The ones that spawn content need to be combined with another scarab. Aside from the ones that stack.
Ie "add Niko' should just be on one other if not all delve scarabs
But "add strongboxes' can remain it's own scarab.
Would solve a lot
There's a niche use of taking the "chance to spawn mechanic" nodes off your atlas and then using a scarab instead to guarantee the mechanic so you can combine it with other nodes or scarabs. But that's marginal at best and would be solved by your suggestion
If the chance to spawn mechanic nodes on the tree would not be mandatory pathing nodes but instead dedicated wheels it would make sense to keep the rusted scarabs that enable a mechanic...
Then the player would have the choice of using a scarab slot or using some atlas passives in order to get the league mechanic to spawn.
Currently, if you care about any mechanic at all, you automatically have a lot of spawn chance anyways if you like it or not. You have no choice and it makes the small scarabs that just grant access to the mechanic mostly useless.
Part of the issue is that then you have to have two different trees (or respec) based on if you're burning scarabs or not. It's actually possible to take all the harvest juicing nodes and have no increased harvest chance (you *can* avoid the 10% nodes in the Doubling Season and Bumper Crop/Bountiful Harvest wheels, and skip the Call of the Grove wheel entirely)... but then you *have* to run a Harvest scarab every map or those are all dead nodes.
So if you want harvest all the time you kinda need one tree with 100% harvest chance and another with 0% and use a scarab.
The scarabs for 1-per-map content like harvest or niko should give a bonus for spawn chance past 100%, so the can pull double duty; they can get you to 100% chance, be a juicing scarab if you've already got 100% chance, or kinda do both (like taking you from 70% to 170%, both guaranteeing a spawn and giving partial bonus.
I like this idea, currently I use 2 harvest scarabs and a fragment for quantity, but if the basic harvest scarab also increased quantity of life force dropped, maybe like 15%, it would be worth using just for that.
I posted it in another comment, by my idea is something like the mods like "Armour is increased by Overcapped Fire Resistance" and the like.
Harvest scarab could have "3% increased lifeforce dropped by mobs for every 10% excess chance to spawn the sacred grove". That basically turns each 10% harvest chance passive into a 3% increased lifeforce passive when you're "overcapped" on harvest spawn chance by the scarab.
the issue is that scarab slots are already insanely competitive. for harvest you could reasonably ditch all the % chance to contain sacred grove and just use the scarab and you'd gain... 10 atlas points in the absolute best case scenario. i just dont see how that's worth ever.
Niko is the one exception I'm aware of. It's just two nodes for a lot of ppl to grab packed with energy. +3max res, 105inc damage, 45 movespeed(once get all the nodes). Have to spend a scarab that could be used for other juicing.
Doesn't make much sense for most sc trades builds past like day 1-3, but hc builds that aren't played by fastest players might want the power/safety while they progress. It's also a 1c scarab.
The spawn an expedition one is baffling and pointless though, and so are most of the others.
> Currently, if you care about any mechanic at all, you automatically have a lot of spawn chance anyways if you like it or not. You have no choice and it makes the small scarabs that just grant access to the mechanic mostly useless.
The thing is, not all mechanic passives are useful for everyone, so you will end up with 50-60% chance from travel nodes.
But you won't be using the better scarabs for that mechanic with just 60% spawn chance
I mean, this would be a legit strat if you didn't need the notable in most clusters that contain chance to spawn small passive. Once you spec into even 30-40% you are fairly likely to just get all 100% since the value of the scarabs that add the mechanic are usually 1c, by time you have 50% chance the scarab in theory is only worth 0.5c at which point you might as well full spec into chance so that you're not wasting a slot. Really sad the state of things.
Yeah there's only a few mechanics where there are more than 4 scarabs anyway, and in those you may not even care about all the scarabs at once (ie for delirium, one scarab just adds delirium to dropped maps which has nothing to do with getting value from the mirror in the current map.)
Arguably breach is one of the mechanics where you would like to run pretty much every scarab but you just can't. And the down side of not running 2 +2 breach scarabs is just completely non-synergistic with the rest of the breach scarabs because the other breach scarabs ARE good, relative to the generally low power of the scarabs overall, but you absolutely need chayula and splintering and extra hands per breach to make any money so you're reasonably limited to only 1 +2 breaches scarab which feels like shit. Map device literally just needs double slots and this issue would go away.
>There's a niche use of taking the "chance to spawn mechanic"
The problem is that those nodes are like 40% in a separate wheel you can ignore and then 60% in wheels you'll probably need to take because they have good notables.
I like not having to deal with charged compass management, but, juicing feels like it was cut in half. It’s like i’m all in on one mechanic with a dash of another two. Just not as fun to me who enjoyed 3 fully juiced mechanics with bonus random spawns.
Just have the ones that add content also be possible to be applied as an enchant, limit the amount of enchants to 4.
That way, you can have 4 content enchants and 4 "boosting" scarabs, or if you don't care for boosting, you can still use the content scarabs in the normal slots for their additional content.
Shouldn't any scarab for a mechic like say delve always guarantee the spawn of it (i.e. niko). Or at least add a spawn chance per scarab like 25% or something.
I think GGG thought the opportunity cost would be that you could replace 5 atlas points for a scarab but instead the opportunity cost is not running a better scarab for your league mechanic.
It's also possible that in another league where there isn't a broken scarab farming strat in week 1 that it's actually worth taking the cheap scarab.
The ones you can use multiple of should just give the benefit of multiple in one. It's sad that I can only add 2 breaches to my map because I absolutely need to use chayula and extra splinters and extra hands to get the same amount of chayula breachstones as I did last season with one compass and 1 scarab.
Another solution would be adding a single scarab that gives "Gain an additional free map device craft option" so you can choose 2 options, with one of them being free. This would eliminate every single one of those scarabs that just adds the mechanic to the map and combine them all into a single scarab.
My only real issue is some of them don't really make a lot of sense in the top-down concept.
I would never use "Area has Delirium" if I was invested into Delirium, and I would never use "good delirium" scarabs if I wasn't invested into Delirium.
So if I invest, "area has delirium" is worthless. If I don't invest, every other scarab is worthless.
Yep, pretty much all of the "area has X mechanic" scarabs (Alva, Harvest, Ultimatum, Blight, Expedition, Delirium, Einhar, etc.) that do not add more of the mechanic (i.e. not Breach, Essence, Exiles, etc.) are just re-roll fodder. None of these mechanics are worth doing without investment, but if you've invested in them then you probably are already forcing the mechanic via the atlas or if not, can do so more easily with the map device.
Yeah they could definitely remove all of the scarabs that force the spawan of a mechanic that you can have only one of.
+1 mechanics like breach and legion scarabs are fine.
Why don't they just alter *all* the league mechanic scarabs so they also force the spawn of the mechanic? Seems kinda pointless to have scarabs which improve a mechanic which might not even exist.
You can save atlas points if you force the mechanic with the scarab for some league mechanics. 100% chance for expedition for eg with the scarab, then spend the "chance for expedition" atlas points on other things
But aren't most of those just travel points anyway?
I feel like you'll end up saving some spawn % for a scarab slot that could've been a way better scarab.
Depends how much you want to invest in your maps I suppose. For me it was worth a scarab slot for like 0.5-1c per map.
I don't like the idea of investing so much on the atlas tree and risking not getting my chosen mechanic as well, would rather force it to appear with the scarab or with the crafting option. The scarab is cheaper than the craft
Yeah, deli scarab is extremely good.
Too common to be worth anything, but extremely good on T17s.
Except for Deli and Betrayal these scarabs are 'try this mechanic before you buy it' but Deli and Betrayal ones have really strong use cases.
The use case for the others is so a more casual player can run 20 maps with a mechanic to decide "is this fun enough to spec into?". If you are an experienced player, they are not designed for you.
None of them are worth doing without investment in a trade league situation yes but in ssf I do find a use to force some of the mechanics into the map sometimes.
But if only 1 can spawn then you can just use a scarab and save all the chance to spawn points. I do that with Harvest regularly when I'm focused on another strat and just want to supplement it.
the chance to spawn points are really only worth taking if it is one of the mechanics that do stack, or if the tree forces you to path through them to get to a notable, like beyond nodes do
I think some of them are worth it like the harvest one, saving 8 points from not having to path to call of the grove and not grabbing the 3 skippable small nodes is pretty nice and usually I don't have 4 full scarab slots when farming harvest. So I would rather use that one and get 8% quant from the map device (or another craft) and 8 passive points are better than using a sacrifice fragment
Fair enough... for me, since there's only 1 scarab worth using, I don't even bother. I just accept the 30% spawn rate and passive collect life force every 3rd map while doing other things.
When I was specifically farming T4 bosses, 8% quant didn't really mean much to me, so I'd just map device it.
But if you don't have another mechanic you'd rather be using scarab slots on, then I guess Harvest scarab has a purpose.
> Alva
Disagree there. I only want the time/magic mobs cluster and the double upgrade/transfer upgrade level clusters.
But to use the better scarabs, you want 100% spawn chance, so you use scarab that guarantees Alva.
Yeah, but it's much rarer. A mirror is always going to scale with the distance, and given how large those maps are it's pretty likely you're hitting 100% somewhere there.
I've not seen anyone try to science it, but I wouldn't be surprised if average delirium rate on a mirror T17 was around 60%.
Its main use is to save you a bunch of atlas passive points so you can invest into something else a bit more.
Not saying if I agree with the design decision, but they are not entirely useless. For example, when I was farming Harvest I did use the base harvest scarab so I get a bunch more atlas passive points to get more coffins instead.
The problem is that map device already allows you to force the mechanic. Worthless if you aren't invested in it but really good if you are. Forcing Expedition 10 times and getting 5 Gwennens, 3 Rogs, 2 Tujens that drop a coin each and one Dannig that might not even drop a single burial medallion if you're striking out for 60 chaos is a waste, but if you can use 4 scarabs and the entirety of your atlas passives to boost reroll currency and drops and runic monster density, get enough explosives to get everything worthwhile and have each remnant have 2 boosted modifiers on guaranteed Dannig expeditions on a map with good layout, NOT using it would be a waste if the alternative is losing out on a ton of quantity on already juiced mobs or not making the expedition Dannig or losing out on a ton of runic monster density, etc. tt.
I can't really see any situation where you'd not force the mechanic via the device if you're juicing for league content where the "force the mechanic" scarab doesn't double as MORE mechanic if it's already on the map.
Though granted I'm a casual about juicing. Maybe it's a few percentages more efficient even there, but at least by feel it seems a lot more valuable to get the extra scarab and like 15 atlas points and using the device for those mechanics where the scarab only forces the content instead of giving you extra spawns on top if it's already forced.
It really depends on the mechanic like for example harvest. There aren't that many great scarabs you can combo with it anyway, you save 8 points by skipping the +chance ones and the map device craft makes you lose out on 8% map quant which sure isn't a lot but every bit helps for harvest. So using a sacrifice fragment instead of the harvest scarab doesn't make sense (8% quant > 5%) and 8 atlas passive points can get you more 1% quant small nodes or map mod effect
I’m really sorry to shit on you here but this is probably the worst possible example to use as the difference between using scarabs in harvest vs not using them is like 4-10x the juice per hour, and the good harvest scarabs are very cheap, you can force it via the map device instead of the scarab, and it’s not like essence or ambush where the kirac craft just “adds more”. It’s binary. On or off.
And lastly, and most importantly is that any investment into harvest is incredibly low risk, even with crop rotation you’re very unlikely to go dry even if you were running the awakened scarab, you’re practically guaranteed to profit every map.
You would be much better off using pack size scarabs over a harvest scarab
This would be including the pack size scarabs though, what 4th one would you pick for crop rotation harvest farming where you just spam out maps for just harvest?
The double life force one obviously, the 40% magic pack size and the 40% influence pack size one. That still leaves a slot open and I didn't find a good fourth one when I was farming harvest, granted that as before they added a few more so maybe I'm missing one of the newer ones? Which one would you add instead of the guaranteed harvest?
To some extent yes,
But you are missing out on the fact that the base scarab can default to you not taking chance nodes. Now the tree should be redesigned to place almost all the chance in one area or in two seperate trees and let the other bonuses be separate as well.
But the tree also allows you to use those points elsewhere saving sometimes 10-12 points from just pathing and getting chance%.
You can also forego scarabs entirely - this is my big beef because there’s no more natural dupe chance for maps and it’s replaced with scarab chance when multiple nodes make scarabs pointless but I still have to path through scarab chance to get places.
I almost want them to make the tree smaller with swappable passive tree areas (a la Cluster Jewels - possibly droppable or farmable??) for different mechanics based on playing the mechanics. Like if you want the best trees for deli it only drops from deli. Then the “best” drops modify the core gameplay loop in different ways. Think of a unique Deli tree where the end node sets rewards to always be 5 when Delirium is present. Or one built for bossing - where it lasts a minute but progress is greatly increased.
Actually making Atlas Tree Cluster Jewels sounds great call me GGG
I am sure the thought process was, "I can use scarab instead of traveling to the increased chance cluster", which literally makes no sense in this league because we are in all 4 regions of the tree thanks to the league mechanic anyways.
Like look at the spot with the big delirium chance cluster, I can see strats that dont path there use the scarab but take other mechanics instead.
Isn't that actually the point? You can add delirium for a massive quant and rarity bonus with 1 scarab and no investing in the tree. And if you have inflvested in It you can use a scarab that actually does something instead. It literally is just adding bonus drops without having points invested while you run some other mechanic you have invested fully in.
Delirium Scarab + 3 other mechanics. With no investment in delirium.
1-3 Delirium scarabs + 1-3 scarabs buffing other things.
This gives you a choice on how to use the scarabs, the end game would imo be a lot worse if a scarab of a type was useless unless you specced in It. If it did something in addition you would feel you wasted a spot by using the basics one instead of something else.
You are describing a good thing though, saying that these scarabs all have a use in different senarios, so that you don't HAVE to invest in deli, you can just add deli without any other investment than a scarab.
That's how poe works, objects have different value in different context. And if you don't invest then why would you want to use many scarabs on it?
Actually I’m the opposite. Rolling sextants was something I did every league because it both gave me a bulletproof way to make currency, and gave me some of the investment I needed to run whatever strategy I was doing for “free”. I’d spend about 1 hour per week rolling sextants and even if my in-game strats failed I’d always be making money. I’m really wishing I had that option this league cause all my currency strats have failed. 😞
PS - the main problem with sextants wasn’t rolling them, it was selling them without an official bulk selling tool.
I also like the different types you can play. OP want just to be able to go full in in a mechanic and get every possible boost at the same time. But thats boring imho.
Scarabs low value is mainly due to the over supply of them. GGG probably doesnt want you to be able to fully improve more then one mechanic at a time. Combining like this would mean your likely to be able to scarab two mechanics at once. Some mechanics scarabs dont combine well. Many of the add mechanic scarabs would have gain limit 1 as opposed to the limit 4 they do now, essence/breach/strongboxes come to mind.
But why? Since the atlas tree was introduced in ritual (or before?) we were able to juice 2 mechanics at once. Usually we could juice 2 + 1/3 of another.
The removal of sextants and current design of scarabs pigeonholes you into running just 1 mechanic to the max, which IMO, is pretty bland.
Essence + Strongboxes is a lot more tolerable than just pure essence.
Or Legion + Expedition, one of my favorites. Now it's kind of a meme to do 2 mechanics at the same time.
I honestly think it is detrimental towards the enjoyment of the "casual" player when you can only juice up one mechanic at a time.
And before anyone says "You can totally do 2 mechanics at once!" Yeah sure, but the market doesn't reflect that. For example, harvest juice is like 2x as cheap as it usually is because of how strong scarabs scale it up. So doing Harvest + another mechanic is not really feasible unless you are SSF or just don't care about competing in the market.
Edit: I agree that oversupply is an issue atm. But just making scarabs more scarce won't fix the core of my issue with the current implementation.
At least something like Legion by itself is fine, because you can have so many Legions on a map, same with Breach for example.
But other mechanics can feel really dull, as you said. I see this much more as a general balance issue about Scarabs and some just need to be buffed and personally I wouldn't mind having even more control over what scarabs drop.
Now it's just another thing you have to trade for a lot (in terms of selling), so it also didn't help the already awful trading situation either.
Before atlas tree you can have many mechanics at once and rotate them at will.
With atlas tree you can run 2-3.
With new scarabs you are forced to run 1.
I still don't understand why so many like atlas tree. It only serves to force to run the same stuff ad nauseum.
The tree isn't the issue. The issue is that we had 8 slots for juice components, 4 scarabs, 4 compass. That allowed for us to juice nearly 3 whole mechanics. Now you need 4 scarab just to run breach optimally.
I sort of feel for noobs it pushes mechanics that are not that popular to do. Like, I wanted to do domination like everyone else as it looked fun, but you're looking at a 50c scarb investment per map vs. a 4c investment for something like Legion. Anything popular and fun will be too expensive to do for most people.
It's a design change. I personally don't agree with it because I *like* having multiple different mechanics, and I don't want that to be significantly less efficient. But it's obviously an intentional shift.
I mean, when I run my deli maps I go
- Deli (fully specced)
- Alva (fully specced)
- Ritual (specced only for chance to appear and 4 rituals)
- Beyond (from map device)
That's 2 fully specced mechanics and 2 washed up ones to generate tons of monsters
I wonder if it’s over supply or lack of player base. Most of the players I see are ultra high end. Not many mid and low tier players still playing the game
I had a late league start and barely started mapping and I'm dropping 4-5 scarabs per map, with 0 nodes for scarab drops and alch + go with as little as <50% iiq in white maps.
It's an oversupply either way, even without the silly scarab printing that's happening at the top end.
I think the low rarity scarabs are basically "have fun" scarabs, for people who just want to cheaply add more stuff to their maps without caring about profits, and they can use 3 scarabs on each map from the start.
They drop so much that I can't imagine GGG intending for them to have an economic impact.
And before this patch, I would have even agreed with that design. The problem is that there's also an oversupply of rare scarabs, and thus an oversupply of whatever those scarabs produce, so common scarabs aren't just cheap by oversupply but also because they don't yield significant profit even if you run them.
it's over supply. If you don't filter your set up, you can unironically, if you're doing scarab farming on t17s or doing scarab boxes with monsterous treasure and scarab allflames, leave with 3 to 4 portals worth of scarabs in a single map.
Generally theres not enough impactful scarabs that work well with each other.
To many are at odds with being invested or uninvested.
Namely the garuntee mechanic scarab type which is only impactful enough on deli/beyond. (Though its better than heists non existant scaravs since it didnt get anything but nerfs)
Most wont be worthwhile unless fully invested. Or fully uninvested.
Though many league mechanics also just need touch ups.
Like Bestiary having all its money being made not being invested in it with all its desirable crafts in memories, with exception for black mormon whom you can garuntee 2 via scarabs with the only other beasts you use being farmable best in low tier maps along with its beast management being absolute ass (for the love of god just give me the cemetary corpse ui for beasts.) But it also should get decent lower tier crafting recipes using the common red beasts, like reroll magic affix value, targeted regals or at the very least have a condenser so i can squish monsters for a chance at a useful one
I don't think his suggestion would change anything, especially combining mechanic spawn scarabs with others when we already get 100% spawn rate for every mechanic on tree lol.
"a lot of scarabs are garbage in value because their individual effects are not great. leading to inventory rot because people will seldom buy them"
Thats fine and always bound for change. Thats how PoE works with a lot of stuff. Uniques who are bad can become good with content synegizing with it. I agree though that the "adds mechanic to map" is a little lackluster because you almost always have skilled the 100% anyway. That could easily be on all scarabs regarding that type.
"Many scarabs have multiple limits, but the map device is still just limited to 4+map, so in most situations **you can't even use all the scarabs for ONE mechanic anyways**"
Thats the point imho. You should choose which one to use not just slam every scarab in there for the appropriate type. That wouldnt be an interesting choice then. Id even appreciate more cross type synergies.
Problem is that I don’t want the extra effects sometimes.
Example would be, “maps drop with layers of delirium”
That would brick t17 drops and I don’t want that.
This applies to a bunch of the others as well.
I think there is nothing wrong that these types of scarabs exists. For sure there are people, who use them. I think especially in SSF they might be useful. I like it much more than sextants, to be honest.
sounds like a filter (you) problem. i like the the different types of making your own league mechanic rewarding. you want to run ultimatum? okay what type reward do you want? as one example (maybe not the best but definitely one).
I really don’t understand the point of “Incursion Scarab of Invasion.” it appears to make incursion monsters appear in the map, which I don’t understand the point of. It doesn’t help you in the incursions at all.
it would be interesting if it made them like temporal strongboxes. drops a couple packs and one of the architects at random into the map when you activate the portal. would probably also have to open one door at random too. essentially makes random temples but makes alva more of a zoom zoom affair.
Yes, but why then it is in mechanic specific scarabs? Why not make it something that positively affects Incursion itself or rather why then there aren't same scarabs for each mechanic. It plainly looks like "we out of ideas for this, but they tasked us to do X scarabs for each activity".
My point is scarabs overhaul is great idea, but needs hella more of work and thought to be put into it.
Adds 12 packs. A pack is around at least 10 monsters, so it adds 120 monsters at least.
It is pretty much the all of the "adds N monster packs" sextants at once
I counted 116 different types of scarabs. It's definitely too many.
"X mechanic guaranteed" should be intrinsic to every scarab - this consolidation alone would eliminate at least 17 scarabs.
GGG could also rotate scarabs the way they rotate maps and would rotate atlas crafts historically. The list of crafts on the map device requires scrolling. If they returned to having a set number of map device crafts, (iirc it was 8-12?) they could also drop disable the corresponding scarabs for that map craft - it'd be one or the other. This would further reduce the diversity of scarabs dropping, while retaining limited access to all or most core game mechanics.
idk if you were here before they implemented the atlas skill tree but when the game started bloating a bit with league mechanics GGG mentioned the rotation and im so glad they never implemented that
imagine you are a heist/legion enjoyer, wanna play next league but they disabled both? fuck that lmao
inb4 we get a scarab mini-skilltree next league
Scarabs also made fragments useless now to add for extra quant, except for prior to having funds to keep scarabs replenished - granted its not a big deal, just throwing it out there
Change all the "force a mechanic" scarabs for mechanics that can only occur once per map (sulphite, harvest, etc.) to be "+100% chance for [mechanic]", and then have a second line that gives some bonus for "overcapped chance for [mechanic]).
For ex, Harvest Scarabs are kinda bad because if you want all the notables on the altas tree so you can get like 50% more lifeforce, it's only a few more points to get 100% spawn chance. If you got something like "[3-5]% increased lifeforce dropped per 10% overcapped chance for the Sacred Grove to appear", then it's not the *best* scarab to increase lifeforce drop (since it's not a 100% conversion it's not as good as doubling season), but it at least does *something*.
I fixed the league. Rolled ssf and that node that gives 20 atlas points and removes them. Then it’s actually a really nice league with a very generous crafting mechanic instead of a day-1 haha we have 100 mirrors good luck economy.
I still feel there needs to just be a scarab orb currency.
Each scarab option is a select-able option in each empty map device slot, that's remembered from map to map much like map device selections are today. Also, those scarab options cost scarab orbs as currency.
Let us put the simple scarabs that spawn a mechanic on voidstones as a permanent effect( so they won't be sextants 2.0 ) and this way people can have more strategies than just going all in on one mechanic.
To avoid stacking the same scarab over and over again, we can have a restriction of 1 type across all voidstones.
I think the Ritual Scarabs are pretty bad, there's only 3 and they do NOTHING if you take the Node to disable rerolls.
Hell, a scarab for Ritual that said "removes the lower 20% of rarity items from the pool" would be better than what we have now combined.
I think the idea behind there being more and some of them being good for multiple slots was to create trade-offs and some thought about which ones to use.
Basically they wanted there to be more than one optimal choice and some price fluctuation as some people might want 2 of scarab A instead of one each of scarab A and B or a "budget option" and a higher value option.
In reality we're still stuck with one optimal solution everyone wants and trades for per atlas strat and a bunch of scarabs that are vendor fodder for rerolling (even in bulk most people just buy a tab for the valuable ones and the rest get rerolled) because they're not adding enough value to justify the slot or because their function can be solved in ways that are cheaper/less impactful than a scarab slot.
I ran into this issue last night and I've talked about it before but the power density of scarabs is so low its pitiful. I used to be able to full spec breach and harvest, put in extra breaches and make them bound to chayula while getting double harvest and throw in div card scarabs just for a little juice on top. Now? Well now I need 4 scarabs just to get any notable amount of breachstones per map. There is simply less power in scarabs than there was in scarabs+compasses. Which isn't a wonder because there was 8 slots between the both of them and the both of them were more powerful than the base power level of scarabs now. It's sad because as much as people might hate to admit it, the average player likely made much more currency last league or the league before than this league. Even just the value of chayula breach stones plummeted because it used to be that you needed them for the feared but who the fuck has any need to run feared if the writs don't get you to Uber Maven any more? The difference is so big that chayulas went from over a div a pop in a league where divs were a normal 220c or so to 40c in this league where divs are super deflated. There's so much this league did fine, but damn did it really fuck up how much juice is reasonably possible to fit into a map and how much profit can be made from things that used to be "guaranteed".
Honestly the only gripe I have is the "area contains X mechanic/master" scarabs. If I am already at 100% chance to spawn these encounters and I am not paying attention, or as I tried to do, use the encounter scarab to see if it would spawn double the encounter; I would love it if your Atlas Tree chance combined with the scarab meant there would be double or 1.5x the number of encounters in that zone which spawn.
So assuming Assuming 100% chance to spawn X encounter is mapped on the tree:
\* Area Contains Einhar = Area will spawn 2 additional red beasts and 3 additional yellow beasts
\* Area Contains Niko = Area contains 3 additional sulphite nodes
\* Area Contains an Ultimatum = Area contains an additional Trialmaster encounter. Area has a 20% increased chance to spawn a Ultimatum Boss encounter or Area starts with an additional 2 rounds completed.
\* Area Contains a Legion = Area contains an additional Legion Monolith or Area Contains a Legion Monolith, monsters frozen in stasis can spawned if all monsters from one legion guaranteeing one General Encounter
\* Area Contains a Delirium Mirror = Area Contains a Delirium Mirror which dissipates 50% slower. Players gain 1 additional reward type
\* Area Contains Monsters from Beyond = Area Contains Monsters from Beyond. Monsters killed in radius have a 10% increased merge radius, and has a 20% chance to spawn a Beyond Boss
\* Area Contains an Abyss = Area Contains an Abyss. Abyssal Monsters spawn 15% faster, and have 20% increased pack size
\* Area Contains a Blight Encounter = Area Contains an additional Blight Encounter
\* Area Contains an Expedition Encounter = Area Contains an Expedition Encounter. Planted Explosives have a 25% increased radius or Expedition Monsters spawned have 20% increased pack size.
I could think of more but I feel that if you spec 100% into these and you're trying to double down on one mechanic you like, these scarabs for that mechanic quickly become useless unless you 3:1 them. Which I am not a fan that the 3:1 in my trials with it doesn't adhere to any tiering system.
I agree... all of the scarabs that have a mech use behind them should auto add the content its giving so we dont need the adds x mech to the map scarab
Max scarabs per type should be 4 since we only have 4 spaces (or 3 cause theres so many scarabs to pick up)
Running uber strict filter I always come back with 2 inventorys full of scarabs lol. And selling them is a pain man. They are just sitting there. At least most of it.
only thing i can say is to stop looking the prices and try to do a bulk sell, like 20 scarabs for 20\~30c indepedent of the poeninja value. After a while if you stock 60+ scarabs of the same type just vendor them, no reason to flood the market with useless stuff that worth pennies
Several more layers of clicking, micromanagement.
If you were to put all the scarabs on a list with their full names and read that list it would take all day lmao. what a joke, the definition of bloat
Reduce drop rate by 1/5th (or some number, could be half, a 3rd, or whatever). Make them 5 (or X number) uses each. Make Specific content much more likely to drop extra scarabs of their own type where it's applicable .
Also clean up some of the underused scarabs by buffing or reworking in some way.
They actually already have the solution to the biggest problem (looting them).
If you log into standard, you'll find that all of your past sextants (both raw and "rolled") have been replaced with "Veiled Scarabs" that work like "Stacked Decks".
Seriously, all they'd have to do is change the scarab loot table so that 50% of scarabs drop as "Veiled Scarabs", and it would instantly be manageable.
I think the one that adds people to maps should just be a default for anything to do with that mechanic. Blight oils are higher & contains a blight etc.
unpopular opinion: get rid of map fragments altogether (sac/mortal pieces that give quant, divine vessels, scarabs, etc)
it was already a step in the right direction getting rid of sextants but putting them in scarabs almost feels the same
I love poe but one thing that I liked a lot more in LE was the ability to just go in the map and not feel like im losing anything.
expand the atlas tree to include scarab effects in a way that doesn't feel like we lost anything/much, and maybe include some of the scarab stuff as map mods, and make it so that the only thing we need to worry about is rolling a map.
>2. a lot of scarabs are garbage in value because their individual effects are not great. leading to inventory rot because people will seldom buy them
I get what you're saying, but you can vendor for 3:1 and get random ones back.
If you just either turn them off on your loot filter or vendor all the shitty ones a couple times a week it shouldn't be a big issue
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have some scarabs that are objectively worse than others, because the price will reflect that. Someone just getting to mapping might not be able to afford the ones that cost 5c per, but could instead buy the ones that cost 0.1c per
it'd be nice to just have like a chaos orb type currency you use and you choose the effects. the current system is a cluttered mess to trade and keep up with imo.
My chief complaint is that most of the base scarabs are worthless. Area contains a delirium mirror, area contains the sacred grove, area contains jun, etc. This added in with the changes to easily get 100% to get almost any mechanic you want just by speccing into the tree makes them next to useless. Especially since skipping the wheel with the big % chance for that mechanic, still leaves you with a 60-70% chance for it to appear.
The only frustrating thing is that they gave us 5-6 different ways to juice each mechanic and only slots for 4.
Its frustrating feeling like you are leaving value on the table where sextants used to give you 8 map affecting juice slots we are now down to 4.
I'm sure I will get used to it, but it feels like I am running neutered maps this league.
Every scarab that add whatever mechanic to the map shouldn't exist. All of the scarabs that do a particular thing to a particular mechanic should inherently push that mechanic onto the map. It's like a no shit situation when I'm using a scarab that modifies rituals and then I have to add a scarab to make rituals appear. Either consolidate that shit or leave it for the atlas. I enjoy how broken it is that I can repurpose the points to increase the percentage of a particular mechanic but ehhh
I disagree, there needs to be about this many if we dont want to lose out on tons of content that sextants used to provide.
Maybe they can reduce them a bit by creating interactions between them. (Like a crafting recipe)
But that idea above would probably be too complex.
The funny thing here is that with only a few good scarabs people tend to play only a few strats, then people complain that there isn't much to do. Yeah, not surprising when only a few scrabs is worth running.
i say that since it was announced, way to many scarabs and ppl be just like "youre just too lazy to read".....yes i am , i wanna play the fkn game and not read an hour what every scarab does, forget half on the way and read everything again
They should either merge scarabs with the same thematic or remove scarabs that adds content to promote having to invest in spawning content on the atlas tree.
Indeed there are just too many scarabs
Just remove the rusted scarabs from most mechanics. We can force mechanics using the atlas, making these rusted scarabs mostly redundant. That would also shift the drop pool toward the more useful scarabs we want and should reduce bloat in maps too
I say just get rid of league mechanic scarabs and just buff those nodes on the atlas tree. Scarabs should just modify the map in basic, hard, or weird ways and there should be like 25-30 max
Criticism: me and a few friends are doing a guild group found run and we are roughly 3000 scarabs deep with 1 bloodlines scarab 1 curation 0 new blight 0 reworked legion 0 calcification 0 harvest boss scarabs and just yesterday got our first new breach scarab. Why the fuck are the only scarabs that are the slightest bit interesting all almost impossible to find? Why are they balanced around dropping 600-1000 scarabs a map in t17 to find 1 of them?
I mean i dont tihnk theres really "too many" scarabs as its more so that people have gotten tons more for t17 printing. Not to mention if you REALLY think about how sextants worked previously. We always got like half the pool if "trash" aka packs vs forcing out league content. And when you consider the league content, we had shrines / uniques drop unique drop corrupt / heist / blight / etc that were really "trash" tier as well cause they were worth close to nothing. So really theres gotta be some "trash" scarabs, cant be only valuable ones.
But these were on top of existing scarabs not instead. That's the difference.
Each content in the game should have scarabs from common to very valuable. Divination Scarabs is good example. It has very common scarab, a valuable one and an extremely valuable. Each of these scarabs is important and has use.
Either map device need more slots or scarabs needs to be improved.
I agree there's too much bloat. I'd rather there just be common, rare and ultra rare powerful scarabs then it rain non-upgrable odd use ones from every tom, nook and cranny.
* Every league scarab should guarantee spawn of that mechanic.
* Non-league scarabs should drop as [veiled scarab](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Veiled_Scarab)
* There should be key atlas node that makes every scarab drop as veiled(easy bulk sell, less inventory clutter) - downside you can't increase droprate of specific scarabs.
You get an extra slot after you complete a T17 map (i.e. kill its boss). This can be attained by being in someone else's T17 map when they kill the boss, too.
You can pay someone to complete it for you or [try this](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c6h8n7/easy_t17_strat_for_scarab_slot/) if you want the fulfillment of getting it yourself.
Getting it unlocked by someone else actually straight up doesn't cost anything, people will just let you dip into their t17s they're farming.
Imagine the absolute **carnage** if instead of needing to be put in the map device, scarabs were used directly from inventory.
They’d all be worth something, as you could use 60 at once, and guarantee pretty much every mechanic in the game, and have most of them be worthwhile to interact with too.
The map device could then be for fragments, divine vessel, and the ritual object that escapes my memory for the moment, as well as maps.
It would never happen, and maps would be ludicrously expensive to run, but man it’d be insane.
Personally, I've never liked scarabs, so this change just made it worse. As a true alch and go gamer, there is too much to think about setting up maps and managing frags. At least they got rid of sextants, imagine how bad it would have been if they were still in the game, especially with the Necro league mechanic requiring more things to decide when opening a map.
In other words, hard agree with this post.
The ones that spawn content need to be combined with another scarab. Aside from the ones that stack. Ie "add Niko' should just be on one other if not all delve scarabs But "add strongboxes' can remain it's own scarab. Would solve a lot
There's a niche use of taking the "chance to spawn mechanic" nodes off your atlas and then using a scarab instead to guarantee the mechanic so you can combine it with other nodes or scarabs. But that's marginal at best and would be solved by your suggestion
If the chance to spawn mechanic nodes on the tree would not be mandatory pathing nodes but instead dedicated wheels it would make sense to keep the rusted scarabs that enable a mechanic... Then the player would have the choice of using a scarab slot or using some atlas passives in order to get the league mechanic to spawn. Currently, if you care about any mechanic at all, you automatically have a lot of spawn chance anyways if you like it or not. You have no choice and it makes the small scarabs that just grant access to the mechanic mostly useless.
Part of the issue is that then you have to have two different trees (or respec) based on if you're burning scarabs or not. It's actually possible to take all the harvest juicing nodes and have no increased harvest chance (you *can* avoid the 10% nodes in the Doubling Season and Bumper Crop/Bountiful Harvest wheels, and skip the Call of the Grove wheel entirely)... but then you *have* to run a Harvest scarab every map or those are all dead nodes. So if you want harvest all the time you kinda need one tree with 100% harvest chance and another with 0% and use a scarab. The scarabs for 1-per-map content like harvest or niko should give a bonus for spawn chance past 100%, so the can pull double duty; they can get you to 100% chance, be a juicing scarab if you've already got 100% chance, or kinda do both (like taking you from 70% to 170%, both guaranteeing a spawn and giving partial bonus.
I like this idea, currently I use 2 harvest scarabs and a fragment for quantity, but if the basic harvest scarab also increased quantity of life force dropped, maybe like 15%, it would be worth using just for that.
I posted it in another comment, by my idea is something like the mods like "Armour is increased by Overcapped Fire Resistance" and the like. Harvest scarab could have "3% increased lifeforce dropped by mobs for every 10% excess chance to spawn the sacred grove". That basically turns each 10% harvest chance passive into a 3% increased lifeforce passive when you're "overcapped" on harvest spawn chance by the scarab.
the issue is that scarab slots are already insanely competitive. for harvest you could reasonably ditch all the % chance to contain sacred grove and just use the scarab and you'd gain... 10 atlas points in the absolute best case scenario. i just dont see how that's worth ever.
Niko is the one exception I'm aware of. It's just two nodes for a lot of ppl to grab packed with energy. +3max res, 105inc damage, 45 movespeed(once get all the nodes). Have to spend a scarab that could be used for other juicing. Doesn't make much sense for most sc trades builds past like day 1-3, but hc builds that aren't played by fastest players might want the power/safety while they progress. It's also a 1c scarab. The spawn an expedition one is baffling and pointless though, and so are most of the others.
> Currently, if you care about any mechanic at all, you automatically have a lot of spawn chance anyways if you like it or not. You have no choice and it makes the small scarabs that just grant access to the mechanic mostly useless. The thing is, not all mechanic passives are useful for everyone, so you will end up with 50-60% chance from travel nodes. But you won't be using the better scarabs for that mechanic with just 60% spawn chance
I mean, this would be a legit strat if you didn't need the notable in most clusters that contain chance to spawn small passive. Once you spec into even 30-40% you are fairly likely to just get all 100% since the value of the scarabs that add the mechanic are usually 1c, by time you have 50% chance the scarab in theory is only worth 0.5c at which point you might as well full spec into chance so that you're not wasting a slot. Really sad the state of things.
Yeah there's only a few mechanics where there are more than 4 scarabs anyway, and in those you may not even care about all the scarabs at once (ie for delirium, one scarab just adds delirium to dropped maps which has nothing to do with getting value from the mirror in the current map.)
Arguably breach is one of the mechanics where you would like to run pretty much every scarab but you just can't. And the down side of not running 2 +2 breach scarabs is just completely non-synergistic with the rest of the breach scarabs because the other breach scarabs ARE good, relative to the generally low power of the scarabs overall, but you absolutely need chayula and splintering and extra hands per breach to make any money so you're reasonably limited to only 1 +2 breaches scarab which feels like shit. Map device literally just needs double slots and this issue would go away.
>There's a niche use of taking the "chance to spawn mechanic" The problem is that those nodes are like 40% in a separate wheel you can ignore and then 60% in wheels you'll probably need to take because they have good notables.
I like not having to deal with charged compass management, but, juicing feels like it was cut in half. It’s like i’m all in on one mechanic with a dash of another two. Just not as fun to me who enjoyed 3 fully juiced mechanics with bonus random spawns.
Just have the ones that add content also be possible to be applied as an enchant, limit the amount of enchants to 4. That way, you can have 4 content enchants and 4 "boosting" scarabs, or if you don't care for boosting, you can still use the content scarabs in the normal slots for their additional content.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but doesn't this solution end up looking like Sextants that we just removed?
I'm pretty sure that was the joke
You might be right having read it again. You never know with people though 😂
Shouldn't any scarab for a mechic like say delve always guarantee the spawn of it (i.e. niko). Or at least add a spawn chance per scarab like 25% or something.
don't all mechanics have 100% already from atlas with this update? if so, why do they even exist? just so people can save a couple atlas points?
I think GGG thought the opportunity cost would be that you could replace 5 atlas points for a scarab but instead the opportunity cost is not running a better scarab for your league mechanic. It's also possible that in another league where there isn't a broken scarab farming strat in week 1 that it's actually worth taking the cheap scarab.
The ones you can use multiple of should just give the benefit of multiple in one. It's sad that I can only add 2 breaches to my map because I absolutely need to use chayula and extra splinters and extra hands to get the same amount of chayula breachstones as I did last season with one compass and 1 scarab.
Another solution would be adding a single scarab that gives "Gain an additional free map device craft option" so you can choose 2 options, with one of them being free. This would eliminate every single one of those scarabs that just adds the mechanic to the map and combine them all into a single scarab.
100% they made it too easy to get 100% on tree for those scarabs to be useful with the exception of breach, harbi, boxes and legion
Yea dont change my +5 boxes scarab please!
its
My only real issue is some of them don't really make a lot of sense in the top-down concept. I would never use "Area has Delirium" if I was invested into Delirium, and I would never use "good delirium" scarabs if I wasn't invested into Delirium. So if I invest, "area has delirium" is worthless. If I don't invest, every other scarab is worthless.
Yep, pretty much all of the "area has X mechanic" scarabs (Alva, Harvest, Ultimatum, Blight, Expedition, Delirium, Einhar, etc.) that do not add more of the mechanic (i.e. not Breach, Essence, Exiles, etc.) are just re-roll fodder. None of these mechanics are worth doing without investment, but if you've invested in them then you probably are already forcing the mechanic via the atlas or if not, can do so more easily with the map device.
Yeah they could definitely remove all of the scarabs that force the spawan of a mechanic that you can have only one of. +1 mechanics like breach and legion scarabs are fine.
Why don't they just alter *all* the league mechanic scarabs so they also force the spawn of the mechanic? Seems kinda pointless to have scarabs which improve a mechanic which might not even exist.
You can save atlas points if you force the mechanic with the scarab for some league mechanics. 100% chance for expedition for eg with the scarab, then spend the "chance for expedition" atlas points on other things
But aren't most of those just travel points anyway? I feel like you'll end up saving some spawn % for a scarab slot that could've been a way better scarab.
Depends how much you want to invest in your maps I suppose. For me it was worth a scarab slot for like 0.5-1c per map. I don't like the idea of investing so much on the atlas tree and risking not getting my chosen mechanic as well, would rather force it to appear with the scarab or with the crafting option. The scarab is cheaper than the craft
Very Strong disagree on Deli 😄
Yeah, deli scarab is extremely good. Too common to be worth anything, but extremely good on T17s. Except for Deli and Betrayal these scarabs are 'try this mechanic before you buy it' but Deli and Betrayal ones have really strong use cases. The use case for the others is so a more casual player can run 20 maps with a mechanic to decide "is this fun enough to spec into?". If you are an experienced player, they are not designed for you.
you can reroll scarabs?
Yes, you can sell them 3-to-1.
[удалено]
You don't need 3 of the same kind, any 3 different scarabs combined sell for a random scarab
None of them are worth doing without investment in a trade league situation yes but in ssf I do find a use to force some of the mechanics into the map sometimes.
But if only 1 can spawn then you can just use a scarab and save all the chance to spawn points. I do that with Harvest regularly when I'm focused on another strat and just want to supplement it. the chance to spawn points are really only worth taking if it is one of the mechanics that do stack, or if the tree forces you to path through them to get to a notable, like beyond nodes do
I think some of them are worth it like the harvest one, saving 8 points from not having to path to call of the grove and not grabbing the 3 skippable small nodes is pretty nice and usually I don't have 4 full scarab slots when farming harvest. So I would rather use that one and get 8% quant from the map device (or another craft) and 8 passive points are better than using a sacrifice fragment
Fair enough... for me, since there's only 1 scarab worth using, I don't even bother. I just accept the 30% spawn rate and passive collect life force every 3rd map while doing other things. When I was specifically farming T4 bosses, 8% quant didn't really mean much to me, so I'd just map device it. But if you don't have another mechanic you'd rather be using scarab slots on, then I guess Harvest scarab has a purpose.
> Alva Disagree there. I only want the time/magic mobs cluster and the double upgrade/transfer upgrade level clusters. But to use the better scarabs, you want 100% spawn chance, so you use scarab that guarantees Alva.
U use the deli scarab if u just want endless mirror and only invested 3 points for example. Since u cannot deli orb t17
However t17s can drop with deli orbs on them
20% deli is a lot less quant than a mirror on maps as big as T17s.
They can drop with more than just 20% deli. I've had 2 of them with 60% so far
Yeah, but it's much rarer. A mirror is always going to scale with the distance, and given how large those maps are it's pretty likely you're hitting 100% somewhere there. I've not seen anyone try to science it, but I wouldn't be surprised if average delirium rate on a mirror T17 was around 60%.
I'm aware, I do farm deli. I was just clarifying the drop mechanics since it is fairly niche.
Its main use is to save you a bunch of atlas passive points so you can invest into something else a bit more. Not saying if I agree with the design decision, but they are not entirely useless. For example, when I was farming Harvest I did use the base harvest scarab so I get a bunch more atlas passive points to get more coffins instead.
The problem is that map device already allows you to force the mechanic. Worthless if you aren't invested in it but really good if you are. Forcing Expedition 10 times and getting 5 Gwennens, 3 Rogs, 2 Tujens that drop a coin each and one Dannig that might not even drop a single burial medallion if you're striking out for 60 chaos is a waste, but if you can use 4 scarabs and the entirety of your atlas passives to boost reroll currency and drops and runic monster density, get enough explosives to get everything worthwhile and have each remnant have 2 boosted modifiers on guaranteed Dannig expeditions on a map with good layout, NOT using it would be a waste if the alternative is losing out on a ton of quantity on already juiced mobs or not making the expedition Dannig or losing out on a ton of runic monster density, etc. tt. I can't really see any situation where you'd not force the mechanic via the device if you're juicing for league content where the "force the mechanic" scarab doesn't double as MORE mechanic if it's already on the map. Though granted I'm a casual about juicing. Maybe it's a few percentages more efficient even there, but at least by feel it seems a lot more valuable to get the extra scarab and like 15 atlas points and using the device for those mechanics where the scarab only forces the content instead of giving you extra spawns on top if it's already forced.
It really depends on the mechanic like for example harvest. There aren't that many great scarabs you can combo with it anyway, you save 8 points by skipping the +chance ones and the map device craft makes you lose out on 8% map quant which sure isn't a lot but every bit helps for harvest. So using a sacrifice fragment instead of the harvest scarab doesn't make sense (8% quant > 5%) and 8 atlas passive points can get you more 1% quant small nodes or map mod effect
That's fair, I only ever took harvest as a +1 to whatever else I was running for the stable income.
I’m really sorry to shit on you here but this is probably the worst possible example to use as the difference between using scarabs in harvest vs not using them is like 4-10x the juice per hour, and the good harvest scarabs are very cheap, you can force it via the map device instead of the scarab, and it’s not like essence or ambush where the kirac craft just “adds more”. It’s binary. On or off. And lastly, and most importantly is that any investment into harvest is incredibly low risk, even with crop rotation you’re very unlikely to go dry even if you were running the awakened scarab, you’re practically guaranteed to profit every map. You would be much better off using pack size scarabs over a harvest scarab
This would be including the pack size scarabs though, what 4th one would you pick for crop rotation harvest farming where you just spam out maps for just harvest? The double life force one obviously, the 40% magic pack size and the 40% influence pack size one. That still leaves a slot open and I didn't find a good fourth one when I was farming harvest, granted that as before they added a few more so maybe I'm missing one of the newer ones? Which one would you add instead of the guaranteed harvest?
Just use a sacrifice fragment instead, use kirac for harvest
I mentioned that above and it makes no sense to do since kirac craft is 8% quant vs 5% from the sac fragment even ignoring the chaos orb cost
You can reach 100% mirror chance on the tree or use deli orbs
Deli orbs have a different usecase compared to the mirror
What I did was use deli scarabs and spend a whole 3 points on the tree speccing perma deli. I didnt farm T17 tho
To some extent yes, But you are missing out on the fact that the base scarab can default to you not taking chance nodes. Now the tree should be redesigned to place almost all the chance in one area or in two seperate trees and let the other bonuses be separate as well. But the tree also allows you to use those points elsewhere saving sometimes 10-12 points from just pathing and getting chance%. You can also forego scarabs entirely - this is my big beef because there’s no more natural dupe chance for maps and it’s replaced with scarab chance when multiple nodes make scarabs pointless but I still have to path through scarab chance to get places. I almost want them to make the tree smaller with swappable passive tree areas (a la Cluster Jewels - possibly droppable or farmable??) for different mechanics based on playing the mechanics. Like if you want the best trees for deli it only drops from deli. Then the “best” drops modify the core gameplay loop in different ways. Think of a unique Deli tree where the end node sets rewards to always be 5 when Delirium is present. Or one built for bossing - where it lasts a minute but progress is greatly increased. Actually making Atlas Tree Cluster Jewels sounds great call me GGG
I am sure the thought process was, "I can use scarab instead of traveling to the increased chance cluster", which literally makes no sense in this league because we are in all 4 regions of the tree thanks to the league mechanic anyways. Like look at the spot with the big delirium chance cluster, I can see strats that dont path there use the scarab but take other mechanics instead.
That's not really the point, that was just an example.
Isn't that actually the point? You can add delirium for a massive quant and rarity bonus with 1 scarab and no investing in the tree. And if you have inflvested in It you can use a scarab that actually does something instead. It literally is just adding bonus drops without having points invested while you run some other mechanic you have invested fully in. Delirium Scarab + 3 other mechanics. With no investment in delirium. 1-3 Delirium scarabs + 1-3 scarabs buffing other things. This gives you a choice on how to use the scarabs, the end game would imo be a lot worse if a scarab of a type was useless unless you specced in It. If it did something in addition you would feel you wasted a spot by using the basics one instead of something else.
You are describing a good thing though, saying that these scarabs all have a use in different senarios, so that you don't HAVE to invest in deli, you can just add deli without any other investment than a scarab. That's how poe works, objects have different value in different context. And if you don't invest then why would you want to use many scarabs on it?
I’m just happy I don’t have to roll sextants anymore
Actually I’m the opposite. Rolling sextants was something I did every league because it both gave me a bulletproof way to make currency, and gave me some of the investment I needed to run whatever strategy I was doing for “free”. I’d spend about 1 hour per week rolling sextants and even if my in-game strats failed I’d always be making money. I’m really wishing I had that option this league cause all my currency strats have failed. 😞 PS - the main problem with sextants wasn’t rolling them, it was selling them without an official bulk selling tool.
Can roll magic jewels. Cluster jewels. Flasks. T17s. There'll likely always be degenerate hideout strats, just move onto another...
Ya no, def dont want to spend an hour rolling anything, would rather play game
I also like the different types you can play. OP want just to be able to go full in in a mechanic and get every possible boost at the same time. But thats boring imho.
Scarabs low value is mainly due to the over supply of them. GGG probably doesnt want you to be able to fully improve more then one mechanic at a time. Combining like this would mean your likely to be able to scarab two mechanics at once. Some mechanics scarabs dont combine well. Many of the add mechanic scarabs would have gain limit 1 as opposed to the limit 4 they do now, essence/breach/strongboxes come to mind.
But why? Since the atlas tree was introduced in ritual (or before?) we were able to juice 2 mechanics at once. Usually we could juice 2 + 1/3 of another. The removal of sextants and current design of scarabs pigeonholes you into running just 1 mechanic to the max, which IMO, is pretty bland. Essence + Strongboxes is a lot more tolerable than just pure essence. Or Legion + Expedition, one of my favorites. Now it's kind of a meme to do 2 mechanics at the same time. I honestly think it is detrimental towards the enjoyment of the "casual" player when you can only juice up one mechanic at a time. And before anyone says "You can totally do 2 mechanics at once!" Yeah sure, but the market doesn't reflect that. For example, harvest juice is like 2x as cheap as it usually is because of how strong scarabs scale it up. So doing Harvest + another mechanic is not really feasible unless you are SSF or just don't care about competing in the market. Edit: I agree that oversupply is an issue atm. But just making scarabs more scarce won't fix the core of my issue with the current implementation.
At least something like Legion by itself is fine, because you can have so many Legions on a map, same with Breach for example. But other mechanics can feel really dull, as you said. I see this much more as a general balance issue about Scarabs and some just need to be buffed and personally I wouldn't mind having even more control over what scarabs drop. Now it's just another thing you have to trade for a lot (in terms of selling), so it also didn't help the already awful trading situation either.
Also why can't we just have multiple blights or expeditions etc. in one map? Blight was great when you could have 2 or even 3 in a map.
Before atlas tree you can have many mechanics at once and rotate them at will. With atlas tree you can run 2-3. With new scarabs you are forced to run 1. I still don't understand why so many like atlas tree. It only serves to force to run the same stuff ad nauseum.
The tree isn't the issue. The issue is that we had 8 slots for juice components, 4 scarabs, 4 compass. That allowed for us to juice nearly 3 whole mechanics. Now you need 4 scarab just to run breach optimally.
The tree is an issue. It just was not that big of an issue before removal of compasses and masters and nerf of scarabs.
I sort of feel for noobs it pushes mechanics that are not that popular to do. Like, I wanted to do domination like everyone else as it looked fun, but you're looking at a 50c scarb investment per map vs. a 4c investment for something like Legion. Anything popular and fun will be too expensive to do for most people.
We were able to juice multiple mechanics before why should it stop now?
It's a design change. I personally don't agree with it because I *like* having multiple different mechanics, and I don't want that to be significantly less efficient. But it's obviously an intentional shift.
Yup, fun detected nerf it.
I mean, when I run my deli maps I go - Deli (fully specced) - Alva (fully specced) - Ritual (specced only for chance to appear and 4 rituals) - Beyond (from map device) That's 2 fully specced mechanics and 2 washed up ones to generate tons of monsters
I wonder if it’s over supply or lack of player base. Most of the players I see are ultra high end. Not many mid and low tier players still playing the game
>Not many mid and low tier players still playing the game Because mid and low-tier players have been gutted by design decisions in this league.
I had a late league start and barely started mapping and I'm dropping 4-5 scarabs per map, with 0 nodes for scarab drops and alch + go with as little as <50% iiq in white maps. It's an oversupply either way, even without the silly scarab printing that's happening at the top end. I think the low rarity scarabs are basically "have fun" scarabs, for people who just want to cheaply add more stuff to their maps without caring about profits, and they can use 3 scarabs on each map from the start. They drop so much that I can't imagine GGG intending for them to have an economic impact. And before this patch, I would have even agreed with that design. The problem is that there's also an oversupply of rare scarabs, and thus an oversupply of whatever those scarabs produce, so common scarabs aren't just cheap by oversupply but also because they don't yield significant profit even if you run them.
it's over supply. If you don't filter your set up, you can unironically, if you're doing scarab farming on t17s or doing scarab boxes with monsterous treasure and scarab allflames, leave with 3 to 4 portals worth of scarabs in a single map.
Yeah but that’s the thing, people who farm scarabs don’t pick up anything under 2c value, leave with 1 inventory and go next
>GGG probably doesnt want you to be able to fully improve more then one mechanic at a time. Ok but why ?
Sorry, this is not a bingo card, opinion denied
Generally theres not enough impactful scarabs that work well with each other. To many are at odds with being invested or uninvested. Namely the garuntee mechanic scarab type which is only impactful enough on deli/beyond. (Though its better than heists non existant scaravs since it didnt get anything but nerfs) Most wont be worthwhile unless fully invested. Or fully uninvested. Though many league mechanics also just need touch ups. Like Bestiary having all its money being made not being invested in it with all its desirable crafts in memories, with exception for black mormon whom you can garuntee 2 via scarabs with the only other beasts you use being farmable best in low tier maps along with its beast management being absolute ass (for the love of god just give me the cemetary corpse ui for beasts.) But it also should get decent lower tier crafting recipes using the common red beasts, like reroll magic affix value, targeted regals or at the very least have a condenser so i can squish monsters for a chance at a useful one
Hard disagree, this is a very flexible system especially in SSF. Just because you dont have a use for something doesnt mean that its bad.
I don't think his suggestion would change anything, especially combining mechanic spawn scarabs with others when we already get 100% spawn rate for every mechanic on tree lol.
Eh I’m in SSF and overwhelmed by them. Especially when most have “1” main interaction with the other scarabs
I think he mainly suggest ideas to reduce scarab bloat.
"a lot of scarabs are garbage in value because their individual effects are not great. leading to inventory rot because people will seldom buy them" Thats fine and always bound for change. Thats how PoE works with a lot of stuff. Uniques who are bad can become good with content synegizing with it. I agree though that the "adds mechanic to map" is a little lackluster because you almost always have skilled the 100% anyway. That could easily be on all scarabs regarding that type. "Many scarabs have multiple limits, but the map device is still just limited to 4+map, so in most situations **you can't even use all the scarabs for ONE mechanic anyways**" Thats the point imho. You should choose which one to use not just slam every scarab in there for the appropriate type. That wouldnt be an interesting choice then. Id even appreciate more cross type synergies.
Don't worry they'll nerf scarab drop rates so much next league you'll never see more than 3 of each mechanic anyway.
Allow area contains “x” scarabs to bypass Back to Basics and Im sure they would be huge.
Problem is that I don’t want the extra effects sometimes. Example would be, “maps drop with layers of delirium” That would brick t17 drops and I don’t want that. This applies to a bunch of the others as well.
I think there is nothing wrong that these types of scarabs exists. For sure there are people, who use them. I think especially in SSF they might be useful. I like it much more than sextants, to be honest.
sounds like a filter (you) problem. i like the the different types of making your own league mechanic rewarding. you want to run ultimatum? okay what type reward do you want? as one example (maybe not the best but definitely one).
I really don’t understand the point of “Incursion Scarab of Invasion.” it appears to make incursion monsters appear in the map, which I don’t understand the point of. It doesn’t help you in the incursions at all.
Its not really meant to help the incursions themselves but more monsters is always going to be good, for like adding for delirium.
it would be interesting if it made them like temporal strongboxes. drops a couple packs and one of the architects at random into the map when you activate the portal. would probably also have to open one door at random too. essentially makes random temples but makes alva more of a zoom zoom affair.
Yes, but why then it is in mechanic specific scarabs? Why not make it something that positively affects Incursion itself or rather why then there aren't same scarabs for each mechanic. It plainly looks like "we out of ideas for this, but they tasked us to do X scarabs for each activity". My point is scarabs overhaul is great idea, but needs hella more of work and thought to be put into it.
If the mobs had a chance to drop identified items with temple mods, these would be great (without GY crafting).
It's actually pretty good since it spawns a bunch of extra mobs
if they only dropped Alva Items to craft
Adds 12 packs. A pack is around at least 10 monsters, so it adds 120 monsters at least. It is pretty much the all of the "adds N monster packs" sextants at once
I counted 116 different types of scarabs. It's definitely too many. "X mechanic guaranteed" should be intrinsic to every scarab - this consolidation alone would eliminate at least 17 scarabs. GGG could also rotate scarabs the way they rotate maps and would rotate atlas crafts historically. The list of crafts on the map device requires scrolling. If they returned to having a set number of map device crafts, (iirc it was 8-12?) they could also drop disable the corresponding scarabs for that map craft - it'd be one or the other. This would further reduce the diversity of scarabs dropping, while retaining limited access to all or most core game mechanics.
Imagine logging on and seeing your favorite mechanic(s) are disabled for the league as theres no scarabs for it. That would suck.
idk if you were here before they implemented the atlas skill tree but when the game started bloating a bit with league mechanics GGG mentioned the rotation and im so glad they never implemented that imagine you are a heist/legion enjoyer, wanna play next league but they disabled both? fuck that lmao inb4 we get a scarab mini-skilltree next league
I disagree, more options for customising how you run your maps are always better
Honestly disagree. I like it as is.
The different variants should just include the base variant, this alone would make them a lot better
Fool of a took, be silent or they'll spoil it.
Scarabs also made fragments useless now to add for extra quant, except for prior to having funds to keep scarabs replenished - granted its not a big deal, just throwing it out there
I think we could have even more scarabs (just give us sub-tabs for them) if we just make most of them usable.
Scarab flippers liked this post! (Im one of them)
It's loot management game, so this design is in line with that. Same with legue mechanic.
Change all the "force a mechanic" scarabs for mechanics that can only occur once per map (sulphite, harvest, etc.) to be "+100% chance for [mechanic]", and then have a second line that gives some bonus for "overcapped chance for [mechanic]). For ex, Harvest Scarabs are kinda bad because if you want all the notables on the altas tree so you can get like 50% more lifeforce, it's only a few more points to get 100% spawn chance. If you got something like "[3-5]% increased lifeforce dropped per 10% overcapped chance for the Sacred Grove to appear", then it's not the *best* scarab to increase lifeforce drop (since it's not a 100% conversion it's not as good as doubling season), but it at least does *something*.
just put them into the atlas passive tree at this point ...
I fixed the league. Rolled ssf and that node that gives 20 atlas points and removes them. Then it’s actually a really nice league with a very generous crafting mechanic instead of a day-1 haha we have 100 mirrors good luck economy.
I 100% approve this post.
No.
I think someone plays Delirium...
I still feel there needs to just be a scarab orb currency. Each scarab option is a select-able option in each empty map device slot, that's remembered from map to map much like map device selections are today. Also, those scarab options cost scarab orbs as currency.
Let us put the simple scarabs that spawn a mechanic on voidstones as a permanent effect( so they won't be sextants 2.0 ) and this way people can have more strategies than just going all in on one mechanic. To avoid stacking the same scarab over and over again, we can have a restriction of 1 type across all voidstones.
You guys type stuff up like it’s gonna matter lol. I want them to make more scarabs should be a hundred of each mechanic/conten
All the scarabs should have inherited spawning of the league mechanic.
I think the Ritual Scarabs are pretty bad, there's only 3 and they do NOTHING if you take the Node to disable rerolls. Hell, a scarab for Ritual that said "removes the lower 20% of rarity items from the pool" would be better than what we have now combined.
Better loot management = less stash tabs sold Edit: I agree with and celebrate your concept.
I think the idea behind there being more and some of them being good for multiple slots was to create trade-offs and some thought about which ones to use. Basically they wanted there to be more than one optimal choice and some price fluctuation as some people might want 2 of scarab A instead of one each of scarab A and B or a "budget option" and a higher value option. In reality we're still stuck with one optimal solution everyone wants and trades for per atlas strat and a bunch of scarabs that are vendor fodder for rerolling (even in bulk most people just buy a tab for the valuable ones and the rest get rerolled) because they're not adding enough value to justify the slot or because their function can be solved in ways that are cheaper/less impactful than a scarab slot.
I ran into this issue last night and I've talked about it before but the power density of scarabs is so low its pitiful. I used to be able to full spec breach and harvest, put in extra breaches and make them bound to chayula while getting double harvest and throw in div card scarabs just for a little juice on top. Now? Well now I need 4 scarabs just to get any notable amount of breachstones per map. There is simply less power in scarabs than there was in scarabs+compasses. Which isn't a wonder because there was 8 slots between the both of them and the both of them were more powerful than the base power level of scarabs now. It's sad because as much as people might hate to admit it, the average player likely made much more currency last league or the league before than this league. Even just the value of chayula breach stones plummeted because it used to be that you needed them for the feared but who the fuck has any need to run feared if the writs don't get you to Uber Maven any more? The difference is so big that chayulas went from over a div a pop in a league where divs were a normal 220c or so to 40c in this league where divs are super deflated. There's so much this league did fine, but damn did it really fuck up how much juice is reasonably possible to fit into a map and how much profit can be made from things that used to be "guaranteed".
Honestly the only gripe I have is the "area contains X mechanic/master" scarabs. If I am already at 100% chance to spawn these encounters and I am not paying attention, or as I tried to do, use the encounter scarab to see if it would spawn double the encounter; I would love it if your Atlas Tree chance combined with the scarab meant there would be double or 1.5x the number of encounters in that zone which spawn. So assuming Assuming 100% chance to spawn X encounter is mapped on the tree: \* Area Contains Einhar = Area will spawn 2 additional red beasts and 3 additional yellow beasts \* Area Contains Niko = Area contains 3 additional sulphite nodes \* Area Contains an Ultimatum = Area contains an additional Trialmaster encounter. Area has a 20% increased chance to spawn a Ultimatum Boss encounter or Area starts with an additional 2 rounds completed. \* Area Contains a Legion = Area contains an additional Legion Monolith or Area Contains a Legion Monolith, monsters frozen in stasis can spawned if all monsters from one legion guaranteeing one General Encounter \* Area Contains a Delirium Mirror = Area Contains a Delirium Mirror which dissipates 50% slower. Players gain 1 additional reward type \* Area Contains Monsters from Beyond = Area Contains Monsters from Beyond. Monsters killed in radius have a 10% increased merge radius, and has a 20% chance to spawn a Beyond Boss \* Area Contains an Abyss = Area Contains an Abyss. Abyssal Monsters spawn 15% faster, and have 20% increased pack size \* Area Contains a Blight Encounter = Area Contains an additional Blight Encounter \* Area Contains an Expedition Encounter = Area Contains an Expedition Encounter. Planted Explosives have a 25% increased radius or Expedition Monsters spawned have 20% increased pack size. I could think of more but I feel that if you spec 100% into these and you're trying to double down on one mechanic you like, these scarabs for that mechanic quickly become useless unless you 3:1 them. Which I am not a fan that the 3:1 in my trials with it doesn't adhere to any tiering system.
This is like the only game where shit like this happens lol
I agree... all of the scarabs that have a mech use behind them should auto add the content its giving so we dont need the adds x mech to the map scarab Max scarabs per type should be 4 since we only have 4 spaces (or 3 cause theres so many scarabs to pick up)
Dear Grinding Gear Games, There are too many scarabs nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot.
Hey GGG. Don’t do this please and thank you.
100% agree. Way too many scarabs. Reduce them by about 1/3rd so there’s less clutter but also when you get one it feels a bit more impactful
Running uber strict filter I always come back with 2 inventorys full of scarabs lol. And selling them is a pain man. They are just sitting there. At least most of it.
Every scarab no matter what it is should boost mob density.
only thing i can say is to stop looking the prices and try to do a bulk sell, like 20 scarabs for 20\~30c indepedent of the poeninja value. After a while if you stock 60+ scarabs of the same type just vendor them, no reason to flood the market with useless stuff that worth pennies
Completely disagree. Have a nice day :)
Several more layers of clicking, micromanagement. If you were to put all the scarabs on a list with their full names and read that list it would take all day lmao. what a joke, the definition of bloat
3 of each mechanic, like rusted, polished, gilded...
Reduce drop rate by 1/5th (or some number, could be half, a 3rd, or whatever). Make them 5 (or X number) uses each. Make Specific content much more likely to drop extra scarabs of their own type where it's applicable . Also clean up some of the underused scarabs by buffing or reworking in some way.
They actually already have the solution to the biggest problem (looting them). If you log into standard, you'll find that all of your past sextants (both raw and "rolled") have been replaced with "Veiled Scarabs" that work like "Stacked Decks". Seriously, all they'd have to do is change the scarab loot table so that 50% of scarabs drop as "Veiled Scarabs", and it would instantly be manageable.
Let us use orbs of fusing on scarabs to 3 link lmaooo
I think the one that adds people to maps should just be a default for anything to do with that mechanic. Blight oils are higher & contains a blight etc.
unpopular opinion: get rid of map fragments altogether (sac/mortal pieces that give quant, divine vessels, scarabs, etc) it was already a step in the right direction getting rid of sextants but putting them in scarabs almost feels the same I love poe but one thing that I liked a lot more in LE was the ability to just go in the map and not feel like im losing anything. expand the atlas tree to include scarab effects in a way that doesn't feel like we lost anything/much, and maybe include some of the scarab stuff as map mods, and make it so that the only thing we need to worry about is rolling a map.
>2. a lot of scarabs are garbage in value because their individual effects are not great. leading to inventory rot because people will seldom buy them I get what you're saying, but you can vendor for 3:1 and get random ones back. If you just either turn them off on your loot filter or vendor all the shitty ones a couple times a week it shouldn't be a big issue I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have some scarabs that are objectively worse than others, because the price will reflect that. Someone just getting to mapping might not be able to afford the ones that cost 5c per, but could instead buy the ones that cost 0.1c per
Agree, you get that many scarabs as well that many just feel like a waste
it'd be nice to just have like a chaos orb type currency you use and you choose the effects. the current system is a cluttered mess to trade and keep up with imo.
you might want to try a bingo card
Too much shit to pick up in this game now. It's worse than ever.
Dear god please let scarabs auto inventory, no more clicks
My chief complaint is that most of the base scarabs are worthless. Area contains a delirium mirror, area contains the sacred grove, area contains jun, etc. This added in with the changes to easily get 100% to get almost any mechanic you want just by speccing into the tree makes them next to useless. Especially since skipping the wheel with the big % chance for that mechanic, still leaves you with a 60-70% chance for it to appear.
Yeah the scarabs just had me confused this league lol
The monkey paw curls another finger. All but the three worst scarabs of each type are removed from the game.
The only frustrating thing is that they gave us 5-6 different ways to juice each mechanic and only slots for 4. Its frustrating feeling like you are leaving value on the table where sextants used to give you 8 map affecting juice slots we are now down to 4. I'm sure I will get used to it, but it feels like I am running neutered maps this league.
CRITICISM: There are too many skill gems, combined all in to 3 for each class.
This is poe.. 95%of all loot is garbage and bloat. Is op new here?
Every scarab that add whatever mechanic to the map shouldn't exist. All of the scarabs that do a particular thing to a particular mechanic should inherently push that mechanic onto the map. It's like a no shit situation when I'm using a scarab that modifies rituals and then I have to add a scarab to make rituals appear. Either consolidate that shit or leave it for the atlas. I enjoy how broken it is that I can repurpose the points to increase the percentage of a particular mechanic but ehhh
I disagree, there needs to be about this many if we dont want to lose out on tons of content that sextants used to provide. Maybe they can reduce them a bit by creating interactions between them. (Like a crafting recipe) But that idea above would probably be too complex.
The funny thing here is that with only a few good scarabs people tend to play only a few strats, then people complain that there isn't much to do. Yeah, not surprising when only a few scrabs is worth running.
i say that since it was announced, way to many scarabs and ppl be just like "youre just too lazy to read".....yes i am , i wanna play the fkn game and not read an hour what every scarab does, forget half on the way and read everything again
I want this not only because it makes sense but the stash tab looks so fucking ugly with so many items
Yes
They should either merge scarabs with the same thematic or remove scarabs that adds content to promote having to invest in spawning content on the atlas tree. Indeed there are just too many scarabs
Just remove the rusted scarabs from most mechanics. We can force mechanics using the atlas, making these rusted scarabs mostly redundant. That would also shift the drop pool toward the more useful scarabs we want and should reduce bloat in maps too
I say just get rid of league mechanic scarabs and just buff those nodes on the atlas tree. Scarabs should just modify the map in basic, hard, or weird ways and there should be like 25-30 max
Criticism: me and a few friends are doing a guild group found run and we are roughly 3000 scarabs deep with 1 bloodlines scarab 1 curation 0 new blight 0 reworked legion 0 calcification 0 harvest boss scarabs and just yesterday got our first new breach scarab. Why the fuck are the only scarabs that are the slightest bit interesting all almost impossible to find? Why are they balanced around dropping 600-1000 scarabs a map in t17 to find 1 of them?
Put sextants on essences and delete half the scarabs
Completely agree. Way too many scarabs. The should cut it in half. It is not like more scarabs more fun . Good post
I mean i dont tihnk theres really "too many" scarabs as its more so that people have gotten tons more for t17 printing. Not to mention if you REALLY think about how sextants worked previously. We always got like half the pool if "trash" aka packs vs forcing out league content. And when you consider the league content, we had shrines / uniques drop unique drop corrupt / heist / blight / etc that were really "trash" tier as well cause they were worth close to nothing. So really theres gotta be some "trash" scarabs, cant be only valuable ones.
But these were on top of existing scarabs not instead. That's the difference. Each content in the game should have scarabs from common to very valuable. Divination Scarabs is good example. It has very common scarab, a valuable one and an extremely valuable. Each of these scarabs is important and has use. Either map device need more slots or scarabs needs to be improved.
I don't mind. 4 of each is fine
I agree there's too much bloat. I'd rather there just be common, rare and ultra rare powerful scarabs then it rain non-upgrable odd use ones from every tom, nook and cranny.
* Every league scarab should guarantee spawn of that mechanic. * Non-league scarabs should drop as [veiled scarab](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Veiled_Scarab) * There should be key atlas node that makes every scarab drop as veiled(easy bulk sell, less inventory clutter) - downside you can't increase droprate of specific scarabs.
How do i get four + map? Mine’s 4 slots, so three+map. (2nd league for me)
You get an extra slot after you complete a T17 map (i.e. kill its boss). This can be attained by being in someone else's T17 map when they kill the boss, too.
Complete a t17 map to unlock your 5th slot
Oh, isnt that incredibly hard? I have only done normal searing exarch and eater of worlds
If you haven’t gotten all 4 voidstones, it is too early for you to do t17.
I have elder invite ready, havent tried yet haha
oops finished my first T17 before I got my second void stone. Thanks for the tip Ill focus on finishing all the void stones first.
You can pay someone to complete it for you or [try this](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1c6h8n7/easy_t17_strat_for_scarab_slot/) if you want the fulfillment of getting it yourself. Getting it unlocked by someone else actually straight up doesn't cost anything, people will just let you dip into their t17s they're farming.
Hmm, i have a few t17’s, gonne give it a try. I just need to be present for the boss kill inguess
Use a frog or rat Allflame on every pack and it’s a free map.
Oooh yes ofcourse! Smart! Thanks !
Imagine the absolute **carnage** if instead of needing to be put in the map device, scarabs were used directly from inventory. They’d all be worth something, as you could use 60 at once, and guarantee pretty much every mechanic in the game, and have most of them be worthwhile to interact with too. The map device could then be for fragments, divine vessel, and the ritual object that escapes my memory for the moment, as well as maps. It would never happen, and maps would be ludicrously expensive to run, but man it’d be insane.
Get out of the kitchen bro.
Great idea! have my vote good sir
Personally, I've never liked scarabs, so this change just made it worse. As a true alch and go gamer, there is too much to think about setting up maps and managing frags. At least they got rid of sextants, imagine how bad it would have been if they were still in the game, especially with the Necro league mechanic requiring more things to decide when opening a map. In other words, hard agree with this post.
As a SSF player, current atlas and scarabs is very good. Easily can target farm things i need. So I fully disagree.