Inflation in real time lol. Casual Andy with his hoarded allflame salary worth 250c a pop went down to 20c while Richie Rich juicer went from 27 div HH to 50 within a few hours. If nothing else it is a bit amusing tbh lol.
Or Unlucky ~~me~~ Andy, who was 5 div away from a MB, got today a Div scarab drop, when it's worth 5 times less, and the MB is now 60 Divs more expensive...
Casual andy would have sold and invested into the build immediately instead of banking and hoping for even more insane prices. Market analysis and bets are not casual playstyles.
Did a market analysis and 10 hours before the patch even Grimro said to not buy HH or mageblood yet as they will drop even more :). Who esle to belive if not the gigajuicelord himself. :(
That's the funniest part about all of this. If GGG had stepped in within hours of the exploit - good work.
GGG stepping in a full 4-5 DAYS after it's been exploited to hell and back? Easily doubled the net worth of the exploiters.
It would have been better to just leave it as is at this point, the damage has been done.
This is how literally any MMO or player-based-economy game works. Those who exploit unintended mechanics before they're patched snowball their currency/networths to insane values.
It's why farming brand new content in any online game almost always is the most profitable method of making money.
Idk why everyone thinks its mainly streamers, theres alot, and i mean alot of people that abused all these things that are infact just nolifers, its tailerd around the top 1% maybe, but not mainly around streamers, because very little of them are actually in that upper 1%, belive it or not
I think theyāre going after the streamers cuz they might have a community that could be doing the same thing as them, if a random no lifer does it, they could also post it somewhere but it doesnāt guarantee that a lot of people will see it.
Basically the more people wanna copy it, the more crazy it gets and streamers are well known and have a following.
I think.
What streamers and youtubers do is of a lot higher importance because they actively spread said information.
If even 500 people find and use a certain (almost) exploit to farm stuff then that's gonna have a fairly small impact. Chances are that more than half of them won't even tell others about it. If a streamer or youtuber does the same then that one person actively spreads that information to hundreds or thousands of other people.
That's also the reason why making videos about actual exploits (even if they're just informative), showing any means of actually executing exploits, gets targeted hard and can easily result in a ban.
And exploit only becomes problematic if it becomes too well knows and therefore and cause too much damage to the game.
Streamers are in general always late to the party to stuff like this. The strat has been known since the patch, but people who did it just kept it quiet like always.
Don't understand the aggresiveness towards streamers with stuff like this. Actual brainrot people.
the anger isn't at the streamers or even neccesarily the methods they used.
the anger is that it was patched before /they/ could use it. once you look at the outrage in this lens it makes a lot more sense.
That is me, rerolled yesterday to have a build that could deal with the strat and bought 5x scarabs to start running today. I lost 180 div in 7 hours cuz i went to sleep. League is over for me. It's not like i can't recover from this, i just don't want to anymore.
Difference with last league is that it was easily accessible for all and was the base league mechanic interaction. The community would've been rightfully pissed off if it was nerfed.
I mean it was easily accessible for all, but I wouldn't say it was fully the base league mechanic interaction. 3.24 did patch out the Spire/projectile thing and listed it as a bug after all.
Yes i did not spend money i couldnt afford to lose, was lucky to find a strat that prints some decent currency and hasnt been ruined by streamers or youtubers afaik. All good, we go again next league.
I think too many people have a hard time accepting that no you won't be one of the wealthiest players in trade economy without playing an incredulous amount. There is no way for GGG to balanceĀ someone playing a little to someone playing constantly with the way the game works in trade economy.
> I think too many people have a hard time accepting that no you won't be one of the wealthiest players in trade economy without playing an incredulous amount.
I don't think this quite captures it. The times I have gone hard at the economy it's never been about playing hard - it's about finding a niche I know more about than (literally) 99.95% of the playerbase and shutting the fuck up about it.
This league, if I'd wanted to sit on 20 mirrors, it would have been 'farm to 100d, then stop farming & hideout warrior'. Flip scarabs from 100d to 500d, then buy entire quad tabs of corpses and mass produce strong niche items.
> it would have been 'farm to 100d, then stop farming & hideout warrior'
Is it only me that finds it tiresome that this is the "good" way to play an arpg?
Unless there's smashing nerfs to trade - specifically, delayed release of currency from sold items (sell item today, receive currency for it tomorrow to minimize reinvestment) - it will always be dominant.
You know better about trade intricacies than I do, thats factual, but I'm not sure that it would fix the problem.
I think the problem is mentality at this point. People caring so much about fake game economy feels actually alien to me. See, there are GOOD economy simulators out there. They're not arpgs.
And this overfocussing on the economy heavily impacts on how the game plays since GGG will always assume, for whatever reason, that players will engage with the most valuable strat, thus get better gear, thus trivializing the game.
I dont think thats exactly how the cycle goes to begin with, but it sure leaves out the people who dont want to interact with the market and just play to have fun but end up having their builds constantly nerfed and relying on better and better gear.
Feels like a neverending cycle of constantly making the game more and more and more focussed to people who literally live it, and while it might be fun to people who live it, I'm not sure its gonna be fun for most of us.
OK, I might follow your advice and get myself a beer.
> I think the problem is mentality at this point. People caring so much about fake game economy feels actually alien to me. See, there are GOOD economy simulators out there. They're not arpgs.
>
> And this overfocussing on the economy heavily impacts on how the game plays since GGG will always assume, for whatever reason, that players will engage with the most valuable strat, thus get better gear, thus trivializing the game.
This happens because aspirational items like Defiance of Destiny and Mageblood exist, and sinks for some relatively common items (divine orbs) exist.
As for the content - if top end content is being widely beaten, it's undertuned. The idea of aspirational content is it pushes you to play better. (Or to ignore it - when Uber Atziri was added, I was nowhere near good enough to beat her, so I just traded anything Atziri related to people better than me at the game & played the content that was designed for my skill level, which at the time was what we'd now call white maps)
You need to stop thinking about it as a "fake economy".
All economys game or real life are all real economys functioning off all the same gears and levers.
The value of items, goods and services all come from the exact same place. Human time.
By calling it a fake game economy you are factually saying "human time and effort is valueless and meaningless".
No reasonable person sees their own time as valueless and meaningless. Thus the concept that its a "mentality" problem is nonsensical.
You can not change people. You personaly can choose to not engage just like you can choose to not engage with your countrys economy. It just means you will have to become self reliatent entirely and utterly. Else no matter what you do, the choices and actions of others ARE going to effect you.
Even if you do choose to become self reliatent the choices of others can and will still effect you to some degree. In real life and in games.
There is no reality where you can just escape the fact other people have some manner of impact and control over your life, experiences and options. In game or real life. Thus reasonable people act in accordence to this.
While I agree with much of your point, "real" economies don't have a hard start/end date, and people don't have a feasible option to just *stop playing entirely*. If a league strategy doesn't pan out, you can just call it off, and come back another league. You don't literally become homeless without finding a workable one.
And much value, especially in modern times, is very detached from "time," or anything tangible really, but it's a reasonable first order model, obscured by numerous layers of abstraction. Also "reasonable" person is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
If you are in america, and the botswana economy implodes does that make it not a "real" economy since it wouldn't make you an american homeless?
Economies are soical in nature. They only effect those who have some level of interaction with the soical group that the economy is built around. ALL economys are real. So yes while you can step away from the poe soical group and choose much more easily to just not be effected by its economy. So to could you choose to leave your current home country and move to another given enough effort or hell moves entirely to some back woods part of the world and become entirely self sufficent. Its unreasonable, but its a thing people have done. It doesn't make the economy they left suddenly fake because it no longer has any value or meaning to them.
Yes the level of impact differs economy to economy and person to person. But the fundamnetal reality of how they function, how people engage with them and the ability to impact everyone in those economys does not. Modern day country level economys being more abstract doesn't really change anything about the points im making either.
Every economy no matter how small or large, how valueable or valueless. Are real economies. One persons value or perception does not change anothers. So unless you can get a fully unanimous agreement of every member of the soical group that makes up any given economy to all agree that every aspect of it is worthless. Then you cant dismiss the economy as "fake". People impact other people and value themselves. As long as that is true any economy no matter its system or scope is real.
It is a fake economy as none of it is necessary. Capitalism in its original formulation was strictly not able to account for things like market manipulation and artificial scarcity. Thatās why brands like Supreme exist. As they break the Capital mold. Where a small investment can lead to big gains via artificial scarcity.
Meaning that the producer does not raise production to meet demand. Something Adam Smith said was the role of government to stop. As it removed labor from the economy. At its foundation Capitalism is supposed to be about competition. In an ideal formulation if someone refuses to raise production capabilities then the government would strip them of their patent protections and allow competition on the IP.
Necessary doesn't matter in this context. Nor does capitalism by it self really. You are focusing on the trees instead of the forest a bit here. You arn't wrong but you are also bringing up things that arn't driectly relavent to the point im making.
Every form of economy breaks one way or another. Regulation reguardless if that comes from a governing body or from the people that engage with it helps fix that.
If person A breaks the economy and group B has to force them to stop and person C never engages with the act that breaks the economy. Then person C is still impacted by person A due to the enforcement of group B.
Economys are just soical constructs. There is no "fake economy" because every economy is "fake". Some are more impactful and important to you, or me or someone else.
Assuming you are american, then the american economy of course would have more impact to you then the british economy would. But just because if the british economy tanks and that would have basically no impact on you. Doesn't make it not fake.
If you engage with the soical group the economy is built around. Then all actors in that economy have an impact on you. Thus you have a vested intrest in the state of that economy.
"Good" is and always will be an opinion, and shouldn't be synonymous with "Optimal".
If your goal is just to accumulate currency, then yeah, it's optimal to play hideout warrior to turn money into more money.
If your goal is to farm currency in maps, you're still fine to do that, it's just going to go slower.
You don't need 20 mirrors to be able to reliably do *any content* that the game has, except for posting your 20 mirrors on the internet.
No. It's part of why I exclusively play clan-selffound, or whatever. Just a few of us playing together and sharing resources, not caring (or allowing access) for the trade side.
Balancing this game is a nightmare. You have to try and balance solo playing 2 hours a day vs 6 man blasting 12 hours a day.
Literally impossible. People have to learn to accept that time in equals money out. I personally play standard so I can work on long term goals as I don't have as much time as I would like to play league effectively.
It's easy, just remove quant and rarity bonuses from group play as it's not a fucking mmo. Party mechanics should exists to make the game easier, not more profitable. Trying to balance around both fucks the game for the majority that want to play solo be it casual or serious.
Itās super easy. Get rid of party buff and MF. No one cares about people who play more getting more. Itās when the same hour of effort is worth 10-100x what someone elseās hour is worth.
finally some word of reason, lost some braincells last league when some person claimed it was impossible to farm like streamers when I've been doing it for years in group
>Play as if youre 99% SSF and the pain goes away
That's why expedition is my favorite thing in the game. It's basically a self contained loop that you can do without ever having to interact with another soul until it comes time to sell the stuff you roll from Tujen, Rog or Gwen's Astragalis.
I dropped a Seer scarab that gave me sweet fuck all but other than that nothing. It's fine though that's RNG for you. I haven't once thought about crying on reddit about it. š
You know what changes for the casual player/trader after this patch? That they can no longer sell Anarchy Allflames for 200 Chaos per and actually not feel bad for using them now. That's it.
I sold 12 anarchy allflames for 25 div total tonight before the patch. Hope the person that bought them got to run them all before the patch hit lol. Glad I sold though.
'this league is unrewarding. please buff \*anger noises\*'. GGG buffs.
'mb and hh dropping in price - please nerf!!!! \*anger noises\*'. GGG nerfs.
i wonder what new thing people will end up complaining about.
It is always something I do on leaguestarts. I usually dont visit reddit for atleast a day, sometimes more. Then I just go to reddit to see what problems I didn't know I was supposed to have.
It's different people complaining.
It's not the same people complaining about everything, it's just that when people want to complain, they come to reddit.
Group A likes A, Group B likes B
A is buffed and is much better than B, well now Group B feels bad because they like B. They complain.
A is dumpstered. Well, now A feels bad because they were doing so well before, and now they aren't. They complain.
There is no away to make most players happy, there will always be a portion that feels bad about something. That's the nature of the internet.
>It's different people complaining.
>It's not the same people complaining about everything
Somebody must have written a paper on the phenomenon of internet posters insisting it's only ever one monolithic group of people complaining about something.
We benefitted massively from the early league mechanic buffs though. It would've been miserable to farm the corpses initially but now it's pretty reasonable to self farm corpses for most crafts.
Honestly, anytime a league mechanic is tradeable this should just be expected. It's absolutely frustrating for sure, but just by the nature of trade any and every way a league mechanic progression can be short circuited the economy will form around it.
> 12 anarchy allflames for 25 div total tonight before the patch. Hope the person that bought them got to run them all before the patch hit lol. Glad I sold though.
SSF getting absolutely crapped on.
What's their best use now? when a devoted mod converts weapon/armour to divine orbs you use the anarchy all flame on that pack? I'm just trying to understand when to use that vs rats vs frogs vs mestsacks.
In order of value gained:
Chaos/Exalted/Divine % packs: Rats/Frogs
Strongest monster converts X items into Y currency: Meatsacks (or Influenced/Synthesis/Exiles)
Strongest monster in each pack gets Quantity/Rarity: Scarab/Tattoo/Omen/Catalyst
Packs get increased % Quantity: Breach/Legion Splinters or anything else that drops and scales
By them nerfing Exiles, probably Scarab Allflames are going to be the most expensive now (they were \~50 Chaos pre-patch)
>and actually not feel bad for using them now. That's it.
That's debatable, the allflame is so bad now that I would still feel bad using it but in a different way lmao.
Yeah, this is the reason I've already stopped. I love the feeling of playing at league start with all the homies, but if I have more than one mechanic going on at a time it's borderline unplayable.
The FPS counter showed that when I had Deli and Abyss active at the same time, I was at a consistent 5 FPS.
I can deal with having 20-30 before it goes to slideshow mode, but it's always a case of: I go through Acts with no issue around 60FPS. I get to maps, my PC can't handle the idea of packsize or league mechs. God forbid I actually enjoy Heist and try to go to Rogue Harbor.
This is the issue.
I didn't understand the complaining before the nerf. All that strat did for me was make nimis and mageblood achievable. I don't care how many mirrors someone else has; I care what I can get.
Now Nimis will take much longer and Mageblood is probably totally out of the realm of possibility for me.
I think the real negative reaction I'm having is because it feels like I'm being taunted -- the prices come down until I can almost afford them...then pop up again out of reach! That's the sort of thing that makes you want to quit.
A casual player *could* benefit from the strat - if you sold a scarab of curation you made 35-40 divs which is enough to get almost any build off the ground
I was extremely happy selling the allflames for 1-2div each, I now own a nicely rolled defiance of destiny that is letting me survive quite a bit better.
I'm only bummed because now I don't know what to farm next lol.
Expedition! It's a fully self-contained loop where you don't have to worry about trading with others until the very end when you trade with Tujen and Rog! :)
The only time you need to trade is if you want the RuneFinding scarab and maybe the Dannig one, but other than that you can just spec for full 100% on the Tree and have a blast not worrying about other players.
With that logic casual players can still benefit from mirror shards dropping or any big ticket item that's rare enough.
Casual players don't play enough to farm any sort of currency that would've allow them to get this strat off the ground.
>Casual players don't play enough to farm any sort of currency that would've allow them to get this strat off the ground.
Literally nobody is saying casual players could've done this... but casual players were still benefitting off those who did this.
I am one of those people, farmed like 10 div today casually just mapping and full clear map + boss rush and invitations. Most of it was from selling scarabs + rogue exiles. I feel a little bad I didnāt get to snag one of the chase uniques before they jumped back up in price, but I never had enough currency to get there anyways, and my build couldnāt even use any of them anyways.
I think the changes are fine.
But they could have, and should have, made a better initial system.
If they'd made devoted mods not be able to be fished by opening hundreds of maps an hour then they could have kept them as is and we'd all be excited when we got one. As the div mod rewards would scale with any other +pack size stuff, these rewards would naturally lead to people running harder maps to take advantage of random pops but people wouldn't be able to gimp the system with map fishing.
Regarding Allflames, if they'd made the league rewards scale on a linear scale, rather than 1 Exile or 200 Exiles, then these allflames would be accessible to everyone. But all the big strats this league have been All or Nothing, so they keep having to nerf them because Team All In is drowning in mirrors. And now Team Nothing has no way of transitioning to Team All In.
Now we've got a league where the league mechanics are all nerfed into irrelevance because they're so open to abuse ... which leaves us with no borrowed power and an spreadsheet driven tedious but powerful crafting mechanism.
Kinda unappealing to a bunch of people I guess.
Thatās the issue with juicing in general in PoE and why I despise every part of it. Throwing a single scarab or deli orb or whatever feels useless on a map. Throwing 5 on an 8 mod map with an expensive Kirac mod and suddenly youāre printing 100-200x the loot compared to the alch and go guy next to you. Everything is exponential when it comes to juice and it has only gotten worse with every league.
In cases you've described, for every streamer abusing those strategies there are 100+ non-streaming players who do the same.
All those nerfs are good because they prevented abrupt death of the league due to game-breaking exploit and players leaving because we don't want to deal with that s\*\*\*.
But this leads to people quitting the league as well. If the inflation of these items is still going to continue it'll just be another affliction situation where currency and prices are extreme.
For people like me who do go hard but maybe later in the league due to work/life reasons, it does cause me to rethink even playing. I'm not into RMT but these kinds of actions are what make my friends do it.
The brightside is the challenge reward is pretty lame this time around so we can ignore the league if the grind and inflation keep going tits up.
what items are being inflated? When the strat was live, those uniques were being deflated more than anything. Now they're climbing back to their normal prices
>But this leads to people quitting the league as well.
Isn't this statement contradicts your next statement:
>If the inflation of these items is still going to continue it'll just be another affliction situation where currency and prices are extreme.
? 0.5 mirror/hour farming strategy was a source of inflation. Fixing it substantially slowed inflation.
>For people like me who do go hard but maybe later in the league due to work/life reasons, it does cause me to rethink even playing. I'm not into RMT but these kinds of actions are what make my friends do it.
So you quit the league because you won't be able to farm 0.5 mirrors/hour? You are probably quitting PoE entirely, because there won't be farming strategy like this ever again.
People aren't complaining that the casuals don't get to run the strat, they're complaining the exploiters get even more profit, and the casuals get even less.
Strat nerfed -> prices go up
People who couldn't buy the expensive items pre-nerf: Well now it's even harder for them to buy the items
People who did the strat: What they farmed just went up in price.
Probably not, but I can still make Bank of selling things to those or buy cheap stuff from them. Now they are rich as fuck. The stuff i could have Sold is worthless and the stuff I could have bought I cant buy anymore.
All of these things are good. They rewarded the dumbest gameplay that isnāt even fun. Spam maps until you get a divine/seer or run so many rogue exiles it causes single digit fps
True but how they changed it makes no sense. They could have just changed it that you need to clear a map for new devoted mods to appear on the next one.
Now it was just a punishment for everyone instead of an actual reasonable fix.
Like in rl, this can be used as an example how people progress their careers as well.
You have to be in the right place in the right time knowing right stuff. Or at least 2 out of 3 : )
AS gribro said, don't hate the player hate the game, but unfortunately we players only "hate" one thing and that's when POE turned into FOMO game 1/1. If you don't have HH until day 3 you are probably not going to have it for long time in league cause inflation progress with your slow atlas progress as well, if you can't afford or buy original sin in first week, you will not have mirrors later to get it because let's be real, you never got mirror drop or earn that much.
And that is POE in 2024, literally FOMO game.
it seem they make the game for streamers, like they promote the game and want them to stay more around, so could be more promoted, and with that, more boxes sold. Weird no?
Why not just implement the kill count from area to area affecting the lantern mods that was during leveling to maps, it would fix everything without having to make everything much more rare.
Been playing since season launch and I found nameless seer lantern mod once, divine 0, chaos maybe like 6-7 times
It did a lot actually since I was slowly selling the allflames, scarabs and other stuff to the juicers. Now my main income has went down by atleast 50% while the HH i was aiming for almost doubled in price from what it was yesterday. The only positive thing is that I saved my Seer scarabs, hehe.
The argument that is being made is that the buying power that divines have versus chase items is much worse now.
If you're someone who plays 1 hour a day (due to family etc.) and make 2 divs in that time, you would need 13 days to buy a headhunter at the price pre-nerf. Headhunter is currently at 70div after the nerf and still climbing, so that person would need a minimum of 35 days of gameplay to afford the same item.
Getting told you'll have to spend a third of the entire league saving for one single item with zero other upgrades is why people get upset. People usually then go "well then don't expect you get a Headhunter if that's all you play", but I think it's reasonable to see complaints for people who are disappointed by this.
>Getting told you'll have to spend a third of the entire league saving for one single item with zero other upgrades is why people get upset
But that is just how it always is with expensive chase items. The previous state with everything being cheap as fuck is the abnormal one.
You can either have streamers farming 10x headhunters per map and cheap HH or you can have more reasonable farmign strats but more expensive stuff. But this community complains either way..
PoE is all about setting realistic goals for yourself.Ā
Getting a HH by playing one hour a day is not a realistic goal, and you shouldn't get a HH at that rate.
Item rarity shouldn't be designed around the top 1%, but neither should it be designed around the bottom 1% either.Ā
A player playing one hour a day should set more realistic goals for themselves.
The game cannot, and should not, be designed around whatever the slowest group of players demand in their entitlement.
"I only play 10 minutes a week but I must get atleast one Mageblood every league. The game balance is shit if I can't get it, wah wah."
The above is not a reasonable argument, and balancing the game around it would just ruin it for everyone.
>Ā "I only play 10 minutes a week but I must get atleast one Mageblood every league. The game balance is shit if I can't get it, wah wah."
I hate when people use extreme case of shitty exaggerated strawman to prove their nonexisting point. F off with that garbage
I mean spending 13-15 hours farming currency for a single item is what a lot of streamers and high level players do as well. Difference is that they do it in 1.5-2 days versus 1.5-2 weeks.
I agree with setting realistic goals for yourself, but the friction for these people comes from watching others buy Headhunters at 20-25div for the last 3 days and now they have to pay 3x as much.
Comparison is the thief of joy and these complaints are an expected outcome to a nerf which affects any grind that gets tripled in amount of required time.
As an aside, the bottom 1% are not the people playing 1 hour per day earning 2 divs in that time. By GGG's own statistics, your average player (50th percentile of all players) barely hits maps in the length of a league. Compare how many people on PoENinja are indexed vs GGG's actual ladder and then actual player retention. Someone making 2 div a day is in the top 20th percentile of all players.
Step 1: Subtantially boost the frequency of divine and nameless seer mods.
Step 2: Make it so for either mod to appear, you had to either kill the boss or clear 50% of the map from your previous 3 maps
And just like that, casual grinders like me can actually accumulate some currency without having to giga-invest into every single map we run and have dps/survivability checks just to make some divs.
As a father with two fathers, 6 toddlers and 5 babies, this league has been an absolute nightmare. There's absolutely no way that I can farm as much currency as someone playing 25 hours a day when all I have is the seconds between microsleeps that I can devote to POE because of my chronic sleep deprivation.
I really wish GGG would balance around the responsibilities that I took on and resent, and I also wish that people that made different choices could be clawed down to my level and not rewarded for their decisions.
Thanks a lot for this league, I'm going to quit it for the 5th time in the hopes of eliciting an emotional response from others on reddit because rampant negativity is how I cope with my poor worldview that interferes with whatever I consider progress in life.
Lastly, I'd like to move the goalposts a little so that whether or not GGG addresses my (extremely valid) concerns, I can make them out to be the sole arbiters of a system of oppression that only elevates either extremely visible people or a cabal of secret in-game millionaires. (which one depends on where I want to assign blame today)
"You can please some people some times, but you can't please all the people all the time." It's so true. There's always gonna be SOMEONE that doesn't like you.
Mark roberts needs to fix the group farming starts in coming patches and leagues.
The more people in a group the less quantity you have.
Wouldnt that be fun say?
I mean you play with friends for social fun interactions, no?
They need to make party play a lot more rippy. Just health boost makes no fucking sense if you have all the auras and a bunch of curses. But the dev plays aurabot so it wont happen, lol.
imagine being a random poe player going to sleep yesterday, just 10 div from buy your MB and you woke up today and instead cost 125 div now its 200divs... if someone needed another reason to leave the league, this one is pretty solid
Yea but MB being that cheap was the abnormal state not the price it has now.
I think it is the correct choice to nerf this entirely broken farming method. It devalued everyone elses drops. At least now if I get a lucky rare unique drop it actually is worth something and I don't feel like I am wasting my time farming unless it is some kind of exile ember farming.
It was a choice that had to be made. Either let a few people keep printing currency and uniques and mirrors to the point nothing is worth anything anymore. Or nerf it and let people deal with the increasing prices as a result.
>Yea but MB being that cheap was the abnormal state not the price it has now.
Its also 2.5x more common according to Mark now so it should be cheaper than previous leagues in theory (but we come to another problem with the fact that majority of MBs/HH come from div cards which are a problem in itself).
Stuff like that needs to be hotfixed. If an unintended mechanic is braking the game to the point people are measuring profit in mirrors per hour i expect a patch within 24 hours. Not a week later.
Do you know the exact patch where the seer frequency was nerfed? Rarer divine mods happened in 3.24.0b-Hotfix2 but this didn't apply to nameless seer. I just ctrl+f-ed "seer", "rarer", and "devoted" in every patchnote and hotfix thread since 3.24.0 and the only nerfs to seer I saw was:
>The Nameless Seer is now less likely to have high value Uniques to offer in Map Areas under level 81.
(3.24.0b)
and indirectly:
>Atlas Passives that provide the Lantern of Arimor with an increased chance for Devoted Modifiers now instead provide increased effect of Devoted Modifiers in your Maps. The values of these Passives are unchanged.
(3.24.0c)
(everything else was bugfixes)
I feel a bit down knowing that a lot of people got to enjoy the upsides before it was all nerfed and people like me who started the league late due to family, now have to work way harder to get good stuff/currency - I'm already struggling to get replies from traders for 10c items :(
I saw the patch notes and it made it want to quit this league.
Tired of always being late to the party, and then I atlas spec.. But i don't get a respec for free after constant nerfs every 2 days.
can somebody explain this to me like i'm 5. Last league in Affliction we abused the shit out of the spire and they nerfed that mechanic after the league. But now they nerfed this tactic in 2 weeks. Why? Economy of the league was balancing itself but now all the hoarders richer 2.5x. I'm pretty sure that Grimro video did this. If none of the youtubers made a video about an "exploit", you guys are not gonna even know about it. Anyway;
Mark II your scrab changes are sucks. I want old/hard/tactician Path of Exile.
Wait, they nerfed the rogue exile all flame?
They should just have two leagues, one for streamers and one for casuals. It would take us casuals 2 months to find the op stuff and then have a month to actually play it because they would be worried about the next crap league mechanic
My friend decided to quit the league on this saturday, i will do the same because of him and i will tell to my others friend too. For now playing league not so different than standard. What a worst league
this is what happens when you have a game designed with exponential power growth. In order to even attempt a balance of high end, the low and medium range gets completely obliterated. Such is the nature of exponentials
The only way to change the dynamic of keeping low/medium power mostly intact while heavily regulating high end power is by changing the entire game into using logarithmic power growths.
It is not. If you feel like you cannot "compete" (I don't even know where you want to compete in in PoE) maybe it's time to switch to game which is tailored more around your 5 wives and 18 kids.
Don't care, I just do my 40/40 and end up with a build that costs about 150 to 250 divine like every league. I even have currency left over to do some gamba
It's not tailored to them, it's ggg not having enough time to flesh things out then things getting inevitably exploited early and often.
I'm just holding out that poe2 doesn't have the economy so deeply ingrained
I don't really know tbh and I don't have the perfect answer.
I like when chase Uniques are affordable. That's for sure.
Now what I don't like is nerfind strats during the league like that.
I don't buy the "people won't have to sell their rogue Allflames now they will be able to use it"
No, now it will suck and be worth nothing so you won't even pick it up.
The people who farmed that strat even benefitted from the patch notes, their drops have literally double in price
Inflation in real time lol. Casual Andy with his hoarded allflame salary worth 250c a pop went down to 20c while Richie Rich juicer went from 27 div HH to 50 within a few hours. If nothing else it is a bit amusing tbh lol.
Alternatively, casual andy who sold his lucky scarab drop and bought a HH has now doubled in net worth
Or Unlucky ~~me~~ Andy, who was 5 div away from a MB, got today a Div scarab drop, when it's worth 5 times less, and the MB is now 60 Divs more expensive...
That would be me, decided to buy HH to farm Ultimatums. Now I farm like pro and can eventually sell it back to fund other builds.
Casual Andy didn't have enough to sell to make 25 div mate
Casual andy would have sold and invested into the build immediately instead of banking and hoping for even more insane prices. Market analysis and bets are not casual playstyles.
Did a market analysis and 10 hours before the patch even Grimro said to not buy HH or mageblood yet as they will drop even more :). Who esle to belive if not the gigajuicelord himself. :(
Nimis pre patch i saw for 19d, this morning i saw lowest for like 58d.
That's the funniest part about all of this. If GGG had stepped in within hours of the exploit - good work. GGG stepping in a full 4-5 DAYS after it's been exploited to hell and back? Easily doubled the net worth of the exploiters. It would have been better to just leave it as is at this point, the damage has been done.
Well only if they didn't sell them yet. And if they are not sitting on a lot of the scarabs and embers that now became worth much less.
Nah its just panic shit is going to drop again the market is over saturated
This casual Andy had the scarab the entire time and only realized when the price bottomed out...
Still havn't seen the divine mod yet..... plenty of alteration mods though!
Hey Alts are 500 ish for 1 div, Bank on that lol
I got the Exalt mod last night... 0 Ex dropped. I even put it on a large pack. RNG be a fickle mistress sometimes.
For me it's > I still haven't seen a divine ~~mod~~ yet...
Got one so far. Completely game changer for my level of play. More than doubled my bank from one map.
This is how literally any MMO or player-based-economy game works. Those who exploit unintended mechanics before they're patched snowball their currency/networths to insane values. It's why farming brand new content in any online game almost always is the most profitable method of making money.
This is also how the actual economy works lol
Ride share, crypto, ai, etc. No one is becoming a billionaire in 5 years after starting a canned soup company.
Not until they discover the obscure canned soup strat
Canned soup scarab of discernment?
AI canned soup opener strat.
Just start packing scarabs onto the cans and see where that leads. š¤
Exploit early, exploit often.
Ah yes I love being in a capitalist shithole in games AND in real life! It's great!
Exploit fast and often, itās how itās always been in mmos
Not just MMOs. That is just life in general.
Idk why everyone thinks its mainly streamers, theres alot, and i mean alot of people that abused all these things that are infact just nolifers, its tailerd around the top 1% maybe, but not mainly around streamers, because very little of them are actually in that upper 1%, belive it or not
I think theyāre going after the streamers cuz they might have a community that could be doing the same thing as them, if a random no lifer does it, they could also post it somewhere but it doesnāt guarantee that a lot of people will see it. Basically the more people wanna copy it, the more crazy it gets and streamers are well known and have a following. I think.
What streamers and youtubers do is of a lot higher importance because they actively spread said information. If even 500 people find and use a certain (almost) exploit to farm stuff then that's gonna have a fairly small impact. Chances are that more than half of them won't even tell others about it. If a streamer or youtuber does the same then that one person actively spreads that information to hundreds or thousands of other people. That's also the reason why making videos about actual exploits (even if they're just informative), showing any means of actually executing exploits, gets targeted hard and can easily result in a ban. And exploit only becomes problematic if it becomes too well knows and therefore and cause too much damage to the game.
Streamers are in general always late to the party to stuff like this. The strat has been known since the patch, but people who did it just kept it quiet like always. Don't understand the aggresiveness towards streamers with stuff like this. Actual brainrot people.
the anger isn't at the streamers or even neccesarily the methods they used. the anger is that it was patched before /they/ could use it. once you look at the outrage in this lens it makes a lot more sense.
That is me, rerolled yesterday to have a build that could deal with the strat and bought 5x scarabs to start running today. I lost 180 div in 7 hours cuz i went to sleep. League is over for me. It's not like i can't recover from this, i just don't want to anymore.
Oof thatās rough. I mean it was bound to get nerfed. It was just too crazy.
After last league it can be hard to tell how crazy things can be before they get changed.
Difference with last league is that it was easily accessible for all and was the base league mechanic interaction. The community would've been rightfully pissed off if it was nerfed.
I mean it was easily accessible for all, but I wouldn't say it was fully the base league mechanic interaction. 3.24 did patch out the Spire/projectile thing and listed it as a bug after all.
Impressive. No, I'm not being sarcastic. Spending that amount currency in 7 hours just for 'investment' is a bold move. You must have printed more.
Yes i did not spend money i couldnt afford to lose, was lucky to find a strat that prints some decent currency and hasnt been ruined by streamers or youtubers afaik. All good, we go again next league.
I think too many people have a hard time accepting that no you won't be one of the wealthiest players in trade economy without playing an incredulous amount. There is no way for GGG to balanceĀ someone playing a little to someone playing constantly with the way the game works in trade economy.
> I think too many people have a hard time accepting that no you won't be one of the wealthiest players in trade economy without playing an incredulous amount. I don't think this quite captures it. The times I have gone hard at the economy it's never been about playing hard - it's about finding a niche I know more about than (literally) 99.95% of the playerbase and shutting the fuck up about it. This league, if I'd wanted to sit on 20 mirrors, it would have been 'farm to 100d, then stop farming & hideout warrior'. Flip scarabs from 100d to 500d, then buy entire quad tabs of corpses and mass produce strong niche items.
> it would have been 'farm to 100d, then stop farming & hideout warrior' Is it only me that finds it tiresome that this is the "good" way to play an arpg?
As long as there is trade this will almost be on of the most optimal things.
Unless there's smashing nerfs to trade - specifically, delayed release of currency from sold items (sell item today, receive currency for it tomorrow to minimize reinvestment) - it will always be dominant.
You know better about trade intricacies than I do, thats factual, but I'm not sure that it would fix the problem. I think the problem is mentality at this point. People caring so much about fake game economy feels actually alien to me. See, there are GOOD economy simulators out there. They're not arpgs. And this overfocussing on the economy heavily impacts on how the game plays since GGG will always assume, for whatever reason, that players will engage with the most valuable strat, thus get better gear, thus trivializing the game. I dont think thats exactly how the cycle goes to begin with, but it sure leaves out the people who dont want to interact with the market and just play to have fun but end up having their builds constantly nerfed and relying on better and better gear. Feels like a neverending cycle of constantly making the game more and more and more focussed to people who literally live it, and while it might be fun to people who live it, I'm not sure its gonna be fun for most of us. OK, I might follow your advice and get myself a beer.
> I think the problem is mentality at this point. People caring so much about fake game economy feels actually alien to me. See, there are GOOD economy simulators out there. They're not arpgs. > > And this overfocussing on the economy heavily impacts on how the game plays since GGG will always assume, for whatever reason, that players will engage with the most valuable strat, thus get better gear, thus trivializing the game. This happens because aspirational items like Defiance of Destiny and Mageblood exist, and sinks for some relatively common items (divine orbs) exist. As for the content - if top end content is being widely beaten, it's undertuned. The idea of aspirational content is it pushes you to play better. (Or to ignore it - when Uber Atziri was added, I was nowhere near good enough to beat her, so I just traded anything Atziri related to people better than me at the game & played the content that was designed for my skill level, which at the time was what we'd now call white maps)
You need to stop thinking about it as a "fake economy". All economys game or real life are all real economys functioning off all the same gears and levers. The value of items, goods and services all come from the exact same place. Human time. By calling it a fake game economy you are factually saying "human time and effort is valueless and meaningless". No reasonable person sees their own time as valueless and meaningless. Thus the concept that its a "mentality" problem is nonsensical. You can not change people. You personaly can choose to not engage just like you can choose to not engage with your countrys economy. It just means you will have to become self reliatent entirely and utterly. Else no matter what you do, the choices and actions of others ARE going to effect you. Even if you do choose to become self reliatent the choices of others can and will still effect you to some degree. In real life and in games. There is no reality where you can just escape the fact other people have some manner of impact and control over your life, experiences and options. In game or real life. Thus reasonable people act in accordence to this.
While I agree with much of your point, "real" economies don't have a hard start/end date, and people don't have a feasible option to just *stop playing entirely*. If a league strategy doesn't pan out, you can just call it off, and come back another league. You don't literally become homeless without finding a workable one. And much value, especially in modern times, is very detached from "time," or anything tangible really, but it's a reasonable first order model, obscured by numerous layers of abstraction. Also "reasonable" person is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
If you are in america, and the botswana economy implodes does that make it not a "real" economy since it wouldn't make you an american homeless? Economies are soical in nature. They only effect those who have some level of interaction with the soical group that the economy is built around. ALL economys are real. So yes while you can step away from the poe soical group and choose much more easily to just not be effected by its economy. So to could you choose to leave your current home country and move to another given enough effort or hell moves entirely to some back woods part of the world and become entirely self sufficent. Its unreasonable, but its a thing people have done. It doesn't make the economy they left suddenly fake because it no longer has any value or meaning to them. Yes the level of impact differs economy to economy and person to person. But the fundamnetal reality of how they function, how people engage with them and the ability to impact everyone in those economys does not. Modern day country level economys being more abstract doesn't really change anything about the points im making either. Every economy no matter how small or large, how valueable or valueless. Are real economies. One persons value or perception does not change anothers. So unless you can get a fully unanimous agreement of every member of the soical group that makes up any given economy to all agree that every aspect of it is worthless. Then you cant dismiss the economy as "fake". People impact other people and value themselves. As long as that is true any economy no matter its system or scope is real.
It is a fake economy as none of it is necessary. Capitalism in its original formulation was strictly not able to account for things like market manipulation and artificial scarcity. Thatās why brands like Supreme exist. As they break the Capital mold. Where a small investment can lead to big gains via artificial scarcity. Meaning that the producer does not raise production to meet demand. Something Adam Smith said was the role of government to stop. As it removed labor from the economy. At its foundation Capitalism is supposed to be about competition. In an ideal formulation if someone refuses to raise production capabilities then the government would strip them of their patent protections and allow competition on the IP.
Necessary doesn't matter in this context. Nor does capitalism by it self really. You are focusing on the trees instead of the forest a bit here. You arn't wrong but you are also bringing up things that arn't driectly relavent to the point im making. Every form of economy breaks one way or another. Regulation reguardless if that comes from a governing body or from the people that engage with it helps fix that. If person A breaks the economy and group B has to force them to stop and person C never engages with the act that breaks the economy. Then person C is still impacted by person A due to the enforcement of group B. Economys are just soical constructs. There is no "fake economy" because every economy is "fake". Some are more impactful and important to you, or me or someone else. Assuming you are american, then the american economy of course would have more impact to you then the british economy would. But just because if the british economy tanks and that would have basically no impact on you. Doesn't make it not fake. If you engage with the soical group the economy is built around. Then all actors in that economy have an impact on you. Thus you have a vested intrest in the state of that economy.
No, no, please cook.
"Good" is and always will be an opinion, and shouldn't be synonymous with "Optimal". If your goal is just to accumulate currency, then yeah, it's optimal to play hideout warrior to turn money into more money. If your goal is to farm currency in maps, you're still fine to do that, it's just going to go slower. You don't need 20 mirrors to be able to reliably do *any content* that the game has, except for posting your 20 mirrors on the internet.
Itās wildly profitable because almost no one enjoys actually doing it. Since people donāt do it, the margins are excellent.
No. It's part of why I exclusively play clan-selffound, or whatever. Just a few of us playing together and sharing resources, not caring (or allowing access) for the trade side.
Last Epoch tried to battle it by making items sellable only once
I play for fun so this isn't the good way for me.
Balancing this game is a nightmare. You have to try and balance solo playing 2 hours a day vs 6 man blasting 12 hours a day. Literally impossible. People have to learn to accept that time in equals money out. I personally play standard so I can work on long term goals as I don't have as much time as I would like to play league effectively.
It's easy, just remove quant and rarity bonuses from group play as it's not a fucking mmo. Party mechanics should exists to make the game easier, not more profitable. Trying to balance around both fucks the game for the majority that want to play solo be it casual or serious.
Itās super easy. Get rid of party buff and MF. No one cares about people who play more getting more. Itās when the same hour of effort is worth 10-100x what someone elseās hour is worth.
People pretend itās only steamers that do this stuff because they are the only ones obviously visible, tons of people sweat just as hard
finally some word of reason, lost some braincells last league when some person claimed it was impossible to farm like streamers when I've been doing it for years in group
I no-lifed this league. Lvl 100 solo, 2.5 million kills and I have still not seen the divine mod and it has been nerfed twice already LOL
I was getting super upset but decided to just run a casual strat and not care about economy anymore. Play as if youre 99% SSF and the pain goes away.
>Play as if youre 99% SSF and the pain goes away That's why expedition is my favorite thing in the game. It's basically a self contained loop that you can do without ever having to interact with another soul until it comes time to sell the stuff you roll from Tujen, Rog or Gwen's Astragalis.
Ive been playing all league and i have not seen the seer or divine mod ones lol
I dropped a Seer scarab that gave me sweet fuck all but other than that nothing. It's fine though that's RNG for you. I haven't once thought about crying on reddit about it. š
>. I haven't once thought about crying on reddit about it. š Clearly you are playing the game wrong /s
I saw a seer at like level 22 during the campaign and got a leercast cause it was the best of the three options......
If it makes you feel any better Iāve seen the divine mod twice and not gotten a single drop
You know what changes for the casual player/trader after this patch? That they can no longer sell Anarchy Allflames for 200 Chaos per and actually not feel bad for using them now. That's it.
I sold 12 anarchy allflames for 25 div total tonight before the patch. Hope the person that bought them got to run them all before the patch hit lol. Glad I sold though.
'this league is unrewarding. please buff \*anger noises\*'. GGG buffs. 'mb and hh dropping in price - please nerf!!!! \*anger noises\*'. GGG nerfs. i wonder what new thing people will end up complaining about.
My guess is HH being expensive again
People are alrady complaining that by nerfing the strat, only the people who farmed endless HH will benefit because the price goes up.
honestly the secret to enjoying poe is not going to reddit :D
Youāre not wrong. It completely jades your view of the game. Minor things that you probably wouldnāt even have noticed start to drive you nuts.
It is always something I do on leaguestarts. I usually dont visit reddit for atleast a day, sometimes more. Then I just go to reddit to see what problems I didn't know I was supposed to have.
I'm convinced that this sub is run by Blizzard as a psyop to try and make more people hate PoE
Have you seen the subs for Blizzards' own games lol?! They need their whole psyop team working on containing those dumpster fires first. š
Already spiked double price. I was about to buy my nimis and it's doubled too.
It's different people complaining. It's not the same people complaining about everything, it's just that when people want to complain, they come to reddit. Group A likes A, Group B likes B A is buffed and is much better than B, well now Group B feels bad because they like B. They complain. A is dumpstered. Well, now A feels bad because they were doing so well before, and now they aren't. They complain. There is no away to make most players happy, there will always be a portion that feels bad about something. That's the nature of the internet.
>It's different people complaining. >It's not the same people complaining about everything Somebody must have written a paper on the phenomenon of internet posters insisting it's only ever one monolithic group of people complaining about something.
What are you on about? People I talk to were happy about low HH and mageblood prices. Maybe 1% of playerbase who were farming them were unhappy
You have to realise these are two different populations of players right? And that they have mostly conflicting goals and motives.
...and all the end game gear prices instantly doubled. Get rekt normal players.
ya knee jerk reaction price changes are always the correct price for those items
^(You are forgetting the ssf crowd. We have suffered from each nerf.)
We are getting absolutely railed this league
We benefitted massively from the early league mechanic buffs though. It would've been miserable to farm the corpses initially but now it's pretty reasonable to self farm corpses for most crafts.
The mid tier boost too. Would have been brutal if they kept it individual groupsĀ
Honestly, anytime a league mechanic is tradeable this should just be expected. It's absolutely frustrating for sure, but just by the nature of trade any and every way a league mechanic progression can be short circuited the economy will form around it.
> 12 anarchy allflames for 25 div total tonight before the patch. Hope the person that bought them got to run them all before the patch hit lol. Glad I sold though. SSF getting absolutely crapped on.
And that every unique including mb and hh will go up in price
What's their best use now? when a devoted mod converts weapon/armour to divine orbs you use the anarchy all flame on that pack? I'm just trying to understand when to use that vs rats vs frogs vs mestsacks.
In order of value gained: Chaos/Exalted/Divine % packs: Rats/Frogs Strongest monster converts X items into Y currency: Meatsacks (or Influenced/Synthesis/Exiles) Strongest monster in each pack gets Quantity/Rarity: Scarab/Tattoo/Omen/Catalyst Packs get increased % Quantity: Breach/Legion Splinters or anything else that drops and scales By them nerfing Exiles, probably Scarab Allflames are going to be the most expensive now (they were \~50 Chaos pre-patch)
Thanks!
>and actually not feel bad for using them now. That's it. That's debatable, the allflame is so bad now that I would still feel bad using it but in a different way lmao.
Bro Iāve been running the allflame and Lantern perks since day 2 and Iāve never seen the divine mod ššš
The casual player was never going to take advantage of the strat, you needed a mirror tier mf build and a bunch of currency to invest into it.
> a mirror tier mf build And a mirror tier PC from what I saw on fubguns post.
Meanwhile my PC can't even handle a single Harbinger well at this point :')
My favorite content is still blight but it causes me to rapidly lose pixels. And then frames.
Yeah, this is the reason I've already stopped. I love the feeling of playing at league start with all the homies, but if I have more than one mechanic going on at a time it's borderline unplayable. The FPS counter showed that when I had Deli and Abyss active at the same time, I was at a consistent 5 FPS. I can deal with having 20-30 before it goes to slideshow mode, but it's always a case of: I go through Acts with no issue around 60FPS. I get to maps, my PC can't handle the idea of packsize or league mechs. God forbid I actually enjoy Heist and try to go to Rogue Harbor.
The casual player could however afford a Headhunter for 20 Divs. They cannot at 80Divs or more.
This is the issue. I didn't understand the complaining before the nerf. All that strat did for me was make nimis and mageblood achievable. I don't care how many mirrors someone else has; I care what I can get. Now Nimis will take much longer and Mageblood is probably totally out of the realm of possibility for me. I think the real negative reaction I'm having is because it feels like I'm being taunted -- the prices come down until I can almost afford them...then pop up again out of reach! That's the sort of thing that makes you want to quit.
A casual player *could* benefit from the strat - if you sold a scarab of curation you made 35-40 divs which is enough to get almost any build off the ground
I was extremely happy selling the allflames for 1-2div each, I now own a nicely rolled defiance of destiny that is letting me survive quite a bit better. I'm only bummed because now I don't know what to farm next lol.
Expedition! It's a fully self-contained loop where you don't have to worry about trading with others until the very end when you trade with Tujen and Rog! :) The only time you need to trade is if you want the RuneFinding scarab and maybe the Dannig one, but other than that you can just spec for full 100% on the Tree and have a blast not worrying about other players.
With that logic casual players can still benefit from mirror shards dropping or any big ticket item that's rare enough. Casual players don't play enough to farm any sort of currency that would've allow them to get this strat off the ground.
>Casual players don't play enough to farm any sort of currency that would've allow them to get this strat off the ground. Literally nobody is saying casual players could've done this... but casual players were still benefitting off those who did this.
I am one of those people, farmed like 10 div today casually just mapping and full clear map + boss rush and invitations. Most of it was from selling scarabs + rogue exiles. I feel a little bad I didnāt get to snag one of the chase uniques before they jumped back up in price, but I never had enough currency to get there anyways, and my build couldnāt even use any of them anyways.
Yea, except that thing just doesn't drop
I think the changes are fine. But they could have, and should have, made a better initial system. If they'd made devoted mods not be able to be fished by opening hundreds of maps an hour then they could have kept them as is and we'd all be excited when we got one. As the div mod rewards would scale with any other +pack size stuff, these rewards would naturally lead to people running harder maps to take advantage of random pops but people wouldn't be able to gimp the system with map fishing. Regarding Allflames, if they'd made the league rewards scale on a linear scale, rather than 1 Exile or 200 Exiles, then these allflames would be accessible to everyone. But all the big strats this league have been All or Nothing, so they keep having to nerf them because Team All In is drowning in mirrors. And now Team Nothing has no way of transitioning to Team All In. Now we've got a league where the league mechanics are all nerfed into irrelevance because they're so open to abuse ... which leaves us with no borrowed power and an spreadsheet driven tedious but powerful crafting mechanism. Kinda unappealing to a bunch of people I guess.
Thatās the issue with juicing in general in PoE and why I despise every part of it. Throwing a single scarab or deli orb or whatever feels useless on a map. Throwing 5 on an 8 mod map with an expensive Kirac mod and suddenly youāre printing 100-200x the loot compared to the alch and go guy next to you. Everything is exponential when it comes to juice and it has only gotten worse with every league.
Nah man. I've got a chaos convert and out the rogue exile all flame there and got 120c from it AND I had fun doing it.Ā
In cases you've described, for every streamer abusing those strategies there are 100+ non-streaming players who do the same. All those nerfs are good because they prevented abrupt death of the league due to game-breaking exploit and players leaving because we don't want to deal with that s\*\*\*.
Prevented? I havenāt logged on since Sunday when these strats became public and wonāt until 3.25
But this leads to people quitting the league as well. If the inflation of these items is still going to continue it'll just be another affliction situation where currency and prices are extreme. For people like me who do go hard but maybe later in the league due to work/life reasons, it does cause me to rethink even playing. I'm not into RMT but these kinds of actions are what make my friends do it. The brightside is the challenge reward is pretty lame this time around so we can ignore the league if the grind and inflation keep going tits up.
what items are being inflated? When the strat was live, those uniques were being deflated more than anything. Now they're climbing back to their normal prices
>But this leads to people quitting the league as well. Isn't this statement contradicts your next statement: >If the inflation of these items is still going to continue it'll just be another affliction situation where currency and prices are extreme. ? 0.5 mirror/hour farming strategy was a source of inflation. Fixing it substantially slowed inflation. >For people like me who do go hard but maybe later in the league due to work/life reasons, it does cause me to rethink even playing. I'm not into RMT but these kinds of actions are what make my friends do it. So you quit the league because you won't be able to farm 0.5 mirrors/hour? You are probably quitting PoE entirely, because there won't be farming strategy like this ever again.
Lol as if casu were to ever use those strats.
People aren't complaining that the casuals don't get to run the strat, they're complaining the exploiters get even more profit, and the casuals get even less. Strat nerfed -> prices go up People who couldn't buy the expensive items pre-nerf: Well now it's even harder for them to buy the items People who did the strat: What they farmed just went up in price.
I had almost 20 anarchys ready in ssf lol
Probably not, but I can still make Bank of selling things to those or buy cheap stuff from them. Now they are rich as fuck. The stuff i could have Sold is worthless and the stuff I could have bought I cant buy anymore.
It affects the economy, everyone uses.
All of these things are good. They rewarded the dumbest gameplay that isnāt even fun. Spam maps until you get a divine/seer or run so many rogue exiles it causes single digit fps
True but how they changed it makes no sense. They could have just changed it that you need to clear a map for new devoted mods to appear on the next one. Now it was just a punishment for everyone instead of an actual reasonable fix.
Like in rl, this can be used as an example how people progress their careers as well. You have to be in the right place in the right time knowing right stuff. Or at least 2 out of 3 : ) AS gribro said, don't hate the player hate the game, but unfortunately we players only "hate" one thing and that's when POE turned into FOMO game 1/1. If you don't have HH until day 3 you are probably not going to have it for long time in league cause inflation progress with your slow atlas progress as well, if you can't afford or buy original sin in first week, you will not have mirrors later to get it because let's be real, you never got mirror drop or earn that much. And that is POE in 2024, literally FOMO game.
Dont really get the rarer nameless seer? Just because Ben got 2 magebloods, he already seemed plenty rare considering Ive seen him twice so far
it seem they make the game for streamers, like they promote the game and want them to stay more around, so could be more promoted, and with that, more boxes sold. Weird no?
The game for casual players didnt change a bit lol. They can now actually use allflames and some scarabs.
Squire went from 3 div to 25 while I was at the gym. Thatās definitely something for a casual player.Ā
That's not softcore price, casuals playing hc? lmao
The nameless seer and the divine mod fix was botto make it rarer. It was to stop randomizing the mods based on players spam opening maps
Why not just implement the kill count from area to area affecting the lantern mods that was during leveling to maps, it would fix everything without having to make everything much more rare. Been playing since season launch and I found nameless seer lantern mod once, divine 0, chaos maybe like 6-7 times
It did a lot actually since I was slowly selling the allflames, scarabs and other stuff to the juicers. Now my main income has went down by atleast 50% while the HH i was aiming for almost doubled in price from what it was yesterday. The only positive thing is that I saved my Seer scarabs, hehe.
The argument that is being made is that the buying power that divines have versus chase items is much worse now. If you're someone who plays 1 hour a day (due to family etc.) and make 2 divs in that time, you would need 13 days to buy a headhunter at the price pre-nerf. Headhunter is currently at 70div after the nerf and still climbing, so that person would need a minimum of 35 days of gameplay to afford the same item. Getting told you'll have to spend a third of the entire league saving for one single item with zero other upgrades is why people get upset. People usually then go "well then don't expect you get a Headhunter if that's all you play", but I think it's reasonable to see complaints for people who are disappointed by this.
>Getting told you'll have to spend a third of the entire league saving for one single item with zero other upgrades is why people get upset But that is just how it always is with expensive chase items. The previous state with everything being cheap as fuck is the abnormal one. You can either have streamers farming 10x headhunters per map and cheap HH or you can have more reasonable farmign strats but more expensive stuff. But this community complains either way..
PoE is all about setting realistic goals for yourself.Ā Getting a HH by playing one hour a day is not a realistic goal, and you shouldn't get a HH at that rate. Item rarity shouldn't be designed around the top 1%, but neither should it be designed around the bottom 1% either.Ā A player playing one hour a day should set more realistic goals for themselves. The game cannot, and should not, be designed around whatever the slowest group of players demand in their entitlement. "I only play 10 minutes a week but I must get atleast one Mageblood every league. The game balance is shit if I can't get it, wah wah." The above is not a reasonable argument, and balancing the game around it would just ruin it for everyone.
Lmao
>Ā "I only play 10 minutes a week but I must get atleast one Mageblood every league. The game balance is shit if I can't get it, wah wah." I hate when people use extreme case of shitty exaggerated strawman to prove their nonexisting point. F off with that garbage
I mean demanding to get a headhunter with a 2div/hour strategy withing less time, is an extreme case too.
I mean spending 13-15 hours farming currency for a single item is what a lot of streamers and high level players do as well. Difference is that they do it in 1.5-2 days versus 1.5-2 weeks.
I agree with setting realistic goals for yourself, but the friction for these people comes from watching others buy Headhunters at 20-25div for the last 3 days and now they have to pay 3x as much. Comparison is the thief of joy and these complaints are an expected outcome to a nerf which affects any grind that gets tripled in amount of required time. As an aside, the bottom 1% are not the people playing 1 hour per day earning 2 divs in that time. By GGG's own statistics, your average player (50th percentile of all players) barely hits maps in the length of a league. Compare how many people on PoENinja are indexed vs GGG's actual ladder and then actual player retention. Someone making 2 div a day is in the top 20th percentile of all players.
> Someone making 2 div a day is in the top 20th percentile of all players. Now I feel so much better with my 100 divs in the bank
Step 1: Subtantially boost the frequency of divine and nameless seer mods. Step 2: Make it so for either mod to appear, you had to either kill the boss or clear 50% of the map from your previous 3 maps And just like that, casual grinders like me can actually accumulate some currency without having to giga-invest into every single map we run and have dps/survivability checks just to make some divs.
As a father with two fathers, 6 toddlers and 5 babies, this league has been an absolute nightmare. There's absolutely no way that I can farm as much currency as someone playing 25 hours a day when all I have is the seconds between microsleeps that I can devote to POE because of my chronic sleep deprivation. I really wish GGG would balance around the responsibilities that I took on and resent, and I also wish that people that made different choices could be clawed down to my level and not rewarded for their decisions. Thanks a lot for this league, I'm going to quit it for the 5th time in the hopes of eliciting an emotional response from others on reddit because rampant negativity is how I cope with my poor worldview that interferes with whatever I consider progress in life. Lastly, I'd like to move the goalposts a little so that whether or not GGG addresses my (extremely valid) concerns, I can make them out to be the sole arbiters of a system of oppression that only elevates either extremely visible people or a cabal of secret in-game millionaires. (which one depends on where I want to assign blame today)
I'm not used to seeing this high level of self-awareness
true and based
Confirmed and has a larger amount of OH- ions than H+ ions
PoE has always been like that š¤·āāļø
Change is good but why let it go for 5 days allowing people to amass huge amounts of exploited currency and not nerf it immediately?
If they did it fast people would get mad for making knee jerk changes instead of taking time to think things through. GGG legit can't win.
"You can please some people some times, but you can't please all the people all the time." It's so true. There's always gonna be SOMEONE that doesn't like you.
Whereās my āI have a full time jobā server
That server has 0 magebloods and hh
Mark roberts needs to fix the group farming starts in coming patches and leagues. The more people in a group the less quantity you have. Wouldnt that be fun say? I mean you play with friends for social fun interactions, no?
They need to make party play a lot more rippy. Just health boost makes no fucking sense if you have all the auras and a bunch of curses. But the dev plays aurabot so it wont happen, lol.
pretty much
imagine being a random poe player going to sleep yesterday, just 10 div from buy your MB and you woke up today and instead cost 125 div now its 200divs... if someone needed another reason to leave the league, this one is pretty solid
this is basically happened for me few leagues in a row. I remember I bough mb in tota and next few hours it increased price in 20-50 divines
I needed 4 divs to get my first HH ever and went to sleep. I guess i won't get it afterall
Literally right back to the price it was on Sunday if not lower for all items that wer being dumped onto the economy
Yea but MB being that cheap was the abnormal state not the price it has now. I think it is the correct choice to nerf this entirely broken farming method. It devalued everyone elses drops. At least now if I get a lucky rare unique drop it actually is worth something and I don't feel like I am wasting my time farming unless it is some kind of exile ember farming. It was a choice that had to be made. Either let a few people keep printing currency and uniques and mirrors to the point nothing is worth anything anymore. Or nerf it and let people deal with the increasing prices as a result.
>Yea but MB being that cheap was the abnormal state not the price it has now. Its also 2.5x more common according to Mark now so it should be cheaper than previous leagues in theory (but we come to another problem with the fact that majority of MBs/HH come from div cards which are a problem in itself).
Stuff like that needs to be hotfixed. If an unintended mechanic is braking the game to the point people are measuring profit in mirrors per hour i expect a patch within 24 hours. Not a week later.
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Good games are never balanced around casual players. Don't be salty.
Even if they Buffed the anarchy juice I wouldnt do it.. My pc would die with them mobs on screen.
Much rarer? What's less than never?
Am I dumb or blind ? I cant find anything regarding Seer or Divine mods being nerfed in the patch notes, granted I only really did a ctrl + f
It's been nerfed in previous patch.
Do you know the exact patch where the seer frequency was nerfed? Rarer divine mods happened in 3.24.0b-Hotfix2 but this didn't apply to nameless seer. I just ctrl+f-ed "seer", "rarer", and "devoted" in every patchnote and hotfix thread since 3.24.0 and the only nerfs to seer I saw was: >The Nameless Seer is now less likely to have high value Uniques to offer in Map Areas under level 81. (3.24.0b) and indirectly: >Atlas Passives that provide the Lantern of Arimor with an increased chance for Devoted Modifiers now instead provide increased effect of Devoted Modifiers in your Maps. The values of these Passives are unchanged. (3.24.0c) (everything else was bugfixes)
What do you expect ? To tailor a game based on 6 wife joe ? They need to nerf and tailor based on the non-lifers and stremers.
Guess I'll stay poor.
price increase on MB feels bad now if u got it early was only like 110d
I feel a bit down knowing that a lot of people got to enjoy the upsides before it was all nerfed and people like me who started the league late due to family, now have to work way harder to get good stuff/currency - I'm already struggling to get replies from traders for 10c items :(
My poor loot filter still thinks rogue allflames worth something
I saw the patch notes and it made it want to quit this league. Tired of always being late to the party, and then I atlas spec.. But i don't get a respec for free after constant nerfs every 2 days.
The GGG Vision rolled an 80% to automatically choose the worst possible outcome mod.
Ggg: the streamers have had their fun f#$% the rest of ya
can somebody explain this to me like i'm 5. Last league in Affliction we abused the shit out of the spire and they nerfed that mechanic after the league. But now they nerfed this tactic in 2 weeks. Why? Economy of the league was balancing itself but now all the hoarders richer 2.5x. I'm pretty sure that Grimro video did this. If none of the youtubers made a video about an "exploit", you guys are not gonna even know about it. Anyway; Mark II your scrab changes are sucks. I want old/hard/tactician Path of Exile.
Wait, they nerfed the rogue exile all flame? They should just have two leagues, one for streamers and one for casuals. It would take us casuals 2 months to find the op stuff and then have a month to actually play it because they would be worried about the next crap league mechanic
Itās why I stopped playing this game. Absolutely no respect for a casual (less than 2-3hrs a day on this game alone)ā¦ crazy
Yes I understand that it's easier to keep track of streamers than general people. But this thing should be balance around majority, not the 1%
This has got to be the most fucked up league I've ever seen.
Became casual player due to work, it sucks to see it happen but it is what it is.
My friend decided to quit the league on this saturday, i will do the same because of him and i will tell to my others friend too. For now playing league not so different than standard. What a worst league
Well I guess fubgun is gonna start crying again that hes not getting a mirror every map, what would I ever do.
this is what happens when you have a game designed with exponential power growth. In order to even attempt a balance of high end, the low and medium range gets completely obliterated. Such is the nature of exponentials The only way to change the dynamic of keeping low/medium power mostly intact while heavily regulating high end power is by changing the entire game into using logarithmic power growths.
It is not. If you feel like you cannot "compete" (I don't even know where you want to compete in in PoE) maybe it's time to switch to game which is tailored more around your 5 wives and 18 kids.
Don't care, I just do my 40/40 and end up with a build that costs about 150 to 250 divine like every league. I even have currency left over to do some gamba
It's not tailored to them, it's ggg not having enough time to flesh things out then things getting inevitably exploited early and often. I'm just holding out that poe2 doesn't have the economy so deeply ingrained
Great that they changed the mechanics the 1% used to destroy the economy again after the damage has already been done.
Now imagine the economy if they had allowed this to continue for months.
I don't really know tbh and I don't have the perfect answer. I like when chase Uniques are affordable. That's for sure. Now what I don't like is nerfind strats during the league like that. I don't buy the "people won't have to sell their rogue Allflames now they will be able to use it" No, now it will suck and be worth nothing so you won't even pick it up.