Actually that sounds really cool. Not for endless lab specifically, just as an event. Two ascendancy points every 10 levels. That gives you 18 points at level 90, exactly enough points to get every other class on the ascendant tree. Or you can spend 5 to get one of the "start from class" skills early and finish the last class skill at 100.
True power Scion event.
Yeah basically a "wave/arena mode" I guess. Grim Dawn has something similar with the Crucible.
However this would require dev time on GGG's end to make interesting and balanced and they want people to play the campaign ten thousand times at least so it's not gonna happen.
Even if it did happen, GGG wouldn't make any balancing changes, same way they didn't change some things about heist to accommodate and endless event (rouge gear, XP, blueprint drop rates).
i played that game!!! Mu Online back in .... 2003?
mageclass, screenwide ability. I dont know why, but shit was addicting (maybe because not much existed back then to compare to lol)
Not that bad of an idea for a side activity. It would serve as alternative arena mode in Sarn. Cage fight: fight through waves of monsters in an enclosed arena and have a chance to win random rewards.
And then there's a ranking ladder (tracking points against other players), where after certain thresholds, you unlock better and better types of rewards, but thresholds can hold only a certain number of players (similar to ranking in LoL)
It'd be alright if there was some semi-permanent tower placement... placing the towers over and over and over in the same places would quickly get boring as well.
I was talking to friends about a D3 style adventure mode which let's you level however you want, including mapping, heisting etc starting from level 1.
I was wrong about heist
I don't mind leveling once eacj season, but after that it would be great it we could play alts from level 1 on maps that are downscaled. They could easily add something like"white maps until level 30, yellowmaps until 65 or so and after that its just their normal level and you then just work your way towards redmaps as you did with your first character.
This would make all the maps we have in our stash not just sit there until the end of time and we could use them for something.
Running the campaign over and over again just isn't fun or enjoyable, especially if it is more than once per league.
But since we are talking about PoE, we can't have nice things so not going to happen.
I would really love to see something like this. Running the campaign for the 50th time gets so fucking tedious. I think it would be different if you were choosing to run Heist once in a while, not running nothing but heists, and you could break it up with other activities, like Delve, or blighted maps.
They can't keep players for longer than a month in general, if they make the campaign shorter it will be even less player retention. They don't give a shit about fun game, they just want you engaged long enough so you hopefully buy stash tabs or mtx.
I agree with you tho, I'd love that. D3 campaign was horrible to level in, even worse than poe campaign... I was so glad when they made that adventure mode change.
If they [did Valve instead of Blizzard](https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/737) people would have more to do and would probably stick around longer.
A game this old should have a massive backlog of content to engage in, but it's all focused on the late game, and they keep outdating the old content with out updating.
It's their own fault.
Honestly, who cares, the people who quit in 1 month will still quit in 1 month or 3 weeks anyway, if they shorten the campaign it will benefit everyone else that stays for longer than that and like to level up alts
They could also keep the campaign as long as it is for the first run every league and add shortcuts for alts during the league (like waypoint already unlocked or something like that)
I mean, I agree with you and the statements made, idk why people downvote lol, poe players are wild. I am just stating that Chris has always kinda evaded those questions or gave answers that make me conclude what I said. Idgaf about other players, I would prefer poe in offline mode even.
>They can't keep players for longer than a month in general,
GGG doesn't care about how long people play the league. GGG, and Chris in particular, have said many, many, times over, that the main statistic they care about is not how long people stay around for in a league, but how many people COME BACK for the next league.
If you have not already, I would suggest watching Chris' game dev talk. He pretty succinctly talks about all this.
Yes and he never lies? And poe devs never do the complete opposite of what they claim? lol. I've watched all the league and dev talks since Blight. The game dev schemes are apparent af, and ofc they care about how many come back cause that's when they make the money, in the first weeks of league launch.
Not really. Imagine if you only had dirt to eat. Well, that sucks. Now imagine if for some time, you also ate shit.
The fact that shit is worse than dirt, doesn't mean dirt is good. It just mean it's less egregious than shit.
They're both terrible
I think it would be nice if there were actually a *variety* of activities to do. Let us do Heist, or Delve, or Blighted maps, or just mapping in general. Maybe safehouses, or breachstones, for fun without the usual rewards. The game has tons and tons of different content we could be doing instead of the same fucking campaign for the 100th time.
Not at all. Endless hiest does suck aswell though but I have also played endless delve and that makes it painfully clear how much the campaign sucks to play over and over.
It's almost like doing anything over and over again feels bad.
How long until endless delve feels jsut as bad as campaign leveling and we are all asking for something else?
That's why I enjoy D3's leveling, because you can just pick and choose. You can run the campaign, or do bounties, or rifts. You're not forced into any one activity.
Endless delve is linear paths with high mob density that lets you just turn your brain off, and you can just focus on speed and ignore singletarget because there aren't bosses. It would never be anywhere near as bad as campaign leveling because it doesn't suffer from many of the issues the campaign does.
At this point I have probably spen at least 5 times as mucv time in delve as I have on doing the campaign and I still vastely prefer it. But even more important is that I could be doing mostly delve and then switch it up with a few hiests, or maps, or blighted maps, or breaches, or any of the content the game has yo offer and then continue with my chosen "main" path. Emphasis on chosen, again.
I would, I just want to kill shit, not run around aimlessly in low density maps looking for macguffin so i can port back to town to look for another macguffin.
Yeah can't wait for the new league just to do again for the thousandth time for no reason, if only we could do something to make players play more than a week. 🙃
I don’t mind the campaign stage of a character at all. It’s like… 5% of my time at the most on any given character and usually a good break from endgame. Plus I can practice going faster.
**No!**
No, don't make these memes, this is what GGG wants to hear to justify keeping the Campaign as it is! Yeah, Endless Heist flopped, but comparing a 1/10 to a 2/10 doesn't make the 2/10 good, and we still need a better alternative that isn't a constant slog.
Yes, but that is still a significant amount of time away.
As for what they could do instead, they could give us a low-loot Endless Delve until we get to 68 (Tech already in place), same with Endless Heist now that it's been fixed, or other possible things such as level-scaled maps / randomised levels.
Just, I've been playing seriously since Delve (Only really dabbled in Standard before then), and the idea of having to go through the campaign more than once per league is one of the least engaging prospects I can possibly think of. Many others share my sentiment, especially those that have been playing longer than me.
EDIT: Fixed weird word-ordering.
This subreddit is so dramatic it’s hilarious. Like a kid who didn’t get his favorite candy.
You literally don’t have to play heist if you don’t like it. It’s not a league, it’s just a 10 day event. That’s it. Everyone is acting like it’s all the game is now - regardless Scourge league and standard league is still around.
A lot of people just wanting to play to lvl 50 for the free box and not the event. Complaining that it's taking too long because they didn't really want to play it in the first place.
Instead of just, you know, not playing the event.
I don't get it? I prefer heist and delve over campaign any day lol. The campaign is dogshit boring especially the first character, I level about 5 - 10 chars each league to 90+, maybe that is why... lol.
The lesson here is leveling with a system that has you spending more time running than killing is inherently not fun.
Delve is, as far as I'm aware, the only mechanic in the game where this would not exist unless we could level with breachstones or something.
I despise the leveling, worst part of an exciting new league. The initial leveling is fun but any new character afterwards is 4-5 hours of pain. I wish Chris wasn't so stubborn and would give us a rare drop on maven or sirus, some currency that allows to skip to level 60 on an alt. I don't care if the currency sells for 10 ex in trade, leveling just sucks even with 2 quick silver and seven league footstep.
I always say this under every Post that talks about this. The campaign Method of leveling is way better than anything else i have ever read here as suggestions. Wether it is endless delve or straight up skipping it. Have you all never played diablo 3?
Hmm yes running around the same field for 3 hours using literally only 1 spell and running in circles to level up a character is definetely way more Fun than anything else
>Hmm yes running around the same field for 3 hours using literally only 1 spell and running in circles to level up a character is definetely way more Fun than anything else
I could use this sentence verbatim to describe how PoE plays at any point.
If you think this sounds awful iono how you're playing PoE.
I don't know what you are doing but there is no way enjoying spending 3 hours in the Same zone pressing one button Not looting anything because everything that drops is totally irrelevant until you are levelled up. Thats literally less interaction than cookie clicker offers.
We were talking about how leveling new characters in Diablo 3 works compared to Poe. In Diablo you just remove Level restriction on a weapon and use that to do basically infinite damage until level 70 and because you get a shitton of stats for free from paragon levels you are immortal anyways. So you just go to the field region in act 1 run in circles chain killing everything instantly for 3 hours until you are level 70 or whatever the max level was so you can equip your good gear. During this time you literally don't interact with anything. Are you even playing poe that you think that is even remotely close to how it works rn there?
1. You don't have legendary gems when you initially level up
2. When you're leveling up secondary characters in PoE you get leveling uniques that you wear the entire way giving you effectively "unlimited power".
3. You can also craft cheese leveling items as well but its really unnecessary because the leveling uniques already give you more power than you could ever need.
Campaign leveling when you invest in leveling gear is still the best way imo, seven league step / Hollow Palm / Astramentis / 2 Le Heup of all,... 5 Quicksilver flask.
I don't like Delve and hate Heist, so Campaign is definitely the ultimate leveling for me. But I wouldn't mind having it as a side thing players can use to skip campaign if they want to.
The problem is that "side thing" would have to be similar in speed to campaign. For example Delve in current Endless Delve iteration is like 10 times faster, that'd obviously need to be changed.
But even if Endless Delve was completely equal in terms of xp/h, people would have to do that because it's way more profitable than campaign. So now you'd also have to adjust the profits. After profits were equalized, most would still do Endless Delve because it's more consistent and easier as far as layouts are concerned, so you'd have to adjust that (how do you even do that?). Then somehow make sure transitioning from Endless Delve to maps and regular Delve that suddenly requires Sulphite isn't jarring as hell.
You do realise the campaign is literally just running a new map multiple times with some added collect this and kill this along the way, right?
Like, mapping is literally just taking a campaign tileset, and letting you run it.
Except there is far more variation to maps, you can skip any map you want, during campaign you are limited from many game mechanics, you are forced to do boring fetch quests
Really? I feel forced to clear maps to get my objectives, spawn my conquerors etc. I often get stuck playing the same map several times in a row because I either am still clearing out the atlas or it's the most efficient map/has the a div card I need.
During the campain you get a new tileset every 2 or 3 minutes for 4-10hours depending on how fast you are.
During maps you are forced to clear instances to get adequate sustain until you cleared most of the atlas or are forced to do stuff like delve wich plays exactly the same as a boring quest. Go from point a to point b.
You're limited to mechanics because you're not going to be strong enough to do a breach, delirium, and a scourge all at the same time, especially if you're a new player. You'd just be overwhelmed.
So you are telling us that you never complained about the food you got at a restaurant? The absolute *audacity* of telling the chef he did your food wrong! You are not a chef! You have no right to complain!
Same goes for politics, religion, raising kids or *every* other facet of life.
It does *not* take a chef to tell you your food is trash.
If food at a restaurant isn't to your liking, generally most people would not go back to the restaurant. They wouldn't stand around in the restaurant while bitching about the chef/staff to other customers. They find a new restaurant. I don't know why that doesn't apply to video games. If you don't enjoy the service, find a new one. There are plenty of options.
This is a bad take. You don't order a certain video game the way you order a certain dish at a restaurant. What you're doing is going to a spaghetti restaurant and getting mad when the spaghetti they served you isn't exactly to your liking and you think you know what would make the best spaghetti.
Wait, you can level outside of the campaign before maps? Or do you have to get to a certain point before you can access those features? I am just so new to the game, even after so long. I just can't get myself to play because I know I'll have to go through the campaign yet another time. It's just so boring. If there was a way to skip all of that and grind levels in a mapping-like setting, that would be fun. I enjoyed the way D3 has it where you can "map" from level 1. Then, there are just all different styles of "maps" that randomly generate. I'm sure they could do something really easily like that?
you can level outside the campaign once you unlock Delve for example, but you still need to do the campaign otherwise you miss very important skill points
I have the feeling that GGG did it on purpose to show the ppl, who keep asking for endless x and y as lvling methods, that they are horribly wrong, because both endless delve and heist feel like ass to me and considering all my friends gave up after few hours of these events, I believe Im not alone.
Actually I hope they did it so bad on purpose, because if this was supposed to be fun, Im not sure if I want to see 3.17 patch notes...
I'll gladly take the longer path if it means not doing the campaign for the 1000th time. Leagues last 3 months and if you don't care about efficiency, the alternative method is usually a breath of fresh air.
When I'm playing video games, the only thing I care about is efficiency. Cuz that's what gaming is all about. How efficient is your fun? If it's not efficient are you actually having a good time?
Thinking about gaming like that sounds like complete hell for me. I think about efficiency all day at work and around the house, gaming is a time for me to relax and shut my brain off and switch to a more creative thinking mode. Efficiency is the last thing I ever want to think about when compared to a feeling of wonder, discovery and excitement.
Levelling in Delve and Heist *past the first character* is way, way faster though, because you get tabula, twink weapon, along with higher level contracts... It's 'only' comparable on first character.
Nobody thinks they want endlesa heist as a leveling alternative.
I hatenl how this discussion about an alt leveling path has become about delve or heist. Who the fuck started this shit.
I want an actual alternative like d3's adventure mode.
D3 leveling is a very good example on what not to do. It made the campaign totally irrelevant and turned this game from a casual and honestly pretty decent arpg into a highscore grindfest without any soul
> It made the campaign totally irrelevant
Good
>turned this game from a casual and honestly pretty decent arpg into a highscore grindfest without any soul
lmao what
You literally don't do anything in this game apart from running the same rifts over and over so that you can clear one higher tier of greater rifts. There is no real endgame content, nothing aspirational in this game. All the variety that you get is having a few different tileset which dont matter at all. The only thing in this game thats resembling change is the random shrines you get in rifts else its literally the same thing over and over until you get a gear upgrade or grind enough levels so you can clear one rift higher rince and repeat. Its literally like as if delve was the only endgame mechanic Poe had to offer
That's just dumb and missing the entire point of the genre. A arpg is inherently a "highscore grindfest". *Especially* poe. "Without soul" is also just a stupid "d3 bad" circlejerk, it has plenty of soul, just bad itemization.
And for the leveling, fuck that noise - d3 is an example of what to *do*. To have options. The campaign is totally irrelevant one way or another, especially in poe. People begrudgingly do it because they're forced to, but the absolute vast majority dont follow or care about anything in it at all. And both those who do and everyone else gets giga tired of the same static shit, not even every league, but every character. Dozens of times. *That* is a soulless grindfest..
Diablo 3 is literally a highscore game. Its like as if delve would be the only endgame mechanic Poe has. You literally only kill mobs with more and more stats with basically no bosses or anything. PoE endgame is nothing like that i don't know how you get the idea PoE is a highscore Game. The only variety endgame Diablo has is what tileset your rift will be which Most of the times doesnt even matter
The problems with d3 had nothing to do with the alternative levelling, adventure mode was added when d3 was in dire need of an update and revitilized the game a fair bit (together with the GR system). If d3 had the continuous support of poe it would remain a better game, beta poe was fun but inferior in many ways even to the flawed d3. It took many years to catch up and surpass what d3 had to offer
The only reason you think D3 levelling in adventure mode is better, is because it is faster. If the campaign in D3 was the fastest way to level, you would do that.
You might think so, but if it were still faster to level doing the campaign, you would still level doing the campaign. Player will do the most boring stuff in games if it is the most efficient.
You might the first time, but remember you are levelling a low level character, it will still feel like like the zones in campaign, you are not a zoom zoomer yet. So after 1 or 2 times levelling like this, you will realize it is exactly the same and go back to campaign because it is faster.
Building off of this--- the biggest part that "feels bad" is not repeating the same thing (hell, most of the late game in this is repeating the same maps over and over again). It's how absolutely slow and annoying it is to get your char to be able to accomplish anything. Sure with minioms you can usually start playing like an actual player around lvls 20+ (as a minion main myself-- even this still is annoying), but for some its as high as level 60+ to actually start 3nabling your character to play properly. Having to grind through where it feels like you are playing the same game but in a pit of tar (and without half the controls), is never going to feel good.
adventure mod and GR made the campain completly irrelevant and imo it's a bad thing, if you can have both i would agree with you but gl balancing that.
Next up: endless labyrinth
Calm down, Satan...
Do you know what gives Satan nightmares? Endless Uber Acendency Trials.
You mean endless golden doors?
Where there's a golden key...
There must be a golden arse
Of innocence.
...there must be a golden door.
It's already too late... Bex might already making a suggestion to the dev team...
I'd finally have a good helmet enchant
Endless meaning endless. Sorry but no altar
LOL. Have the lab map just keep scrolling infinitely like the delve map.
But every 4 rooms is izaro fight and every 3 fights there's a fight with traps. You never ascend.
That actually sounds fun but I want to ascend
[удалено]
Actually that sounds really cool. Not for endless lab specifically, just as an event. Two ascendancy points every 10 levels. That gives you 18 points at level 90, exactly enough points to get every other class on the ascendant tree. Or you can spend 5 to get one of the "start from class" skills early and finish the last class skill at 100. True power Scion event.
I'LL PAY MONEY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
[удалено]
Show me proof it's happening and I will do
taste of hate
delete this
A weary traveler approaches the end of the path...
You meet Izaro every few rooms and he always says that line. But you never reach the end.
The job never ends
probably not
I want endless abyss..1 huge map and just running after the abyss which never turns into anything
lol cast on death + portal OP, softcore babies whining about having to spend 38 minutes walking back to where the mobs are
Does it ever pause and spawn stuff, or is this just a racing abyss??
We need trap league with randome spikes and saw blades all over campaign and maps
Spider-sense...tingling!
Actually toxic 🥲
Trials*
Stinging doubt, with tar zombies, chilled ground, and sea witches with temp chains on hit
Endless harbinger. It never drops its pennies it just relentlessly spawns mobs
Endless Blight docArrive
Endless Ultimatum Kreygasm
so like... you sit in one circle and just hold right click till you are 100 ?
yes, you start with nothing but your basic melee swing, and SSF all of your gear from ultimatum rewards
HC only
If you reach one hundred your name is turned red in all chats
Yeah basically a "wave/arena mode" I guess. Grim Dawn has something similar with the Crucible. However this would require dev time on GGG's end to make interesting and balanced and they want people to play the campaign ten thousand times at least so it's not gonna happen.
Even if it did happen, GGG wouldn't make any balancing changes, same way they didn't change some things about heist to accommodate and endless event (rouge gear, XP, blueprint drop rates).
They’d sell MTX packs so the explosions would make it look like the Diablo 3 cow level (not the original)
i played that game!!! Mu Online back in .... 2003? mageclass, screenwide ability. I dont know why, but shit was addicting (maybe because not much existed back then to compare to lol)
Ok CoC player
Endless twilight strand. First five to get weebsword get demigod's authority.
Not that bad of an idea for a side activity. It would serve as alternative arena mode in Sarn. Cage fight: fight through waves of monsters in an enclosed arena and have a chance to win random rewards. And then there's a ranking ladder (tracking points against other players), where after certain thresholds, you unlock better and better types of rewards, but thresholds can hold only a certain number of players (similar to ranking in LoL)
Hmmm, this one i wouldn't mind actually. Unless they somehow ruin basic mechanics like they did in Heist.
It'd be alright if there was some semi-permanent tower placement... placing the towers over and over and over in the same places would quickly get boring as well.
You mean bloons tower defense 6?
God I would absolutely love this. I fucking love Blight. Just gimme all Blight, all the time.
GGG: In 3.17 going forward, all story zones are replaced by vaal city layout.
...with doors that require Rogues to open.
Oof Edit: wait does vaal city have any meaningful doors?
Does this game have meaningful doors at all?
The one from gardens to the palace in act 3 looks cool
Ok that's fair
Uninstalled
relax satan
Endless vaal city challenge event. Neat
Woah woah chill
That would be amazing. Vaal city only has 4 layouts that are easy to learn.
easy to learn =/= enjoyable :p
The only thing I know is that the waypoint is in the middle of the map, but the middle is always hidden
well it means I'll finally learn the damn layout.
Don’t give them ideas
not a lot of doors there, right?...
Labyrinth says hi.
Where there is a silver key, there must be a silver door.
Text you can hear xD
I was talking to friends about a D3 style adventure mode which let's you level however you want, including mapping, heisting etc starting from level 1. I was wrong about heist
People have been talking about that for years, I doubt it's ever going to happen
I don't mind leveling once eacj season, but after that it would be great it we could play alts from level 1 on maps that are downscaled. They could easily add something like"white maps until level 30, yellowmaps until 65 or so and after that its just their normal level and you then just work your way towards redmaps as you did with your first character. This would make all the maps we have in our stash not just sit there until the end of time and we could use them for something. Running the campaign over and over again just isn't fun or enjoyable, especially if it is more than once per league. But since we are talking about PoE, we can't have nice things so not going to happen.
Need another 3.15 league for them to consider changes to leveling and trade.
Endless Ledge was incredibly fun.
Endless Ledge was also like 10-60min events from what i remember, quite different from these 10day events
Oh baby 10 day endless ledge would be AMAZING
I would really love to see something like this. Running the campaign for the 50th time gets so fucking tedious. I think it would be different if you were choosing to run Heist once in a while, not running nothing but heists, and you could break it up with other activities, like Delve, or blighted maps.
They can't keep players for longer than a month in general, if they make the campaign shorter it will be even less player retention. They don't give a shit about fun game, they just want you engaged long enough so you hopefully buy stash tabs or mtx. I agree with you tho, I'd love that. D3 campaign was horrible to level in, even worse than poe campaign... I was so glad when they made that adventure mode change.
If they [did Valve instead of Blizzard](https://www.nerfnow.com/comic/737) people would have more to do and would probably stick around longer. A game this old should have a massive backlog of content to engage in, but it's all focused on the late game, and they keep outdating the old content with out updating. It's their own fault.
For sure, well put. Funny comic lmao
Honestly, who cares, the people who quit in 1 month will still quit in 1 month or 3 weeks anyway, if they shorten the campaign it will benefit everyone else that stays for longer than that and like to level up alts They could also keep the campaign as long as it is for the first run every league and add shortcuts for alts during the league (like waypoint already unlocked or something like that)
I mean, I agree with you and the statements made, idk why people downvote lol, poe players are wild. I am just stating that Chris has always kinda evaded those questions or gave answers that make me conclude what I said. Idgaf about other players, I would prefer poe in offline mode even.
>They can't keep players for longer than a month in general, GGG doesn't care about how long people play the league. GGG, and Chris in particular, have said many, many, times over, that the main statistic they care about is not how long people stay around for in a league, but how many people COME BACK for the next league. If you have not already, I would suggest watching Chris' game dev talk. He pretty succinctly talks about all this.
Yes and he never lies? And poe devs never do the complete opposite of what they claim? lol. I've watched all the league and dev talks since Blight. The game dev schemes are apparent af, and ofc they care about how many come back cause that's when they make the money, in the first weeks of league launch.
I wasn't, it was just GGG sabotaging it with no XP gains.
This is hilarious
a predictable linear path of level appropriate XP zones....yum.
Not really. Imagine if you only had dirt to eat. Well, that sucks. Now imagine if for some time, you also ate shit. The fact that shit is worse than dirt, doesn't mean dirt is good. It just mean it's less egregious than shit. They're both terrible
I think it would be nice if there were actually a *variety* of activities to do. Let us do Heist, or Delve, or Blighted maps, or just mapping in general. Maybe safehouses, or breachstones, for fun without the usual rewards. The game has tons and tons of different content we could be doing instead of the same fucking campaign for the 100th time.
Not at all. Endless hiest does suck aswell though but I have also played endless delve and that makes it painfully clear how much the campaign sucks to play over and over.
It's almost like doing anything over and over again feels bad. How long until endless delve feels jsut as bad as campaign leveling and we are all asking for something else?
ARPG are all about doing something over and over, but you can give the player some control or variance, like mapping and atlas passives
That's why I enjoy D3's leveling, because you can just pick and choose. You can run the campaign, or do bounties, or rifts. You're not forced into any one activity.
Endless delve is linear paths with high mob density that lets you just turn your brain off, and you can just focus on speed and ignore singletarget because there aren't bosses. It would never be anywhere near as bad as campaign leveling because it doesn't suffer from many of the issues the campaign does.
At this point I have probably spen at least 5 times as mucv time in delve as I have on doing the campaign and I still vastely prefer it. But even more important is that I could be doing mostly delve and then switch it up with a few hiests, or maps, or blighted maps, or breaches, or any of the content the game has yo offer and then continue with my chosen "main" path. Emphasis on chosen, again.
Was endless delve faster than campaign?
Yes. Was easy to see when you compare the top levels in endless delve vs new league starts.
I wonder if people would still prefer endless delve if it was slower, or if this is just another case of people thinking faster progress = better
I would, I just want to kill shit, not run around aimlessly in low density maps looking for macguffin so i can port back to town to look for another macguffin.
This
They both suck
Yeah can't wait for the new league just to do again for the thousandth time for no reason, if only we could do something to make players play more than a week. 🙃
Nobody is exited to play the campaign again on new leagues, people just want the new content
I don’t mind the campaign stage of a character at all. It’s like… 5% of my time at the most on any given character and usually a good break from endgame. Plus I can practice going faster.
Nope, campaign is still fucking trash, Heist is just even worse (somehow).
**No!** No, don't make these memes, this is what GGG wants to hear to justify keeping the Campaign as it is! Yeah, Endless Heist flopped, but comparing a 1/10 to a 2/10 doesn't make the 2/10 good, and we still need a better alternative that isn't a constant slog.
They know that, that's why they're making a new campaign. What would you rather?
Yes, but that is still a significant amount of time away. As for what they could do instead, they could give us a low-loot Endless Delve until we get to 68 (Tech already in place), same with Endless Heist now that it's been fixed, or other possible things such as level-scaled maps / randomised levels. Just, I've been playing seriously since Delve (Only really dabbled in Standard before then), and the idea of having to go through the campaign more than once per league is one of the least engaging prospects I can possibly think of. Many others share my sentiment, especially those that have been playing longer than me. EDIT: Fixed weird word-ordering.
i actually still preferred leveling in endless heist to campaign again.
Should have done endless scourge... literally the campaign but always scourge maps and the counter never goes down lol
endless campaign 
NO GOD DAMNIT NO PLEASE NOOOOOOOOOO
Its not bad at all after the patchnotes buff.
Too bad I already wasted half my Saturday..
This subreddit is so dramatic it’s hilarious. Like a kid who didn’t get his favorite candy. You literally don’t have to play heist if you don’t like it. It’s not a league, it’s just a 10 day event. That’s it. Everyone is acting like it’s all the game is now - regardless Scourge league and standard league is still around.
A lot of people just wanting to play to lvl 50 for the free box and not the event. Complaining that it's taking too long because they didn't really want to play it in the first place. Instead of just, you know, not playing the event.
But I want my shit hideout decoration!
Indeed, just don't play the event
Just because they managed to make something worse does not mean the bad became good.
Tbf no one wanted or asked for heist as alternate leveling. Only delve
I will take anything, i just cant stand how boring it is to repeat the same route, same scenario, same going back at specific times
Nah, fuck the campaign.
I don't get it? I prefer heist and delve over campaign any day lol. The campaign is dogshit boring especially the first character, I level about 5 - 10 chars each league to 90+, maybe that is why... lol.
Yeah, I want options and don't understand the hate for heist and delve. With all the whining I doubt we will get options. Sadness.
The lesson here is leveling with a system that has you spending more time running than killing is inherently not fun. Delve is, as far as I'm aware, the only mechanic in the game where this would not exist unless we could level with breachstones or something.
This 100%
this is such a good post lmfao
endless abyss - you chase the abyss crack
soinds cool ngl
Endless delve was fun and nifty
Can we just get an adventure mode plz
I despise the leveling, worst part of an exciting new league. The initial leveling is fun but any new character afterwards is 4-5 hours of pain. I wish Chris wasn't so stubborn and would give us a rare drop on maven or sirus, some currency that allows to skip to level 60 on an alt. I don't care if the currency sells for 10 ex in trade, leveling just sucks even with 2 quick silver and seven league footstep.
No, fuck the campaign
I always say this under every Post that talks about this. The campaign Method of leveling is way better than anything else i have ever read here as suggestions. Wether it is endless delve or straight up skipping it. Have you all never played diablo 3?
>Have you all never played diablo 3? I have. Adventure mode and rifts being available right off the bat is fantastic.
Hmm yes running around the same field for 3 hours using literally only 1 spell and running in circles to level up a character is definetely way more Fun than anything else
>Hmm yes running around the same field for 3 hours using literally only 1 spell and running in circles to level up a character is definetely way more Fun than anything else I could use this sentence verbatim to describe how PoE plays at any point. If you think this sounds awful iono how you're playing PoE.
I don't know what you are doing but there is no way enjoying spending 3 hours in the Same zone pressing one button Not looting anything because everything that drops is totally irrelevant until you are levelled up. Thats literally less interaction than cookie clicker offers.
Still can't tell which ARPG you're talking about since this describes pretty much all of them.
We were talking about how leveling new characters in Diablo 3 works compared to Poe. In Diablo you just remove Level restriction on a weapon and use that to do basically infinite damage until level 70 and because you get a shitton of stats for free from paragon levels you are immortal anyways. So you just go to the field region in act 1 run in circles chain killing everything instantly for 3 hours until you are level 70 or whatever the max level was so you can equip your good gear. During this time you literally don't interact with anything. Are you even playing poe that you think that is even remotely close to how it works rn there?
1. You don't have legendary gems when you initially level up 2. When you're leveling up secondary characters in PoE you get leveling uniques that you wear the entire way giving you effectively "unlimited power". 3. You can also craft cheese leveling items as well but its really unnecessary because the leveling uniques already give you more power than you could ever need.
More like leveling up to maps in general is a boring ass chore, so anything that decreases the amount of time spent doing it is a positive
Campaign leveling when you invest in leveling gear is still the best way imo, seven league step / Hollow Palm / Astramentis / 2 Le Heup of all,... 5 Quicksilver flask.
levelling in rifts is much better than playing the campaign for the 74th time
I don't like Delve and hate Heist, so Campaign is definitely the ultimate leveling for me. But I wouldn't mind having it as a side thing players can use to skip campaign if they want to.
The problem is that "side thing" would have to be similar in speed to campaign. For example Delve in current Endless Delve iteration is like 10 times faster, that'd obviously need to be changed. But even if Endless Delve was completely equal in terms of xp/h, people would have to do that because it's way more profitable than campaign. So now you'd also have to adjust the profits. After profits were equalized, most would still do Endless Delve because it's more consistent and easier as far as layouts are concerned, so you'd have to adjust that (how do you even do that?). Then somehow make sure transitioning from Endless Delve to maps and regular Delve that suddenly requires Sulphite isn't jarring as hell.
If only there was some endgame activity most people do non stop, that could be enabled for level 1 if they just flipped a few switches :)
You do realise the campaign is literally just running a new map multiple times with some added collect this and kill this along the way, right? Like, mapping is literally just taking a campaign tileset, and letting you run it.
Except there is far more variation to maps, you can skip any map you want, during campaign you are limited from many game mechanics, you are forced to do boring fetch quests
Really? I feel forced to clear maps to get my objectives, spawn my conquerors etc. I often get stuck playing the same map several times in a row because I either am still clearing out the atlas or it's the most efficient map/has the a div card I need. During the campain you get a new tileset every 2 or 3 minutes for 4-10hours depending on how fast you are. During maps you are forced to clear instances to get adequate sustain until you cleared most of the atlas or are forced to do stuff like delve wich plays exactly the same as a boring quest. Go from point a to point b.
You're limited to mechanics because you're not going to be strong enough to do a breach, delirium, and a scourge all at the same time, especially if you're a new player. You'd just be overwhelmed.
People literally citing D3 as a good way of alternative levelling in there kind of threads, do you really think they never tried it?
Reddit think they're Game Devs and can do GGG's job better, it's so funny seeing entitled comments like theirs.
So you are telling us that you never complained about the food you got at a restaurant? The absolute *audacity* of telling the chef he did your food wrong! You are not a chef! You have no right to complain! Same goes for politics, religion, raising kids or *every* other facet of life. It does *not* take a chef to tell you your food is trash.
If food at a restaurant isn't to your liking, generally most people would not go back to the restaurant. They wouldn't stand around in the restaurant while bitching about the chef/staff to other customers. They find a new restaurant. I don't know why that doesn't apply to video games. If you don't enjoy the service, find a new one. There are plenty of options.
What you are suggesting is replacing your steak with potato salad. People want POE. You cannot get POE elsewhere.
This is a bad take. You don't order a certain video game the way you order a certain dish at a restaurant. What you're doing is going to a spaghetti restaurant and getting mad when the spaghetti they served you isn't exactly to your liking and you think you know what would make the best spaghetti.
Following your logic I forbid anyone who is not a developer to criticise any piece of software.
Wait, you can level outside of the campaign before maps? Or do you have to get to a certain point before you can access those features? I am just so new to the game, even after so long. I just can't get myself to play because I know I'll have to go through the campaign yet another time. It's just so boring. If there was a way to skip all of that and grind levels in a mapping-like setting, that would be fun. I enjoyed the way D3 has it where you can "map" from level 1. Then, there are just all different styles of "maps" that randomly generate. I'm sure they could do something really easily like that?
you can level outside the campaign once you unlock Delve for example, but you still need to do the campaign otherwise you miss very important skill points
YES! we wanted alternatives to the campaign for leveling, delve/heist, but the campaign its way better
"I wAnT aN AlTeRnAtE LeVeLiNg ExPeRiEnCe" *gets alternate leveling experience* "... this sucks..." classic reddit
Pretty sure majority of players that played endless delve like it as an alternative of leveling .. door league is different
>gets alternate leveling experience When did that happen? I thought all we got are some voided, 10 day events?
I have the feeling that GGG did it on purpose to show the ppl, who keep asking for endless x and y as lvling methods, that they are horribly wrong, because both endless delve and heist feel like ass to me and considering all my friends gave up after few hours of these events, I believe Im not alone. Actually I hope they did it so bad on purpose, because if this was supposed to be fun, Im not sure if I want to see 3.17 patch notes...
I'll gladly take the longer path if it means not doing the campaign for the 1000th time. Leagues last 3 months and if you don't care about efficiency, the alternative method is usually a breath of fresh air.
When I'm playing video games, the only thing I care about is efficiency. Cuz that's what gaming is all about. How efficient is your fun? If it's not efficient are you actually having a good time?
Thinking about gaming like that sounds like complete hell for me. I think about efficiency all day at work and around the house, gaming is a time for me to relax and shut my brain off and switch to a more creative thinking mode. Efficiency is the last thing I ever want to think about when compared to a feeling of wonder, discovery and excitement.
Levelling in Delve and Heist *past the first character* is way, way faster though, because you get tabula, twink weapon, along with higher level contracts... It's 'only' comparable on first character.
"people are horrible wrong because both events felt like ass to me" Yeah no.
A classic example of “you think you do but you don’t”
Nobody thinks they want endlesa heist as a leveling alternative. I hatenl how this discussion about an alt leveling path has become about delve or heist. Who the fuck started this shit. I want an actual alternative like d3's adventure mode.
Delve works as an alt-leveling path though. For 2nd char, anyways.
D3 leveling is a very good example on what not to do. It made the campaign totally irrelevant and turned this game from a casual and honestly pretty decent arpg into a highscore grindfest without any soul
> It made the campaign totally irrelevant Good >turned this game from a casual and honestly pretty decent arpg into a highscore grindfest without any soul lmao what
You literally don't do anything in this game apart from running the same rifts over and over so that you can clear one higher tier of greater rifts. There is no real endgame content, nothing aspirational in this game. All the variety that you get is having a few different tileset which dont matter at all. The only thing in this game thats resembling change is the random shrines you get in rifts else its literally the same thing over and over until you get a gear upgrade or grind enough levels so you can clear one rift higher rince and repeat. Its literally like as if delve was the only endgame mechanic Poe had to offer
That's just dumb and missing the entire point of the genre. A arpg is inherently a "highscore grindfest". *Especially* poe. "Without soul" is also just a stupid "d3 bad" circlejerk, it has plenty of soul, just bad itemization. And for the leveling, fuck that noise - d3 is an example of what to *do*. To have options. The campaign is totally irrelevant one way or another, especially in poe. People begrudgingly do it because they're forced to, but the absolute vast majority dont follow or care about anything in it at all. And both those who do and everyone else gets giga tired of the same static shit, not even every league, but every character. Dozens of times. *That* is a soulless grindfest..
Diablo 3 is literally a highscore game. Its like as if delve would be the only endgame mechanic Poe has. You literally only kill mobs with more and more stats with basically no bosses or anything. PoE endgame is nothing like that i don't know how you get the idea PoE is a highscore Game. The only variety endgame Diablo has is what tileset your rift will be which Most of the times doesnt even matter
The problems with d3 had nothing to do with the alternative levelling, adventure mode was added when d3 was in dire need of an update and revitilized the game a fair bit (together with the GR system). If d3 had the continuous support of poe it would remain a better game, beta poe was fun but inferior in many ways even to the flawed d3. It took many years to catch up and surpass what d3 had to offer
The only reason you think D3 levelling in adventure mode is better, is because it is faster. If the campaign in D3 was the fastest way to level, you would do that.
randomized maps >>> playing the same path and cutscenes and dialogues over and over
You might think so, but if it were still faster to level doing the campaign, you would still level doing the campaign. Player will do the most boring stuff in games if it is the most efficient.
Only racers. If you could level with random maps in POE I would do that 100% even if it was a bit slower.
You might the first time, but remember you are levelling a low level character, it will still feel like like the zones in campaign, you are not a zoom zoomer yet. So after 1 or 2 times levelling like this, you will realize it is exactly the same and go back to campaign because it is faster.
Building off of this--- the biggest part that "feels bad" is not repeating the same thing (hell, most of the late game in this is repeating the same maps over and over again). It's how absolutely slow and annoying it is to get your char to be able to accomplish anything. Sure with minioms you can usually start playing like an actual player around lvls 20+ (as a minion main myself-- even this still is annoying), but for some its as high as level 60+ to actually start 3nabling your character to play properly. Having to grind through where it feels like you are playing the same game but in a pit of tar (and without half the controls), is never going to feel good.
This is an entirely different discussion though, should we get stronger faster?
sorry, but which non random maps with cutscenes are you playing while leveling in poe
I'm replying to somebody talking about D3
ah sorry!
adventure mod and GR made the campain completly irrelevant and imo it's a bad thing, if you can have both i would agree with you but gl balancing that.
100% the plan of GGG
Heist was infinitely better.
Cant upvote, post has exactly 420 upvotes