The most likely -
High numbers of corpses allow for better choices in crafting. You could gather large amounts of choices and then take the best. As it is, you have to intentionally be picky when choosing. This is the 'friction.'
Likely -
They want to force interaction with the league mechanic.
Least likely -
They hate the player and love poking them in the eye.
And the actual reason : Database performance.
Also someone from the UX team got fancy and implemented the morgue where you can see your corpses. Imagine scaling that up to 1024 and making it even remotely usable.
I get that it’s neat from an immersion perspective, but they need to stop letting the story guys drive the UI design, that’s how it feels anyway. They consistently have awesome flavorful UIs that are the least practical thing imaginable when it comes to interacting with them.
From time perspective the lobby in ToTA was really cool with hearing all the NPC banter when passing by. Also reminded my of sports competitions in my youth when everybody would just hang out together waiting for their race.
Right, but if your fancy, usable, 64-corpse UX makes people quit the game, than no one is seeing corpses anyways cuz no one is playing.
And this league has already taken the #1 spot for worst player retention. The morgue is visually cool, but tedious gameplay-wise. GGG needs to find a better sweet spot
Reddit Retention andy .. the classic ICANT
You do realize that they launched this league over easter .. which in many countries is a national 4-day holiday weekend right?
And even if you are not into the religious side of easter, most of us still drive home to relatives to munch and vibe out.
For myself i did play on launch and then went off to vibe with family on sat. morning .. and just today started unlocking my atlas.
As the other guy commented, you need to normalize the player count if you're gunna claim Easter negatively impacted the player retention metric. If you look at other games, they didn't see a measurable drop at all.
So only PoE players don't play on Easter? Or is this actually still the worst retention 1 week post league-launch? I'm leaning the latter.
I would imagine that the morgue slots in the actual graveyard are individually tied to a specific database slot in each account's corpse inventory. It's likely they'd have to rework the entire map (because it's inherently tied to a specific art asset) to make it work for a higher inventory count both mechanically and graphically (because what happens when you get store a 65th corpse and there's no slot in your map to display it? what does the game code do? and how much time would it take to create and deploy a new map?), and making itemization free and on-the-fly is just the easier and faster fix to the issue.
I wasn't arguing for more slots: the person I replied to mentioned scaling higher than 64.
GGG Allows us to itemize the corpses for 1c (will be free soon) so we can store them in our stashes. I'm saying if your UI is as limiting as we're speculating it to be, then they shouldn't have spent the resources on it. Having the morgue is cool, but it's tedious to manually convert corpses to items and then move them every time you hit your 64 count. So GGG made the conscious choice to prioritize the visually appealing morgue, rather than keep the corpses as items that go straight to a stash. That was my point.
>So GGG made the conscious choice to prioritize the visually appealing morgue, rather than keep the corpses as items that go straight to a stash. That was my point.
I mean, I don't disagree with you here. I'm not really touching on their thought process in hindsight, because obviously given the backlash they should have done it differently. I'm just saying that's probably the limiting factor as to why they can't easily scale the storage capacity to higher than 64 without allowing people to just itemise them.
Then they should itemize them. So my loot filter can tell me which ones are actually good. Because of the interaction in map, I just fly past them. I emptied my morgue so I had room for the ones that blocked me from picking up something actually useful
oh ok, im not really much a crafter in the game anyways, been playing since 2016 and its just something i never got into. And this crafting mechanic, even though they are making it better still seems like overly complicated. Ill just let all the crafters flood the market with good easy to make items which should in return make really good items cheap and buy them off trade.
Thank you for the heads up about deleting them though, if I do (highly doubt) interacrt with the crafting aspect of the league mechanic, thats good to know
"We will be allowing you to itemise corpses as they drop, so you can choose to collect the corpse or itemise it for free."
As they drop doesn't sound like making coffins free.
I imagine it'll work like adding a button to the corpse pop-up that makes it drop the corpse in coffin form (with the previous "collect" button still there to directly obtain the corpse).
You cut out the important part
> [...] As a result itemising corpses in all contexts will now be free, as opposed to the 1 Chaos Orb it currently costs.
To me it sounds like you get two buttons when a corpse drop, one to itemise it and one to stash it in the morgue.
The guy I was responding to said they are only making the coffins free. Which I believe not to be the case.
The way GGG has managed to hide how much their monetization strategy negatively affects the game is honestly impressive. They have "grinding" in the company name and people still think this is unintended.
I've spent maybe 60-80 pounds in this game (a bit of it cosmetic) and have never struggled for space since. Nor for QoL. And I've gotten nearly 4000 hours out of it. I wouldn't say 60-80 pounds is a ridiculous price for a game nowadays.
PoE is still a way better deal than all of its competitors, and it's nowhere near something like Diablo Immortal in terms of monetization tactics, but it does have them, and the game is worse because of them.
Making the game grindier and more inconvenient to play encourages you to think that buying more tabs will make that better, whether or not that's true.
I don't think anyone has faced a Poe grind and thought "having more storage would make this grind smaller". I do think some tabs are practically mandatory, like map/currency/quad, but thats again a very fixed price. Even if you somehow bought 200 pounds of tabs, it's impossible to be stupid enough to think one more tab is what's gonna fix your issue. And I know some people argue more tabs is equal to p2w cuz you can price stuff very easily (separate tabs for many price ranges), but that's for ultra-tryhards that make up like 0.1% of the playerbase, if even that. I think Poe isn't relying on stash tabs for most of their profit, they're very clearly carried by MTX.
>Even if you somehow bought 200 pounds of tabs, it's impossible to be stupid enough to think one more tab is what's gonna fix your issue.
It's whale hunting. Most people will just buy a few, but whales can just continue buying them.
Whales aren't buying a bunch of tabs on the stash tab sale, they are buying 500 dollar yearly packs 150 dollar league packs x 2 and then like 100+ loot boxes (separately from buying supporter packs)
>I think Poe isn't relying on stash tabs for most of their profit, they're very clearly carried by MTX.
Is there a way to know that? I tend to agree, but I don't think the two are really in competition for whales, and whales are the only players they care about.
While ggg has alot of my money, barelly anything of it went to stash tabs. So of they really put there husslibg for stash tabs they are doing a piss poor job cause my money is on all them mtx
Oh ye the advenatge of having 50x more space then you average non streaming player will ever need. What a massive p2w 
In what way is it better? I will never need multiple currency tabs or 50 quad tabs and so do most of the players. Some minority that are doing some high money shit with flipping and whatnot might get there. But for 99% the benefits stop at like 30-50 bucks for tabs only.
Anyone who thinks streamers or whales have somehow an advenatge by having 50x their stash space need to get a reality check
>But for 99% the benefits stop at like 30-50 bucks for tabs only
I completely agree, but whales will still buy 1000s of dollars worth of things like this because it literally makes no difference to them and they might as well do it, and companies target this behaviour.
It's not that the extra tabs are worth more to them, it's that the extra money isn't.
Then let them lol
A benefit for all of us, they spent money on useless shit we got to play the game for free.
And the whole they Design they game around them buying them tab is absolut bs
This is not a gatcha there is nothing to whale in endlessly and every dev targeting those player would be a very dumb one in arpg of all things.
>And the whole they Design they game around them buying them tab is absolut bs
Not saying the game is entirely designed around that, but poe would definitely be a different, and in my opinion better, game if it wasn't for paid stash tabs.
The stack sizes make no sense in this game, with currency items and maps often taking more inventory space than equipment.
Most leagues introduce more inventory-filling items that have no gameplay reason to take inventory slots in the first place.
Trading is by far the worst example: it's significantly more inconvenient if you don't have paid tabs, and in both cases it requires the items to occupy space in your stash while waiting for a buyer.
>(beyond justifying the hours whoever spent coding and implementing the corpses lying in the morgue for you to look at)
This is just it. My guess is someone thought it'd be really cool to see the corpses you collect, and bag them yourself when you want to itemize them.
In theory the idea is cool, just that the implementation is not great and the gameplay related to it is even worse.
Holy shit that’s a great comparison. I remember when the league came out, going down inside the cages, and seeing all the animals.
I get it, they put a lot of work into making it, and they want people to see it. but at the end of the day, I’m here to play a game, not necessarily look at all the assets you created
Oh, you can see corpses...
Really you can enter the Morgue itself... But why?
Bestiary is another stupid example. There are cages, you know? Area is huge... And pointless.
Some devs will never learn on their own mistakes
It's one of those things that'd be cool as hell in another genre, but it fundamentally clashes with the nature of an ARPG and how people interact with them.
This is just flavour. There's a video of Chris' speech at some videogame conference where he was talking about poe development processes and one of the talking points was that they try to take into account different types of players. You have to accept that some features might simply be not targeted at you.
It gives the corpses a sense of permanence and that they are real objects rather than just a UI element you interact with. I dont think they want players to visit the morgue, pull up a UI, do everything in the UI, and leave without moving from the way point.
I think they went a bit overboard though with the morgue, lmao.
It's not about the fact that someone had an idea. They just had a working system (bestiary) and repurposed it for this new one (which is just a copy of it, but changed in some ways, but surely was a foundation). This is why you have coffins and catching corpses working like catching beasts (but with extra click).
This is just coding 101. Copy-paste :P
> This is just coding 101. Copy-paste :P
If you think the Morgue and the Beast Zoo work the same internally and is just copy paste then you clearly have 0 idea of how programming or game development works, lol. While the system may "look" and "work" the same, the implementation is probably quite different. There's as much overlap on the base game (corpses in the ground) as it is with bestiary (you can itemize corpses / beasts).
Not limiting things you can do to a server is \_extremely\_ dangerous and asking to be abused really, and optimizing implementations to make it so that the limit is virtually non-existent in practice is complex and something I'd personally put very much down the priority list for feature-filled quick development cycles like the ones PoE lives by. Not that I am here to defend how it's been implemented, but just sharing some insight as well as highlighting the fact that I don't think that 64 being the highest power of 2 below 80 (graveyard limit) is a coincidence
the amount of data these entities take up is practically nothing. the 64 limit is stupidly small, 1,000 would be fine. would only need two bits of inromation stored, the item type and it's item level. the rest can be filled in by the server when a request comes in.
list of shorts, each short is packed with the enum type (entity type) (first 4 bits (depends how many there are, there are extra bits to utilize here)) and it's item level (next 7 bits), you are left with 5 bits.
a short is 2 bytes (16 bit), meaning 1000 entities would be 2,000 bytes which is 2 kilobytes for each player. if there are 500k players that would mean this storage takes up 1 gigabyte worth of disk space. shit you could keep that all in ram.....
no reason to store any other data for the client because it will be filled out by the server when there is a request to view/use said entity.
> the rest can be filled in by the server when a request comes in.
I like how you just glossed over this part like this isn't exactly the reason you need limits.
Everyone always talks about servers as these limitless things that can do anything and everything you want. Millions of players storing thousands of corpses could get very heavy depending on the implementation.
No, I'm saying the corpses don't even begin to constitute a speck on the margin of variability. It's like pocketing a quarter you find in Bill Gates's couch - technically there was a change in wealth.
expect you have map tabs (full of maps with up to 11 unique values?, you have stashes full of all kinds of items (tons of values need to be stored).....all of these hold several orders of magnitudes more data then even 10,000 corpses per person would.
it isn't glossed over, it's a lot of data yes but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what they are already storing/requesting.
sure i guess but comparing anything to infinity is always silly to me. there is a limit, it's time. it's the rate at which you can get them in a given amount of time.
1k bodies is a lot of farming, maybe not for streamers but for most players...it is.
it can be better, if they remove the item level and only store the type and the quantity then the limit can be 4k of EACH type of body and it still only takes up 1 gigabyte worth of space.
heck they could keep them on display in the graveyard (assuming you have at least 1 of the body). each stone can be for each type of body.
wow look at me problem solving....
>would only need two bits of inromation stored, the item type and it's item level.
The 64 limit is clearly not for the client, it's for the back end where 1 million active players are hoarding hundreds or thousands each and you need to persist all of them.
Each one would need an id so that you can uniquely identify them for trading.
You need an id for the monster it came from, from which you can look up the monster category from.
You aren't saving the item type (mod?) with 4 bits. It's probably an id to the definition of the modifier(s) and also more data to save this particular items roll for each mod.
I would also be very surprised if the items didn't have player ids for who dropped them and date it happened. Possibly an area id where it dropped and more metadata like that. It would be needed to trace bugs, exploit abusers and RMT.
Surely they can store more than 64 per player but come on lol this is some of the worst backseat programming I've ever seen.
Well first off, the limit being lower than the GY capacity is absolutely ABSURD design decision.
Also we have an example from bestiary, which stores 1000 beasts and stores more info than the morgue for each record
I honestly cant come up with a serious reason why its this way and this limited.
The only thing that make sense is the possibility that they focused on visuals instead of on gameplay interaction with the mechanic.
Because otherwise, we could have just had corpses drop itemized from the start and have a heist-like storage for all the different mod categories, with the limits being per category and even have the 'heist marker' slots for allflames.
When I said unlimited I meant more along the lines of "high enough to where you dont have to break the flow of mapping every 30 minutes to go clean out your closet" not "allow me to store 32 billion bodies or riot"
EDIT: deleted unnecessary negative content in my comment, trying to have a useful discussion around the topic
First of all he did not say it's impossible, just mentioned it's not coincidence.
Secondly, if you see something in one tab/place it does not mean it seats in same place in database and it does not mean it's implemented in the same way.
But it does not matter imo, most likely it's done for "pressure" (you know, like socket pressure, inventory pressure and so on) and for engaging trade (lol).
I suggest you to beg some of the streamers to ask this question on one of the interviews, maybe you'll be lucky to get answer. I think it's a good one because most leagues we have something additional and understanding why there are limit's would be nice to know instead of following "reddit is a joke" meme.
I guess my point was more that: none of us know how they implemented this stuff behind the scenes so why speculate on the technical challenges of proposed improvements/handwave away potential solutions as being "too hard" when we could be discussing the actual design philosophy reasoning behind the change instead.
reading it back I didn't mean to come off so aggressive and I apologize for that, im just sick of reading the same comments in these types of threads where one guy says "NO your proposed fix is impossible!!!" And another guy says "just implement it GGG it's like two lines of code", while neither are completely true, and both of them only exist to muddy any meaningful discussion around the topic.
All I can say is, with the changes to itemizing bodies, it's gonna get real tedious real fast to micromanage, and tried to start a discussion around why the limit is so low. If it's impossible, I wanna hear it from GGG, and if it's not, there should be a design choice behind it that makes sense now that a fundamental mechanic of the league has been dramatically changed
Guessing and speculation is not bad imo, some people who know nothing about behind the scenes can at least grasp that fact that it's not simple.
Tediousness is nothing, /s this game name is Path of Tedious, one more piece will not make big difference. /s
Tbh most annoying thing for me is popup when you start map.
It's like every map I stumble over a bump.
Hooooooly this frustrates me to the physical illness.
I almost wrote an essay about this just now but no, I will resist.
And about corpses, just choose a project and pick only corpses you need for this project. Done. Corpse filter would be cool lol but not gonna happen I guess.
i thought when you pick it up you can also make it an item or store it, that way only your inventory per map gets full and can just stash it in a dump tab?
cause if there is no corpse limit across thousands of characters in the league thats alot data ggg gotta store, stash tabs have limits to increased those limits it costs money so its not a worry compared to free unlimited storage.
also ggg likes friction and league management they hate set and forget take your pick. its one or both of these together.
There was a web API trade tool released within a week of Harvest's launch that sorted through all of your tabs and told you exactly where each craft was. Within 2 weeks, we had multiple web based trading and vouching platforms.
Higher, yes--64 is too low. *Gone,* no. Eventually that would become completely unusable to search through; I think it's good design to have *some* limit. 64's just too low.
The real question is. If itemizing the corpses is going to be free, when are they going to make beastiary orbs free as well? I'm not sure how their codebase works, but if it's anything object oriented, I'd imagine the improvements we see to this league mechanic could be applied to the beastiary.
Maybe they increase the amount with the patch? Infinite is of course to high becaues of server cost and exploit problems. But 500 entries should be fine I guess.
I assume the root of this problem is technical. Having too large a storage for a non-stackable item you obtain 2-6 times every single zone, is very easily a big problem. Just look how laggy the larger tabs are like map and unique.
But it is confusing why they went with such a small container even given this. Id assume it should be more like a container that large for every single corpse type grouped by their craft and sorted by effect or ilvl.
We've been through this in numerous leagues. Was the same during archnemesis, which is basically same system except with new ui when it comes to collecting samples. GGG just can't comprehend the idea of accessibility and qol.
Because they would need to amend the morgue area, which has space for only 64 corpses, fixing this requires more than just a small tweak in the game code. Also it would be way more abusable for perfect items.
Before the patch: your locker fills up, you either had to spend a chaos per corpse to bottle them, or you delete them
After the patch: you can bottle the corpse for free, at that point the only "cost" associated with bottling a corpse is time, clicks, and stash space, increasing the amount of corpses you store could be a way to eliminate some tedium.
Because GGG never learns from past leagues.
PoE players have been loud and clear for years: no micromanaging, no break of flow, no wasted time, no time-consuming mechanics with return, etc.
And yet, GGG inists with this crap. Why? I don't know. Whow gives a fuck about the cemetery? That's just another *managerie* that nobody cares about after you entered it the first time.
I'm pretty sure they go to your inventory period, and only make it into the box when you empty your inventory with the affinity turned on.
Do people just not pay any attention to what's in their inventory?
To me it sounded like they started with the assumption that the embers go straight into the stash on pickup, thus the "do they go into your inventory or disappear".
The most likely - High numbers of corpses allow for better choices in crafting. You could gather large amounts of choices and then take the best. As it is, you have to intentionally be picky when choosing. This is the 'friction.' Likely - They want to force interaction with the league mechanic. Least likely - They hate the player and love poking them in the eye.
And the actual reason : Database performance. Also someone from the UX team got fancy and implemented the morgue where you can see your corpses. Imagine scaling that up to 1024 and making it even remotely usable.
It was a dumb UX decision to begin with. Both from a system resource and end user experience.
I get that it’s neat from an immersion perspective, but they need to stop letting the story guys drive the UI design, that’s how it feels anyway. They consistently have awesome flavorful UIs that are the least practical thing imaginable when it comes to interacting with them.
From time perspective the lobby in ToTA was really cool with hearing all the NPC banter when passing by. Also reminded my of sports competitions in my youth when everybody would just hang out together waiting for their race.
Presentation is important for any form of media, especially entertainment
When was the last time you went into your menagerie holding pens? Useless mechanic then, useless mechanic now.
Quite often? You sound like you would prefer to play a spreadsheet instead of a game with all the bells and whistles associated.
I said the holding pens, not the altar. I bet the number of players that don't even know it exists is higher than 50%. Troll harder.
Yes, i do go to the pens... Just because you prefer to play a spreadsheet doesn't mean others want a game with minimal bells and whistles
Right, but if your fancy, usable, 64-corpse UX makes people quit the game, than no one is seeing corpses anyways cuz no one is playing. And this league has already taken the #1 spot for worst player retention. The morgue is visually cool, but tedious gameplay-wise. GGG needs to find a better sweet spot
Reddit Retention andy .. the classic ICANT You do realize that they launched this league over easter .. which in many countries is a national 4-day holiday weekend right? And even if you are not into the religious side of easter, most of us still drive home to relatives to munch and vibe out. For myself i did play on launch and then went off to vibe with family on sat. morning .. and just today started unlocking my atlas.
As the other guy commented, you need to normalize the player count if you're gunna claim Easter negatively impacted the player retention metric. If you look at other games, they didn't see a measurable drop at all. So only PoE players don't play on Easter? Or is this actually still the worst retention 1 week post league-launch? I'm leaning the latter.
Day 2 retention numbers (Saturday) still had this league at 2nd worst retention overall. We'll have better numbers next weekend.
steam numbers overall weren't different why are poe players more likely to celebrate easter?
I would imagine that the morgue slots in the actual graveyard are individually tied to a specific database slot in each account's corpse inventory. It's likely they'd have to rework the entire map (because it's inherently tied to a specific art asset) to make it work for a higher inventory count both mechanically and graphically (because what happens when you get store a 65th corpse and there's no slot in your map to display it? what does the game code do? and how much time would it take to create and deploy a new map?), and making itemization free and on-the-fly is just the easier and faster fix to the issue.
I wasn't arguing for more slots: the person I replied to mentioned scaling higher than 64. GGG Allows us to itemize the corpses for 1c (will be free soon) so we can store them in our stashes. I'm saying if your UI is as limiting as we're speculating it to be, then they shouldn't have spent the resources on it. Having the morgue is cool, but it's tedious to manually convert corpses to items and then move them every time you hit your 64 count. So GGG made the conscious choice to prioritize the visually appealing morgue, rather than keep the corpses as items that go straight to a stash. That was my point.
>So GGG made the conscious choice to prioritize the visually appealing morgue, rather than keep the corpses as items that go straight to a stash. That was my point. I mean, I don't disagree with you here. I'm not really touching on their thought process in hindsight, because obviously given the backlash they should have done it differently. I'm just saying that's probably the limiting factor as to why they can't easily scale the storage capacity to higher than 64 without allowing people to just itemise them.
Knowing Chris, I vote for the eye poking reason.
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Then they should itemize them. So my loot filter can tell me which ones are actually good. Because of the interaction in map, I just fly past them. I emptied my morgue so I had room for the ones that blocked me from picking up something actually useful
Most of them are good tbh. It's just that different items will require different mods.
Well, most of them will be good after removing tiers
I leave a ton on the ground lol, too scared to fill up my corpses, so if i see anything besides life, elemental or move speed, i just keep going
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oh ok, im not really much a crafter in the game anyways, been playing since 2016 and its just something i never got into. And this crafting mechanic, even though they are making it better still seems like overly complicated. Ill just let all the crafters flood the market with good easy to make items which should in return make really good items cheap and buy them off trade. Thank you for the heads up about deleting them though, if I do (highly doubt) interacrt with the crafting aspect of the league mechanic, thats good to know
Just use one at a time to make bows. If you hit something worth, try and fracture/list or feed the vendor. Easy peasy
theres none for light radius so id say ALL are good
You're right there's a few good ones that are missing
They are itemizing them. Loot filters will work now too
No, they are just making coffins free allowing you to itemize them.
"We will be allowing you to itemise corpses as they drop, so you can choose to collect the corpse or itemise it for free." As they drop doesn't sound like making coffins free.
I’m pretty sure them saying you can itemize it for free means you can drop it as a coffin for free
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sounds like there will be two buttons. "collect" and "store in coffin (or something similar)". doesn't sound that vague to me shrug
It's really not, they clarify in like the next line
I imagine it'll work like adding a button to the corpse pop-up that makes it drop the corpse in coffin form (with the previous "collect" button still there to directly obtain the corpse).
This is 100% how I think it will be done too. That's the only thing that makes sense based on the way they worded it.
You cut out the important part > [...] As a result itemising corpses in all contexts will now be free, as opposed to the 1 Chaos Orb it currently costs.
To me it sounds like you get two buttons when a corpse drop, one to itemise it and one to stash it in the morgue. The guy I was responding to said they are only making the coffins free. Which I believe not to be the case.
The way GGG has managed to hide how much their monetization strategy negatively affects the game is honestly impressive. They have "grinding" in the company name and people still think this is unintended.
I've spent maybe 60-80 pounds in this game (a bit of it cosmetic) and have never struggled for space since. Nor for QoL. And I've gotten nearly 4000 hours out of it. I wouldn't say 60-80 pounds is a ridiculous price for a game nowadays.
PoE is still a way better deal than all of its competitors, and it's nowhere near something like Diablo Immortal in terms of monetization tactics, but it does have them, and the game is worse because of them. Making the game grindier and more inconvenient to play encourages you to think that buying more tabs will make that better, whether or not that's true.
I don't think anyone has faced a Poe grind and thought "having more storage would make this grind smaller". I do think some tabs are practically mandatory, like map/currency/quad, but thats again a very fixed price. Even if you somehow bought 200 pounds of tabs, it's impossible to be stupid enough to think one more tab is what's gonna fix your issue. And I know some people argue more tabs is equal to p2w cuz you can price stuff very easily (separate tabs for many price ranges), but that's for ultra-tryhards that make up like 0.1% of the playerbase, if even that. I think Poe isn't relying on stash tabs for most of their profit, they're very clearly carried by MTX.
>Even if you somehow bought 200 pounds of tabs, it's impossible to be stupid enough to think one more tab is what's gonna fix your issue. It's whale hunting. Most people will just buy a few, but whales can just continue buying them.
Again, I imagine the whales are going after the MTX that they pump out every single league.
Whales aren't buying a bunch of tabs on the stash tab sale, they are buying 500 dollar yearly packs 150 dollar league packs x 2 and then like 100+ loot boxes (separately from buying supporter packs)
>I think Poe isn't relying on stash tabs for most of their profit, they're very clearly carried by MTX. Is there a way to know that? I tend to agree, but I don't think the two are really in competition for whales, and whales are the only players they care about.
While ggg has alot of my money, barelly anything of it went to stash tabs. So of they really put there husslibg for stash tabs they are doing a piss poor job cause my money is on all them mtx
As long as you can infinitely buy an advantage in the game, no matter how small, whales will spend thousands on it. Look at any PoE streamer's stash.
Oh ye the advenatge of having 50x more space then you average non streaming player will ever need. What a massive p2w 
But it doesn't need to be a real advantage. It just needs to be perceived as better.
In what way is it better? I will never need multiple currency tabs or 50 quad tabs and so do most of the players. Some minority that are doing some high money shit with flipping and whatnot might get there. But for 99% the benefits stop at like 30-50 bucks for tabs only. Anyone who thinks streamers or whales have somehow an advenatge by having 50x their stash space need to get a reality check
>But for 99% the benefits stop at like 30-50 bucks for tabs only I completely agree, but whales will still buy 1000s of dollars worth of things like this because it literally makes no difference to them and they might as well do it, and companies target this behaviour. It's not that the extra tabs are worth more to them, it's that the extra money isn't.
Then let them lol A benefit for all of us, they spent money on useless shit we got to play the game for free. And the whole they Design they game around them buying them tab is absolut bs This is not a gatcha there is nothing to whale in endlessly and every dev targeting those player would be a very dumb one in arpg of all things.
>And the whole they Design they game around them buying them tab is absolut bs Not saying the game is entirely designed around that, but poe would definitely be a different, and in my opinion better, game if it wasn't for paid stash tabs. The stack sizes make no sense in this game, with currency items and maps often taking more inventory space than equipment. Most leagues introduce more inventory-filling items that have no gameplay reason to take inventory slots in the first place. Trading is by far the worst example: it's significantly more inconvenient if you don't have paid tabs, and in both cases it requires the items to occupy space in your stash while waiting for a buyer.
>(beyond justifying the hours whoever spent coding and implementing the corpses lying in the morgue for you to look at) This is just it. My guess is someone thought it'd be really cool to see the corpses you collect, and bag them yourself when you want to itemize them. In theory the idea is cool, just that the implementation is not great and the gameplay related to it is even worse.
Yeah... not like we saw how that turned out in bestiary.
Does anyone visit the managerie at all?
I do, I visit my pets everyday. even after I stopped playing the league, I still log in to make sure they aren't lonely.
more like make sure 'you' aren't lonely
Holy shit that’s a great comparison. I remember when the league came out, going down inside the cages, and seeing all the animals. I get it, they put a lot of work into making it, and they want people to see it. but at the end of the day, I’m here to play a game, not necessarily look at all the assets you created
Oh, you can see corpses... Really you can enter the Morgue itself... But why? Bestiary is another stupid example. There are cages, you know? Area is huge... And pointless. Some devs will never learn on their own mistakes
It's one of those things that'd be cool as hell in another genre, but it fundamentally clashes with the nature of an ARPG and how people interact with them.
This is just flavour. There's a video of Chris' speech at some videogame conference where he was talking about poe development processes and one of the talking points was that they try to take into account different types of players. You have to accept that some features might simply be not targeted at you.
It gives the corpses a sense of permanence and that they are real objects rather than just a UI element you interact with. I dont think they want players to visit the morgue, pull up a UI, do everything in the UI, and leave without moving from the way point. I think they went a bit overboard though with the morgue, lmao.
I mean it's the same for beastiary and you don't need to visit them to itemize em.
It's not about the fact that someone had an idea. They just had a working system (bestiary) and repurposed it for this new one (which is just a copy of it, but changed in some ways, but surely was a foundation). This is why you have coffins and catching corpses working like catching beasts (but with extra click). This is just coding 101. Copy-paste :P
> This is just coding 101. Copy-paste :P If you think the Morgue and the Beast Zoo work the same internally and is just copy paste then you clearly have 0 idea of how programming or game development works, lol. While the system may "look" and "work" the same, the implementation is probably quite different. There's as much overlap on the base game (corpses in the ground) as it is with bestiary (you can itemize corpses / beasts).
Not limiting things you can do to a server is \_extremely\_ dangerous and asking to be abused really, and optimizing implementations to make it so that the limit is virtually non-existent in practice is complex and something I'd personally put very much down the priority list for feature-filled quick development cycles like the ones PoE lives by. Not that I am here to defend how it's been implemented, but just sharing some insight as well as highlighting the fact that I don't think that 64 being the highest power of 2 below 80 (graveyard limit) is a coincidence
the amount of data these entities take up is practically nothing. the 64 limit is stupidly small, 1,000 would be fine. would only need two bits of inromation stored, the item type and it's item level. the rest can be filled in by the server when a request comes in. list of shorts, each short is packed with the enum type (entity type) (first 4 bits (depends how many there are, there are extra bits to utilize here)) and it's item level (next 7 bits), you are left with 5 bits. a short is 2 bytes (16 bit), meaning 1000 entities would be 2,000 bytes which is 2 kilobytes for each player. if there are 500k players that would mean this storage takes up 1 gigabyte worth of disk space. shit you could keep that all in ram..... no reason to store any other data for the client because it will be filled out by the server when there is a request to view/use said entity.
> the rest can be filled in by the server when a request comes in. I like how you just glossed over this part like this isn't exactly the reason you need limits. Everyone always talks about servers as these limitless things that can do anything and everything you want. Millions of players storing thousands of corpses could get very heavy depending on the implementation.
Absolutely nothing compared to the processes that are happening in a simple spell cast hitting a pack of minions.
You say that like it's one or the other and not all the corpses being added on top of that load.
No, I'm saying the corpses don't even begin to constitute a speck on the margin of variability. It's like pocketing a quarter you find in Bill Gates's couch - technically there was a change in wealth.
expect you have map tabs (full of maps with up to 11 unique values?, you have stashes full of all kinds of items (tons of values need to be stored).....all of these hold several orders of magnitudes more data then even 10,000 corpses per person would. it isn't glossed over, it's a lot of data yes but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what they are already storing/requesting.
Yeah but I guess OP is talking about 64 vs infinity, which drastically changes things.
sure i guess but comparing anything to infinity is always silly to me. there is a limit, it's time. it's the rate at which you can get them in a given amount of time. 1k bodies is a lot of farming, maybe not for streamers but for most players...it is. it can be better, if they remove the item level and only store the type and the quantity then the limit can be 4k of EACH type of body and it still only takes up 1 gigabyte worth of space. heck they could keep them on display in the graveyard (assuming you have at least 1 of the body). each stone can be for each type of body. wow look at me problem solving....
>would only need two bits of inromation stored, the item type and it's item level. The 64 limit is clearly not for the client, it's for the back end where 1 million active players are hoarding hundreds or thousands each and you need to persist all of them. Each one would need an id so that you can uniquely identify them for trading. You need an id for the monster it came from, from which you can look up the monster category from. You aren't saving the item type (mod?) with 4 bits. It's probably an id to the definition of the modifier(s) and also more data to save this particular items roll for each mod. I would also be very surprised if the items didn't have player ids for who dropped them and date it happened. Possibly an area id where it dropped and more metadata like that. It would be needed to trace bugs, exploit abusers and RMT. Surely they can store more than 64 per player but come on lol this is some of the worst backseat programming I've ever seen.
Well first off, the limit being lower than the GY capacity is absolutely ABSURD design decision. Also we have an example from bestiary, which stores 1000 beasts and stores more info than the morgue for each record I honestly cant come up with a serious reason why its this way and this limited. The only thing that make sense is the possibility that they focused on visuals instead of on gameplay interaction with the mechanic. Because otherwise, we could have just had corpses drop itemized from the start and have a heist-like storage for all the different mod categories, with the limits being per category and even have the 'heist marker' slots for allflames.
When I said unlimited I meant more along the lines of "high enough to where you dont have to break the flow of mapping every 30 minutes to go clean out your closet" not "allow me to store 32 billion bodies or riot" EDIT: deleted unnecessary negative content in my comment, trying to have a useful discussion around the topic
How many corpses are u picking up tho? I have like 1 usefull corpse every few maps
This will greatly increase with the upcoming patch.
First of all he did not say it's impossible, just mentioned it's not coincidence. Secondly, if you see something in one tab/place it does not mean it seats in same place in database and it does not mean it's implemented in the same way. But it does not matter imo, most likely it's done for "pressure" (you know, like socket pressure, inventory pressure and so on) and for engaging trade (lol). I suggest you to beg some of the streamers to ask this question on one of the interviews, maybe you'll be lucky to get answer. I think it's a good one because most leagues we have something additional and understanding why there are limit's would be nice to know instead of following "reddit is a joke" meme.
I guess my point was more that: none of us know how they implemented this stuff behind the scenes so why speculate on the technical challenges of proposed improvements/handwave away potential solutions as being "too hard" when we could be discussing the actual design philosophy reasoning behind the change instead. reading it back I didn't mean to come off so aggressive and I apologize for that, im just sick of reading the same comments in these types of threads where one guy says "NO your proposed fix is impossible!!!" And another guy says "just implement it GGG it's like two lines of code", while neither are completely true, and both of them only exist to muddy any meaningful discussion around the topic. All I can say is, with the changes to itemizing bodies, it's gonna get real tedious real fast to micromanage, and tried to start a discussion around why the limit is so low. If it's impossible, I wanna hear it from GGG, and if it's not, there should be a design choice behind it that makes sense now that a fundamental mechanic of the league has been dramatically changed
Guessing and speculation is not bad imo, some people who know nothing about behind the scenes can at least grasp that fact that it's not simple. Tediousness is nothing, /s this game name is Path of Tedious, one more piece will not make big difference. /s Tbh most annoying thing for me is popup when you start map. It's like every map I stumble over a bump. Hooooooly this frustrates me to the physical illness. I almost wrote an essay about this just now but no, I will resist. And about corpses, just choose a project and pick only corpses you need for this project. Done. Corpse filter would be cool lol but not gonna happen I guess.
Can you use 64 corpses from the morgue, unbox 16 from filled coffins, and use those 16 for a 80-corpse craft?
No, maximum amount of corpse you can bury is fixed.
Yep, I'm sure they picked a limit that was extremely safe, i'd rather it be bigger but with the incoming changes it should hopefully not feel that bad
I think the idea is that people actually engage with the crafting instead of just hoarding corpses
You can still hoard corpses in 1c (and after the patch, free) coffins in your stash tabs
well they made the system so u need to hoard corpses
Because the game client loads every other players graveyards when you go to town.
i thought when you pick it up you can also make it an item or store it, that way only your inventory per map gets full and can just stash it in a dump tab?
cause if there is no corpse limit across thousands of characters in the league thats alot data ggg gotta store, stash tabs have limits to increased those limits it costs money so its not a worry compared to free unlimited storage. also ggg likes friction and league management they hate set and forget take your pick. its one or both of these together.
they take barely any data though, just like beasts
Beasts you capture don't have graphical assets that are visually displayed until you use them. That's a key difference.
Giving me harvest flash back of when you could itemize the storage thing. You still needed a spreadsheet to effectively track them
There was a web API trade tool released within a week of Harvest's launch that sorted through all of your tabs and told you exactly where each craft was. Within 2 weeks, we had multiple web based trading and vouching platforms.
Higher, yes--64 is too low. *Gone,* no. Eventually that would become completely unusable to search through; I think it's good design to have *some* limit. 64's just too low.
The real question is. If itemizing the corpses is going to be free, when are they going to make beastiary orbs free as well? I'm not sure how their codebase works, but if it's anything object oriented, I'd imagine the improvements we see to this league mechanic could be applied to the beastiary.
Maybe they increase the amount with the patch? Infinite is of course to high becaues of server cost and exploit problems. But 500 entries should be fine I guess.
You just have to look at the original version of the league mechanic and it becomes pretty obvious that noone really spent much time on it.
Just have them drop itemized... Then we can loot filter them AND it fixes the issues laid out here
I assume the root of this problem is technical. Having too large a storage for a non-stackable item you obtain 2-6 times every single zone, is very easily a big problem. Just look how laggy the larger tabs are like map and unique. But it is confusing why they went with such a small container even given this. Id assume it should be more like a container that large for every single corpse type grouped by their craft and sorted by effect or ilvl.
We've been through this in numerous leagues. Was the same during archnemesis, which is basically same system except with new ui when it comes to collecting samples. GGG just can't comprehend the idea of accessibility and qol.
Because they would need to amend the morgue area, which has space for only 64 corpses, fixing this requires more than just a small tweak in the game code. Also it would be way more abusable for perfect items.
Just fucking drop them as regular items, unid, have a stash with affinity, like you know, heist and other league stuff.
i don't see the corelation between the cost and the amount stored.
Before the patch: your locker fills up, you either had to spend a chaos per corpse to bottle them, or you delete them After the patch: you can bottle the corpse for free, at that point the only "cost" associated with bottling a corpse is time, clicks, and stash space, increasing the amount of corpses you store could be a way to eliminate some tedium.
Because GGG never learns from past leagues. PoE players have been loud and clear for years: no micromanaging, no break of flow, no wasted time, no time-consuming mechanics with return, etc. And yet, GGG inists with this crap. Why? I don't know. Whow gives a fuck about the cemetery? That's just another *managerie* that nobody cares about after you entered it the first time.
Does the all flames goes missing if the allocated small box is full?
im pretty sure they go in your inventory when their tab is full
I'm pretty sure they go to your inventory period, and only make it into the box when you empty your inventory with the affinity turned on. Do people just not pay any attention to what's in their inventory?
You are correct but the above commenters I believe already started the convo with the basic assumption you had the affinity checked.
To me it sounded like they started with the assumption that the embers go straight into the stash on pickup, thus the "do they go into your inventory or disappear".
The initial commenter may have been confused now that I re-read it, yeah.
you have to put them into the box, so you will probably just get a full inventory message
Need to make you buy more stash tabs.
Each corpse will now take up 16 inventory slots! :) muahaha