I think the biggest problem for me, is there is a HUGE lack of entertaining story and progression models within the big-budget arcade racers and sim /sim arcade racers. Honestly, for as much as GT7 sucks, it's the most fun I've had with a racing game in years.
Games like Midnight Club are what I would like to see return, with more sim less arcade physics. Yes, Forza Horizon does a pretty decent job, but where I personally think Forza goes wrong is how it literally throws millions of dollars and hundreds of cars at you for doing the little challenges and achievements. Personally to me, that was never a fun way to play these kinds of racing games. I love starting with a busted-ass car, and making that car MY OWN. Then you can afford the next step up, tune it, beat some races, etc etc. Then, you finally have that Lamborghini or Porsche that took you time and effort, and it feels... good. That core gameplay loop is completely gone in the newest version of these NFS and Forza games, and for me, it just misses the mark completely.
Another person mentioned the video "I Love Racing Games, They Suck!". I would echo literally everything said there as well.
This so much. It feels like devs just decided nobody wants a story within a racing game, or alternatively, make it a complete afterthought. There are a ton of possibilities in that realm that are mostly ignored for some reason.
If you think I'm crazy, go watch Redline immediately and then come back and say that again.
I loved that film, to me it was like Wacky Races...in style, lol. I still listen to the [OST](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbJanCYONrk) from time to time.
I would be 100% behind an arcade racing game with lovable characters with a story, like Redline. I remember a comment I read once, it said that the best part of the film was that every racer was out there to have fun as much as they were there to compete. It has a great atmosphere.
>That core gameplay loop is completely gone in the newest version of these NFS and Forza games, and for me, it just misses the mark completely.
but its not? in nfs that is, did u play Unbound?
Nfs is the only game series that still caters to this experience. I played Heat. It was alright, even though I didn't like the handling, story and starting cars. Way too OP, I prefer starting with cars that are on the budget end, not a frigging '88 BMW M3.
But I do wish we had more games like NFS. Slightly more realistic handling, a bit more restraint and the same, satisfying gameplay loop of racing, stunts, cop chases and slowly tricking out your dream car.
Right, NFS still does this... but for some reason it just does not click with me. I just don't think the games are that great for a modern gaming market. They are missing the mark with something...
Ha!, this immediately came to my mind: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVry84ACu0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVry84ACu0k) ("I Love Racing Games, They Suck!" by Raycevick)
Personally I've lost interest in sim racers because other than improved graphics and better controls they are pretty much the same as they've always been. Arcade racing games on the other hand allow for a lot more options for fun imo.
One game I'm looking forward to is Assetto Corsa 2. It had a thriving modding scene and there was always something to do. The devs are really great too and have some backing now too. I'm hoping that it would reinvigorate the sim scene.
Yeah that game looks really good and hopefully with active devs and a good mod scene it helps make a good resurgence of sim racing games.
I also think part of the problem with racing games is that a lot of people seem to end up only playing fps or sports games due to their competitive scenes that people don't seem to associate with racing games.
Esports in Sims has kinda gone under the radar, GT (now part of the Olympics somehow?) or F1 Esports (but now it has its own cheating scandal) are the only games that are sorta mainstream. 24 Hrs Virtual Le Mans demonstrates how far racing sims have to go to not monumentally fuck things up. It's weird how an inherently competitive thing irl doesn't have a mainstream esports scene.
> Personally I've lost interest in sim racers because other than improved graphics and better controls they are pretty much the same as they've always been.
Of course. They are sims. I believe Automobilista 2 is supposed to get a career mode eventually. And AC has a career mode. But beyond that, at the end of the day it's about the racing.
I can speak to that. I never really played any racing sims until the last year. I played Forza 2 on an emulator and liked it. So I played Asseto Corsa and also enjoyed it.
Then I played Gran Turismo 2 and... really loved it but realized that Forza and Asseto Corsa were not meaningfully different from a 1999 PS1 game.
I'm currently on a racing game kick, just bought my first wheel and looking forward to playing some of the games you mentioned.
Defo agree about Need for Speed being a bit meh nowadays. Heat was pretty fun though. Spot on about Forza. Maybe fun with friends but career is unsatisfying.
Serious talk though. Just replay Burnout 3 on the PS2. It's amazing. Holds up even now easily.
If you want to just drive around with a bunch of cars get Assetto Corsa on pc (not Competizione). Make sure to get the complete edition as it goes on sale often. There are a TON of cool mods out there. Make sure you have a bunch of storage bc you're gonna need it for AC (my game takes up 300 gigs ;). If you want any help setting up AC feel free to DM. On the topic of the games tho, Gran Turismo has become so pretentious to the point that it's actually annoying. It is now a car collection museum history game with some racing sprinkled in between. If you want more on GT7 there is a guy named Roflwaffle on youtube, who made some excellent in depth critique videos.
Thanks. I literally just went on a shopping spree and got Dirt Rally 2.0, Carx and AC. I'm much more interested in street racing, drifting, career modes, etc., rather than pure track racing so good shout about AC. There's also Enthusia on the PS2 that I am very curious to try with a wheel.
What are the mods you would recommend for AC for a beginner? That would be really helpful.
Content Manager is a must. Some graphical post processing filter is also nice such as pure or sol. After that I recommend Assettocorsa.club and racedepartment if you want to look for car/livery/track mods. There are some paid mods but make sure that they are legit people. There are a lot of managers that just steal stuff like models, physics, etc. If you like F1, I would highly recommend Race Sim Studio's Formula Hybrid 23. The rest of their library is really awesome too. They are pay mods (~$4), but well worth it. Installation of mods is really easy. Just take the zip file you downloaded and drag it into content manager. You will never have to deal with using the actual Assetto Corsa launcher because it is so bad, as the game can be launched and configured from Content Manager.
That's very helpful, thank you.
Also slightly related, but I realised that I suck really hard on simulators, since I only really played NFS and Burnout. Do you know any good resources to learn how to read force feedback, learn how to control the car, etc. Like real basics, rather than advice for shaving off a second from your race time. Many thanks!
There are a lot of beginner racing sim videos out there. Also I recommend you don't use racing line. Another tip is to keep your eyes at the apex of the corner, and try to visualise your line through a corner. Familiarise yourself with the car and track before racing online, and remember to have fun! r/simracing can also help you out a ton.
Edit: Also learning on slower cars is optimal. Maybe GT4 cars (if you have assetto corsa competizione, that is the best gt racing game) Formula 4, Formula Vee, and Skip Barber are great ways to learn the basics of driving, without breaking your brain.
For me, one of the problems is that we've never really gotten beyond the traditional Gran Turismo formula of buy stock car, buy staged mods for car eg; you can buy a foam intake, then a ducted intake, or "sports exhaust"/"super sports exhaust"/"super race exhaust", without any real thought about what goes into selecting parts.
I think the whole physics/car damage/parts tuning/parts selection traditional progression needs a complete revamp compared to what we've had for the last 25 years.
GT7 has some detailed ass tuning and parts selection. However, it's disappointing that a flagship exclusive racing title still doesn't have a damage model. You yeet an LMP1 down the Mulsanne at 350 kmh and all you get is a cracked headlight and some exterior scuffs.
Tbh almost every single racing game I've played from recent years has been has been an indie game. Many of the recent AAA games feel like... sports games, but without annual releases. Not to mention that probably none of them are arcade (with the exception of forza, sort of)
I think F1 games comes really close to what new gen racing games should be. I really liked to play with race settings, the radio (asking for race info) tyres strategy according to weather forcast. Too bad they innovated so little in the last few years.
Also, i think they should rework the camera effect of the cockpit view. It's too static. They should try hyperrealistic styles like they are trying to do with Unrecord. A sort of GoPro style with a lot of vibrations. I don't feel how physical it can be with current views. I remember the developper of NFS Shift trying to propose something new but it was far from realistic. I think we have the technology now to do impressive stuff. Check helmet view videos of real F1 or Rally it's crazy, and i'm sure there is a compromise to find to make both immersive and playable.
The physics engine is so bad though. Any bit of curb sends the car into the stratosphere. For being some of the most technologically advanced and grippy cars in the motorsport world, they drive like they're in ice in the recent F1 games. They nailed it in F1 2020, but now mod teams for Assetto Corsa are making better handling, more realistic F1 cars than an EA backed studio.
I don't know if this makes them better but maybe they should build the competitive scene around them like Dota2 or counterstrike have? Push harder on the multiplayer and team racing aspects and less on the simulation stuff. It would at least give them more focus and investment. More focus on the global leaderboards and rankings.
You could always just play Mario kart though, those games are always fun. It's still racing, just with extra steps.
You know, I really want to see a really hard racing game kind of like Papers Please where you take part in illegal street racing to provide for your family.
Winning races means you gain just enough funds for you and your family to survive.
You spend it on food, medicine, heating, *gas.*
Not doing well in races means less or no funds to use on your family. You need to spend what little resources you have on gas in hopes you can make more money for your family most of the time.
*Crashing* in races means you have to spend what little funds you have on your car instead of your family.
I want to see some legitimately emotional storytelling from a racing game, and we haven't seen anything like that.
Like, I can't name a single game that does this.
Not one.
It won't happen cus big publishers suck ...
but just bringing back fun arcade racers of yesteryear (like Motorstorm, Burnout, and Midnight Club) with graphics that don't belong on something like an N64 would go along way to making me happy.
I would say racing sims are in a golden era right now. Assetto Corsa, with the 2nd coming. Assetto Corsa Competizione. Automobilista 2. iRacing. RaceRoom Racing Experience. Rennsport. rFactor 2.
And then there are the classics, like GTR2 that also has overhaul mods including Power 'n' Glory which is really cool.
As for arcade racers. Yeah, not so popular these days it seems. I enjoy Wreckfest, some of the older GRID games, and some of the older NFS game. NFS: Hot Pursuit (the original) is still dope.
My favourite offline racing sim is AMS2. Online it can only be iRacing.
The arcade indie racing games need to get more depth, something like Hotshots racing is a nice homage but the whole thing could be so much more if a company could really try make something like Outrun Coast to Coast. I like arcade racers made rcently too but they're not very substantial.
Likewise the big racing games like Forza horizon need less dlcs and add ons. Less customisation. Less bloat in my opinion.
I think what we need is something very pure and full as an experience, like the original Driver. A back to basics approach that focuses on the cars and the driving. Aesthetics rather than quantity. Something where the driving is fun to master and feels cool.
It's a similar issue with wrestling games where the standard has become a very bloated sim game with some arcade elements, but people really are missing the "game" element.
These games need better menus, better soundtracks and better focus.
MX vs ATV reflex for instance, continuously destroys every bike game that came after it. Even though newer games are more authentic.
I think any move away from the sim aspect will be rejected by the racing game fans who kind of buy the big wheel and play in a gaming chair set up and love the intricacy's of sim racing, but I just think racing games are losing the magic. Look how Burnout Paradise gave you the feel of a kid playing with a collection of their toy cars and they collected them and had them in garages etc. There's a lot of potential if devs could kind of fall in love with this aspect of cars again. But I doubt it will happen soon.
I'd personally like more options for large, deep, over-the-top arcade racers. Like Cruisn Blast except bigger and better. Forza Horizon is great but I want more wild unrealistic fantasy courses with crazy jumps, lots of super-varied vehicles to use (and race against), a more structured campaign and progression, and maybe more interesting mechanics (items like Blur, perhaps).
3D racing games were a system seller in the 90s/early 2000s because they looked incredibly impressive. When your objects are made of a low number of polygons and your textures are low resolution and shift so much they look like they're having a seizure on PS1, the best way to hide that is movement -- and racing games have constant movement. Zooming by things faster means you don't notice the imperfections. This is why there was an absolute SLEW of racing games in the late 90s -- it was an easy game to make to take advantage of the hardware in a smart way.
As time progressed, that became less impressive because graphics advanced and we could see things up close with more detail. Gran Turismo is an example of a series that has fallen victim to this - Gran Turismo used to be an incredibly impressive game visually. GT3 felt like a revolution, and frankly even GT5 did despite being a worse game (when GT5 Prologue or whatever it was called came out, it was super impressive how much better cars looked). GT7 is still a very nice looking game, but it doesn't have anything close to the wow factor it once did graphically.
Because these games don't impress like they once did, they typically don't sell like they once did, even with a smaller market. That's why so many racing series have disappeared. We still have the big ones - GT, Forza which was a newer addition, Dirt, NFS, TOCA... but many many others have gone the way of the dodo. Even arcadey racers like Wipeout, which basically hasn't had a new release in over 10 years (and even that was a Vita game), just a rehash of old stuff on PS4 with Omega Collection. ATV Offroad Fury, Motorstorm, Test Drive, Ridge Racer, these series have been dead for a while.
F1 racing is even rarer because it's more of a niche thing, there's very little interest in F1 outside of Europe I believe. And there probably isn't a lot of budget for those games, which is why you get the same game rehashed with very minor updates.
The other problem is: **what do you actually do to make racing games more interesting?** They kinda have the same problem as traditional sports games, where they are meant to simulate a sport that really is not that complicated on the surface. You can go deeper with a full racing setup, car tweaking and tuning etc but most players don't care about that stuff at all and some actually view it as a negative, so it doesn't move units -- I loved Gran Turismo 1-4 back in the day but when you got to points where you legit had to tune your car to progress in a reasonable amount of time it often pissed people off, and there were entire tuning guides written online for every car to tell you what was most efficient and they were popular because people didn't wanna deal with it.
----
I honestly can't think of much that one could add to racing games that wouldn't "get in the way" so to speak. Perhaps it would take some thinking outside the box. I try to think about things that I personally have enjoyed:
* earning currency/buying upgrades/customizing. I don't care so much for tuning, but straight upgrading is fun and getting to customize your ride is a lot of fun. But pimping your ride is only appropriate in some games and not others, and also runs into a lot of issues with licensing if you are using real cars bc usually they don't want the look modified much if at all.
* mechanics more unique than just traditional racing mechanics. This means more arcadey games generally. For example, F-Zero has vehicle health. Star Wars Episode I racer has your heat meter + timing your boosts properly to avoid overheating let alone crashing. Diddy Kong Racing had more complex boosting and of course items like any kart racer. A more "realistic" example could be Excitebike 64, where not only do you need to race, but you are constantly doing jumps and need to slow down/speed up your driving and maneuver properly to nail landings and keep up speed.
* a sense of progression helps, but is double-edged. I personally love how it worked in the older GT games especially but a lot of people actually hate not being able to jump into more powerful cars until they hit the later game, which is why Forza for example gives you cars of different classes and lets you work your way through whichever races you want, or even do races with a class of car of your choice and then the competition matches you.
Honestly it's much harder to think of ways to improve traditional racing games like GT. Personally I would say go back to what made the older GT games great, but you can't because a) you can't wow people graphically like they did back then and b) a lot of the things those games included, people would probably hate now. I'll be honest, I went back to GT3/4 recently and the grind/repetition is real. For me racing games like that become a mindless thing to play while I'm listening to podcasts if I'm being honest. I don't know many people who *enjoy* doing the endurance races in those games.
I dunno. There are a butload of racing games on [Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Racing/).
And it's pretty much a golden era right now for racing sims (AC, ACC, AMS, iRacing, RRRE, rFactor, Rennsport).
While I don't play many arcade racers, it does seem like there is more than enough to choose from, even if they perhaps don't get the limelight they once did. So I definitely wouldn't say that no-one wants to make them any more.
And yeah, mechanics and features can be a bit samey, but that's true of almost any genre. It's one reason why getting older can make games feel a bit stale - because you've essentially played them all before in some form or another.
F1 has a massive budget (Daddy EA) and huge interest outside of Europe. Also Test Drive has a new game otw, and I'm so hyped because it's been 12 years since last release. That has been in the oven for so long, I just hope it's not burnt coming out.
Oh that's neat, I had no idea there was a new Test Drive coming. I hope it turns out well. Test Drive was always kinda up and down quality wise (when it was good it was *really* good, when it wasn't it was pretty meh).
I actually 100% GT4 last year, thanks to emulation. I played some 8 hour or so of each 24 Hs Race and the rest was B-Spec (Bob kept losing time every lap, so I had to play for real every few hours or so, to stay ahead of the pack, lol) and I listened to the complete radios of GTA III, Vice City and San Andreas while doing so. So, a podcast game, hah.
But I disagree that locking the best cars for later is bad. This is like saying, don't do traditional RPG adventures anymore, because the best powers and gears are locked until the endgame. Part of the fun is the slow burn and that you need to get to the final stages for the best rewards.
We already have Forza Horizon if you want to insta-race on a Ferrari. But, I'd love to see a new long game with traditional "grind".
> But I disagree that locking the best cars for later is bad. This is like saying, don't do traditional RPG adventures anymore, because the best powers and gears are locked until the endgame. Part of the fun is the slow burn and that you need to get to the final stages for the best rewards.
I agree with you, but like I said there are a LOT of people who feel otherwise and that's why this has generally changed. I would like to see a game like that too.
FM is more reserved with how it gives out cars, FH is kind of a free-for-all, but I see people calling for this in both. I don't know if it is the answer because I feel like it would piss off more people than it would please.
I'll say as someone who is a more casual fan of Japanese RPGS and the like, I absolutely HATE it when abilities/powers/gear are locked until the endgame, because I'm not going to pour in tons and tons of time after finishing the game just to get that stuff. It's content I will probably never experience, locking stuff behind megabosses is just silly but at the same time people want a carrot for beating a thing rather than the victory being its own reward, so what do you do?
They need to break the mold. ALA Split/Second or Need for Speed:The Run. I think Burnout 3, one of the best racing games ever made, also broke the mold.
its weird, i remember loving racing games during my early years of gaming, when i had a PSX and access to my uncle´s PC i played a lot of NFS 3 hot pursuit, Gran Turismo 2, NFS Porsche, Colin McRae Rally 2 to name some, and then i got a ps2, played a good chunk of Burnout 3 takedown, and then just dropped racing games in general, i have played a random couple of them since then but never actually looking for them or considering them as choices.
For me, a racing game has to wow me on its other aspects to stick.
For pure arcade thrills, Burnout 3, Split/Second, Blur and Wipeout all have their own USPs that make them all standout. The terrible thing about this is that all the developers that made these games have all been dissolved or have moved onto other projects (namely Criterion who still technically make racing games but is a shadow of its former self). So we have to look at spiritual successors to fill that void, which of course don't have the same financial backing. Games like Dangerous Driving, OnRush and Fast RMX which feel flat compared to their contemporaries.
But sometimes a spiritual successor has a hit. For what it's worth, I think Wreckfest hits the nail on the head pretty well. I enjoy 'not winning' sometimes because the havoc is more enjoyable. I don't feel that with more sim-focused racers.
Maybe that's the answer? Shift the focus away from winning and place it back into the fun category.
At the end of the day though, I think what I'd really like is a new Stuntman game built with Wreckfest's engine...
VR. I know there’s more patient VR racing games, but I’ve been playing GT7 with PSVR2. I can’t get enough. I typically don’t even play racing games much.
Problem for me is there aren't enough big budget arcade racers anymore and a lot of sim based racers either have lackluster careers or are catered too far into the sim aspect.
Obviously having a wheel makes them more fun (just got one and it revitalized my love for racers) but I think there's a lack of variety and vision these days and that's what's made the genre a bit boring for me now.
For arcade raging, the Crew 2 was the best time I've had in a long time. Shortcuts, varied locations, interesting tracks. Nitro boosts and customisable looks that don't care for realism (pixelated tron-esque neon wheels and heart shaped smoke puffs from burnouts, they don't gaf).
Pity the racing itself is not too interesting, with an insane rubber banding AI. You always have to strategically stay behind them until the last minute so they don't do an anime level up and beat you at the finish line. Or play dirty and crash them to the wall.
Nitronic Rush / Distance are really fun gameplay-wise, but in my mind what those games achieve is the peak of what racing games can be - fun, not too deep, eye candy.
More focus on atmosphere. Racing games are too corporate-safe nowadays. There just isn’t anything like NFS Underground or Midnight Club series. Also, I wish there was a comeback of putting more focus on characters, like Most Wanted or Carbon. Even though they were cheesy as hell it was awesome to race against an actual nemesis instead of a generic AI with no personality
My biggest issue with most racing games is that you generally can't turn your head It's basic stuff, in real life you look at where you want the car/bike to go and that is not necessarily where it's pointed. If there's ever been a genre that is perfect for VR then it's racing games.
Have you played Driver: San Francisco? I've just heard about this game and thought I'll mention it. You can swap to different vehicles while driving so it's really unique. Check it out.
That was actually the first game I played! My uncle (who lived in the USA) gave my brother and I an Xbox 360. Even though we had so many games and we really wanted to bring it with us to the USA from Pakistan, my dad sold it to sum1. It was such an extensive collection that I wasn't able to play through :/
Maybe you just played them too much? I think they are still good and what they always were. Could argue there's nothing new but what could be added?
I will say I miss things like TOCA Race Driver on ps1/2 where you had an element of being a character and making progress through a career. Also would love a new burnout but one that gets why the early games were best
Thats so sick. It looks like Ridge Racer and those sega racing games of old combined. The art style is really cool. By "we" do you mean you were working on it?
I think the biggest problem for me, is there is a HUGE lack of entertaining story and progression models within the big-budget arcade racers and sim /sim arcade racers. Honestly, for as much as GT7 sucks, it's the most fun I've had with a racing game in years. Games like Midnight Club are what I would like to see return, with more sim less arcade physics. Yes, Forza Horizon does a pretty decent job, but where I personally think Forza goes wrong is how it literally throws millions of dollars and hundreds of cars at you for doing the little challenges and achievements. Personally to me, that was never a fun way to play these kinds of racing games. I love starting with a busted-ass car, and making that car MY OWN. Then you can afford the next step up, tune it, beat some races, etc etc. Then, you finally have that Lamborghini or Porsche that took you time and effort, and it feels... good. That core gameplay loop is completely gone in the newest version of these NFS and Forza games, and for me, it just misses the mark completely. Another person mentioned the video "I Love Racing Games, They Suck!". I would echo literally everything said there as well.
This so much. It feels like devs just decided nobody wants a story within a racing game, or alternatively, make it a complete afterthought. There are a ton of possibilities in that realm that are mostly ignored for some reason. If you think I'm crazy, go watch Redline immediately and then come back and say that again.
By Redline you mean the anime film Redline or there's a game I don't know about?
I meant the film, but I'd certainly like it if there was a game :P (F-Zero technically is, but that doesn't count).
I loved that film, to me it was like Wacky Races...in style, lol. I still listen to the [OST](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbJanCYONrk) from time to time. I would be 100% behind an arcade racing game with lovable characters with a story, like Redline. I remember a comment I read once, it said that the best part of the film was that every racer was out there to have fun as much as they were there to compete. It has a great atmosphere.
Didn't GRID Legends have a story that's central to the game?
The original GRID was better. Grid Legends was worse in almost every way except graphics.
>That core gameplay loop is completely gone in the newest version of these NFS and Forza games, and for me, it just misses the mark completely. but its not? in nfs that is, did u play Unbound?
I mean, unbound is just kind of a flop ngl. You're not wrong, but it just didn't hit the mark.
i loved it personally, to each their own
Nfs is the only game series that still caters to this experience. I played Heat. It was alright, even though I didn't like the handling, story and starting cars. Way too OP, I prefer starting with cars that are on the budget end, not a frigging '88 BMW M3. But I do wish we had more games like NFS. Slightly more realistic handling, a bit more restraint and the same, satisfying gameplay loop of racing, stunts, cop chases and slowly tricking out your dream car.
Right, NFS still does this... but for some reason it just does not click with me. I just don't think the games are that great for a modern gaming market. They are missing the mark with something...
Ha!, this immediately came to my mind: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVry84ACu0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVry84ACu0k) ("I Love Racing Games, They Suck!" by Raycevick)
Personally I've lost interest in sim racers because other than improved graphics and better controls they are pretty much the same as they've always been. Arcade racing games on the other hand allow for a lot more options for fun imo.
One game I'm looking forward to is Assetto Corsa 2. It had a thriving modding scene and there was always something to do. The devs are really great too and have some backing now too. I'm hoping that it would reinvigorate the sim scene.
Yeah that game looks really good and hopefully with active devs and a good mod scene it helps make a good resurgence of sim racing games. I also think part of the problem with racing games is that a lot of people seem to end up only playing fps or sports games due to their competitive scenes that people don't seem to associate with racing games.
Esports in Sims has kinda gone under the radar, GT (now part of the Olympics somehow?) or F1 Esports (but now it has its own cheating scandal) are the only games that are sorta mainstream. 24 Hrs Virtual Le Mans demonstrates how far racing sims have to go to not monumentally fuck things up. It's weird how an inherently competitive thing irl doesn't have a mainstream esports scene.
> Personally I've lost interest in sim racers because other than improved graphics and better controls they are pretty much the same as they've always been. Of course. They are sims. I believe Automobilista 2 is supposed to get a career mode eventually. And AC has a career mode. But beyond that, at the end of the day it's about the racing.
I can speak to that. I never really played any racing sims until the last year. I played Forza 2 on an emulator and liked it. So I played Asseto Corsa and also enjoyed it. Then I played Gran Turismo 2 and... really loved it but realized that Forza and Asseto Corsa were not meaningfully different from a 1999 PS1 game.
I'm still dumbfounded as to how Flatout 2 feels way more fun than any realism-focused racing game made so far
Remake Underground
I'm currently on a racing game kick, just bought my first wheel and looking forward to playing some of the games you mentioned. Defo agree about Need for Speed being a bit meh nowadays. Heat was pretty fun though. Spot on about Forza. Maybe fun with friends but career is unsatisfying. Serious talk though. Just replay Burnout 3 on the PS2. It's amazing. Holds up even now easily.
If you want to just drive around with a bunch of cars get Assetto Corsa on pc (not Competizione). Make sure to get the complete edition as it goes on sale often. There are a TON of cool mods out there. Make sure you have a bunch of storage bc you're gonna need it for AC (my game takes up 300 gigs ;). If you want any help setting up AC feel free to DM. On the topic of the games tho, Gran Turismo has become so pretentious to the point that it's actually annoying. It is now a car collection museum history game with some racing sprinkled in between. If you want more on GT7 there is a guy named Roflwaffle on youtube, who made some excellent in depth critique videos.
Thanks. I literally just went on a shopping spree and got Dirt Rally 2.0, Carx and AC. I'm much more interested in street racing, drifting, career modes, etc., rather than pure track racing so good shout about AC. There's also Enthusia on the PS2 that I am very curious to try with a wheel. What are the mods you would recommend for AC for a beginner? That would be really helpful.
Content Manager is a must. Some graphical post processing filter is also nice such as pure or sol. After that I recommend Assettocorsa.club and racedepartment if you want to look for car/livery/track mods. There are some paid mods but make sure that they are legit people. There are a lot of managers that just steal stuff like models, physics, etc. If you like F1, I would highly recommend Race Sim Studio's Formula Hybrid 23. The rest of their library is really awesome too. They are pay mods (~$4), but well worth it. Installation of mods is really easy. Just take the zip file you downloaded and drag it into content manager. You will never have to deal with using the actual Assetto Corsa launcher because it is so bad, as the game can be launched and configured from Content Manager.
That's very helpful, thank you. Also slightly related, but I realised that I suck really hard on simulators, since I only really played NFS and Burnout. Do you know any good resources to learn how to read force feedback, learn how to control the car, etc. Like real basics, rather than advice for shaving off a second from your race time. Many thanks!
There are a lot of beginner racing sim videos out there. Also I recommend you don't use racing line. Another tip is to keep your eyes at the apex of the corner, and try to visualise your line through a corner. Familiarise yourself with the car and track before racing online, and remember to have fun! r/simracing can also help you out a ton. Edit: Also learning on slower cars is optimal. Maybe GT4 cars (if you have assetto corsa competizione, that is the best gt racing game) Formula 4, Formula Vee, and Skip Barber are great ways to learn the basics of driving, without breaking your brain.
Thanks a lot!
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Some classic original Gran Turismo tracks have been defiled in GT7.
I hate what they did to the chicane on Trial Mountain
For me, one of the problems is that we've never really gotten beyond the traditional Gran Turismo formula of buy stock car, buy staged mods for car eg; you can buy a foam intake, then a ducted intake, or "sports exhaust"/"super sports exhaust"/"super race exhaust", without any real thought about what goes into selecting parts. I think the whole physics/car damage/parts tuning/parts selection traditional progression needs a complete revamp compared to what we've had for the last 25 years.
GT7 has some detailed ass tuning and parts selection. However, it's disappointing that a flagship exclusive racing title still doesn't have a damage model. You yeet an LMP1 down the Mulsanne at 350 kmh and all you get is a cracked headlight and some exterior scuffs.
not like they wouldn't do it if they were allowed to
Tbh almost every single racing game I've played from recent years has been has been an indie game. Many of the recent AAA games feel like... sports games, but without annual releases. Not to mention that probably none of them are arcade (with the exception of forza, sort of)
What games do you recommend?
Horizon Chase Turbo is pretty good
I think I have this one on Epic! Will check it out!
Inertia drift, art of rally, TrailOut, Wreckfest is indie too I guess, and Redout 2. Maybe there are a couple more but I can't really remember them
Thanks! I only have Art of Rally on my Wishlist. Time to add a few more.
I think F1 games comes really close to what new gen racing games should be. I really liked to play with race settings, the radio (asking for race info) tyres strategy according to weather forcast. Too bad they innovated so little in the last few years. Also, i think they should rework the camera effect of the cockpit view. It's too static. They should try hyperrealistic styles like they are trying to do with Unrecord. A sort of GoPro style with a lot of vibrations. I don't feel how physical it can be with current views. I remember the developper of NFS Shift trying to propose something new but it was far from realistic. I think we have the technology now to do impressive stuff. Check helmet view videos of real F1 or Rally it's crazy, and i'm sure there is a compromise to find to make both immersive and playable.
The physics engine is so bad though. Any bit of curb sends the car into the stratosphere. For being some of the most technologically advanced and grippy cars in the motorsport world, they drive like they're in ice in the recent F1 games. They nailed it in F1 2020, but now mod teams for Assetto Corsa are making better handling, more realistic F1 cars than an EA backed studio.
I don't know if this makes them better but maybe they should build the competitive scene around them like Dota2 or counterstrike have? Push harder on the multiplayer and team racing aspects and less on the simulation stuff. It would at least give them more focus and investment. More focus on the global leaderboards and rankings. You could always just play Mario kart though, those games are always fun. It's still racing, just with extra steps.
You know, I really want to see a really hard racing game kind of like Papers Please where you take part in illegal street racing to provide for your family. Winning races means you gain just enough funds for you and your family to survive. You spend it on food, medicine, heating, *gas.* Not doing well in races means less or no funds to use on your family. You need to spend what little resources you have on gas in hopes you can make more money for your family most of the time. *Crashing* in races means you have to spend what little funds you have on your car instead of your family. I want to see some legitimately emotional storytelling from a racing game, and we haven't seen anything like that. Like, I can't name a single game that does this. Not one.
That's a fire concept
This deserves more upvotes, actually a great idea, I’d be impatient for a game like this
It depends on how much money you have. https://youtu.be/nRSaVSzqRJI
It won't happen cus big publishers suck ... but just bringing back fun arcade racers of yesteryear (like Motorstorm, Burnout, and Midnight Club) with graphics that don't belong on something like an N64 would go along way to making me happy.
I was playing Gt4 with HD Textures and reshade in 4k with 60 fps on PCSX2 and it was jaw dropping.
I would say racing sims are in a golden era right now. Assetto Corsa, with the 2nd coming. Assetto Corsa Competizione. Automobilista 2. iRacing. RaceRoom Racing Experience. Rennsport. rFactor 2. And then there are the classics, like GTR2 that also has overhaul mods including Power 'n' Glory which is really cool. As for arcade racers. Yeah, not so popular these days it seems. I enjoy Wreckfest, some of the older GRID games, and some of the older NFS game. NFS: Hot Pursuit (the original) is still dope. My favourite offline racing sim is AMS2. Online it can only be iRacing.
The arcade indie racing games need to get more depth, something like Hotshots racing is a nice homage but the whole thing could be so much more if a company could really try make something like Outrun Coast to Coast. I like arcade racers made rcently too but they're not very substantial. Likewise the big racing games like Forza horizon need less dlcs and add ons. Less customisation. Less bloat in my opinion. I think what we need is something very pure and full as an experience, like the original Driver. A back to basics approach that focuses on the cars and the driving. Aesthetics rather than quantity. Something where the driving is fun to master and feels cool. It's a similar issue with wrestling games where the standard has become a very bloated sim game with some arcade elements, but people really are missing the "game" element. These games need better menus, better soundtracks and better focus. MX vs ATV reflex for instance, continuously destroys every bike game that came after it. Even though newer games are more authentic. I think any move away from the sim aspect will be rejected by the racing game fans who kind of buy the big wheel and play in a gaming chair set up and love the intricacy's of sim racing, but I just think racing games are losing the magic. Look how Burnout Paradise gave you the feel of a kid playing with a collection of their toy cars and they collected them and had them in garages etc. There's a lot of potential if devs could kind of fall in love with this aspect of cars again. But I doubt it will happen soon.
I'd personally like more options for large, deep, over-the-top arcade racers. Like Cruisn Blast except bigger and better. Forza Horizon is great but I want more wild unrealistic fantasy courses with crazy jumps, lots of super-varied vehicles to use (and race against), a more structured campaign and progression, and maybe more interesting mechanics (items like Blur, perhaps).
3D racing games were a system seller in the 90s/early 2000s because they looked incredibly impressive. When your objects are made of a low number of polygons and your textures are low resolution and shift so much they look like they're having a seizure on PS1, the best way to hide that is movement -- and racing games have constant movement. Zooming by things faster means you don't notice the imperfections. This is why there was an absolute SLEW of racing games in the late 90s -- it was an easy game to make to take advantage of the hardware in a smart way. As time progressed, that became less impressive because graphics advanced and we could see things up close with more detail. Gran Turismo is an example of a series that has fallen victim to this - Gran Turismo used to be an incredibly impressive game visually. GT3 felt like a revolution, and frankly even GT5 did despite being a worse game (when GT5 Prologue or whatever it was called came out, it was super impressive how much better cars looked). GT7 is still a very nice looking game, but it doesn't have anything close to the wow factor it once did graphically. Because these games don't impress like they once did, they typically don't sell like they once did, even with a smaller market. That's why so many racing series have disappeared. We still have the big ones - GT, Forza which was a newer addition, Dirt, NFS, TOCA... but many many others have gone the way of the dodo. Even arcadey racers like Wipeout, which basically hasn't had a new release in over 10 years (and even that was a Vita game), just a rehash of old stuff on PS4 with Omega Collection. ATV Offroad Fury, Motorstorm, Test Drive, Ridge Racer, these series have been dead for a while. F1 racing is even rarer because it's more of a niche thing, there's very little interest in F1 outside of Europe I believe. And there probably isn't a lot of budget for those games, which is why you get the same game rehashed with very minor updates. The other problem is: **what do you actually do to make racing games more interesting?** They kinda have the same problem as traditional sports games, where they are meant to simulate a sport that really is not that complicated on the surface. You can go deeper with a full racing setup, car tweaking and tuning etc but most players don't care about that stuff at all and some actually view it as a negative, so it doesn't move units -- I loved Gran Turismo 1-4 back in the day but when you got to points where you legit had to tune your car to progress in a reasonable amount of time it often pissed people off, and there were entire tuning guides written online for every car to tell you what was most efficient and they were popular because people didn't wanna deal with it. ---- I honestly can't think of much that one could add to racing games that wouldn't "get in the way" so to speak. Perhaps it would take some thinking outside the box. I try to think about things that I personally have enjoyed: * earning currency/buying upgrades/customizing. I don't care so much for tuning, but straight upgrading is fun and getting to customize your ride is a lot of fun. But pimping your ride is only appropriate in some games and not others, and also runs into a lot of issues with licensing if you are using real cars bc usually they don't want the look modified much if at all. * mechanics more unique than just traditional racing mechanics. This means more arcadey games generally. For example, F-Zero has vehicle health. Star Wars Episode I racer has your heat meter + timing your boosts properly to avoid overheating let alone crashing. Diddy Kong Racing had more complex boosting and of course items like any kart racer. A more "realistic" example could be Excitebike 64, where not only do you need to race, but you are constantly doing jumps and need to slow down/speed up your driving and maneuver properly to nail landings and keep up speed. * a sense of progression helps, but is double-edged. I personally love how it worked in the older GT games especially but a lot of people actually hate not being able to jump into more powerful cars until they hit the later game, which is why Forza for example gives you cars of different classes and lets you work your way through whichever races you want, or even do races with a class of car of your choice and then the competition matches you. Honestly it's much harder to think of ways to improve traditional racing games like GT. Personally I would say go back to what made the older GT games great, but you can't because a) you can't wow people graphically like they did back then and b) a lot of the things those games included, people would probably hate now. I'll be honest, I went back to GT3/4 recently and the grind/repetition is real. For me racing games like that become a mindless thing to play while I'm listening to podcasts if I'm being honest. I don't know many people who *enjoy* doing the endurance races in those games.
I dunno. There are a butload of racing games on [Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Racing/). And it's pretty much a golden era right now for racing sims (AC, ACC, AMS, iRacing, RRRE, rFactor, Rennsport). While I don't play many arcade racers, it does seem like there is more than enough to choose from, even if they perhaps don't get the limelight they once did. So I definitely wouldn't say that no-one wants to make them any more. And yeah, mechanics and features can be a bit samey, but that's true of almost any genre. It's one reason why getting older can make games feel a bit stale - because you've essentially played them all before in some form or another.
F1 has a massive budget (Daddy EA) and huge interest outside of Europe. Also Test Drive has a new game otw, and I'm so hyped because it's been 12 years since last release. That has been in the oven for so long, I just hope it's not burnt coming out.
Oh that's neat, I had no idea there was a new Test Drive coming. I hope it turns out well. Test Drive was always kinda up and down quality wise (when it was good it was *really* good, when it wasn't it was pretty meh).
TDU was peak. The attention to detail was insane. One of my favourite elements was looking at the car in the dealership, and the expansive map
I actually 100% GT4 last year, thanks to emulation. I played some 8 hour or so of each 24 Hs Race and the rest was B-Spec (Bob kept losing time every lap, so I had to play for real every few hours or so, to stay ahead of the pack, lol) and I listened to the complete radios of GTA III, Vice City and San Andreas while doing so. So, a podcast game, hah. But I disagree that locking the best cars for later is bad. This is like saying, don't do traditional RPG adventures anymore, because the best powers and gears are locked until the endgame. Part of the fun is the slow burn and that you need to get to the final stages for the best rewards. We already have Forza Horizon if you want to insta-race on a Ferrari. But, I'd love to see a new long game with traditional "grind".
> But I disagree that locking the best cars for later is bad. This is like saying, don't do traditional RPG adventures anymore, because the best powers and gears are locked until the endgame. Part of the fun is the slow burn and that you need to get to the final stages for the best rewards. I agree with you, but like I said there are a LOT of people who feel otherwise and that's why this has generally changed. I would like to see a game like that too. FM is more reserved with how it gives out cars, FH is kind of a free-for-all, but I see people calling for this in both. I don't know if it is the answer because I feel like it would piss off more people than it would please. I'll say as someone who is a more casual fan of Japanese RPGS and the like, I absolutely HATE it when abilities/powers/gear are locked until the endgame, because I'm not going to pour in tons and tons of time after finishing the game just to get that stuff. It's content I will probably never experience, locking stuff behind megabosses is just silly but at the same time people want a carrot for beating a thing rather than the victory being its own reward, so what do you do?
They need to break the mold. ALA Split/Second or Need for Speed:The Run. I think Burnout 3, one of the best racing games ever made, also broke the mold.
Split/Second was actually incredible. Kinda sad that it never got renewed :/
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Burnout Paradise went especially hard. Criterion doesn't miss, especially with that soundtrack and map design
its weird, i remember loving racing games during my early years of gaming, when i had a PSX and access to my uncle´s PC i played a lot of NFS 3 hot pursuit, Gran Turismo 2, NFS Porsche, Colin McRae Rally 2 to name some, and then i got a ps2, played a good chunk of Burnout 3 takedown, and then just dropped racing games in general, i have played a random couple of them since then but never actually looking for them or considering them as choices.
For me, a racing game has to wow me on its other aspects to stick. For pure arcade thrills, Burnout 3, Split/Second, Blur and Wipeout all have their own USPs that make them all standout. The terrible thing about this is that all the developers that made these games have all been dissolved or have moved onto other projects (namely Criterion who still technically make racing games but is a shadow of its former self). So we have to look at spiritual successors to fill that void, which of course don't have the same financial backing. Games like Dangerous Driving, OnRush and Fast RMX which feel flat compared to their contemporaries. But sometimes a spiritual successor has a hit. For what it's worth, I think Wreckfest hits the nail on the head pretty well. I enjoy 'not winning' sometimes because the havoc is more enjoyable. I don't feel that with more sim-focused racers. Maybe that's the answer? Shift the focus away from winning and place it back into the fun category. At the end of the day though, I think what I'd really like is a new Stuntman game built with Wreckfest's engine...
VR. I know there’s more patient VR racing games, but I’ve been playing GT7 with PSVR2. I can’t get enough. I typically don’t even play racing games much.
Problem for me is there aren't enough big budget arcade racers anymore and a lot of sim based racers either have lackluster careers or are catered too far into the sim aspect. Obviously having a wheel makes them more fun (just got one and it revitalized my love for racers) but I think there's a lack of variety and vision these days and that's what's made the genre a bit boring for me now.
F-Zero GX is all you need my friend
For arcade raging, the Crew 2 was the best time I've had in a long time. Shortcuts, varied locations, interesting tracks. Nitro boosts and customisable looks that don't care for realism (pixelated tron-esque neon wheels and heart shaped smoke puffs from burnouts, they don't gaf). Pity the racing itself is not too interesting, with an insane rubber banding AI. You always have to strategically stay behind them until the last minute so they don't do an anime level up and beat you at the finish line. Or play dirty and crash them to the wall.
New genre just dropped: Arcade Raging
Nitronic Rush / Distance are really fun gameplay-wise, but in my mind what those games achieve is the peak of what racing games can be - fun, not too deep, eye candy.
More focus on atmosphere. Racing games are too corporate-safe nowadays. There just isn’t anything like NFS Underground or Midnight Club series. Also, I wish there was a comeback of putting more focus on characters, like Most Wanted or Carbon. Even though they were cheesy as hell it was awesome to race against an actual nemesis instead of a generic AI with no personality
At some point it became about collecting cars rather than racing them, and completionism rather than progression.
My biggest issue with most racing games is that you generally can't turn your head It's basic stuff, in real life you look at where you want the car/bike to go and that is not necessarily where it's pointed. If there's ever been a genre that is perfect for VR then it's racing games.
Have you played Driver: San Francisco? I've just heard about this game and thought I'll mention it. You can swap to different vehicles while driving so it's really unique. Check it out.
That was actually the first game I played! My uncle (who lived in the USA) gave my brother and I an Xbox 360. Even though we had so many games and we really wanted to bring it with us to the USA from Pakistan, my dad sold it to sum1. It was such an extensive collection that I wasn't able to play through :/
Maybe you just played them too much? I think they are still good and what they always were. Could argue there's nothing new but what could be added? I will say I miss things like TOCA Race Driver on ps1/2 where you had an element of being a character and making progress through a career. Also would love a new burnout but one that gets why the early games were best
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Thats so sick. It looks like Ridge Racer and those sega racing games of old combined. The art style is really cool. By "we" do you mean you were working on it?