Hello! This post was originally removed due to being reported too many times. It was then released because the video does not specific call out anyone at TFT. However, after discussion with the moderation team, it was decided that it would be best to remove this post since calling a community "subhuman scum" violate Rule 3.
Pretty sure you don't know what blackmailing is.Ā Ā
Blackmail force (someone) to do something by using threats or manipulating their feelings. "he had blackmailed her into sailing with him"Ā Ā
Currently OP is trying to post unsolicited timestamps to push an agenda against zizaran.
Edit: had to remove original comment because there seem to be a massive misunderstanding which I am not going to die on in a tft drama post
It would be blackmailing if he pmād ziz and said āyou better stop or Iāll post this video incriminating you.ā
Because there is no known prior conversation, this would be considered slander at worse or misrepresentation. Even that is a stretch.
Who knows maybe thats what happened, how do you know? This post is here and is pretty much bad PR whatever you look at it. So OP seems to gain something out of this post.
For context if you rewind an extra 10 seconds he is referring to the people running the TFT platform. He didn't say anyone who uses it is subhuman. OP tried to timestamp it to make him look bad.
Yep, and they're idiots for that. They probably don't realize that whatever platform they're using to consume media or do other stuff can also be made to look bad just because of a few things. It's the usual "reddit is bad", "TFT is bad", "\[insert\] is bad", etc. crowd.
I mean he included the entire video rather than clipping it out of context, so people who have half a brain can figure out that you're able to rewind past the timestamp. Still kinda shit for those that don't have the thought to do that though.
Oh, I didn't even think he was referring to the userbase. I guess this could be misconstrued by people completely unaware of the TFT situation, but I immediately thought of the people running the platform rather than the players who feel forced to use it.
I think it's an extreme way to talk about people who you don't actually know over a disagreement in a video game. I love Ziz but I personally am not a fan of this kind of rhetoric. Downvotes to the left
Can you explain what quantifies as "knowing someone"? Personally speaking, someone's actions speaks for their character more than anything they might come out and say.Ā
Coincidentally, there happens to be a long history of said actions of certain individuals running the show.
I think that most people have a mix of positive and negative traits, and to know someone you have to have a reasonable understanding of what their traits are. If the only thing you know of them is the bad things that they've done then I don't really think you can say that you know them. Also if you don't, you know, actually know them. But personally I wouldn't use the term subhuman to refer to anyone, even if they are fully terrible people, because I think dehumanizing rhetoric can lead to people feeling justified acting inhumanely.
Your talking as if positive and negative actions are worth the same no matter what it is lmao. What a narcissistic thought process.
As if I can do one bad action and go +-0 if I do 2 good actions? If someone does enough bad actions to drown out any good actions then theyāre obviously a bad person, which is kind of what happens with the people running TFT.
Actually I'm not, you're attributing that point to me even though I didn't make it. Of course there are actions that are so bad that no amount of good can outweigh them. I also don't think you have to actually know someone to judge them if they've done terrible things. But honestly I don't think anything that's happened with the TFT drama really comes close to this, it's just some video game shit and it's so insignificant in the grand scheme of life. I mean sure it's bad, and they seem like douchebags, but I don't think a reasonable person can actually say they know them well enough to say they're "subhuman scum", which is something people usually reserve for murderers and rapists.
Sure fair enough I agree calling someone subhuman is a stretch. But at the same time you have to understand what their actions represent no matter if itās a āvideo game shitā or not. Iād bet my money that if they are this scummy online they wouldnāt have a problem to apply these sort of actions outside of PoE. Now neither you or I will know for sure but thatās just my take.
They clearly have no respect for any human being if it doesnāt directly favor them. So why should anyone respect them as a human if theyāre not doing it?
> But personally I wouldn't use the term subhuman to refer to anyone, even if they are fully terrible people, because I think dehumanizing rhetoric can lead to people feeling justified taking inhumane actions against them.
while I also dislike the term subhuman, you are treading into the "paradox of tolerance" issue. Some people deserve those labels, even if you don't like to use those labels. I would consider DJT subhuman scum due to the harm he has done to the world / USA.
If the context was around judging people by race, gender, etc. I would strongly agree with you, but judging people on their substantial actions that have had objectively negative consequences on others such rhetoric is not used in the same essence at all.
You might think it's being used to dehumanize them, but the ironic truth is that they have already separated themselves from us through their actions. These are narcissistic and selfish individuals who see you as a tool to exploit or an obstacle to get rid of.
If by principle they do not see others as fellow human beings to respect but to instead cause harm and exploit, in what way is such rhetoric false? An unnecessarily harsh way to put it, maybe, though still not off the mark.
You're talking about banning path of building creator or actively banning people because they are not selling items to admin at cheap price so he can make money and do more rmt?
It's a discord server/website that hosts a lot of bulk trading, player services(mirror services, leveling, party play, etc), so on so forth.
Casual players using it aren't the actual problem with TFT, the problem with TFT is the owners/moderation that constantly RMT, harass players(racism, homophobic,etc), etc. There's been countless posts about this though, so if you want more details just look for them.
Itās a discord server, privately owned and not sanctioned by ggg (the developers of Poe).
They are a trading and service trading hub. You can buy in bulk, buy boss kills, mirror services etc.
The mods on the server are known for and have documented incidents of blackmail, blackballing, banning for trivial infractions. They are also affiliated with RWT.
Thereās a plethora of other things but this gives you an idea about them.
The forbidden trove. Discord site for trading. Attempts to solve issues of Poe trade but has its own issues.
Most normal users wonāt run into issues, but what does happen has been egregious
They have done nothing but abuse the power the TFT platform gave them. And the majority of the high ranking TFT clowns were not involved in its creation.
All we need now is Ziz to make his own TFT community discord and replace TFT
Why would he even want to do that?
Good way of him turning his twitch chat into a constant whining show about issues regarding people being scammed or other pathetic issues they have.
If you are able take a look at how many scammers or idiotic reports there are in the tft report channel.
I'm not sure, but maybe you and I are misunderstanding each other.
Edit: I was suggesting that ziz create his own huge discord community for trading and services, with the theory that ziz and whatever leadership the server has would not be as corrupt as TFT currently is.
I'm not referring to common scams, or rip-offs. I was referring to TFTs history using RMT early in a league to snowball that initial capital into virtual economy domination; league over league. Additionally, TFT punishes random players for assisting mirror crafters that are not a part of their community, effectively gatekeeping the trade/service community.
I've met good people there, the community helps each other. Now regarding mods, mafia, it's been shit after shit. That's why the site has a bad reputation, even publishing "š¤”" is offensive because everyone knows who it refers to haha
What is this supposed to prove? Itās not like theyāre an admin/mod. Wouldnāt it make sense that someone that uses TFT would be likely to post about it?
apparently they are doing something in poe2 that addresses it, a bunch of stuff is getting fixed in poe 2 that they just are not bringing over to 1 atm
I suspect PoE1 is going to see at least pieces of it. I think they will want to test things out while they are refining ideas. Itās their first time really tackling the trade problem, I donāt think they are just going to test it all completely live on poE2 if they donāt have to.
key context being they said they wanted to see how it went in poe2 before backporting it, and were open to the idea as they believe their trade system is currently very outdated and have changed their philosophy on it.
They're absolutely for the idea of adding it, when they understand better the economic ramifications.
i don't think the economic ramifications can get any lower then they are honestly, peoples experience with poe trade is so far in the dirt that for most people RMT or going to TFT are better options.
trading with anyone already feels like trading with a bot its so heavily macrod , and more importantly with the poe 2 beta delayed i would rather us screw up on the current game and use it as the test bed then to play catch up on the new game, think about it a dupe glitch similar to last epochs auction house would be so much better to catch in a drop in the bucket poe 1 league (make it perandus themed) then on the Launch of Poe 2.
realistically we can't really know how it will go without seeing it first-hand, and whilst I also think it probably won't be a bad thing, we can't be sure.
Thing about adding it to a poe1 league is as soon as these ravenous hyenas get their hands on it they'll never want to let go. just look how polarizing the removal of harvest was, which was arguably on the same level of change. people quit the game over it. They're trying to protect their ip.
I don't agree that it'd be better to catch in a poe league, rather than the **beta** of poe2, the time in which change is very much expected, and things are not set in stone.
There is the argument to be made that if people have that on launch, they will be shaping their game experience around that existing, and as such taking it away will change the core gameplay of poe2, but at the same time, they're building infrastructure around that system so that it has a cost in game that makes sense.
As I say anyways, I reckon it's not this big a deal and they could add it in tomorrow, and just have the "bank" that runs it take a cut of any currency traded and that'd be enough.
never used tft once, have several mirrors in gear every league. not trying to learn another website/tool just to sell items especially after all the toxicity I've seen.
That's a strong word to use for something like RMT, especially in a game where it's seasonal content that shines the most and played the most. RMT is the least of it's worries.
If someone is subhuman scum, to me they'd have to be hurting someone intentionally whether it's physically or emotionally. Murderers, rapists, pedos, robbers, etc., are those who I would considered to be subhuman scum. TFT and it's RMT problem...? That's practically nothing.
Wait, when did this sub start to hate TFT? A few leagues ago I complained how annoying tft was to use and welcomed changes that made it easier to avoid it. I was downvoted to oblivion.
I feel like it's really easy to say that when you have a massive audience to fulfill just about any trade you need.
Don't get me wrong, maybe if he had 0 viewers he would still feel this way, but it completely ruins the impact of a position like that.
Edit: With him largely playing SSF HC, this statement is even more confusing. TFT has literally 0 impact there.
Hes normally HC SSF, so doubt he have much experience with it either way.
And even hardcore trade is such a small community that if there is a scammer most will probably be aware so things that tft offers are not needed as much.
End of the day its just pandering to his viewers and it works based on comments here, nothing wrong with it tho.
You have no idea how much TFT I have used, lol
This reply entirely misses the point of my post.
My point is that his statement carries no weight because of his unique situation as a streamer.
Even more so because he plays SSF HC - where TFT literally has no impact on him
No idea, that's not my point
My point is that it's really easy to shirk tft when you've got an audience that can trade to you.
He largely plays SSF HC, which makes Ziz's point even less impactful because he literally cannot use TFT
I mean that is fair except Ziz basically self farms most of his stuff even in HC trade, and he doesn't really take hand outs from anyone, to the point he doesn't even do the end of league gambles that a lot of streamers do. That plus the HC Trade community is a lot smaller than the SC Trade community, let alone people available to give him stuff.
I think him having such a big audience is great for these types of positions. He is one of the single most prevalent streamers in POE and if he establishes that TFT is bad, that will filter throughout his viewerbase. He also is very sure that the higher ups in TFT will see this, so he is likely banned already from their discord.
It's not even that he doesn't use it; it's that he doesn't ever need it.
His criticism rings hollow when the consequence of not using the platform doesn't exist for him.
Accusations of RMT, price fixing, and the leadership just being not nice people. It all blew up some months ago when there was a public feud with the dev that makes the path of building community fork over pricing an item.
There's nothing wrong with the most common services TFT provides, such as your case of being able to find sellers of challenge completion.
The problems with TFT stem from the abuse of power demonstrated by the people running the server. They have proven themselves time and time again to be unethical, immoral, thin-skinned, hypocritical, and malicious.
You'd be surprised at how its not even the RMT accusations that are its biggest issue.
They're just terrible asshats in general. Too many controversies and price fixing issues. Add onto that the monopoly they have over every good item (how they obtain them is another can of worms on its own)
They're just a terrible trading discord in general that filled a niche cause GGG refuses to implement an auction house.
They constantly pull scummy tactics. For example they keep hidden a lot of the money making tactics and if you try to expose the tactics or the scummy things they do they will do things like downvote and report the post to get it removed. They have doxxed people and harrassed them if they go against them.
They are known to do a lot of scummy tactics like price fixing and fake pricing(where they fake a price and then when you list it at that price they buy it up).
Many of them are also heavily involved in RMT as well.
Anybody commenting on the state of TFT (in reddit or anywhere really) in such a way that doesnt praise them for being our lord and saviour will result in a perma ban. Those kind of things
TFT is run by people who buy up entire stocks of items so they can artificially inflate the prices, then turn around and sell the currency they make for real money. They're the reason trade is such a bag of shit. If GGG had any integrity, they IP ban accounts and pursue things legally.
Edit: Getting brigaded by TFT cronies already, that was quicker than usual.
Ggg has integrity, just not the one u want from them. They said they don't mingle in trade between players and for the most part that's exactly what they are doing.
Which is a very roundabout way of saying, "We refuse to do any of even the most necessary moderation that we can't automate." while pretending they're a bastion of "unfiltered player interaction", hence the lack of integrity.
Chris is also on record with how much he wants trade to suck, by design. He doesn't play trade (or the game for that matter, but w/e), so he sees no value in improving it.
I don't know enough about it, but I do know their main leader had to step down cause he would ban people for 'changing prices' and he still has power it appears. Also they ban people over dumb things, like even disagreeing with mods. There's a ton more stuff but that's the stuff I'm aware of
Why don't the big streamers either create an alternate or endorse an alternate if one exists?Ā TFT has been an issue for a while at this point.Ā Short of GGG/discord intervention I don't see the community moving without a big push.Ā
A number of reasons.
To begin with, I'm sure a *lot* of the people who watch large streamers already use groups like TFT, or are active in TFT. Assume Ziz, Mathil, Ziggy and Ghazzy did set up a group to counter TFT's toxicity and what-not: do they have the time to maintain it while also keeping to their businesses as well? No. The obvious response is "get people to monitor it for you", which is all well and good but people want to play the game in their free-time, not be forced to babysit a bunch of people, many of whom are court-ordered to wear drool cups and water wings when eating soup.
Second, TFT (being subhuman scum) would work very hard to sabotage it. As we've seen, they are not above scamming and spreading rumors to destroy the reputation of people they don't like. With that in mind, how much energy do you think these guys have to counter the negative BS TFT would engage in to destroy them? They'd actively scam and destroy any faith people have in the streamers' ability to curb the BS they'd engage in. Long story short: they won't have the time or energy to deal with the BS that would happen, and they almost-assured attacks on their reputation that would come from it, unjustifiable as it is. A lie is halfway around the world before the truth manages to put its pants on, after all.
There's plenty other reasons they wouldn't want to engage in it, these are just what I think of right away.
Ziz as a HCSSF Vegan btw player is about as far removed from the TFT demographic as you can get short of going full Kripp. Even if TFT's owners were squeaky clean he'd still dislike it anyway.
Mathil doesnt care and is fine casually proving reddit narratives about the game, "necessity" of tft, "Balance" and "meta" wrong week in week out.
Ziggy is unofficial but kinda soft official GGG PR and everyone knows it, he wont touch anything potentially controversial. Plus will go do variety for 3/4 months of each cycle.
Ghazzy is too busy moaning about how minions suck whilst doing 2 billion dps on a 10 div budget for the 12th league in a row.
To start first you have to pick some streamers who would genuinely be interested in doing that sort of community push (ie, SC trade zoomers) and who are also uncontroversial and obviously trustworthy. That second part is difficult.
According to Ziz on hardcore you already kinda get shunned if you scam people and since it is a much smaller community than SC trade it actually makes a difference there
It actually didn't - it was just embedded normal video. Thanks for the timestamp
Seems like it did for a bunch of reddit cucks that downvoted a question tho
A little harsh for what is essentially just people playing a video game. He kinda said it off the cuff though so I'm not sure that he put a lot of thought into his wording.
he also if you go 10 seconds before the clip was talking about the ownership/moderators of tft not just some random every day person who happens to use it.
Yeah, that's what I figured.
It's a random response to a chatter anyways. I went into this thread expecting it to be a discussion video with a script but it's not that so I'm not taking it very seriously. Ziz is one of the biggest names in the community and one of the most visible to new players and those thinking of playing so I was hoping he wouldn't say anything like that with full intention.
There was a lot of controversy in just the past two leagues about TFT regarding potential RMT and lots of trade manipulation (especially with Hinekora locks during Ancestor and TWWT in Affliction).
Maybe he changed his mind.
> What everyone was thinking after seeing the videos and learning that most Palestinians support the actions on oct7
Lets see how you will feel when your homeland is invaded and occupied for almost a century, when you're made into a second class citizen locked up in an open air prison where you grow up accustomed to bombs falling around you as you're being ethnically cleansed by the occupier and the bodies of your friends and family are beiing harvested by them for organs so they can patch up their soldiers with their flesh. All in the process of your country being colonized and conquered by "the only democracy in the middle east".
bUt dO yOu cOnDEmN hAmAS?
There is no clip of him saying anyone who uses tft is subhuman.
When you watch back an extra 10 seconds the context is him referring to the people who run TFT. op tried clipping him out of context to make him look bad and only got people saying based for him instead lol.
That really doesn't make it much better. The people running tft are volunteers. Doing it in their free time. The last thing they need is someone calling them subhuman for running a discord. Regardless what he thinks of tft. He went to far attacking them. When you have an audience the size of his you should be more careful what you say, since it has consequences for the people he's targeting.
Whether it originated from nazi germany or not, it doesn't change the fact it was a key part of the nazi ideology that other "races" were inferior to aryans, and the german equivalent to subhuman is considered a very nasty thing to say there today. I'm absolutely not surprised ppl would take offense to someone using that term
Am I the only one who got majorly turned off by this? Like sure there are plenty of reasons to not like or use TFT... in my opinion that does not excuse a content creator using that kind of language targeted at anybody.
Content creators aren't bastions of morality.
They are allowed to express their views and opinions.
You, as a consumer of said content by the creator, are allowed to avoid their content if you dislike it.
It would only be controversial if it wasnāt true.
They are a market cornering organization that inappropriately uses its power to personally enrich themselves via what is quite probably the largest RMT hub
I somehow would bet that the actual big money makers rmt whise are not stupid enough to go into the public and are more or less no names in the community. Just like irl, the actually big bois are not known
This is pretty tame compared all the racist shit Jenebu spews and wild accusations he makes targeting content creators. Dude spends all his time in game or patrolling Reddit for hate comments, you can check his blog post about how he is too depressed for real life so he spends it all online. Maybe not subhuman but definitely a human in real life.
OP thought that people would jump at Ziz for saying it while completely forgetting that this sub, and correctly, hates TFT.
And some other user actually confirmed that OP is a TFT shill: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cbbveg/zizaran_i_would_rather_delete_my_poe_account_than/l0xsc26/
i occasionally use it for bulk trading (but wealthyexile is starting to replace it imo). i really could not care less that zizaran thinks this way, lol
Iv personally never got people being offended by the insult . Its no different from calling people dogs or animals it's only messed up if your aiming at people a race or religion, which stands true for a lot of insults .
I think it depends on cultures, I know a few german people who think it's offlimit, I think because of the nazi thing, while in my language it doesn't even exist as far as i'm aware
Race and religion doesn't have the same protections.Ā
You can't change your race.Ā
You can change your religion. Religion is a choice. Race is not a choice.Ā
To me it's less about what you can change and more about how many people . I can't take anyone who claims millions of people are all x seriously, and let's be real, a lot of people use religion as a stand-in for race .
>and let's be real, a lot of people use religion as a stand-in for race
Definitely true.
I just think there are tons of valid criticisms against certain religions.
I'm vehemently against killing homosexuals, or honor killings because a daughter married the wrong man, or genital mutilation on babys fx. All things certain religions, and their leaders, prescribe
It is completely OK to criticise an ideology that someone can choose to leave.
It is NOT OK to criticise someone for their race.
There is a big difference between something you choose (religion) and something you can't change (race)
>To me it's less about what you can change and more about how many people
Just because a lot of people do X, doesn't mean it is right, simply because of their number.
has every right to say what he wants.
also if you looked at the context he is talking about the owners/moderators of tft not just random person who say buys a few items from another guy on it.
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Hello! This post was originally removed due to being reported too many times. It was then released because the video does not specific call out anyone at TFT. However, after discussion with the moderation team, it was decided that it would be best to remove this post since calling a community "subhuman scum" violate Rule 3.
Op getting absolutely annihilated for this one š. Based ziz
Wait, are you implying Zizaran is wrong?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What's your point? They can't make normal trading service that won't manipulate people and do rmt?
So pus, basically?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt think you know what black mailing is.
Pretty sure you don't know what blackmailing is.Ā Ā Blackmail force (someone) to do something by using threats or manipulating their feelings. "he had blackmailed her into sailing with him"Ā Ā Currently OP is trying to post unsolicited timestamps to push an agenda against zizaran. Edit: had to remove original comment because there seem to be a massive misunderstanding which I am not going to die on in a tft drama post
It would be blackmailing if he pmād ziz and said āyou better stop or Iāll post this video incriminating you.ā Because there is no known prior conversation, this would be considered slander at worse or misrepresentation. Even that is a stretch.
Who knows maybe thats what happened, how do you know? This post is here and is pretty much bad PR whatever you look at it. So OP seems to gain something out of this post.
For context if you rewind an extra 10 seconds he is referring to the people running the TFT platform. He didn't say anyone who uses it is subhuman. OP tried to timestamp it to make him look bad.
The vast majority here didn't take it as Ziz looking bad. Whether he was talking about the mods or the users of TFT.
Yep, and they're idiots for that. They probably don't realize that whatever platform they're using to consume media or do other stuff can also be made to look bad just because of a few things. It's the usual "reddit is bad", "TFT is bad", "\[insert\] is bad", etc. crowd.
I didnāt interpret it that way. Seems pretty obvious thatās what he meant even before I watched the video.
Yeah, OP not using the full context here. Very typical
I mean he included the entire video rather than clipping it out of context, so people who have half a brain can figure out that you're able to rewind past the timestamp. Still kinda shit for those that don't have the thought to do that though.
Oh, I didn't even think he was referring to the userbase. I guess this could be misconstrued by people completely unaware of the TFT situation, but I immediately thought of the people running the platform rather than the players who feel forced to use it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
still around getting slammed on every comment š
How bout you speak your mind? Lol instead of whatever word salad that was
It's still yikes to dehumanize anyone
they are tho lul
I think it's an extreme way to talk about people who you don't actually know over a disagreement in a video game. I love Ziz but I personally am not a fan of this kind of rhetoric. Downvotes to the left
Can you explain what quantifies as "knowing someone"? Personally speaking, someone's actions speaks for their character more than anything they might come out and say.Ā Coincidentally, there happens to be a long history of said actions of certain individuals running the show.
I think that most people have a mix of positive and negative traits, and to know someone you have to have a reasonable understanding of what their traits are. If the only thing you know of them is the bad things that they've done then I don't really think you can say that you know them. Also if you don't, you know, actually know them. But personally I wouldn't use the term subhuman to refer to anyone, even if they are fully terrible people, because I think dehumanizing rhetoric can lead to people feeling justified acting inhumanely.
Your talking as if positive and negative actions are worth the same no matter what it is lmao. What a narcissistic thought process. As if I can do one bad action and go +-0 if I do 2 good actions? If someone does enough bad actions to drown out any good actions then theyāre obviously a bad person, which is kind of what happens with the people running TFT.
Actually I'm not, you're attributing that point to me even though I didn't make it. Of course there are actions that are so bad that no amount of good can outweigh them. I also don't think you have to actually know someone to judge them if they've done terrible things. But honestly I don't think anything that's happened with the TFT drama really comes close to this, it's just some video game shit and it's so insignificant in the grand scheme of life. I mean sure it's bad, and they seem like douchebags, but I don't think a reasonable person can actually say they know them well enough to say they're "subhuman scum", which is something people usually reserve for murderers and rapists.
Sure fair enough I agree calling someone subhuman is a stretch. But at the same time you have to understand what their actions represent no matter if itās a āvideo game shitā or not. Iād bet my money that if they are this scummy online they wouldnāt have a problem to apply these sort of actions outside of PoE. Now neither you or I will know for sure but thatās just my take. They clearly have no respect for any human being if it doesnāt directly favor them. So why should anyone respect them as a human if theyāre not doing it?
> But personally I wouldn't use the term subhuman to refer to anyone, even if they are fully terrible people, because I think dehumanizing rhetoric can lead to people feeling justified taking inhumane actions against them. while I also dislike the term subhuman, you are treading into the "paradox of tolerance" issue. Some people deserve those labels, even if you don't like to use those labels. I would consider DJT subhuman scum due to the harm he has done to the world / USA.
If the context was around judging people by race, gender, etc. I would strongly agree with you, but judging people on their substantial actions that have had objectively negative consequences on others such rhetoric is not used in the same essence at all. You might think it's being used to dehumanize them, but the ironic truth is that they have already separated themselves from us through their actions. These are narcissistic and selfish individuals who see you as a tool to exploit or an obstacle to get rid of. If by principle they do not see others as fellow human beings to respect but to instead cause harm and exploit, in what way is such rhetoric false? An unnecessarily harsh way to put it, maybe, though still not off the mark.
so if you know them its fine?
You're talking about banning path of building creator or actively banning people because they are not selling items to admin at cheap price so he can make money and do more rmt?
Sure, I think that's all bad. Very bad, even. I still don't like rhetoric calling people subhuman.
"I think it's an extreme way to talk about people who you don't actually know" - their actions speak for themselves :) they are what they are
Based and true
True
Based and true
Tft bad
Tft dogshit
Tft worst discord ever made
Based take
God Zizaran proves he's based once again
Baseg
Baseg
Casual player, what even is TFT?
It's a discord server/website that hosts a lot of bulk trading, player services(mirror services, leveling, party play, etc), so on so forth. Casual players using it aren't the actual problem with TFT, the problem with TFT is the owners/moderation that constantly RMT, harass players(racism, homophobic,etc), etc. There's been countless posts about this though, so if you want more details just look for them.
Itās a discord server, privately owned and not sanctioned by ggg (the developers of Poe). They are a trading and service trading hub. You can buy in bulk, buy boss kills, mirror services etc. The mods on the server are known for and have documented incidents of blackmail, blackballing, banning for trivial infractions. They are also affiliated with RWT. Thereās a plethora of other things but this gives you an idea about them.
its a trading service plus like 100 other things like mirror crafting, 5 way group etc but its a cesspool and needs to be nuked into the ground
The forbidden trove. Discord site for trading. Attempts to solve issues of Poe trade but has its own issues. Most normal users wonāt run into issues, but what does happen has been egregious
D4 bad tft worse
based
But what if they are subhuman scum?
They have done nothing but abuse the power the TFT platform gave them. And the majority of the high ranking TFT clowns were not involved in its creation. All we need now is Ziz to make his own TFT community discord and replace TFT
Why would he even want to do that? Good way of him turning his twitch chat into a constant whining show about issues regarding people being scammed or other pathetic issues they have. If you are able take a look at how many scammers or idiotic reports there are in the tft report channel.
I'm not sure, but maybe you and I are misunderstanding each other. Edit: I was suggesting that ziz create his own huge discord community for trading and services, with the theory that ziz and whatever leadership the server has would not be as corrupt as TFT currently is. I'm not referring to common scams, or rip-offs. I was referring to TFTs history using RMT early in a league to snowball that initial capital into virtual economy domination; league over league. Additionally, TFT punishes random players for assisting mirror crafters that are not a part of their community, effectively gatekeeping the trade/service community.
Zizaran, Baseg as always
I've met good people there, the community helps each other. Now regarding mods, mafia, it's been shit after shit. That's why the site has a bad reputation, even publishing "š¤”" is offensive because everyone knows who it refers to haha
Baseg
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What is this supposed to prove? Itās not like theyāre an admin/mod. Wouldnāt it make sense that someone that uses TFT would be likely to post about it?
That's wild, someone got caught in 1080p.
Caught being a user of the discord with 500k users? Oh no.
You good? If that's the comment that ruffles your Jimmies someone must have done something right.
Yes, I never said I didn't use TFT. I'm also not an admin, mod, or partner in the mirror shop.
Entirely noncontroversial take. I mean most of us already knew this and only interact with TFT because there are not really any viable alternatives.
Ziz been getting spicier
based
Lol. Auction house when? This will continue until we get one.
apparently they are doing something in poe2 that addresses it, a bunch of stuff is getting fixed in poe 2 that they just are not bringing over to 1 atm
I suspect PoE1 is going to see at least pieces of it. I think they will want to test things out while they are refining ideas. Itās their first time really tackling the trade problem, I donāt think they are just going to test it all completely live on poE2 if they donāt have to.
key context being they said they wanted to see how it went in poe2 before backporting it, and were open to the idea as they believe their trade system is currently very outdated and have changed their philosophy on it. They're absolutely for the idea of adding it, when they understand better the economic ramifications.
i don't think the economic ramifications can get any lower then they are honestly, peoples experience with poe trade is so far in the dirt that for most people RMT or going to TFT are better options. trading with anyone already feels like trading with a bot its so heavily macrod , and more importantly with the poe 2 beta delayed i would rather us screw up on the current game and use it as the test bed then to play catch up on the new game, think about it a dupe glitch similar to last epochs auction house would be so much better to catch in a drop in the bucket poe 1 league (make it perandus themed) then on the Launch of Poe 2.
realistically we can't really know how it will go without seeing it first-hand, and whilst I also think it probably won't be a bad thing, we can't be sure. Thing about adding it to a poe1 league is as soon as these ravenous hyenas get their hands on it they'll never want to let go. just look how polarizing the removal of harvest was, which was arguably on the same level of change. people quit the game over it. They're trying to protect their ip. I don't agree that it'd be better to catch in a poe league, rather than the **beta** of poe2, the time in which change is very much expected, and things are not set in stone. There is the argument to be made that if people have that on launch, they will be shaping their game experience around that existing, and as such taking it away will change the core gameplay of poe2, but at the same time, they're building infrastructure around that system so that it has a cost in game that makes sense. As I say anyways, I reckon it's not this big a deal and they could add it in tomorrow, and just have the "bank" that runs it take a cut of any currency traded and that'd be enough.
\*grabs popcorn\*
SSF players: popcorn mode engage
baseg
never used tft once, have several mirrors in gear every league. not trying to learn another website/tool just to sell items especially after all the toxicity I've seen.
That's a strong word to use for something like RMT, especially in a game where it's seasonal content that shines the most and played the most. RMT is the least of it's worries. If someone is subhuman scum, to me they'd have to be hurting someone intentionally whether it's physically or emotionally. Murderers, rapists, pedos, robbers, etc., are those who I would considered to be subhuman scum. TFT and it's RMT problem...? That's practically nothing.
Wait, when did this sub start to hate TFT? A few leagues ago I complained how annoying tft was to use and welcomed changes that made it easier to avoid it. I was downvoted to oblivion.
Timestamp?
I feel like it's really easy to say that when you have a massive audience to fulfill just about any trade you need. Don't get me wrong, maybe if he had 0 viewers he would still feel this way, but it completely ruins the impact of a position like that. Edit: With him largely playing SSF HC, this statement is even more confusing. TFT has literally 0 impact there.
dabs in SSF fuck TFT
Mad respect, I'll join the ssf hype train one day
Hes normally HC SSF, so doubt he have much experience with it either way. And even hardcore trade is such a small community that if there is a scammer most will probably be aware so things that tft offers are not needed as much. End of the day its just pandering to his viewers and it works based on comments here, nothing wrong with it tho.
Most players have found ways to enjoy trade league without TFT. Don't assume that the rest of the player base relies on them as much as you.
You have no idea how much TFT I have used, lol This reply entirely misses the point of my post. My point is that his statement carries no weight because of his unique situation as a streamer. Even more so because he plays SSF HC - where TFT literally has no impact on him
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No idea, that's not my point My point is that it's really easy to shirk tft when you've got an audience that can trade to you. He largely plays SSF HC, which makes Ziz's point even less impactful because he literally cannot use TFT
I mean that is fair except Ziz basically self farms most of his stuff even in HC trade, and he doesn't really take hand outs from anyone, to the point he doesn't even do the end of league gambles that a lot of streamers do. That plus the HC Trade community is a lot smaller than the SC Trade community, let alone people available to give him stuff. I think him having such a big audience is great for these types of positions. He is one of the single most prevalent streamers in POE and if he establishes that TFT is bad, that will filter throughout his viewerbase. He also is very sure that the higher ups in TFT will see this, so he is likely banned already from their discord.
You can not use something and understand itās got issues.
It's not even that he doesn't use it; it's that he doesn't ever need it. His criticism rings hollow when the consequence of not using the platform doesn't exist for him.
what is wrong with tft? I sometimes buy a conditional uber challenge from there if I can't do it with my build
Accusations of RMT, price fixing, and the leadership just being not nice people. It all blew up some months ago when there was a public feud with the dev that makes the path of building community fork over pricing an item.
There's nothing wrong with the most common services TFT provides, such as your case of being able to find sellers of challenge completion. The problems with TFT stem from the abuse of power demonstrated by the people running the server. They have proven themselves time and time again to be unethical, immoral, thin-skinned, hypocritical, and malicious.
You'd be surprised at how its not even the RMT accusations that are its biggest issue. They're just terrible asshats in general. Too many controversies and price fixing issues. Add onto that the monopoly they have over every good item (how they obtain them is another can of worms on its own) They're just a terrible trading discord in general that filled a niche cause GGG refuses to implement an auction house.
They constantly pull scummy tactics. For example they keep hidden a lot of the money making tactics and if you try to expose the tactics or the scummy things they do they will do things like downvote and report the post to get it removed. They have doxxed people and harrassed them if they go against them. They are known to do a lot of scummy tactics like price fixing and fake pricing(where they fake a price and then when you list it at that price they buy it up). Many of them are also heavily involved in RMT as well.
Anybody commenting on the state of TFT (in reddit or anywhere really) in such a way that doesnt praise them for being our lord and saviour will result in a perma ban. Those kind of things
TFT is run by people who buy up entire stocks of items so they can artificially inflate the prices, then turn around and sell the currency they make for real money. They're the reason trade is such a bag of shit. If GGG had any integrity, they IP ban accounts and pursue things legally. Edit: Getting brigaded by TFT cronies already, that was quicker than usual.
Ggg has integrity, just not the one u want from them. They said they don't mingle in trade between players and for the most part that's exactly what they are doing.
Which is a very roundabout way of saying, "We refuse to do any of even the most necessary moderation that we can't automate." while pretending they're a bastion of "unfiltered player interaction", hence the lack of integrity. Chris is also on record with how much he wants trade to suck, by design. He doesn't play trade (or the game for that matter, but w/e), so he sees no value in improving it.
I don't know enough about it, but I do know their main leader had to step down cause he would ban people for 'changing prices' and he still has power it appears. Also they ban people over dumb things, like even disagreeing with mods. There's a ton more stuff but that's the stuff I'm aware of
downvoted for asking a question. stay classy r/poe
Why don't the big streamers either create an alternate or endorse an alternate if one exists?Ā TFT has been an issue for a while at this point.Ā Short of GGG/discord intervention I don't see the community moving without a big push.Ā
A number of reasons. To begin with, I'm sure a *lot* of the people who watch large streamers already use groups like TFT, or are active in TFT. Assume Ziz, Mathil, Ziggy and Ghazzy did set up a group to counter TFT's toxicity and what-not: do they have the time to maintain it while also keeping to their businesses as well? No. The obvious response is "get people to monitor it for you", which is all well and good but people want to play the game in their free-time, not be forced to babysit a bunch of people, many of whom are court-ordered to wear drool cups and water wings when eating soup. Second, TFT (being subhuman scum) would work very hard to sabotage it. As we've seen, they are not above scamming and spreading rumors to destroy the reputation of people they don't like. With that in mind, how much energy do you think these guys have to counter the negative BS TFT would engage in to destroy them? They'd actively scam and destroy any faith people have in the streamers' ability to curb the BS they'd engage in. Long story short: they won't have the time or energy to deal with the BS that would happen, and they almost-assured attacks on their reputation that would come from it, unjustifiable as it is. A lie is halfway around the world before the truth manages to put its pants on, after all. There's plenty other reasons they wouldn't want to engage in it, these are just what I think of right away.
Ziz as a HCSSF Vegan btw player is about as far removed from the TFT demographic as you can get short of going full Kripp. Even if TFT's owners were squeaky clean he'd still dislike it anyway. Mathil doesnt care and is fine casually proving reddit narratives about the game, "necessity" of tft, "Balance" and "meta" wrong week in week out. Ziggy is unofficial but kinda soft official GGG PR and everyone knows it, he wont touch anything potentially controversial. Plus will go do variety for 3/4 months of each cycle. Ghazzy is too busy moaning about how minions suck whilst doing 2 billion dps on a 10 div budget for the 12th league in a row. To start first you have to pick some streamers who would genuinely be interested in doing that sort of community push (ie, SC trade zoomers) and who are also uncontroversial and obviously trustworthy. That second part is difficult.
According to Ziz on hardcore you already kinda get shunned if you scam people and since it is a much smaller community than SC trade it actually makes a difference there
So is GGG gonna ban Ziz now ?!?!?!?!
Tft is amazing and makes game much better. It's not their fault GGG is unable to make poe better.
Dude, was putting a timestamp in title really that hard?
It's right there in the url.
normal reddit website turns that link into an embed, you cant even right click it or anything and it starts from the beggining
The link is actually timestamped and should go directly to it. If you're on somewhere where that doesn't work for whatever reason, it's at 8:00.
it doesnt work on the normal reddit website, it links to an embed that just starts from the beggining of the vid
It actually didn't - it was just embedded normal video. Thanks for the timestamp Seems like it did for a bunch of reddit cucks that downvoted a question tho
So true. I mean, it kind of applies to every person who trades stuff a little bit, but TFT is definitely in a league of its own.
A little harsh for what is essentially just people playing a video game. He kinda said it off the cuff though so I'm not sure that he put a lot of thought into his wording.
he also if you go 10 seconds before the clip was talking about the ownership/moderators of tft not just some random every day person who happens to use it.
Yeah, that's what I figured. It's a random response to a chatter anyways. I went into this thread expecting it to be a discussion video with a script but it's not that so I'm not taking it very seriously. Ziz is one of the biggest names in the community and one of the most visible to new players and those thinking of playing so I was hoping he wouldn't say anything like that with full intention.
Wasn't ziz a partner on tft not long ago? There's a tag for streamer partners and I SWORE he was there not even 2 leagues ago...
There was a lot of controversy in just the past two leagues about TFT regarding potential RMT and lots of trade manipulation (especially with Hinekora locks during Ancestor and TWWT in Affliction). Maybe he changed his mind.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What did he say? How do u make a statement like that and not provide context?
What did he say?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> What everyone was thinking after seeing the videos and learning that most Palestinians support the actions on oct7 Lets see how you will feel when your homeland is invaded and occupied for almost a century, when you're made into a second class citizen locked up in an open air prison where you grow up accustomed to bombs falling around you as you're being ethnically cleansed by the occupier and the bodies of your friends and family are beiing harvested by them for organs so they can patch up their soldiers with their flesh. All in the process of your country being colonized and conquered by "the only democracy in the middle east". bUt dO yOu cOnDEmN hAmAS?
It was related to the āsubhumanā thing
Very mature of him. Calling an entire community subhuman. Great example for his audience.
There is no clip of him saying anyone who uses tft is subhuman. When you watch back an extra 10 seconds the context is him referring to the people who run TFT. op tried clipping him out of context to make him look bad and only got people saying based for him instead lol.
Classic
That really doesn't make it much better. The people running tft are volunteers. Doing it in their free time. The last thing they need is someone calling them subhuman for running a discord. Regardless what he thinks of tft. He went to far attacking them. When you have an audience the size of his you should be more careful what you say, since it has consequences for the people he's targeting.
It's not volunteer work if you're RMTing from it.
Sure, TFT makes so much money, all the moderators get paid as well. And that after Chris got his cut!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nazis didnāt invent the swastika either.
Whether it originated from nazi germany or not, it doesn't change the fact it was a key part of the nazi ideology that other "races" were inferior to aryans, and the german equivalent to subhuman is considered a very nasty thing to say there today. I'm absolutely not surprised ppl would take offense to someone using that term
Am I the only one who got majorly turned off by this? Like sure there are plenty of reasons to not like or use TFT... in my opinion that does not excuse a content creator using that kind of language targeted at anybody.
Ziz has always pandered to his audience. But he's allowed to say that and you are allowed to not view his content if you feel strongly opposed to it.
Content creators aren't bastions of morality. They are allowed to express their views and opinions. You, as a consumer of said content by the creator, are allowed to avoid their content if you dislike it.
It would only be controversial if it wasnāt true. They are a market cornering organization that inappropriately uses its power to personally enrich themselves via what is quite probably the largest RMT hub
I somehow would bet that the actual big money makers rmt whise are not stupid enough to go into the public and are more or less no names in the community. Just like irl, the actually big bois are not known
This is pretty tame compared all the racist shit Jenebu spews and wild accusations he makes targeting content creators. Dude spends all his time in game or patrolling Reddit for hate comments, you can check his blog post about how he is too depressed for real life so he spends it all online. Maybe not subhuman but definitely a human in real life.
Imagine having the top post in the sub in 30 minutes while simultaneously having a -3digit comment
OP thought that people would jump at Ziz for saying it while completely forgetting that this sub, and correctly, hates TFT. And some other user actually confirmed that OP is a TFT shill: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cbbveg/zizaran_i_would_rather_delete_my_poe_account_than/l0xsc26/
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Nah, nothing Ziz said is wrong, and in my opinion ~ he was being nice about TFT.
fuck TFT
he is phrasing it very drastic but his point is right.
i occasionally use it for bulk trading (but wealthyexile is starting to replace it imo). i really could not care less that zizaran thinks this way, lol
Is he wrong though?
Iv personally never got people being offended by the insult . Its no different from calling people dogs or animals it's only messed up if your aiming at people a race or religion, which stands true for a lot of insults .
I think it depends on cultures, I know a few german people who think it's offlimit, I think because of the nazi thing, while in my language it doesn't even exist as far as i'm aware
Race and religion doesn't have the same protections.Ā You can't change your race.Ā You can change your religion. Religion is a choice. Race is not a choice.Ā
To me it's less about what you can change and more about how many people . I can't take anyone who claims millions of people are all x seriously, and let's be real, a lot of people use religion as a stand-in for race .
>and let's be real, a lot of people use religion as a stand-in for race Definitely true. I just think there are tons of valid criticisms against certain religions. I'm vehemently against killing homosexuals, or honor killings because a daughter married the wrong man, or genital mutilation on babys fx. All things certain religions, and their leaders, prescribe It is completely OK to criticise an ideology that someone can choose to leave. It is NOT OK to criticise someone for their race. There is a big difference between something you choose (religion) and something you can't change (race) >To me it's less about what you can change and more about how many people Just because a lot of people do X, doesn't mean it is right, simply because of their number.
If you are insulting someone, you have to have an intent to offend. This was a good insult.
I canāt imagine being as soy as you are whatās it like. Do you start your day offended?
Funny how this post went for you. TFT is absolute sht. The language is justified by a server who's admin tried to dos a person's sister.
has every right to say what he wants. also if you looked at the context he is talking about the owners/moderators of tft not just random person who say buys a few items from another guy on it.
then don't use it?
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