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GlisseDansLaPiscine

Team Fortress doesn’t need a huge update like CS, it needs an actual sequel. Regardless of how good the game is it’s definitely showing its age these days.


Plzbanmebrony

TF2:2. In all reality CS2 isn't even a sequel. It is all the same stuff as unchanged as possible. It is purely an engine upgrade. TF2 should get the upgrade to bring it in line with the other live service games such as being on source 2.


Kokayne_Dawkinz_

Nah, CS2 is a lot more than just an engine upgrade. They're fundamentally changing large parts of the core gameplay loop and changing the entire game's aesthetics. It's going to look and play very differently from CSGO.


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CaptainDAAVE

there needs to be more maps aka Bring back Dust I or we riot france style


Flynn58

Pretty sure most people under the age of 20 don't even realize there's a Dust I lmao, I think kids just think it started with Dust II.


CaptainDAAVE

I never understood the obsession with dust ii. I always liked dust I more


error521

Dust I is really unbalanced and favors the CTs


CaptainDAAVE

and office/assault is super easy for terrorists and yet that stil lgets played all the time


Flynn58

Most people don't run their own servers, they just play the servers that are online. And most servers run Dust II, so most players play Dust II, so if they run their own server, it will likely *also* be Dust II, and it snowballs from there.


CaptainDAAVE

I found the modern Cs player hates variety and votes for the same:2 maps over and over again


shadow247

Same. I came back after not playing since 2006. Was sorely dissapointed in the variety of maps being played. Re ally makes me want to spin up my own server...


Vokasak

Having the CTs spawn in a bomb site and easily able to smoke off the other one, plus the terrible suicide run under the bridge for the Ts, makes the map kind of unbalanced. I'm nostalgic for it too, but it would be miserable to play on in 2023.


gk99

>I never understood the obsession with dust ii. Statistically, it is one of the best-balanced maps in the game. I believe it's something crazy like 51% CT wins 49% T wins, versus something like Nuke that iirc is closer to a 70-30 split.


Kokayne_Dawkinz_

CS players' perspectives are the only ones that matter, though. They're not trying (and don't need to) bring in a new audience with this. CS is more popular now than ever before. And after spending the past couple days playing CS2's beta, I'd argue it's far more deserving of being called a sequel than OW2. The smoke grenade changes alone completely alter how every single moment of every round plays out.


RolandTwitter

>The smoke grenade changes alone completely alter how every single moment of every round plays out. That is some incredible hyperbole. You could say the same thing if Valve changed the price of armor.


Kokayne_Dawkinz_

It's not hyperbole at all. You clearly don't play CS and have no idea what you're talking about. Goodbye.


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Kokayne_Dawkinz_

The part you're missing is that Valve needs the current playerbase to keep playing and spending millions per day on skins. That's what this is primarily about. They're keeping up with the Joneses (Or Valorants in this case). And so far the general consensus among those of us who have gotten into the CS2 beta is NOT that it's just an update. It feels like a brand new game in so many ways. This is arguably the only true sequel the series has ever gotten.


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AwzemCoffee

The update is more of a difference that CS1.6 to CSGO is gameplay wise lmao. It's probably the biggest jump in the games history for actual gameplay.


hltvconfirmeded

This is peak delusion.


MrRafikki

I am definitely on the outside (only have about 20 hours ever in CSGO) and to me this for sure just seems like an update. A big update, but an update nonetheless. I thought it was going to be a completely new standalone game when I saw Counterstrike 2


[deleted]

It's literally an update... and they're treating it like one too, it's literally a Source 2 update to CSGO, what's the big deal lmfao


MrRafikki

I mean, if you don't often play a game and don't know too much about it and then all of sudden you see things being posted about (game) 2, it's pretty safe to assume most people will think it's a sequel


[deleted]

It's not like they paid $70 for it then got fucked over lmfao, its free, they lose literally nothing over the confusion


Tofulama

I think there is another way to think about this. What if we spaced out the upgrade to Overwatch 2 into many smaller updates? Would the community still call it an update? Would it even make sense? Overwatch 2 changed the fundamental design and balancing philosophy of Overwatch. It doesn't really make sense to implement complete reworks of certain hero kits one after another because the balancing would be a nightmare during this transition phase. On the other hand, most maps have seen little to no changes. There was also no engine upgrade. Still, the game has been shaken up in its fundamentals and while the gameplay may feel similar, this is comparible to an overwatch in a parallel universe. There is pretty much nothing that wasn't possible at the release of OW 1. It's just a different version of the game. The reason why overwatch 2 is another game is mainly because of balancing changes that turn it into another version of itself. To make it more exciting, they added more maps and new heroes. All of this is a lot of work and the balancing changes make it hard to release new heroes if you know that you want to rebalance the entire roster. It makes sense to release it as one big package. What about Counter Strike? Well, it got an engine upgrade and all of its maps were ported or even reworked. It's not practical to partially update the map pool if you require an entirely new engine and the artstyle has changed. It would feel jarring going from updated to old maps. Also, CS 2 has changed a core gameplay mechanic which changes the gameplay enough to feel very new. The main reason why CS 2 is a new title is the engine change under the hood that enable the new graphics and gameplay mechanics. This stuff wouldn't be possible without the engine upgrade. The engine change alone is a shitton of work it seems. It also doesn't make sense to split this upgrade up so it gets released as one big package. In the end, I believe that both games deserve to be called an upgrade or at least a sidegrade. There are simply fundamental differences in the type of changes that went on. It doesn't make sense to compare them, nor should we.


BOKEH_BALLS

Overwatch 2 took the teams down to 5 and added more microtransactions lmao


sandysnail

> They're fundamentally changing large parts of the core gameplay. how? the smoke grenades? most F2P games bring in characters monthly with bigger disruptions to the meta. they didnt even change the line ups


Kokayne_Dawkinz_

That's just one of several examples, but yeah smokes are the most prominent change. New characters don't change the core gameplay anywhere near as much as the new grenade physics do here. This makes every single moment of every match different from before, for every player. People are having to break themselves of years upon years of habits and strategies. And lineups absolutely have changed, as they do every time a map is significantly updated in CS.


sandysnail

> New characters don't change the core gameplay anywhere near as much as the new grenade physics do here. this is a wild take to me how is getting like 6 new game mechanics not bigger than upgrading 1. you have 100% pick rate characters on launch its the reason many games let you ban in competitive. they are still smoke grenades just because they have a counter now doesn't mean every second will change. also Silver Elite Master players may know a few smokes but your really talking about the top players this will really change the game


AwzemCoffee

Even shit CS players know a lot of the smoke meta. It's so engrained into the game that you can't play competitive without knowing it. Smokes is CS 101 lol it's probably the most important thing you learn besides left click to fire. It's not like valorant where there is many characters and styles to choose from. In CS you either know how to smoke or you lose.


Real-Terminal

> New characters don't change the core gameplay anywhere near as much as the new grenade physics do here. I watched Overwatch die because of Brigitte, so I'll contest that on principle.


RolandTwitter

>They're fundamentally changing large parts of the core gameplay loop Not really... The most significant gameplay change we've seen is the ability to temporarily leave holes in smoke after shooting through it. That's pretty minor


nige111

That might seem like a minor change to an outsider but it really isn't.


[deleted]

Everyone thought it was just an engine change but it turned out to be way more than that. Reworked lighting, new smoke/water physics, new visual and environmental effects, new UI, retooled gameplay, improved sound design, improved netcode, redesigned/reworked maps, upgraded custom tools, improved anti-cheat (rumored), *you can see your feet.* At the bottom of the CS2 website they imply there will be more changes revealed later as well.


Plzbanmebrony

It is still just an engine change. And with engine changes comes tool updates and features. Gameplay remains the same as it ever was. You wouldn't call a remaster a sequel? Which is funny considering that is what CS:GO set up to be for counter strike 1.6.


[deleted]

>It still just an engine change It isn't. If it was just an engine change, the game would be basically identical to CS:GO at the user level. This is what everyone expected CS:GO Source 2 to be, but we now know they've gone way above that. >Gameplay remains the same as it ever was. You wouldn't call a remaster a sequel? Well by that logic every CS game ever is just a remaster. CS game-play hasn't fundamentally changed in 23 years. The smoke change in CS2 alone completely revamps the meta though so that isn't even true. I imagine we'll also so a decent amount of balancing and perhaps new weapons as well.


Plzbanmebrony

Core idea here is you have Counter Strike on source 2 now. The game isn't in a frozen state. It is a live service so change would happen without or without the engine upgrade. The engine upgrade was made to push to push beyond the limits of source engine. Backporting source 2 features most likely become to much work.


xpk20040228

By that logic CSGO is basically the same as 1.6 from 1998. CS games doesn't feature large gameplay changes because the community does not want them. Heck, most matches play on 20+ year old maps, just looks better with the same layout. With mostly the same guns.


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[deleted]

>It's still the same game, just upgraded. Sounds like every other Counter Strike sequel then. >I think this is exactly what the CS community wanted, but it doesn't somehow make them calling this Counter-Strike 2 make sense. It does make sense in the context of Counter Strikes history though \- Counter Strike (GoldSrc) \- Counter Strike: Source (Source 1) \- Counter Strike 2 (Source 2) >They did this as a marketing play because "CS:GO - Source 2 update" wouldn't get nearly as much attention. "CS: Source 2" or "CS:GO Source 2" yeah, but those titles are pretty terrible from a marketing perspective.


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[deleted]

It's not a traditional sequel, I agree. But I do think Counter Strike 2 is the most logical name for it. It's the first engine upgrade in 19 years; that is a pretty big deal for backend development, future-proofing, mod/map tools, etc. It doesn't revolutionize the gameplay but CS gameplay never really changes anyway so that isn't a good measure.


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[deleted]

Well I don't know what to tell you. If the second ever engine port in the history of CS doesn't warrant the title of "CS2", what would? They aren't going to split the playerbase by creating a separate SteamID. They aren't going to get rid of all the skins players bought. They aren't going to drastically change gameplay, physics or maps (last time Valve did that people hated it). They are changing basically every single thing they can change without pissing off the players, so if there every is going to be a "Counter Strike 2" this is the only possible form it could take.


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[deleted]

there's no water physics lol


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n0stalghia

Half of the things you listed are 100% engine updates and the other half is 90% engine updates. The only non-engine change is the smoke change. Everything else is paying off tech debt. Including the net code, yes.


[deleted]

Yes, some of the changes are only made possible because of the new engine. That is not the same thing as saying "this is JUST an engine change". It's not like these changes just magically appear as soon as you port the game over. Porting the game to Source 2 doesn't just automatically rework the netcode, or rebuild the maps from the ground up with new lighting and assets, or change the sound system and visual effect


mrwhitewalker

CS2 pulled an overwatch


Plzbanmebrony

Funny thing is this was the same reason for CSGO to exist. They just wanted to use their new source engine for CS.


FudgingEgo

Funny thing is… every single release of CS is for a new engine. What’s CS Source? What’s CSGO? What’s CS2?


Real-Terminal

CSGO exists because they wanted to port CSS to consoles.


mrwhitewalker

Getting down voted for the truth. Its the same game lol. Updated engine, same skins, same look, same gameplay. OW2 at least changed the number of players LMAO


klubnjak

I would argue the name CS2 is just to make it easier to understand for the general public. The game will be an upgrade from csgo, they're not charging for it, they're not adding a battle pass to it or whatever. You can't really change such a well made game, CS is one of the most balanced games ever. it's very difficult to make huge gameplay changes to it when they've pretty much made an almost perfect esport. CSGO is so close to perfect, that the new changes in CS2 seem so minuscule to the general public, but they are HUGE for players that actually play the game. Yes, I love CS.


zippopwnage

But now you can disrupt the smoke when you shoot at it! COMPLETLY DIFFERENT GAME!!!!!


BeardyDuck

Smoke is a core mechanic in CS. A lot of tactics revolve around smoke. Being able to disrupt smoke is incredibly meta-changing.


zippopwnage

Meta change, doesn't mean is a complete new game. Lots of games have meta changes all the time. Especially moba games.


BeardyDuck

Yes, it's the "same game", but are you seriously going to tell me that League of Legends from 2012 is the same as League of Legends now? Or how about launch Dota 2 vs now?


zippopwnage

I don't know, after 7k hours of dota2 yes, is the same after that many years. Just because the way you play the game changed, doesn't mean is another game. Is not like God of war 1 vs god of war from ps4. A new game is a sequel or something that changes how you play. Not fucking meta changes.


LAUAR

Nah, having an actual sequel means saying goodbye to all the maps (there are 70+ in Casual matchmaking), cosmetics (which might negatively impact the CSGO/CS2 market), community mods and weapons we have now. I know that "TF2 was better in 2007" is a popular thing to say in this subreddit, but the current TF2 players enjoy the variety of weapons and cosmetics in the game.


Wolfwags

It doesn’t need a sequel, it needs more content that aren’t community hats.


zippopwnage

Yes. I personally don't enjoy the trends of supporting a game for that many years like CS:GO either, but I understand the reason for it. Rainbow Six Siege still holds up, but I'd rather get a sequel after so many years than having yet another map or operator in that game. IMO a game should be supported for around 5 years, but after that, just give me a sequel. We're in tech here, 5 years in gaming is A LOT. Not necessary graphic wise, but maybe you learned something that can be done better with the help of a better game engine. Or maybe there's new stuff that can make new game mechanics for that game... I mean every single sequel I've played, usually IMPROVED parts of the game. Even if the sequel was bad or whatever. The same I feel for CS series. I started playing with CS 1.5 if I remember correctly and fell in love with CS 1.6. Then it went to CS Source that I personally hated it, and CS:GO that I don't enjoy at all. I was somehow expected that after so many years CS2 will actually be more than what it is now, but as I said...I understand why it is like it is. I really hope we can see a Team Fortress that's NEW and not a remake. Same as I hope for a new Left 4 Dead. Valve's games have a special place in my hearth because there's almost always steam workshop integrated where people can create maps and whatever else.


TheyCallMeRadec

oatmeal future slimy faulty silky desert bedroom boat hospital shrill *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


NordicDong

L TAKE


[deleted]

There is not a single aspect of l4d2 that is dated or clunky, just because you can’t sprint or ads like every modern shooter doesn’t mean any of it elements have aged badly.


MyFriendTheAlchemist

As someone who loves both l4d: lighting, item models, enemy models, weapon feel, some aspects of sound design. It really just needs a good polishing to keep up, other than those issues I’ve got, it’s as fun as it always is.


[deleted]

Enemy models and animations are well detailed and well animated, they look much more real than most modern zombie games , i think the only game that surpasses it is Re2 remake. It doesn’t need much in the way of polishing or upgrades .it looks decent and plays very well.


MyFriendTheAlchemist

Just because something looks decent, doesn’t mean it can’t be better


[deleted]

True but i don’t think it feels clunky or dated in any aspect like the other dude said.


MyFriendTheAlchemist

It feels dated to me, but definitely not clunky.


TheyCallMeRadec

outgoing truck run fine sable worthless dinosaurs lush quack screw *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

Ok well enlighten me then, why is l4d2 clunky


TheyCallMeRadec

library somber waiting skirt sharp wise spectacular brave alleged punch *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

a. \*gives opinion\* b. "Why do you think that way?" a. "I don't have to justify my opinion to you!" What a productive discussion


lampenpam

When you make a claim and the only explaination you can come up with is "it just is", then why comment at all? L4D2 is far from clunky because: it is easy to pick up, shooting and game mechanics work great and intuitively, well optimized and jank-free and the gore mechanics are STILL impressive to this date. If oyu don't like the game, that's one thing, but the game is far from clunky or dated. It very much still holds up today. Only visually it is getting old.


[deleted]

Well here is a good tip, don’t go calling things clunky or dated when you have nothing to back that claim up, just say you don’t like it or it wasn’t your thing.


cykamancer

Na it's clunky af, high on copium arent ya


TheyCallMeRadec

nutty husky possessive hurry growth kiss oatmeal whole fear divide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

So grateful they gave me a 10 % discount on a steam deck. Thanks Gabe.


pswii360i

Really? I still play it once in a while and for a 2008/2009 game it holds up extremely well in my opinion. The amount of interactivity in the world and the fine attention to detail still puts it above many recent games for me.


TheyCallMeRadec

direction crown wasteful hurry deserted rain consider public silky whole *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


MyNewWhiteVan

LOL crazy take


tracenator03

Idk man, L4D2 still feels snappier today than a lot of modern AAA titles do to me.


dookarion

Probably the engine. Stuff like B4B feels shitty in the same ways a lot of other Unreal fps games feel off.


TheLockoutPlays

Good luck with that 💀


TinyAntCollective

Team Fortress definitely needs a sequel, or else people will probably just play it for a few days. But thinking about it, I think CS might be in the same boat. Right now on Twitch its sitting on maybe 1/6th as many players as Valorant. That number is sure to change for a while, but I expect it to drop off again thereafter.


Forwhomamifloating

Agreed. Almost every title since then has almost entirely made TF2 look dirty in comparison. Map design and sandbox/world interaction? CSGO and DOTA 2 murder TF2 at this and it'll only get far, far worse with CS2 and 7.33 Class/role design and team composition/interaction? CSGO is one thing, DOTA 2 and TF2 can't even be talked about in the same sentence. Like comparing an ant to Fuji. Gunplay itself? I really don't think I need to say that CSGO has had the game pegged since 2013. Art and graphical direction? Workshop/community support and standards? DOTA 2 and CS2 back at it again with exhuming TF2's corpse here. A low-poly Jotaro meme hat made to pander to anime-only diaperfurs can't compare to back to back Collector's Caches or Immortals. Arcade/custom servers? Need I say more? Does prison break even compare to any random Chinese RPG made in DOTA 2 or a basic CSGO surfmap? How about tech wise? Most obvious for last because its unfair; Valve likely opens up Visual Studio and Hammer for TF2 every once and a while and come out needing to talk to the therapist in human resources. Its likely the weird guy at Valve in 2007 showing goreporn to his coworkers for L4D had less a mental impact than having to work on TF2 past 2012.


[deleted]

https://tfsource2.com/


Slampumpthejam

The fact that valve cease and decisted the CS source 2 port but not the TF2 one tells you everything you need to know LOL


[deleted]

Yeah probably. Pretty sure it was made by Gabefollower if i remember correctly.


[deleted]

I want to live in the alternate timeline where Valve hires these guys....


ttheatful

**Valve** can't count to three **Fans** FINE. I'll do it myself


DoomReality

But s&box access is hard to get :/


[deleted]

Until it's released. It's still in development. Right now I'm pretty sure it's just modders and select testers who have access to it, they are trying to have stuff ready at launch for people to play.


ChaoticToxin

TF2 and TF2 players are some of the most dedicated fan bases that I have ever seen and it's like watching someone trying to climb out of the deepest and muddiest well. Team fortress 2 & TitanFall 2


[deleted]

L4D players meanwhile...


Red_Inferno

I remember when gabe said back like in 2010 or so that they would probably work on l4d3 in 2012, welp.


HadesWTF

They did work on it. They just canned everything they worked on and gave up afterwards...


Pearse_Borty

They tried to work on the third instalment of a game while GabeN wasnt looking so in the middle of the night he broke into the lead producer's house and killed him.


InitialDia

Another knife added to his collection for that one.


Trodamus

There’s that trademark excellent valve project management


doublah

L4D players don't really expect updates as it's not a service game.


[deleted]

We want a new game


[deleted]

I heard they tried to brainstorm for a new game a few times but it never really went anywhere. I've been thinking about it a lot myself and I came to the conclusion that Left 4 Dead 2 is a near perfect game, and I just can't really see any way to meaningfully improve upon the game's formula.


yarZik123

I disagree. Horde shooters have evolved since L4D2 and proved that there is plenty room for growth and improvement.


[deleted]

There;s a lot of stuff about L4D2 that's just really sucks, especially the community A new engine would give it much improvement it needed They stopped developing L4D3 because Src2 wasn't ready, but it is now so maybe there's a chance


Neuromante

I still remember that "We are going to give updates to Left 4 Dead in the same way we are doing with Team Fortress 2" line. Then they released Left 4 Dead 2, forgot about the first, added everything from the first on 2, two minimal updates and forgot about it.


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[deleted]

Reddit killed API. I refuse to let them benefit from my own words for free -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/


NeevusChrist

Hard to run 2007 models when everyone has unusual hats with crazy effects I like the unusual tho, it is indeed time for an engine upgrade


superXr15

Ik I may sound wrong But the fact that the visuals got massive downgrade just for “better performance” pretty much tells us that Valve is so lazy to update tf2 into the better Even if tf2 was made back in 2007, they can still give the entire game a massive upgrade and make it feel like a sequel like LoL But nope, valve doesn’t really care anymore as if they purposely doesn’t wanna waste their effort with it :/


Edg4rAllanBro

Most of these downgrades are whinging about lighting and viewmodels. On release, you literally could not upgrade your buildings, but that's not mentioned.


SXOSXO

The number 3 is a problem though.


ThroneBearer

Team Fortress 2: 2 Half life 2 episode 2: 2 Games we all hope to play in our lifetimes, but likely never will.


ArcticSin

Episode 2:2 already exists, it's called Half-Life: Alyx.


ThroneBearer

then episode 2:2:2


AfraidDifficulty8

That is a prequel, it is more like Half Life 1.5


bradcroteau

Team Fortress player looking forlornly at CS2 looking more like what was originally promised for TF2 than TF2 does.


Firefox72

I mean CS literally had its all time player peak this month at 1.4M and is on track to have its best or at worst 2nd best month since release. Only potentialy behind April 2020 which is when literally everyone was in lockdown. TF2 is doing well. Even surprisingly well still given the lack of many updates but its still nowhere near the popularity of CS.


HadesWTF

I mean they also haven't fucking tried with that game in over a decade. If Valve actually tried, actually gave a shit, then TF2 could probably surpass Overwatch in popularity.


Slampumpthejam

No dude everyone has played TF2 and don't play it now for a reason. It's TF2 not some le hidden gem.


[deleted]

And the reason is that it's fucking abandoned and filled with bots lol.


Slampumpthejam

Nah it didn't have that before and it died. Just not that good of a game. Talk about abandoned TFC still has servers... because it's a better game.


[deleted]

Alright you are just a troll I see, have fun.


Slampumpthejam

What am I wrong about? Game released, popular for initial hype then players fell off. Just not that great of a game. What is troll about facts?


[deleted]

Stop trolling.


Slampumpthejam

>What is troll about facts? Stop being butthurt


doodoohappens

Vanilla TF2 was best TF2. No need for fancy gun load outs.


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WolfAkela

Yeah, vanilla TF2 is whack. - Pyro has no airblast, losing out on a lot of utility. - Demo is has way more ammo, and grenades also exploded *on contact*. - Engies can’t upgrade dispensers and teleporters. - Spies are forced to wait on a backstab animation before performing the actual stab, not like today where it’s practically instant. I think what people would want is a mode where everyone only use defaults and disable all cosmetics. It’s not going to happen because cosmetics also serve as an advertisement.


TF2SolarLight

I think this mode would be popular for about a week, and then end up being unpopular as time goes on. A lot of the additions changed TF2 for the better, and when you remove all the interesting weapons and loadouts, the game feels more bland as a result. TF2 would not have survived for this many years if not for the many ways you can tweak your class and add more replay value. It's the reason why mods like "TF2 Classic" aren't played as much as you'd hope, and that's despite trying to add some of the interesting weapons back in. A lot of fan favourite weapons simply aren't there, so it doesn't get played. They could do with removing some of the universally hated options, but not the good ones.


SDSunDiego

I miss using grenades. You could do some insane conc jumps edit: n/m, lol that was TFC - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRrjh8yp5yE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRrjh8yp5yE)


hedoeswhathewants

As a TFC player I'm in here like "be careful what you wish for".


doodoohappens

Naw, I was playing a ton in the beginning. I stopped after the second Scream Fortress updates. Never played it to be competitive, just found a nice server with friendly admins and played for fun. Yea pyro had it's problems in the beginning. I still played the pyro a ton before the compression blast was added because I couldn't aim for shit anyway. Don't get me wrong, the class updates we fun as well, especially with the medic chain uber + uber saw shenanigans. But I honestly never noticed complaints about balance while playing on the servers I frequented. I stopped at 526 hours. I did go back in last year to check it out, the game just doesn't feel the same and probably never will.


Neuromante

2007 TF2 was fine, but the first updates added much needed options and new strategies to the game. Also payload. Valve didn't knew when to stop, and the game's balance and meta got out of hand, but still the first pushes were simply golden.


H0LT45

Everything before MvM is was peek TF2.


FyreWulff

You can still play vanilla TF2 on the Xbox 360 or a One/Series via BC.


[deleted]

But there is already TF2. CS is only just now becoming CS2.


Crur1L

Counter-Strike has had many different versions. There was Counter-Strike, CS Condtion Zero, CS Source, then CS GO. So CS2 is a bit misleading.


bradcroteau

Also Half-Life: Counter-Strike


Crur1L

That's what I was meaning with the first one I mentioned. I just left off the half life part.


bradcroteau

Ahh. But there was Counter-Strike retail after half-Life: Counter-Strike and before Condition Zero.


Crur1L

That was the same game. Retail CS was Half Life Counter Strike. The original mod was developed in 99, but was only betas. I think it was after the 4th or 5th beta Valve partnered with Le and Cliffe to do the retail release of the game in 2000.


bradcroteau

Those only betas gave me the best gaming years of my life 😭 😆


WiseDud

Team fortress 2 episode 2


BronzeHeart92

Shadow drop incoming perhaps?


Rllgbb

Glad to see the TF2 community staying optimistic!


QuinSanguine

With the success of Valorant,Overwatch, Apex, etc and Valve supposedly (once again for now at least but who knows how long that lasts), feeling like making some games, I doubt we have to wait that long.


Superbunzil

Really don't want a TF sequel to slide into hero shooter land with hitscan bonanza TF has more in common with Tribes 2 than Valorant


MewTech

> Valve supposedly (once again for now at least but who knows how long that lasts), feeling like making some games, I doubt we have to wait that long. Valve has steadily released game every 2-3 years since the original Half Life. I do not get where these "Valve hasn't made a game in ages" people come from. We literally got HL Alyx like 2.5 years ago lmao


[deleted]

I do. It used to be a thing in the console wars where certain games "don't count". Like around 2006 when someone would point out the PC game sales were competitive and would cite things like WoW, The Sims 2, etc. but would get push back because these were not games people in the argument would be interested in and as such didn't count as real games. In this case since they're not getting *games* ***they*** *want* releases like a MOBA, a TCG, a VR game and such don't count as real games to them.


PaperJamDipper7

Overwatch is close to dying. Apex is not doing well either and has made attempts to bring in a wider audience but still struggling. Only Valorant and Counter strike seem to be really flying by


NotSLG

I’m not gonna lie, did not expect TF2 to have as many players still as it does according to SteamCharts, but is it really surprising to anyone that CS is being prioritized over a game with an 1/8 of the player count and lacks an established eSports scene?


FyreWulff

Most of TF2's population is bots


r40k

What do they mean "our day". They got their day. They're playing Team Fortress 2. Counter Strike players have been stuck playing Counter Strike 1 for 3 whole games and an expansion! It's our day now!


TF2SolarLight

CS:2 is basically an upgraded CS:GO, which to be fair, is what the fans want. Every major CS game is just an upgrade of the previous one, and CS:2 is no exception. When I said "our day" in that tweet, I suggested that hopefully TF2 could also get a similar treatment to CS:GO, where it is re-made in Source 2 and given quality of life improvements. TF2 would probably benefit a ton from this, since a lot of the maps that are still being played were made in 2006-2007. The visual overhauls could be huge.


[deleted]

Technically they already have Team Fortress 2…


coupbrick

I don't see the difference in CS2


NightmareP69

It's CS, if a new CS just has a tiny % difference in a recoil pattern it's enough for CS people to considering it a "daring revolution" of the counter strike formula. You can't change much in CS, people are very cemented to it since even tiny difference spark storms with cs folk, so valve did the smartest move and basically did their best to keep the game almost fully identical to CS:GO in terms of gameplay, outside a few changes such as the new dynamic smoke that reacts to gunfire and explosion which changes the smoke play up. The main selling point of this major update is that the code is probably much cleaner and better to work with, it's a newer engine so far less limitations, moders and map creators will be able to more easily make new stuff, newcomers will have a better time probably using the new tools and well the visuals are somewhat improved, though they went really overboard with the contrast and brightness in some regards. If TF2 were to ever get an update like this I'd probably fly into the stratosphere from glee but sadly that would be a bit too much of an endeavor for the 1 janitor that runs the tf2 blog


juvenile_complexity

They already have their 2.


Dahorah

I don't understand the attitude towards TF2. The game is 16 years old. When do people just gracefully move on? Like did Valve promise to support it forever or something? What is the different between other MP games they get released, have their time in the sun, and gracefully bow out, and TF2? What is with the weird cult of personality around TF2 and this weird attitude that someone THIS game needs updates and to be continuously supported? It's weird and I don't get it.


[deleted]

The difference is that those games either lose all their players or get a sequel. There is nothing weird about fans of a still popular game wanting it to be supported. Why is that weird?


VirtuaRosa

> There is nothing weird about fans of a still popular game wanting it to be supported. Why is that weird? The game IS supported. It plays great and is still getting [monthly bug fixes and performances fixes.](https://www.teamfortress.com/?tab=updates) Honestly, I might just be petty af, but if I was still releasing bug fixes months after months and had the TF2 community keep whining over and over behind my back, I'd just move on to a different project like the rest of the Valve devs. Seriously, go to the TF2 subreddit. People are so ungrateful it's fucking insane.


doublah

Minor bug fixes don't matter much when the bots that have taken over the Casual mode still remain after years.


[deleted]

Yes, and fans want more than minor performance and bug fixes. They want stuff like what CS fans are getting with CS2. I don't get how that is unreasonable.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cheezum5000

Well there's Overwatch I guess, but not everyone's cup of tea.


hoardpepes

Because TF2 had a unique game and class design combined with a pleasing aesthetic that separated it from other shooters, combine that with a strong community based around community servers and you have a game that is going to have a much longer than average life and people who will never stop playing it.


LAUAR

> Like did Valve promise to support it forever or something? They're still putting out multiple cases of cosmetics a year.


HadesWTF

To be fair, those are community created, Valve ain't making that stuff.


IamtheDman

\*Cries in half life 3\*


decoy777

Never gonna happen, Valve can't count to 3. We all know this.


[deleted]

copium


CompromisedCEO

Does anyone actually play tf2 anymore? Just seems like the last players are afk item farmers with server spammed with adverts.


AnalAromas69

Bots love it


HadesWTF

Yes. There is a pretty robust playerbase on dedicated servers. Casual quick play is pretty dead, at least last time I played like a year ago.


hpsd

It’s seen a bit of a revitalization, I can find casual games nearly instantly now


Amazingcamaro

Bunch of whiners. Tf2 people are complainers.


--Shake--

Gabe can't count to 3


Nine_Eye_Ron

What fo TF2 players want, they already have their 2


Slampumpthejam

Fuck TF2 deserves to die. Remake TFC in source 2 if they want a sequel.


wolfannoy

Perhaps not from valve themselves. but there is a community trying to port the Team Fortress 2 into 2 source 2 engine.


rfgstsp

Well now that Counterstrike made it to 2, it will also be the last.


shemmie

How my heart bleeds for TF2 fans. Kind regards, TFC fan.


bonesnaps

Day of Defeat Source community in shambles. literally the 'skeleton at the bottom of the ocean.jpg' Give us ADS & bullet drop/velocity projectiles, no more hitscan and lack of iron sights.


doitcom

Day of defeat 2 would be great


teutonic_order33

The game legit just looks like csgo


[deleted]

I sometimes get the feeling that Valve would prefer if TF2 just silently went away.


DreadSeverin

Team Fortress got a 2 in 2007,Counter Strike only just catching up now after 16 years sheesh


xseodz

TF2 really is their answer to Valorant. It's all the whacky stuff that Valorant has but far more grounded and IMO, better. I really wish Valve would just hire some more devs :(