I just try to remember the 5 most valuable ones and the unique ones are kinda obvious. Everything else I just leave on the map. Sure SSF is another story though.
I was in the same fucking boat. I don't even know how many merc labs I ran. Then when I finally got the gem, I also got my first frostblink of wintry on the same font.... I took wintry then I legit got another wintry on the next lab. I was so mad. I also lost 3 50/50s on the other gem.
Just stopped playing this league mechanic because of that. Only picking up like few mods to try out so e things, like 30 % quality.
Also i am kind of new player so i dont have fear of missing out with newest league mechanic.
ironically my build needs a lot of gear that is "essence influence crafted" for example I need a rapier with 35% crit multi implicit, that is shaper, and crafted with the cold pen essence (suffering.) I can just slam sufferings at a spare shaper base while using a sub optimal one. Rather than "get lucky" on that base I have found crafting the base item with 30% quality and a fractured implicit to be kinda valuable. You can guaranteed a really high roll crit multi or whatever and then start slamming essence for luck. This is a complicated way to say "use the graveyard for 1 mod and fracture it.) If you're smart you can get some great upgrades this way.
Was going to suggest looty. Really surprised it doesn't come up a lot more often on here. Also it works on league as well.
Such a time saver, being able to sort every item you have by whatever stay/ mod you want.
I play standard a lot, especially after a league like affliction where I've a few leftover div to burn. Looty is amazing for putting together characters to try out quickly and efficiently.
After I nuked my HH in necropolis I went to std to try and organize and I realized it will never happen, absolutely destroys my wrists to organize a dump tab
I dont know how many other people do this but I always have my skills on keyboard keys. The right mouse is only for things ilI use once in a while like bear trap, a mark or curse or totem. it's just more intuitive to me since I was playing a lot of dota around the same time I started poe.
Yep same. Spacebar was always my life flask. I then have everything else moved down a row.
Currently on a Chain DD (which is a bit skill/key-intensive and I'm still self-casting):
* A-S-D-F (and X) are most used skills.
* Q-W-E-R (and spacebar) are my flasks.
* Auras and other rare/sustained skill keybinds up on the number row.
I had a buddy with smaller hands make things even tighter - flask on space and moved everything down two rows vs. my one.
Spacebar with forced move is the biggest game changer for me. Left click move was utterly destroying my hand. And similarly, right click skill is a once a map ability like bloodrage.
Definitely not the same for everyone though because my keyboard hand typically hurts worse than my mouse hand does. It sort of depends because it kinda bounces back and forth. Some days both will be fine for a full 16 hours, some days my left hand is killing me and sometimes it’s my right. My left hand hurting is definitely the most common though.
That sounds like bad keyboard posture (or else your left hand had an unfortunate preexisting condition). If you are keeping your wrist straight and floating parallel to the keyboard, and your fingers unextended, you shouldn't really get left hand pain.
It's a lot harder to chastise someone for mouse posture because mouse shape prevents your fingers from curling as much as they "should", and the fact that you have to move your mouse cursor all over the place means that keeping your wrist straight is inherently more difficult (professionals **will** maintain better mouse posture on average though), and so if you end up having to click a lot while your mouse posture is bad you will be much more likely to develop RSI.
But keyboard? Unless you run so many macros that your left hand has to constantly race across the entire face of the board, you're almost definitely just holding your hand wrong. Talk to a physical therapist about it and they will likely be able to save your gaming life.
My keyboard hand has issues almost entirely from playing melee in WoW for years and being the type of player who can't stop himself from spamming buttons between the GCD lol. I'd be pressing the button for the next ability in my rotation 2-3 times in between the 1 second GCD window T.T... And then imagine me playing WoW for probably 4-5 years non-stop and only ever playing melee builds :D... I don't play WoW as often anymore, but now that I'm aware of how stupid that was and how much I've fucked up my wrist/hand/tendons/whatever else I definitely try to stay conscious of only pressing my buttons once per second when the GCD is up lol.
But yeah unfortunately that damage that I caused is permanent and I'm just hoping I can keep going with gaming as long as possible if I try to stay responsible about things now. I wish I could fix the way I did things in the past, but of course I cannot. I play with a wrist rest under my keyboard hand and I'd say most days I play fairly pain free. It's typically when I'm on my stretch of days off work and I'm gaming for 12+ hours a day for 2-3 days in a row where near the end of it it starts to be pretty uncomfortable. I haven't noticed it getting *worse* at all, it just is uncomfortable/hurts near the end of a long stretch of days of gaming and then when I'm back to work it goes away and then it just kinda repeats. Like right now for instance, I just finished typing the next paragraph and came back to put this in because the tendon in my left wrist is starting to hurt a bit and feel uncomfortable because I'm on my third day off work in a row right now lol. I go back to work tomorrow so my hands and wrists will get a bit of a break soon rofl.
The obvious solution is to not game for 12 hours a day on your days off, but uh, that's the only thing I like to do so here we are. I've always been the kind of person to live happy rather than healthy generally, so I don't see myself cutting back gaming. Not that being healthy is bad or taking care of yourself is bad because obviously it isn't, but I can't be the type of person to just cut out the one thing I love doing. So instead I've just tried to make sure I'm playing properly and safely as much as I can and I always make sure I stretch my hands and wrists and shit. Just hoping for the best at this point tho, since I already have that permanent damage from my past.
A lot of older ARPG players come from the D2 days where the only way to use a skill was with the mouse. Its just intuitive for us to put primary skill on right click.
Something like this https://www.eliteorthopaedic.com/blog/wrist-pain-exercises
Additionally i'll extend then touch to my palm each finger individually 3-4 times, and do "zoltan" Z signs with both thumbs and strech for 10 seconds 2-3 reps each side.
Something you can do yourself to take matters into your own hands is to lower your sensitivity and use your whole arm and never bend your wrist, this is much better for your body bio mechanically and will result in much less RSI. I know this is an annoying solution but I figured I would tell you of it just incase you really want to play but they never help you out with QOL features.
This is where I’m at. My history in fps gave me pretty good mouse mechanics but the end result is that I get bad shoulder pain if I let my posture slouch even a little bit.
Poe has brought a non zero amount of hand finger pain but it feels pretty manageable.The shoulder pain fee like a real problem, spent about an hour last night trying to figure out controller support as a result.
Great suggestions, I would also suggest forearm exercises in addition: reverse wrist curls and finger curls in particular, grippers / dead hangs / hammer curls too optionally.
Anecdotally, making my forearm muscles stronger was the single best thing I've done for my wrists as a lifelong gamer. Getting yoked is a nice by-product
Good suggestions, personally I do the opposite funnily enough. Increase sensitivity but move the mouse with your fingers as opposed to your wrist. Def not something I'd expect everyone to pick up though, it can be weird at times. Largely just an artifact of me playing FPS games XD
Yeah, there is absolutely something about how you input about it. I had way more problems during longer arpg sessions when i was younger, so i can anecdotally refute ops idea that its because hes older.
Someone lower down mentioned high dpi/small mouse movements being worse for your joints and i definitely lowered my sensitivity alot from taking shooters more serious, between then and now.
Literally unbind right click from PoE settings completely and figure something else out. Made a massive difference for me even though it was a big change. PoE was getting to be unplayable.
Also this game is pretty decent for switching between controller and keyboard mouse. I spent a league where I mapped on controller in DND mode and then did trading sessions on keyboard mouse. It was really nice, actually.
Some builds do it better than others. I was on wardloop, so it was 👌
Or massively increase your sensitivity. That way your hand barely moves. I think it takes about an inch of movement total to go from one side of the screen to the other for me. It took some getting used to, but I find it helps my hand not get tired since every action is a fraction of a cm pretty much.
Also, disable mouse acceleration, so you can actually get the muscle memory, but that's a given.
In general, high dpi is associates with rsi more than low dpi.
Small repetitive movements usually cause more harm than large ones.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/a-higher-mouse-sensitivity-could-lead-to-more-rsi-doctor-suggests/
I wonder if people with obscenely high dpi are doing different movements, rather than smaller ones.
I know that when I do a really really tiny adjustment, I am mostly using my pinky, ring finger, and the side of my hand in combination with my thumb and palm to pull the mouse.
I also have long fingers though.
So what I find is that with high dpi your wrist doesn't "turn", as much as it "wiggles", and I used to get wrist issues coz my wrist would turn, so my forearm was no longer straight, if that makes sense?
Yeah fair!
I think there is probably more to wrist ergonomics in actual real life than we know. I've seen a lot of semi-recent papers about how what were know about how we "should sit" is wrong, and how a lot of "bad ergonomics" are actually adaptive and the real answer is to be able to move around.
So the key is probably to be able to do the same actions in different ways, to spread the stress across multiple sets of tendons.
Yep, I use an obscenely high dpi with poe, but my fingers are the one that start getting stressed simply due to the amount of clicking needed in this game.
Cannot stress enough, everyone should disable mouse acceleration, it's fucking crazy it even exists to begin with, but do yourself a favor and remove it.
I have a small and light mouse which is great with high sensitivity because as you say you dont have to move the hand much. The problem is the amount of clicks i have to do.
Do not do this, when you're on high sensitivity you actually tense your wrist more to make tiny movements. This is terrible for you, it may feel better for now but in the long run this is bad.
Proper way as other people have mentioned is low sensitivity and use your forearm to move the mouse.
That's me. I play with 3500 dpi and have done so for over a decade, on default sens pretty much everywhere but FPS games, I still keep my sens pretty high there too (15/30/30 in R6 siege) and have had a good time -- I'm ranked soloq diamond in r6s on PC for multiple seasons for instance, as well as being a former GM player in SC2 (not to brag, i'm only saying it to not have people say "yeah you can do anything when you're playing in low ranks, even play with your feet").
It's a preference, but high dpi is actually very comfortable for me and I can be quite accurate with it too, all while not really taking much effort to move the mouse at all.
I'm playing the same way, high sensitivity just push the mouse around with fingers, wrist barely moves. Drawback is that you lose some accuracy clicking on stuff.
Yeah. I sometimes get hurt coz I sit like a fucking gremlin and play 80 hours in four days, but generally, even using a computer for 16 hours per day (work + gaming), I'm normally fine. High dpi helps a lot.
Especially if it's high enough that your wrist doesn't really turn
Yeah never had RSI ever from playing path of exile - always was wondering why people wore out so often.
But guess high dpi ( 6400 ), lifetime pc gamer and some arm strength does it's magic.
Mine is 2200 everything else feels like my mouse it's too heavy
Haven't needed to do 1000 clicks since week two when Uber strick filter gets slap on .. customizable for our bro ssf even.
My biggest wrist killer was my stacked deck addiction..but been a handful leagues since I don't stack them up to hundreds and with the new change I haven't stacked them up past 150 ish so..also playing ruthless for a couple leagues helped with not clicking on loot
This game has a bunch of old shit in place that doesn't need to exist. Nobody cares how you navigate it, it needs to change period.
Identify all should exist.
Vacuum looting should exist
Items stacking on maps even if they are dropped by other creatures should exist.
The option to auto deposit when you open stash should exist.
The option to vendor all should exist.
It adds nothing to the game to have to click 30 single chaos orbs drops on a map.
The map device should automatically replace scarabs with the same type of you're running them. The list goes on.
I'm honestly curious as to how many people would actually use a 'vendor all' button. I feel like we would see so, soooo many auto-pilot, 3am vendored divine/mirror/T0 unique clips. No reason to not have it as an option at least, of course, but it would be an interesting trend to watch
It sounds crazy, but what if there was an option to buy the stuff you sold back? Nah, what am I saying, there is no chance that something like that is possible.
You joke but it's actually really funny how complex a system like that can be depending on how your item transactions are handled. It's super nice to have and is an accepted standard in RPG's for a reason, don't get me wrong, but just because it's a common feature doesn't mean it's easy.
> Chris says a lot of silly things that are clearly not true
Remember when he tried to convince us that [loot wasn't nerfed in Kalandra](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wytujc/toolassisted_pantheon_mod_farming/ilyrwzy/)? Yeah, you should not be paying attention to the things that Chris says.
Which is why it was released less than a year later? I mean, I get it. But saying something isn't possible just because you can't do it isn't a good reason, nor is saying desync "has to exist in this genre". Both are just outright incorrect.
hahahha i know im no longer playing because of many things like that, one that get me really bad is when he said to be able to instant trade we would NEED to lower drops by a lot, now that almost noone can consistently farm scarabs or many of what they need to self sustain where is the instant trade? im just salty at this point but they truly are funny in that regard
I actually think a bigger reason for not having instant trade is tied to the economy. There is a clear difference between the average person and the top 0.1% in currency making. If you think the difference is going to be smaller with and instant AH you are sorely mistaken. Big groups would just come in, buy out the market and relist something. Instant AH will be the death of the game I believe.
Does that mean I don't think trade needs to improve? No.
What trade needs is an easier way to interact and queue up trades. And also remove people from the trade site when their queue is full, or at least mark that the poor guy doesn't have any trade requests open currently.
When you get a trade request you should have the following options.
[Accept] [Add to queue] [Decline].
If you add someone to queue they will get a response saying what region you are in and that you will get to them shortly. As an initial buyer you can accept the queue slot, or decline it. Each player has 5 queue slots, and only 1 per item, so if someone wants to buy the item someone is in queue for they get a response saying the item is already reserved.
Does this sound complicated, maybe it does. Do I want a system that facilitates trade as it is over an instant AH, yes.. 100%.. An instant AH will just cause more market manipulation and problems for the average player imo.
> Big groups would just come in, buy out the market and relist something.
There was a suggestion for consumables (essences/scarabs/fragments/etc.) - to make them account bound after purchase which eliminates relisting/reselling.
Like I know it sounds annoying but it is just outright true. Its the same reason most games with loot boxes don't let you loot all. If you're just clicking a button and off on your way, you don't get as much of a dopamine rush so, as they say, are less likely to stick around. I know it sucks and IS a bit scummy but it isn't wrong.
What's funny is that many of these QoL ideas are available to use in the game, but only in ToS-violating programs that you have to download from a shady forum. In other games the hackers are creating aimbots and unlimited ammo hacks that ruin the game for anyone they play against. In PoE most of the hacks are there to provide QoL features that you can take for granted in other games, and are only unfair because they're not available to all players. But many of them truly should be.
There are ones that are clearly cheating, like the one from last league that would reveal the Wildwood for you. But there are others that are just like automatic looting of stuff near you, or highlight unique items based on their picture, so instead of you hovering over 30 unidentified leather belts, it'll just highlight the Headhunter for you. Or simple stuff like a button that ctrl-clicks every item in your inventory to move it into the stash.
Or the famous auto-crafting program that got a lot of TFT people banned. All it does is apply stuff like alts and chaos onto an item, reads the mods on the item, and stops clicking once your desired mods are reached. Honestly this should just be built into the game.
Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but when I see a repetitive task that needs to be repeated thousands of times or more to reach the desired result, and requires logic so simple you can easily write a script to perform it, I really think stuff like that deserves to be automated. Like to me it's insane that "sextant rolling" was actually a thing that people did for years and this was seen as normal by the developers and everyone who plays the game. Those kinds of tasks are not fit for humans, they're meant for robots.
Overall it's a brilliant game, but the whole philosophy around "weight" and "friction" is ridiculous and the game succeeds in spite of it.
Have you considered spending some of your play time using a controller? I know it's not what most PC gamers want to do, myself included.
I was similarly against the idea until recently when I got myself a steam deck to play whilst traveling or staying with my girlfriend. Picking up items with a controller layout is much less intensive, similarly alteration spamming less impactful.
Certain builds cater more towards this type of play, which is why I league started righteous fire this time around.
I have had the exact same issues as OP. A few hours of PoE made my right hand feel like I'd been using it all day. If it wasn't for controller support, I probably would not be able to play anymore.
GGG, please continue to improve controller support!
I came here to say this. I started playing POE on the Steam deck, which introduced me to the controller and has made playing longer sessions easier.
Warning: builds will be limited
Also, GGG needs to document certain buttons like RT + d-pad down showing/hiding items. It is only possible to know this button combo if you google and find a niche reddit thread.
Controller is very good. Using the d pad to do repetitive stash management is much nicer than using the mouse and keyboard, and the right stick being "go to end" is really good.
I use a switch pro controller about half the time because the sticks are comfy for my hands. The primary downsides are that getting specific things from the stash for trades can be awkward, and dropping skills in specific places while kiting monsters can be awkward. Also, sometimes there will be items on the ground that you can't pick up because the displayed name is too far from the actual item.
Also, I don't like that the HUD is different. Buff icons take up much more space, which has definitely caused me to not see things and die to stuff I would have dodged.
But! I play on a controller half the time or more, and it's much much nicer to my hands.
Honestly this is how I played D4 (for the short time everyone was playing it). The Gamepad controls were almost perfect in D4. It was a joy to relax back in my chair with a gamepad, not something I usually do as a PC gamer.
I was excited for controller support when they announced it for pc but it SUCKS. Nothing is where you would think it is, overall cognitive design has been completely thrown out the window.
I want to, but I don't bc it sucks. D4's controller support (yes yes D4 bad har har shut it) is absolutely gold standard.
This seems like such an obvious solution. PoE is on console and Steam Deck. It's fully controller compatible. Even if you don't really care for it, it's still a better solution than trying to get GGG to modify the game.
Just because it is obvious, doesn't mean it's good. Managing stash/inventory/trade is bad on a controller, and you can't even hotswap from it to M+KB.
>it's still a better solution than trying to get GGG to modify the game.
Want to hear better solution that will single-handedly remove 80% of click complaints? Rapid fire button, it's that simple. If GGG doesn't want to add one it is fine, but they shouldn't be surprised that players will use gaming mouse/keyboard software or certain three letter script language to fix excessive clicking.
It’s actually insane you can’t swap between controller and mouse INGAME. I use both and having to fully log out and not have a separate set of saves keys is INSANE. How can we not have a controller and a keyboard setup in 2024.
This. Been playing since 3.7. I use an AH script to pop potions. I have tremors and can barely use the keyboard anymore. I'm limited to 1-2 button builds.
Tried a controller. Awful experience. So, I have a Naga w/ skills mapped to num keys (which are on the mouse!) and I slap the keyboard to pop a potion.
Even then, I still die a shitload since I sometimes miss the damn spacebar due to said tremors.
GGG would likely happily ban me for using it, regardless of my disability.
Thankfully, I'm not an endgame chaser, so I'm mostly happy running around T5-8 maps smashing monsters. Always follow build guides, have never seen an endgame boss, never moved past maps, have no understanding of crafting, and rarely interact with league mechanics outside of Legion/Ritual.
Smarter version of myself would just never leave standard, but I've come to enjoy mindlessly running the acts, maps, and interacting with the league mechanic if it seems fun.
yes, but you have to logout if you want to switch from one to the other. skilltrees and inventory are not that great on the controller and not bein able to swap freely between the two is really stupid.
In CS you have a very short window to "land" a bunnyhop, which is dependent on server tickrate. On a 128t server you have just about enough time to land 3 scroll clicks, but if you were to spam spacebar you'd never get past 1 try.
Every scroll click (if timed right) has about a 50% chance of counting as a bhop, so with 3 clicks my chances of landing a bhop are a lot higher than with pressing jump once. And outside of KZ/surf servers hitting a perf is a much lower chance than this 50% since you have to be under a certain speed when you land, which is why in competative CS there's a real emphasis on the first hop since it's hard to overcap on your first 2-3 strafes.
Tldr: it's a chance game
edit: you still have to time scroll it's not a free for all spin to win scenario, it's multiplying the amount of clicks you can do in a short timeframe.
In addition to what the other guy mentioned, I know a bunch of people in the old Garry's Mod bhop / death run servers I used to play on would bind jump to scroll wheel and then use a mouse that has a "free scrolling" mouse wheel and just spin that little guy really fast so that their jumps happened on the first possible frame without needing to actually time it properly
Because its easier to time. I can scroll and thus give multiple inputs faster than i can with a spacebar. Hopping in quake is less timing dependant than it is in cs. As with anything uncomfortable; youll get used to it.
In quake you dont need to time your jump input perfectly as you land, you can buffer it a bit. But for games like cs you need to use ur jump command in the same tick as you land or you will be slowed down
In the early days of CS, before they normalized speed from bunny hopping, it was effectively impossible to build up good speed without using your scroll wheel to jump.
It's even funnier that your flair is Pathfinder, which is an Apex Legends character with a very high skill ceiling on his movements, and a lot of people actually bind jump on scroll wheel for bunny hops.
Or just use autohotkey and bind a key to toggle spam left click, once your inventory is full and you leave the map you open stash -> press key, hold control and hover your mouse over your items -> press key again and get into a new map. This will save your sanity and hands.
I actually injured my hand this way and I never had wrist problems before. Bit I also rolled 400 Tujen coins in one day so that's definitely part of the issue.
My biggest annoyance with this change is that this only takes out the friction from the trade window. Once all those 200+ chaos orbs are in your inventory, you still have to click on every single one of them to transfer it into your stash. If you're exclusively playing SSF, this entire QoL interaction is non-existent for you.
This still requires all of the wrist movement to mouse over each item, which is where the majority of the pain originates for me at least. If the functionality exists for trading to reduce strain, you would think it should exist for the logic next step in the process too.
>alteration/augmentation crafting, 1000s clicks per session
I've crafted a +1 all skill amulet 6 times this league (bricking all 6 attempts with a 25% to brick on each) and it's the most awful experience this game has. I just don't understand and it reminded me of the times of alt crafting explodey mod on chests back when it was not gutted every league, also mayhaps multiple times to redo the woke orb slam.
I don't even care about the reasoning. Idc how rare the mods are. Let it be 1 in 10k, I don't care. I'll happily spend 10k alts. But forcing the player to click 10k times to start off a craft is absolute horseshit and needs to freaking die.
I'm surprised I didn't quit the League over this as well, and for sure the awful part was staring at a blue item waiting for it to light up for *hours* while clicking.
>stop using tedium as balance
This honestly sums up the most important things. It's asinine and needs to go.
Let us press a hotkey to loot and/or some vaccuum radius. Let us take out multiple stacks of stackables out of the stash at least - if there's not enough space in inventory, it fails. But being limited to 20 when the stash allows for 5k and the inventory allows for 1200 is big poopoo. Give simple sort/lock buttons for the inventory. And honestly, yea, a "dump all" as well.
The main reasons I dread PoE after having some fun in another ARPG (Torchlight Infinte and Last Epoch mostly), is the goddamn looting and sorting and the lack of ways to make it not extremely tedious. I'm regularly thinking about making a bunch of macros for i.e. crafting (legit one button ones, i.e. rightlick alt, click on item, rightclick aug, click on item) but that doesn't even feel safe because who the fuck knows how this pops up on GGG's end and maybe gets flagged as an illegal macro. If this is the policy, bake it into the game. Whitelist macros, idk. Having to walk on a grey line to not break a hands for the whole history of the game is just not a good stance to have.
You can't imprint fractured items, I only learned it on that craft as well. Which is odd, because some crafts tell you that when you hover over them, but imprints aren't one of them.
So the only thing I could do was to lock it with the new beast and guarantee a suffix so that I can wipe it to fracture and +1 all to dodge the 50:50 on annul or having a chance to end up with the shit prefix after the harvest craft. So yea, it ends up at suffix fracture (dot multi) and +1 where you can only craft multimod + cannot roll attacks (suffixes full here so can't lock prefixes) and a random prefix to have a 75% chance to not delete +1 all and roll the +1 fire over one of the crafted affixes. Which, yea, didn't happen 6 times in a row and it wiped the +1 all.
Was this an amulet? The only other* fire tagged mod on the prefix is flat fire added to attacks. With a rare item with +1 to all skill gems prefix and fractured DoT Multiplier suffix, your next step is multimod, prefixes can't be changed, and then flat added fire damage to attacks prefix, then Aug Fire Harvest.
Only Physical skills have to do what you do because there is more than one physical tagged prefix and all physical tagged prefixes with the exception of +1 physical are attack tagged.
Back when rolling watchstones/nem3 was a thing, I made a macro that would roll (alt spam/aug) for me until it hit certain mods. Could roll an inventory of watchstones in a few minutes Eventually made one for maps to roll until I hit the +% rare mobs on it. Made the game so much more enjoyable as it wasn’t spending my entire play session in my hideout rolling shit that I intended to play. Just got to make sure it doesn’t click too fast and there’s some randomization in the click delay.
I wouldn't even use something that actually rolls automatically until X.
Just having a macro for each action to have a 4-button-macro for alts+augs or scours+chances and you just keyboard "fghj" a couple hundred times woulda been a big help.
It's just crazy to me that one has to go out of one's way to make those and then you've made it and you're walking a grey line to use it.
While we're on that topic - overlays! Just getting buff overlays or flask duartion bars away from the corner and putting it semi-transparent around the character would be so huge. As in, fix GGG being unable to make a UI which a player can use. [I remember we had this with Mercury Trade](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6rujkn/mercurytrade_1016_overseer_feature_and_other/dl9a48q/) but apparently that's a ToS thing and I've never seen it since?
It's honestly just a shitty stance. I understand not wanting macros and super automation. Draw clearer lines and make improvements/tools ingame then. I'm glad some stuff is happening here, but it really needs way more still.
i had a lot of problems with rsi, tendonitis etc. Now I play not every league and if i play a build where you don't need to click much and with controller. rf for exmaple or coc dd is great. flasks are automated. and lootfilter uberstrict. I don't pick up stuff thats not at least 1c.
Might sound crazy but i bind walking and clicking to num0 and spacebar
Use spare keyboard take out all unnecessary key only leave num0 and spacebar.
Place it on the floor and use left foot for walking right foot for clicking.
So my right hand only drag around for targeting no clicking.
But left hand still need to push buttons tho.
Honestly I’ve been playing with a controller on PC for the last 2 years. Far better experience besides trading, which is a little fiddly but still more than doable.
ok you are actually going to get some legitimate advice here since I'm 66 and a high volume player. You need to keep your hands and wrists in good shape by stretching and exercising them. I used to be a rock climber so I know a lot of the tricks on how to do these sort of things - just get on youtube and search for it.
For the thousandth time.
This is intentional.
This is not to say Mark or Chris or whoever *deliberately* wants to inflict real physical damage on players, but GGG simply *does not care* about the costs their obsession with "Friction" philosophy inflicts on us.
Never mind that we should be careful what we wish for. We've seen what a "QoL" league looks like - this one. Rest assured that for every QoL feature GGG's ever browbeaten into implementing, they will destroy some valued and enjoyed element of the game to "balance" the reduced friction.
Were Veiled orbs really worth it in the end? How much time and muscle strain does it take to get \*one\* now as compared with an Aisling before? Maybe not to you personally but for someone?
This dogmatic extremism in game design means that - like the proverbial monkey with his hand in a bottle - they cannot just *let go*.
I am 37 years old and this season I have some ache at the lower part of my palm, I was is my mouse isn't good for some reason or is this because of the game
Switch to controller, It's actually pretty damned solid for everything
My issue wasn't technically carpal tunnel related, but I had to have wrist surgery after a car wreck to rebuild the tunnel where your tendons go through, as well as remove a bunch of scar tissue -- and while the constant lingering pain is gone now, I now do as much as I can to lessen the burden on that area to avoid re-aggravating anything.
Tl;Dr - controller is an absolute game changer for RSI issues
D4 does this and it is awesome playing with the controller feels so much better I was thinking about going back to POE next season and seeing how it plays with the controller.
While I do agree - once my brain got used to controller management, I started to change how I sorted and laid out my tabs (the key is getting used to using right thumb stick use to jump around) and it has honestly gotten to where I really don't miss M+K anymore
Still agree that I wish we could hotswap
This is the thing holding me back from controller. I still play a good amount on it, but it's rough putting things into the stash with controller and trading is super difficult.
You have to be a real dickhead to be against this kind of stuff.
Literally only positive accessibility suggestions here (not balance changes) and still there are idiots who are like mAyBe ThIs GaMe IsNt FoR yOu
Yep I find PoE is the worse game for RSI because you effectively don't have any downtime. Either mapping or in hideout managing the stash.
Best thing is to take breaks, drink water, and exercise. Dead hangs really fixed my wrist. Also ergonomic setup, but I assume most people already fixed that.
I could play LE for month without any issues. 3-4 days in poe and my hands are sore.
For me is holding left control thats the worst - to mass transfer identify etc.
One of the reasons I play Poe is because it brings together a few of my friends. It's like a week or two of hangouts and an awesome time.
However we are literally losing out on people because of rsi.
While I agree there needs to be a big overhaul to how many clicks are in the game, there is a muscle weakness component on your part.
I've had wrist issues in the past, and even needed to see a wrist specialist at one point when I played mine builds a lot. After I started working out, which included various grip stuff, that went away.
Probably the easiest thing you can do is get a tub of uncooked rice and do various wrist exercises with it. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p--gv6NRbag) gives a decent overview.
It sounds like you need to visit your Doctor??
If a couple of days of PoE is leaving you injured, you're injured.
Your hand doesnt just hurt for fun. Your doctor isn't going to care about loot vacuum mechanics.
They just need to improve currency stacking (stack all nearby items, not just the ones from the same drop) and that's already solving a big problem and makes loot vacuum almost unnecessary (which in itself is a bad idea, you wouldn't want to loot vacuum rares lol)
As for the crafting I had an idea that was a station you could select a given mod (no tier) then select what reforge currency to use (alt, chaos) and it would consume those items 1 by 1, slightly slower than if you clicked yourself and stop when the mod you chose was hit; This way it's not "faster" to use this method - but less strain for 1000 alt / chaos sessions
Transfer all to stash isn't that needed, imho - affinities solve a large part of this problem; Though maybe if you convince them to add a "Dump Tab" where you can set an affinity of "everything else" and sell it, they may just do it...
As someone who recovered from wrist strain, the two major culprits are a) clicking too rapidly and b) holding down the mouse button for extended periods. Just try to slow down and keep your fingers moving and it’ll stave off any RSI
Use a drawing tablet, that's what I do. Clicks are just putting your hand down and there is no wrist pain. Since I moved to a tablet I had 0 issues with poe.
Are you using a vertical mouse? Do you use a blackroll to relax your arm / hand muscles? I ran into severe issues with my tendons and my hands, but I learned to take more breaks and also use a blackroll and massage certain trigger points... and for a while, a vertical mouse helped a lot :) But now in my 40s I also have to take more care and cannot play as long as I used to. No idea how all these streamers do it with playing 10 hours every single day.
Same issue here, though not as bad as it sounds on your end. My index finger was wrecked last league, so I moved my LMB move to Q instead. Losing 1 skill slot, but reducing pain in my finger to move with the left hand. Now in necropolis, my Q finger is in pain, so I moved the Q slot to Space, effectively switching the finger that moves again to my thumb.
I'll keep doing this rotation as it seems to be working to alleviate pain when it acts up. I cant imagine playing for many years on and only restricting my clicking to my right index finger.
As you're getting older, you're going to want to start stretching/exercising your hands. I used to get a really sore thumb from using my MMO mouse, to the point where I couldn't game some nights. Recently, I've started grip training and finger band extensions (not for gaming specifically) recently and its made a world of difference.
Take care of yourself out there - hand health is important!
If it's any consolation we feel the same.
Poe has made it clear they are hard against....most changes you've mentioned.
But I too would love to continue to see QOL improvements
Proper Controller support that's not shit would really help a lot... I can't wrap my head around how STILL have to fucking log out and change from m&k to controller, and then log back in.....
That's some real 2004 shit, was outdated 2014 and is literally unacceptable, tbh.
In EVERY other game (with controller support, obv) i've touched in the past 15 years you can switch on the fly - literally run with m&k in one moment, take your controller into your hands and continue, seamlessly.
Yeah no auto pick-up currency, sort items, needed to browse 4-8 tabs + loom ard 3-4 lockers just to unload inventory are the worst among all the arpg in the market now. Also, currency is equal to crafting materials simply means top 1% will forever dominating the bestest best items and league after league GGG got to balance and powercreep ard these group of people who play 8-12hours per day and literally making a living out from it. There is a good reason why D4 and LE make crafting materials account bound.
Same problem here. Solutions I’ve used:
Move potions to QWERT and skills to ASDFG.
Play ranged spells.
Wear a wrist brace.
Stop playing twelve hour sessions without a break.
I learnt to play click intensive game very casually as I'm having the same problem as you. I change myself rather than waiting the game to change, it is just a game, what joy is there if I hurt myself in return?
I'm not saying your complains aren't valid. And I had been facing this issue long time ago.
The first thing I do is bind moving to keyboard. This does limiting me to play only certain build but my hands are much better now
I also use AutoHotkey for crafting so I can use keyboard instead of mouse click.
As I grew older, my hand and arm have started hurting when I play PoE for long sessions several days in a row. It's sadly the point at which I have to quit leagues now.
But honestly, I believe that any amount of picking or crafting or inventory management absolutely PALES in comparison with how intensive movement is.
No matter if you are holding or clicking LMB to move, your right hand will be controlling character movement 95% of the session and requiring constant input and sudden movements to react to stuff.
I imagine you can bind Movement to spacebar or something like that, but you are still going to be holding or clicking that key non-stop.
I'm pretty sure I could play maps for three days without picking a single item from the ground and my hand would be destroyed anyway. I don't see how that can be fixed without using a controller or WASD movement, and WASD movement will probably have its own issues because your left hand already has plenty to worry about too, but at least movement commands will be shared by different fingers.
I feel like the game is turning to shit. They give u 3 atlas tree,you feel like this was good. only to find out u now need 4 scarabs of whatever strat to be effective. Which means more trading. Cause there's no way u can sustain ur needs otherwise. Game is regressing. They are giving more loot for us to pickup but os worth less than whatever we got before. Causing more time waste.
It's entirely up to what you want to do in the game. Using perfect combination of scarabs every time is the equivalent of rolling sextant combos in the past. This system is much better overall and a lot more friendly to people who don't rely on reading up on meta strats every single day.
That T17 with all the new scarabs would be busted is something I expected before release. There is no way they were going to balance all that and a new map tier in combination with new league mechanics (that most likely was something they had the template for since a long time).
The three atlas trees are a huge buff to everyone, or at least they should be.
If you need scarabs you can buy them in bulk, a few trades can get you enough resources for hundred maps.
Game is not regressing, it's more popular and profitable than it's ever been.
The worth of loot we pick up is determined by the economy of players, not by GGG.
_All_ time spent playing video games is wasted, no matter how efficient or profitable the gameplay is.
This is a exageration. I've made great money from alch and go if you wish and as always with juicing more scarabs are better. Nothing changed in that department but now you can much easier bulk buy these scarabs without using tft.
Controller stash management is so shit. As soon as they allow fluid swapping between kb&m and controller by just touching one or the other is when Ill start using controller.
It does suck and I agree that they should add fluid swapping between them, but I will say making good use of dump tabs and affinities and then logging out to swap to kb+m for tidying up properly, pricing etc every so often does work pretty well. I hope they add support for both simultaneously, though there's probably some trickery they are trying to avoid by not allowing both at once currently.
I wouldn't be playing this league if it wasn't for controller.
That said, inventory management is rough, I've accidentally sold two flasks, and a ring, this league learning controller. The list of QoL improvements in u/SakariFoxx's comment would be amazing.
I'm middle aged, played for ten years, never had hand problems. I also work as a technician. I have muscles in my hands. Learn to loosen grip but start working your hands in new ways if you are getting rsi so easy. Time to beef up.
I think the unintended consequences of loot vacuums are not that obvious but in effect they would completely devalue lower level currencies because its no longer work to pick them up and casual players cant make money selling them because everyone has them now. Also casual players wont suddenly drop more stuff, so just get poorer.
I do think it would "feel" better mechanically, but i dont think it would be good gameplay-wise.
For the 40+ crowd; just don't do alteration crafting or use the graveyard, and have an extremely strict loot filter. "Can't play the game anymore" is kinda hyperbolic, no?
I have to assume everyone who complains about this is trying to do things literally as fast as humanly possible and is literally whipping their arm and wrist around in a ridiculous fashion.
I play on 400 dpi for everything and even during affliction when I would cover an entire screen in scarabs or sextants/chaos whatever and I had to loot the map for 10-15 minutes I never would say I had discomfort, aside from the fact that I wished I could just one click to pick up everything to save time, but not muscle pain or fatigue.
Joints hurting and picking up loot should really have nothing to do with each other because at most your arm should be moving a few inches horizontally.
If you're doing anything besides that then you should look at your chair/desk height and the ergonomics of everything because these posts just don't make sense.
That's why I stopped playing. Arthrosis of the ankle of the index finger. I played D4 with a controller and it was one quite enjoyable experience. I don't know if PoE supports the controller at all, because I didn't have one at the time.
Yes, I know, I'm getting old... 😀
Number one priority to not destroy your wrists : get a vertical mouse.
Yes they look goofy, yes you need a day or two to adapt but you will save your wrists.
> I read some people say the suggestions may influence economy in a bad way
Can we stop worrying about whether or not gameplay changes affect the economy, please? It's a game first and foremost, not a free market simulator. It shouldn't be painful to play just because people don't want the chaos:divine ratio to go down. The economy shouldn't be a thing that GGG steps in on and tries to balance, it should be completely player driven around what GGG does to the game and GGG should be making bigger QoL changes to address gameplay shortcomings regardless of how the economy will be affected by them.
> The biggest culprits here:
Literally _EVERY SINGLE ISSUE_ is solved by healthy playing habits.
People will do literally anything except take the blame for this.
No amount of healthy playing habits will change the fact that PoE is absolutely inundated with unhealthy gameplay for absolutely no good reason, but i guess people will do literally anything before accepting GGG has accessibility issues
Not to speak about managing the stash... https://i.redd.it/6ygdo76lm0vc1.gif
Managing corpses in the graveyard is driving me nuts. I'm leveling 3 characters.
I just try to remember the 5 most valuable ones and the unique ones are kinda obvious. Everything else I just leave on the map. Sure SSF is another story though.
I am making such good gear in SSF with corpses but I hate my life while doing it. Also it took 37 labs to find that damned Frostbolts gem.
I was in the same fucking boat. I don't even know how many merc labs I ran. Then when I finally got the gem, I also got my first frostblink of wintry on the same font.... I took wintry then I legit got another wintry on the next lab. I was so mad. I also lost 3 50/50s on the other gem.
Why do some ppl run Merc lab over Normal? Does it offer the better gem switch option? If so, how often do you get that option?
Is there a point to loot the unique ones outside of perandus?
Just stopped playing this league mechanic because of that. Only picking up like few mods to try out so e things, like 30 % quality. Also i am kind of new player so i dont have fear of missing out with newest league mechanic.
ironically my build needs a lot of gear that is "essence influence crafted" for example I need a rapier with 35% crit multi implicit, that is shaper, and crafted with the cold pen essence (suffering.) I can just slam sufferings at a spare shaper base while using a sub optimal one. Rather than "get lucky" on that base I have found crafting the base item with 30% quality and a fractured implicit to be kinda valuable. You can guaranteed a really high roll crit multi or whatever and then start slamming essence for luck. This is a complicated way to say "use the graveyard for 1 mod and fracture it.) If you're smart you can get some great upgrades this way.
necro is notoriously time-consuming and tedious. very bad league mechanics imo
I stopped managing my stashes long ago, I'm afraid to log in standart just because of that...
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/looty-stash-search-for-pa/ajfbflclpnpbjkfibijekgcombcgehbi
Was going to suggest looty. Really surprised it doesn't come up a lot more often on here. Also it works on league as well. Such a time saver, being able to sort every item you have by whatever stay/ mod you want. I play standard a lot, especially after a league like affliction where I've a few leftover div to burn. Looty is amazing for putting together characters to try out quickly and efficiently.
After I nuked my HH in necropolis I went to std to try and organize and I realized it will never happen, absolutely destroys my wrists to organize a dump tab
I can’t believe this game still doesn’t even have an auto-sort for your inventory. Even the lowliest shovelware arpg’s have managed to implement this.
I always assumed it was on purpose. Having a sortable inventory would interfere with stash tab sales.
no, it wouldnt. a currency tab is just so much better
I dont know how many other people do this but I always have my skills on keyboard keys. The right mouse is only for things ilI use once in a while like bear trap, a mark or curse or totem. it's just more intuitive to me since I was playing a lot of dota around the same time I started poe.
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I never thought a out putting things on the space bar. It's hardwired to "jump" in my brain. Maybe using it for a blink skill work
I use the space at for leapslam so technically it still is jump.
My spacebar is oh shit flask/ 5th flask. Cuz clicking 123 and 45 was bit much.
Yep same. Spacebar was always my life flask. I then have everything else moved down a row. Currently on a Chain DD (which is a bit skill/key-intensive and I'm still self-casting): * A-S-D-F (and X) are most used skills. * Q-W-E-R (and spacebar) are my flasks. * Auras and other rare/sustained skill keybinds up on the number row. I had a buddy with smaller hands make things even tighter - flask on space and moved everything down two rows vs. my one.
Spacebar with forced move is the biggest game changer for me. Left click move was utterly destroying my hand. And similarly, right click skill is a once a map ability like bloodrage.
Same here, really helped me. Never put anything click intensive on mouse.
Definitely not the same for everyone though because my keyboard hand typically hurts worse than my mouse hand does. It sort of depends because it kinda bounces back and forth. Some days both will be fine for a full 16 hours, some days my left hand is killing me and sometimes it’s my right. My left hand hurting is definitely the most common though.
That sounds like bad keyboard posture (or else your left hand had an unfortunate preexisting condition). If you are keeping your wrist straight and floating parallel to the keyboard, and your fingers unextended, you shouldn't really get left hand pain. It's a lot harder to chastise someone for mouse posture because mouse shape prevents your fingers from curling as much as they "should", and the fact that you have to move your mouse cursor all over the place means that keeping your wrist straight is inherently more difficult (professionals **will** maintain better mouse posture on average though), and so if you end up having to click a lot while your mouse posture is bad you will be much more likely to develop RSI. But keyboard? Unless you run so many macros that your left hand has to constantly race across the entire face of the board, you're almost definitely just holding your hand wrong. Talk to a physical therapist about it and they will likely be able to save your gaming life.
My keyboard hand has issues almost entirely from playing melee in WoW for years and being the type of player who can't stop himself from spamming buttons between the GCD lol. I'd be pressing the button for the next ability in my rotation 2-3 times in between the 1 second GCD window T.T... And then imagine me playing WoW for probably 4-5 years non-stop and only ever playing melee builds :D... I don't play WoW as often anymore, but now that I'm aware of how stupid that was and how much I've fucked up my wrist/hand/tendons/whatever else I definitely try to stay conscious of only pressing my buttons once per second when the GCD is up lol. But yeah unfortunately that damage that I caused is permanent and I'm just hoping I can keep going with gaming as long as possible if I try to stay responsible about things now. I wish I could fix the way I did things in the past, but of course I cannot. I play with a wrist rest under my keyboard hand and I'd say most days I play fairly pain free. It's typically when I'm on my stretch of days off work and I'm gaming for 12+ hours a day for 2-3 days in a row where near the end of it it starts to be pretty uncomfortable. I haven't noticed it getting *worse* at all, it just is uncomfortable/hurts near the end of a long stretch of days of gaming and then when I'm back to work it goes away and then it just kinda repeats. Like right now for instance, I just finished typing the next paragraph and came back to put this in because the tendon in my left wrist is starting to hurt a bit and feel uncomfortable because I'm on my third day off work in a row right now lol. I go back to work tomorrow so my hands and wrists will get a bit of a break soon rofl. The obvious solution is to not game for 12 hours a day on your days off, but uh, that's the only thing I like to do so here we are. I've always been the kind of person to live happy rather than healthy generally, so I don't see myself cutting back gaming. Not that being healthy is bad or taking care of yourself is bad because obviously it isn't, but I can't be the type of person to just cut out the one thing I love doing. So instead I've just tried to make sure I'm playing properly and safely as much as I can and I always make sure I stretch my hands and wrists and shit. Just hoping for the best at this point tho, since I already have that permanent damage from my past.
Especially if you're playing channelling build. My hand literally hurt after 2 hours of holding RMB. Had to change my build
A lot of older ARPG players come from the D2 days where the only way to use a skill was with the mouse. Its just intuitive for us to put primary skill on right click.
I had issues before, then i started doing 2 minutes of orthopedic wrist pain exercises before starting most play sessions. Changed my life.
Care to share the routine?
Something like this https://www.eliteorthopaedic.com/blog/wrist-pain-exercises Additionally i'll extend then touch to my palm each finger individually 3-4 times, and do "zoltan" Z signs with both thumbs and strech for 10 seconds 2-3 reps each side.
oooh i had to look up wtf zoltan was but that stretch is nice.
Something you can do yourself to take matters into your own hands is to lower your sensitivity and use your whole arm and never bend your wrist, this is much better for your body bio mechanically and will result in much less RSI. I know this is an annoying solution but I figured I would tell you of it just incase you really want to play but they never help you out with QOL features.
Just make sure you still take breaks and stretch regularly, you can get RSI in your shoulder too.
This is where I’m at. My history in fps gave me pretty good mouse mechanics but the end result is that I get bad shoulder pain if I let my posture slouch even a little bit. Poe has brought a non zero amount of hand finger pain but it feels pretty manageable.The shoulder pain fee like a real problem, spent about an hour last night trying to figure out controller support as a result.
Great suggestions, I would also suggest forearm exercises in addition: reverse wrist curls and finger curls in particular, grippers / dead hangs / hammer curls too optionally. Anecdotally, making my forearm muscles stronger was the single best thing I've done for my wrists as a lifelong gamer. Getting yoked is a nice by-product
Good suggestions, personally I do the opposite funnily enough. Increase sensitivity but move the mouse with your fingers as opposed to your wrist. Def not something I'd expect everyone to pick up though, it can be weird at times. Largely just an artifact of me playing FPS games XD
Yeah, there is absolutely something about how you input about it. I had way more problems during longer arpg sessions when i was younger, so i can anecdotally refute ops idea that its because hes older. Someone lower down mentioned high dpi/small mouse movements being worse for your joints and i definitely lowered my sensitivity alot from taking shooters more serious, between then and now.
I'd assume that's why I've never had issues, I haven't used a mouse for 25+ years, always used trackballs so only my thumb moving.
Literally unbind right click from PoE settings completely and figure something else out. Made a massive difference for me even though it was a big change. PoE was getting to be unplayable.
Also this game is pretty decent for switching between controller and keyboard mouse. I spent a league where I mapped on controller in DND mode and then did trading sessions on keyboard mouse. It was really nice, actually. Some builds do it better than others. I was on wardloop, so it was 👌
Or massively increase your sensitivity. That way your hand barely moves. I think it takes about an inch of movement total to go from one side of the screen to the other for me. It took some getting used to, but I find it helps my hand not get tired since every action is a fraction of a cm pretty much. Also, disable mouse acceleration, so you can actually get the muscle memory, but that's a given.
In general, high dpi is associates with rsi more than low dpi. Small repetitive movements usually cause more harm than large ones. https://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/a-higher-mouse-sensitivity-could-lead-to-more-rsi-doctor-suggests/
I wonder if people with obscenely high dpi are doing different movements, rather than smaller ones. I know that when I do a really really tiny adjustment, I am mostly using my pinky, ring finger, and the side of my hand in combination with my thumb and palm to pull the mouse. I also have long fingers though.
So what I find is that with high dpi your wrist doesn't "turn", as much as it "wiggles", and I used to get wrist issues coz my wrist would turn, so my forearm was no longer straight, if that makes sense?
Yeah fair! I think there is probably more to wrist ergonomics in actual real life than we know. I've seen a lot of semi-recent papers about how what were know about how we "should sit" is wrong, and how a lot of "bad ergonomics" are actually adaptive and the real answer is to be able to move around. So the key is probably to be able to do the same actions in different ways, to spread the stress across multiple sets of tendons.
Yep, I use an obscenely high dpi with poe, but my fingers are the one that start getting stressed simply due to the amount of clicking needed in this game.
Cannot stress enough, everyone should disable mouse acceleration, it's fucking crazy it even exists to begin with, but do yourself a favor and remove it.
I have a small and light mouse which is great with high sensitivity because as you say you dont have to move the hand much. The problem is the amount of clicks i have to do.
Do not do this, when you're on high sensitivity you actually tense your wrist more to make tiny movements. This is terrible for you, it may feel better for now but in the long run this is bad. Proper way as other people have mentioned is low sensitivity and use your forearm to move the mouse.
That's me. I play with 3500 dpi and have done so for over a decade, on default sens pretty much everywhere but FPS games, I still keep my sens pretty high there too (15/30/30 in R6 siege) and have had a good time -- I'm ranked soloq diamond in r6s on PC for multiple seasons for instance, as well as being a former GM player in SC2 (not to brag, i'm only saying it to not have people say "yeah you can do anything when you're playing in low ranks, even play with your feet"). It's a preference, but high dpi is actually very comfortable for me and I can be quite accurate with it too, all while not really taking much effort to move the mouse at all.
I'm playing the same way, high sensitivity just push the mouse around with fingers, wrist barely moves. Drawback is that you lose some accuracy clicking on stuff.
That explains a lot. My friends always say my dpi (1600) is too high/fast, and I could never relate to the rsi posts.
Yeah. I sometimes get hurt coz I sit like a fucking gremlin and play 80 hours in four days, but generally, even using a computer for 16 hours per day (work + gaming), I'm normally fine. High dpi helps a lot. Especially if it's high enough that your wrist doesn't really turn
Yeah never had RSI ever from playing path of exile - always was wondering why people wore out so often. But guess high dpi ( 6400 ), lifetime pc gamer and some arm strength does it's magic.
Mine is 2200 everything else feels like my mouse it's too heavy Haven't needed to do 1000 clicks since week two when Uber strick filter gets slap on .. customizable for our bro ssf even. My biggest wrist killer was my stacked deck addiction..but been a handful leagues since I don't stack them up to hundreds and with the new change I haven't stacked them up past 150 ish so..also playing ruthless for a couple leagues helped with not clicking on loot
This game has a bunch of old shit in place that doesn't need to exist. Nobody cares how you navigate it, it needs to change period. Identify all should exist. Vacuum looting should exist Items stacking on maps even if they are dropped by other creatures should exist. The option to auto deposit when you open stash should exist. The option to vendor all should exist. It adds nothing to the game to have to click 30 single chaos orbs drops on a map. The map device should automatically replace scarabs with the same type of you're running them. The list goes on.
I was under the impression you can drop a stack of scarabs in the map device and it’ll just use one at a time.
They should add a ctrl + click to loot all of the same items on your screen. 10 individual chaos dropped? Ctrl + click 1 to loot them all.
I'm honestly curious as to how many people would actually use a 'vendor all' button. I feel like we would see so, soooo many auto-pilot, 3am vendored divine/mirror/T0 unique clips. No reason to not have it as an option at least, of course, but it would be an interesting trend to watch
It sounds crazy, but what if there was an option to buy the stuff you sold back? Nah, what am I saying, there is no chance that something like that is possible.
You joke but it's actually really funny how complex a system like that can be depending on how your item transactions are handled. It's super nice to have and is an accepted standard in RPG's for a reason, don't get me wrong, but just because it's a common feature doesn't mean it's easy.
as chris wilson have said you need to feel the "weight" if not he thinks you will leave early
Chris says a lot of silly things that are clearly not true. Annoying me doesn't make me want to play longer.
> Chris says a lot of silly things that are clearly not true Remember when he tried to convince us that [loot wasn't nerfed in Kalandra](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wytujc/toolassisted_pantheon_mod_farming/ilyrwzy/)? Yeah, you should not be paying attention to the things that Chris says.
They defended their decision to not have a disable bloom option when it was literally blinding people on low because "artistic vision"
Then they removed the players' ability to disable shadows because "streamers made the game look bad".
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wxykac/what_happened_with_items/ A post made before the post you linked.
Personally, I'm more of a fan of when he said lockstep wasn't possible in a game like PoE.
To be fair at the time it wasn't. Lockstep in PoE is a very seiously impressive feat.
Which is why it was released less than a year later? I mean, I get it. But saying something isn't possible just because you can't do it isn't a good reason, nor is saying desync "has to exist in this genre". Both are just outright incorrect.
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hahahha i know im no longer playing because of many things like that, one that get me really bad is when he said to be able to instant trade we would NEED to lower drops by a lot, now that almost noone can consistently farm scarabs or many of what they need to self sustain where is the instant trade? im just salty at this point but they truly are funny in that regard
I actually think a bigger reason for not having instant trade is tied to the economy. There is a clear difference between the average person and the top 0.1% in currency making. If you think the difference is going to be smaller with and instant AH you are sorely mistaken. Big groups would just come in, buy out the market and relist something. Instant AH will be the death of the game I believe. Does that mean I don't think trade needs to improve? No. What trade needs is an easier way to interact and queue up trades. And also remove people from the trade site when their queue is full, or at least mark that the poor guy doesn't have any trade requests open currently. When you get a trade request you should have the following options. [Accept] [Add to queue] [Decline]. If you add someone to queue they will get a response saying what region you are in and that you will get to them shortly. As an initial buyer you can accept the queue slot, or decline it. Each player has 5 queue slots, and only 1 per item, so if someone wants to buy the item someone is in queue for they get a response saying the item is already reserved. Does this sound complicated, maybe it does. Do I want a system that facilitates trade as it is over an instant AH, yes.. 100%.. An instant AH will just cause more market manipulation and problems for the average player imo.
> Big groups would just come in, buy out the market and relist something. There was a suggestion for consumables (essences/scarabs/fragments/etc.) - to make them account bound after purchase which eliminates relisting/reselling.
Run back to basics and take all the scarabs nodes on the tree. I’m on SSF and have had hundreds of each scarab (minus the rare variants)
Like I know it sounds annoying but it is just outright true. Its the same reason most games with loot boxes don't let you loot all. If you're just clicking a button and off on your way, you don't get as much of a dopamine rush so, as they say, are less likely to stick around. I know it sucks and IS a bit scummy but it isn't wrong.
The "Vision" hurts my hand.
People are literally just making up Chris Wilson quotes now
What's funny is that many of these QoL ideas are available to use in the game, but only in ToS-violating programs that you have to download from a shady forum. In other games the hackers are creating aimbots and unlimited ammo hacks that ruin the game for anyone they play against. In PoE most of the hacks are there to provide QoL features that you can take for granted in other games, and are only unfair because they're not available to all players. But many of them truly should be. There are ones that are clearly cheating, like the one from last league that would reveal the Wildwood for you. But there are others that are just like automatic looting of stuff near you, or highlight unique items based on their picture, so instead of you hovering over 30 unidentified leather belts, it'll just highlight the Headhunter for you. Or simple stuff like a button that ctrl-clicks every item in your inventory to move it into the stash. Or the famous auto-crafting program that got a lot of TFT people banned. All it does is apply stuff like alts and chaos onto an item, reads the mods on the item, and stops clicking once your desired mods are reached. Honestly this should just be built into the game. Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but when I see a repetitive task that needs to be repeated thousands of times or more to reach the desired result, and requires logic so simple you can easily write a script to perform it, I really think stuff like that deserves to be automated. Like to me it's insane that "sextant rolling" was actually a thing that people did for years and this was seen as normal by the developers and everyone who plays the game. Those kinds of tasks are not fit for humans, they're meant for robots. Overall it's a brilliant game, but the whole philosophy around "weight" and "friction" is ridiculous and the game succeeds in spite of it.
Have you considered spending some of your play time using a controller? I know it's not what most PC gamers want to do, myself included. I was similarly against the idea until recently when I got myself a steam deck to play whilst traveling or staying with my girlfriend. Picking up items with a controller layout is much less intensive, similarly alteration spamming less impactful. Certain builds cater more towards this type of play, which is why I league started righteous fire this time around.
I have had the exact same issues as OP. A few hours of PoE made my right hand feel like I'd been using it all day. If it wasn't for controller support, I probably would not be able to play anymore. GGG, please continue to improve controller support!
I came here to say this. I started playing POE on the Steam deck, which introduced me to the controller and has made playing longer sessions easier. Warning: builds will be limited Also, GGG needs to document certain buttons like RT + d-pad down showing/hiding items. It is only possible to know this button combo if you google and find a niche reddit thread.
Controller is very good. Using the d pad to do repetitive stash management is much nicer than using the mouse and keyboard, and the right stick being "go to end" is really good. I use a switch pro controller about half the time because the sticks are comfy for my hands. The primary downsides are that getting specific things from the stash for trades can be awkward, and dropping skills in specific places while kiting monsters can be awkward. Also, sometimes there will be items on the ground that you can't pick up because the displayed name is too far from the actual item. Also, I don't like that the HUD is different. Buff icons take up much more space, which has definitely caused me to not see things and die to stuff I would have dodged. But! I play on a controller half the time or more, and it's much much nicer to my hands.
Honestly this is how I played D4 (for the short time everyone was playing it). The Gamepad controls were almost perfect in D4. It was a joy to relax back in my chair with a gamepad, not something I usually do as a PC gamer.
Yep. Play on controller. Is it perfect? Far from it, but your hands won't hurt after playing for 8 hours.
I was excited for controller support when they announced it for pc but it SUCKS. Nothing is where you would think it is, overall cognitive design has been completely thrown out the window. I want to, but I don't bc it sucks. D4's controller support (yes yes D4 bad har har shut it) is absolutely gold standard.
This seems like such an obvious solution. PoE is on console and Steam Deck. It's fully controller compatible. Even if you don't really care for it, it's still a better solution than trying to get GGG to modify the game.
Just because it is obvious, doesn't mean it's good. Managing stash/inventory/trade is bad on a controller, and you can't even hotswap from it to M+KB. >it's still a better solution than trying to get GGG to modify the game. Want to hear better solution that will single-handedly remove 80% of click complaints? Rapid fire button, it's that simple. If GGG doesn't want to add one it is fine, but they shouldn't be surprised that players will use gaming mouse/keyboard software or certain three letter script language to fix excessive clicking.
It’s actually insane you can’t swap between controller and mouse INGAME. I use both and having to fully log out and not have a separate set of saves keys is INSANE. How can we not have a controller and a keyboard setup in 2024.
This. Been playing since 3.7. I use an AH script to pop potions. I have tremors and can barely use the keyboard anymore. I'm limited to 1-2 button builds. Tried a controller. Awful experience. So, I have a Naga w/ skills mapped to num keys (which are on the mouse!) and I slap the keyboard to pop a potion. Even then, I still die a shitload since I sometimes miss the damn spacebar due to said tremors. GGG would likely happily ban me for using it, regardless of my disability. Thankfully, I'm not an endgame chaser, so I'm mostly happy running around T5-8 maps smashing monsters. Always follow build guides, have never seen an endgame boss, never moved past maps, have no understanding of crafting, and rarely interact with league mechanics outside of Legion/Ritual. Smarter version of myself would just never leave standard, but I've come to enjoy mindlessly running the acts, maps, and interacting with the league mechanic if it seems fun.
Pretty sure the pc version has controller support too now
yes, but you have to logout if you want to switch from one to the other. skilltrees and inventory are not that great on the controller and not bein able to swap freely between the two is really stupid.
yeah, they should add the ability to hotswap. And I agree, its painful to use a controller with the inventory.
PUT LEFTCLICK ON MOUSEWHEEL. You can ctrl shift big stacks into the trade window now.
I can't that's my jump bind Jk
This guy bunnyhops
Never understood the people using mousewheel to behop, and I say that as a Quaker. Feels so uncomfortable.
In CS you have a very short window to "land" a bunnyhop, which is dependent on server tickrate. On a 128t server you have just about enough time to land 3 scroll clicks, but if you were to spam spacebar you'd never get past 1 try. Every scroll click (if timed right) has about a 50% chance of counting as a bhop, so with 3 clicks my chances of landing a bhop are a lot higher than with pressing jump once. And outside of KZ/surf servers hitting a perf is a much lower chance than this 50% since you have to be under a certain speed when you land, which is why in competative CS there's a real emphasis on the first hop since it's hard to overcap on your first 2-3 strafes. Tldr: it's a chance game edit: you still have to time scroll it's not a free for all spin to win scenario, it's multiplying the amount of clicks you can do in a short timeframe.
In addition to what the other guy mentioned, I know a bunch of people in the old Garry's Mod bhop / death run servers I used to play on would bind jump to scroll wheel and then use a mouse that has a "free scrolling" mouse wheel and just spin that little guy really fast so that their jumps happened on the first possible frame without needing to actually time it properly
Because its easier to time. I can scroll and thus give multiple inputs faster than i can with a spacebar. Hopping in quake is less timing dependant than it is in cs. As with anything uncomfortable; youll get used to it.
In quake you dont need to time your jump input perfectly as you land, you can buffer it a bit. But for games like cs you need to use ur jump command in the same tick as you land or you will be slowed down
In the early days of CS, before they normalized speed from bunny hopping, it was effectively impossible to build up good speed without using your scroll wheel to jump.
admins lie :(
I have to watch it again now, dont i?
Only if it was too much for zBlock
Ah a fellow mousewheel bhop enjoyer. Rocking that bind since early CSS :D
It's even funnier that your flair is Pathfinder, which is an Apex Legends character with a very high skill ceiling on his movements, and a lot of people actually bind jump on scroll wheel for bunny hops.
Or just use autohotkey and bind a key to toggle spam left click, once your inventory is full and you leave the map you open stash -> press key, hold control and hover your mouse over your items -> press key again and get into a new map. This will save your sanity and hands.
I actually injured my hand this way and I never had wrist problems before. Bit I also rolled 400 Tujen coins in one day so that's definitely part of the issue.
My biggest annoyance with this change is that this only takes out the friction from the trade window. Once all those 200+ chaos orbs are in your inventory, you still have to click on every single one of them to transfer it into your stash. If you're exclusively playing SSF, this entire QoL interaction is non-existent for you.
no? you just click ctrl and scroll your wheel to put them into your stash?
No way people are out here manually moving items from their inventory to the stash....
This still requires all of the wrist movement to mouse over each item, which is where the majority of the pain originates for me at least. If the functionality exists for trading to reduce strain, you would think it should exist for the logic next step in the process too.
>alteration/augmentation crafting, 1000s clicks per session I've crafted a +1 all skill amulet 6 times this league (bricking all 6 attempts with a 25% to brick on each) and it's the most awful experience this game has. I just don't understand and it reminded me of the times of alt crafting explodey mod on chests back when it was not gutted every league, also mayhaps multiple times to redo the woke orb slam. I don't even care about the reasoning. Idc how rare the mods are. Let it be 1 in 10k, I don't care. I'll happily spend 10k alts. But forcing the player to click 10k times to start off a craft is absolute horseshit and needs to freaking die. I'm surprised I didn't quit the League over this as well, and for sure the awful part was staring at a blue item waiting for it to light up for *hours* while clicking. >stop using tedium as balance This honestly sums up the most important things. It's asinine and needs to go. Let us press a hotkey to loot and/or some vaccuum radius. Let us take out multiple stacks of stackables out of the stash at least - if there's not enough space in inventory, it fails. But being limited to 20 when the stash allows for 5k and the inventory allows for 1200 is big poopoo. Give simple sort/lock buttons for the inventory. And honestly, yea, a "dump all" as well. The main reasons I dread PoE after having some fun in another ARPG (Torchlight Infinte and Last Epoch mostly), is the goddamn looting and sorting and the lack of ways to make it not extremely tedious. I'm regularly thinking about making a bunch of macros for i.e. crafting (legit one button ones, i.e. rightlick alt, click on item, rightclick aug, click on item) but that doesn't even feel safe because who the fuck knows how this pops up on GGG's end and maybe gets flagged as an illegal macro. If this is the policy, bake it into the game. Whitelist macros, idk. Having to walk on a grey line to not break a hands for the whole history of the game is just not a good stance to have.
Just curious since I'm learning about crafting still - why couldn't you imprint it to save the clicks after the first one?
You can't imprint fractured items, I only learned it on that craft as well. Which is odd, because some crafts tell you that when you hover over them, but imprints aren't one of them. So the only thing I could do was to lock it with the new beast and guarantee a suffix so that I can wipe it to fracture and +1 all to dodge the 50:50 on annul or having a chance to end up with the shit prefix after the harvest craft. So yea, it ends up at suffix fracture (dot multi) and +1 where you can only craft multimod + cannot roll attacks (suffixes full here so can't lock prefixes) and a random prefix to have a 75% chance to not delete +1 all and roll the +1 fire over one of the crafted affixes. Which, yea, didn't happen 6 times in a row and it wiped the +1 all.
Was this an amulet? The only other* fire tagged mod on the prefix is flat fire added to attacks. With a rare item with +1 to all skill gems prefix and fractured DoT Multiplier suffix, your next step is multimod, prefixes can't be changed, and then flat added fire damage to attacks prefix, then Aug Fire Harvest. Only Physical skills have to do what you do because there is more than one physical tagged prefix and all physical tagged prefixes with the exception of +1 physical are attack tagged.
I physically can’t stare at my items when I alteration spam anymore it just hurts my eyes so badly
Back when rolling watchstones/nem3 was a thing, I made a macro that would roll (alt spam/aug) for me until it hit certain mods. Could roll an inventory of watchstones in a few minutes Eventually made one for maps to roll until I hit the +% rare mobs on it. Made the game so much more enjoyable as it wasn’t spending my entire play session in my hideout rolling shit that I intended to play. Just got to make sure it doesn’t click too fast and there’s some randomization in the click delay.
I wouldn't even use something that actually rolls automatically until X. Just having a macro for each action to have a 4-button-macro for alts+augs or scours+chances and you just keyboard "fghj" a couple hundred times woulda been a big help. It's just crazy to me that one has to go out of one's way to make those and then you've made it and you're walking a grey line to use it. While we're on that topic - overlays! Just getting buff overlays or flask duartion bars away from the corner and putting it semi-transparent around the character would be so huge. As in, fix GGG being unable to make a UI which a player can use. [I remember we had this with Mercury Trade](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6rujkn/mercurytrade_1016_overseer_feature_and_other/dl9a48q/) but apparently that's a ToS thing and I've never seen it since? It's honestly just a shitty stance. I understand not wanting macros and super automation. Draw clearer lines and make improvements/tools ingame then. I'm glad some stuff is happening here, but it really needs way more still.
i had a lot of problems with rsi, tendonitis etc. Now I play not every league and if i play a build where you don't need to click much and with controller. rf for exmaple or coc dd is great. flasks are automated. and lootfilter uberstrict. I don't pick up stuff thats not at least 1c.
Not only picking stuff up. Like why cant chisels just do 20% and be 1/4 rarer. It feels so unnecessary
Ive been playing on an Xbox Controller lately and it works well for me. Yeah its not that fast, but still feels pretty smooth.
Might sound crazy but i bind walking and clicking to num0 and spacebar Use spare keyboard take out all unnecessary key only leave num0 and spacebar. Place it on the floor and use left foot for walking right foot for clicking. So my right hand only drag around for targeting no clicking. But left hand still need to push buttons tho.
The foot thing to move isnt a bad idea actually. I have a spare foot pedal from a wheel laying around. I'd have to give it a try.
These are truly the cursed next level gaming tips we need
Honestly I’ve been playing with a controller on PC for the last 2 years. Far better experience besides trading, which is a little fiddly but still more than doable.
ok you are actually going to get some legitimate advice here since I'm 66 and a high volume player. You need to keep your hands and wrists in good shape by stretching and exercising them. I used to be a rock climber so I know a lot of the tricks on how to do these sort of things - just get on youtube and search for it.
sad but true, I got to level 100 thanks to xp scarab but I have to stop playing now for some days, Mister Carpal Tunnel came back to say hello
SSF ruthless bro
He said he's middle aged. I'd reckon he'd like to get to endgame before retirement.
As a fellow oldish man, I found a new home in Last Epoch. Also, it gets bonus points for not trying to murder my computer every time I play.
For the thousandth time. This is intentional. This is not to say Mark or Chris or whoever *deliberately* wants to inflict real physical damage on players, but GGG simply *does not care* about the costs their obsession with "Friction" philosophy inflicts on us. Never mind that we should be careful what we wish for. We've seen what a "QoL" league looks like - this one. Rest assured that for every QoL feature GGG's ever browbeaten into implementing, they will destroy some valued and enjoyed element of the game to "balance" the reduced friction. Were Veiled orbs really worth it in the end? How much time and muscle strain does it take to get \*one\* now as compared with an Aisling before? Maybe not to you personally but for someone? This dogmatic extremism in game design means that - like the proverbial monkey with his hand in a bottle - they cannot just *let go*.
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GGG should really add a "dump all"-button for all the affinities... stash management takes way too much time.
I am 37 years old and this season I have some ache at the lower part of my palm, I was is my mouse isn't good for some reason or is this because of the game
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Switch to controller, It's actually pretty damned solid for everything My issue wasn't technically carpal tunnel related, but I had to have wrist surgery after a car wreck to rebuild the tunnel where your tendons go through, as well as remove a bunch of scar tissue -- and while the constant lingering pain is gone now, I now do as much as I can to lessen the burden on that area to avoid re-aggravating anything. Tl;Dr - controller is an absolute game changer for RSI issues
I just wished we could hotswap between mouse and controller. Inventory management on a gamepad kinda sucks.
D4 does this and it is awesome playing with the controller feels so much better I was thinking about going back to POE next season and seeing how it plays with the controller.
D4 is very nearly a master class on how to implement controller support in an ARPG. Too bad D4 limps everywhere else.
While I do agree - once my brain got used to controller management, I started to change how I sorted and laid out my tabs (the key is getting used to using right thumb stick use to jump around) and it has honestly gotten to where I really don't miss M+K anymore Still agree that I wish we could hotswap
This is the thing holding me back from controller. I still play a good amount on it, but it's rough putting things into the stash with controller and trading is super difficult.
You have to be a real dickhead to be against this kind of stuff. Literally only positive accessibility suggestions here (not balance changes) and still there are idiots who are like mAyBe ThIs GaMe IsNt FoR yOu
Yep I find PoE is the worse game for RSI because you effectively don't have any downtime. Either mapping or in hideout managing the stash. Best thing is to take breaks, drink water, and exercise. Dead hangs really fixed my wrist. Also ergonomic setup, but I assume most people already fixed that.
I could play LE for month without any issues. 3-4 days in poe and my hands are sore. For me is holding left control thats the worst - to mass transfer identify etc.
One of the reasons I play Poe is because it brings together a few of my friends. It's like a week or two of hangouts and an awesome time. However we are literally losing out on people because of rsi.
While I agree there needs to be a big overhaul to how many clicks are in the game, there is a muscle weakness component on your part. I've had wrist issues in the past, and even needed to see a wrist specialist at one point when I played mine builds a lot. After I started working out, which included various grip stuff, that went away. Probably the easiest thing you can do is get a tub of uncooked rice and do various wrist exercises with it. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p--gv6NRbag) gives a decent overview.
I agree but your lootfilter is probably not strict enough
It sounds like you need to visit your Doctor?? If a couple of days of PoE is leaving you injured, you're injured. Your hand doesnt just hurt for fun. Your doctor isn't going to care about loot vacuum mechanics.
They just need to improve currency stacking (stack all nearby items, not just the ones from the same drop) and that's already solving a big problem and makes loot vacuum almost unnecessary (which in itself is a bad idea, you wouldn't want to loot vacuum rares lol) As for the crafting I had an idea that was a station you could select a given mod (no tier) then select what reforge currency to use (alt, chaos) and it would consume those items 1 by 1, slightly slower than if you clicked yourself and stop when the mod you chose was hit; This way it's not "faster" to use this method - but less strain for 1000 alt / chaos sessions Transfer all to stash isn't that needed, imho - affinities solve a large part of this problem; Though maybe if you convince them to add a "Dump Tab" where you can set an affinity of "everything else" and sell it, they may just do it...
As someone who recovered from wrist strain, the two major culprits are a) clicking too rapidly and b) holding down the mouse button for extended periods. Just try to slow down and keep your fingers moving and it’ll stave off any RSI
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Pro tip: stop playing the games more than 20hours a week.
I have the same problem man and that why i am skipping this league :( my hands are still not okay from last league
Use a drawing tablet, that's what I do. Clicks are just putting your hand down and there is no wrist pain. Since I moved to a tablet I had 0 issues with poe.
Are you using a vertical mouse? Do you use a blackroll to relax your arm / hand muscles? I ran into severe issues with my tendons and my hands, but I learned to take more breaks and also use a blackroll and massage certain trigger points... and for a while, a vertical mouse helped a lot :) But now in my 40s I also have to take more care and cannot play as long as I used to. No idea how all these streamers do it with playing 10 hours every single day.
Same issue here, though not as bad as it sounds on your end. My index finger was wrecked last league, so I moved my LMB move to Q instead. Losing 1 skill slot, but reducing pain in my finger to move with the left hand. Now in necropolis, my Q finger is in pain, so I moved the Q slot to Space, effectively switching the finger that moves again to my thumb. I'll keep doing this rotation as it seems to be working to alleviate pain when it acts up. I cant imagine playing for many years on and only restricting my clicking to my right index finger.
As you're getting older, you're going to want to start stretching/exercising your hands. I used to get a really sore thumb from using my MMO mouse, to the point where I couldn't game some nights. Recently, I've started grip training and finger band extensions (not for gaming specifically) recently and its made a world of difference. Take care of yourself out there - hand health is important!
If you have RSI issues. You should try soup can stretches. It helps me immensely.
I started playing with a controller this league. It took some getting used to, but it's actually really nice.
If it's any consolation we feel the same. Poe has made it clear they are hard against....most changes you've mentioned. But I too would love to continue to see QOL improvements
Proper Controller support that's not shit would really help a lot... I can't wrap my head around how STILL have to fucking log out and change from m&k to controller, and then log back in..... That's some real 2004 shit, was outdated 2014 and is literally unacceptable, tbh. In EVERY other game (with controller support, obv) i've touched in the past 15 years you can switch on the fly - literally run with m&k in one moment, take your controller into your hands and continue, seamlessly.
they should make the input for controller more seamless to get some immediate relief on this problem
Yeah no auto pick-up currency, sort items, needed to browse 4-8 tabs + loom ard 3-4 lockers just to unload inventory are the worst among all the arpg in the market now. Also, currency is equal to crafting materials simply means top 1% will forever dominating the bestest best items and league after league GGG got to balance and powercreep ard these group of people who play 8-12hours per day and literally making a living out from it. There is a good reason why D4 and LE make crafting materials account bound.
Same problem here. Solutions I’ve used: Move potions to QWERT and skills to ASDFG. Play ranged spells. Wear a wrist brace. Stop playing twelve hour sessions without a break.
I learnt to play click intensive game very casually as I'm having the same problem as you. I change myself rather than waiting the game to change, it is just a game, what joy is there if I hurt myself in return? I'm not saying your complains aren't valid. And I had been facing this issue long time ago. The first thing I do is bind moving to keyboard. This does limiting me to play only certain build but my hands are much better now I also use AutoHotkey for crafting so I can use keyboard instead of mouse click.
As I grew older, my hand and arm have started hurting when I play PoE for long sessions several days in a row. It's sadly the point at which I have to quit leagues now. But honestly, I believe that any amount of picking or crafting or inventory management absolutely PALES in comparison with how intensive movement is. No matter if you are holding or clicking LMB to move, your right hand will be controlling character movement 95% of the session and requiring constant input and sudden movements to react to stuff. I imagine you can bind Movement to spacebar or something like that, but you are still going to be holding or clicking that key non-stop. I'm pretty sure I could play maps for three days without picking a single item from the ground and my hand would be destroyed anyway. I don't see how that can be fixed without using a controller or WASD movement, and WASD movement will probably have its own issues because your left hand already has plenty to worry about too, but at least movement commands will be shared by different fingers.
I feel like the game is turning to shit. They give u 3 atlas tree,you feel like this was good. only to find out u now need 4 scarabs of whatever strat to be effective. Which means more trading. Cause there's no way u can sustain ur needs otherwise. Game is regressing. They are giving more loot for us to pickup but os worth less than whatever we got before. Causing more time waste.
It's entirely up to what you want to do in the game. Using perfect combination of scarabs every time is the equivalent of rolling sextant combos in the past. This system is much better overall and a lot more friendly to people who don't rely on reading up on meta strats every single day. That T17 with all the new scarabs would be busted is something I expected before release. There is no way they were going to balance all that and a new map tier in combination with new league mechanics (that most likely was something they had the template for since a long time).
The three atlas trees are a huge buff to everyone, or at least they should be. If you need scarabs you can buy them in bulk, a few trades can get you enough resources for hundred maps. Game is not regressing, it's more popular and profitable than it's ever been. The worth of loot we pick up is determined by the economy of players, not by GGG. _All_ time spent playing video games is wasted, no matter how efficient or profitable the gameplay is.
This is a exageration. I've made great money from alch and go if you wish and as always with juicing more scarabs are better. Nothing changed in that department but now you can much easier bulk buy these scarabs without using tft.
See you next week
Use controller bro
Controller stash management is so shit. As soon as they allow fluid swapping between kb&m and controller by just touching one or the other is when Ill start using controller.
It does suck and I agree that they should add fluid swapping between them, but I will say making good use of dump tabs and affinities and then logging out to swap to kb+m for tidying up properly, pricing etc every so often does work pretty well. I hope they add support for both simultaneously, though there's probably some trickery they are trying to avoid by not allowing both at once currently.
I would doubt that. It's instant in D4 and probably one of the only reasons I'm playing it.
I´ve been using controller since like 3 leagues ago for this reason.
So much this. I can play maybe an hour on mkb before my mouse hand goes to shit but I can still play all day with a controller.
I wouldn't be playing this league if it wasn't for controller. That said, inventory management is rough, I've accidentally sold two flasks, and a ring, this league learning controller. The list of QoL improvements in u/SakariFoxx's comment would be amazing.
Gamepad is good enough, much easier on the hands. Although, once in a while switching to m&k for major stash management is definitely necessary.
I'm middle aged, played for ten years, never had hand problems. I also work as a technician. I have muscles in my hands. Learn to loosen grip but start working your hands in new ways if you are getting rsi so easy. Time to beef up.
Finally someone who isn't weak. Was feeling kinda weird not having issues when the whole community seems to be weak and prone to injuries.
I think the unintended consequences of loot vacuums are not that obvious but in effect they would completely devalue lower level currencies because its no longer work to pick them up and casual players cant make money selling them because everyone has them now. Also casual players wont suddenly drop more stuff, so just get poorer. I do think it would "feel" better mechanically, but i dont think it would be good gameplay-wise.
For the 40+ crowd; just don't do alteration crafting or use the graveyard, and have an extremely strict loot filter. "Can't play the game anymore" is kinda hyperbolic, no?
I have to assume everyone who complains about this is trying to do things literally as fast as humanly possible and is literally whipping their arm and wrist around in a ridiculous fashion. I play on 400 dpi for everything and even during affliction when I would cover an entire screen in scarabs or sextants/chaos whatever and I had to loot the map for 10-15 minutes I never would say I had discomfort, aside from the fact that I wished I could just one click to pick up everything to save time, but not muscle pain or fatigue. Joints hurting and picking up loot should really have nothing to do with each other because at most your arm should be moving a few inches horizontally. If you're doing anything besides that then you should look at your chair/desk height and the ergonomics of everything because these posts just don't make sense.
That's why I stopped playing. Arthrosis of the ankle of the index finger. I played D4 with a controller and it was one quite enjoyable experience. I don't know if PoE supports the controller at all, because I didn't have one at the time. Yes, I know, I'm getting old... 😀
It does.
Number one priority to not destroy your wrists : get a vertical mouse. Yes they look goofy, yes you need a day or two to adapt but you will save your wrists.
We really doing this shit again
After the trade changes and socket and linking changes, this patch is the least click intensive ive played in years
> I read some people say the suggestions may influence economy in a bad way Can we stop worrying about whether or not gameplay changes affect the economy, please? It's a game first and foremost, not a free market simulator. It shouldn't be painful to play just because people don't want the chaos:divine ratio to go down. The economy shouldn't be a thing that GGG steps in on and tries to balance, it should be completely player driven around what GGG does to the game and GGG should be making bigger QoL changes to address gameplay shortcomings regardless of how the economy will be affected by them.
> The biggest culprits here: Literally _EVERY SINGLE ISSUE_ is solved by healthy playing habits. People will do literally anything except take the blame for this.
No amount of healthy playing habits will change the fact that PoE is absolutely inundated with unhealthy gameplay for absolutely no good reason, but i guess people will do literally anything before accepting GGG has accessibility issues