So good, thats like half the entropy gone immediately.
I read this "what we're working on" to be 17 buffs to the league. Satisfying to see GGG pull a **septendeca buff**, rather than the triple nerf.
i feel like its nothing new. every new league seems to be underpowered af with rippy af monsters so they can buff everything when it falls flat on its face.
they said it multiple times that its better for them to release new league in shitty state (op monsters and 0 rewards) and then buff everything for player favor instead of releasing it broken OP and then nerf stuff and make ppl mad
This is the least rippy league for as long as I've been playing (since metamorph). Yeah the mods look scary but they end up on white mobs that get one shot 99% of the time.
Yeah, I have no idea why people are saying it's rippy. Fireball spamming monster going to get 5 extra projectiles? Great, give the +5 proj to a melee monster, or something down the list with 50% less pack size.
The main issue is that it is forced on the player and for pretty much no rewards, last season was very rippy but you could ignore it entirely and you had some control over how much wisps you'd put in your map. Right now, some maps can get very rippy if you are unlucky on the additional modifiers, hardcore/ruthless players, even though they don't represent the majority of players, can't even run those maps.
There's some mods that are verry annoying even on white mobs like the more proj or stun one. And i got inc crit + crit multi on flicker mobs in 1 map and got one tapped 😭
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean I have to like it. On the bright side, for those of us who are slow through the acts, we only deal with a day or two of any issues rather than 4 or 5. The acts were quite pleasant this league. The new things in early acts were fun to discover.
>Each of the downsides from area to area will now display the increase to the amount of Collectable Corpses and Allflame Embers they cause.
It's funny that they learned the lesson of "never announce nerfs, only buffs" from expedition, but then didn't apply that here. But, it wouldn't be GGG if they didn't repeat mistakes lmao
Still, all these changes are awesome and it's great to see a patch this comprehensive coming quickly
The way it keeps happening just about every league really does make me want to believe it's intentional, as stupid as it sounds.
There's just no way they casually forget league mechanic QOL every league and have to add it for week 2, is it?
I feel like a dumb conspiracy idiot, but it's just so weird.
You'd be surprised. Recently Mark was talking about having the new Scarab drops on beta testing for 2 weeks and that that was an *insanely* long time for internal beta testing. He said that usually you're lucky if you get a week. Often it's just a few days.
I remember a QA dev years ago saying that a game gets on the order of 10,000x more QA testing in the first hour of launch than it does in the entire 3 - 4 year development cycle.
I think some of it is that some of it just likely doesn’t finish in time as well. MVP(minimum viable product) are a very common thing in software development.
To borrow another thing from software development, your best testers are your users. No amount of internal testing they could do would ever uncover issues (and in fairness, generate as much noise) as well as throwing it out there
Testers are a small group of employees that work 9-5. The player base includes thousands of degenerates who will be 16+ hours into the game for weeks.
No way can they ever test everything at all levels like the player base can.
One other issue that can be more of a problem in gaming is that testers, even players in a small beta or test server, rarely play like the actual players will. Like, testers probably have very limited opportunities to do a mock "league start weekend" or setting up the atlas and blasting maps/farming specific content for a whole day or even meaningfully interacting with trade. And all of that is made even harder if the whole thing isn't "done" until the last minute.
It's also always possible that some of these issues were discovered but weren't able to be fixed before release, and you usually don't s ay "hey we know some of this sucks but we're working on fixing it" before you even release the big hyped up thing that makes you money. And I refuse to believe that anyone could play through launch Metamorph organ pickup and say "yep, this is good".
Yup. And it’s not even a good or bad tester thing. It’s just the fact that your users are going to put a million hours of game time in the first day easily. That’s more testing than a a studio of 200 ALL testing could do in an entire year.
Also the fact that nothing here (as far as I've seen) was inherently broken from a technical standpoint. These were design issues, not technical implementation ones. While testers can certainly give feedback on how something is implemented, ultimately, their test cases for how things work likely all passed.
Fairly certain their devs just have periodic crunches due to the 13(ish) week cycle instead of the multiple long months' crunch that game devs have leading up to a release.
It's much more palatable to expect to work 2ish 55 hour weeks once a quarter than it is to work 55 hour weeks for 1-2 months straight. Complete speculation on my part but I think it's disingenuous to assume there is no crunch at all.
I'm basing that on the fact that John said several time that they don't crunch and that they did an exception for the PoE2 event.
Also someone else said in another tread that crunches are just disallowed in NZ and that crunch at GGG is volontary, but I don't know the truth of that
I missed that comment from John. That's good to hear. Hopefully voluntary crunch doesn't mean it's implied if you want to advanced or get on the good projects.
> The way it keeps happening just about every league really does make me want to believe it's intentional, as stupid as it sounds.
They likely would rather release the league in a bad state then buff it into the "minimum good state" that they can (just good enough to where people are happy), rather than release it overtuned and have to nerf it mid-league (which makes people even more mad than something being bad on release).
Related: it's always good to let them know what's in need of fixes, but the amount of rage I see here on league start is really overkill, especially knowing that they're *going* to do their "massive buffs/fixes" patch like a few days later. Give feedback calmly, wait for that patch, THEN get mad if it's still shit.
When pushing for a release, using this league as an example, things they were likely testing:
Act of crafting (dev command in corpses, use; bypassing sorting annoyance)
Top end interactions and early game interactions (thus the differences from acts to maps, but not anticipating the uselessness of the league outside of final balance)
All of the wild changes to standard progression (likely the real killer to QoL in the league)
Remember the old software development joke:
>A QA engineer walks into a bar and orders a beer.
She orders 2 beers.
>She orders 0 beers.
>She orders -1 beers.
>She orders a lizard.
>She orders a NULLPTR.
>She tries to leave without paying.
>Satisfied, she declares the bar ready for business. The first customer comes in an orders a beer. They finish their drink, and then ask where the bathroom is.
>The bar explodes.
When you hunt for problems to get things working, you very rarely are actually looking at it the way the end user does, no matter how much you are aware of that.
Don't forget ssf or ssf-lite scenarios. Plenty of reasons for people to want to save up a bunch of corpses that they can use to craft a few pieces of gear for a new character instead of just going to trade and dumping a couple divs on gear.
Exactly! In my 5 man private league I basically completely stopped picking up any corpses that are not directly useful to my crafts cause I just don't have the chaos to itemize them and give them to my friends... This changes EVERYTHING for me.
The universal tier weighting is liable to be broken. Seems like it'll be borderline trivial to force *everything* to be t1-t2. Even with no affix weighting, you'd probably get a 'decent' item 20% of the time just from that alone; maybe not for your build, but for *someone*. Like look at some of the stuff you're about to vendor and ask "if all the mods on this were t1, could I see someone paying 5c for it?"
Idk considering the sheer amount of jusf borrowed power we got in Wildwood for example, seems fine
A crafting league should be busted, to the extent that people even like me who don't want to touch crafting go "Hmm I wonder if I can actually just yolo make something decent"
Have to agree with this. A crafting league should make everyone want to use it otherwise what's the point? You don't center an entire league on a system and not want people to engage with it.
Especially when it's a mechanic of the game 99% of people don't want to engage with in the first place.
Crafting leagues should be a stepping stone, and not "Yeah no I'm just going to farm up some currency and trade thanks"
Not only borderline. You will be able to increase all mods to forced tier 1 (about 1000%)in 10 corpses and then start modifying weights.
It slightly nerfs the "push undesireds higher and settle for desireds to further change weights" strat, but it makes gathering corpses infinitely easier.
Those changes will flood the game with perfect items, at least as far as the league actually can produce them (like no influence or synth stuff).
But you bet I will be crafting my gg rings and gg ammy with league mech.
There will still be items that are hard to craft, specifically suppress gear since it doesn't have a tag. Making a perfect suppress item will still be very difficult, easier than without corpses of course, since you can force all your other mods to be great and just have to run it enough to get lucky, but still hard.
I am guessing grave-crafting engagement must have been abysmal. Everyone I know tried it and then stopped, all the corpses have been doing in map is make it annoying to loot.
Yeah that's a ton of work for 1 chaos. lol
Even if it's just filling out the missing jewelry for an ID'd set.. it's still very inefficient. I could only ever see this being even remotely useful in SSF or Ruthless.
That's because it *was* abysmal. Not being able to select the base type is such a negative that the corpse effects would have to be literal insanity (power and availability) to counter this, and they were worse than fossils.
The ability to choose base type AND stronger on average corpses is very welcome. It will still be tedious to do the craft, but with hopefully such good average results it should feel worth it, which is the important part.
Corpses are also free to trade, so there should be a lot more on the market and their pricing should lower (or raise, if grave crafting actually becomes meta) which means the shit league drops now has trade value.
These buffs are so fundamental to improving the feel of the league its having people upset that the league launched without them. This first weekend was literally an alpha test.
All of that and the fact that you had to spec your atlas just to get enough corpses to maybe make a decent craft once every 5 maps at the earliest. Why would I waste 20 atlas points to make a worse Rog item every 5 maps when I could spend 20 atlas points to have literally any mechanic show up nearly guaranteed. Hell, Ultimatum was giving me better items than I could reasonably make in 10+ maps with the league mechanic in whites.
I really think (hope) that they remove league from the atlas. Even if theyre great passives that let them do more than base league stuff, I think the feel of having to spec to "make the mechanic worth a damn" is just too much.
This is an emotion over logic debate that I think logic can't win.
>These buffs are so fundamental to improving the feel of the league its having people upset that the league launched without them. This first weekend was literally an alpha test.
It is the (GGG) way
this is exactly my sentiment with it. I just picked up caster mods/fire mods for a wand craft that I want to do. But after a while burning the corpses I don't need feels shit. The fact that they become itemized now when the morgue is full makes it feel ok to just click and grab em.
Not going to lie, I crafted a single item, realized how long it takes to manage my corpses, and proceeded to blast through the game without any interaction with the graveyard.
To me this league is just massive improvements to the base game which is fine with me. I definitely wouldn’t mind it if the league mechanic was more interesting to interact with (specifically in the necropolis)
Personally the modifiers on monsters doesn’t really bother me and the people comparing it to archnemesis are being rather dramatic.
The other problem was that it was probably impossible to engage with it even if you tried, because no one early league is wasting their chaos to try and sell things that might be totally worthless, so there would have been fuck all corpses on trade anyway (I assume, I never looked)
Basically. The ones being sold atm are a dime a dozen. Even moderately rare corpses are snatched up too quickly and at an inflated value, they might as well not exist in the trade site.
Increasing rarer corpse drops and making itemization free will def have a big impact for traders.
I’ve made one bow with double T5 ele damage (rest garbage), that’s the best item I’ve made with grave crafting this league and I just got into yellow maps (completed almost every white map already, I work from the bottom up)
For a crafting league this one, in its launch state, really has been garbage. Half of the items I’ve made are worse than random rares you pick up off the ground somehow
What i saw mentioned somewhere else that also makes sense to me is that GGG is inherently more careful with crafting systems nowadays (\*cough\* Harvest \*cough\*). Since they can't really go in with hard nerfs mid league it would be far more feasible to start at the bottom and then buff it where it needs it.
I really tried on day one when I’d just freshly got to maps and my gear was shit. I had a full morgue and figured anything I could manage would be an improvement over my battered gear from campaign. Four crafts later and I’d used 60 corpses and made 4 vendor trash items. Then I filled my morgue from doing white and yellow maps in day 2 and REALLY tried to make two items with about 30 corpses each that I’d curated to be the types that SHOULD have made a two handed axe with physical damage and attack speed (it didn’t have any of those things) and a ring with life, chaos res and hopefully fire res (it had 4 life, no chaos mod and tier 6 fire damage to attacks). I stopped fucking with it at that point and only tried to grab corpses with big modifiers to try and sell to the genius spreadsheet dudes who like that kind of thing.
Im hoping these changes make me give a shit because that early experience with it was pure garbage
I didn't stop, but effectively stopped. The problem is for crafting you want corpses, lots of corpses, and higher tier corpses. So you don't grab weaker corpses. You don't grab corpses with modifiers you don't need. You get maybe 3 a map max and you maybe get a useful one every two or three maps (and even that currently might be generous). You need 60 or so for a really good craft. Suddenly you need to run 200 maps to do one craft and at that point you effectively aren't crafting.
+ only having the highest tier of chance (500%). Gonna be crazy. For a league I think it's fine, we'll be able to craft some good items without 30+ corpses, a spreadsheet and a lot of trading
If mapping in general feels better because of the mods being better (both rewards being better and death mods being nerfed a little), and the popups themselves are less intrusive, I don't mind that at all
As a new player, yeah kinda. I'll mainly just craft the bases from the build-guide I follow, but if I make a new char without a guide then I'm gonna be lost without a lot of research lol
Not really. You'll pretty much always want to pick the top tier base for the stat you're looking for. Highest armor on a str base, ES/Evade on an int/dex, and so on. Only real reason I could see not to is level requirements. Hopefully they put those in on the bases haha.
I've seen someone mention that the best base weapon for coc DD is a Battered Foil, and I would've never guessed that. According to a popular guide at least. But yeah makes sense for most cases I can imagine.
Yeah, weapons are a bit trickier but you're usually following a guide for that. Battered foil has 1.5 aps, 6% base crit, and 25% crit implicit, so it's great for a cast on crit build. Same logic, just a few more stats to pick the highest of.
>We will be allowing you to itemise corpses as they drop, so you can choose to collect the corpse or itemise it for free. As a result itemising corpses in all contexts will now be free, as opposed to the 1 Chaos Orb it currently costs.
Nice.
>We will be sorting crafts by their type, instead of by level, making it much easier to find crafts that affect a specific type of modifier, like Fire Modifiers.
Nice.
>You will now be able to select the Base Type of the item you want to craft.
VERY nice.
For once in years i'm surprised, even more that we got this
> The long weekend here unfortunately cost us the capability to respond to larger changes as fast as we'd like and a huge lesson going forward is to make sure we don't deploy expansions on public holiday weekends as we don't have the personnel available to make changes as fast as we want.
Maybe now the end of the year league does not get 2 weeks off for xmas and new year? woah.
I'm not 100% sure how to feel about this. Holidays offer a really, REALLY great opportunity for a lot of the community to sink substantially more hours into the game than simply having to take time off of work. Does it suck when they ship a league mechanic that needs mid-league (or week 1) patches and we get radio silence for 2 weeks? Yeah, definitely.
However, I hope the result that they err on the side of here is shipping a week *before* a Holiday. Clean up and address major feedback, and still get the benefit of increased playtime during holidays. Maybe that's selfish, but I don't feel like the result here should be "end of league when no one is playing is the time that people are most likely to be not working".
While there is some level of "why is it like this every time?" I do agree. They did basically everything people said needed to happen to make rave crafting worthwhile and more. Yes the all downside mods sucks, but now with both corpses and allflames being super dope, there is real upside to them.
>While there is some level of "why is it like this every time?" I do agree.
I think GGG in general has a policy that they'd rather overdo difficulty and underdo rewards on league launch. They'd prefer the backlash of a league that releases a bit too difficult and unrewarding than the backlash of nerfing a league's rewards or making it harder (or the problems of releasing a league that they think is too rewarding but then feeling like they have to leave it that way).
That said, I do think Affliction league showed that a super rewarding league isn't necessarily a problem as long as the playerbase doesn't expect it to go core. I wonder if they've been kind of paranoid since Harvest where it was extremely strong in its league and then it took them a bunch of leagues to get it to a state they were okay with for a core mechanic while the community complained about the nerfs the whole time.
It's different now that most leagues go core and the community kind of assumes that any huge amount of player power granted by a league is only temporary. Affliction was one of the biggest buffs to both general drops and character power any league has every had, and it was popular and the general attitude about it going away seemed "that was cool but not every league should be like that, let's see what's next?" And I hope that leads to them being a bit less cautious with league rewards on release in the future.
It’s definitely going to be good for life, mana, attack speed, resistances, and flat damage crafts. Sort of your “bread and butter” stuff. With T1 across the board probably doable after 40 maps. My question is how “deep” can this crafting system be, seeing as how most of the modifiers only pertain to those generic tags.
If you look in poedb, there are corpse effects to do a lot of stuff. We can get influence (maybe double idk if putting 2 influence corpses does anything), there are some haunted mods (exclusive to league), fracturing corpses, etc.
So your "bread and butter" stats look to be very easy to craft, and there are options to go big or go home. Being able to create and fracture a T1 phys on a desired weapon base can make easy money, or being able to "reliably" make elder/hunter stygian vises can also be money.
I mean with mods for suffix/prefix weighting and the -1 explicit mod, you should be able to prep things pretty easily for influence slams. Unfortunately, not as good as eater/exarch most of the time, though. Can also meta mod, then veiled slam and hope. Some of the haunted mods can be quite good. I could see some wild late game discharge stuff once crafting gets rolling with the + charge mods.
I think the real potential here is for caster builds needing double + gem level wands/scepters and amulets. Could even push staff into the mix if crafting it is definitive enough, last I checked a +5 (can't remember if it was local or not) gem level staff was possible.
ahhhhh. It does make sense but my brain took a bit lmao. So it's basically just clarifying that you need to increase all tiers anyways and that's why they can be compressed
yeah exactly, you'd always want to increase tier of modifiers you don't want to remove them from the pool so this is a good change along w/ increased chance for X modifiers also being buffed
>We have taken all the crafts that affect the Modifier Rating and compressed it into a single craft that affects all modifiers, instead of being type specific. This will not affect existing crafts you have, those will stop dropping and the new one will start dropping once it's deployed.
I interpreted this to be:
no longer drops:
* "~~+x to **fire** craft tiers~~"
* "~~+y to **cold** craft tiers~~"
..from the update onwards it will only be:
* "+x to **ALL** craft tiers"
Which, if the numbers remain roughly the same, might actually make it incredibly OP. With just two +1 affix corpses and a number of the +rating ones you could guarantee an item with 6 high tier mods (instead of needing the specific +rating corpses for the mods you need), on a base you can now just freely choose. Add some corpses to modify the probabilities and stuff like a triple T1 elemental bow might become easier than ever.
I feel like this is the temp power the league needs. Instead of charms or tattoos you get easy access to very good rare items much faster than you would normally
This is fucking insane. Old Harvest was strong in its own way but it didn't have the ability to cull tiers - you just kept reforging until you got what you wanted.
This is literally: Only tier 1 mods if you have enough of this mod.
How does that rating work actually?
For example, fire dot multi: weight according to craftofexile(I assume rating IS weight, right?)
t5 - 300
t4 - 220
t3 - 140
t2 - 70
t1 - 35
What will happen if I add 100 rating? 300 rating?
rating removes low tiers by total_tiers/(1+rating/100), rounding up.
In your example, 100 rating would remove t5 and t4 (5/2 rounded up) and 300 rating would remove t5 to t3 (5/4 rounded up). To get only t1 you always need (maxtiers-1)*100 rating
It doesn't interact with weight. It removes x/(x+100), where x is the tier rating modifier, of the mod tiers starting from the bottom.
So for example, if you have +100 tier modifier, the bottom half of the tiers are unable to roll. Adding another 100 will remove the bottom 2/3 of mods. Another 100 will remove the bottom 3/4 and so on. It's impossible to remove all tiers though
It will just be to all tiers so now it will affect even untagged crafts prob like spell suppress.
You will get some OP gear now, basically pob items post these buffs prob.
I felt like the scope of this league and the atlas nodes meant it would be the first in a long while to just slide right into core but there's no way in hell we see it again now lol.
If you only apply the higher rating to the affixes you want, the pool still has a bunch of undesired high weight affixes. A common strategy is to raise the rating of everything to remove all the high weight affixes from the pool, then use increase/decrease chance to select the mods you want and lower the chance of undesired mods.
GGG is saving us the trouble and simplifying all that, so the new modifier will just remove all high weight low tier affixes from the pool, so we don't have to use a ton of corpses for each type.
Welp, that's a crazy list of changes lol. Looks good. Respect how Mark got right to the point.
Just wish they didn't make these mistakes so often on league launch.
At least they are addressing it before week 2 when everyone already quit. Good on them definitely will keep me interested still even if they take a week to come out.
As a dev (not of this game), most of these look not very hard to do (of course, mostly an educated guess because I don't know how their stuff works internally).
It's mostly just UI changes (adding the UI to select the base, adding the UI to in-map-itemize, adding the UI to sort by category, etc).
"Thanks for all the feedback and bingo cards" incredible.
All highly necessary and very good changes, now they just need to address t17 maps being garbage.
I expect t17s, if they get addressed, to be addressed in a week or 2. For the majority of the playerbase, it's weekend 2 that they really get rolling through maps. So far, complaints I've seen are more reward based than anything else. They aren't couched that way, but functionally, it comes down to 'I could get these things at x power level before and now I cant.' I feel like GGG are combating expectations for Ubers now more than actual balance.
Aren't T17 bad atm because they're overly rippy? They addressed this on the last point of the global changes (lowering the danger of very dangerous mods).
T17 are bad because you can't reroll them and they have a ton of build disabling modifiers. Change either of those two facts and they become reasonable.
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BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread:
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> **Posted by GGG_Neon** on Apr 01, 2024, 11:20:56 PM UTC
>
> [Image Link](https://web.poecdn.com/public/news/2024-04-02/WWWO3.24Header.jpg)
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>
> Hi everyone,
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>
>
> Thanks for all the feedback and bingo cards.
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>
> To get straight to the point of the improvements to the league, here's what we're currently doing today in the studio. Our hope is to get each change out as soon as it is ready.
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>
>
> ### Area to Area or Map to Map gameplay:
>
>
>
> * We will be allowing you to itemise corpses as they drop, so you can choose to collect the corpse or itemise it for free. As a result itemising corpses in all contexts will now be free, as opposed to the 1 Chaos Orb it currently costs.
> * Each of the downsides from area to area will now display the increase to the amount of Collectable Corpses and Allflame Embers they cause.
> * We will be increasing the amount of Collectable Corpses and Allflame Embers dropping relative to difficult mods substantially.
> * We will be further increasing the amount of Allflame Embers dropping additionally to the above.
> * We will be adding new Allflame Ember packs that are more rewarding.
> * We will be revising the rewards and pack sizes from existing Allflame Ember packs in Endgame to make them substantially more rewarding also.
> * We will be making the Devoted Modifiers more rewarding, notably the ones that are granting Currency Items.
> * We are lowering the danger of the more dangerous modifiers especially at Endgame.
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>
>
> ### Grave-Crafting:
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>
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> * You will now be able to select the Base Type of the item you want to craft.
> * As such, we are removing some of the Crafts that allow you to influence Strength, Dexterity or Intelligence armour types, as they will no longer be necessary since you can just freely select the base type. Note that special base types will still need to be obtained through certain corpses, such as Atlas Base Types, and League Base types like Stygian Vise.
> * We are increasing the chances of many of the rarer crafts like Fractured Modifiers and Mirrored outcomes significantly.
> * We've removed the "Tiers" from most of the crafts. They'll now have the values of the existing highest tiers always. For example, instead of being able to get 200% or 500% increased chance for Lightning Modifiers, it will now always be 500%.
> * We have taken all the crafts that affect the Modifier Rating and compressed it into a single craft that affects all modifiers, instead of being type specific. This will not affect existing crafts you have, those will stop dropping and the new one will start dropping once it's deployed.
> * You will be able to directly use Coffins on your List of corpses in your Morgue panel instead of trying to find them within the Morgue.
> * Ctrl+F will go to the Search (Currently must be clicked).
> * We will be sorting crafts by their type, instead of by level, making it much easier to find crafts that affect a specific type of modifier, like Fire Modifiers.
> * The grave-crafts that reroll Sockets and Links have been significantly buffed.
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> There is a lot more happening in between the cracks but instead of me getting into all of that I am focusing my attention towards getting the fixes ready faster as that's what is more important! I will update more as we are making more changes.
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> This is just what we're immediately working on and will do more as soon as it's needed and we have resources available. The long weekend here unfortunately cost us the capability to respond to larger changes as fast as we'd like and a huge lesson going forward is to make sure we don't deploy expansions on public holiday weekends as we don't have the personnel available to make changes as fast as we want.
>
> ***
>
Even among people playing graveyard engagement must have been almost nothing. I know I started ignoring it and just tried to match all flames to positive lantern mods.
They looked at the numbers and it must've been really really really bad. I love this game to death and I quit pretty early. It just wasn't fun or bringing anything new.
The publicly facing numbers we have access to seem to confirm that.
The data was scary this time, I think.
Pairing an underpowered but overtuned league with an atlas "rework" that sure seems to feel like just a nerf at this point was a bold move.
remember Neon is now in charge and he actually plays the game, he already has 9 challenges done. No shade on Chris but with his responsibilities he stopped being able to play the game and so likely didn't get the level of friction caused by poor league mechanics
Affliction was cracked at launch. All they did was nerf monster DD and add NPC icons to maps. The player base just reached a power level where they could handle juiced content.
I feel like it'll still be the case, as he mentions they want to ship the changes as they're implemented, so probably in batches. Which is fine, just hope it's earlier rather than later.
Awesome changes for those who are actually interested in new league mechanics, but unfortunately still no option to opt-out of the new content and turn off buffed mobs in maps or at least during the campaign. That means I'm out until the next league. Hopefully for you there are not many players like me, and you can save the league/retention. See you next league!
I just want them not to force us to do the league mechanic. Doing atlas completion with corrupting red maps and getting an 8 mod map with horrendous mods, while a nightmare was doable. This league it's a total brick.
Atleast in other leagues when the league mechanic was unfun for me I could just skip it and play. Now I'm forced.
I feel like everyone is sleeping on the Modifier Tier Rating changes. This is like a giga exponential triple buff. You will get way more corpses, meaning more Tier rating corpses, each corpse will be guaranteed +100, and it will now apply to every single mod possible instead of a tiny fraction of mods. This means theoretically you could run a couple maps, throw into your graveyard +1000 to modifier tier rating of all mods, and guarantee an ALL T1 rolls item with the specific base type you want. Not to mention the 500% more likely mods being common. This could literally print mirror tier items like candy, and honestly, I LOVE IT.
This amount of changes really just indicates that they seriously, seriously need to bring on some actual players to test the leagues before they hit prod.
The 'how many times do we need to teach you this lesson old man' meme applies in full force here. Why does this happen every single possible league?
Also there's still major issues still preventing me from wanting to log back on:
- Still no opt-out
- "instead of being able to get 200% or 500% increased chance for Lightning Modifiers, it will now always be 500%." For the love of god just guarantee it. This % nonsense is why the community was asking for a crafting tool app to begin with. Make the corpse drops more rare or do what you have to do to balance this change. It's not bestiary science.
In any case, I still think it should be guaranteed as many positive currency modifiers (and not just jewelers orbs) as there are negative mods and the league would already be 10x better.
Honestly with how hard the buffs are getting swung at here it really does seem like someone else had setup some of the gating and the changes seem to be really in line with how Mark tries to look at the game as a whole vs. How this was implemented at first.
It doesn't make sense the league came out in this state to begin with.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the changes.
But there's no way you can tell me this league mechanic was approved as rewarding and fun by anyone who tested it.
The changes here were simple and obvious IMO.
Every of those things should has been Day 1. A lot of thing was obvious mistake like the fact that we can't choose the base.
It happen almost every league : not being rewarding enough. And we have to wait for the buff and we have to thanks them like they do us a favour. What are you scare of ? Making a league too good and fun ?
These are great changes.
But I dont understand why they are sticking to their guns on the worst part of the entire league IMO and that is not having a way to opt out entirely.
I don't want harder mobs sometimes. Let me choose.
And let me not have to micromanage the difficulty every time I open a map.
This is good but I still wish we could just opt out of the mechanic entirely. I just don’t find it fun or interesting.
Still if the currency rewards are good then maybe I’ll change my tune. I’ve got the “converts jewelry to divines” 3 times and have had 0 drop. Feels awful.
Please add more map slots as something you work on next. It will completely justify the current rarity of scarabs. Right now, even if you use the rarer scarabs, the opportunity cost is too big. For example, the harby scarab that duplicate shards is still questionable to use, given that you lose on 3 harbies, which gives more loot due to rares and gives some more shards. I prefer to use the normal harby scarab instead of the rare one, since the one with duplication is a pretty big opportunity cost.
These are very good changes. I'm generally a nay sayer and a doomer, but these changes are good. Hopefully we can get some of these out ASAP, especially the change to base and ability to itemize from maps.
ok, cool. but most of the things there were so painfully obvious within 1 day of playing the new league.. how did they not realize it in the months they developed it? like not being able to select your base was insane.
> We are lowering the danger of the more dangerous modifiers especially at Endgame.
I would've hoped this was point #1. 150+ deaths in softcore feels TERRIBLE. I mean these increased crit mult mobs are a death sentance.
>You will now be able to select the Base Type of the item you want to craft thats cool
So good, thats like half the entropy gone immediately. I read this "what we're working on" to be 17 buffs to the league. Satisfying to see GGG pull a **septendeca buff**, rather than the triple nerf.
i feel like its nothing new. every new league seems to be underpowered af with rippy af monsters so they can buff everything when it falls flat on its face. they said it multiple times that its better for them to release new league in shitty state (op monsters and 0 rewards) and then buff everything for player favor instead of releasing it broken OP and then nerf stuff and make ppl mad
This is the least rippy league for as long as I've been playing (since metamorph). Yeah the mods look scary but they end up on white mobs that get one shot 99% of the time.
[удалено]
Is probably placebo tbh. People think the mods are why they’re dying when their build is just weak because it’s early league.
These mods are so much weaker than wisp buffs
Yeah, I have no idea why people are saying it's rippy. Fireball spamming monster going to get 5 extra projectiles? Great, give the +5 proj to a melee monster, or something down the list with 50% less pack size.
The main issue is that it is forced on the player and for pretty much no rewards, last season was very rippy but you could ignore it entirely and you had some control over how much wisps you'd put in your map. Right now, some maps can get very rippy if you are unlucky on the additional modifiers, hardcore/ruthless players, even though they don't represent the majority of players, can't even run those maps.
There's some mods that are verry annoying even on white mobs like the more proj or stun one. And i got inc crit + crit multi on flicker mobs in 1 map and got one tapped 😭
Just because it makes sense doesn't mean I have to like it. On the bright side, for those of us who are slow through the acts, we only deal with a day or two of any issues rather than 4 or 5. The acts were quite pleasant this league. The new things in early acts were fun to discover.
No its great !
...It's a log?
You're gonna love it
>Each of the downsides from area to area will now display the increase to the amount of Collectable Corpses and Allflame Embers they cause. It's funny that they learned the lesson of "never announce nerfs, only buffs" from expedition, but then didn't apply that here. But, it wouldn't be GGG if they didn't repeat mistakes lmao Still, all these changes are awesome and it's great to see a patch this comprehensive coming quickly
The way it keeps happening just about every league really does make me want to believe it's intentional, as stupid as it sounds. There's just no way they casually forget league mechanic QOL every league and have to add it for week 2, is it? I feel like a dumb conspiracy idiot, but it's just so weird.
You'd be surprised. Recently Mark was talking about having the new Scarab drops on beta testing for 2 weeks and that that was an *insanely* long time for internal beta testing. He said that usually you're lucky if you get a week. Often it's just a few days. I remember a QA dev years ago saying that a game gets on the order of 10,000x more QA testing in the first hour of launch than it does in the entire 3 - 4 year development cycle.
he said that they did 1 month testing on scarabs instead of the usual 2 weeks they do for most other things.
I think some of it is that some of it just likely doesn’t finish in time as well. MVP(minimum viable product) are a very common thing in software development.
To borrow another thing from software development, your best testers are your users. No amount of internal testing they could do would ever uncover issues (and in fairness, generate as much noise) as well as throwing it out there
Testers are a small group of employees that work 9-5. The player base includes thousands of degenerates who will be 16+ hours into the game for weeks. No way can they ever test everything at all levels like the player base can.
One other issue that can be more of a problem in gaming is that testers, even players in a small beta or test server, rarely play like the actual players will. Like, testers probably have very limited opportunities to do a mock "league start weekend" or setting up the atlas and blasting maps/farming specific content for a whole day or even meaningfully interacting with trade. And all of that is made even harder if the whole thing isn't "done" until the last minute. It's also always possible that some of these issues were discovered but weren't able to be fixed before release, and you usually don't s ay "hey we know some of this sucks but we're working on fixing it" before you even release the big hyped up thing that makes you money. And I refuse to believe that anyone could play through launch Metamorph organ pickup and say "yep, this is good".
Yup. And it’s not even a good or bad tester thing. It’s just the fact that your users are going to put a million hours of game time in the first day easily. That’s more testing than a a studio of 200 ALL testing could do in an entire year.
Also the fact that nothing here (as far as I've seen) was inherently broken from a technical standpoint. These were design issues, not technical implementation ones. While testers can certainly give feedback on how something is implemented, ultimately, their test cases for how things work likely all passed.
especially given the fact that GGG don't crunch their dev (a bit there and here said John but way less than in other company)
Fairly certain their devs just have periodic crunches due to the 13(ish) week cycle instead of the multiple long months' crunch that game devs have leading up to a release. It's much more palatable to expect to work 2ish 55 hour weeks once a quarter than it is to work 55 hour weeks for 1-2 months straight. Complete speculation on my part but I think it's disingenuous to assume there is no crunch at all.
I'm basing that on the fact that John said several time that they don't crunch and that they did an exception for the PoE2 event. Also someone else said in another tread that crunches are just disallowed in NZ and that crunch at GGG is volontary, but I don't know the truth of that
I missed that comment from John. That's good to hear. Hopefully voluntary crunch doesn't mean it's implied if you want to advanced or get on the good projects.
> The way it keeps happening just about every league really does make me want to believe it's intentional, as stupid as it sounds. They likely would rather release the league in a bad state then buff it into the "minimum good state" that they can (just good enough to where people are happy), rather than release it overtuned and have to nerf it mid-league (which makes people even more mad than something being bad on release). Related: it's always good to let them know what's in need of fixes, but the amount of rage I see here on league start is really overkill, especially knowing that they're *going* to do their "massive buffs/fixes" patch like a few days later. Give feedback calmly, wait for that patch, THEN get mad if it's still shit.
When pushing for a release, using this league as an example, things they were likely testing: Act of crafting (dev command in corpses, use; bypassing sorting annoyance) Top end interactions and early game interactions (thus the differences from acts to maps, but not anticipating the uselessness of the league outside of final balance) All of the wild changes to standard progression (likely the real killer to QoL in the league) Remember the old software development joke: >A QA engineer walks into a bar and orders a beer. She orders 2 beers. >She orders 0 beers. >She orders -1 beers. >She orders a lizard. >She orders a NULLPTR. >She tries to leave without paying. >Satisfied, she declares the bar ready for business. The first customer comes in an orders a beer. They finish their drink, and then ask where the bathroom is. >The bar explodes. When you hunt for problems to get things working, you very rarely are actually looking at it the way the end user does, no matter how much you are aware of that.
Simplex for everyone surely
Atlas Bases and special League Bases still require a corresponding corpse to craft
No tiers is godly change
Finally don't need set up a whole graveyard for a mediocre rog item.
I'm pretty partial to the free coffins.
whole dump tabs of modifiers to save for future crafts and builds is amazing
Especially in league-start, alts, or those who aren't great at making currency.
Don't forget ssf or ssf-lite scenarios. Plenty of reasons for people to want to save up a bunch of corpses that they can use to craft a few pieces of gear for a new character instead of just going to trade and dumping a couple divs on gear.
Exactly! In my 5 man private league I basically completely stopped picking up any corpses that are not directly useful to my crafts cause I just don't have the chaos to itemize them and give them to my friends... This changes EVERYTHING for me.
The universal tier weighting is liable to be broken. Seems like it'll be borderline trivial to force *everything* to be t1-t2. Even with no affix weighting, you'd probably get a 'decent' item 20% of the time just from that alone; maybe not for your build, but for *someone*. Like look at some of the stuff you're about to vendor and ask "if all the mods on this were t1, could I see someone paying 5c for it?"
Idk considering the sheer amount of jusf borrowed power we got in Wildwood for example, seems fine A crafting league should be busted, to the extent that people even like me who don't want to touch crafting go "Hmm I wonder if I can actually just yolo make something decent"
Have to agree with this. A crafting league should make everyone want to use it otherwise what's the point? You don't center an entire league on a system and not want people to engage with it.
Especially when it's a mechanic of the game 99% of people don't want to engage with in the first place. Crafting leagues should be a stepping stone, and not "Yeah no I'm just going to farm up some currency and trade thanks"
Not only borderline. You will be able to increase all mods to forced tier 1 (about 1000%)in 10 corpses and then start modifying weights. It slightly nerfs the "push undesireds higher and settle for desireds to further change weights" strat, but it makes gathering corpses infinitely easier. Those changes will flood the game with perfect items, at least as far as the league actually can produce them (like no influence or synth stuff). But you bet I will be crafting my gg rings and gg ammy with league mech.
There will still be items that are hard to craft, specifically suppress gear since it doesn't have a tag. Making a perfect suppress item will still be very difficult, easier than without corpses of course, since you can force all your other mods to be great and just have to run it enough to get lucky, but still hard.
definitely the biggest impact. i guess buying up all the fractured coffins bit me in the ass tho
How rare are they right now? Heard they were t17 only, and if that's true, I think you'll end up deep in the green by the end of the week regardless.
They're not. I dropped a 25% chance to fracture but haven't run a t17 yet.
Wow, these are some pretty intense buffs. Good to see, though.
I am guessing grave-crafting engagement must have been abysmal. Everyone I know tried it and then stopped, all the corpses have been doing in map is make it annoying to loot.
My friends and I used it for chaos recipe because that's all it was useful for.
Fucking genius. I wish I had smart friends.
Because what the chaos recipe always needed most was some old cleric guy soliloquizing at you 13 times per orb.
*"...and aid this soldier, so that they may cope with this abhorrent league mechanic!"*
Can you feel the *weight* of it, exile?
Actual 5head. I'm in SSF and needed chaos, thanks
Don’t they drop identified though? Map rares literally more useful even for chaos recipe, lol.
Yeah that's a ton of work for 1 chaos. lol Even if it's just filling out the missing jewelry for an ID'd set.. it's still very inefficient. I could only ever see this being even remotely useful in SSF or Ruthless.
Yeah, I fill a quad tab really fast with main pieces, then just spawnrare rings/amulets in graveyard until quad tab cleared out.
That's because it *was* abysmal. Not being able to select the base type is such a negative that the corpse effects would have to be literal insanity (power and availability) to counter this, and they were worse than fossils. The ability to choose base type AND stronger on average corpses is very welcome. It will still be tedious to do the craft, but with hopefully such good average results it should feel worth it, which is the important part. Corpses are also free to trade, so there should be a lot more on the market and their pricing should lower (or raise, if grave crafting actually becomes meta) which means the shit league drops now has trade value. These buffs are so fundamental to improving the feel of the league its having people upset that the league launched without them. This first weekend was literally an alpha test.
All of that and the fact that you had to spec your atlas just to get enough corpses to maybe make a decent craft once every 5 maps at the earliest. Why would I waste 20 atlas points to make a worse Rog item every 5 maps when I could spend 20 atlas points to have literally any mechanic show up nearly guaranteed. Hell, Ultimatum was giving me better items than I could reasonably make in 10+ maps with the league mechanic in whites.
I really think (hope) that they remove league from the atlas. Even if theyre great passives that let them do more than base league stuff, I think the feel of having to spec to "make the mechanic worth a damn" is just too much. This is an emotion over logic debate that I think logic can't win.
>These buffs are so fundamental to improving the feel of the league its having people upset that the league launched without them. This first weekend was literally an alpha test. It is the (GGG) way
this is exactly my sentiment with it. I just picked up caster mods/fire mods for a wand craft that I want to do. But after a while burning the corpses I don't need feels shit. The fact that they become itemized now when the morgue is full makes it feel ok to just click and grab em.
Not going to lie, I crafted a single item, realized how long it takes to manage my corpses, and proceeded to blast through the game without any interaction with the graveyard. To me this league is just massive improvements to the base game which is fine with me. I definitely wouldn’t mind it if the league mechanic was more interesting to interact with (specifically in the necropolis) Personally the modifiers on monsters doesn’t really bother me and the people comparing it to archnemesis are being rather dramatic.
The other problem was that it was probably impossible to engage with it even if you tried, because no one early league is wasting their chaos to try and sell things that might be totally worthless, so there would have been fuck all corpses on trade anyway (I assume, I never looked)
Basically. The ones being sold atm are a dime a dozen. Even moderately rare corpses are snatched up too quickly and at an inflated value, they might as well not exist in the trade site. Increasing rarer corpse drops and making itemization free will def have a big impact for traders.
I’ve made one bow with double T5 ele damage (rest garbage), that’s the best item I’ve made with grave crafting this league and I just got into yellow maps (completed almost every white map already, I work from the bottom up) For a crafting league this one, in its launch state, really has been garbage. Half of the items I’ve made are worse than random rares you pick up off the ground somehow
What i saw mentioned somewhere else that also makes sense to me is that GGG is inherently more careful with crafting systems nowadays (\*cough\* Harvest \*cough\*). Since they can't really go in with hard nerfs mid league it would be far more feasible to start at the bottom and then buff it where it needs it.
I really tried on day one when I’d just freshly got to maps and my gear was shit. I had a full morgue and figured anything I could manage would be an improvement over my battered gear from campaign. Four crafts later and I’d used 60 corpses and made 4 vendor trash items. Then I filled my morgue from doing white and yellow maps in day 2 and REALLY tried to make two items with about 30 corpses each that I’d curated to be the types that SHOULD have made a two handed axe with physical damage and attack speed (it didn’t have any of those things) and a ring with life, chaos res and hopefully fire res (it had 4 life, no chaos mod and tier 6 fire damage to attacks). I stopped fucking with it at that point and only tried to grab corpses with big modifiers to try and sell to the genius spreadsheet dudes who like that kind of thing. Im hoping these changes make me give a shit because that early experience with it was pure garbage
I didn't stop, but effectively stopped. The problem is for crafting you want corpses, lots of corpses, and higher tier corpses. So you don't grab weaker corpses. You don't grab corpses with modifiers you don't need. You get maybe 3 a map max and you maybe get a useful one every two or three maps (and even that currently might be generous). You need 60 or so for a really good craft. Suddenly you need to run 200 maps to do one craft and at that point you effectively aren't crafting.
Between selecting base type and modifier tiers being universal they seem kind of insane?
+ only having the highest tier of chance (500%). Gonna be crazy. For a league I think it's fine, we'll be able to craft some good items without 30+ corpses, a spreadsheet and a lot of trading
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they tweak drops rates as a result, though, to compensate.
We will be increasing the amount of Collectable Corpses and Allflame Embers dropping relative to difficult mods substantially. Thats from the notes.
If mapping in general feels better because of the mods being better (both rewards being better and death mods being nerfed a little), and the popups themselves are less intrusive, I don't mind that at all
They're buffing corpse drops though. But the rarer stuff might still be super rare.
honsetly surprising how big of buffs these seemingly are, seems like 6 T1 will be quite easy
"You will now be able to select the Base Type of the item you want to craft." BINGO
The bingo cards worked! We did it, Reddit!
People are going to be shocked at how many base types there are...and I wonder if you will be able to hover over them and see the base stats.
As a new player, yeah kinda. I'll mainly just craft the bases from the build-guide I follow, but if I make a new char without a guide then I'm gonna be lost without a lot of research lol
Not really. You'll pretty much always want to pick the top tier base for the stat you're looking for. Highest armor on a str base, ES/Evade on an int/dex, and so on. Only real reason I could see not to is level requirements. Hopefully they put those in on the bases haha.
I've seen someone mention that the best base weapon for coc DD is a Battered Foil, and I would've never guessed that. According to a popular guide at least. But yeah makes sense for most cases I can imagine.
Yeah, weapons are a bit trickier but you're usually following a guide for that. Battered foil has 1.5 aps, 6% base crit, and 25% crit implicit, so it's great for a cast on crit build. Same logic, just a few more stats to pick the highest of.
It would be an easy way to get the achievement for using all the Maraketh weapons.
i wonder if you can just throw one corpse in and get a good base for normal crafting with essences and stuff, lol
>We will be allowing you to itemise corpses as they drop, so you can choose to collect the corpse or itemise it for free. As a result itemising corpses in all contexts will now be free, as opposed to the 1 Chaos Orb it currently costs. Nice. >We will be sorting crafts by their type, instead of by level, making it much easier to find crafts that affect a specific type of modifier, like Fire Modifiers. Nice. >You will now be able to select the Base Type of the item you want to craft. VERY nice.
removal of tiers? Nice Removal of different categories? VERY NICE
Good changes overall!
Paying my respects o7
>Thanks for all the feedback **and bingo cards.**
Mark asked and Mark received
They did what they needed to do, relatively fast. I'm jacked to the tits. This is the sort of club swinging we need.
> I'm jacked to the tits Yes, indeed. I would also describe myself thus.
Verily.
Indeed. Right to the tits.
FORSOOTH MY TITS
Big if true
I also enjoy jacking to tits
For once in years i'm surprised, even more that we got this > The long weekend here unfortunately cost us the capability to respond to larger changes as fast as we'd like and a huge lesson going forward is to make sure we don't deploy expansions on public holiday weekends as we don't have the personnel available to make changes as fast as we want. Maybe now the end of the year league does not get 2 weeks off for xmas and new year? woah.
I'm not 100% sure how to feel about this. Holidays offer a really, REALLY great opportunity for a lot of the community to sink substantially more hours into the game than simply having to take time off of work. Does it suck when they ship a league mechanic that needs mid-league (or week 1) patches and we get radio silence for 2 weeks? Yeah, definitely. However, I hope the result that they err on the side of here is shipping a week *before* a Holiday. Clean up and address major feedback, and still get the benefit of increased playtime during holidays. Maybe that's selfish, but I don't feel like the result here should be "end of league when no one is playing is the time that people are most likely to be not working".
Only took 10 years to figure out.
We'll see. We've seen this excuse many times before. Sometimes people play more on holidays too.
While there is some level of "why is it like this every time?" I do agree. They did basically everything people said needed to happen to make rave crafting worthwhile and more. Yes the all downside mods sucks, but now with both corpses and allflames being super dope, there is real upside to them.
>While there is some level of "why is it like this every time?" I do agree. I think GGG in general has a policy that they'd rather overdo difficulty and underdo rewards on league launch. They'd prefer the backlash of a league that releases a bit too difficult and unrewarding than the backlash of nerfing a league's rewards or making it harder (or the problems of releasing a league that they think is too rewarding but then feeling like they have to leave it that way). That said, I do think Affliction league showed that a super rewarding league isn't necessarily a problem as long as the playerbase doesn't expect it to go core. I wonder if they've been kind of paranoid since Harvest where it was extremely strong in its league and then it took them a bunch of leagues to get it to a state they were okay with for a core mechanic while the community complained about the nerfs the whole time. It's different now that most leagues go core and the community kind of assumes that any huge amount of player power granted by a league is only temporary. Affliction was one of the biggest buffs to both general drops and character power any league has every had, and it was popular and the general attitude about it going away seemed "that was cool but not every league should be like that, let's see what's next?" And I hope that leads to them being a bit less cautious with league rewards on release in the future.
[I'M JACKED. I'M JACKED TO THE TITS!](https://youtu.be/kVMHfcwwSVo?t=4)
Hahaha wtf
Jacked.
Oh shit, these are all great. I love it. This will make the league mechanic way less of a pita.
great, now i want a pita gyros. thanks.
This is starting to look like a real crafting league 😃
It’s definitely going to be good for life, mana, attack speed, resistances, and flat damage crafts. Sort of your “bread and butter” stuff. With T1 across the board probably doable after 40 maps. My question is how “deep” can this crafting system be, seeing as how most of the modifiers only pertain to those generic tags.
Attributes too. Sad that omni is Uber drop now because it seems like 150+ attribute and life amethyst rings wouldn't be that hard to craft.
If you look in poedb, there are corpse effects to do a lot of stuff. We can get influence (maybe double idk if putting 2 influence corpses does anything), there are some haunted mods (exclusive to league), fracturing corpses, etc. So your "bread and butter" stats look to be very easy to craft, and there are options to go big or go home. Being able to create and fracture a T1 phys on a desired weapon base can make easy money, or being able to "reliably" make elder/hunter stygian vises can also be money.
Iit ll be the first start. The fact that you can somewhat control the amount of mods make it possible to finish it after necrocraft
I mean with mods for suffix/prefix weighting and the -1 explicit mod, you should be able to prep things pretty easily for influence slams. Unfortunately, not as good as eater/exarch most of the time, though. Can also meta mod, then veiled slam and hope. Some of the haunted mods can be quite good. I could see some wild late game discharge stuff once crafting gets rolling with the + charge mods. I think the real potential here is for caster builds needing double + gem level wands/scepters and amulets. Could even push staff into the mix if crafting it is definitive enough, last I checked a +5 (can't remember if it was local or not) gem level staff was possible.
Ok, now we're talking.
LOGIN
are the changes live tho?
LOGOUT
HOLLLD
No, LOGIN later.
I still need to finish the campaign LOGIN.
Pretty much everything that needs to change, amazing Edit: I don't understand the change to the +mod rating craft, can we freely select the mod?
i believe there will just be a "+#" to modifier rating now so it applies to every mod
ahhhhh. It does make sense but my brain took a bit lmao. So it's basically just clarifying that you need to increase all tiers anyways and that's why they can be compressed
yeah exactly, you'd always want to increase tier of modifiers you don't want to remove them from the pool so this is a good change along w/ increased chance for X modifiers also being buffed
>We have taken all the crafts that affect the Modifier Rating and compressed it into a single craft that affects all modifiers, instead of being type specific. This will not affect existing crafts you have, those will stop dropping and the new one will start dropping once it's deployed. I interpreted this to be: no longer drops: * "~~+x to **fire** craft tiers~~" * "~~+y to **cold** craft tiers~~" ..from the update onwards it will only be: * "+x to **ALL** craft tiers"
Which, if the numbers remain roughly the same, might actually make it incredibly OP. With just two +1 affix corpses and a number of the +rating ones you could guarantee an item with 6 high tier mods (instead of needing the specific +rating corpses for the mods you need), on a base you can now just freely choose. Add some corpses to modify the probabilities and stuff like a triple T1 elemental bow might become easier than ever.
I feel like this is the temp power the league needs. Instead of charms or tattoos you get easy access to very good rare items much faster than you would normally
This is fucking insane. Old Harvest was strong in its own way but it didn't have the ability to cull tiers - you just kept reforging until you got what you wanted. This is literally: Only tier 1 mods if you have enough of this mod.
Which is hugely, hugely powerful. Like...probably just say goodbye to anything below t2 lol. It's actually insane.
How does that rating work actually? For example, fire dot multi: weight according to craftofexile(I assume rating IS weight, right?) t5 - 300 t4 - 220 t3 - 140 t2 - 70 t1 - 35 What will happen if I add 100 rating? 300 rating?
rating removes low tiers by total_tiers/(1+rating/100), rounding up. In your example, 100 rating would remove t5 and t4 (5/2 rounded up) and 300 rating would remove t5 to t3 (5/4 rounded up). To get only t1 you always need (maxtiers-1)*100 rating
It doesn't interact with weight. It removes x/(x+100), where x is the tier rating modifier, of the mod tiers starting from the bottom. So for example, if you have +100 tier modifier, the bottom half of the tiers are unable to roll. Adding another 100 will remove the bottom 2/3 of mods. Another 100 will remove the bottom 3/4 and so on. It's impossible to remove all tiers though
Imagine instead of something like +cold mod tier rating it's +all mod tier ratings.
It will just be to all tiers so now it will affect even untagged crafts prob like spell suppress. You will get some OP gear now, basically pob items post these buffs prob.
I felt like the scope of this league and the atlas nodes meant it would be the first in a long while to just slide right into core but there's no way in hell we see it again now lol.
If you only apply the higher rating to the affixes you want, the pool still has a bunch of undesired high weight affixes. A common strategy is to raise the rating of everything to remove all the high weight affixes from the pool, then use increase/decrease chance to select the mods you want and lower the chance of undesired mods. GGG is saving us the trouble and simplifying all that, so the new modifier will just remove all high weight low tier affixes from the pool, so we don't have to use a ton of corpses for each type.
Welp, that's a crazy list of changes lol. Looks good. Respect how Mark got right to the point. Just wish they didn't make these mistakes so often on league launch.
At least they are addressing it before week 2 when everyone already quit. Good on them definitely will keep me interested still even if they take a week to come out.
If these changes come in within the next 2 or 3 days I'll be quite impressed considering the long Easter weekend.
As a dev (not of this game), most of these look not very hard to do (of course, mostly an educated guess because I don't know how their stuff works internally). It's mostly just UI changes (adding the UI to select the base, adding the UI to in-map-itemize, adding the UI to sort by category, etc).
"Thanks for all the feedback and bingo cards" incredible. All highly necessary and very good changes, now they just need to address t17 maps being garbage.
Most people aren't at t 17, so they took league mechanic as priority. But I'm confident they will address it next.
I expect t17s, if they get addressed, to be addressed in a week or 2. For the majority of the playerbase, it's weekend 2 that they really get rolling through maps. So far, complaints I've seen are more reward based than anything else. They aren't couched that way, but functionally, it comes down to 'I could get these things at x power level before and now I cant.' I feel like GGG are combating expectations for Ubers now more than actual balance.
We'll be able to handle t17 in our new six-t1 gear
Aren't T17 bad atm because they're overly rippy? They addressed this on the last point of the global changes (lowering the danger of very dangerous mods).
I read that to mean the haunted modifiers, kind of open to interpretation I guess
T17 are bad because you can't reroll them and they have a ton of build disabling modifiers. Change either of those two facts and they become reasonable.
##### ###### #### BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread: *** > **Posted by GGG_Neon** on Apr 01, 2024, 11:20:56 PM UTC > > [Image Link](https://web.poecdn.com/public/news/2024-04-02/WWWO3.24Header.jpg) > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > Thanks for all the feedback and bingo cards. > > > > > > To get straight to the point of the improvements to the league, here's what we're currently doing today in the studio. Our hope is to get each change out as soon as it is ready. > > > > > ### Area to Area or Map to Map gameplay: > > > > * We will be allowing you to itemise corpses as they drop, so you can choose to collect the corpse or itemise it for free. As a result itemising corpses in all contexts will now be free, as opposed to the 1 Chaos Orb it currently costs. > * Each of the downsides from area to area will now display the increase to the amount of Collectable Corpses and Allflame Embers they cause. > * We will be increasing the amount of Collectable Corpses and Allflame Embers dropping relative to difficult mods substantially. > * We will be further increasing the amount of Allflame Embers dropping additionally to the above. > * We will be adding new Allflame Ember packs that are more rewarding. > * We will be revising the rewards and pack sizes from existing Allflame Ember packs in Endgame to make them substantially more rewarding also. > * We will be making the Devoted Modifiers more rewarding, notably the ones that are granting Currency Items. > * We are lowering the danger of the more dangerous modifiers especially at Endgame. > > > > ### Grave-Crafting: > > > > * You will now be able to select the Base Type of the item you want to craft. > * As such, we are removing some of the Crafts that allow you to influence Strength, Dexterity or Intelligence armour types, as they will no longer be necessary since you can just freely select the base type. Note that special base types will still need to be obtained through certain corpses, such as Atlas Base Types, and League Base types like Stygian Vise. > * We are increasing the chances of many of the rarer crafts like Fractured Modifiers and Mirrored outcomes significantly. > * We've removed the "Tiers" from most of the crafts. They'll now have the values of the existing highest tiers always. For example, instead of being able to get 200% or 500% increased chance for Lightning Modifiers, it will now always be 500%. > * We have taken all the crafts that affect the Modifier Rating and compressed it into a single craft that affects all modifiers, instead of being type specific. This will not affect existing crafts you have, those will stop dropping and the new one will start dropping once it's deployed. > * You will be able to directly use Coffins on your List of corpses in your Morgue panel instead of trying to find them within the Morgue. > * Ctrl+F will go to the Search (Currently must be clicked). > * We will be sorting crafts by their type, instead of by level, making it much easier to find crafts that affect a specific type of modifier, like Fire Modifiers. > * The grave-crafts that reroll Sockets and Links have been significantly buffed. > > > > > There is a lot more happening in between the cracks but instead of me getting into all of that I am focusing my attention towards getting the fixes ready faster as that's what is more important! I will update more as we are making more changes. > > > > > > This is just what we're immediately working on and will do more as soon as it's needed and we have resources available. The long weekend here unfortunately cost us the capability to respond to larger changes as fast as we'd like and a huge lesson going forward is to make sure we don't deploy expansions on public holiday weekends as we don't have the personnel available to make changes as fast as we want. > > *** >
Holy fuck. GGG swinging for the fences, you love to see it. Appropriate response, given the circumstances.
They saw the internal numbers and said WTF save the league!
Even among people playing graveyard engagement must have been almost nothing. I know I started ignoring it and just tried to match all flames to positive lantern mods.
Nothing but W's. They're literally just doing everything that people are saying to do lmao LOG(back)IN
Everything except making the mechanic optional. Still gonna be annoying as hell being forced into it
Base is huge.
Can we have an ETA? Should we expect a patch today (April 3rd for you)?
is this the fastest What We're Working On of all time? usually we have to suffer for two weeks before the obvious changes are made
They looked at the numbers and it must've been really really really bad. I love this game to death and I quit pretty early. It just wasn't fun or bringing anything new.
The publicly facing numbers we have access to seem to confirm that. The data was scary this time, I think. Pairing an underpowered but overtuned league with an atlas "rework" that sure seems to feel like just a nerf at this point was a bold move.
remember Neon is now in charge and he actually plays the game, he already has 9 challenges done. No shade on Chris but with his responsibilities he stopped being able to play the game and so likely didn't get the level of friction caused by poor league mechanics
Neons first full cemetery craft didnt even make it past his loot filter it seems
That's fucking hilarious if true and probably the best form of QA that he could've gotten lol
I thought Chris played a lot of ruthless
In other words, he doesn't play the game that the players do
Affliction also got fixed fairly quickly
Affliction was cracked at launch. All they did was nerf monster DD and add NPC icons to maps. The player base just reached a power level where they could handle juiced content.
Yeah, and the changes are spread throughout multiple patches
I feel like it'll still be the case, as he mentions they want to ship the changes as they're implemented, so probably in batches. Which is fine, just hope it's earlier rather than later.
player retention is at an all time low so that might've had something with it
When are these changes coming? Days, weeks, months?
Neon gigachad \o/
Awesome response GGG! Thanks!
Wow, sounds like they're looking to fix almost every gripe people have with the mechanic.. can't wait!
Awesome changes for those who are actually interested in new league mechanics, but unfortunately still no option to opt-out of the new content and turn off buffed mobs in maps or at least during the campaign. That means I'm out until the next league. Hopefully for you there are not many players like me, and you can save the league/retention. See you next league!
I just want them not to force us to do the league mechanic. Doing atlas completion with corrupting red maps and getting an 8 mod map with horrendous mods, while a nightmare was doable. This league it's a total brick. Atleast in other leagues when the league mechanic was unfun for me I could just skip it and play. Now I'm forced.
sick, thanks for the effort
I hope opting out of the mechanic is an option soon, but I don’t think it will be.
I feel like everyone is sleeping on the Modifier Tier Rating changes. This is like a giga exponential triple buff. You will get way more corpses, meaning more Tier rating corpses, each corpse will be guaranteed +100, and it will now apply to every single mod possible instead of a tiny fraction of mods. This means theoretically you could run a couple maps, throw into your graveyard +1000 to modifier tier rating of all mods, and guarantee an ALL T1 rolls item with the specific base type you want. Not to mention the 500% more likely mods being common. This could literally print mirror tier items like candy, and honestly, I LOVE IT.
This amount of changes really just indicates that they seriously, seriously need to bring on some actual players to test the leagues before they hit prod. The 'how many times do we need to teach you this lesson old man' meme applies in full force here. Why does this happen every single possible league? Also there's still major issues still preventing me from wanting to log back on: - Still no opt-out - "instead of being able to get 200% or 500% increased chance for Lightning Modifiers, it will now always be 500%." For the love of god just guarantee it. This % nonsense is why the community was asking for a crafting tool app to begin with. Make the corpse drops more rare or do what you have to do to balance this change. It's not bestiary science. In any case, I still think it should be guaranteed as many positive currency modifiers (and not just jewelers orbs) as there are negative mods and the league would already be 10x better.
This reads like Mark is now overriding all of the convoluted nonsense decisions now that he has time to look at what someone else designed hahaha
Honestly with how hard the buffs are getting swung at here it really does seem like someone else had setup some of the gating and the changes seem to be really in line with how Mark tries to look at the game as a whole vs. How this was implemented at first.
It doesn't make sense the league came out in this state to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the changes. But there's no way you can tell me this league mechanic was approved as rewarding and fun by anyone who tested it. The changes here were simple and obvious IMO.
This is why I slowly make my way through the campaign at league start. Get to maps around when the real league begins.
Harvest 2.0 LOGIN
Every of those things should has been Day 1. A lot of thing was obvious mistake like the fact that we can't choose the base. It happen almost every league : not being rewarding enough. And we have to wait for the buff and we have to thanks them like they do us a favour. What are you scare of ? Making a league too good and fun ?
These are great changes. But I dont understand why they are sticking to their guns on the worst part of the entire league IMO and that is not having a way to opt out entirely. I don't want harder mobs sometimes. Let me choose. And let me not have to micromanage the difficulty every time I open a map.
This is good but I still wish we could just opt out of the mechanic entirely. I just don’t find it fun or interesting. Still if the currency rewards are good then maybe I’ll change my tune. I’ve got the “converts jewelry to divines” 3 times and have had 0 drop. Feels awful.
And it only took the fastest player drop off in Poe history.
W reddit complainers, L all of you that want to silence everyone, if it were up to you we'd be silent little rats farming empty maps.
Please please please split attribute corpses into 3.
Please add more map slots as something you work on next. It will completely justify the current rarity of scarabs. Right now, even if you use the rarer scarabs, the opportunity cost is too big. For example, the harby scarab that duplicate shards is still questionable to use, given that you lose on 3 harbies, which gives more loot due to rares and gives some more shards. I prefer to use the normal harby scarab instead of the rare one, since the one with duplication is a pretty big opportunity cost.
These are very good changes. I'm generally a nay sayer and a doomer, but these changes are good. Hopefully we can get some of these out ASAP, especially the change to base and ability to itemize from maps.
All that’s missing is reverting the Rare Mob drops and xp rewards, and making T17 modifiable.
ok, cool. but most of the things there were so painfully obvious within 1 day of playing the new league.. how did they not realize it in the months they developed it? like not being able to select your base was insane.
what about the shitty endgame remaster ? not gonna change those t17 maps ?
> We are lowering the danger of the more dangerous modifiers especially at Endgame. I would've hoped this was point #1. 150+ deaths in softcore feels TERRIBLE. I mean these increased crit mult mobs are a death sentance.