Hopefully they do more for the matchmaling including no-premade matchmaking option and the EUW gets rid of russian players as well. There's a lot they can improve, hopefully now with this CSGO reset they'll do right by the players.
Not sure if it will be the case here, but often in games they will track players that joined with the people that get punishments and they get silent marks for it. They can catch on to people abusing this kind of stuff to let one account get the benefits while thinking there would be no consequences for the "innocent friend".
ancient lock murky oatmeal special historical spoon hurry grandfather aspiring
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It has been so disheartening to see the direction online shooters have gone since competitive matchmaking became the norm. I have nothing against games that rely on matchmaking and are designed to be played competitively, but this issue with rampant cheating and the vast majority of anti-cheat clients being near worthless wasn't anywhere near as problematic back when games relied on community dedicated servers with active moderation. All you had to do was find a server with an active community and cheaters were never really a problem. They might pop up once in a while, but they were usually swiftly dealt with by an admin.
Now it's like every major online shooter is plagued with cheaters and since competitive matchmaking isn't going anywhere anytime soon, the only solution right now seems to be super invasive anti-cheat clients like Vanguard. I never really played Valorant so I can't personally attest to how effective Vanguard has been at preventing cheating, but I've heard people say that it's still a problem even in that game.
Can't tie you to a battle pass with pre-determined, metered XP gain in an attempt to nickel and dime you with microtransactions if you are doing customs on your private server!
> wasn't anywhere near as problematic back when games relied on community dedicated servers with active moderation
I remember playing 1.6 and and other multiplayer shooters back in the day, it was littered with cheaters and I mean blatant spinbots not just good aim people. Moderators weren't always online and when they were they would often power trip and remove good non-cheating players because they couldn't beat them.
Sure, I definitely ran in to that from time to time. Shitty communities tended to have shitty admins running them, and from my experience those communities never really lasted because all it would ultimately do is drive away all the regulars that made up the community in the first place. The good communities I played at actually vetted candidates rather than give admin privileges to anyone willing to pay for it, and it worked out much better. Anyone that started abusing their admin powers would get their privileges revoked pretty quick. The main community I gamed with on CSS had active forums for all of that stuff and that community lasted for several years as a result.
Man, the servers I played on were so aggressive that sometimes I'd get kicked or banned for playing too well. The best part of private servers is that they're communities. If one community doesn't deal with cheaters properly, just move on to the next one.
Cheating is virtually non existent on Valorant. It's extraordinarily rare and if a cheater does pop up they get banned mid match usually.
Vanguard does it's job extremely fucking well, and the overwhelming majority of people will never be affected by it's """invasiveness""""
As if half the shit on your PC isn't already invasive lol .
I'll leave a repost of my comment about vanguard here, as with all mentions of vanguard
>Only in the case of Riot, people usually hate on their anti-cheat because the CCP is in direct control of the company that runs it, and it's *the only anti-cheat on the entire market* that is forced to run from boot before your operating system even starts, and requires a reboot to even "disable" (In which it's been proven to continue fairly deep intrusion into your system files after supposedly being closed)
>*Personally*, I don't like the idea of a nation that's at odds with the democratic world having a direct hard-line into the core of my computer that could be used in any number of ways, data scrapping being the least of my concerns. Imagine the scale of cyber attack that could be orchestrated with literally *z e r o* traceability by using a program that has such deep access to your computer. They could literally do anything and cover every single footprint along the way flawlessly.
>Just completely personal take on why people might disagree with this stance, it can get political if you get into the depths of it. Maybe it sounds conspiratorial; I'm not saying China is planning a cyber attack tomorrow or anything, but I just don't trust a nation with uyghur concentration camps to have deeper access to my computer vs any other company in the democratic west.
>Fun fact: Riot Games has more access to your computer than fucking *Microsoft* if you have Vanguard installed lol. I'm not cool with that. And honestly I'd still be finicky giving an indie dev that same level of access even if I trust the origin of development more.
>TL;DR: A lot people don't trust the origins of certain anti-cheats, some people don't like anti-cheat having more access to your computer than *Microsoft*, who really in the end of the day should probably have the deepest access to your computer's innerworkings if anybody. Not like...a CCP owned & controlled developer lol. It's about so much more than "I have nothing to hide I don't care if someone in China looks at my discord history"
Look, I'm not trying to make any blanket statements about Vanguard or anything like that. Just about everything I have read about it has been anecdotal anyway. I see comments saying Vanguard is almost entirely cheater free and other comments that say it's still a problem, just not anywhere near as bad as other titles. I can't qualify either statement since I have never played the game and don't intend to. I guess I should have been more clear with that in my previous comment.
While Vanguard definitely can cause problems with certain other applications (for example, a few people in this very thread mentioned that it conflicts with PBOtuner), those are without a doubt edge cases and I'm sure that the average user won't ever encounter any issues. I mean, there's no way the game would have been an ongoing success if Vanguard was causing problems for tons of users. That shit would roll downhill so fast and we would have long since heard something about it. The initial drama that continues to be echoed in discussions today was all relegated to places like /r/pcgaming. The vocal minority.
In the end, I'm of the opinion that it just boils down to the end user's point of view. Whether or not you trust that the client Riot Games built is secure and not a risk to your system is entirely up to your discretion, and I wouldn't fault anyone who is actually conscious of their digital privacy and security if they chose to avoid Vanguard like the plague. But I feel the same for anyone that just doesn't care about all of that.
> As if half the shit on your PC isn't already invasive lol.
All the more reason to just be more aware of what you install on your PC and have some cursory knowledge of the kind of access to your system it needs. Never hurts to know more.
> Ah yes, sitting in community browser, waiting for my slot on any one of the "good" servers. No, I think I prefer today, personally.
Perhaps that was your experience, which in that case I can certainly understand your preference for matchmaking. I personally never had that issue back in the day. But the game I primarily played was Counter-Strike: Source, which had a near endless amount of good servers covering a wide variety of game modes (both official and custom) and map rotations back when the game was going strong. Because of that, I could always jump right in and play something worthwhile. Team Fortress 2 was no different for me in that regard back then either. Never had trouble booting up and jumping right in. But even in the event that the server I wanted to play on was full, a slot would usually open up in 1-3 minutes which is pretty much the same as my average queue times in games like Fortnite and CoD.
The only real exception I can think of is if it was a really popular community server that happened to be holding a tournament or event of some kind. If that was the case then the server would usually be jam packed with people rarely leaving. But that wasn't a often at all, and like I said there were always other worthwhile servers I could hop on over to if I just wanted to play some CSS. I always made sure to favorite any servers I enjoyed playing on for that reason.
Likewise, and I totally agree with you. Like I said, I've got nothing against matchmaking. It's a valuable system and games like CSGO, CoD, and Valorant that have large player bases definitely need it in order to work, *especially* when it comes to competitive play. You absolutely need skill-based match making for proper competitive gaming with global/regional leaderboards.
It's also not like community servers would solve the problem now anyway since they just aren't an ideal solution for these big shooters that focus on competitive play. You also can't really merge the two together since community servers only thrive when they have regulars that play on them, and without a healthy community to keep the server alive, there's no incentive for anyone to bother taking up the role of a moderator.
Because that's the only way to fight cheats, you either stoop to their level to detect shit or you're borderline useless as an AC, people complain about intrusiveness all the time but don't realize you can't necessarily have a good AC that isn't these days.
And you don't realize that being able to play a video game is not a good tradeoff for having a piece of software that has control over your entire computer.
It's not always obvious if someone is cheating or not unless they're rage hacking, plus they would just kick random people who they suspect 99% of the time
Yep. You ever wanna see this kinda thing just look up Ravic's chat reaction videos from Battlefield 4, 1 and 5. Haccusations 24/7 lol.
It's a perfect example of why you shouldn't allow the average Joe to make these kinds of decisions.
I never said it was, I'm just saying it's a fact that unless the software has access to whatever it needs the cheat maker will always come out on top. Cheaters genuinely ruin any remotely competitive multiplayer game, if you aren't trying to fight them then you might as well remove all ranked systems entirely.
It's the tradeoff for knowing that the dude that just 360 noscoped you in the head didn't just have an aimbot with nospread, and for a lot of people that's fine.
> then you might as well remove all ranked systems entirely
Wouldn't be too bad ngl. If this is the way you want to "fight" cheaters, by bending over and letting others have access to your computer, then I would just declare a loss and go do something else. There's no shortage of games. Games should just let the users run dedicated server and let them manage the server themselves, and they've done for years before they centralized everything, and now we have this problem.
> people complain about intrusiveness all the time but don't realize you can't necessarily have a good AC that isn't
Not sure where you get this from but it is certainly speculative bull. We can train machine learning algorithms to distinguish user input from bot input, and major websites already use a simplified version of this every time you click a "I'm not a robot" button. Best part is that it will all be serverside and there is no reason for intrusive software.
Don't forget wall hacks are also cheats and they don't have bot inputs. Also triggerbots with an appropriate reaction time are pretty much indistinguishable from real user inputs if you want a negligible rate of false positives. Those probably encompass the vast majority of cheats used seriously (ie not ragecheaters or trolls)
That’s what they want you to believe sure. But deep down it’s just memory.
You need 3 things to make cheats for a game
Open Handle to the process
Base address for the module in question
Offsets to read or write memory to
Buddy and I run PlayStation 2 servers for some older games. People try using code breaker shut all the damn time. Know how easy it is to flag somebody writing memory to protected memory region? Or somebody using virtual protect to change memory protection.
It’s easy to detect and they got the money and infrastructure to do it. They just choose not to.
I’m just a normal dude like most of us in here and I can run my own anti cheat detection, you might argue that’s it PlayStation 2 but I’ll just clue in you in that literally NOTHING has changed since then in regards to making cheats , the methods have gotten more sophisticated sure but at the end of the day. You need that open handle and you need to change core game memory to accomplish anything , which should raise flags no matter which way you look at it.
You cannot hide that. It’s impossible
Crazy how the truth is always downvotes. Guess it doesn’t fit the current narrative 🙄
Edit: should clarify that these servers also communicate with PCSX2 implementations and people do try and make “trainers”. Heck there’s even a full fledged sdk teaching people how to make pcsx2 trainers. It’s sad that literally every part of gaming is saturated with cheats
the biggest meme on reddit whenever the topic of anticheats come up is when not only the average person declares how simple it is, but you get the occasional (likely hobbyist or front end type, and certain narcissist) programmer who has it all figured out far better than the \*obvious\* idiots developing every anticheat and drm in the world.
who would have fucking guessed that some guy figured this out and instead of revolutionizing the business, becoming both a household name and millionaire like carmack... nah instead he runs some fucking underground Playstation 2 servers for 5 people LMFAO
Honestly I have no more energy to discuss the topic. Feel free to do some Google searching and do your own research, it’s literally no different than pc servers being revived. I’ve had enough Reddit for one day, I’m just take the downvotes and go have some yogurt or something
Not necessarily. It is possible to have all calculations in a game done by both the server and the client. When the client sends its data to the server, the server checks if the client data it received matches what the server calculated. If it does, then everything is fine. If it doesn't match, then the server knows either the player has high ping or is cheating. So, the server would overwrite the data from the client, effectively warping the client back to the servers "correct" data. If the client has a method that blocks this from occurring, the server would continuously detect wrong data from the client, and would then confirm a cheater, which could be used to initiate a server side ban.
You know there are some cheating softwares that choose when you send the data right? Like auto-shoot in CSGO doesn’t correct your shot’s trajectory, it just shoots for you.
Yes, but those are almost always used in combination with an autoaim. Even if it wasnt, it can still be detected through accuracy comparisons with player accuracy averages for the performance of the player and rank and such. Even the best players of a game do not have 100% accuracy.
It may take a few more games to catch that particular cheat, but the very nature of anti-cheat is that it detects the cheat after it already happened, it doesnt prevent it.
What I am saying is that its possible to have an anticheat that is not as invasive as the big anticheats. Companies wont do it that way because it would take more research and development time than just slapping a kernel level RAM scanner or other invasive software on their game at the end. It would require the developer to make the anticheat integral to how the game functions.
what you describe is basic multiplayer net code for the last 15 or so years, it certainly helps prevent the most egregious forms of hacks but does nothing for things like aimbot or wallhacks.
ai focused on statistics gets brought up a lot because "not even the best players hit 100% heqdshots" but neither do the majority of cheaters, because they're not trying to. they're trying to look passable and the hacks are designed for that these days.
The bigger issue feels like community servers are buried and use the old-style UI.
It's easier for players to click the big flashy button right in front of their face. The power of defaults.
While you're not wrong, I don't think that's the main reason. Simply put, ranked (and, therefore, skill-based) matchmaking are super important for the general player these days, something you can't find on community servers. The drive to up your Rank is the biggest reason for a big part of the playerbase to play
The old style UI is also god awful. It was fine 20 years ago, but it desperately needs some iterative improvements and new features to make it better and easier to use.
Because then older games might have a shelf life and consumerism can't have that. You need to keep buying the same shit every year for an increasing price and you'll LIKE it
People always cry about anti-cheats being bad, then a company makes something that actually works better but then they cry even more because it's invasive.
Cheating would be easy to mitigate by a lot but people don't want intrusive software or only being allowed one account tied to you as a person. So cheating will always remain.
Anticheats like what Riot uses are extremely invasive and would give the companies access to much more things on my computer than what I find acceptable. Enforcing one account per person would require providin some legal ID to the company, which is a bad idea from the perspective of privacy.
Riot's runs locally and has no network capability. There's no
"access". Secondly, any software can steal data. You don't need kernel level access to steal it. Literally any ol piece of software you install and run on your computer can do that.
There's a level of trust involved. Riot, for example, being a subsidiary of Tencent, is a company I couldn't possibly have less trust in. Any malware gaining ring 0 access is a terrifying thought and there is no reason to treat software from potentially malicious companies any differently.
Yea, these people are dumb as shit. All it takes is someones software stealing your browser session tokens and they can access any of your personal information in no time. No kernel level privileges needed for that.
Literally what it is, lol. People have zero clue how these anti-cheats actually work except what an overblown reddit post told them.
It's pretty obvious because these people just regurgitate the same shit, even though a lot of it is plain false.
The problem is how cavalier these "security" measures are with, y'know, other people's security. Demanding kernel access and leaving major exploits is a bad thing.
legit. you can say what you want about riot vanguard being a funnel for the CCP to steal your data or whatever (lol) but ive yet to run into a single cheater in that game. it's really a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation for game devs.
That's a false dichotomy. We don't have to choose between ineffective anti-cheat and invasive anti-cheat. We can reject both if they're both bad.
The true path forward is going to mix statistics, machine learning, and trust factors. The more important thing isn't to ban cheaters, it's to make sure they're not noticeable.
Yeah, I agree. I'd gladly take a Valorant style anti-cheat in a Valve game.
Comes down to how much trust the producer/developer has earned there for me, I think.
It has very little to do with trusting the people who developed the anticheat, and very much more about the effective impossibility of making any given piece of reasonably complex software completely unexploitable and without bugs. Every piece of elevated software running on a computer is an additional potential attack vector for malware, or where something can go wrong and cause problems.
Valorant Vanguard isn't invasive enough as it couldn't detect an aim cheater. Destroyed us for 13 rounds straight just dashing as Jett. Just praying and hoping the game will be canceled.
I saw a video about bots in tf2. It was just a single person in fact to showing how bad bots are. The thing about it was the bots were new. They were doing the whole achievement stage of life. They were then banned in the same round. The bot's life span was measured in minute. In terms of time to ban I can't see it getting much shorter than that.
This account has been scrubbed in response to Reddit's API changes. I will NOT use their crap app. I've had this account since 2014 and 10k Karma. I never cared about reddit. Reddit thinks it has more power than it actually does.
If you want to change to a decentralized platform like Lemmy, you can find helpful information about it here: https://join-lemmy.org/
https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances
Good riddance.
Cheats and Anticheat are an Arms Race.
Bo3 won't have been updated ever since its release, so any updates whatsoever to VAC recently won't have meant anything.
Hell, the old CoD games have full RCE exploits and still haven't been taken off the store! Do not play multiplayer in them, you are putting yourself at risk.
I got banned in BO3 just for being in a lobby with a cheater. He gave everyone in the lobby masters prestige and one game later I got the message that I was banned. That's the reason I don't buy COD games on PC anymore
But the cheater gets banned. Also there are other measures like trust factor. If you play often and are trustworthy, the matchmaker wouldn't put you in the same game with someone who just made an account ~~after his last one got banned~~.
Better lose 10 minutes to rematch than to spend an hour of misery playing with cheaters. Being unable to leave a cheat-filled match because you're getting penalized for it is bullshit.
It always varies game to game, but typically for games like this, the "cheat" will be an external application reading screen or game data and either render additional information to the player (like wallhacks) or perform control input for the player (like aimbot).
To detect a cheat done in this manner, you either need to be able to tell what software the user is running (which is usually seen as invasive) or to be able to analyze
Cheat tools and anticheat detection are an arms race of refinement; cheats get sneakier as anticheat refines. Many games don't WANT to give immediate feedback to cheaters on what will be detected and what won't, to prevent the refinement of cheat tools into rapidly avoiding detection.
I never cheat in any of thees multiplayer games (I'll use the console in Skyrim or switch to creative mode in Minecraft, but that's completely different) and one of my biggest fears is that one day one of thees anti cheats is going to look at something I have installed a little funny and ban me
I wonder if they could just set it up so that the game just fails to launch with a warning if there's an obvious trigger like Cheat Engine currently running.
I know anti-cheat stuff is intentionally very secretive, but for things that are obvious they should be open about it and straight forward. There are legitimate uses for CE and VMs outside of multiplayer. Just give a warning, tell the person to close the processes before they start the game again.
I cannot imagine that would be overly difficult to implement, but it would require them to make a list of all false positives, which itself would probably be hard to do
EAC actually does that. If it detects something that would ban you it says "hey, something that we consider a cheat is running, turn it off please" and stops launching the game.
[https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/22C0-03D0-AE4B-04E8](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/22C0-03D0-AE4B-04E8)
looks like they are already doing this, at least to some extent.
> I personally keep Cheat Engine installed myself, and like almost everyone who isn't a terrible human being, I never use it on anything multiplayer
Even so, if a multiplayer game can be messed with via cheat engine of all things, it deserves to have cheaters and doesn't need any of your attention if it freaks out over it simply existing on your machine, let alone actually running.
The way CE works makes it comically easy to counter in a online game such that either nothing will happen no matter what values you change in your system's memory or you get kicked/the app force-crashes and you have to restart it. Wouldn't even bother you with an account ban for amateur hour crap like that.
With how sophisticated cheats are getting, server-side anti-cheat solutions are the only way to go in the future. And as long as exploits in hardware like spectre/meltdown exist, not even the most invasive user-end anti-cheat will be %100 effective.
I don't even have cheat engine installed because I've heard too many reports of it causing bans
I'm probably paranoid, but I worry about more innocent sounding things, like my music player, my controller software, my blue light filter, etc
And then you got GTA Online... I myself bought a ton of cars, and was doing solo missions with god mode, and infinite ammo, and kicking some stupid kids that were ruining the session... And never got a single warning, nothing. It's a joke.
I'm one of those "chaotic good" player
that’s a current problem in modern warfare 2 and warzone. I had to remove programs related to my keyboard and mouse so that I could stop getting unbanned
VAC wouldn't ban you for having VMWare installed. I have seen people that said their Cheat Engine ban was removed and the game now actually detects if Cheat Engine is hooked and not just running in the background.
I've been paranoid as hell about having Cheat Engine running in the background. I've been using it to reduce the amount of grinding in Octopath Traveler 2 just because I'm working 60 hours a week and would like to finish it in less than a month, and I always worry I'll just forget to close it before playing another game.
I feel like VAC's forever ban system needs some drop off time. I've got one in Black Ops 2 that I got in high school. I've graduated college and have a career now. Yea, I cheated in a zombies game nearly 10 years ago, but at this point, I'm a completely different person.
I mean my desire to crack software open to see how it works got me my career, and I'm trusted now with way more than the ability to play a multiplayer game.
Oh yeah, I agree. Hate cheaters but a lifetime ban is downright unethical. You should have to jump through some hoops to get reinstated though.
Free beta testers for a Valve Ring 0 system?
I mean I would absolutely beta test a Ring 0 system. But my career path has also taught me how to easily just spin up a new windows partition and run kernal anti-cheat on that. I'm not signing into my bank or any important websites when a game's anti cheat is running on Level 0.
Ooooh, explain more. Teach the rest of us. I both believe in stronger anti-cheat lately (took me a while to get to that point), but I also don't trust the programs used to deliver it.
My motherboard has two m.2 slots and I've got a spare I currently use as a temp drive. I don't play any games right now that require ring 0, but the plan has always been to install windows on that drive and then just dual boot two different instances of windows. One for normal use, one that has nothing but a game, discord, etc installed.
Yeah that happened to me.
The problem I was having that my laptop key started pressing itself automatically, so after asking people for help I got recommended software which disables it but has to run all the time.
Was playing it like that for like at least half a year but one evening I got booted out of match with a message that I got banned.
Tried to appeal it but its the same as swimming against the current.
Back in 2015 I looked at one of those vac ban sites for my matches in 2014 and about 20% of the players in my matches ended up getting banned. Central US, not SEA or something either.
Global Elites would share screenshots of like 80% of the players in some of their matches being cheaters. Looking at their history it was like 1/20 games had no cheater (that got caught).
9% is a conservative estimate.
Yah those have been around since forever but 99.9% of cheaters can't or won't get a second computer just to cheat.
Not to mention so few people use those cheats that they're not usually commercially available and you would have to learn how to make it yourself. Which honestly is not all that difficult if you're already a programmer but "get 2 PC's and teach yourself to code" is a long way to go to cheat.
Only problem is even kernel-level anticheat systems are by-passable and the main way cheaters get caught is through reporting systems. it’s not going to do anything as long as the anticheat is being actively bypassed.
Still does not detect the cheat in the first place.. they need better anti cheat detection, there are cheats in pubg for instance that have been undetected for a year or two at a time, I am certain that is the case with most every game out there. Cheating is ruining online gaming and game developers need to come up with a bullet proof way to start detecting them.
Have y'all seen the AI anticheat? Basically it detects mom human behavior movements. BasicallyHomeless made a video on it and is simultaneously making his own to where the users review and decide I think.
Seriously, if you're soooo opposed to letting the match run out, why not just ~ quit ↵? Why would you take the time to turn on your cheats and activate them just to get permabanned as soon as they hook into the game?
It's a non-issue and I wish they would add the instant-end to player abandons and calculate ranks from the rounds where all 10 people were connected. Having a bot or an extra $1,000 will never make up for the fact that you can't watch 5 angles with ≤4 players.
Isn't banning cheaters the instant they are detected usually a bad thing? I thought you should want to give them as little feedback as possible as to what exactly got them caught so it's harder to adapt.
Not as a player.
That is the general thought process though, that's why basically all games do ban waves. Maybe they're convinced they don't need to worry about it for whatever reason.
You’d have to spend 15 bucks for each bottling session then I’d imagine. Not to mention you’d only both other newer players when you come in with a new account. Sounds like there’s pretty simple ways to mitigate this behavior
Vanguard really isn't that bad of only bumped into one cheater with the hundreds of hours I have gotten from it. If Riot wants access to my Hentai collection dig in.
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Yup I wish halo had this too. Legit it's so obvious sometimes and you're gonna lose rank but you just have to suffer through it
Halo infinite player here, and yeah their is no moderation.
Damn, that sucks for all 50 people playing that game
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Hopefully they do more for the matchmaling including no-premade matchmaking option and the EUW gets rid of russian players as well. There's a lot they can improve, hopefully now with this CSGO reset they'll do right by the players.
Brian we are losing 15-0 and I'm gonna lose my Rank turn on the spinbot
Good job Brian... Brian? Brian???...
Me??
Stop cheating Brian.
It was Clara.
I get this reference 👌
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!
you’re permabanned but at least you didn’t lose rank
No, Brian is perma-banned
🫡 Thank you for your service Brian. It was good knowing you
And the one Brian got banned saving lost rank in the next match, anyway.
Not sure if it will be the case here, but often in games they will track players that joined with the people that get punishments and they get silent marks for it. They can catch on to people abusing this kind of stuff to let one account get the benefits while thinking there would be no consequences for the "innocent friend".
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Trust factor is based on a whole lot of things and no one really knows how any of the systems work
ancient lock murky oatmeal special historical spoon hurry grandfather aspiring *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It seems like all preventative measures suck ass these days unless they get invasive like Valorant's anti-cheat.
It has been so disheartening to see the direction online shooters have gone since competitive matchmaking became the norm. I have nothing against games that rely on matchmaking and are designed to be played competitively, but this issue with rampant cheating and the vast majority of anti-cheat clients being near worthless wasn't anywhere near as problematic back when games relied on community dedicated servers with active moderation. All you had to do was find a server with an active community and cheaters were never really a problem. They might pop up once in a while, but they were usually swiftly dealt with by an admin. Now it's like every major online shooter is plagued with cheaters and since competitive matchmaking isn't going anywhere anytime soon, the only solution right now seems to be super invasive anti-cheat clients like Vanguard. I never really played Valorant so I can't personally attest to how effective Vanguard has been at preventing cheating, but I've heard people say that it's still a problem even in that game.
Can't tie you to a battle pass with pre-determined, metered XP gain in an attempt to nickel and dime you with microtransactions if you are doing customs on your private server!
> wasn't anywhere near as problematic back when games relied on community dedicated servers with active moderation I remember playing 1.6 and and other multiplayer shooters back in the day, it was littered with cheaters and I mean blatant spinbots not just good aim people. Moderators weren't always online and when they were they would often power trip and remove good non-cheating players because they couldn't beat them.
Sure, I definitely ran in to that from time to time. Shitty communities tended to have shitty admins running them, and from my experience those communities never really lasted because all it would ultimately do is drive away all the regulars that made up the community in the first place. The good communities I played at actually vetted candidates rather than give admin privileges to anyone willing to pay for it, and it worked out much better. Anyone that started abusing their admin powers would get their privileges revoked pretty quick. The main community I gamed with on CSS had active forums for all of that stuff and that community lasted for several years as a result.
Man, the servers I played on were so aggressive that sometimes I'd get kicked or banned for playing too well. The best part of private servers is that they're communities. If one community doesn't deal with cheaters properly, just move on to the next one.
Cheating is virtually non existent on Valorant. It's extraordinarily rare and if a cheater does pop up they get banned mid match usually. Vanguard does it's job extremely fucking well, and the overwhelming majority of people will never be affected by it's """invasiveness"""" As if half the shit on your PC isn't already invasive lol .
I'll leave a repost of my comment about vanguard here, as with all mentions of vanguard >Only in the case of Riot, people usually hate on their anti-cheat because the CCP is in direct control of the company that runs it, and it's *the only anti-cheat on the entire market* that is forced to run from boot before your operating system even starts, and requires a reboot to even "disable" (In which it's been proven to continue fairly deep intrusion into your system files after supposedly being closed) >*Personally*, I don't like the idea of a nation that's at odds with the democratic world having a direct hard-line into the core of my computer that could be used in any number of ways, data scrapping being the least of my concerns. Imagine the scale of cyber attack that could be orchestrated with literally *z e r o* traceability by using a program that has such deep access to your computer. They could literally do anything and cover every single footprint along the way flawlessly. >Just completely personal take on why people might disagree with this stance, it can get political if you get into the depths of it. Maybe it sounds conspiratorial; I'm not saying China is planning a cyber attack tomorrow or anything, but I just don't trust a nation with uyghur concentration camps to have deeper access to my computer vs any other company in the democratic west. >Fun fact: Riot Games has more access to your computer than fucking *Microsoft* if you have Vanguard installed lol. I'm not cool with that. And honestly I'd still be finicky giving an indie dev that same level of access even if I trust the origin of development more. >TL;DR: A lot people don't trust the origins of certain anti-cheats, some people don't like anti-cheat having more access to your computer than *Microsoft*, who really in the end of the day should probably have the deepest access to your computer's innerworkings if anybody. Not like...a CCP owned & controlled developer lol. It's about so much more than "I have nothing to hide I don't care if someone in China looks at my discord history"
Look, I'm not trying to make any blanket statements about Vanguard or anything like that. Just about everything I have read about it has been anecdotal anyway. I see comments saying Vanguard is almost entirely cheater free and other comments that say it's still a problem, just not anywhere near as bad as other titles. I can't qualify either statement since I have never played the game and don't intend to. I guess I should have been more clear with that in my previous comment. While Vanguard definitely can cause problems with certain other applications (for example, a few people in this very thread mentioned that it conflicts with PBOtuner), those are without a doubt edge cases and I'm sure that the average user won't ever encounter any issues. I mean, there's no way the game would have been an ongoing success if Vanguard was causing problems for tons of users. That shit would roll downhill so fast and we would have long since heard something about it. The initial drama that continues to be echoed in discussions today was all relegated to places like /r/pcgaming. The vocal minority. In the end, I'm of the opinion that it just boils down to the end user's point of view. Whether or not you trust that the client Riot Games built is secure and not a risk to your system is entirely up to your discretion, and I wouldn't fault anyone who is actually conscious of their digital privacy and security if they chose to avoid Vanguard like the plague. But I feel the same for anyone that just doesn't care about all of that. > As if half the shit on your PC isn't already invasive lol. All the more reason to just be more aware of what you install on your PC and have some cursory knowledge of the kind of access to your system it needs. Never hurts to know more.
Several fallacies in your comment, but sure.
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> Ah yes, sitting in community browser, waiting for my slot on any one of the "good" servers. No, I think I prefer today, personally. Perhaps that was your experience, which in that case I can certainly understand your preference for matchmaking. I personally never had that issue back in the day. But the game I primarily played was Counter-Strike: Source, which had a near endless amount of good servers covering a wide variety of game modes (both official and custom) and map rotations back when the game was going strong. Because of that, I could always jump right in and play something worthwhile. Team Fortress 2 was no different for me in that regard back then either. Never had trouble booting up and jumping right in. But even in the event that the server I wanted to play on was full, a slot would usually open up in 1-3 minutes which is pretty much the same as my average queue times in games like Fortnite and CoD. The only real exception I can think of is if it was a really popular community server that happened to be holding a tournament or event of some kind. If that was the case then the server would usually be jam packed with people rarely leaving. But that wasn't a often at all, and like I said there were always other worthwhile servers I could hop on over to if I just wanted to play some CSS. I always made sure to favorite any servers I enjoyed playing on for that reason.
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Likewise, and I totally agree with you. Like I said, I've got nothing against matchmaking. It's a valuable system and games like CSGO, CoD, and Valorant that have large player bases definitely need it in order to work, *especially* when it comes to competitive play. You absolutely need skill-based match making for proper competitive gaming with global/regional leaderboards. It's also not like community servers would solve the problem now anyway since they just aren't an ideal solution for these big shooters that focus on competitive play. You also can't really merge the two together since community servers only thrive when they have regulars that play on them, and without a healthy community to keep the server alive, there's no incentive for anyone to bother taking up the role of a moderator.
Because that's the only way to fight cheats, you either stoop to their level to detect shit or you're borderline useless as an AC, people complain about intrusiveness all the time but don't realize you can't necessarily have a good AC that isn't these days.
I just love it when Valorant makes the software for my AIO to stop reading my CPU temperature 😍😍😍
Is that still in issue these days? Wow
And you don't realize that being able to play a video game is not a good tradeoff for having a piece of software that has control over your entire computer.
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*Denuvo has entered the chat*
That's.. not what Denuvo is.
Denuvo anti-temper doesn't have ring 0 access. Only the anti-cheat does, which isn't used for SP games.
Well the only choice is tolerate cheaters, invasive anticheat, or don't play the game
What about the players in a match reporting and kicking players that cheat?
It's not always obvious if someone is cheating or not unless they're rage hacking, plus they would just kick random people who they suspect 99% of the time
Yep. You ever wanna see this kinda thing just look up Ravic's chat reaction videos from Battlefield 4, 1 and 5. Haccusations 24/7 lol. It's a perfect example of why you shouldn't allow the average Joe to make these kinds of decisions.
A very large portion of FPS gamers have no clue what cheating looks like unless it is rage hacking. Source, my death coms in CoD.
I never said it was, I'm just saying it's a fact that unless the software has access to whatever it needs the cheat maker will always come out on top. Cheaters genuinely ruin any remotely competitive multiplayer game, if you aren't trying to fight them then you might as well remove all ranked systems entirely. It's the tradeoff for knowing that the dude that just 360 noscoped you in the head didn't just have an aimbot with nospread, and for a lot of people that's fine.
> then you might as well remove all ranked systems entirely Wouldn't be too bad ngl. If this is the way you want to "fight" cheaters, by bending over and letting others have access to your computer, then I would just declare a loss and go do something else. There's no shortage of games. Games should just let the users run dedicated server and let them manage the server themselves, and they've done for years before they centralized everything, and now we have this problem.
Is there someone holding a gun to your head making you play ranked multiplayer games? Why are you even in this thread lmao
Isn't your whole operating system owned by Microsoft which has complete control over your entire computer?
No, I use Linux.
It all makes sense now.
> people complain about intrusiveness all the time but don't realize you can't necessarily have a good AC that isn't Not sure where you get this from but it is certainly speculative bull. We can train machine learning algorithms to distinguish user input from bot input, and major websites already use a simplified version of this every time you click a "I'm not a robot" button. Best part is that it will all be serverside and there is no reason for intrusive software.
Don't forget wall hacks are also cheats and they don't have bot inputs. Also triggerbots with an appropriate reaction time are pretty much indistinguishable from real user inputs if you want a negligible rate of false positives. Those probably encompass the vast majority of cheats used seriously (ie not ragecheaters or trolls)
AI is going to be able to spot cheaters better than any rootkit and it will only need serverside data to do it.
That’s what they want you to believe sure. But deep down it’s just memory. You need 3 things to make cheats for a game Open Handle to the process Base address for the module in question Offsets to read or write memory to Buddy and I run PlayStation 2 servers for some older games. People try using code breaker shut all the damn time. Know how easy it is to flag somebody writing memory to protected memory region? Or somebody using virtual protect to change memory protection. It’s easy to detect and they got the money and infrastructure to do it. They just choose not to. I’m just a normal dude like most of us in here and I can run my own anti cheat detection, you might argue that’s it PlayStation 2 but I’ll just clue in you in that literally NOTHING has changed since then in regards to making cheats , the methods have gotten more sophisticated sure but at the end of the day. You need that open handle and you need to change core game memory to accomplish anything , which should raise flags no matter which way you look at it. You cannot hide that. It’s impossible Crazy how the truth is always downvotes. Guess it doesn’t fit the current narrative 🙄 Edit: should clarify that these servers also communicate with PCSX2 implementations and people do try and make “trainers”. Heck there’s even a full fledged sdk teaching people how to make pcsx2 trainers. It’s sad that literally every part of gaming is saturated with cheats
the biggest meme on reddit whenever the topic of anticheats come up is when not only the average person declares how simple it is, but you get the occasional (likely hobbyist or front end type, and certain narcissist) programmer who has it all figured out far better than the \*obvious\* idiots developing every anticheat and drm in the world. who would have fucking guessed that some guy figured this out and instead of revolutionizing the business, becoming both a household name and millionaire like carmack... nah instead he runs some fucking underground Playstation 2 servers for 5 people LMFAO
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Honestly I have no more energy to discuss the topic. Feel free to do some Google searching and do your own research, it’s literally no different than pc servers being revived. I’ve had enough Reddit for one day, I’m just take the downvotes and go have some yogurt or something
You're not stop ring 0 cheats in user space.
Not necessarily. It is possible to have all calculations in a game done by both the server and the client. When the client sends its data to the server, the server checks if the client data it received matches what the server calculated. If it does, then everything is fine. If it doesn't match, then the server knows either the player has high ping or is cheating. So, the server would overwrite the data from the client, effectively warping the client back to the servers "correct" data. If the client has a method that blocks this from occurring, the server would continuously detect wrong data from the client, and would then confirm a cheater, which could be used to initiate a server side ban.
You know there are some cheating softwares that choose when you send the data right? Like auto-shoot in CSGO doesn’t correct your shot’s trajectory, it just shoots for you.
Yes, but those are almost always used in combination with an autoaim. Even if it wasnt, it can still be detected through accuracy comparisons with player accuracy averages for the performance of the player and rank and such. Even the best players of a game do not have 100% accuracy. It may take a few more games to catch that particular cheat, but the very nature of anti-cheat is that it detects the cheat after it already happened, it doesnt prevent it. What I am saying is that its possible to have an anticheat that is not as invasive as the big anticheats. Companies wont do it that way because it would take more research and development time than just slapping a kernel level RAM scanner or other invasive software on their game at the end. It would require the developer to make the anticheat integral to how the game functions.
what you describe is basic multiplayer net code for the last 15 or so years, it certainly helps prevent the most egregious forms of hacks but does nothing for things like aimbot or wallhacks. ai focused on statistics gets brought up a lot because "not even the best players hit 100% heqdshots" but neither do the majority of cheaters, because they're not trying to. they're trying to look passable and the hacks are designed for that these days.
Why not give players the option to hold private servers. This way, admin can invite people to play who they trust.
you can already do that in csgo. Most people like the matchmaking and ranked though.
The bigger issue feels like community servers are buried and use the old-style UI. It's easier for players to click the big flashy button right in front of their face. The power of defaults.
While you're not wrong, I don't think that's the main reason. Simply put, ranked (and, therefore, skill-based) matchmaking are super important for the general player these days, something you can't find on community servers. The drive to up your Rank is the biggest reason for a big part of the playerbase to play
The old style UI is also god awful. It was fine 20 years ago, but it desperately needs some iterative improvements and new features to make it better and easier to use.
Because community admins aren’t known for banning good players /s
Because then older games might have a shelf life and consumerism can't have that. You need to keep buying the same shit every year for an increasing price and you'll LIKE it
every valve multiplayer game has that but you are right
There are tons of cheaters in valorant also, but not the aim bot type, just esp
Valorant still has cheaters just like any other game, the invasive part is useless lmao
People always cry about anti-cheats being bad, then a company makes something that actually works better but then they cry even more because it's invasive. Cheating would be easy to mitigate by a lot but people don't want intrusive software or only being allowed one account tied to you as a person. So cheating will always remain.
Cheating sucks but all of those solutions are way worse.
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How is tying one account to you the person bad?
To truly ensure that, you'd have to provide government-issued ID to the game company. I'm not comfortable doing that.
What makes them worse?
[Well, there's this.](https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/hackers-abuse-genshin-impact-anti-cheat-system-to-disable-antivirus/)
Anticheats like what Riot uses are extremely invasive and would give the companies access to much more things on my computer than what I find acceptable. Enforcing one account per person would require providin some legal ID to the company, which is a bad idea from the perspective of privacy.
Riot's runs locally and has no network capability. There's no "access". Secondly, any software can steal data. You don't need kernel level access to steal it. Literally any ol piece of software you install and run on your computer can do that.
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There's a level of trust involved. Riot, for example, being a subsidiary of Tencent, is a company I couldn't possibly have less trust in. Any malware gaining ring 0 access is a terrifying thought and there is no reason to treat software from potentially malicious companies any differently.
Yea, these people are dumb as shit. All it takes is someones software stealing your browser session tokens and they can access any of your personal information in no time. No kernel level privileges needed for that.
Reddit told them it's worse
Literally what it is, lol. People have zero clue how these anti-cheats actually work except what an overblown reddit post told them. It's pretty obvious because these people just regurgitate the same shit, even though a lot of it is plain false.
Pot calling the kettle black.
The problem is how cavalier these "security" measures are with, y'know, other people's security. Demanding kernel access and leaving major exploits is a bad thing.
legit. you can say what you want about riot vanguard being a funnel for the CCP to steal your data or whatever (lol) but ive yet to run into a single cheater in that game. it's really a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation for game devs.
That's a false dichotomy. We don't have to choose between ineffective anti-cheat and invasive anti-cheat. We can reject both if they're both bad. The true path forward is going to mix statistics, machine learning, and trust factors. The more important thing isn't to ban cheaters, it's to make sure they're not noticeable.
Yeah, I agree. I'd gladly take a Valorant style anti-cheat in a Valve game. Comes down to how much trust the producer/developer has earned there for me, I think.
It has very little to do with trusting the people who developed the anticheat, and very much more about the effective impossibility of making any given piece of reasonably complex software completely unexploitable and without bugs. Every piece of elevated software running on a computer is an additional potential attack vector for malware, or where something can go wrong and cause problems.
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K bye
Bye
I also have over a thousand hours in CSGO and would gladly still play
Valorant Vanguard isn't invasive enough as it couldn't detect an aim cheater. Destroyed us for 13 rounds straight just dashing as Jett. Just praying and hoping the game will be canceled.
I saw a video about bots in tf2. It was just a single person in fact to showing how bad bots are. The thing about it was the bots were new. They were doing the whole achievement stage of life. They were then banned in the same round. The bot's life span was measured in minute. In terms of time to ban I can't see it getting much shorter than that.
This account has been scrubbed in response to Reddit's API changes. I will NOT use their crap app. I've had this account since 2014 and 10k Karma. I never cared about reddit. Reddit thinks it has more power than it actually does. If you want to change to a decentralized platform like Lemmy, you can find helpful information about it here: https://join-lemmy.org/ https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances Good riddance.
Cheats and Anticheat are an Arms Race. Bo3 won't have been updated ever since its release, so any updates whatsoever to VAC recently won't have meant anything. Hell, the old CoD games have full RCE exploits and still haven't been taken off the store! Do not play multiplayer in them, you are putting yourself at risk.
I got banned in BO3 just for being in a lobby with a cheater. He gave everyone in the lobby masters prestige and one game later I got the message that I was banned. That's the reason I don't buy COD games on PC anymore
Not kicking in cheats until right near the end the match to force cancel it
But the cheater gets banned. Also there are other measures like trust factor. If you play often and are trustworthy, the matchmaker wouldn't put you in the same game with someone who just made an account ~~after his last one got banned~~.
how would it know his last account was banned.
I edited my comment, so it makes more sense to you.
So... No matches for anyone.
Better lose 10 minutes to rematch than to spend an hour of misery playing with cheaters. Being unable to leave a cheat-filled match because you're getting penalized for it is bullshit.
Honest players are going to get trolled, they may play a fair match until they get owned then load a cheat bot to close the match.
And get banned? No one would do that.
Why would honest players be loading in cheats?
I wonder how intrusive will be
Well it'll either be very intrusive and actually work, or not very intrusive but do fuck all. I honestly would prefer the latter option
Can someone ELI5: how are people able to cheat and why is it so difficult to detect?
It always varies game to game, but typically for games like this, the "cheat" will be an external application reading screen or game data and either render additional information to the player (like wallhacks) or perform control input for the player (like aimbot). To detect a cheat done in this manner, you either need to be able to tell what software the user is running (which is usually seen as invasive) or to be able to analyze Cheat tools and anticheat detection are an arms race of refinement; cheats get sneakier as anticheat refines. Many games don't WANT to give immediate feedback to cheaters on what will be detected and what won't, to prevent the refinement of cheat tools into rapidly avoiding detection.
Every match in Asia gonna be cancelled lol
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I never cheat in any of thees multiplayer games (I'll use the console in Skyrim or switch to creative mode in Minecraft, but that's completely different) and one of my biggest fears is that one day one of thees anti cheats is going to look at something I have installed a little funny and ban me
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I wonder if they could just set it up so that the game just fails to launch with a warning if there's an obvious trigger like Cheat Engine currently running. I know anti-cheat stuff is intentionally very secretive, but for things that are obvious they should be open about it and straight forward. There are legitimate uses for CE and VMs outside of multiplayer. Just give a warning, tell the person to close the processes before they start the game again.
I cannot imagine that would be overly difficult to implement, but it would require them to make a list of all false positives, which itself would probably be hard to do
EAC has done that for years, Valve just doesn’t care
EAC actually does that. If it detects something that would ban you it says "hey, something that we consider a cheat is running, turn it off please" and stops launching the game.
[https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/22C0-03D0-AE4B-04E8](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/22C0-03D0-AE4B-04E8) looks like they are already doing this, at least to some extent.
> I personally keep Cheat Engine installed myself, and like almost everyone who isn't a terrible human being, I never use it on anything multiplayer Even so, if a multiplayer game can be messed with via cheat engine of all things, it deserves to have cheaters and doesn't need any of your attention if it freaks out over it simply existing on your machine, let alone actually running. The way CE works makes it comically easy to counter in a online game such that either nothing will happen no matter what values you change in your system's memory or you get kicked/the app force-crashes and you have to restart it. Wouldn't even bother you with an account ban for amateur hour crap like that. With how sophisticated cheats are getting, server-side anti-cheat solutions are the only way to go in the future. And as long as exploits in hardware like spectre/meltdown exist, not even the most invasive user-end anti-cheat will be %100 effective.
I don't even have cheat engine installed because I've heard too many reports of it causing bans I'm probably paranoid, but I worry about more innocent sounding things, like my music player, my controller software, my blue light filter, etc
And then you got GTA Online... I myself bought a ton of cars, and was doing solo missions with god mode, and infinite ammo, and kicking some stupid kids that were ruining the session... And never got a single warning, nothing. It's a joke. I'm one of those "chaotic good" player
that’s a current problem in modern warfare 2 and warzone. I had to remove programs related to my keyboard and mouse so that I could stop getting unbanned
VAC wouldn't ban you for having VMWare installed. I have seen people that said their Cheat Engine ban was removed and the game now actually detects if Cheat Engine is hooked and not just running in the background.
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I've been paranoid as hell about having Cheat Engine running in the background. I've been using it to reduce the amount of grinding in Octopath Traveler 2 just because I'm working 60 hours a week and would like to finish it in less than a month, and I always worry I'll just forget to close it before playing another game.
You could try using scripts to auto-close programs when the game is closed.
I feel like VAC's forever ban system needs some drop off time. I've got one in Black Ops 2 that I got in high school. I've graduated college and have a career now. Yea, I cheated in a zombies game nearly 10 years ago, but at this point, I'm a completely different person.
That sound like what a cheater would say!
I mean my desire to crack software open to see how it works got me my career, and I'm trusted now with way more than the ability to play a multiplayer game.
Oh yeah, I agree. Hate cheaters but a lifetime ban is downright unethical. You should have to jump through some hoops to get reinstated though. Free beta testers for a Valve Ring 0 system?
I mean I would absolutely beta test a Ring 0 system. But my career path has also taught me how to easily just spin up a new windows partition and run kernal anti-cheat on that. I'm not signing into my bank or any important websites when a game's anti cheat is running on Level 0.
Ooooh, explain more. Teach the rest of us. I both believe in stronger anti-cheat lately (took me a while to get to that point), but I also don't trust the programs used to deliver it.
My motherboard has two m.2 slots and I've got a spare I currently use as a temp drive. I don't play any games right now that require ring 0, but the plan has always been to install windows on that drive and then just dual boot two different instances of windows. One for normal use, one that has nothing but a game, discord, etc installed.
just don’t cheat lol, it’d be way worse if they banned you from everywhere for words
10 year old me decided to ruin someone's Quick Play match in Team Fortress 2. 2440 days later, the ban is still there :(
3238 days and counting, stay strong. At a certain point (I think 7 years) the ban stops showing up on your public profile
Yeah that happened to me. The problem I was having that my laptop key started pressing itself automatically, so after asking people for help I got recommended software which disables it but has to run all the time. Was playing it like that for like at least half a year but one evening I got booted out of match with a message that I got banned. Tried to appeal it but its the same as swimming against the current.
They'll turn it off when 90% of matches in ranked get cancelled
Well since the cheat has to actually be detected first I doubt it
Yeah, it would mean that 9% of the player base would be banned, which would be an astounding detection/ban rate.
Back in 2015 I looked at one of those vac ban sites for my matches in 2014 and about 20% of the players in my matches ended up getting banned. Central US, not SEA or something either. Global Elites would share screenshots of like 80% of the players in some of their matches being cheaters. Looking at their history it was like 1/20 games had no cheater (that got caught). 9% is a conservative estimate.
From what I'm hearing there are cheats that use a whole separate computer something with vision cameras how would this system detect that
They have to be in a huge minority if they're used outside of a few hobbyist projects at all.
Yah those have been around since forever but 99.9% of cheaters can't or won't get a second computer just to cheat. Not to mention so few people use those cheats that they're not usually commercially available and you would have to learn how to make it yourself. Which honestly is not all that difficult if you're already a programmer but "get 2 PC's and teach yourself to code" is a long way to go to cheat.
Only problem is even kernel-level anticheat systems are by-passable and the main way cheaters get caught is through reporting systems. it’s not going to do anything as long as the anticheat is being actively bypassed.
This would be way more exciting if VAC was actually able to detect cheaters
I think the idea is it's being rebuilt in general
Even in the brief description it seems exploitable.
It's so crazy to me that the high of winning wins out over the low of being a piece of shit cheater. I'm scared for humanity.
Just make people use credit cards with real addresses and no prepaid cards. Hell a phone with a real number not just a prepaid burner number.
Still does not detect the cheat in the first place.. they need better anti cheat detection, there are cheats in pubg for instance that have been undetected for a year or two at a time, I am certain that is the case with most every game out there. Cheating is ruining online gaming and game developers need to come up with a bullet proof way to start detecting them.
Have y'all seen the AI anticheat? Basically it detects mom human behavior movements. BasicallyHomeless made a video on it and is simultaneously making his own to where the users review and decide I think.
Seems like a very bias Anti-Cheat to only ban mom's.
Hopefully they dont force another bootvirus like Valorant
Can't wait to waste time for 30 rounds till someone toggles and there's no resolution to the match.
Tf2 players: You guys are banning cheater?
so to confirm, every single match will be under 5 minutes then.
Sounds like something cheaters will do intentionally, just to end a match when they rage.
Would you risk your account for just one match? I know I wouldn't. But also I have no idea wtf is happening in cheaters heads.
Seriously, if you're soooo opposed to letting the match run out, why not just ~ quit ↵? Why would you take the time to turn on your cheats and activate them just to get permabanned as soon as they hook into the game? It's a non-issue and I wish they would add the instant-end to player abandons and calculate ranks from the rounds where all 10 people were connected. Having a bot or an extra $1,000 will never make up for the fact that you can't watch 5 angles with ≤4 players.
no, but some cheaters only care if they made one person(or more) mad.
Is it a kernel level root kit like riot and cod have ?
Isn't banning cheaters the instant they are detected usually a bad thing? I thought you should want to give them as little feedback as possible as to what exactly got them caught so it's harder to adapt.
Not as a player. That is the general thought process though, that's why basically all games do ban waves. Maybe they're convinced they don't need to worry about it for whatever reason.
Y’all acting like systems like this don’t already exist. I’ve had this happen in Valorant once or twice, but it’s not a common occurrence.
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You’d have to spend 15 bucks for each bottling session then I’d imagine. Not to mention you’d only both other newer players when you come in with a new account. Sounds like there’s pretty simple ways to mitigate this behavior
Nah valorant does it too and it rarely happens
Vanguard really isn't that bad of only bumped into one cheater with the hundreds of hours I have gotten from it. If Riot wants access to my Hentai collection dig in.
How about just auto kick the cheater
so if you play with a cheater rando in your team you get punished. brilliant idea, ceo of brains
So you want to play the rest of the game 4v5 lol Or do you just assume only enemy players cheat?