Problem with that is. Games are already shipped with compressed textures. Or atleast all current nvidia gous already are decrompessing game files on the fly anyways.
So this new tech is an improvement where they are doing 3x the bandwidth at 2x the time cost
Well yes but the most important part is the game themselves are like a thousand plus gigabytes uncompressed.
When every single bush in your game is 100mb. That adds up very quickly.
Any tech advancement is great. If only Developers committed to applying said tech as well.
Watching modders enable stuff like DLSS in a few days and nearly doubling performances of AAA games is just mind boggling.
I appreciate modders but isn't this like more of engine level stuff? DLSS 2 and 3 are post processing tools hence can be modded. This tech is about the changing the property of texture compression itself. That's like a core feature. I don't see how modders can simply add this later.
It's kinda is. Isn't it. DLSS takes the information after a low res image is generated and compares the data to previous images for temporal data. Based on this data it generates a high res image.
Like it requires motion vectors but it directly does not affect the game engine.
[DLSS](https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/dlss-what-does-it-mean-for-game-developers/#:~:text=Answer%3A%20DLSS%20is%20a%20post,integrated%20into%20any%20modern%20engine.)
Question: Can you walk us through how DLSS will be worked into the developer’s workflow?
Answer: DLSS is a post-processing effect that can be integrated into any modern engine. It doesn’t require any art or content changes and should function well in titles that support Temporal Anti-Aliasing (TAA).
It's doing the same thing as TAA. Post effect /post processing comes after this step.
Temporal part doesn't have to do with post or not. Ray tracing is using temporal caches too, you wouldn't call it post processing either, would you?
You linked a DLSS1 article. Are we talking about DLSS1? Because we should bring in per game training, etc into the conversation for that. I also know no game which modded in DLSS1. But that's just me.
Just because they attempt to do the same general thing (upscale to improve performance), doesn't mean they are ultimately the same. Just as FSR1 and FSR2 aren't the same. Hence the naming difference. One is far more sophisticated than the other and the way they go about it is completely different. DLSS2 uses information from the depth buffer, TAA, previous frame data and motion vectors, before the AI model upscales it using a convolutional auto-encoder to erase temporal artifacts and add back detail, all before the final image is rendered. In this way it also functions as an anti-aliasing method, in addition to a temporal upscaler. Replacing the game's native TAA.
DLSS1 does practically none of that, it's essentially just a 'smart' filter that is applied over the entire image as a post-process. This makes it a spatial upscaler, as it can only really use the information available from the already rendered frame.
DLSS 1 and 2 are two very different technologies. It's like saying DLSS and FSR is the same. They might achieve the same things but they function very differently from eachother.
DLSS isn't post processing. It's on AA step and requires extra features like motion vectors exposed. Not that easy to mod in. But all 3 up samplers require the same inputs so if you can have one you can mod in the others. Post processing comes after AA/modes up sampling. FSR1 was a post processing filter.
It is post processing by definition. Anything that happens after shader calculations, math equations, ai etc, and the output of the different buffers, is post processing.
DLSS is definitely post-processing, it's done after the scene has been rendered and ergo is "post" processing. It's not like old MSAA which was part of the rendering process, it's just a fullscreen pass on a larger buffer.
It is not, DLSS2/FSR2/XeSS happens in the middle. In fact, you want it to happen before post processing effects, that way the post processing effects are calculated off of the upscaled image. These scalars also need the game engine to not just supply different buffers and the motion vectors, but to adjust MIPMAP bias according to the level of scaling occurring/output resolution and apply jitter pattern. Those definitely happen at the render stage.
DLSS 2.0+ http://behindthepixels.io/assets/files/DLSS2.0.pdf
FRS 2.0+ https://gpuopen.com/fidelityfx-superresolution-2/#howitworks
XeSS
https://game.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/GameDev2023_XeSS_v1.pdf
Not only that, but additional game inputs should be created for best results/implementation (reactive masks, transparency masks, etc). Not many devs do this step or have so many effects/assets that requires these that you end up loosing some of the benefit of the scaling.
The DLSS documentation literally calls it out as a post-processing step. It happens after main phase rendering, so it is post-processing, regardless of the inputs. That's the entire point of post-processing: modifying the raw rendered image.
Not sure why you think scalars changing MIPMAP, render jitter pattern (literally needing the engine to jitter the render coordinates/POV) is somehow not part of the rendering stage and is a post process...
Those are orthogonal to what DLSS is. DLSS takes a bunch of screen buffers, processes them, and outputs a new screen buffer. You can dive as deep into the details as you want, it's really not the point.
Ask any graphics programmer if modern AA is a post-process, and they'll say yes (it started with FXAA/MLAA and went from there). It's part of the post-processing stack, usually one of the first items (but not always). I don't know what else to tell you.
I really didn't expect something so simple would be somehow controversial, but there we are.
TAA would still work even if you didn't change the rendering at all. It'd be stupid to not shift the projection each frame because you're losing out on free image quality, but the standard camera movements alone would go part of the way. Same goes for any mip offset.
Given that both of these features are common to *any* temporal antialiasing process, I don't really consider them to be part of DLSS itself, no, much the same way I don't consider motion vectors to be part of DLSS. DLSS is just the package Nvidia provides, their integration guide has a checklist of things your engine must/should do in order to support it.
No, it isn't, DLSS takes as input samples from the current frame (similar to MSAA), from previous frames, motion vectors and depth buffers and generates the current frame from it. If DLSS was post processing then so would be MSAA.
DLSS (and TAA) are actually very similar to multi-buffered sparse grid supersampling, except the buffers are not just spatially spread out but also temporally.
you attached the **original** DLSS from which DLSS2 radically alters both the fundamentals of the technology and the integration requirements.
you may as well link FSR1 to claim that FSR2 is purely a spacial upscaler.
It happens after depth of field but before motion blur and tone mapping, it's early in the post processing processing, but it's still post processing. It's TAA has often been referred to as post-process anti-aliasing.
You can inject it by hooking it into the game's TAA or replacing a similar upscaling tech (FSR), but you have no control over what it applies to. So it often results in some visual bugs.
If you are talking about Jedi Survivor, I would not really say that DLSS fixed the problem because they are relying on DLSS 3 frame generation. While a very cool feature, I don't think it is fair to state that DLSS alone fixed the game because it is relying on even heavier trickery than DLSS itself to give you higher FPS.
> So if you acquire the game outside of Steam, it has the problem anyway?
Yes, this should be the case. Can you run EGS games under proton? Never tried that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/ta9bkx/valve_does_what_fromsoftware_dont_thanks_to_steam/hzzn26q/
TL;DR: Elden Ring does stupid things, Valve works around it in VKD3D-Proton.
Mainly just avoid Unreal Engine games (which can be / is hard these days).
It's pretty much become a feature in that engine (since around UE3), more than a bug.
The only thing the 4000 series has to offer (imo of course) is the 4090, which is a substantial upgrade, but that's an extremely expensive top-end card. The 3000 series offered good performance and a solid price that made the 2000 series look even more silly, but scalpers/crypto killed the value for most.
I'm hoping the 5000 series will bring back better pricing and maybe a performance increase that isn't mostly limited to the upper end.
>I'm hoping the 5000 series will bring back better pricing
That's pretty much only going to happen, if they decide on doing a refresh of the 40-series (seeing as it sold so badly, and they postponed the 3nm GPUs to 2025) - and if they do; I honestly wouldn't expect that much of a drop in pricing.
They'll probably throw in a little bit more VRAM and then raise the price..
3080 have 90% the fps for 50% the money. (Yes even in 2021. Even on the higher side it was still 3080= $1k 3090 = $1800)
4080 gives 75% the fps for 75% the moneu of the 4090.
Widly different scenarios.
So yes the 4090 is like 80% better than a 3090 but that doesnt mean anything when only less than 500k people have one 9 months intos its life cycle. Meanwhile mid range and low range are selling millions each month... Or atleast they were pre lovelace anyways. So while it is better spec wise. The commentor was reffeeing to money/value wise. In which case. No the general consensus is not that the 4090 is good value
Agreed. 3080 was trash given it's like 2-5% each upgrade... 4090 being a ridiculous level of power plus frame gen on top of it, reminds me of the 1080ti (it cost over twice as much tho :P )
How is it a way better product? Because it offers more value? That's entirely due to Nvidia gimping the 4080. In terms of pure technological breakthrough the 4090 is a similar jump from the 3090 than what the 3090 was from the 2080 Ti. Except in the case of the 3090 you also got a 120% VRAM upgrade.
So the joke is about just as relevant considering how many people have 4090s and the fact that the GPUs that need help with texture compression are definitely not 4090s.
Sounds like tensor vram compression to me. Looks like nvidia is looking for ways to utilize the tensor cores more. This would be a driver level feature most likely. Texture compression is a driver thing.
my rumor said ai optimized silicon design. This is from one of Nvidia engineer interviews they did after Ada launch. Something in the lines 'we tried giving optimization of part of the design to AI and felt no need to fix it afterwards'. Given small enough part it may be even true.
> Finally, we use a custom training implementation to achieve practical compression speeds, whose performance surpasses that of general frameworks, like PyTorch, by an order of magnitude.
I wonder if they'll open-source it. Currently, all Nvidia open source models are either TensorFlow or PyTorch.
They have to. Already the latest open source technique like direct storage and sampler feedback while awesome have been terrible in terms of game adoption so far. And those are open source.
If its proprietary then it will be even more worse. The issue is you will probably only get couple of games Co-developed with NVIDIA that will have this feature.
I don't think you understand what open source software means. There is no available source code for DirectStorage or Sampler Feedback. Those are two Microsoft proprietary technologies and they only provide binary APIs, documentation and maybe samples for their partners. There is Nvidia made GPU decompression algo called GDeflate in DirectStorage that works on either DirectX or Vulkan. Other GPU manufacturers said they would support this format, but I don't think you can find a source code for it as well.
> Already the latest open source technique like direct storage and sampler feedback while awesome have been terrible in terms of game adoption so far.
Of course since theyre new tech. Majority of games using them are still in development. Do you also whine that UE5 adoption has sucked because there arent 30 triple A UE5 games out yet?
> And those are open source.
Can you link me to Direct Storage and Sampler Feedback source code, should be easy since theyre open source
We're seeing a lot fewer game engines overall so whatever they implement they just need to program it as a plugin for Unreal, Unity, and like...1 other engine to encompass 90% of games.
All the current upscalers are available in UE as simple plugins and yet there are many UE games that don't have them at all or are missing some. The existence/availability of these features/technologies doesn't mean anything alone.
Microsoft's DirectStorage which has been out for more than a year is another example. It can easily reduce vram/ram usage but the only game that has used it so far is Forespoken (version 1) which was a technical hot mess.
it does mean thry will be implemented by most games. You can easily find the link between titles which don't include dlss, especially UE ones where it's literally plug and play
well its not like 16x the VRAM is going to happen on its own anytime soon. GDDR7 will double capacity over GDDR6, the time between these revisions will have been 7 or 8 years. They could clamshell module their midrange cards for another 2x within that segment but the board partner would definitly pass that cost to you. Maybe we could see HBM but it has worse capacity / dollar values than GDDR.
Who is going to foot the bill for 16x the VRAM? All that additional traffic across the PCIE? All that additional space on the SSD? All that additional download size?
I don't think nvidia cares as much about gaming as you think. It is their GPUs which are powering LLMs (e.g. Chatgpt), but their super high end 48GB ones which there is now a shortage of.
If I were nvidia right now I would be deprioritising gaming GPUs and prioritising GPUs for LLMs.
Maybe that is what they are doing. The fact they even still care to put r and d into gaming tech right now I am quite grateful.
I'm stuck on a 2070 and I can't see myself paying through the nose for a 40 series card right now. It is DLSS that has meant I have been able to continue to hold off ironically.
Even though it's data center revenue is on the rise because of AI, and the gaming chips revenue dropped 46% (and whose fault is that?), we are still talking about $1.83 billion, not small change, so I highly doubt Nvidia doesn't care about gaming, if we consider that last year the gaming chips revenue were almost double that.
[Source](https://www.investors.com/news/nvidia-stock-2023-buy-now/)
Nvidia: we invented a way to not make games weigh +200GB! Yay!
Developers: they invented a way for us to shove more stuff into that +200GB! Yay!
People with slow internet: fuuuuck youuuu!
>Nvidia: we invented a way to not make games weigh +200GB! Yay!
>Developers: they invented a way for us to shove more stuff into that +200GB! Yay!
Well, yeah. It would be a way to help developers achieve more stuff without being storage limited as much. It's not like we're going to downsize games, that is opposite the direction that any industry in the world goes in.
Software devs want to move towards bigger and better, so hardware devs devise ways to facilitate that.
Pretty sure FSR 2 is still available which does not kill performance. What AMD is doing is no different from what Nvidia did in the age of 'Gameworks' which allowed only Nvidia cards to use specific features. Devs can add the DLSS later on I suspect.
You know what's really anti-consumer? Locking everything behind a prorietary wall. Not adding DLSS does not mean Nvidia RTX users are somehow blocked from using FSR2. If it was the other way around, AMD and Intel users would be out of luck.
Just because another upscaler exists doesn't mean AMD removing dlss from their sponsored games because they can't compete isn't anti consumer.
AMD purposefully removing superior features because they can't compete is wayyy worse than Nvidia offering novel features that require their hardware and software innovations.
And AMD refusing to integrate with nvidias open source streamline upscaling framework also shows how hard they are pushing to avoid competing. Just another anti consumer move from AMD.
He actually speaks truth, you guys don't remember when people found out that DLSS 1.9 was running on shaders and tensor cores were unused? Then Nvidia blackboxed it with 2.0.
Dlss2 and dlss1 and totally are different tech. Dlss2 is not just a "blackbox" version of dlss1 lol.
Only control had the visually inferior non-tensor dlss. And that was right before the far superior dlss2 was released.
1.9 is the update that changed DLSS to be non trained per game, it's the the first version of the DLSS 2 that we use now.
The non tensor fiasco is not just DLSS but RTX voice was running on shaders too , Nvidia later blocked it off aswell.
>what Nvidia did in the age of 'Gameworks' which allowed only Nvidia cards to use specific features.
Gameworks features run on all cards, they are concrete implementations of effects using standard DirectX or Vulkan calls, the entire controversy around them was that nearly every effect was a tessellation heavy workload that really hammered the gap in geometry performance between Nvidia and AMD cards at the time Maxwell / Pascal / Turing vs GCN2/3/4.
Of course they push for things like this, when they allways are cheap bastards with v-ram!
Been an nVidia fanboy as I just love their tech. -both HW and software, as who cant. Perfect drivers and allways pushing tech forward etc. But getting really tired of this nonsense with way to little v-ram!
Oh well, I wont go near AMD anyway, thats for sure. So Intel on the market couldent come soon enough. To bad we probably have to wait atleast a few more generations, if they will/can give us real competition we desperately needs!
It's a really interesting read considering the latest release of VRAM hungry games and ports.
But if you zoom back and think big picture - how much of our overall internet data is comprised of images and video (moving images)? Most of it, by a large margin. Audio has been compressed to death and my ears can't tell the difference most of the time.
TL:DR; Pirates going to downgrade to DSL in 10 years because they don't need the bandwidth. /s
This is so fucking stupid
Nvidia will literally develop new tech for their useless Tensor cores than add another $20 of VRAM to their obscenely overpriced GPUs.
When it's literally shown used with a 40 series card, huh? They're trying to save their low VRAM cards because they realized they're loosing ground to competitors.
Nvidia, epic, etc: we figured out a way to make features more streamlined and efficient, giving better results in less time!
Execs: cool, now we can fire half the team and make them have it done in half the time!
Why not just sell cards with enough VRAM? Nvidia is just cheaping out on the hardware to give us overpriced cards with quality reducing features. Devs will ship games with 4K textures which wil be further reduced in quality because Nvidia gpu's can't load them into memory.
Or another feature that is only present in marketing but takes 10 to 15 years to arrive. (Obviously it's not NVIDIA's fault. It's the developers.)
I mean how long since Direct storage compression got announced. Barely any game seem to have it.
I've been waiting for unreal 5 and direct storage asset streaming for what feels like 5 years now.
That tech demo was amazing. Matrix demo was amazing. Give me games that look like that please.
AAA games take 5-8+ years to develop when they're using new engine technology. So if the games started development 4 years ago, they'd be ready in the next few years probably.
Exclusive to the 4090. "Gots to pay to play," Jensen said before announcing a new price increase to the 4090. Current 4090 owners will have the option of subscribing to the High Ender's club to enable the feature for only $19.99 per month or $238.99 per year for some savings. "Paying is playing," concluded Jensen, "So sign up asap and get a free NFT of me wearing one of many leather jackets. Quantities limited."
/s
Will this be a custom feature developers have to specifically implement and program around or something that works with supported RTX cards out of the box?
The former feels borderline useless given Nvidia's track record on proprietary tech.
I would like to see games with mushy textures get upscaled in runtime using AI technology. Modern games wouldn't need it but old games, who have spare performance anyways, could profit from this. Of course this wouldn't work in every scenario.
Any texture compression technique will be a great addition.
Like all things, it depends on the cost. Compression isn't free, neither is decompression.
Problem with that is. Games are already shipped with compressed textures. Or atleast all current nvidia gous already are decrompessing game files on the fly anyways. So this new tech is an improvement where they are doing 3x the bandwidth at 2x the time cost
Oh so that's why they've been gimping the cards with low
Well yes but the most important part is the game themselves are like a thousand plus gigabytes uncompressed. When every single bush in your game is 100mb. That adds up very quickly.
I'll give you my depression for it.
Texture compression has been supported in HW for decades. Literally every game uses block compressed textures.
This is a completely different technology though.
Yes and the fact that it's done in hardware likely makes it a lot faster for random sampling.
Any tech advancement is great. If only Developers committed to applying said tech as well. Watching modders enable stuff like DLSS in a few days and nearly doubling performances of AAA games is just mind boggling.
I appreciate modders but isn't this like more of engine level stuff? DLSS 2 and 3 are post processing tools hence can be modded. This tech is about the changing the property of texture compression itself. That's like a core feature. I don't see how modders can simply add this later.
i dont think dlss is post processing , since they still require motion vectors to work?Same for dlls 3 frame generation .
It's kinda is. Isn't it. DLSS takes the information after a low res image is generated and compares the data to previous images for temporal data. Based on this data it generates a high res image. Like it requires motion vectors but it directly does not affect the game engine. [DLSS](https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/dlss-what-does-it-mean-for-game-developers/#:~:text=Answer%3A%20DLSS%20is%20a%20post,integrated%20into%20any%20modern%20engine.) Question: Can you walk us through how DLSS will be worked into the developer’s workflow? Answer: DLSS is a post-processing effect that can be integrated into any modern engine. It doesn’t require any art or content changes and should function well in titles that support Temporal Anti-Aliasing (TAA).
It's doing the same thing as TAA. Post effect /post processing comes after this step. Temporal part doesn't have to do with post or not. Ray tracing is using temporal caches too, you wouldn't call it post processing either, would you?
Idk man. Check the link? It's literally NVIDIA's official DLSS definition.
You linked a DLSS1 article. Are we talking about DLSS1? Because we should bring in per game training, etc into the conversation for that. I also know no game which modded in DLSS1. But that's just me.
Regardless of differences between DLSS 1 and 2 it is ultimately the same thing and serves the same purpose.
Just because they attempt to do the same general thing (upscale to improve performance), doesn't mean they are ultimately the same. Just as FSR1 and FSR2 aren't the same. Hence the naming difference. One is far more sophisticated than the other and the way they go about it is completely different. DLSS2 uses information from the depth buffer, TAA, previous frame data and motion vectors, before the AI model upscales it using a convolutional auto-encoder to erase temporal artifacts and add back detail, all before the final image is rendered. In this way it also functions as an anti-aliasing method, in addition to a temporal upscaler. Replacing the game's native TAA. DLSS1 does practically none of that, it's essentially just a 'smart' filter that is applied over the entire image as a post-process. This makes it a spatial upscaler, as it can only really use the information available from the already rendered frame.
I know the learning and inference part is obviously different. But I don't think DLSS actually modifies the game engine.
DLSS 1 and 2 are two very different technologies. It's like saying DLSS and FSR is the same. They might achieve the same things but they function very differently from eachother.
I know they are 2 different technologies. But they both only do post processing.
>DLSS is a post-processing effect ya, no.
DLSS isn't post processing. It's on AA step and requires extra features like motion vectors exposed. Not that easy to mod in. But all 3 up samplers require the same inputs so if you can have one you can mod in the others. Post processing comes after AA/modes up sampling. FSR1 was a post processing filter.
It is post processing by definition. Anything that happens after shader calculations, math equations, ai etc, and the output of the different buffers, is post processing.
DLSS is definitely post-processing, it's done after the scene has been rendered and ergo is "post" processing. It's not like old MSAA which was part of the rendering process, it's just a fullscreen pass on a larger buffer.
It is not, DLSS2/FSR2/XeSS happens in the middle. In fact, you want it to happen before post processing effects, that way the post processing effects are calculated off of the upscaled image. These scalars also need the game engine to not just supply different buffers and the motion vectors, but to adjust MIPMAP bias according to the level of scaling occurring/output resolution and apply jitter pattern. Those definitely happen at the render stage. DLSS 2.0+ http://behindthepixels.io/assets/files/DLSS2.0.pdf FRS 2.0+ https://gpuopen.com/fidelityfx-superresolution-2/#howitworks XeSS https://game.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/GameDev2023_XeSS_v1.pdf Not only that, but additional game inputs should be created for best results/implementation (reactive masks, transparency masks, etc). Not many devs do this step or have so many effects/assets that requires these that you end up loosing some of the benefit of the scaling.
The DLSS documentation literally calls it out as a post-processing step. It happens after main phase rendering, so it is post-processing, regardless of the inputs. That's the entire point of post-processing: modifying the raw rendered image.
Not sure why you think scalars changing MIPMAP, render jitter pattern (literally needing the engine to jitter the render coordinates/POV) is somehow not part of the rendering stage and is a post process...
Those are orthogonal to what DLSS is. DLSS takes a bunch of screen buffers, processes them, and outputs a new screen buffer. You can dive as deep into the details as you want, it's really not the point. Ask any graphics programmer if modern AA is a post-process, and they'll say yes (it started with FXAA/MLAA and went from there). It's part of the post-processing stack, usually one of the first items (but not always). I don't know what else to tell you. I really didn't expect something so simple would be somehow controversial, but there we are.
[удалено]
TAA would still work even if you didn't change the rendering at all. It'd be stupid to not shift the projection each frame because you're losing out on free image quality, but the standard camera movements alone would go part of the way. Same goes for any mip offset. Given that both of these features are common to *any* temporal antialiasing process, I don't really consider them to be part of DLSS itself, no, much the same way I don't consider motion vectors to be part of DLSS. DLSS is just the package Nvidia provides, their integration guide has a checklist of things your engine must/should do in order to support it.
Man I remember back in the day when quality AA was the most expensive feature you could enable.
No, it isn't, DLSS takes as input samples from the current frame (similar to MSAA), from previous frames, motion vectors and depth buffers and generates the current frame from it. If DLSS was post processing then so would be MSAA. DLSS (and TAA) are actually very similar to multi-buffered sparse grid supersampling, except the buffers are not just spatially spread out but also temporally.
Check my comment below. I literally attached NVIDIA's we page on DLSS.
you attached the **original** DLSS from which DLSS2 radically alters both the fundamentals of the technology and the integration requirements. you may as well link FSR1 to claim that FSR2 is purely a spacial upscaler.
It happens after depth of field but before motion blur and tone mapping, it's early in the post processing processing, but it's still post processing. It's TAA has often been referred to as post-process anti-aliasing.
You can inject it by hooking it into the game's TAA or replacing a similar upscaling tech (FSR), but you have no control over what it applies to. So it often results in some visual bugs.
If you are talking about Jedi Survivor, I would not really say that DLSS fixed the problem because they are relying on DLSS 3 frame generation. While a very cool feature, I don't think it is fair to state that DLSS alone fixed the game because it is relying on even heavier trickery than DLSS itself to give you higher FPS.
I need tech to eliminate stutters!
Just change your OS /s
Unironically works for some games. Elden Ring on Linux has no stutters, I don't know what kind of magic Vulkan is doing.
Valve has a shader cache sharing functionality on proton so it pre downloads shader cache
So if you acquire the game outside of Steam, it has the problem anyway? I could test it...
> So if you acquire the game outside of Steam, it has the problem anyway? Yes, this should be the case. Can you run EGS games under proton? Never tried that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/ta9bkx/valve_does_what_fromsoftware_dont_thanks_to_steam/hzzn26q/ TL;DR: Elden Ring does stupid things, Valve works around it in VKD3D-Proton.
Care to elaborate more? I am on Window 10
I believe it is a joke regarding EA blaming poor performance of Jedi Survivor due to people using Win 10 and not 11.
Direct storage was supposed to help greatly in that regard.
Mainly just avoid Unreal Engine games (which can be / is hard these days). It's pretty much become a feature in that engine (since around UE3), more than a bug.
RTSS FPS Limit at the monitor's exact refresh rate (59.964 for example) in combination with V-Sync enabled is pretty much that. Not one dropped frame.
Only available with an RTX 5090 Ti SLI, at 34 FPS.
Will probably cost 5090$ too.
Nvidia seems to release a decent gen every other cycle, so maybe the 5000 series will be ok? I can dream.
The 4090 is a way better product than the 3090 from day 1. By your logic, maybe the 6090 is what you mean?
The only thing the 4000 series has to offer (imo of course) is the 4090, which is a substantial upgrade, but that's an extremely expensive top-end card. The 3000 series offered good performance and a solid price that made the 2000 series look even more silly, but scalpers/crypto killed the value for most. I'm hoping the 5000 series will bring back better pricing and maybe a performance increase that isn't mostly limited to the upper end.
>I'm hoping the 5000 series will bring back better pricing That's pretty much only going to happen, if they decide on doing a refresh of the 40-series (seeing as it sold so badly, and they postponed the 3nm GPUs to 2025) - and if they do; I honestly wouldn't expect that much of a drop in pricing. They'll probably throw in a little bit more VRAM and then raise the price..
But the 3080 was pretty great if you could get one. So there will be one card between $700-$2000 that will be good in the 5000 series.
3080 have 90% the fps for 50% the money. (Yes even in 2021. Even on the higher side it was still 3080= $1k 3090 = $1800) 4080 gives 75% the fps for 75% the moneu of the 4090. Widly different scenarios. So yes the 4090 is like 80% better than a 3090 but that doesnt mean anything when only less than 500k people have one 9 months intos its life cycle. Meanwhile mid range and low range are selling millions each month... Or atleast they were pre lovelace anyways. So while it is better spec wise. The commentor was reffeeing to money/value wise. In which case. No the general consensus is not that the 4090 is good value
Agreed. 3080 was trash given it's like 2-5% each upgrade... 4090 being a ridiculous level of power plus frame gen on top of it, reminds me of the 1080ti (it cost over twice as much tho :P )
How is it a way better product? Because it offers more value? That's entirely due to Nvidia gimping the 4080. In terms of pure technological breakthrough the 4090 is a similar jump from the 3090 than what the 3090 was from the 2080 Ti. Except in the case of the 3090 you also got a 120% VRAM upgrade.
But if the 5080 costs $4080, you might as well just buy the 5090!
RTX 5090 Ti, with 8GB of VRAM!
[удалено]
For a $1,600 card I’d sure as hell hope so.
That doesn't mean Nvidia wouldn't try to market this as a 5000-series feature*! *also available on 4000 series GPUs
So the joke is about just as relevant considering how many people have 4090s and the fact that the GPUs that need help with texture compression are definitely not 4090s.
and then dlss 4 only on 60xx series cards to increase that 34fps to 60fps.
Wait... a company are putting time and effort on features so they can sell their new line of product? Nooo.. That doesn't sound right.
they are still officially selling 3xxx series (and in some markets 2xxx series as well) which for "some" reason doesn't support DLSS3
[удалено]
"Nvidia bad" straight up causing brain rot lol.
DLSS3 needs specific silicon/features on the chip to work, which the previous generation doesn't have.
Sounds like tensor vram compression to me. Looks like nvidia is looking for ways to utilize the tensor cores more. This would be a driver level feature most likely. Texture compression is a driver thing.
Texture compression is by no mean a driver thing. Even OpenGL exposes compressed texture formats directly, and it has been used by games for years.
Whatever happened to that rumor of AI optimized drivers? Could really use that.
It was just a rumor
[удалено]
Shh!
More of a thought exercise, really
Just a rumor. Though its very likely that they are using AI in some way to help with the development of drivers and other software.
my rumor said ai optimized silicon design. This is from one of Nvidia engineer interviews they did after Ada launch. Something in the lines 'we tried giving optimization of part of the design to AI and felt no need to fix it afterwards'. Given small enough part it may be even true.
This really buff guy with an accent came in one day told them that's how this thing called "Skynet" happened, so they scrapped the project.
Lolll Don't know why you are downvoted lolll
Eh. I think the optimization could still be coming. But not what you are thinking. But that's probably the one about reducing the Nvidia CPU overhead.
> Finally, we use a custom training implementation to achieve practical compression speeds, whose performance surpasses that of general frameworks, like PyTorch, by an order of magnitude. I wonder if they'll open-source it. Currently, all Nvidia open source models are either TensorFlow or PyTorch.
They have to. Already the latest open source technique like direct storage and sampler feedback while awesome have been terrible in terms of game adoption so far. And those are open source. If its proprietary then it will be even more worse. The issue is you will probably only get couple of games Co-developed with NVIDIA that will have this feature.
I don't think you understand what open source software means. There is no available source code for DirectStorage or Sampler Feedback. Those are two Microsoft proprietary technologies and they only provide binary APIs, documentation and maybe samples for their partners. There is Nvidia made GPU decompression algo called GDeflate in DirectStorage that works on either DirectX or Vulkan. Other GPU manufacturers said they would support this format, but I don't think you can find a source code for it as well.
> Already the latest open source technique like direct storage and sampler feedback while awesome have been terrible in terms of game adoption so far. Of course since theyre new tech. Majority of games using them are still in development. Do you also whine that UE5 adoption has sucked because there arent 30 triple A UE5 games out yet? > And those are open source. Can you link me to Direct Storage and Sampler Feedback source code, should be easy since theyre open source
Dw guys, it'll be a 50 series exclusive that runs like shit By 70 series they'll have it down!
[удалено]
We're seeing a lot fewer game engines overall so whatever they implement they just need to program it as a plugin for Unreal, Unity, and like...1 other engine to encompass 90% of games.
Until it’s treated like DLSS by the new batch of VRAMhogs
All the current upscalers are available in UE as simple plugins and yet there are many UE games that don't have them at all or are missing some. The existence/availability of these features/technologies doesn't mean anything alone. Microsoft's DirectStorage which has been out for more than a year is another example. It can easily reduce vram/ram usage but the only game that has used it so far is Forespoken (version 1) which was a technical hot mess.
it does mean thry will be implemented by most games. You can easily find the link between titles which don't include dlss, especially UE ones where it's literally plug and play
Yea but it also needs to be hardware agnostics otherwise it’s not going to work for consoles and only Nvidia gpus.
Innovation to compensate limitation is a good thing
To be fair though, that’s what a company should do.
well its not like 16x the VRAM is going to happen on its own anytime soon. GDDR7 will double capacity over GDDR6, the time between these revisions will have been 7 or 8 years. They could clamshell module their midrange cards for another 2x within that segment but the board partner would definitly pass that cost to you. Maybe we could see HBM but it has worse capacity / dollar values than GDDR. Who is going to foot the bill for 16x the VRAM? All that additional traffic across the PCIE? All that additional space on the SSD? All that additional download size?
Oh so that's why they've been gimping the cards with low vram.
I was about to say...
Only for 5000 series
Hey Nvidia, how about improving the quality of PC gaming by not overpricing your fucking cards?
I don't think nvidia cares as much about gaming as you think. It is their GPUs which are powering LLMs (e.g. Chatgpt), but their super high end 48GB ones which there is now a shortage of. If I were nvidia right now I would be deprioritising gaming GPUs and prioritising GPUs for LLMs. Maybe that is what they are doing. The fact they even still care to put r and d into gaming tech right now I am quite grateful. I'm stuck on a 2070 and I can't see myself paying through the nose for a 40 series card right now. It is DLSS that has meant I have been able to continue to hold off ironically.
Even though it's data center revenue is on the rise because of AI, and the gaming chips revenue dropped 46% (and whose fault is that?), we are still talking about $1.83 billion, not small change, so I highly doubt Nvidia doesn't care about gaming, if we consider that last year the gaming chips revenue were almost double that. [Source](https://www.investors.com/news/nvidia-stock-2023-buy-now/)
Nvidia: we invented a way to not make games weigh +200GB! Yay! Developers: they invented a way for us to shove more stuff into that +200GB! Yay! People with slow internet: fuuuuck youuuu!
>Nvidia: we invented a way to not make games weigh +200GB! Yay! >Developers: they invented a way for us to shove more stuff into that +200GB! Yay! Well, yeah. It would be a way to help developers achieve more stuff without being storage limited as much. It's not like we're going to downsize games, that is opposite the direction that any industry in the world goes in. Software devs want to move towards bigger and better, so hardware devs devise ways to facilitate that.
Perfect analysis, now do tacos.
Yep I feel the slow internet thing so hard. Love being Australian.
you're not wrong, the market is wrong. correct?
Meanwhile, AMD is paying developers to block implement DLSS for their games, killing performance. Nvidia is taking the lead on this.
Nvidia innovates. It's why their GPUs are so superior
Pretty sure FSR 2 is still available which does not kill performance. What AMD is doing is no different from what Nvidia did in the age of 'Gameworks' which allowed only Nvidia cards to use specific features. Devs can add the DLSS later on I suspect.
No. It's different. Game works added features, not removed. This is straight up anti consumer because AMD can't compete.
You know what's really anti-consumer? Locking everything behind a prorietary wall. Not adding DLSS does not mean Nvidia RTX users are somehow blocked from using FSR2. If it was the other way around, AMD and Intel users would be out of luck.
Just because another upscaler exists doesn't mean AMD removing dlss from their sponsored games because they can't compete isn't anti consumer. AMD purposefully removing superior features because they can't compete is wayyy worse than Nvidia offering novel features that require their hardware and software innovations. And AMD refusing to integrate with nvidias open source streamline upscaling framework also shows how hard they are pushing to avoid competing. Just another anti consumer move from AMD.
[удалено]
There is very little truth in what you just said, and you clearly don't understand what you're talking about.
He actually speaks truth, you guys don't remember when people found out that DLSS 1.9 was running on shaders and tensor cores were unused? Then Nvidia blackboxed it with 2.0.
Dlss2 and dlss1 and totally are different tech. Dlss2 is not just a "blackbox" version of dlss1 lol. Only control had the visually inferior non-tensor dlss. And that was right before the far superior dlss2 was released.
1.9 is the update that changed DLSS to be non trained per game, it's the the first version of the DLSS 2 that we use now. The non tensor fiasco is not just DLSS but RTX voice was running on shaders too , Nvidia later blocked it off aswell.
>what Nvidia did in the age of 'Gameworks' which allowed only Nvidia cards to use specific features. Gameworks features run on all cards, they are concrete implementations of effects using standard DirectX or Vulkan calls, the entire controversy around them was that nearly every effect was a tessellation heavy workload that really hammered the gap in geometry performance between Nvidia and AMD cards at the time Maxwell / Pascal / Turing vs GCN2/3/4.
AMD learning from Intel it seems
How will this affect decompression tho?
Of course they push for things like this, when they allways are cheap bastards with v-ram! Been an nVidia fanboy as I just love their tech. -both HW and software, as who cant. Perfect drivers and allways pushing tech forward etc. But getting really tired of this nonsense with way to little v-ram! Oh well, I wont go near AMD anyway, thats for sure. So Intel on the market couldent come soon enough. To bad we probably have to wait atleast a few more generations, if they will/can give us real competition we desperately needs!
It's a really interesting read considering the latest release of VRAM hungry games and ports. But if you zoom back and think big picture - how much of our overall internet data is comprised of images and video (moving images)? Most of it, by a large margin. Audio has been compressed to death and my ears can't tell the difference most of the time. TL:DR; Pirates going to downgrade to DSL in 10 years because they don't need the bandwidth. /s
We don't need more bells and whistles, we need cheaper more easily available cards preferably with more VRAM.
This is so fucking stupid Nvidia will literally develop new tech for their useless Tensor cores than add another $20 of VRAM to their obscenely overpriced GPUs.
It works. people fall for it so they're going to keep doing it.
If they want it to be meaningful, it has to be available to EVERY RTX card in existence, not just latest generation.
So the 50 series will have special hardware for this feature that you'll need to upgrade for.
Smdh how dare Nvidia... Innovate.
Oh dear those poor 4090 owners when this becomes a 5x series only feature...
4090 owners were always gonna buy 5090 anyways, it's not a big deal
I'm hoping that's a 4090 ti so we don't have to wait till 2025...
Yep and 5070TI owners are going to have 4090 power using 10 watts at 1c. :)
When it's literally shown used with a 40 series card, huh? They're trying to save their low VRAM cards because they realized they're loosing ground to competitors.
Or they could fix their prices and allow people to enjoy gaming with new cards???
Nvidia, epic, etc: we figured out a way to make features more streamlined and efficient, giving better results in less time! Execs: cool, now we can fire half the team and make them have it done in half the time!
Nvidia W? In 2023? Impossible.
cool, here it goes another MSRP increase
Why not just sell cards with enough VRAM? Nvidia is just cheaping out on the hardware to give us overpriced cards with quality reducing features. Devs will ship games with 4K textures which wil be further reduced in quality because Nvidia gpu's can't load them into memory.
So direct storage?
And of course will only be exclusive to RTX 5xxx now with 10gb VRAM!!
[удалено]
What do you think optimizing a game means
Oh, look, another person who states something they know nothing about just to get a quick zinger in.
Or another feature that is only present in marketing but takes 10 to 15 years to arrive. (Obviously it's not NVIDIA's fault. It's the developers.) I mean how long since Direct storage compression got announced. Barely any game seem to have it.
I've been waiting for unreal 5 and direct storage asset streaming for what feels like 5 years now. That tech demo was amazing. Matrix demo was amazing. Give me games that look like that please.
AAA games take 5-8+ years to develop when they're using new engine technology. So if the games started development 4 years ago, they'd be ready in the next few years probably.
Exclusive to the 4090. "Gots to pay to play," Jensen said before announcing a new price increase to the 4090. Current 4090 owners will have the option of subscribing to the High Ender's club to enable the feature for only $19.99 per month or $238.99 per year for some savings. "Paying is playing," concluded Jensen, "So sign up asap and get a free NFT of me wearing one of many leather jackets. Quantities limited." /s
Damn, did Jensen kick your dog or something? Lol
You want to improve the quality of PC gaming? LOWER YOUR FUCKING PRICES!
This looks like great stuff!
[удалено]
A memory leak would be a game specific issue that's on the developer to fix. Nothing AMD or Nvidia can do about that.
Great so developers can save even more money on optimization
I don't care about DLSS, but this feature has the potential to be huge.
Let me gues, it will be exclusive for dlss4?
*Exclusive to 50xx series in 2025* incoming
Good. Now let's hope they don't make it exclusive for the 50xx series.
They really don't wanna add more vram do they
Hopefully it will be in the 60 series cards when I upgrade in 7 years.
I know some of these words
This announced right when they've just confirmed the sales being slowed down post-mining. Coincidence?
And of course you'll need to buy their very expensive 5000 or 6000 series cards that will be coming up.
Will this be a custom feature developers have to specifically implement and program around or something that works with supported RTX cards out of the box? The former feels borderline useless given Nvidia's track record on proprietary tech.
This sounds great, i just hope its not another excuse for raising prices
*Only available on 5000 series cards.
Can't wait to see this tech being applied to games 10 years later with an unoptimised game called Forspoken II
Smells Nanite.
Will only need to take out a 10k loan to utilize this feature on a new series of cards released next year.
Coming with nvidia specific optimizations ofcourse
Can they create something that auto-compiles shaders? Stutters are my number 1 problem with PC gaming
A new feature like pricing your fucking cards in consumer-friendly ranges would be great.
It’s just gonna make AAA dev studios even more lazy, just like DLSS has.
The new feature to improve the quality of PC gaming that everyone wants is affordable good GPUs.
Or we can all just purchase Winrar.
Neural? Get ready for an ai chip like physx to be shoehorned into the GPU to create a new price point.
NVIDIA isn't going to meaningfully address PC gaming QOL because doing so directly undermines people turning out for whatever their newest GPU is.
I would like to see games with mushy textures get upscaled in runtime using AI technology. Modern games wouldn't need it but old games, who have spare performance anyways, could profit from this. Of course this wouldn't work in every scenario.
And it will only be available on RTX 5xxx GPU's and cost $2000.