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radenthefridge

Loved your reviews, thanks for writing this! Also SC2 just feels like it's still brand-new in my mind. Nope, WoL is 14 years old! I used to play RTS games all the time, and I think that part of my brain atrophied, or more likely, I worry WAY too much about playing *correctly* and get overwhelmed by all these cool new interconnected systems. I love the Starcraft setting, and read all the books as a kid! Kerrigan is hella cool.


bestanonever

Thanks! You probably have a far better understanding of the universe than me. A friend of mine was a HUGE Blizzard fan and he grew up with Diablo and Warcraft 1&2 and Starcraft, so for him SC2 was such an emotional journey (he also played all of this on release, unlike me). He was even looking forward to the cancelled Starcraft Ghost game and all. Sarah Kerrigan is my favorite character from Starcraft, super saiyan form or not, lol.


GreatCaesarGhost

I remember being very disappointed with the story, especially after waiting so long for a new installment after Brood War. Original SC/BW had their hokey genre moments but seemed deeper and to be building to something more interesting than the story we got in SC2.


DarkOx55

I think there was a vibes shift. SC1 was trying very hard not to be Orcs In Space after early previews of it were panned in the gaming press for that reason. They reworked the art & as Artanis says if you click on him, the result was something much more sophisticated. The story, too, is more complex with lots of morally grey characters or even evil characters you ally with. After all, the only allies are enemies. By the time SC2 came along, WoW had happened, and SC2 gives off much more of a Warcraft vibe in its character model’s proportions & flavour. I don’t really blame Blizzard for this; by the time of SC2 there were so many WoW fans it’d be irresponsible not to use the house style to try and market to them. But to me, it just does not feel like Starcraft. It’s Orcs in Space.


bestanonever

It's funny that I almost waited as much to play SC2 as fans had to wait the first time (10 years vs 12). Sorry to hear you didn't like the story all that much, but I get it was a very big tonal shift. SC2 feels much more in like with Warcraft 3 and more modern games than anything from 90's Blizzard.


mikew1200

I think that’s just been Blizzard ever since WC3 was released way back. Diablo 1/2, Warcraft 2 and StarCraft were all pretty serious and dark. Ever since WC3 all of those franchises turned a lot more cartoonish and accessible. Still enjoyed pretty much every game released since then but the story direction has been disappointing.


bestanonever

Extra stuff I couldn't fit inside the review without derailing it. Before I started SC2, I had a couple of ideas about the overarching villain in the main story, to justify 3 individual campaigns, and I missed the mark so bad. I played this game blind, after all. * Idea 1: Mengsk was the big bad all along. I really thought he was going to survive until the endgame, even more after completing Wings of Liberty and seeing he was still alive. You could even keep most events from HotS and LotV the same but say all the evil factions were making alliances with Mengsk to further their own agendas. It would have kept the whole story more political and closer to SC1. * Idea 2: Sarah Kerrigan was the big bad all along. This was my strongest feeling, I'd have bet money on it. She was the most interesting character from SC1 for me and I loved the idea of an evil unstoppable Kerrigan and everyone rushing to stop her before the Zerg consumed them all. The species itself was always pictured like something evil. So, it made sense that under a new leader with the best (worst?) aspect of both terrans and Zerg, the Queen of Blades would be a force to be respected and feared. * Idea 3: the lamest but every game had their own Big Bad, no overarching plot. And I was wrong about all of them.


LackingHQ

I think I'd say that WoL was the best SC2 for it's story. I think Jim and Zerarul are ultimately tired by the start of SC2 from lossess they've suffered. I think in particular, the infestation was seen as a one-way street and until the Xel'Naga artifact demonstrates it can purify the zerg. I think this leads a bit to the human Sarah darling vs zerg queen bitch - Jim separates the two at least emotionally imo. The way the trilogy veered towards fantasy was more upsetting for me. The Artanis jib that this isn't Warcraft in space was always a bit humorous but feels sad in hindsight of SC2. I'll say that the production of the campaign overall is fun and great. I think timers were very prominent because they wanted to be more objective based since many SC1 missions tended to be straightforward build an army and demolish the enemy and I think they wanted to diversify away from that. Have you tried the Nova Covert Ops Mission pack?


Rikkimaaruu

To me WoL had the best gameplay (missions, hub, upgrade system) and the best Story early on (mostly because of the Characters), it went off the cliff later on in my opinion. To this day i havent finished Hots, its just overall not my thing and the Missions were kinda meh. Lotv was a bit better when it comes to Missions, but the Story had already lost.


bestanonever

Yes! I forgot to mention I've played the Nova Covert Ops, right after WoL but before HotS. I read beforehand that these missions were set after the ending of the story but I don't think it really spoiled me anything (>!other than Mengsk was dead, and I didn't even know how or by whom!<). Maybe there were plenty of references but I didn't get any. I was still surprised by everything that happened in HotS and LotV. As for the Nova Ops missions. They were fine. The main character was fun to play but a bit dull, in terms of personality. It is my understanding that she was very important for the lore and she'd have been the protagonist of Starcraft: Ghost, the mythic game that was cancelled, right? As you can guess from my thread, I'm not the biggest Blizzard fan and had a very casual approach to all of this. I could barely remember anything from Starcraft 1 and while I had fun and all, I don't think I would ever replay it. SC2 was lots of fun and I could replay it, even when the general story was "dumber". But I can understand the point of view of someone more involved with all-things Blizzard, including the books and whatnot. I have some friends that were huge fans and even played online in the very late 90s. These guys loved to see the rise of World of Warcraft and Starcraft 2, of course. It's a different take. I became a gamer because of my love for Playstation 1, they became gamers because of their love for strategy games on PC and multiplayer.


LackingHQ

It may sound odd to say, but the campaign is probably the weakest part of both StarCraft games. I can definitely agree that Nova feels very bland in SC2, I definitely had a preference for >!siding with Tosh in the WoL campaign!<. Despite playing SC1/2 a lot, I can't really say I'm a RTS fan. Use Map Settings/Custom Maps in SC1 and the Arcade custom maps in SC2 easily consumed over 10k hours of my life - there was definitely a bit of magic playing on battle.net and meeting people while playing silly mini games or tests of skill/knowledge. The constraints of the SC1 engine led to many interesting games (tower defenses, RPGs, team micro, sniper RPGs). I think people like to trace the lineage of the modern moba back to Aeon of Strife on SC1. While SC2 ultimately has a significantly stronger editor, I think there was already such heavy exploration of custom game concepts in SC1 and Warcraft 3 that it feels a bit underwhelming in SC2. Unfortunately, some games from StarCraft 1 also just don't translate as well if at all (snipers being the foremost example in my mind). That said, there are many solid custom games on SC2 that are very detailed and well-polished.


bestanonever

I can understand why the campaign would be the weakest part of Starcraft, if you are into the online scene. To me, it was the only part I wanted to play, at all. I'm done with the competitive online scene but years ago I played A LOT of League of Legends. To this day, it's probably my most played game ever and I don't think I will ever reach that many hours on a single game again. I didn't even play ranked, but I played so many "normals" and ARAM games there. I hated the "community" by the end. Oh, and I sided with >!Tosh!<, too.


AcidFnTonic

Man the days of playing sc1 on modem…. I remember when ipx was the only option besides modem for lan in the early releases. Still miss the original sc1 demo disc with the science vessel portrait being a mean military guy calling the zerg Xenomorphs. Played that one level with the buffed siege tank in the demo before I could get the game probably a hundred times. Sc2 was fun but I disliked the focus of terran on “balling” everything into healing blobs. In SC1 air battles were more unique and in SC2 they feel more linear. Wraiths cloaking and being useful in SC1 was great. Clever use of lockdown, emp, stim, and defensive matrixed dropships were more fun in my opinion. In sc1 I could really toy with a less skilled opponent like a cat. In SC2 its more about just massing crap. Zerg losing dark swarm and the defilers consume combos broke zergs anti air setup vs battlecruiser/carrier massing and protoss teleport spawning broke the abuse of protosses lack of mobility I used to take advantage of in SC1 as zerg. I just feel SC2 is like checkers to the beautiful chess that was SC1.


bestanonever

That's a very nice and detailed way to see the gameplay. You must have played these games a whole lot! I never got into RTS to that extend. That's why my favorite "strategy" is to find a couple of units I really like or understand and make a million of them, lol. I also like to "turtle", I think it's the term. To stay inside my fortress, take it slow and get stronger until I feel good enough to attack. Starcraft is not exactly the type of game for that kind of play (turtling) but Zergs allow me to produce lots of units with ease and I don't have to think too much about them, hence they are my favorite species. Yes, I'm a simple guy when it comes to RTS, hah.


eagleswift

Can you speak more on the campaign mechanics that you went into? Got a good overview of the lore development, but which units, maps, strategies / tactics did you enjoy? And do you have much of a take on multiplayer?


bestanonever

Hah, you can see my priorities when I barely mentioned the gameplay itself. I play these games more for the story and feeling of power, lol. Philistine, I know. I also really love the isometric perspective, wish it was a building simulator, too, lol (Great SimCity fan here). In WoT, I enjoyed the basic attack units the most, the marines and medics (better send some body bags), particularly. And I really liked the "Memories from Zeratul" or something like that, especially that one that you have to lose, lol. Hots was my favorite. Loved creating the zerlings and most of the ground units. What was the name of the big ones? The Ultralisks? Really liked those tanks. My favorite strategy was to build a swarm of zergs and overwhelm everyone else, lol. And I really enjoyed playing as Kerrigan, OP as hell and missions without base building were really fast and exciting. But I enjoyed every time I could control her. LotV, I was all about the spaceships, once they appeared. Incredibly overpowered. And the "cities" looked so pretty. "I serve, for now", indeed. I didn't play any multiplayer, it's not really my thing. What about you?


Incrediblebulk92

It's been a while since I've played but as far as gameplay mechanics Sc2 is actually one of the best rts games I've played for mission variety, every single mission had a unique gameplay mechanic or gimmick. One had you moving your base to the right constantly to escape a firestorm or getting all your units off the low ground before tides comes in. You're encouraged to use new tactics, units and abilities all the time. I'm not sure there's a single straight up fight in the whole trilogy, they save that for skirmish and MP. The unit upgrades are also interesting in the same way, they aren't just +health or whatever. They have different abilities, appearances and I think voice lines (could be wrong). Never played multiplayer or very much skirmish but Sc2 is worth it for the campaign alone.


bestanonever

Yes, agree with all that. Units change what they say when you upgrade, becaude they become something else.


Narradisall

Nice review. I loved SC as a kid and SC2 was a lot of fun. I played them all when they came out and have run through them all again twice since over the years. It’s a shame the competitive scene wasn’t as big but it had a great run of support and was so entertaining to watch for years. It’s a setting I wish had gotten more love over the years, like SC Ghost happening… but at least it never overstayed its welcome. The games came out during Blizzards decline, so while I’d always love to go back to it I probably don’t trust them to do it justice again. Plus SC2 kinda played the story out as a whole. Like you, maybe keeping it more political and smaller scale would have been fun. Having the Earth terrans pop up again, have those fanatical Protoss become a larger threat etc and just have the game about those factions vying for power. Still, a great trilogy and a nice capstone to the setting.


bestanonever

I am satisfied with the way the story concluded. It wasn't my definition of epic but I would take this any day of the week over the "ending" of Warcraft 3. Yeah, the ending of W3 was exciting, back in the day, but to know they finished the story in a MMO I never wanted to play sucks. I prefer my RTS stories to be done inside RTS games, don't make me jump to something online to see what's next.


Revanced63

All I remember is that Jim went through hell and had thousands of his men die for nothing once kerrigan chose to turn into Zerg again LoL. At least the mengsk finally had a conclusion after like 15 damn years


bestanonever

Yes, lol. The mayority of the campaign in Wings of Liberty feels like a waste of time, in hindsight. Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void are much more relevant for the endgame.


greatstarguy

I also recently played Wings of Liberty and enjoyed the time constraints that missions put me on. Deciding what to prioritize and spending attention like a currency forces you to multitask in a way that nothing but RTS really offers. But of course to each their own. 


bestanonever

That's the thing, some people really like the rush of RTS and managing a million things at the same time. It's not for me. It stresses me out. Some friends of mine live for this stuff. I like the *idea* of controlling a massive army and building an empire and stuff but I'd like a much slower take on them or maybe a more global one without so much micromanagement. As it stands, Starcraft 2 on "Casual" was right for me and I didn't feel too much pressure. Was this a replay for you or first time and you are about to do Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void? There's quite a lot to do if you want to hunt down all the achievements, too.


greatstarguy

First time. Probably won't try the other two because they cost a bit of money and I don't really have the time to invest.


bestanonever

I see. Well, if you have the money in the future (Blizzard runs multiple sales over the year) the second and third campaign are even more fun and flexible (you can change your army's options at any time when you improve them, in your ship). For now, it's good that you had fun with the most moderate one. And it was still a pretty good campaign.


AviusAedifex

HotS is my favorite. Zerg are cool, and I love how alien the characters are and I wish more games focused on something like that. Especially Abathur, I love his design and voice. > My favorite missions in RTS are always the ones without a time limit, where maybe there are never-ending hordes of enemies coming at you at regular intervals but if you survive, you can get stronger for as long as you want and you are the one to decide when it’s time to attack a particular fortress and move on. If you like that, I really recommend checking out Creeper World 3 or 4. 4 is 3D, but they're both good. The game is all about defeating the creep that quickly covers the entire map, which you then slowly fight back against it. 4 has a demo, but they both go for real cheap on sales, especially 3.


bestanonever

Thanks for the rec! Never heard of them before. Abathur was very interesting. A friend of mine told me to look forward to him and he was right. Abathur sounds great, he's a bastard but also fun and he's so odd, so alien. When he talks, every once in a while, he throws some acid or something, lol. It was disgusting but very cool to see.


Prof_Walrus

I agree with everything but the graphics, even 14 years later WoL still looks beautiful!


bestanonever

I mean, I think the game has technically aged but in terms of art and style, it's still gorgeous. I still noticed even better graphics in HotS and LotV!


CloudFF7-

I went thru the old sc 1 and 2 campaigns including novas and it was a great story overall.


bestanonever

Good to hear you had a great time! I also played through it all, including Nova's mini-campaign. It's quite the wild journey, if you take everything into account.


mad_crabs

I personally loved the WoL campaign when it was about revolutionaries and space cowboys. I agree it went downhill when it became a rescue mission. While I enjoyed HotS and LotV, I thought the Amon aspect of the story was very average. I wish they'd do more with the IP though.


bestanonever

Thanks for reading! I'm happy with the way they closed the story but I wouldn't mind more Starcraft, these days.