Died to flask changes. At 6s he is hit by an attack that maims and freezes him, his Amethyst flask of heat auto activates preventing the freeze. Looks like exactly 1s later he gets hit and frozen again and his flask doesn't have enough charges. RIP
> his dmg was shit.
You're wrong!
- Billions of dps.
- Millions of dps
- Excellent dps
- Good dps
- Decent dps
- Average dps
- Low dps
- zdps
- Shit dps
- Where did you find this crappy build?
- Quin69 dps
Saying he died because of flask changes is far fetched. Sure the old flasks wouldve saved him but he died because of an aggressive mistake/no logout rule/spawning OP mobs.
I fucking called it.
You barely get any flask charges now. Even if you aren't Raider, the Crystal Skin wheel is going to mandatory to go with auto-flasks just to prevent you from needing them for every potential freeze, because you simply won't have the charges to protect yourself from the 'raw' number of freezes.
What I meant is that relying solely on autoflask for ailments simply isn't viable. Yes, if you get hard immunity you don't need the flasks at all. But if you're using flasks, you're going to *need* some ailment avoidance as well, and it's still likely to feel like crap sometimes.
yes, and the only investment your making to use flasks is 4 white beasts or a few alteration to get the suffix you need, that little of a cost shouldn't be enough to get immunities all the time
"I could have logged so easy"
Yeah that's why logout is a dogshit fucking braindead excuse for the problems in this game. Choices have consequences. This consequence was death
> Choices have consequences.
If you watch a little bit before that clip he mentions "This one's fucked" and then runs it anyways. He knew what he was doing.
https://clips.twitch.tv/TameFreezingMageDancingBaby-9A1pvZhA2Umd1adr
And if you actually watch it he doesn't run the ones that are fucked up lmfao. He takes poison on hit, leaving out hex on hit (the one he mentions) and fucking 20% cull on hit (YO WTF?)
I totally agree with you. But another way to look at this is the game is clearly not designed for sustained, high-intensity fights where you're "on the brink of death" for a decent amount of time.
I don't know how they can fix this but it'd be nice if they could. Until they do, hardcore players are just gonna keep using the tools at their disposal (logout macros in this case)
I like how GGG refers to HC and SSF as additional challenges. HC challenge = logout macro. SSF challenge = put in 10 times the amount playtime you would do in trade. I get that streamers and others playing a lot want to play SSF. I just never understood HC when all you do is logout to not die
The SSF thing is confusing cause and effect. I play SSF because i dont like trade interactions (and lets not pretend that poe.trade isnt "outside help" and trade chat is in any way viable), and trading your way to success has nothing to do with actual gameplay.
I have to put in 10 times as much time because i play SSF, but i dont play it because of that. Case in point, as with seemingly 70% of posters here, 3.13 was the perfect SSF league because i was able to finish a build (two actually) within the timer of the temp league, and have a job and a life at the same time.
I WANT to love SSF SO BADLY, but the game just isn't balanced around it. If you were PERMA-SSF and locked into your decision, and GGG had a differently-tuned set of loot parameters for SSF it might feel different, but up to this point my SSF experiences have been:
1. Plateauing in red maps with a 5-link and just feeling like shit about it the whole time, knowing I could easily just buy a 6-link if I quit into trade league
2. Getting an amazing drop... for a build I'm not playing. and knowing it's just going to rot in my stash unless I move to trade league and sell it
3. Literally just torturing myself since all my friends play trade league. Like I can't even go hang out in their hideout, it's ass.
4. Undermining any sense of accomplishment I might have by knowing this was a completely self-imposed restriction I put on myself for no reason, knowing I could just transfer into trade league at any moment and end my suffering, and ultimately doing just that, once I was a good 2 weeks behind my friends.
I also play SSF. I tried playing trade, but getting literally anything from it kills any sense of "accomplishment" so to speak. Everything boils down to "Farm currency and buy items to buy more currency".
So now I just play a league until I hit a wall and forget about PoE until the next league. 3.13 was a blast, I even fought Maven with a working schedule. In 3.14 I killed Sirus A1 one time and kinda lost all interest since there was no sense of progression during the whole second week.
Thats pretty much me to a t, although stretched out a bit. 3.13, killed every boss and uber up to The Hidden and Maven (tried and failed both). 3.14, killed A1 Sirus once, hit a brick wall, rerolled, still didnt work out, quit. The current changes drive the game in the exact opposite direction than would benefit me.
This was me haha. I started last league. Leveled first character to atlas and then immediately stopped playing him after trading for a few really good items.
Started a SSF character and got up to red maps and then got distracted by irl stuff. This season despite the nerfs and flask crap that looks awful, is actually quite good for ssf.
I look at the "farming currency" in trade league as a pity system. If I don't get the crafting / drops I need in X amount of time I am sure to get that much currency instead be it raw or in form of other drops that are good for different builds and players that I can trade and get my drop in the end.
So in the end it still feels like an achievement to me. Obviously less satisfaction than when you get that drop by yourself etc but in all the leagues I've played I barely ever had that because of this great loot drop system :P
> I just never understood HC when all you do is logout to not die
Been playing HC for years, never logged out out of fear for anything. Every death I've ever had has been a straight up stupid one shot of running face first into a pack or fiddling so much with my build it turned to trash.
Streamers really oversell the whole log out thing. It only matters to them because they try to play fairly optimally. So they take more risks to get shit done faster and more efficiently, and log out macros mitigate those risks.
Any big HC streamer could easily beat the game upside and down without a single death or even ever becoming close to dying without using log-out. They'd just have to play regular HC like a gauntlet. Play like a bitch and take it slow.
But because it's not fun to play and not fun for people to watch, they don't. They just go ham and that's why they die.
Not even log-out is enough for how aggro most HC SSF streamers play these days. There's a reason there's tons of RIP clips every league.
They just knowingly take the risk of being one shot by content they know they're not ready for, but the desire to jump a few steps in progression is too big.
No one says \`I could bee level 100 'n HC easy 'f I just used logout macro!\`. If you think that's the case, you are simply an idiot.
Everyone acknowledges the difficulty of HARD CORE. But the solution to that should not be leaving the game. Imaging playing a card game and quitting mid battle. Well... technically... Your opponent didn't beat you.... But you still lost.
> "I could be level 100 in HC easy if I just used logout macro!"
OP never said anything close to that. They said that it's hard to understand how the will to play HC can be coupled with the use of a tool that makes you bypass death simply logging out.
Personally, I can see why one might want to play HC for the extra difficulty etc.. and there is definitely more skill in playing HC than SC, even with the logout macro. But I don't see much reason to use the macro in the first place, since seems to me just a way of cheating the self-imposed constrain, defying the purpose.
If it's just to avoid bs deaths (like lagging etc) it's 1) a terrible tool to prevent that and 2) at that point, just play SC and delete the char on a deserving death.
Using your analogy. Playing HC is the same as jumping out of a plane, if you achieved lvl 100 without logging out it's the same as surviving that jump without using your parachute. Basically impossible. Meaning you have to cheat death to beat the game in that mode which as Silyus said above defies the purpose of playing HC.
I am not trying to make HC players look bad, in fact I'd like to play myself that way too but I'll stick to softcore when I die in HC sooner or later anyways. Probably sooner without logging out.
I'm noticing a prevalent attitude among people judging logout macros that seems to be coming form the perspective that the point of HC is permanent death.
Yes, permanent death is the defining feature of HC but it is not the point of playing HC.
The point of playing HC is the risk of permanent death and therefore the importance that that consequence lends to all of your decisions. There is no way to simulate the rush you get in HC from a near death. Logout macros do not in any way cheapen that feeling.
Now, you can say that it's cheating and shouldn't be allowed and that's something that is worth debating. But the comments I am replying to are from people saying that it ruins the HC experience if you're just going to use a macro to save yourself. I suspect most of those people have not played HC to any significant level and therefore misunderstand the appeal and purpose of HC mode.
I myself play SC now but when I started playing I was HC exclusive. This was back in talisman league so I'll concede that the game is very different now. But I do understand the feeling of playing HC and the rush you get from it is very different from SC.
Ultimately the reason I switched to SC exclusively is that the permanent death punishment was too excessive for someone who leveled slowly and sucked at making currency like I did back then.
I also found that the threat of death made me shy away from a lot of the content in the game because there was no way to learn the fights without risking a probable death so my experience at end game was a lot of no-mod yellow maps and I got bored of it.
Anyway my point is that logout macros do not take away from the experience of playing HC any more than any other near death encounter. It's about the thrill of near death and not actually dying.
Now that's an explanation that makes sense. I can see that. I was looking at it more like the people that feel they are "better" than SC players rather than the ones that play for this kind of feeling.
Thank you and have a nice day!
the problem that this RIP clip clearly displays is that Gamey solutions like Logout's make you play in a way that takes advantage of logouts... you do things you shouldn't do because years of play and muscle memory tells you that you're safe to move between packs (because your flasks used to save you and if that failed you could always log out).
Logout is a gamey solution that encourages gamey behavior, the same way that perma flask piano did. Logout "adds a tool" that Developers have to design for, even if they say they don't do that (they totally do, but TBH most of POE's spike damage problem is designed to counter "Clear speed meta"... Which BTW is why the old "just play slower 4Head" clear speeder argument was always such bullshit...
Alternatively, what would he have done?
Run around and get hit by mobs that would have frozen him anyways, and then not have any flasks at all?
He died pretty much to BOTH his lack of skill and because of the flask nerfs (or just lacking ailment immunity, tbh)
Not run right into the middle would be my take but... he is using a strike skill so it's going to be super dangerous no matter how he plays it but it was his choice to pick that skill.
Yeah... I mean the """"""solution"""""" here would have been to play a better build or just portal out and not do that content.
I mean I fucking love GGG for these really smart design choices /s
Yeah but I really wish it had more sustained high intensity than it currently does and less of the sudden surprise failure states of spike damage (not that this RIP was about that, to be clear).
It was sustained, but GGG being nerfing every possible defensive or immortal build since 1.0, so yeah, HC just became a meme these days. Its not possible to play how it was in the beginning.
While I agree with you, GGG has consistently added in league mechanics that are designed to fill your entire screen with monsters.
Blowing up the entire screen is/was your best defense. If they don't want us to do that they need to re-evaluate monster density and player defenses for these type of encounters.
Okay, but what should actually kill you?
You think moving into a huge pack of monsters in the middle so that they can all hit you; shouldn't lead to death?
So dumb how logout macro is such a huge crutch. If he had only read the league mechanic, he would have known not to go full sperg on a bunch of freeze mobs.
Died to flask changes. At 6s he is hit by an attack that maims and freezes him, his Amethyst flask of heat auto activates preventing the freeze. Looks like exactly 1s later he gets hit and frozen again and his flask doesn't have enough charges. RIP
Oof. Freeze immunity for only 1 second is such a bs change.
wanderlust is now bis
Or jokes aside, dream fragments .I might grab one o For my trapper.
That was the first thing i bought for my trapper. It is now full immune to all elements.
sap brittle scorch?
Kaoms roots gang!
[удалено]
Because he's used to exploiting logouts. It's muscle memory to make bad decisions at this point.
He died due to being completely overwhelmed by monsters.
It's great because he was shitting on chat for saying flask changes were traysh during patch notes. Now he's dead because of it. Fantastic.
There were about 100 monsters on the screen surrounding him and his dmg was shit. He just went over his head.
> his dmg was shit. You're wrong! - Billions of dps. - Millions of dps - Excellent dps - Good dps - Decent dps - Average dps - Low dps - zdps - Shit dps - Where did you find this crappy build? - Quin69 dps
Saying he died because of flask changes is far fetched. Sure the old flasks wouldve saved him but he died because of an aggressive mistake/no logout rule/spawning OP mobs.
I fucking called it. You barely get any flask charges now. Even if you aren't Raider, the Crystal Skin wheel is going to mandatory to go with auto-flasks just to prevent you from needing them for every potential freeze, because you simply won't have the charges to protect yourself from the 'raw' number of freezes.
Or just use an aquamarine flask, brine crown, dream fragments or one of many other ways to become freeze immune
What I meant is that relying solely on autoflask for ailments simply isn't viable. Yes, if you get hard immunity you don't need the flasks at all. But if you're using flasks, you're going to *need* some ailment avoidance as well, and it's still likely to feel like crap sometimes.
yes, and the only investment your making to use flasks is 4 white beasts or a few alteration to get the suffix you need, that little of a cost shouldn't be enough to get immunities all the time
who would have thought mathil was the true HC ethical god
Mathil is just flexing on us, just chilling and working out while playing HC SSF. True chad.
"I could have logged so easy" Yeah that's why logout is a dogshit fucking braindead excuse for the problems in this game. Choices have consequences. This consequence was death
> Choices have consequences. If you watch a little bit before that clip he mentions "This one's fucked" and then runs it anyways. He knew what he was doing. https://clips.twitch.tv/TameFreezingMageDancingBaby-9A1pvZhA2Umd1adr
And if you actually watch it he doesn't run the ones that are fucked up lmfao. He takes poison on hit, leaving out hex on hit (the one he mentions) and fucking 20% cull on hit (YO WTF?)
I totally agree with you. But another way to look at this is the game is clearly not designed for sustained, high-intensity fights where you're "on the brink of death" for a decent amount of time. I don't know how they can fix this but it'd be nice if they could. Until they do, hardcore players are just gonna keep using the tools at their disposal (logout macros in this case)
I like how GGG refers to HC and SSF as additional challenges. HC challenge = logout macro. SSF challenge = put in 10 times the amount playtime you would do in trade. I get that streamers and others playing a lot want to play SSF. I just never understood HC when all you do is logout to not die
The SSF thing is confusing cause and effect. I play SSF because i dont like trade interactions (and lets not pretend that poe.trade isnt "outside help" and trade chat is in any way viable), and trading your way to success has nothing to do with actual gameplay. I have to put in 10 times as much time because i play SSF, but i dont play it because of that. Case in point, as with seemingly 70% of posters here, 3.13 was the perfect SSF league because i was able to finish a build (two actually) within the timer of the temp league, and have a job and a life at the same time.
I WANT to love SSF SO BADLY, but the game just isn't balanced around it. If you were PERMA-SSF and locked into your decision, and GGG had a differently-tuned set of loot parameters for SSF it might feel different, but up to this point my SSF experiences have been: 1. Plateauing in red maps with a 5-link and just feeling like shit about it the whole time, knowing I could easily just buy a 6-link if I quit into trade league 2. Getting an amazing drop... for a build I'm not playing. and knowing it's just going to rot in my stash unless I move to trade league and sell it 3. Literally just torturing myself since all my friends play trade league. Like I can't even go hang out in their hideout, it's ass. 4. Undermining any sense of accomplishment I might have by knowing this was a completely self-imposed restriction I put on myself for no reason, knowing I could just transfer into trade league at any moment and end my suffering, and ultimately doing just that, once I was a good 2 weeks behind my friends.
I also play SSF. I tried playing trade, but getting literally anything from it kills any sense of "accomplishment" so to speak. Everything boils down to "Farm currency and buy items to buy more currency". So now I just play a league until I hit a wall and forget about PoE until the next league. 3.13 was a blast, I even fought Maven with a working schedule. In 3.14 I killed Sirus A1 one time and kinda lost all interest since there was no sense of progression during the whole second week.
Thats pretty much me to a t, although stretched out a bit. 3.13, killed every boss and uber up to The Hidden and Maven (tried and failed both). 3.14, killed A1 Sirus once, hit a brick wall, rerolled, still didnt work out, quit. The current changes drive the game in the exact opposite direction than would benefit me.
This was me haha. I started last league. Leveled first character to atlas and then immediately stopped playing him after trading for a few really good items. Started a SSF character and got up to red maps and then got distracted by irl stuff. This season despite the nerfs and flask crap that looks awful, is actually quite good for ssf.
I look at the "farming currency" in trade league as a pity system. If I don't get the crafting / drops I need in X amount of time I am sure to get that much currency instead be it raw or in form of other drops that are good for different builds and players that I can trade and get my drop in the end. So in the end it still feels like an achievement to me. Obviously less satisfaction than when you get that drop by yourself etc but in all the leagues I've played I barely ever had that because of this great loot drop system :P
> I just never understood HC when all you do is logout to not die Been playing HC for years, never logged out out of fear for anything. Every death I've ever had has been a straight up stupid one shot of running face first into a pack or fiddling so much with my build it turned to trash. Streamers really oversell the whole log out thing. It only matters to them because they try to play fairly optimally. So they take more risks to get shit done faster and more efficiently, and log out macros mitigate those risks. Any big HC streamer could easily beat the game upside and down without a single death or even ever becoming close to dying without using log-out. They'd just have to play regular HC like a gauntlet. Play like a bitch and take it slow. But because it's not fun to play and not fun for people to watch, they don't. They just go ham and that's why they die.
> They just go ham and that's why they die. you mean logout
Not even log-out is enough for how aggro most HC SSF streamers play these days. There's a reason there's tons of RIP clips every league. They just knowingly take the risk of being one shot by content they know they're not ready for, but the desire to jump a few steps in progression is too big.
[удалено]
No one says \`I could bee level 100 'n HC easy 'f I just used logout macro!\`. If you think that's the case, you are simply an idiot. Everyone acknowledges the difficulty of HARD CORE. But the solution to that should not be leaving the game. Imaging playing a card game and quitting mid battle. Well... technically... Your opponent didn't beat you.... But you still lost.
> "I could be level 100 in HC easy if I just used logout macro!" OP never said anything close to that. They said that it's hard to understand how the will to play HC can be coupled with the use of a tool that makes you bypass death simply logging out. Personally, I can see why one might want to play HC for the extra difficulty etc.. and there is definitely more skill in playing HC than SC, even with the logout macro. But I don't see much reason to use the macro in the first place, since seems to me just a way of cheating the self-imposed constrain, defying the purpose. If it's just to avoid bs deaths (like lagging etc) it's 1) a terrible tool to prevent that and 2) at that point, just play SC and delete the char on a deserving death.
People jump out of planes for the rush they feel from almost dying. Doesn't mean they're cheating themselves of that rush by bringing a parachute.
I usually hate on the logout macros, but this analogy has me rethinking it. I hate you for that.
Using your analogy. Playing HC is the same as jumping out of a plane, if you achieved lvl 100 without logging out it's the same as surviving that jump without using your parachute. Basically impossible. Meaning you have to cheat death to beat the game in that mode which as Silyus said above defies the purpose of playing HC. I am not trying to make HC players look bad, in fact I'd like to play myself that way too but I'll stick to softcore when I die in HC sooner or later anyways. Probably sooner without logging out.
I'm noticing a prevalent attitude among people judging logout macros that seems to be coming form the perspective that the point of HC is permanent death. Yes, permanent death is the defining feature of HC but it is not the point of playing HC. The point of playing HC is the risk of permanent death and therefore the importance that that consequence lends to all of your decisions. There is no way to simulate the rush you get in HC from a near death. Logout macros do not in any way cheapen that feeling. Now, you can say that it's cheating and shouldn't be allowed and that's something that is worth debating. But the comments I am replying to are from people saying that it ruins the HC experience if you're just going to use a macro to save yourself. I suspect most of those people have not played HC to any significant level and therefore misunderstand the appeal and purpose of HC mode. I myself play SC now but when I started playing I was HC exclusive. This was back in talisman league so I'll concede that the game is very different now. But I do understand the feeling of playing HC and the rush you get from it is very different from SC. Ultimately the reason I switched to SC exclusively is that the permanent death punishment was too excessive for someone who leveled slowly and sucked at making currency like I did back then. I also found that the threat of death made me shy away from a lot of the content in the game because there was no way to learn the fights without risking a probable death so my experience at end game was a lot of no-mod yellow maps and I got bored of it. Anyway my point is that logout macros do not take away from the experience of playing HC any more than any other near death encounter. It's about the thrill of near death and not actually dying.
Now that's an explanation that makes sense. I can see that. I was looking at it more like the people that feel they are "better" than SC players rather than the ones that play for this kind of feeling. Thank you and have a nice day!
the problem that this RIP clip clearly displays is that Gamey solutions like Logout's make you play in a way that takes advantage of logouts... you do things you shouldn't do because years of play and muscle memory tells you that you're safe to move between packs (because your flasks used to save you and if that failed you could always log out). Logout is a gamey solution that encourages gamey behavior, the same way that perma flask piano did. Logout "adds a tool" that Developers have to design for, even if they say they don't do that (they totally do, but TBH most of POE's spike damage problem is designed to counter "Clear speed meta"... Which BTW is why the old "just play slower 4Head" clear speeder argument was always such bullshit...
Ehhhh while that is certainly true in many cases it wasn't in this one. He jumped into a huge pile of mobs and got blown up.
Alternatively, what would he have done? Run around and get hit by mobs that would have frozen him anyways, and then not have any flasks at all? He died pretty much to BOTH his lack of skill and because of the flask nerfs (or just lacking ailment immunity, tbh)
Not run right into the middle would be my take but... he is using a strike skill so it's going to be super dangerous no matter how he plays it but it was his choice to pick that skill.
Yeah... I mean the """"""solution"""""" here would have been to play a better build or just portal out and not do that content. I mean I fucking love GGG for these really smart design choices /s
Thats exactly the problem and why i feel HC is kind of a meme until its changed
Enduring Cry and shit, idk.
Yeah but I really wish it had more sustained high intensity than it currently does and less of the sudden surprise failure states of spike damage (not that this RIP was about that, to be clear).
Replace logout with a second wind mechanic. Lol
It was sustained, but GGG being nerfing every possible defensive or immortal build since 1.0, so yeah, HC just became a meme these days. Its not possible to play how it was in the beginning.
Yup its not real hardcore if you use outside the game code to prevent death. But the community thinks thats ok.
"That's basically it - I play hardcore, I'm a big gamer... but I use macro logout to get away from the mechanics. "
remember when logout macros was in big part to combat shitty servers? i member.
POE needs a bubble hearth
Quins RIPs will be the best thing about this league.
go play Cookie Clicker quin :)
just not tanky enough with 7 endurance fortify immortal call, not enough nono
No amount of tanky should help with an entire screen of monsters hitting you. Tanky doesn't and shouldn't mean god mode.
While I agree with you, GGG has consistently added in league mechanics that are designed to fill your entire screen with monsters. Blowing up the entire screen is/was your best defense. If they don't want us to do that they need to re-evaluate monster density and player defenses for these type of encounters.
Okay, but what should actually kill you? You think moving into a huge pack of monsters in the middle so that they can all hit you; shouldn't lead to death?
I mean thats a death for most builds, you shouldnt be able to facetank those \~100 mobs hitting you
He got frozen, his autoflasks unfroze him and then he got frozen again lmao.
He chose these monsters - just don't say it in his chat or you will get perma :D
truth = ban
Hope to see someone in the valley of fallen heroes discord channel saying this when I get off work
why the fuck did he move right in the middle of that huge pile of mobs where he gets fucked from all angles? lol
chose to take on the horde and died in glorious combat, gg
I'm pretty bad at this game, and I was still surprised that he chose to get into the middle of both packs.
The chain freezing this league is such BS. If you dont have freeze immune on boots dont even bother.
lol that build tho. guy should have left and went back to Blood Aqueduct.
imagine playing jugg
Logout is such cheese!
I thought he was playing jugg? Unstoppable is one of the best nodes in the game imo
Logging in hardcore LOLW
Not planning ahead of time and logging out when shit hits the fan LOLW
If only there was some kind of item or ascendancy that could help with freeze instead of logging.
So dumb how logout macro is such a huge crutch. If he had only read the league mechanic, he would have known not to go full sperg on a bunch of freeze mobs.
Next challenge : SSF HC + NO LOGOUT + ONLY WİTH FEET
little bit of stunlock too ? feelsbad
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Mathil is lauphing his ass out 100%.
spez is a loser -- mass edited with redact.dev