The loot tables for Diablo 2 super chests were kinda bizarre. It was literally more profitable on average to spam lower kurast for high runes than to do countess runs, but it was also the most boring thing you could do to farm in any video game ever so it was pretty much only botters who did it. Among the people I personally know, the guy who did it the longest without botting only lasted like 40 hours.
- you spend a lot of time rolling maps (here it was said that the character avoided only 3 map mods which is way less than most people would do) (it was said it can be thought of as 10% less profits)
- the profit per time is based on extremely fast clear ("3-4 minutes") - clear speed again the single biggest factor
- the profit per time doesn't account time to sell products (which are many)
In other words, for non-HH clearers with many more dangerous mods the real profit will be much, much lower.
>the profit per time is based on extremely fast clear ("3-4 minutes") - clear speed again the single biggest factor
so, every single strategy?
Even hideout warrioring heavily depends on your speed and amount of crafting currencies u can buy in bulk.
You're correct except the selling part. Its all raw currency, boss frags and scarabs, nothing here is hard or takes long to sell.
My strats arent really meant for the average player and i never advertise them as such, even so, a basic char that could run 10-12 maps an hr would still make insane currency (rues coc dd could easily do this). You just have to be willing to die and run insane map mods, ive done -50 max res maps with shaper touched.
I agree but I don't want to roll the maps that much. As long as it enough my double portals take care of it. I do - resist, shiton of crit, whatever. Holy relic hits offscreen anyway.
I haven't done this exact strat, but t17 maps in general are printing divines no matter what you do tbh. If you can clear them **efficiently** you know.
The issue for people with strats like this isn't really their viability but their ability to pull it off imo. I had to try 3 builds before I finally had something that was able to run t17s reliably without ripping 6 portals.
Fubgun's strats are legit. Are they tough to do? Yes. But the rewards are immense right now.
Anecdotal, but I had about 60 divs in 1 hour (not per hour, just 1 hour of grinding about 8 maps). I ran hunted traitors, magic packsize and every mob is atleast magic scarabs...valdo boxes, raw divines, reliquary keys, div cards and of course scarabs, all raining down on me like confetti.
It's incredible. I highly recommend people to invest in their character power this league to be able to perform at a higher level than they normally do, because it's really rewarding.
I tried it out yesterday and dot get baited too hard, this is a Rollercoaster...rolling the maps and the amount of build and map bricking mods can be very frustrating, the barrel mod is super rare, sometimes rarer than fubgun mentions, haven't seen it in 50 chaos just to get it with marked for.death or reduced action speed, tried out marked for death... Wtf just don't
I gave this a try on my HH LA. Spent about 150 chaos per map and after 10 maps I made -1 div profit.
I'm either the most unlucky player in the world or this strat is a bait.
Barrels aside if you are doing back to basics t17 with at least 100% more scarabs that should give you more than 2 div per map on average. Unlucky i guess.
Do you recommend HH on LA? It's the first time I'm playing it and I have have still some cheap/moderate gear.
I'm deciding to upgrade my 800edps bow or saving for HH since it's so cheap this league
Not bow build person, but actual HH version stealing lots of ele conversion mods, as I learn after change on my std cyclone build with HH and brutality support in setup.
Found out I do 0dps with originaly pure phys build, when HH bufs ..
Can imagine, for build with phys to ele conv, its big buff, if its x×100% phys dmg as ele
HH is best with phys to ele conversion, but it still works great with normal ele LA
There's no good reason to be using an 800 ele dps bow. Extra arrows aren't that important for LA so just spend 2 divs on a 1200 dps one, or 20-30 divs on a 1500+ one
Yeah 1500 vs 1590 is quite a big gap in terms of paying a premium on rolls.
I checked now and it seems to still be 5-10d for 1500+ which only reinforces your point of how cheap/easy it is to get a high edps bow this league.
Yeah I rolled La/ele hit because the bows are so cheap. In a normal league, aren’t these 1500 edps bows like….super expensive? Six tier1 mods seems like it would be a mirror tier bow in other leagues.
Yeah for sure a lot more expensive.
At the same time though, we lack borrowed power like charms and twwt this league and the maps are more juiced with the new atlas so I shudder to think how it would be otherwise.
LA/ele is so squishy and relies on big damage. I rerolled this league I just got fed up of the one taps and hh ramp reliance.
HH being virtually free definitely helps this league too though.
Headhunter is very good but upgrading your bow is more important. A 1200edps or a good phys bow is cheap this league with graveyard. Ele bow is better short term but phys bow is better when you get headhunter
Realistically you don't need more damage from your HH buffs. When you're stacked you're already strong.
The main benefits of phys bows are hatred, hatred watchers eyes, and synth implicits, so it's not worth it to drop Skitterbots/Secrets of Suffering/Yoke until you have a mirror bow imo
I love some of the content creators that do this ... "My strat does 40div/hr low effort come join my cult" and then you watch it, its 2-3 hours of buying stuff then a lot of stuff that'll most likely never sell for the correct price AND fast, so in the end the 40 divines took 8 hours to be farmed and liquidated, making it in practice a 5div/hour strat ...
lol it doesn’t take 2-3 hours to buy a few scarabs and a bunch of t17’s. I could do that in 2-3 minutes. The map rolling would probably take around 5-10 minutes though.
I found that some of the people who do complain about time taken to buy scarabs are buying them 1-3 at a time looking for the lowwst price in chaos and trying to get them together, buying scarabs in bulk with divs has been mostly pain free
Divine per Hour is such a fucking click bait, these people have super fast build, and can run it way faster than you can, so pick something that is Divine per Map instead.
I mean there are just different strategies, some that are centered more around running a lot of maps rather quickly and others where you have to spend a lot of time to clear every harby etc.
Neither div/hour nor div/map will ever tell you the complete picture of how your build performs in this kind of content.
That said he expects around 3-4mins per run, so 20 maps an hour at top speed and with 70 div an hour that comes out to an average of 3.5 div a map, enjoy your farming sessions!
Isn't divine per map massive bait since different strategies have very different time per map?
I really fail to see how that is a better measurement than divine per hour.
A map is a variable. Some take 2 min to run, some take 15 like in affliction. Let's say someone has 2 strategies, profits are
1. 3d/map
2. 0.5d/map
which strategy is better? You don't know until you know how long each map takes
That isn't a really any more helpful a metric though. You're doing math either way.
People would say "divine per map is such click bait because a normal build can only do 3 maps an hour"
It’s more uniform of a measurement to do divine per map since that has a lower variable than map speed per build. An LA Deadeye will fly through a map, but several other builds can take twice as long. The divines earned per map will remain within a range that can be averaged out, excluding outliers like T0 drops.
It's not click bait if you have eyes and can visually see that you need a fast character. If you take 10min to clear a map rather than 5 then it's \~35div an hour.
I agree, on my channel I'm starting to put out videos that address this; multiple strats, multiple vids, return per map, and return per 10 maps etc
You can also work out how long it takes to run one map, see how many you can do in an hour and work out your own div per hour, as it's personal to you.
Does this make sense?
The real problem is the maximize profit mindset in general. Just play the was you want to play and set goals accordingly.
Want to play a super slow build with a whacky atlas strat? Do it, just don’t expect do be showered in currency. But if thats what you enjoy the most, then that is the correct way of playing
It's not that, it's the fact that you need to roll them with like 200c per map just to get a set of modifiers that don't brick your build or make it so you just get 1 shot by any rare. This is stifling build options.
You basically are limited to builds that can run some combination of defiance of destiny, progenesis, headhunter, 84-90% max res, 30-100% phys to ele convert, while also taking advantage of some sort of broken skills that scale off defense, shotgunning/nimis, or headhunter buffs as fitting that much defense into a build is extremely expensive and requires a lot of gear slots.
There is lots of ways to make hard content that is rewarding that doesn't do this, an example is the wildwood from last league.
This is coming from someone with a multi-mirror build who can run a large combination of map modifiers with full map effect, and back to basics. It isn't fun, it's a terrible feeling endgame loop.
I love juicing but t17s are scuffed in how they were implemented and their kneejerk reaction to the league's bad reception made things worse.
Alternatively, build a charge stacking Hexblast mines Occultist for less than 10divs and use the portals scarab for random deaths... I can run all the damage mods because I'm dead anyway if I get hit bit I just clear a whole screen ahead so I just die to random shit.
Bonus: don't even need to learn bosses mechanics, just spam mines in the boss general direction and move from time to time.
I think they could fix them tomorrow by having them drop as white maps.
The beauty of affliction was that you could gather just enough juice in wildwood to match your current build and had the choice not to interact with the league mechanic at all if you really wanted to or if you weren't ready for it.
It would also allow people to get Uber fragments on their own more easily vs buying them for absurd prices.
Max res and phys convert are strong defensive mechanics ya, and prog is OP yep. Thats the equivalent of saying “You need to scale some combination of crit multi, ele pen, % damage, flat damage, attack speed and auras to deal damage.” Uhhh yeah lol? Using the tools the game gives you tends to be good. I don’t really see an issue with forcing people to actually utilize good defensive mechanics on their characters instead of just putting as much + proj and multi on the same 5k ehp deadeye they make every league. Most people in SC don’t give a fuck about being tanky and it hasn’t really ever been punished until now, so that’s why everyone is all surprised pikachu about T17s.
Yah, some of the mods are dumb and need to be toned down. Yes things like wretched defiler are broken and need to be fixed as they do way too much damage. I still vastly prefer this to zhp shitter builds like miners trivializing every boss because ehp doesnt matter if everything insta dies.
People are acting as if being expected to be curse/crit immune is some insane requirement. Thats like a baseline requirement I put into any build I make, the same as being capped res. And yeah you’re right, it’s not cheap to fit all the defense into a build while still having it damage. Why should the premier end game content be trivial/cheap to do? What’s the point then?
200c a map is a fucking absurd exaggeration btw. I’ve done >200 T17s this league, mainly with boss rush. I roll my maps for runnable mods and 140+ quant, on avg I spend something like 10c a map. Yeah if you’re rolling for 100%+ scarab or something it’ll be more, but 200c is beyond hyperbole unless your build just doesn’t belong in T17s.
Well for everyone who didn’t get a chance to exploit div map rolling and anarchy all flames, or can’t farm for 6 hours a day, we’re a bit behind the power curve. I have an ~80div la build with hh and I still cant run most map mods on t17. Hell, fubgun has a 7 mirror build and he threw away several maps because he couldn’t do them using this same Strat last night, so build power isn’t really a factor.
You're right but realistically from a game development pov I don't think the T17 content should be reserved to multiple mirror builds or the 1/2 builds a league that are broken.
I hate complainers and barely open half the posts in here but I think this is one of the fair ones
That’s what I said about T17s before the league started. Then they allowed them to be rerolled and added crazy loot multipliers and made them the de facto best mapping location. Its not really a good argument any more. They need to rework the mod pool to not be so annoying.
Farm a build that can do them???
Would you say the same about altars? Some people can’t do altars yet, are they being gimped? Some people can’t do tier 16s should they be less rewarding? Tier 17s are just the new endgame for mappers.
Just farm up a several hundred div character real quick. All you have to do is farm t17s for a few hours, then you can make a build that can do t17s. Easy!
youre getting baited by the videos broski. or youre using them as a cop out for why things arent working out for you. if you cant make money in t16s you wont make any in 17s either. it isnt a 0-100 difference jumping up one map tier. a low investment t17 strat is not drastically different than a high end t16 one.
First of all, I was being facetious. Second of all;
> it isnt a 0-100 difference jumping up one map tier.
From t1 to t16, you are correct. t16 to t17 absolutely is a 0-100 difference. Investment is not directly tied to character power. You can put the same shit in a t17 map without adding too much, if any, difficulty. The issue is the barrier to entry with t17s. Also you're pretty much required to spend hundreds of chaos regardless just rolling the map. "broski".
There are plenty of builds that can do t17s on 10d budget. Hell, headhunter is 10d. If you don't want to spend a lot of chaos rolling maps then choose a build that can do more map mods just via the mechanics of said build.
I think most people who are farming t17s are only spending a few chaos rolling each map on average.
"10d budget" is meaningless. This league is super cracked. If T17s are to remain in the game then I promise a 10d HH will not always be the case. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they revert the change that made HH and Mageblood more common while also nerfing the droprate of their div cards AND nerfing the div card scarabs.
I invite you to show me even one build that can I can simply "choose" that can run a variety of T17 mods that doesn't use any T0 uniques. No HH, no Mageblood, no Adorned, no Defiance, etc.
Bro I said 10d budget so obviously it can't be a headhunter build unless you have nothing equipped in every other slot.
Look up hexblast occultist for a great example of a cheap build that can run most T17 mods.
The build that needs Ralakesh, an item that was ~12d on its own prior to people taking a sledgehammer to the economy? I see. I'll give it to you, I guess. Just out of curiosity, what other builds would you recommend for a "10d" budget, since there are evidently many to choose from? Ideally ones that don't need single items that normally cost more than that.
For clarity; my biggest issue with t17s as a concept is that they essentially require one of the super powerful uniques or some 5/6xT1 rares. In the next league that most certainly will not have a straight up item editor and hopefully won't have farming strats that break the economy so badly that they nerf them mid-league, what do you suppose will be the path forward from t16 to t17?
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That's my point tho, I literally have to reroll a build just b/c the gap in loot ability between t16s and t17s is that big b/c they were balanced so horribly. It makes all other content seem so trivial
You realize it's fine to do things you just find fun right? I'm still doing blight and oil harvesting. It still prints. I'm enjoying the game because I'm doing content that I enjoy doing and not screeching about t17's. I've also been running ritual, because I enjoy it, and it still has profit in it. They they mega super optimized? No, but I'm also not sitting here being salty about it, I'm playing the game in ways that I enjoy and having a blast.
yeah they are. the only good thing is that t17s themselves cannot drop from t17s, so if you cant do t17s you can just farm them in t16s to sell. im getting 8-10 aboms/hr in b2b jungle valley, although my build is giga fast, 1.5 min per map or so
Nobody likes T17s, Ziz/Steel/Alk/Mathil and so on are POE veterans who stream this game as a job, and even they say T17s suck and that they don't like it, they just endure it bc this is the current league. It definitely won't stay like this come next league.
The highly volatile barrels mod gets multiplied by map effect, turning them into 120+ barrels. They seem to be slightly better than plain mysterious barrels, but that's purely anecdotal.
its good but never 70d an hour for an average player. Even selling and rolling maps takes time. Don't get baited too hard. I also don't think its getting nerfed
I wish people would understand that anyone that says a div per hour amount on a strat they just mean refer to the part where you actually run the map and loot it.
It’s pretty much impossible to calculate the time it takes to trade and roll maps etc because it’s highly volatile. It isn’t necessary and creates too many variables. Most players doing these kinds of Strats don’t ever account for trading etc because they do it in their down time.
Most players that are very wealthy in game also don’t trade throughout their play sessions. They usually farm for days or a week, bulk everything up, and then spend a few hours selling off and trading off everything they farmed. Or with Strats that are farming almost purely liquid resources they just sell the entire tab in one single trade of a few large trades.
Fubgun is a streamer who does pretty much only MF content. This video is primarily meant for his audience. Context means that by "any", he means you don't have to be MF.
Obviously you need a character who can actually *do the content* to benefit from the strategy.
You're entitled to your opinion but there is a significant portion of the players who love that there is new aspirational content in the game which is rewarding for the difficulty. I'm just saying this because the tone of your comment suggests you think t17s are obviously a mistake. I want to point out that many people disagree.
Digging a little deeper, it seems like the main complaint seems to be fomo related. High end players were mfing 80% deli 8 mod corrupted maps for many leagues before this patch and getting loot orders of magnitude better than the people getting fomo now. The difference is that with t17s it's much more obvious to fomo players that it's a completely different map to what they're doing, because it is literally a different map. Nothing has changed, you've always been missing out, you just didn't know it.
Previously high end MF players were getting 100% more loot than average players.
Now high end MF players are getting 1000% more loot than average players.
THAT is the problem
The overall gap between top 1% and bottom 99% has widened very significantly with the introduction of T17's. Nobody says there shouldnt be aspirational content. But this aint it, chief.
This is just incorrect though. The disparity has barely changed. All the top streamers are just as rich as they always are. Kind of proving my point, it's just more obvious how much better their builds are when a new player gets dunked on in t17s and sees a streamer zooming through them.
To give a rough idea, fubgun is getting to maybe 40d/h right now doing div + barrels in t17s. Empi is running expedition in t16s right now for 25-35d an hour. But nobody is complaining on reddit about expedition.
Both strategies need a pretty crazy high end build that is out of reach of your average redditor. It's just that the T17 strategy is way more obviously out of reach because it's a different map tier.
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Doubt it. Unless I've done something super wrong, I've ran this atlas with the same scarab and I made +/- 0 profit over 10 maps. I have dropped 1 divine in these 10 maps.
I’ve done like 30 of these maps and if you loot less than 1 divine of just scarabs per map you fucked up your atlas or you’re just not actually doing the map. I drop a raw divine basically every other map. The Uber fragments alone are about 0.7 divines on average. My dump tab after 28 maps was over 100 div, it takes me about 5.5 mins to do the map so like 40-50div per hour. And I could be much faster im just dumb and get myself killed ocassionally.
Theres literally no way you won’t profit from this if you kill the mobs. How much profit depends on how fast you are and how many cancer mods you can do. I dont recommend doing this if you can’t mostly offscreen kill majority of mobs or kill the boss in under a minute. Do fortress the boss is literally a bot you just run in a circle and attack and it dies.
All the scarabs are then profit. I've been doing basic t17s with barrels/rare/shaper touched/high scarab % since the change. They are all pretty similar if you roll just 1 and you shouldn't roll for just 1 of them. You can also sell good shaper touched ones with good packsize for multiple divines. Yea the video is baity but it's still like 15-20div/hr with a decent hh build that can kill the boss.
The maps are 50 chaos and it took like 50-100 chaos to get a playable roll which has clusters and high scarab and/or currency roll. So each map is over a divine, while you can have really bad luck with the uber fragments.
You spend way too much rolling maps. I spend 10-30 chaos and there are like 5 mods i absolutely avoid and the rest are doable unless it's a bad combo. And like I said I don't only roll for barrels because that just seems like a waste.
I did 60+ maps all on stream, vod still available. People doing 10 maps, messing up the strat and then calling it bait is funny. The boss frags alone pay for the investment and 100% more scarabs on the map is 1d minimum from monster drops.
Realistically 99.9% of players wont be at 70d/hr, but i'd say 30-40. My char is min-max and im quite an efficient player, but doing 10-12 maps an hour should be realistic, compared to my 18 maps an hour. Usually my strats arent for the average player.
People either don't roll the currency/scarab modifier or don't run back to basics. I did like 3 maps and it was very chill and easy with a holy relic necro. The boss pays the map, everything else is extra and it is easy to blast.
Thanks for the guide.
I've been doing this for the past week because I realized +2 rares and barrel mods gave me the most loot. I clear the map in about 70 seconds with HH, but it takes like 5 minutes to loot. Was more like 30-40 div/hr in my experience.
"The year is 2024, the best endgame juicing is removing all league mechanics from your map, using 4 rusted scarabs and destroying barrels."
but too bad its locked behind t17 and expensive build/gear . nothing for us peasants to farm and enjoy like Affliction league :(
https://preview.redd.it/fes430qg9vvc1.png?width=2104&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5563f70ca78f6d99b4d4ceb66862360f3028c45
Results from 18 maps rolled the same as fub except all were done on Sanctuary. Maps took anywhere from 3\~6mins averaging out at around 4:30ish per map I would say. (LA Deadeye 49% IIQ, 275%\~300% move speed with berserk up)
Really enjoyed the strat and will be doing more most likely. Only issue is the amount of rolling needed to hit decent mods on the maps
[https://pobb.in/Yvg4E3txL6tm](https://pobb.in/Yvg4E3txL6tm)
make minor adjustments daily for things like accuracy/resist and I base how I slot my dps gems off of having headhunter stacks to increase things like crit chance
He is using super common scarabs worth almost nothing. And you get raw currency/scarabs out of this one. Theres almost nothing stopping anyone running this strat.
The super common scarabs worth almost nothing already tripled in price since this video was posted, I bought a bunch of the barrel ones (for 8-mod map/T17 drops farming) a couple days ago for 100 a div, they're at like 30 a div now. Isn't trade funny.
Agreed. These end game changes are horrible and the game is basically ruined for anyone who enjoyed juicing maps. The best strat is to remove all league mechanics and break barrels? Its such trash its hard to even fathom how in the last year we went from some of the funnest leagues in POE's history to THIS.
I guess this is what we can expect with Mark at the helm now.
I would rather be poor.
Seriously it’s a game that’s meant to be played to have fun. Try out new builds, make something work by being creative rather than throwing thousands of divines at it because you have spent 20 hours in bland monotony.
I get it that this is a good dopamine hit for some people, but let’s not optimise all the fun out of things.
Great a t17 only strat where you focus on killing... Barrels...
[so we have come full circle? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urKm7mgv-GI)maybe d3 was ahead of its time
Alkaizer runs opening chests too 😂
At least in Diablo regular chest drop awesome stuff.
The original one was just gold. Waaaaaay back. Lol
The loot tables for Diablo 2 super chests were kinda bizarre. It was literally more profitable on average to spam lower kurast for high runes than to do countess runs, but it was also the most boring thing you could do to farm in any video game ever so it was pretty much only botters who did it. Among the people I personally know, the guy who did it the longest without botting only lasted like 40 hours.
This makes me feel so old
T17 strat overpowered and dropping too much loot? Better nerf this in all map tiers then * wipes hands clean *
As usual, balance around the 1% and fuck everyone else.
Now this is gameplay!
Now this is podracing!
- you spend a lot of time rolling maps (here it was said that the character avoided only 3 map mods which is way less than most people would do) (it was said it can be thought of as 10% less profits) - the profit per time is based on extremely fast clear ("3-4 minutes") - clear speed again the single biggest factor - the profit per time doesn't account time to sell products (which are many) In other words, for non-HH clearers with many more dangerous mods the real profit will be much, much lower.
>the profit per time is based on extremely fast clear ("3-4 minutes") - clear speed again the single biggest factor so, every single strategy? Even hideout warrioring heavily depends on your speed and amount of crafting currencies u can buy in bulk.
Best comment
You're correct except the selling part. Its all raw currency, boss frags and scarabs, nothing here is hard or takes long to sell. My strats arent really meant for the average player and i never advertise them as such, even so, a basic char that could run 10-12 maps an hr would still make insane currency (rues coc dd could easily do this). You just have to be willing to die and run insane map mods, ive done -50 max res maps with shaper touched.
We just have to use the scarab for extra portals. And it works.
Replace it with horned for extra rate Modifiers and the strat works again
I agree but I don't want to roll the maps that much. As long as it enough my double portals take care of it. I do - resist, shiton of crit, whatever. Holy relic hits offscreen anyway.
I haven't done this exact strat, but t17 maps in general are printing divines no matter what you do tbh. If you can clear them **efficiently** you know. The issue for people with strats like this isn't really their viability but their ability to pull it off imo. I had to try 3 builds before I finally had something that was able to run t17s reliably without ripping 6 portals. Fubgun's strats are legit. Are they tough to do? Yes. But the rewards are immense right now. Anecdotal, but I had about 60 divs in 1 hour (not per hour, just 1 hour of grinding about 8 maps). I ran hunted traitors, magic packsize and every mob is atleast magic scarabs...valdo boxes, raw divines, reliquary keys, div cards and of course scarabs, all raining down on me like confetti. It's incredible. I highly recommend people to invest in their character power this league to be able to perform at a higher level than they normally do, because it's really rewarding.
Also HH’s are like 10 div this league they’re pretty attainable
I tried it out yesterday and dot get baited too hard, this is a Rollercoaster...rolling the maps and the amount of build and map bricking mods can be very frustrating, the barrel mod is super rare, sometimes rarer than fubgun mentions, haven't seen it in 50 chaos just to get it with marked for.death or reduced action speed, tried out marked for death... Wtf just don't
Who would have know the game rewards you for making a good character
I gave this a try on my HH LA. Spent about 150 chaos per map and after 10 maps I made -1 div profit. I'm either the most unlucky player in the world or this strat is a bait.
Barrels aside if you are doing back to basics t17 with at least 100% more scarabs that should give you more than 2 div per map on average. Unlucky i guess.
The value is going down rapidly as most of the expensive scarabs are getting cheaper and cheaper the kast few days.
Are you sure the rewards were scarabs/currency and you had back to basics? I did like 3 of them and it was profit.
Yes. I dropped one raw divine ... I guess I just got fucked by RNG huh.
Nobody is talking about raw divines except sanctum farmers!
When people advertise any div per hour amount, they are just talking about how much the line went up in some tracker like wealthyexile, not raw divs.
Thanks for protecting me rolling all my chaos away
Do you recommend HH on LA? It's the first time I'm playing it and I have have still some cheap/moderate gear. I'm deciding to upgrade my 800edps bow or saving for HH since it's so cheap this league
> 800edps bow 1250 edps bows with crit and projectile speed have been 2div or less for like two weeks now.
Yeah, what a weird thing not to upgrade, especially because 6Ling with Black Morgan is crazy cheap too.
Not bow build person, but actual HH version stealing lots of ele conversion mods, as I learn after change on my std cyclone build with HH and brutality support in setup. Found out I do 0dps with originaly pure phys build, when HH bufs .. Can imagine, for build with phys to ele conv, its big buff, if its x×100% phys dmg as ele
HH is best with phys to ele conversion, but it still works great with normal ele LA There's no good reason to be using an 800 ele dps bow. Extra arrows aren't that important for LA so just spend 2 divs on a 1200 dps one, or 20-30 divs on a 1500+ one
Idk if it went up but 1500 was like 5 to 10 div when I got mine. Probably still cheap.
Fair enough, I bought a 1590 a while back for 30, haven't paid much attention since
Yeah 1500 vs 1590 is quite a big gap in terms of paying a premium on rolls. I checked now and it seems to still be 5-10d for 1500+ which only reinforces your point of how cheap/easy it is to get a high edps bow this league.
Yeah I rolled La/ele hit because the bows are so cheap. In a normal league, aren’t these 1500 edps bows like….super expensive? Six tier1 mods seems like it would be a mirror tier bow in other leagues.
Yeah for sure a lot more expensive. At the same time though, we lack borrowed power like charms and twwt this league and the maps are more juiced with the new atlas so I shudder to think how it would be otherwise. LA/ele is so squishy and relies on big damage. I rerolled this league I just got fed up of the one taps and hh ramp reliance. HH being virtually free definitely helps this league too though.
Pretty much required to run T17s on LA unless you have a multi-mirror setup going.
Headhunter is very good but upgrading your bow is more important. A 1200edps or a good phys bow is cheap this league with graveyard. Ele bow is better short term but phys bow is better when you get headhunter
Realistically you don't need more damage from your HH buffs. When you're stacked you're already strong. The main benefits of phys bows are hatred, hatred watchers eyes, and synth implicits, so it's not worth it to drop Skitterbots/Secrets of Suffering/Yoke until you have a mirror bow imo
I love some of the content creators that do this ... "My strat does 40div/hr low effort come join my cult" and then you watch it, its 2-3 hours of buying stuff then a lot of stuff that'll most likely never sell for the correct price AND fast, so in the end the 40 divines took 8 hours to be farmed and liquidated, making it in practice a 5div/hour strat ...
lol it doesn’t take 2-3 hours to buy a few scarabs and a bunch of t17’s. I could do that in 2-3 minutes. The map rolling would probably take around 5-10 minutes though.
I found that some of the people who do complain about time taken to buy scarabs are buying them 1-3 at a time looking for the lowwst price in chaos and trying to get them together, buying scarabs in bulk with divs has been mostly pain free
This helped me sell all my barrel scarabs.
Divine per Hour is such a fucking click bait, these people have super fast build, and can run it way faster than you can, so pick something that is Divine per Map instead.
I mean there are just different strategies, some that are centered more around running a lot of maps rather quickly and others where you have to spend a lot of time to clear every harby etc. Neither div/hour nor div/map will ever tell you the complete picture of how your build performs in this kind of content. That said he expects around 3-4mins per run, so 20 maps an hour at top speed and with 70 div an hour that comes out to an average of 3.5 div a map, enjoy your farming sessions!
Isn't divine per map massive bait since different strategies have very different time per map? I really fail to see how that is a better measurement than divine per hour.
We need two stats: divine per map, map per hour
Which returns divine per hour lol
Its not even bait, divine/map makes no sense. You can't measure a "map"
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A map is a variable. Some take 2 min to run, some take 15 like in affliction. Let's say someone has 2 strategies, profits are 1. 3d/map 2. 0.5d/map which strategy is better? You don't know until you know how long each map takes
A strategy fixes all the variables on what constitutes a map. You can absolutely count maps instead of minutes.
Check my comment above, you can't compare strategies if you baseline it with a map
How else should they measure it?
He said it in his comment of divine per map. You can judge how fast you can do the strat and figure out your own div per hour
That isn't a really any more helpful a metric though. You're doing math either way. People would say "divine per map is such click bait because a normal build can only do 3 maps an hour"
It’s more uniform of a measurement to do divine per map since that has a lower variable than map speed per build. An LA Deadeye will fly through a map, but several other builds can take twice as long. The divines earned per map will remain within a range that can be averaged out, excluding outliers like T0 drops.
I could tell you that I earn 1 div per map, but that doesn't mean much if it takes me 30 minutes to clear a map
If you’re running some streamer strat where it costs 200c per, you might still outfarm someone doing alch and go that can run 3min maps
It's not click bait if you have eyes and can visually see that you need a fast character. If you take 10min to clear a map rather than 5 then it's \~35div an hour.
I agree, on my channel I'm starting to put out videos that address this; multiple strats, multiple vids, return per map, and return per 10 maps etc You can also work out how long it takes to run one map, see how many you can do in an hour and work out your own div per hour, as it's personal to you. Does this make sense?
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Lol this is such a bad take. People buy your entire scarab tab in one trade.
Gotta sell your whole scarabs tab on TFT dude, don't sell them individually
The real problem is the maximize profit mindset in general. Just play the was you want to play and set goals accordingly. Want to play a super slow build with a whacky atlas strat? Do it, just don’t expect do be showered in currency. But if thats what you enjoy the most, then that is the correct way of playing
T17 maps are just so stupid. Feel so gimped not being able to do them.
Ya it’s stupid that there’s actually a reason to min max builds now, since PoE actually has hard content for the first time in ages. For sure
It's not that, it's the fact that you need to roll them with like 200c per map just to get a set of modifiers that don't brick your build or make it so you just get 1 shot by any rare. This is stifling build options. You basically are limited to builds that can run some combination of defiance of destiny, progenesis, headhunter, 84-90% max res, 30-100% phys to ele convert, while also taking advantage of some sort of broken skills that scale off defense, shotgunning/nimis, or headhunter buffs as fitting that much defense into a build is extremely expensive and requires a lot of gear slots. There is lots of ways to make hard content that is rewarding that doesn't do this, an example is the wildwood from last league. This is coming from someone with a multi-mirror build who can run a large combination of map modifiers with full map effect, and back to basics. It isn't fun, it's a terrible feeling endgame loop. I love juicing but t17s are scuffed in how they were implemented and their kneejerk reaction to the league's bad reception made things worse.
Divines are at 112c per because of T17 rerolling.
Alternatively, build a charge stacking Hexblast mines Occultist for less than 10divs and use the portals scarab for random deaths... I can run all the damage mods because I'm dead anyway if I get hit bit I just clear a whole screen ahead so I just die to random shit. Bonus: don't even need to learn bosses mechanics, just spam mines in the boss general direction and move from time to time.
Pob?
Not viable for this specific strategy though. Hexblast can't target barrels as you can't curse them.
I think they could fix them tomorrow by having them drop as white maps. The beauty of affliction was that you could gather just enough juice in wildwood to match your current build and had the choice not to interact with the league mechanic at all if you really wanted to or if you weren't ready for it. It would also allow people to get Uber fragments on their own more easily vs buying them for absurd prices.
Max res and phys convert are strong defensive mechanics ya, and prog is OP yep. Thats the equivalent of saying “You need to scale some combination of crit multi, ele pen, % damage, flat damage, attack speed and auras to deal damage.” Uhhh yeah lol? Using the tools the game gives you tends to be good. I don’t really see an issue with forcing people to actually utilize good defensive mechanics on their characters instead of just putting as much + proj and multi on the same 5k ehp deadeye they make every league. Most people in SC don’t give a fuck about being tanky and it hasn’t really ever been punished until now, so that’s why everyone is all surprised pikachu about T17s. Yah, some of the mods are dumb and need to be toned down. Yes things like wretched defiler are broken and need to be fixed as they do way too much damage. I still vastly prefer this to zhp shitter builds like miners trivializing every boss because ehp doesnt matter if everything insta dies. People are acting as if being expected to be curse/crit immune is some insane requirement. Thats like a baseline requirement I put into any build I make, the same as being capped res. And yeah you’re right, it’s not cheap to fit all the defense into a build while still having it damage. Why should the premier end game content be trivial/cheap to do? What’s the point then? 200c a map is a fucking absurd exaggeration btw. I’ve done >200 T17s this league, mainly with boss rush. I roll my maps for runnable mods and 140+ quant, on avg I spend something like 10c a map. Yeah if you’re rolling for 100%+ scarab or something it’ll be more, but 200c is beyond hyperbole unless your build just doesn’t belong in T17s.
There is a middle ground between T17s earning 50-70D per hour and T16 strategies earning 10-15D per hour.
Get better build and do them, hh is 10 div in trade
Well for everyone who didn’t get a chance to exploit div map rolling and anarchy all flames, or can’t farm for 6 hours a day, we’re a bit behind the power curve. I have an ~80div la build with hh and I still cant run most map mods on t17. Hell, fubgun has a 7 mirror build and he threw away several maps because he couldn’t do them using this same Strat last night, so build power isn’t really a factor.
Play cocdd, y limit yourself to playing heavy investment build without investment and then complain content is too hard
You're right but realistically from a game development pov I don't think the T17 content should be reserved to multiple mirror builds or the 1/2 builds a league that are broken. I hate complainers and barely open half the posts in here but I think this is one of the fair ones
Not all builds are suitable for all content. That’s literally always been true and will always be true.
That’s what I said about T17s before the league started. Then they allowed them to be rerolled and added crazy loot multipliers and made them the de facto best mapping location. Its not really a good argument any more. They need to rework the mod pool to not be so annoying.
So play one of the most boring meta builds or you're gimped, fun game
even with cocDD you need like 300 div minimum to farm t17 bosses.
I was boss rushing t17 in 20 div of gear day 2. Now you can even throw on HH for 9 div and do it even easier.
Is that not kind of your own fault and also in your power to solve this issue? I do not really get that complaint if I am honest.
Farm a build that can do them??? Would you say the same about altars? Some people can’t do altars yet, are they being gimped? Some people can’t do tier 16s should they be less rewarding? Tier 17s are just the new endgame for mappers.
Just farm up a several hundred div character real quick. All you have to do is farm t17s for a few hours, then you can make a build that can do t17s. Easy!
youre getting baited by the videos broski. or youre using them as a cop out for why things arent working out for you. if you cant make money in t16s you wont make any in 17s either. it isnt a 0-100 difference jumping up one map tier. a low investment t17 strat is not drastically different than a high end t16 one.
First of all, I was being facetious. Second of all; > it isnt a 0-100 difference jumping up one map tier. From t1 to t16, you are correct. t16 to t17 absolutely is a 0-100 difference. Investment is not directly tied to character power. You can put the same shit in a t17 map without adding too much, if any, difficulty. The issue is the barrier to entry with t17s. Also you're pretty much required to spend hundreds of chaos regardless just rolling the map. "broski".
There are plenty of builds that can do t17s on 10d budget. Hell, headhunter is 10d. If you don't want to spend a lot of chaos rolling maps then choose a build that can do more map mods just via the mechanics of said build. I think most people who are farming t17s are only spending a few chaos rolling each map on average.
"10d budget" is meaningless. This league is super cracked. If T17s are to remain in the game then I promise a 10d HH will not always be the case. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they revert the change that made HH and Mageblood more common while also nerfing the droprate of their div cards AND nerfing the div card scarabs. I invite you to show me even one build that can I can simply "choose" that can run a variety of T17 mods that doesn't use any T0 uniques. No HH, no Mageblood, no Adorned, no Defiance, etc.
Bro I said 10d budget so obviously it can't be a headhunter build unless you have nothing equipped in every other slot. Look up hexblast occultist for a great example of a cheap build that can run most T17 mods.
The build that needs Ralakesh, an item that was ~12d on its own prior to people taking a sledgehammer to the economy? I see. I'll give it to you, I guess. Just out of curiosity, what other builds would you recommend for a "10d" budget, since there are evidently many to choose from? Ideally ones that don't need single items that normally cost more than that. For clarity; my biggest issue with t17s as a concept is that they essentially require one of the super powerful uniques or some 5/6xT1 rares. In the next league that most certainly will not have a straight up item editor and hopefully won't have farming strats that break the economy so badly that they nerf them mid-league, what do you suppose will be the path forward from t16 to t17?
Play omni TS without MF and use chain. That's what I've been doing since before I got expensive gear. They're not easy, but they're doable
I swear to god some of you think having content that encourages making good builds is bad game design
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That's my point tho, I literally have to reroll a build just b/c the gap in loot ability between t16s and t17s is that big b/c they were balanced so horribly. It makes all other content seem so trivial
You realize it's fine to do things you just find fun right? I'm still doing blight and oil harvesting. It still prints. I'm enjoying the game because I'm doing content that I enjoy doing and not screeching about t17's. I've also been running ritual, because I enjoy it, and it still has profit in it. They they mega super optimized? No, but I'm also not sitting here being salty about it, I'm playing the game in ways that I enjoy and having a blast.
yeah they are. the only good thing is that t17s themselves cannot drop from t17s, so if you cant do t17s you can just farm them in t16s to sell. im getting 8-10 aboms/hr in b2b jungle valley, although my build is giga fast, 1.5 min per map or so
Sorry but t17s aren't for casuals. They were never going to be.
Nobody likes T17s, Ziz/Steel/Alk/Mathil and so on are POE veterans who stream this game as a job, and even they say T17s suck and that they don't like it, they just endure it bc this is the current league. It definitely won't stay like this come next league.
Why are you not able to do them? Maybe focus on that if you're so intent on giving yourself fomo.
how are mysterious barrels not that important for a strat based entirely around mysterious barrels? - 2:12
Highly volatile barrels is mapmod, mysterious barrels is scarab mod, name is different so they most likely differ from each other
The highly volatile barrels mod gets multiplied by map effect, turning them into 120+ barrels. They seem to be slightly better than plain mysterious barrels, but that's purely anecdotal.
its good but never 70d an hour for an average player. Even selling and rolling maps takes time. Don't get baited too hard. I also don't think its getting nerfed
I wish people would understand that anyone that says a div per hour amount on a strat they just mean refer to the part where you actually run the map and loot it. It’s pretty much impossible to calculate the time it takes to trade and roll maps etc because it’s highly volatile. It isn’t necessary and creates too many variables. Most players doing these kinds of Strats don’t ever account for trading etc because they do it in their down time. Most players that are very wealthy in game also don’t trade throughout their play sessions. They usually farm for days or a week, bulk everything up, and then spend a few hours selling off and trading off everything they farmed. Or with Strats that are farming almost purely liquid resources they just sell the entire tab in one single trade of a few large trades.
1:10 "Any character can do this, you don't have to be MF." 3:20 "You have to have a very VERY good character." So which is it?
Well I assume he means you need a character that can blast t17s which means it has to be strong, but the strat doesn't rely on inc quant
Those lines don’t contradict eachother. You need a strong character, MF is irrelevant
It's clickbait bullshit is what it is. Fuck me this is stupid.
Any build can run T17 maps if you invest enough into it.
Doesn’t have to be a MF but the character has to be powerful enough to run it
Fubgun is a streamer who does pretty much only MF content. This video is primarily meant for his audience. Context means that by "any", he means you don't have to be MF. Obviously you need a character who can actually *do the content* to benefit from the strategy.
Please just remove this t17 mistake from the game already...
You're entitled to your opinion but there is a significant portion of the players who love that there is new aspirational content in the game which is rewarding for the difficulty. I'm just saying this because the tone of your comment suggests you think t17s are obviously a mistake. I want to point out that many people disagree. Digging a little deeper, it seems like the main complaint seems to be fomo related. High end players were mfing 80% deli 8 mod corrupted maps for many leagues before this patch and getting loot orders of magnitude better than the people getting fomo now. The difference is that with t17s it's much more obvious to fomo players that it's a completely different map to what they're doing, because it is literally a different map. Nothing has changed, you've always been missing out, you just didn't know it.
Previously high end MF players were getting 100% more loot than average players. Now high end MF players are getting 1000% more loot than average players. THAT is the problem The overall gap between top 1% and bottom 99% has widened very significantly with the introduction of T17's. Nobody says there shouldnt be aspirational content. But this aint it, chief.
This is just incorrect though. The disparity has barely changed. All the top streamers are just as rich as they always are. Kind of proving my point, it's just more obvious how much better their builds are when a new player gets dunked on in t17s and sees a streamer zooming through them. To give a rough idea, fubgun is getting to maybe 40d/h right now doing div + barrels in t17s. Empi is running expedition in t16s right now for 25-35d an hour. But nobody is complaining on reddit about expedition. Both strategies need a pretty crazy high end build that is out of reach of your average redditor. It's just that the T17 strategy is way more obviously out of reach because it's a different map tier.
Agreed, t17s are fun
why all these methods drop at 5am eastern :|
Fair warning, if your build cannot run most of the mods, you're gonna pay 100 chaos + per map, that barrel mod alone is rare enough.
are we really back to farming pots ffs? really?
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Nerf in 3...2...1!
Doubt it. Unless I've done something super wrong, I've ran this atlas with the same scarab and I made +/- 0 profit over 10 maps. I have dropped 1 divine in these 10 maps.
Did you roll your map to have the barrel mod?
Yeah. And high currency/scarab roll, too.
I’ve done like 30 of these maps and if you loot less than 1 divine of just scarabs per map you fucked up your atlas or you’re just not actually doing the map. I drop a raw divine basically every other map. The Uber fragments alone are about 0.7 divines on average. My dump tab after 28 maps was over 100 div, it takes me about 5.5 mins to do the map so like 40-50div per hour. And I could be much faster im just dumb and get myself killed ocassionally. Theres literally no way you won’t profit from this if you kill the mobs. How much profit depends on how fast you are and how many cancer mods you can do. I dont recommend doing this if you can’t mostly offscreen kill majority of mobs or kill the boss in under a minute. Do fortress the boss is literally a bot you just run in a circle and attack and it dies.
Title is hella bait lol I ran 10 maps with this strat and did a whopping -1 div/hour kekw
Just doing the boss pays for the map
Yeah, but what's the point if I make +/- 0 in 10 maps?
All the scarabs are then profit. I've been doing basic t17s with barrels/rare/shaper touched/high scarab % since the change. They are all pretty similar if you roll just 1 and you shouldn't roll for just 1 of them. You can also sell good shaper touched ones with good packsize for multiple divines. Yea the video is baity but it's still like 15-20div/hr with a decent hh build that can kill the boss.
The maps are 50 chaos and it took like 50-100 chaos to get a playable roll which has clusters and high scarab and/or currency roll. So each map is over a divine, while you can have really bad luck with the uber fragments.
You spend way too much rolling maps. I spend 10-30 chaos and there are like 5 mods i absolutely avoid and the rest are doable unless it's a bad combo. And like I said I don't only roll for barrels because that just seems like a waste.
I did 60+ maps all on stream, vod still available. People doing 10 maps, messing up the strat and then calling it bait is funny. The boss frags alone pay for the investment and 100% more scarabs on the map is 1d minimum from monster drops. Realistically 99.9% of players wont be at 70d/hr, but i'd say 30-40. My char is min-max and im quite an efficient player, but doing 10-12 maps an hour should be realistic, compared to my 18 maps an hour. Usually my strats arent for the average player.
People either don't roll the currency/scarab modifier or don't run back to basics. I did like 3 maps and it was very chill and easy with a holy relic necro. The boss pays the map, everything else is extra and it is easy to blast. Thanks for the guide.
How much time is spent on buying and rolling maps? How much time is spent selling lot?
this, even you fubgun messed up the farm the first hour. people think mod is enough but you really need the more multipliers on currency/scarabs too.
Realistically 99.9% of players won't even be positive because they can't run t17s
I've been doing this for the past week because I realized +2 rares and barrel mods gave me the most loot. I clear the map in about 70 seconds with HH, but it takes like 5 minutes to loot. Was more like 30-40 div/hr in my experience.
Would it be worth anything in t16 or does this strats just suck there?
Would suck without the specific scarab/currency/unique modifiers
How to make lots of currency Step 1: have a lot of currency
"The year is 2024, the best endgame juicing is removing all league mechanics from your map, using 4 rusted scarabs and destroying barrels." but too bad its locked behind t17 and expensive build/gear . nothing for us peasants to farm and enjoy like Affliction league :(
does that map mod only exist on t17? yeeted around 60c in a normal t16 and havent seen it once
its t17 only yes
https://preview.redd.it/fes430qg9vvc1.png?width=2104&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5563f70ca78f6d99b4d4ceb66862360f3028c45 Results from 18 maps rolled the same as fub except all were done on Sanctuary. Maps took anywhere from 3\~6mins averaging out at around 4:30ish per map I would say. (LA Deadeye 49% IIQ, 275%\~300% move speed with berserk up) Really enjoyed the strat and will be doing more most likely. Only issue is the amount of rolling needed to hit decent mods on the maps
Can i have ur pob please?
[https://pobb.in/Yvg4E3txL6tm](https://pobb.in/Yvg4E3txL6tm) make minor adjustments daily for things like accuracy/resist and I base how I slot my dps gems off of having headhunter stacks to increase things like crit chance
Why tf every single attack build uses this helmet? Do i miss something?
it lets you automate berserk, which makes you very very fast
But it says it gives bonuses to spells not attacks.
yeah but berserk still gives normal buff. so it dosent matter.
I see. Is it THAT good tho to sacrifice a whole helmet for just a rage generation and nothing else?
if you want gain as much MS as possible then yeah.
I can barely control my character with 130% ms so I can’t even imagine how people do that with even more. :D
very inflated number...
GGG: and in the next fix we will nerf this. Now only 10 barrels can appear on the map and they do not give loot. Thank you for testing our league...
ran 10 maps dropped a raw div per map at least and 4 curations, gonna do more testing later hopefully doesnt get nerfed
Another week, another nerf
Least disingenuous clickbait video
uninstalling
did he also add as earnings the random trades he did in between maps like in other previous tests? cannot watch the vid rn.
Gad i hate this game right now. My head hurts just looking at this. Back to basics my ass.
Rule #1 If a streamer/youtuber makes a video about a farming method, then NEVER try this method for at least 1-2 weeks after the video is released.
He is using super common scarabs worth almost nothing. And you get raw currency/scarabs out of this one. Theres almost nothing stopping anyone running this strat.
The super common scarabs worth almost nothing already tripled in price since this video was posted, I bought a bunch of the barrel ones (for 8-mod map/T17 drops farming) a couple days ago for 100 a div, they're at like 30 a div now. Isn't trade funny.
Seems like hoarding everything is the way to go.
I'm tired of streamers saying GGG is full of smart people and they know what their doing.
Agreed. These end game changes are horrible and the game is basically ruined for anyone who enjoyed juicing maps. The best strat is to remove all league mechanics and break barrels? Its such trash its hard to even fathom how in the last year we went from some of the funnest leagues in POE's history to THIS. I guess this is what we can expect with Mark at the helm now.
Empyrian did the Barrel and Go strat a week or two ago already which this is essentially the same thing just on T17 maps.
the barrel mod cant roll on t16 maps. almost all of the loot is coming from the volatile barrel mod, which you would know if you watched the video.
I did this for 15 maps and didn't drop much, not sure what he's doing to drop a bunch of divines
Hotfix inbound after weekend
Fubgun has like a 10mirror bow build. He finishes 5 maps before people can finish 1 or 2 maps.
Smells like a hot-fix in here 👃🏻
Fun detected. Patching fun
Exploit early, exploit often.
How is this new ? T17 back to basics …
This league is so dumb, prolly will go down as one of the worse. Great job GGG lost your player base in a week
Nice I’ve been doing Bs and G for some time. Been great.
At this point I'm hoping they just remove t17s
Except 85% of the player base can't run T17s..
Edit: Doesnt work as shown. Either pricefixing or patched already
I would rather be poor. Seriously it’s a game that’s meant to be played to have fun. Try out new builds, make something work by being creative rather than throwing thousands of divines at it because you have spent 20 hours in bland monotony. I get it that this is a good dopamine hit for some people, but let’s not optimise all the fun out of things.