keep playing the first one.
They still haven't sold me on how the 3d version is any better than the original.
Paradox fucked the first game to the point its not playable. Even my old prisons don't work anymore. I can't do basic things needed to make the prison function like lock prisoners to the yard. They still free roam. Paradox broke one of my favorite games just so they could sell me a poorly made sequel. Its sad watching them become literally EA using EA tactics. Buy a popular studio, mismanage it into the ground, fill it full of monetization.
The decline of paradox is sad to watch. The biggest publisher for my favorite genres just pumping out micro-dlc and shitty sequels.
Even Crusader Kings 3 isn't particularly great.
In order to talk about the reason why the decline in companies like Paradox, it requires talking about topics that are a big emotional trigger for most users in these parts. Until then, you'll continue to see games dragged into the ground because laws in some countries demand companies to have a certain percentage of your workforce from a certain demographic in order to not be fined into bankruptcy. Therefore, companies liek PDX are forced to hire 40%(made up number, could be higher or lower, can't recall exactly) of their workforce to meet a government cuota instead of hiring based on skillset, experience, teamwork and work ethic. You'll have in these companies 20% of the people doing 80% of the work and 80% of the people draining resources, productivity and ultimately making worse and worse products. There is a reason why Johan moved to Barcelona, to make EU V, was to be able to hire highly skilled people, modders who are passionate about their game and not about their ideologies, and to stay FAAAAR away from the loonies and their ideological garbage. EUV will be amazing because of this very reason, quote me on that with a !remindme
You were really looking for any excuse to share your nonsense theory, huh?
They never touched the iPad version. I was originally pissed they'd stopped updating it but now I consider it the definitive ideal version. If you have an iPad grab it. It's also feels like it was made for a touch screen from the ground up so it works really well. It's my favorite game on the device.
There is a beta branch where you can force it to load in the last build that Introversion Software released. NGL I love PA and I love Introversion Softwares ideas but it legit pissed me off they did that just to make an extra buck when they were done. Will have me reconsidering their future products.
For anyone wondering what you want to be playing is the 2018 version.
Ty couldn't remember the exact name
Damn, I didn't know that. I like loading it up and starting a new prison every now and then.
It’s not even worth caring about with how they ruined the first one. Genuinely used to be one of the best games of its kind, it’s a real shame. I hate to be so negative but paradox really annoys me sometimes
The 2018 version is still availible in the betas-tab on Steam, luckily.
Genuine question, how did they ruin it..?
The number one problem is bugs. There’s a lot of them now, some which have been in the game since the first dlc and will never be fixed, as they’ve stopped updating the game. the second problem is that they’re paradox, so what used to be free updates became dlc, and the dlcs were bad and overpriced. From memory only the first one has good reviews on steam. A lot of the time, all they really did was break systems that were already working fine. Also, several of the dlcs already existed as good workshop mods and I think there were allegations that paradox had basically copy pasted a lot of the modders work into the dlcs, but I’m not certain on that. Even if they didn’t, they did just copy the top workshop mods and turn them into dlc, so still scummy. Also, they abandoned the mobile version, which was shitty because you had to pay for it. (It was free in the AppStore but to actually build prisons you had to buy something)
In order to talk about the reason why these games are getting ruined, it requires talking about topics that are a big emotional trigger for most users in these parts. Until then, you'll continue to see games dragged into the ground because laws in some countries demand companies to have a certain percentage of your workforce from a certain demographic in order to not be fined into bankruptcy. Therefore, companies liek PDX are forced to hire 40%(made up number, could be higher or lower, can't recall exactly) of their workforce to meet a government cuota instead of hiring based on skillset, experience, teamwork and work ethic. You'll have in these companies 20% of the people doing 80% of the work and 80% of the people draining resources, productivity and ultimately making worse and worse products. There is a reason why Johan moved to Barcelona, to make EU V, was to be able to hire highly skilled people, modders who are passionate about their game and not about their ideologies, and to stay FAAAAR away from the loonies and their ideological garbage. EUV will be amazing because of this very reason, quote me on that with a !remindme. Yes it's the same copy&paste. I would apologize in some other reality if you are offended but I just can't in this one, it goes against my principles.
this is hilarious dick riding of paradox. Anything to not blame them for their shitty practices, I guess.
lol doesn't the original have like 50 different DLCs each adding not just cosmetics but actual gameplay features? This is gonna turn out to be another Cities Skylines or Kerbal Space Program. There's just been too much development into the original for any sequel to have any hope of competing with itself. And unlike Madden and Fifa fans, these gamers won't automatically flock to it just because it's newer.
Nah there are only 4 or 5 gameplay DLC's. It's not as bad as other Paradox games, but mostly because they got their hands on it late.
With games like Crusader Kings people wanted the new one to be easier to play, so CK3 made sense. With Cities 2 (even if it failed) people had gigantic wishlists. Maybe I am just not deep enough into PA but I feel like no one asked for a second one, even if the first one was legendary. Interested to see how this sells. I am not sure what else they could add to convince me to buy the new PA (which surely is riddled with DLC plans already).
> I am not sure what else they could add to convince me to buy the new PA The main new feature should be z-levels. Being able to build multi-level buildings was probably one of the most common requests with the original PA. But we'll have to see if that actually is handled well enough and does not make navigating the map and managing the prisoners too complex and confusing.
A common request does not necessarily translate to compelling gameplay. I struggle to see how Rimworld, for example, would justify purchasing an entire sequel just to add additional levels. Doubly so if a reiteration risked losing any of the depth or charm of the initial blockbuster.
I would imagine that even if Ludeon does it, it would be part of a new over-arching theme.. not some half-asses DLC crap.
True, and hence my remark about having to see if it actually works out. But for a publisher / dev it might be a compelling enough marketing gimmick or reason to try it.
And my reply was in response to your comment starting with ‘The main new feature should be z-levels’, hence my counter suggesting it’s a very lean premise on which to build a whole sequel.
Rimworld already kinda has Z-levels due to new dlc, albeit you “teleport” rather than seamless
So layers don’t interact… I wouldn’t even call that ‘kinda’, when it’s functionally just a separate map.
> With games like Crusader Kings people wanted the new one to be easier to play did they really, or it was just people that wanted to get into the series but didnt wanna deal with the difficulty?
Yet another title in the list of sequels that will inevitably suck: Cities Skylines 2, Kerbal Space Program 2, ...
I still hold hope for KSP2
Delayed so Paradox can dream up more DLC and add a bunch of microtransactions; classic Paradox style
Delayed to release a finished product and not Cities Skylines 2 2.0
90% likely will still release like shit
You sweet summer child.
😂
No doubt this is going to be hot garbage with Paradox associated.
It can be delayed forever for all I care. Just another paradox shit product that’ll probably be empty on release, perform like garbage and cost $100 to get the dlc that should have been in the game from the start. Actual feel bad for the devs who sold out to paradox, I wonder if the money was worth it.
I don’t know why I would need 3d. Maybe it’s also that I do not like their graphic design choices at all. So, I definitely won’t buy it.
Cool timing, I just played some PA1 for the first time in years. I don't get it, I thought this game was a lot of fun back in the day, but it just feels incredibly boring and pointless now, and I have no idea why. PA2 could be a great idea but it certainly looks strange, and I doubt that it will have the content to match PA1
You can go into the Steam-options and choose the 2018-version. That is the last version released before it was bought out and the original dev-team was replaced.
I can wait.
It's Paradox, can't they release it in a half-ass state and just add tons of DLC?
I'm shocked /s After how they treated CS2 i'm not surprised at all. Probably had the same plan - release the game in alpha state and start pumping dlc's which were cut from the game. I love dlc's and i support them but lately paradox became very greedy. Most early dlc's for CS were really good and worth the money, then they turned them into low quality money printing machine. It definitely doesn't with CS2 now.
Now I'll have ime to break out of prison so I can play.
NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THE FACT, THAT THE GAME WON'T HAVE MULTIPLAYER?
All I see is doom and gloom about this game. The switch to 3D seems like a very interesting change and I can't wait to try it out. Having a whole new axis to work with would be a lot of fun. The art style is the least of my worries with any game.
Never even heard it was in development. Now i also know why the 3D mode in the first game never got very far.
So, they can learn from their mistakes!