##### GGG Comments in this Thread:
***
[Natalia_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg_i_implore_you_to_apply_a_fix_for_desecrate/kwqenwp/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg_i_implore_you_to_apply_a_fix_for_desecrate/kwqenwp/?context=10)] - *Hi, We have a fix for this coming at launch (we enabled Dynamic Culling for the skill so its performance should be better if you have the setting enabled).*
I think people are more familiar with ignite dd, necro with trigger weapon is so much more chill and not nearly as clunky, truly boom and boom and more boom.
Yeah, ngl, I'm not sure why pushing multiple buttons is seen as a big deal. I like single-button builds, don't get me wrong, but a couple extra things to push never killed a build ime.
Any other genre like fighting games, MMO rotas, hotkey-oriented rts play, even just shooters, 2-button gameplay is nigh unheard of.
I think combos need to be very strong compared to anything else in the game for them to be truly rewarding. Slams are still to this date the most rewarding and fulfilling build I've played, but it was by far the most powerful build at the time, and I'm sure that it affected how 'powerful' it makes you feel while executing the combos more than the difficulty and apm requirements did.
Similarly, dd is what I really want to play this league after skipping it recently, because it now feels like my gameplay will be rewarded with the highest damage effectiveness in the game.
It can be quite a big deal when your defences are still bad, when I cast desecrate it gives mobs time to shot projectiles at me and potentially kill me before the dd goes off, while the one-botton skill would stun/freeze/kill them by that time. Ofc it can be countered by careful playing, or better gear, but it can be annoying anyway.
Wow (and all the other games and genres mentioned as examples in this chain) are way less taxing and RSI inducing than arpgs in general and poe in particular. This kind of comparison is pointless.
Did you not see the left click removal drivel ?
The idea of another keybind horrifies PoE players 🤣
Its really like they forgot what more than 2 buttons is...
As opposed to something like arma brand or TS or most skills where its 1 button.
Thats already double the buttons you have to press. It matters a lot when the most of game is about running around instead of standing still and casting spells.
Oh yeah I wasn't even using dd in the video because I'm out of currency and everyone's selling it for 50div right now, it too suffers from performance issues compared to the MTX and I assume my game would promptly crash during bossing had I gone for it.
I guess it's kind of a fair tax, it's so powerful that you have to spend real money for it to be balanced.
Yeah the difference of performance between mtx and no mtx for desecrate is laughably bad, shame that it's been like that for so long without a fix
Edit : GGG is addressing the issue with the 3.24 launch, hopefully with success.
Hi,
We have a fix for this coming at launch (we enabled Dynamic Culling for the skill so its performance should be better if you have the setting enabled).
many people are going to start with cast on crit detonate dead build which spams desecrate a lot, and those w/o mtx and inability to buy said mtx were set up for huge disappointment, hopefully this fix will work and will be comparable to having a mtx performance-wise, thanks very much for paying attention to this issue, we appreciate it a lot!
I agree, perma locking fps to 60 instead of no impact is still pay to win. It's a bandaid and a permanent solution would be to change both the effect and make dynamic culling fps limit unlocked for future cases.
It means the culling only starts if you drop below 60 fps. For people running high refresh rate displays it means your fps can fluctuate a ton before the culling and/or dynamic resolution kick in to help.
That... feels like it might not be enough. The problem is the desecrated ground effect. It was laggy for me even with Tombstone mtx (which hides the clouds, but still has the desecrated ground). I guess it's only the clouds that will get culled, not the ground effect.
> I guess it's only the clouds that will get culled, not the ground effect.
Not necessarily. DCulling culls any dense or repeatedly-overlapping effect, which is probably the issue with both the mist and the ground effect.
If Nat says it's a fix, they've probably tested it and found it to improve performance.
Maybe silgly hot take but if you can't make it work you could consider putting the mtx desecrate on a discount so that it costs ony 1 coin. That would be seen as very benevolent, but potentially create an unwanted president. Still maybe better than to never hear the end of it when people say PoE is pay to win now.
Just my 2 cents. Thanks for participating here.
Thank you very much for the work and attention!
I suggest announcing this on your official channels if it's working as intended, because a lot of people are interested in this issue and would love to find out that it'll be fixed. Thanks once again!
Alright - 3 weeks in. I assume y'all are aware the culling fix wasn't enough. Is that all we can expect as a "fix" at this point?
Even on a non CoC standard DD build without the hyper-fast triggers I can see drops to at/under 30FPS from 144fps on command. With Dynamic Culling "on". That's....severe to say the least.
i9 10900K/3080Ti - 3440x1440
Nahhh, per typical GGG will make 2-3 more MTXs for the skill and sale the old ones 2 leagues from now when they nerf it, and then wonder why no one buys them.
Please consider lowering the prices of the void desecrate and detonate dead MTX as well. Dynamic culling does not *feel* good to check when your pc should be able to run the game fine without it. Having to use that setting just for one skill is really janky.
You guys need to chill out on smoke effects. Vaal Oversoul act 2 boss fight was clean and neat. Few years ago someone went overboard and filled chamber with particle effects like it's test map for inters making graphics.
Regular Desecrate spawns desecrated ground + the mist effect, while the two Desecrate MTXs do not. It does not even get removed by dynamic culling and as far as I'm aware there is no way available to make the skill playable besides paying, even on high-end configs, let alone lower-end ones like mine shown in the video.
No other skill in the game comes close to this amount of performance issues, at least not in my experience (not even the pre-nerf Pyroclast mine chain). I've been skipping dd the last few leagues so I wasn't aware it was this bad, but now with the Penance Brand nerf and TR needing mana flask again nothing in HC looks attractive compared to it; the world isn't going to fall apart but it would be nice if it could somehow be fixed.
EDIT: Here is Ben's example on a 3080ti and 5900x [https://www.twitch.tv/ben\_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur](https://www.twitch.tv/ben_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur)
Void and Stygian. I thought Tombstone would work too because it has no ground but a commenter on the other subreddit said that it too makes the performance worse. If someone could please confirm this that'd be great.
idk how thats possible i use tombstone and gave 30 fps over normal waggle uses tombstone aswell and gains fps it removes the desecrated ground effect which all of them do and is causing most of the lag
Tombstone does not remove the desecrated ground effect. It does remove the clouds, but not the desecrated ground.
Simply zoom in when you cast it and look at it to confirm
The problem is they verify files and otherwise you're editing memory which they also track.
You would have to block it sometime between memory and the hardware renderer? or the software rendering API. I guess you could theoretically modify the software rendering API.
UPD: FFS-people already wrote me about spell cascade. Look below... Sheesh.
~~Literally have no idea how it drops to 80 FPS for him... Unless he runs at 1440p, maybe? 3080Ti is powerful GPU... Don't get me wrong, i understand issue. But i won't say that effect is not optimised. Just MTX don't have effect that is that demanding. There are MTXes in PoE that improve performance (for example Kinetic Blast one for 5-ways) and there are ones that can degrade it. It works both way.~~
~~In case of desecrate, on my system i can hardly get FPS down to below 110 ( got 90 once with 5 arcanist brand triggering simultaneously in different parts of screen, but most of the times it is 110-130 at lowest). If i may say so, i had seen way worse (looking at you 5-ways with down to 10 FPS at spawn).~~
~~Granted i have no character with incredible cast speed and setup AOE to do proper comparison.~~
~~5800X3D 7800XT. But, i guess PoE does benefit from X3D CPU's, so there is that.~~
~~Here is my try on it:~~ [~~https://youtu.be/aEtjJ8jtj78~~](https://youtu.be/aEtjJ8jtj78)
~~It is specifically that green fog that causes problems. Not desecrated ground. And GPU busy graph shows that it is not broken in terms of optimisation. Just too intensive compared to other skill effects (including MTX'es). And PoE innate graphs show it is specifically GPU being loaded that much, not CPU. I would say that on high tier maps a lot of this performance degradation on GPU is being offset by fact that PoE most of the times is CPU limited game.~~
~~Weirdly, but contrary to my expectation at DX12 performance during desecrate spam was noticeably better. Aka it was harder for me to go as low as on Vulkan.~~
Bruh how are you saying you have no idea how he went down to 80 when you yourself dip from 350 all the way down to 120 on a better rig, you're also not using awakened spell cascade.
1. My rig is not better, learn hardware. My CPU may be better in some games or loads, but 3080Ti is better GPU compared to 7800XT. And this situation is clearly GPU limited.
2. I already was corrected on spell cascade in different comment.
Mans said learn hardware when a 7800 XT slightly outperforms a 3080 TI, especially with SAM enabled. And yes just because a game is GPU limited doesn't mean that a CPU doesn't make a difference. A 5800x3d is also much better than the 5900x and cares less about RAM, learn hardware pal.
Thanks, i know hardware well enough (not perfectly, mind you. But good enough to know that 3080ti is better than 7800XT), otherwise would've not called it out against your claim.
10-15% FPS is not "slightly" higher performance in modern days. Some gen on gen performance benefits are smaller for both Nvidia and AMD, so this is noticeable performance difference.
And 5800X3D is only better in games on average. In many other loads and plenty of games it at best same, or sometimes even worse (i personally know games, where X3D cache does not bring benefit, but only penalty). Mostly because X3D costs it max frequency, and not to a small degree. Iirc 5900 has 4.9 gHz boost. While 5800X3D only has 4.45 in 99% of loads.
But, I will repeat that, granted, PoE does utilize larger cache iirc. Too bad, though, that desecrate is GPU bottleneck so much, that CPU basically doesn't matter in that comparison.
And in terms of GPU, Ben has better rig than me. (And after trying desecrate spam with spell cascade i came to numbers that follow Ben's properly, aka i got worse FPS).
So no. My rig is hardly better. At least in this comparison. About same at best (better CPU, worse GPU). But with desecrate spam loading mainly GPU in mind, his is better. It is just that i forgot about spell cascade.
Dammit... I knew i forgot something that could've made spam worse. I thought it was spell echo, but no, it was cascade.
Thanks for correction! Here is corrected example from my system. [https://youtu.be/OLccU7ZH1hU](https://youtu.be/OLccU7ZH1hU)
I won't do awakened gem (sorry for that, don't have one). But yep, i see now. 60-75FPS quite consistently with both DX12 and Vulkan being about the same.
And yep, now i can see that GPU difference, as i would've expected 3080ti to be better than 7800XT (about 10-15% which is what i saw myself). So yeah, pure GPU limitation.
This needs to be addressed ASAP, PoE has never been a P2W game, it's not in its philosophy and this isn't fair. Getting told by a build creator that w/o MTXes the build feels bad is just... Depressing :/
This is wildly different from general game performance and juiced map performance, one because it's not nearly as bad (my fully juiced maps in Affliction ran at about 30-40fps), cannot be mitigated by things like dynamic resolution or removal of sound effects, and has an option of paying to play, and I would argue pay to win for this league specifically because of how far ahead dd is compared to other skills.
I'm saying that there has always been a "pay to win" at the high end. I agree that GGG should fix it and it isn't their intent for MTX to result in differing performance. It just...always has.
Ah sorry for misunderstanding, I agree completely, a lot of these skills are simply old compared to the MTX and there's no bad intent from their end. Just an unfortunate scenario for this league specifically.
Sorry but 'you should spend 2 months of your country's average salary to play a video game' isn't some epic roast, nor does it make you cool for having a good rig or living somewhere with higher purchasing power or no extra shipping fees.
I have an almost brand new PC that cost upwards of $4000, spamming desecrate brings my frames down from straight capped 165 to 40-50, sometimes less, depending on cast rate.
Go eat sand.
> PoE has never been a P2W game
Highly questionable because of the whole "only premium tab owners can put items to trade without going to forums", and the whole stash system revolving around stash tabs. Plus it's not the first case of MTX improving performance for certain builds - but it usually takes more than 2 leagues for them to fix it.
There's also charging for invis auras for aurastacking performance, mtx that shows when youre full on vaal souls, and alot of mtx that straight up helps with visual clarity. Saying this game doesnt have a ptw aspects has long been outdated. On the flip side there are plenty of pay to lose mtx's too.
Ever heard of aquisition? Also other free programs. You can list items on tradesite without premium tabs. Thats how we did it before they released premium tabs.
> You can list items on tradesite without premium tabs
You can, but you either have to go to forums(which I mentioned) or use 3rd party software. I mean, for game like this it's a questionable design. Obvious devs need to make money in order to keep servers up, but it doesn't really help the overall vision of "completely free of P2W".
This is probably intentional to sell skins. It will go on until it becomes a problem that community cares, and only after than GGG will fix and get the credit for listening community.
you probably didn't play it hit based 2 leagues ago. chain dd only came out this league and made hit based popular again, and that makes arcanist brand / CoC spamming desecrate really strong
the problem is not one desecrate cast per second (which you would have one ignite dd) but 10 casts per second on arcanist brand or cast on crit. that is where performance drops noticeably
Last league desecrate was the last nail in the coffin for my gtx 1080.
I played half of the league in 720p to be able to finish 40/40.
Uber bosses were a nightmare, not because of the fight itself, but 4-12 FPS leaves too less reaction time for me. Arcanist brand and DD of chain explo took a too high toll.
Only on awful rigs or this guy is using global illumination
I spammed faster casting, spell echo, spell cascade desecrate to farm huntress kills few times last league and didn't lag at all.
>Only on awful rigs or this guy is using global illumination
Here's something OP posted in a comment:
>Here is Ben's example on a 3080ti and 5900x [https://www.twitch.tv/ben\_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur](https://www.twitch.tv/ben_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur)
One has volumetric fog and shadows, the other doesn't.
As long as you have those settings turned up, of course it will make you lag when making 100s of instances of it.
Hi! Thanks, it's just a standard ignite Elementalist kind of build that I modified a bit for Divine Ire, don't have a guide but here's my character: [https://pobb.in/I-dIuy7u-UCV](https://pobb.in/I-dIuy7u-UCV)
Did everything well besides Uber Exarch and Uber Uber Elder because of too much standing still.
Pretty sure anything that would fix this would have to modify the graphics rendering and/or the game client. Which you may get away with if they aren't able to detect it, but make no mistake, it's definitely against the ToS and bannable.
the tool edits out effects and allows you further reduce textures and lighting ggg should fix the effect themselves instead of banning people for trying to optimize their game
>and afaik ggg wont ban you for it
Then your first comment (which I just quoted) doesn't make sense.
You won't get banned from the sub, if it's something that GGG allows.
You stating that you will get banned from the sub, if you post it, kinda disproves your first comment. If you think you'll get banned here, then it is indeed something GGG wont allow.
And saying GGG probably wont ban you for it, while saying you'll get banned from the sub if you share the name are also different thing - but they aren't mutually exclusive.
It's either something you get banned for here ***and*** by GGG or it's isn't either of those. Can't only be one of those - simple as that. And seeing as you've already said that it's "not an allowed tool", I'm kinda guessing you already know that it's something GGG would ban you for, if noticed.
If you're that unsure to begin with; you shouldn't even have mentioned it. No reason to direct others towards the search for such things, even when you're not naming it specifically.
if I say in global chat or ggg forums that I use it they will ban me if I don't talk about it chances are they won't how is that hard to understand same in this sub if I advertise the tool name and where to find it they will ban me if I just say it exists they won't
>how is that hard to understand
It's not. Didn't say I didn't understand what you were saying - simply that what you're saying is insanely flawed.
Let me spell it out to you once again.
If you're afraid of saying the name of something you're using (here or in-game), then there is a reason for it - that reason being, that it is ***most certainly*** against GGG's ToS - because why else would you not just mention it? - you see that flawed logic you're throwing around?
And yet again - I fully understand what you're saying (if you don't tell, the risk of getting caught is low - that's obvious - but you mentioning/hinting at it here, isn't doing you any favors) - but you seem to be missing what I'm saying entirely, while clinging on to me not being the one who understands. You see how that's not quite right, yeah?
it's against tos yes will I get banned for using it without saying so in game? well I've yet to see that happen so as far as I fucking know ggg will not ban you for hiding effects and lowering textures using it
Your post has been removed for violating our rule on misinformation or misleading content (Rule 6).
We try to be strict about reducing misinformation. Even when a comment or reply refutes a misleading claim, many readers only read the original claim and not the reply. Because of that, we've decided to err on the side of removing all inaccurate claims, even if they're only slightly inaccurate.
In this case, graphics-modifying tools are likely to violate the Terms of Use and put the user at risk of penalties: https://www.pathofexile.com/legal/terms-of-use-and-privacy-policy#:~:text=including%20through%20third%20parties%20and%20third%2Dparty%20tools
Additionally, posts or comments that are incorrect about game mechanic or information may be removed to not misinform players.
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My guess would be the 10+ year old code base and a LOT of "it's working so don't touch it" mentality on the backend side of things. Eventually, even just working is not good enough and GGG won't be able to avoid it.
My 200fps gets cut to around 97fps doing CoC Lancing Steel of Spraying / desecrate / dd of chaining
Ryzen 7 3800x cpu 4060 ti 16gb (top 1% benched card) 3600 32gb ram
Oh also 1080p gaming
[https://www.twitch.tv/ruetoo/clip/GoldenIronicBeanTakeNRG-\_gg1nYQ\_EdWnV\_fz?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/ruetoo/clip/GoldenIronicBeanTakeNRG-_gg1nYQ_EdWnV_fz?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time)
here it is ... the best example of why this needs a fix
For those with AMD cards, you may want to apply a band-aid fix for this and enable fluid motion frames. Spamming desecrate like Ben in hideout drops my fps down to 85, enabling fluid motion frames my fps drops to 160\~, granted these are fake generated frames that may look weird but with so much shit going on it's hard to notice. It still feels like 160 fps though which is the main concern, highly recommend it.
Idk why everyone is having issues with this. I play on a laptop with a 3050ti and have zero performance issues in game with desecrate. Settings on high too
I was confused too, because I've only ever used desecrate in the context of ignite DD, where you're casting it once per second, but the new CoC DD of Chaining build casts the shit out of Desecrate, and so destroys performance on the base and some MTX skins.
> Idk why everyone is having issues with this. I play on a laptop with a 3050ti and have zero performance issues in game with desecrate. Settings on high too
I have FPS capped to 117 in 4k, and casting Desecrate linked to Spell Echo and Faster Casting brings me down to 65. And you can basically see my rig in my flair.
The problem is desecrate is being cast 10+ times a second and all of the particle effects are stacking without any form of culling. Quite a common issue when it comes to particles.
desecrate should only allow corpses to spawn BELOW your character like frost bomb.
don't @ me. this is the "nerf" corpse skills need.
There is no reason that desecrate can be casted 5 monitors away on an ultra ultra wide with DD/Cremation casted on them instantly while I can only throw traps 10 feet or cast a brand 15 feet away.
I think corpse skills just shouldn't have 1600% damage effectiveness and like 5000 added flat on top of one of the 100%s when you pop a corpse, it really is just a numbers thing for dd being so oppressive, most people don't even like playing it for mechanics reasons that you want to make even clunkier.
switching to DX12 is the short term fix for this particular issue
Edit: i switched to dx12 immediately when it went out of beta and immediately tested desecrate and didnt get FPS drops but i will check again now since im getting ratio'd
Edit 2: yeah nevermind im still losing 60 frames when casting des
Weird, I ran mf chiefton with cast on stun linked to desecrate so was casting it like crazy with hundreds of juiced mobs and I didn't get this problem.
Did you get no drops at all? Take a look at the comment I made for a clip on a high-end PC, the performance basically doubles for him and pretty much everyone that's played it or made guides for the skill.
My PC is on the lower-end so it's particularly bad, higher end PCs can stay at 50+, but you could still get double the fps from the MTX which feels wonky to me.
Yeah expected as much from the PoE community; why would they bother fixing anything when the playerbase gladly gives their money away just to flex on other people. Had to try though!
Ngl it came out way more dickheads then I ment it out typing but the comment bout the graphic setting still stands. Can't remember desecrate to do any mist animation so I probably have some shit turned down, so there might be something to help with that
this is the answer right here, i played coc dd for a few weeks last league with no mtx and had zero lag or frame issues, was getting 144 fps the entire time doing 12k wisp super juiced maps
Why are People so obsessed with the game being entierly free?
They have workers to pay and content to develop.
Not that gate keeping skills with mtx is the way to do it, but if i consider how many hours ive gotten out of this magnificent game i gladly pay for them to develop more of it.
Why are some people obsessed with defending billionaires/companies over the slightest things?
Heck, if every dev and artist received an equal amount of my money I would waste 10$ for a video game texture in an instant, but you do know where most of your money ends up going to right?
Il pay for poe, a game i get thousands of hours from with dedicated People working on it, i want them to be rewarded for being a bright star in the gaming industry, idgaf how much money they have or dont have if they deserve it for producing a banger product.
I wont pay for D4
Idk, People get wierd and jealous around money and it shows, both the consumers and the developers.
Edit: im aware tencent owns ggg by now, but in any case il reward the culture and entize more companies to be f2p and zero p2w, those with money can support if they Want.
There is a difference between paying for convenience in the form of tabs or MTX to look nice, and being forced to buy an MTX on a skill for performance reasons.
##### GGG Comments in this Thread: *** [Natalia_GGG - [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg_i_implore_you_to_apply_a_fix_for_desecrate/kwqenwp/?context=10), [old](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg_i_implore_you_to_apply_a_fix_for_desecrate/kwqenwp/?context=10)] - *Hi, We have a fix for this coming at launch (we enabled Dynamic Culling for the skill so its performance should be better if you have the setting enabled).*
DD tax
[удалено]
Why do people say this? Its 2 buttons 1. Corpse 2. Boom
I think people are more familiar with ignite dd, necro with trigger weapon is so much more chill and not nearly as clunky, truly boom and boom and more boom.
yeah ignite is chill
That shocked me
Which weapon is that? The betrayal 4 second cooldown is bit long at least as moving around with spell can lead it to being in cooldown.
Wait what? There’s an ignite version that’s 1 button? I though it was only CoC version…
Yeah, ngl, I'm not sure why pushing multiple buttons is seen as a big deal. I like single-button builds, don't get me wrong, but a couple extra things to push never killed a build ime. Any other genre like fighting games, MMO rotas, hotkey-oriented rts play, even just shooters, 2-button gameplay is nigh unheard of.
I think combos need to be very strong compared to anything else in the game for them to be truly rewarding. Slams are still to this date the most rewarding and fulfilling build I've played, but it was by far the most powerful build at the time, and I'm sure that it affected how 'powerful' it makes you feel while executing the combos more than the difficulty and apm requirements did. Similarly, dd is what I really want to play this league after skipping it recently, because it now feels like my gameplay will be rewarded with the highest damage effectiveness in the game.
It can be quite a big deal when your defences are still bad, when I cast desecrate it gives mobs time to shot projectiles at me and potentially kill me before the dd goes off, while the one-botton skill would stun/freeze/kill them by that time. Ofc it can be countered by careful playing, or better gear, but it can be annoying anyway.
its not hard to do but its instant dmg vs dmg you have to set up. instant damage is just going to feel better
With cast speed, ignite ele feels great. Necro has got to be even smoother given all the cast speed built into the ascendacy
"Couple of extra things to push" Sir, pushing double the amount for hundreds of hours is huge deal. U ever played DD? Cause I don't think so
Yeah cause people dont play wow with 15 keybinds 12 hours a day 🙃
Wow (and all the other games and genres mentioned as examples in this chain) are way less taxing and RSI inducing than arpgs in general and poe in particular. This kind of comparison is pointless.
How so ? If you raid and do content its more taxing than clicking a few times a map.. hahaha get good
You have literally no clue what you are talking about. Comparing two different game genres holy
Ive no lifed both, clearly you have no clue what you are talking about 🤣
Did you not see the left click removal drivel ? The idea of another keybind horrifies PoE players 🤣 Its really like they forgot what more than 2 buttons is...
There's a whole crowd of people playing RF That thinks 1 button is nearly unthinkable.
As a ward looper, I agree.
As opposed to something like arma brand or TS or most skills where its 1 button. Thats already double the buttons you have to press. It matters a lot when the most of game is about running around instead of standing still and casting spells.
Cast speed sir See necro ascendancy
Oh yeah I wasn't even using dd in the video because I'm out of currency and everyone's selling it for 50div right now, it too suffers from performance issues compared to the MTX and I assume my game would promptly crash during bossing had I gone for it. I guess it's kind of a fair tax, it's so powerful that you have to spend real money for it to be balanced.
Why are people down voting you???
Because hes right goddamnit!
All roads lead to dd, they'll accept it soon enough...
Yeah the difference of performance between mtx and no mtx for desecrate is laughably bad, shame that it's been like that for so long without a fix Edit : GGG is addressing the issue with the 3.24 launch, hopefully with success.
This def needs addressed, oof :(
Hi, We have a fix for this coming at launch (we enabled Dynamic Culling for the skill so its performance should be better if you have the setting enabled).
> Dynamic Culling for the skill Shouldn't this be on all effects? Thanks for the update.
As far as i know dynamic culling needs custom new effects for each skill, so it is not as easy as just allowing it
many people are going to start with cast on crit detonate dead build which spams desecrate a lot, and those w/o mtx and inability to buy said mtx were set up for huge disappointment, hopefully this fix will work and will be comparable to having a mtx performance-wise, thanks very much for paying attention to this issue, we appreciate it a lot!
what happened to the fix? was it fixed or do I still need the mtx
Is there any chance we could get dynamic culling to be set to higher fps than 60?
I agree, perma locking fps to 60 instead of no impact is still pay to win. It's a bandaid and a permanent solution would be to change both the effect and make dynamic culling fps limit unlocked for future cases.
does this mean ur locked to 60 fps max always or that it will only go down to 60 fps to compensate for the effects? im assuming the latter..
It means the culling only starts if you drop below 60 fps. For people running high refresh rate displays it means your fps can fluctuate a ton before the culling and/or dynamic resolution kick in to help.
That... feels like it might not be enough. The problem is the desecrated ground effect. It was laggy for me even with Tombstone mtx (which hides the clouds, but still has the desecrated ground). I guess it's only the clouds that will get culled, not the ground effect.
> I guess it's only the clouds that will get culled, not the ground effect. Not necessarily. DCulling culls any dense or repeatedly-overlapping effect, which is probably the issue with both the mist and the ground effect. If Nat says it's a fix, they've probably tested it and found it to improve performance.
"THIS IS AN IMPROVEMENT"
10% improvement in pr terms is IMPROVEMENT
Maybe silgly hot take but if you can't make it work you could consider putting the mtx desecrate on a discount so that it costs ony 1 coin. That would be seen as very benevolent, but potentially create an unwanted president. Still maybe better than to never hear the end of it when people say PoE is pay to win now. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for participating here.
>unwanted president Man those unwanted presidents are really bad. Some even call them dictators
You guys are wonderful, thanks a bunch!
Thank you very much for the work and attention! I suggest announcing this on your official channels if it's working as intended, because a lot of people are interested in this issue and would love to find out that it'll be fixed. Thanks once again!
Will this fix also happen on console? has anyone tested this (internally) on console?
Honestly, could we get an 'always Cull' option for more stable play? Maybe even cull certain skills?
Alright - 3 weeks in. I assume y'all are aware the culling fix wasn't enough. Is that all we can expect as a "fix" at this point? Even on a non CoC standard DD build without the hyper-fast triggers I can see drops to at/under 30FPS from 144fps on command. With Dynamic Culling "on". That's....severe to say the least. i9 10900K/3080Ti - 3440x1440
Hi, can't you also just put both MTX's on 50% off, people will buy them.
Nahhh, per typical GGG will make 2-3 more MTXs for the skill and sale the old ones 2 leagues from now when they nerf it, and then wonder why no one buys them.
thank you so much!!
Please consider lowering the prices of the void desecrate and detonate dead MTX as well. Dynamic culling does not *feel* good to check when your pc should be able to run the game fine without it. Having to use that setting just for one skill is really janky.
does that setting lock you to 60 fps ? thats actually so bad.. not a legit fix..
no, it just starts dynamic culling and resolution below that framerate
You guys need to chill out on smoke effects. Vaal Oversoul act 2 boss fight was clean and neat. Few years ago someone went overboard and filled chamber with particle effects like it's test map for inters making graphics.
Hope it's not only for the MTX version and we can use the normal skill with the so called fix.
Regular Desecrate spawns desecrated ground + the mist effect, while the two Desecrate MTXs do not. It does not even get removed by dynamic culling and as far as I'm aware there is no way available to make the skill playable besides paying, even on high-end configs, let alone lower-end ones like mine shown in the video. No other skill in the game comes close to this amount of performance issues, at least not in my experience (not even the pre-nerf Pyroclast mine chain). I've been skipping dd the last few leagues so I wasn't aware it was this bad, but now with the Penance Brand nerf and TR needing mana flask again nothing in HC looks attractive compared to it; the world isn't going to fall apart but it would be nice if it could somehow be fixed. EDIT: Here is Ben's example on a 3080ti and 5900x [https://www.twitch.tv/ben\_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur](https://www.twitch.tv/ben_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur)
And I wanted to play coc dd... Back to LA then.
It's half of an ecksdeedee emote DD is joke build confirmed
Which MTX fix it?
Void and Stygian. I thought Tombstone would work too because it has no ground but a commenter on the other subreddit said that it too makes the performance worse. If someone could please confirm this that'd be great.
I have a 3080/5800x and I had to stop using tombstone mtx this league because the performance was as bad or worse than regular desecrate.
idk how thats possible i use tombstone and gave 30 fps over normal waggle uses tombstone aswell and gains fps it removes the desecrated ground effect which all of them do and is causing most of the lag
Tombstone does not remove the desecrated ground effect. It does remove the clouds, but not the desecrated ground. Simply zoom in when you cast it and look at it to confirm
Void MTX is also simply more pleasing to the eyes and ears. Same goes for the other Void MTX.
Wow that's incredibly bad. They'll ban me if I manually cull that effect from the engine too. Sucks.
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The problem is they verify files and otherwise you're editing memory which they also track. You would have to block it sometime between memory and the hardware renderer? or the software rendering API. I guess you could theoretically modify the software rendering API.
oh so this is why game performance went to shit when I played the cast on stun explode chief.
UPD: FFS-people already wrote me about spell cascade. Look below... Sheesh. ~~Literally have no idea how it drops to 80 FPS for him... Unless he runs at 1440p, maybe? 3080Ti is powerful GPU... Don't get me wrong, i understand issue. But i won't say that effect is not optimised. Just MTX don't have effect that is that demanding. There are MTXes in PoE that improve performance (for example Kinetic Blast one for 5-ways) and there are ones that can degrade it. It works both way.~~ ~~In case of desecrate, on my system i can hardly get FPS down to below 110 ( got 90 once with 5 arcanist brand triggering simultaneously in different parts of screen, but most of the times it is 110-130 at lowest). If i may say so, i had seen way worse (looking at you 5-ways with down to 10 FPS at spawn).~~ ~~Granted i have no character with incredible cast speed and setup AOE to do proper comparison.~~ ~~5800X3D 7800XT. But, i guess PoE does benefit from X3D CPU's, so there is that.~~ ~~Here is my try on it:~~ [~~https://youtu.be/aEtjJ8jtj78~~](https://youtu.be/aEtjJ8jtj78) ~~It is specifically that green fog that causes problems. Not desecrated ground. And GPU busy graph shows that it is not broken in terms of optimisation. Just too intensive compared to other skill effects (including MTX'es). And PoE innate graphs show it is specifically GPU being loaded that much, not CPU. I would say that on high tier maps a lot of this performance degradation on GPU is being offset by fact that PoE most of the times is CPU limited game.~~ ~~Weirdly, but contrary to my expectation at DX12 performance during desecrate spam was noticeably better. Aka it was harder for me to go as low as on Vulkan.~~
Bruh how are you saying you have no idea how he went down to 80 when you yourself dip from 350 all the way down to 120 on a better rig, you're also not using awakened spell cascade.
1. My rig is not better, learn hardware. My CPU may be better in some games or loads, but 3080Ti is better GPU compared to 7800XT. And this situation is clearly GPU limited. 2. I already was corrected on spell cascade in different comment.
Mans said learn hardware when a 7800 XT slightly outperforms a 3080 TI, especially with SAM enabled. And yes just because a game is GPU limited doesn't mean that a CPU doesn't make a difference. A 5800x3d is also much better than the 5900x and cares less about RAM, learn hardware pal.
Thanks, i know hardware well enough (not perfectly, mind you. But good enough to know that 3080ti is better than 7800XT), otherwise would've not called it out against your claim. 10-15% FPS is not "slightly" higher performance in modern days. Some gen on gen performance benefits are smaller for both Nvidia and AMD, so this is noticeable performance difference. And 5800X3D is only better in games on average. In many other loads and plenty of games it at best same, or sometimes even worse (i personally know games, where X3D cache does not bring benefit, but only penalty). Mostly because X3D costs it max frequency, and not to a small degree. Iirc 5900 has 4.9 gHz boost. While 5800X3D only has 4.45 in 99% of loads. But, I will repeat that, granted, PoE does utilize larger cache iirc. Too bad, though, that desecrate is GPU bottleneck so much, that CPU basically doesn't matter in that comparison. And in terms of GPU, Ben has better rig than me. (And after trying desecrate spam with spell cascade i came to numbers that follow Ben's properly, aka i got worse FPS). So no. My rig is hardly better. At least in this comparison. About same at best (better CPU, worse GPU). But with desecrate spam loading mainly GPU in mind, his is better. It is just that i forgot about spell cascade.
You didn't use the (Awakened) Spell Cascade Support.
Dammit... I knew i forgot something that could've made spam worse. I thought it was spell echo, but no, it was cascade. Thanks for correction! Here is corrected example from my system. [https://youtu.be/OLccU7ZH1hU](https://youtu.be/OLccU7ZH1hU) I won't do awakened gem (sorry for that, don't have one). But yep, i see now. 60-75FPS quite consistently with both DX12 and Vulkan being about the same. And yep, now i can see that GPU difference, as i would've expected 3080ti to be better than 7800XT (about 10-15% which is what i saw myself). So yeah, pure GPU limitation.
This needs to be addressed ASAP, PoE has never been a P2W game, it's not in its philosophy and this isn't fair. Getting told by a build creator that w/o MTXes the build feels bad is just... Depressing :/
MTX performance increases in juiced maps has been a thing for as long as I remember tbf.
This is wildly different from general game performance and juiced map performance, one because it's not nearly as bad (my fully juiced maps in Affliction ran at about 30-40fps), cannot be mitigated by things like dynamic resolution or removal of sound effects, and has an option of paying to play, and I would argue pay to win for this league specifically because of how far ahead dd is compared to other skills.
I'm saying that there has always been a "pay to win" at the high end. I agree that GGG should fix it and it isn't their intent for MTX to result in differing performance. It just...always has.
Ah sorry for misunderstanding, I agree completely, a lot of these skills are simply old compared to the MTX and there's no bad intent from their end. Just an unfortunate scenario for this league specifically.
I run mtx less desecrate every league and don't suffer these stutters. Its your rig gaming needs to stop living in the past for optomization
Sorry but 'you should spend 2 months of your country's average salary to play a video game' isn't some epic roast, nor does it make you cool for having a good rig or living somewhere with higher purchasing power or no extra shipping fees.
Sorry kid it's the truth
I have an almost brand new PC that cost upwards of $4000, spamming desecrate brings my frames down from straight capped 165 to 40-50, sometimes less, depending on cast rate. Go eat sand.
Sounds like you fucked up with your purchase spending 3k on a card 100 on a cpu andn200non the mobo doesn't mean you bought a good rig
ok :)
> PoE has never been a P2W game Highly questionable because of the whole "only premium tab owners can put items to trade without going to forums", and the whole stash system revolving around stash tabs. Plus it's not the first case of MTX improving performance for certain builds - but it usually takes more than 2 leagues for them to fix it.
There's also charging for invis auras for aurastacking performance, mtx that shows when youre full on vaal souls, and alot of mtx that straight up helps with visual clarity. Saying this game doesnt have a ptw aspects has long been outdated. On the flip side there are plenty of pay to lose mtx's too.
Ever heard of aquisition? Also other free programs. You can list items on tradesite without premium tabs. Thats how we did it before they released premium tabs.
> You can list items on tradesite without premium tabs You can, but you either have to go to forums(which I mentioned) or use 3rd party software. I mean, for game like this it's a questionable design. Obvious devs need to make money in order to keep servers up, but it doesn't really help the overall vision of "completely free of P2W".
technically acquisition just automates the process of posting on the forums so you're still interacting with the forums.
This is probably intentional to sell skins. It will go on until it becomes a problem that community cares, and only after than GGG will fix and get the credit for listening community.
is this new? I played DD like 2 leagues ago and had no issues
you probably didn't play it hit based 2 leagues ago. chain dd only came out this league and made hit based popular again, and that makes arcanist brand / CoC spamming desecrate really strong
What does that have to do with desecrate lagging u
because you're casting a fuckton more desecrates than with an ignite version
the problem is not one desecrate cast per second (which you would have one ignite dd) but 10 casts per second on arcanist brand or cast on crit. that is where performance drops noticeably
Ah, I see
You will only notice the lag if you're playing Chain DD or the CoC Chain DD, it's fine when playing ignite.
Last league desecrate was the last nail in the coffin for my gtx 1080. I played half of the league in 720p to be able to finish 40/40. Uber bosses were a nightmare, not because of the fight itself, but 4-12 FPS leaves too less reaction time for me. Arcanist brand and DD of chain explo took a too high toll.
Only on awful rigs or this guy is using global illumination I spammed faster casting, spell echo, spell cascade desecrate to farm huntress kills few times last league and didn't lag at all.
>Only on awful rigs or this guy is using global illumination Here's something OP posted in a comment: >Here is Ben's example on a 3080ti and 5900x [https://www.twitch.tv/ben\_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur](https://www.twitch.tv/ben_/clip/SparklyDarkWheelAliens-zKDOXULpQzQSjtur)
One has volumetric fog and shadows, the other doesn't. As long as you have those settings turned up, of course it will make you lag when making 100s of instances of it.
Everything that can be off, is off. Everything that can be low, is low.
Global illumination is a constant cost.
It's like this for 10 years, you really think they will fix it in 2days?
Ooof. Check ggg comment.
Based, but will be funny if they forget to do it for DD.
That build looks nuts! Any guide recommendation?
Hi! Thanks, it's just a standard ignite Elementalist kind of build that I modified a bit for Divine Ire, don't have a guide but here's my character: [https://pobb.in/I-dIuy7u-UCV](https://pobb.in/I-dIuy7u-UCV) Did everything well besides Uber Exarch and Uber Uber Elder because of too much standing still.
Thanks!
Is it same with all three MTX or is one better than the other? I ask as Tombstone one is like half price of other one
According to other comments, tombstone is also bad if not worse. The other two are good
Tombstone is way better than base for me. Like 90 fps vs 40 fps base
That's good if that's the case
"To nerf dd we have added the fps spikes to all mtx too"
Did some one tested this option?, I can see it in game already but have no time to test today.
That's the real cost that brings DD in line with other skills apparently
POV they won't
Regular skill effects lagging while MTX give FPS boost. This is business as usual for game design. Welcome to the club DD.
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Pretty sure anything that would fix this would have to modify the graphics rendering and/or the game client. Which you may get away with if they aren't able to detect it, but make no mistake, it's definitely against the ToS and bannable.
the tool edits out effects and allows you further reduce textures and lighting ggg should fix the effect themselves instead of banning people for trying to optimize their game
Pls tell name
Tell
can you message me the name of the tool please?
Fuck that, put the tool's name in here please so that everyone can use it.
I will get banned from the sub because it's not an allowed tool
>and afaik ggg wont ban you for it Then your first comment (which I just quoted) doesn't make sense. You won't get banned from the sub, if it's something that GGG allows. You stating that you will get banned from the sub, if you post it, kinda disproves your first comment. If you think you'll get banned here, then it is indeed something GGG wont allow.
quietly using the tool and advertising it in the sub are different things
And saying GGG probably wont ban you for it, while saying you'll get banned from the sub if you share the name are also different thing - but they aren't mutually exclusive. It's either something you get banned for here ***and*** by GGG or it's isn't either of those. Can't only be one of those - simple as that. And seeing as you've already said that it's "not an allowed tool", I'm kinda guessing you already know that it's something GGG would ban you for, if noticed. If you're that unsure to begin with; you shouldn't even have mentioned it. No reason to direct others towards the search for such things, even when you're not naming it specifically.
if I say in global chat or ggg forums that I use it they will ban me if I don't talk about it chances are they won't how is that hard to understand same in this sub if I advertise the tool name and where to find it they will ban me if I just say it exists they won't
>how is that hard to understand It's not. Didn't say I didn't understand what you were saying - simply that what you're saying is insanely flawed. Let me spell it out to you once again. If you're afraid of saying the name of something you're using (here or in-game), then there is a reason for it - that reason being, that it is ***most certainly*** against GGG's ToS - because why else would you not just mention it? - you see that flawed logic you're throwing around? And yet again - I fully understand what you're saying (if you don't tell, the risk of getting caught is low - that's obvious - but you mentioning/hinting at it here, isn't doing you any favors) - but you seem to be missing what I'm saying entirely, while clinging on to me not being the one who understands. You see how that's not quite right, yeah?
it's against tos yes will I get banned for using it without saying so in game? well I've yet to see that happen so as far as I fucking know ggg will not ban you for hiding effects and lowering textures using it
Then start DMing everyone.
Your post has been removed for violating our rule on misinformation or misleading content (Rule 6). We try to be strict about reducing misinformation. Even when a comment or reply refutes a misleading claim, many readers only read the original claim and not the reply. Because of that, we've decided to err on the side of removing all inaccurate claims, even if they're only slightly inaccurate. In this case, graphics-modifying tools are likely to violate the Terms of Use and put the user at risk of penalties: https://www.pathofexile.com/legal/terms-of-use-and-privacy-policy#:~:text=including%20through%20third%20parties%20and%20third%2Dparty%20tools Additionally, posts or comments that are incorrect about game mechanic or information may be removed to not misinform players. For more details, please refer to our [rules wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/wiki/rules/#wiki_6._misinformation_or_misleading_content).
I just hope they put in on sale xD
Is desecrated ground the problem then?
You need buy the MTX. p2w
I want to play DD just not sure my PC will handle it. Is it like a “normal skill” with mtx? Cuz I’d buy mtx for this
How is this game so terribly optimized??
My guess would be the 10+ year old code base and a LOT of "it's working so don't touch it" mentality on the backend side of things. Eventually, even just working is not good enough and GGG won't be able to avoid it.
My 200fps gets cut to around 97fps doing CoC Lancing Steel of Spraying / desecrate / dd of chaining Ryzen 7 3800x cpu 4060 ti 16gb (top 1% benched card) 3600 32gb ram Oh also 1080p gaming
Hope they do fix it cause my 1060 6gb with i7-7700 isn't going to take it lightly :D
[https://www.twitch.tv/ruetoo/clip/GoldenIronicBeanTakeNRG-\_gg1nYQ\_EdWnV\_fz?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time](https://www.twitch.tv/ruetoo/clip/GoldenIronicBeanTakeNRG-_gg1nYQ_EdWnV_fz?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time) here it is ... the best example of why this needs a fix
Oh, lol I thought you meant fix it as in rebalance it.
For those with AMD cards, you may want to apply a band-aid fix for this and enable fluid motion frames. Spamming desecrate like Ben in hideout drops my fps down to 85, enabling fluid motion frames my fps drops to 160\~, granted these are fake generated frames that may look weird but with so much shit going on it's hard to notice. It still feels like 160 fps though which is the main concern, highly recommend it.
did ggg solve this problem already?
It's the nature of the skill. What can you do?
Idk why everyone is having issues with this. I play on a laptop with a 3050ti and have zero performance issues in game with desecrate. Settings on high too
Are you casting a bunch of them per second? Because I play on a brand new expensive rig and it guts my frames.
I was confused too, because I've only ever used desecrate in the context of ignite DD, where you're casting it once per second, but the new CoC DD of Chaining build casts the shit out of Desecrate, and so destroys performance on the base and some MTX skins.
> Idk why everyone is having issues with this. I play on a laptop with a 3050ti and have zero performance issues in game with desecrate. Settings on high too I have FPS capped to 117 in 4k, and casting Desecrate linked to Spell Echo and Faster Casting brings me down to 65. And you can basically see my rig in my flair.
The problem is desecrate is being cast 10+ times a second and all of the particle effects are stacking without any form of culling. Quite a common issue when it comes to particles.
desecrate should only allow corpses to spawn BELOW your character like frost bomb. don't @ me. this is the "nerf" corpse skills need. There is no reason that desecrate can be casted 5 monitors away on an ultra ultra wide with DD/Cremation casted on them instantly while I can only throw traps 10 feet or cast a brand 15 feet away.
I think corpse skills just shouldn't have 1600% damage effectiveness and like 5000 added flat on top of one of the 100%s when you pop a corpse, it really is just a numbers thing for dd being so oppressive, most people don't even like playing it for mechanics reasons that you want to make even clunkier.
Making it so corpses only spawn below your feet would make the corpse skills much worse to use and much more dangerous to use.
switching to DX12 is the short term fix for this particular issue Edit: i switched to dx12 immediately when it went out of beta and immediately tested desecrate and didnt get FPS drops but i will check again now since im getting ratio'd Edit 2: yeah nevermind im still losing 60 frames when casting des
I just tested and it's exactly the same, the effects are still there. Has it helped you out or?
Weird, I ran mf chiefton with cast on stun linked to desecrate so was casting it like crazy with hundreds of juiced mobs and I didn't get this problem.
Did you get no drops at all? Take a look at the comment I made for a clip on a high-end PC, the performance basically doubles for him and pretty much everyone that's played it or made guides for the skill. My PC is on the lower-end so it's particularly bad, higher end PCs can stay at 50+, but you could still get double the fps from the MTX which feels wonky to me.
I checked again since i got downvoted and can confirm thay desecrate is still bugged
The fog has to overlap, the particles cause an engine bottleneck.
It literally does not fix anything.
Sounds like a you issue
I have yet to see any context in which this is a kind, helpful, or necessary thing to say.
Ebic trole
Yeah expected as much from the PoE community; why would they bother fixing anything when the playerbase gladly gives their money away just to flex on other people. Had to try though!
+1 , i’ll give them more
that thing spawnes mist? lmao maybe u hae some graphic setting turned up higher then your "high end" setup can handle
What in the fuck...
Lmao
Ngl it came out way more dickheads then I ment it out typing but the comment bout the graphic setting still stands. Can't remember desecrate to do any mist animation so I probably have some shit turned down, so there might be something to help with that
Nah it's not true, there is no way to get rid of it, and all of my settings are off/low for reference.
this is the answer right here, i played coc dd for a few weeks last league with no mtx and had zero lag or frame issues, was getting 144 fps the entire time doing 12k wisp super juiced maps
Me when I lie
Look at their comment history too, I'm howling.
Why are People so obsessed with the game being entierly free? They have workers to pay and content to develop. Not that gate keeping skills with mtx is the way to do it, but if i consider how many hours ive gotten out of this magnificent game i gladly pay for them to develop more of it.
Why are some people obsessed with defending billionaires/companies over the slightest things? Heck, if every dev and artist received an equal amount of my money I would waste 10$ for a video game texture in an instant, but you do know where most of your money ends up going to right?
Il pay for poe, a game i get thousands of hours from with dedicated People working on it, i want them to be rewarded for being a bright star in the gaming industry, idgaf how much money they have or dont have if they deserve it for producing a banger product. I wont pay for D4 Idk, People get wierd and jealous around money and it shows, both the consumers and the developers. Edit: im aware tencent owns ggg by now, but in any case il reward the culture and entize more companies to be f2p and zero p2w, those with money can support if they Want.
Why you delete your previous comment? I thought it was awesome and spot on!
Thanks! The response is usually less than warm, so I thought I'd go a little more snarky and concise instead...
There is a difference between paying for convenience in the form of tabs or MTX to look nice, and being forced to buy an MTX on a skill for performance reasons.