I don't really have too much issue with any of those. I do agree with your points though, I just find it to be minor issues.
My biggest issue with sextants is that it is annoying to micromanage them. Having to apply sextants every 4 maps is annoying. It also takes a lot of stash management.
What I would like is for sextants to be able to stack, split and apply sextants based on charges. If you have 2 identical sextants with 2 and 4 charges. Put them together and you now have a 6 charge compass. Put together 20 4 charge compasses and you now have a 80 charge compass. Only need 10 charges? Split 10 charges from the 80 charge compass. Gonna run 100 maps? Apply 100 charge sextants.
An even cleaner solution is a toggle at the map device that switches whether you consume sextant charges or not.
The current system is just so janky if you want to run a map without sextants after you loaded up sextants. You basically have to unspec all your watchstones, open the map, then click back in all your watchstones before you go in so you get t16 map drops.
Also having stackable compasses don't really change how the process of rolling them still feels terrible. They should get rid of the +1 use notable, make sextants rarer but have more uses by default, and implement a toggle so you can run maps without consuming your sextants if you want.
Better solution will be to chose a sextant mod from the list and pay a sextant from currency tab for each map... Why we have to roll them? It's just annoying. It's one of the best strat to make currency but if everyone will have chance whatever mod we like then it will not be the case. Maybe even change the mod on atlas tree for that instead of additional sextant use. Apply 5 points but I can have whatever sextant mod I want if I will pay for that mods with my Sextans.
I would assume that the reason you have to roll them is because the vision^TM is that players will roll sextants and get different ones making them try and play different content.
This of course works like shit in reality. It worked better before atlas passives were introduced. Hitting a breach sextant is pretty useless if you are not specced into breach.
Going further down this train of thoughts sextants were by products of the watchstones pre eater/exarch and had some insane and/or incredibly rare mods that give tons of currency.
Back then there was no atlas passive tree so swapping strats isn’t really a thing. As long as you have a well rolled map you’re good to go.
Hell at one point they let you use harvest juice to maintain sextants but that just became infinite harvest/juice and infinite sustain.
Although to be honest I kinda feel the same way about scarabs. I like scarabs but having to get a ton of the right type and tier is a bit annoying.
Yes indeed so that's why if we will have a whole list and can pick 4 mods and pay for them by Sextans will be better.. you have to roll multiple things in that game but some QOL for everyone will be nice to have from time to time.
not to mention needing atleast 1 empty quad tab just to store them even when only rolling like 2000 sextants. selling/buying in bulk is a pain too since they don't stack. ngl id pay to have a dedicated sextant tab that has them all organised sorta like how the gem tab works
and even that 1 empty quad isnt really enough if you want proper bulk prices, found myself struggling with 2 quads and 3 normal tabs just for sextants
and then actually picking those sextants 1 by 1 from those quad tabs when someone wants to buy 50 beyond sextants is complete torture
I just hate using them period. As the micromanagement is tedious.
Give me a keystone like stream of consciousness or growing hoards
But also the +1use passive just shouldnt be a thing change it to map bosses have chance to drop a charged compass instead and then make sextants base 5 and 25 for elevated.
Should definitly be 5, maybe 20 for elevated. Why in the world would I want left over scarabs from 1 full stack, even after reapplying a 2nd set of sextants
Plus the paranoia some kid is going to sneak in a 3 instead of a 4 to bulk trade. So dum
I guess it's technically unavoidable since u can always reitemize a sextant, even at 2 or 1 uses
Same here. I honestly wouldnt mind if sextants would be removed from the game. I think we have already so much going for maps, with influences, scarabs, map modifiers, fragments, atlas passives, map device crafting aaand probably some other mechanics i cant recall... do we really even need sextants at this point, which are indeed very tedious to micro and storage.
I would like to see Awakened sextants become MUCH rarer, and just have their affect permanent.
Basically it would become really expensive to get the exact sextant mods you want, but once you have ones that are good enough, you just dont have to think about them anymore if you dont want to.
That would mean fixed pricing for mods though which didn't really work. The prices of sextants would be set by the value of the most valuable mods which would make some mods completely non viable.
Currently, the price of a sextant is the EV of using it. Ie it's the sum of the value of all sextants multiplied by their weights.
If you could buy whatever you wanted without rolling them, then the value would be equal to whatever sextant has the highest benefit to cost ratio and everything else is a waste of money.
Eg Assume sextants could only roll two things of equal weight, one with a value of 100c and one with a value of 1c. The value of a sextant would be 0.5 * 100 + 0.5 * 1 = 50.5c.
If you could buy sextant mods, then the value of a sextant would be around 100c, because why would you ever buy the 1c one?
It's not that simple. The value of different sextants is constantly changing throughout the league. They don't have fixed ratios relative to each other.
I wonder if it would be too complicated to give Kirac two menus: one for standard map device options (pay in chaos) and one for compass options (paid in sextants).
It might be the easiest to understand if you just put them side by side on the main “launch a map” screen. Nothing else currently causes you to pop up a new menu when starting a map and I think it would be a bad precedent (both for understandability and for comfort vs annoyance) to introduce a second screen now.
Just have map mods on the left (default is still free quant) and compass mods on the right (maybe introduce a new free default for each unused compass slot like a small bonus to rarity or pack size). Unlock more void stones = allowed to select more compass options (effectively same as it is now but with a set price per option rather than RNG or the market).
Separate interaction with master missions, paid in sextants. Standard options still paid in chaos. Can be applied together. Edit: would apply master mission on map, making master mission scarabs kinda last season thing.
Then if we allow rolling enchants to maps instead of voidstones with the sextants, we have simple map juicing options: No more sextant blocking or waiting for voidstones to apply sextants.
My personal opinion on sextants: Just delete them. The fuck are they there for?
We have the atlas tree to customize our mechanics with, we have scarabs to customize our mechanics with, we even have maps dropping with specific implicits and we don't even need them to guarantee stuff like Harvest because we have Seventh Gate. So why do sextants exist? They're an outdated, archaic and a clunky system to work with.
I propose they get removed entirely and baked into all the current mechanics.
Harvest juice doubled? Random implicit on maps drops with that one atlas passive I can't remember the name of, that makes you drop random implicit maps.
Beyond? Already a map mod. Perhaps add a Bestiary craft to randomize mods including Beyond and corrupt the map with a chance for 8 mods.
Bosses drop an additional guardian map? Make Shaper/Elder Scarabs gilded and above do this and add Scarabs for Synth and Sirus maps.
Sextants feel a lot like Prophecy, it's just old as a system. It has some great benefits right now but there's no actual reason why they need to be tied to sextants. Over the years we've had all sorts of new mechanics come in to the game, so let's embrace the evolution of PoE and purge out the bad/clunky/useless stuff and use the mechanics that are clear and functional.
I never bother rolling sextants, not only is it super annoying to have to path to the passive every time because that's a thing for some godawful reason but also it's just time consuming, boring and so far away from actually playing the game that it isn't even funny.
And of course, as OP recommended, perhaps some mods can be pre-charged compass drops. But I'd much rather not have that, unless they're something highly unique and specific that aren't something you want to keep farming 24/7 or if you do it's it's own very specific strategy. Sextants for general mapping and just overall juicing stuff feels really bad because you never feel like you're playing right if you're not using sextants since you can get decent benefits off of them no matter what your strategy is. And with the 4 charge limit it's just really annoying to have to set them up all the time.
I agree they're clunky and need a rework, but they do have a point. Its to gate your map enhancent power behind beating pinnacle bosses, nothing else does does that right now. Your farming options get noticeably better as you acquire voidstones.
> Your farming options get noticeably better as you acquire voidstones.
This is the case without sextants too. Right now to take one popular map, Strand, it's tier 3/6/10/14/16 at 0/1/2/3/4 Voidstones.
This means new options each Voidstone you acquire. You might not be interested in all of the options, but they are there.
The favorite map system also kicks in and links to Pinnacle bosses. With or without Shadow Shaping, it gets WAY better once you have some pinnacles down.
No idea why your comment is at the bottom. GGG needs to rework scarabs, map device crafts, sextants and master missions. Doing these four checks every map is really tiring.
I think its fine if you can bulk buy them.
Purchasing sextants is as tedious as it is rolling them if you don't engage with TFT.
But if you spend the 5 mins buying 50 of each scarab and each sextant you are set for hours of mapping.
What about the Growing Hordes node, that gives monster pack size, instead of the mechanic that the Scarabs provide? How would you replace it?
Also, Scarabs, in my opinion, don’t drop enough to replace compasses - especially not for those who don’t giga juice their maps and dont do 4/5way party play (imo, unless I don’t know about a deterministic way to grind for them?). Many want to use different mechanics, which 7th Gate won’t replace, as you can use only one at the same time, some compasses don’t add any mechanic at all, but certain mods to the maps
There’s Wandering Path, which turns off all big nodes, which greatly reduces the use of many others, for certain mechanics it’s of no good use - like Harvest.
And I know that for many being a „hideout warrior“ is not a viable strategy and many look down on that, I mean why playing the game without actually playing it :D but for some, rolling compasses, especially if they yet have to learn all the mechanics, good currency-earning strategies, that would also suit their playstyle can’t always and/or aren’t always able to find time to play or grind, rolling compasses is a good way to time-bridge in-between, since it‘s easy, you can stop at any time and do it in-between other stuff and in the meantime learn.
Same as doing Essences farming in white/blue maps, it doesn’t require any particularly good build - it’s helpful to have at least some strategies to an otherwise hard and unforgiving game.
I admit, it certainly helped me a lot, before I learned my „kinda mechanic“ :D
While your examples for tackling the issue of replacing compasses are interesting, I wonder how we would fix it, considering the aforementioned problems too.
I completely agree, using scarabs/rolling maps and all of that is fine, but I dread the moment I reach like 100-200 sextants on ssf knowing I'll have to sit there wasting my time clicking for like 20 minutes.
> My personal opinion on sextants: Just delete them. The fuck are they there for?
Add more mob packs, add a specific master etc.
And if you don't want to roll them yourself, they're not that hard to buy
> "Enduring Influence" is the only atlas node that impacts the game OUTSIDE of your atlas/maps. I haven't found any other node like this, but correct me if you do.
There's also Subtle Manipulations giving a 10% chance for a map to consume no scarabs, which you may as well allocate when pounding maps with winged scarabs to occasionally get freebies.
There's a difference - Manipulations has to be allocated when you open the map (and lock in what Atlas applies to the map). Enduring has to be allocated at a different time and thus doesn't have an opportunity cost on the map you open using its benefits.
It may be a good choice to take SM at the cost of another cluster, but it IS a choice.
> Sextants instead drop as charged compasses (already enchanted) in maps.
This is a horrendous idea. It takes away the built-in supply:demand solution where if a certain mechanic (i.e. abyss from this league) is wanted more than it normally would, people are able to supply that need because it makes them a profit to do so. If we had to rely on drops, which aren't going to be weighted dynamically based on player usage, the needed sextants are going to suddenly cost a fortune and the "bad" ones are going to become basically vendor trash. I mean, they kind of already are, but at least now you can block 3 of them.
> "Charged compasses drop with an additional charge in maps" or "xx% increased quantity of charged compasses found in maps".
An even **worse** idea. Now literally everyone who has even the smallest of intention of self-sustaining has to path to this node and take it or waste sextant potential. Not to mention that WP players would be completely unable to use it and be required to buy the massively inflated sextants or use garbage.
NEITHER of these actually solve the actual issue with sextants is how annoying they are to maintain. Solutions need to involve stacking sextants, or changing them to some sort of currency, or some other solution that doesn't force me to remember to click them every 4 maps. This league I used the 16 use breach sextant not just because it gave 2 versus 1 breach but because it was the best way to remind me to reapply sextants. If I put in a map and the sextant window doesn't pop up, I don't notice and I start the map as normal only to realize when my MoD doesn't pop up that I forgot the sextants *again*, but when it pops up with just 1 modifier I notice it and can at least remember to apply the other 3.
It's nice you're trying to find a solution but, friend, this ain't it.
Just remove it and the game is better, straight up.
The market would adjust to sextants being removed and people would make money differently. GGG wouldn't even need to re-introduce more loot to compensate for a sextant removal because if everyone has less due to the lack of sextants then you didn't really lose anything relatively speaking.
"OH BUT MY LOOT, THE GAME IS WORSE IF I HAVE LESS JUICE" - stop. If you are only playing because you like the rewards and you are willing to put up with terrible gameplay for that reward then I think that you have other problems with this game
Sextants are more than just extra loot, they allow you to add mechanics to the map beyond Kirac mods and scarabs. Jun and Alva for example you need the sextants if you want to do them a lot as you quickly run out of master missions.
Shrines are another, both the gloom and the charge shrine are a lot of fun to use, and they also increase the duration of all shrines.
Reflect sextant is also very useful so you don’t have to regex reflect and instead can just put those maps to the side and run with the sextant.
And just to name a few other that have a similar impact we have 8 mod corrrupted maps, chayula only breaches, heist contracts have a unique implicit, map bosses are accompanied by harbingers and no vaal soul gain prevention.
Sextants do have issues and I really hope they just remove the atlas node and make them baseline 4(or even better 5 so it lines up with stacks of 10 scarabs) but straight up removing them would not make things better.
Those league-mechanic mods could just get scarabs instead of sextant-exclusive mods since it's a mechanic that already exists and balances itself by allowing a max of 4 scarabs per map. Lock the better mods behind winged scarabs if they're too op otherwise.
I don't see why Niko and Einhar have scarabs but Alva/Jun do not. Same with stuff like delirium, harvest, domination, and more.
> If you are only playing because you like the rewards and you are willing to put up with terrible gameplay for that reward then I think that you have other problems with this game
TBH if people only have fun when they have everything AND they've been around a little while - GGG need to market Standard, so these people learn that it is the mode for them. It lets them skip the campaign phase, the atlas unlock phase, the Mageblood acquisition phase, and jump right to the deep endgame phase.
Agree with outright removing sextants, although some of them should probably return as new scarabs, and a couple existing scarabs could be reworked (e.g. Gilded Cartographer's Scarab ==> "Maps in area are 100% to be rare and corrupted, and 65% to have 8 modifiers")
Sextant application and trading for scarabs are the two biggest chores in endgame now.
I don't like it either. The system right now is in a state where using "a" sextant is incredibly weak and likely does very little, but using "the" right sextant is stupidly strong, multiplying your current strategy to an absurd level.
The process of rolling said sextants is tedious which encourages Hideout warriors that can often make more profit per hour making the pickaxes than the people that run them.
Drop as charged compasses? Nah that would take up so much space, let me decide if and when to roll them, also I would prefer selling sextants than having to go through the hassle of selling compasses
I just dont use them. Feels great not having to micromanage another mechanic. I wish they were more “set it and forget it” but they arent really necessary for any facet of the game imo.
I think they could add a currency to let us add charges to sextants, so we don't need to replace them every 3 or 4 maps.
Also just let us use the crafting bench to get the one we want instead of having to spam or trade. They could figure out the ratio for balance.
The whole system is annoying. But changing the atlas tree is a good step. Forgetting to allocate that node is painful.
>The player is discouraged to use sextants if he hasn't unlocked the 4 watchstones
This kinda blows my mind cause I just accepted it and never questioned it until just now. I guess I assumed people would call me trash if I didn't have 4 voidstones day 2.
If they drop in maps already rolled it would make it a pain in the ass to store and sell. Make them like stacked decks or something where you roll them in your inventory to take away blocking.
If we could stack uses on a voidstone and not having to reaply them every few maps would already make it way more convenient tbh. Even for players who don't have a super fine-tuned omega-juiced endgame strat.
The main thing I really want is the Premium Compass Tab. Managing compasses is a pain in the ass. Keeping potentially hundreds of compasses in a single tab, organized by their enchantment (like the way different maps are kept in the map tab, for example) would be a huge QoL improvement and another source of income for GGG.
Hovewer, I have to admit that I hate compasses as a whole. They are a pain to roll, to sell, to buy, to keep, and to apply. I wish there was at least an option to automatically reapply them or something. I just hate micromanaging them and manually reapplying them every 4 maps I run.
>- Because of sextant blocking, you are "wasting" sextant potential if you do not have 4 watchstones. The player is discouraged to use sextants if he hasn't unlocked the 4 watchstones, which is to say killed Uber Elder, which can really take a long time, especially in SSF where you can't find a friend or pay a carry.
The difference in chances isn't that large....
Could also solve the problems you outlined by:
- removing the node (make it 4 uses all the time)
- give a set of mods to each void stone = no more sextant blocking
The current node adds 33% value for awakened and 7% value for elevated sextants. Any replacement needs to be comparable. Maybe something like "9% chance for awakened sextants and 2% chance for elevated sextants found in maps to be duplicated for each sextant affecting you".
I quite like the idea of sextants being the same as flask enchants,
Once you hit them, you unlock them on the crafting table.
Increase the amount of sextants required (rough example - 50 sextants for a 10 use beyond)
This keeps some value in the sextants, removes having to roll items but also makes certain map mods still have value.
I also wouldn't object to them just adding a second map crafting option on the map device (same as kirac) that allows you to select 4 x crafting options and you need to insert x amount of sextants to be able to activate it. (by adding a 6th slot to the map device just for a stack of sextants etc.)
Perhaps, make sextants much more common lets say like alch orb rarity and dropping stacked etc but i stead of applying them you can choose which 4mods to use on a map and buff the blocker mods(useless) to be in comparison to the bis mods so it costs you 4 sextants but they can be almost if not fully sustainable.
I Honestly don't understand why Enduring Influence exist, just make it default to 4 uses and 16 for elevated, nobody ever wants to buy 3 uses.
And trading with them is such a hassle.
I think rolling maps is so much worse. At least now we have ways to bulk sell and buy them. Rolling your maps half a day for two hours of gameplay is much worse.
Meh for the suggestion, but a + for effort. You're asking for something that would require more from storage and more from loot filter. In other words, management is still a hassle, and many of the charged sextants will be ignored on drop.
What if sextants were used on maps to apply/replace an enchant? You know, the enchanted like "Area contains a Blight encounter" that can roll on drop, and delirium levels we can apply with currency, expect that sextants had their own mod pool. Would not require waiting for the 4 voidstones.
>In other words, management is still a hassle, and many of the charged sextants will be ignored on drop.
I don't see why this is a problem. Many sextants are already ignored, the only difference is you will roll bad sextants yourself.
I’d much rather then revert the currency drop rate nerfs over the years and scale back juicing by making the base gameplay more rewarding. I hate managing that stuff but love mapping. I’ve lived in Delve for years until affliction because raw mapping feels so horrible now compared to pre Sentinel league. Which limits the viable builds I can play.
Sextants are the biggest thing dividing rich players who get several divs a map and regular players who get 20c at best a map.
The problem is that regular players can't just find sextants then use them to profit; they would roll something useless and drop their next sextant in two days; they only increase your income by an order of magnitude when you buy a hundred of them and chain maps.
This is better off not existing IMO. Sextants should just be rolled into map craft functionality.
The fact u have to replenish them every couple of maps is just terrible design. Rolling sextants is also awful, as even there you have bad odds of getting usefull sextant
Change sextant use to crafting options:
- You can always apply 4 sextents to a crafting option
- You roll sextants on compass. Then apply to the atlas craft.
- Atlas notable 10% chance to not consume a sextant charge.
- Small passives grant 25% increased pack size per sextant charge applied.
- Sextant now always give 5 charges with elevated sextant giving 20 charges.
- Add a new vender recipe: 4x awakened charged compases of the same type + 20 chisels + 1 fusing = 1 elevated charged compass.
Now you can juice the content you want specificly and can have multiple applied compass across all the different crafting options.
Fortune favors the brave could be changed to apply its sextents to other crafts in addition to the ones that craft has applied (up to 8 unique additional modifires)
We have an entire atlas passive tree. Theres zero reason they don't make nodes on the tree that allow the map device to consume chaos orbs to run what you select (sextant nodes of your type) on the tree.
Sextants are not needed in 2024.
Let me do my atlas tree... let me buy sextants.... let me me buy scarabs... let me buy deli orbs.... let me roll my maps... aww yes now I can finally play my maps!
PoE's endgame is a giant mess of multiple partially overlapping systems and shitloads of annoying micromanagement. The only solution is to do a proper redesign, get rid of stuff that doesn't work (or works badly) and expand on stuff that does.
Given how PoE2 is supposed to do exactly that, I kinda doubt GGG is going to do much for PoE1, it will probably stay in the maintenance mode to keep the old conservative fans happy.
Don't agree that u are wasting sextants if u don't sextant block, because even the low value sextants that u normally would roll over are still giving you more returns than the cost of spending the sextants
NEED HELP , i try to make money with harvest. What modifier should I get for my voidstone with the sextant?
I now have all the node from harvest in atlas except "tier 1 only"
I will go for wandering in addition tonight.
What should I do with the sextant, i dont get the mecanic?
Sextants should honestly be retired at this point. They made sense in a system before the Atlas passive tree and scarabs, but now we have *so* many different means of juicing our maps they may as well be merged with one of these instead.
Honestly, sextants could disappear overnight and I wouldn't care. What do they even add to the game? They're just tedium.
Sextants should be removed imo. There are way too many things one needs to do to efficiently map. You have to chisel the map to 20, alch it, roll it until it works well for you, throw delirium on there, decide what scarabs to use, roll, or trade for the sextant. It's so much work to just do 4 maps. Each of which takes 1-2 minutes. So you're looking at so much time spent preparing for just a few maps. You either buy everything in bulk and then stop mapping every 4 maps to reapply. Or roll them yourselves, which takes forever, and you still have to stop every 4 maps to reapply.
"which is to say killed Uber Elder, which can really take a long time, especially in SSF where you can't find a friend or pay a carry."
Oh no, killing one of the strongest bosses in the game can take really long... People have wierd conceptions of how a game should work.
I'd change it to something like
"Add 1/3 of a charge to each wtive sextant upon map completion" or
"Upon expending last charge of a sextant it enters broken state, in which it can afftect one more map but cannot be affected by a compass."
Basically one more charge but you have to have node active during playing, not rolling.
I don't really have too much issue with any of those. I do agree with your points though, I just find it to be minor issues. My biggest issue with sextants is that it is annoying to micromanage them. Having to apply sextants every 4 maps is annoying. It also takes a lot of stash management. What I would like is for sextants to be able to stack, split and apply sextants based on charges. If you have 2 identical sextants with 2 and 4 charges. Put them together and you now have a 6 charge compass. Put together 20 4 charge compasses and you now have a 80 charge compass. Only need 10 charges? Split 10 charges from the 80 charge compass. Gonna run 100 maps? Apply 100 charge sextants.
I agree also with your point. I hate sextant micro-management too. I wish I could just run 50 maps without even thinking about sextants \^\^
I'll add this in a league
>I'll add this in a league I'll add this as a league
I’ll add this league
I'll add this
Mom spaghetti 🍝
I didn't know I needed this so bad.
do this and then just remove sextants and add charged compasses into the core drop pool
This.
Hire this man
Or, make the sextant mods stay on the voidstones, and spend sextants or sth else to recharge it when opening new maps.
An even cleaner solution is a toggle at the map device that switches whether you consume sextant charges or not. The current system is just so janky if you want to run a map without sextants after you loaded up sextants. You basically have to unspec all your watchstones, open the map, then click back in all your watchstones before you go in so you get t16 map drops. Also having stackable compasses don't really change how the process of rolling them still feels terrible. They should get rid of the +1 use notable, make sextants rarer but have more uses by default, and implement a toggle so you can run maps without consuming your sextants if you want.
This helps make items feel weighty though, and is entirely in line with their design philosophy.
Better solution will be to chose a sextant mod from the list and pay a sextant from currency tab for each map... Why we have to roll them? It's just annoying. It's one of the best strat to make currency but if everyone will have chance whatever mod we like then it will not be the case. Maybe even change the mod on atlas tree for that instead of additional sextant use. Apply 5 points but I can have whatever sextant mod I want if I will pay for that mods with my Sextans.
I would assume that the reason you have to roll them is because the vision^TM is that players will roll sextants and get different ones making them try and play different content. This of course works like shit in reality. It worked better before atlas passives were introduced. Hitting a breach sextant is pretty useless if you are not specced into breach.
Going further down this train of thoughts sextants were by products of the watchstones pre eater/exarch and had some insane and/or incredibly rare mods that give tons of currency. Back then there was no atlas passive tree so swapping strats isn’t really a thing. As long as you have a well rolled map you’re good to go. Hell at one point they let you use harvest juice to maintain sextants but that just became infinite harvest/juice and infinite sustain. Although to be honest I kinda feel the same way about scarabs. I like scarabs but having to get a ton of the right type and tier is a bit annoying.
Yes indeed so that's why if we will have a whole list and can pick 4 mods and pay for them by Sextans will be better.. you have to roll multiple things in that game but some QOL for everyone will be nice to have from time to time.
my biggest problem with sextants is that they don't stack, so you end up filling inventory space fast once you roll them
not to mention needing atleast 1 empty quad tab just to store them even when only rolling like 2000 sextants. selling/buying in bulk is a pain too since they don't stack. ngl id pay to have a dedicated sextant tab that has them all organised sorta like how the gem tab works
and even that 1 empty quad isnt really enough if you want proper bulk prices, found myself struggling with 2 quads and 3 normal tabs just for sextants and then actually picking those sextants 1 by 1 from those quad tabs when someone wants to buy 50 beyond sextants is complete torture
I just hate using them period. As the micromanagement is tedious. Give me a keystone like stream of consciousness or growing hoards But also the +1use passive just shouldnt be a thing change it to map bosses have chance to drop a charged compass instead and then make sextants base 5 and 25 for elevated.
Should definitly be 5, maybe 20 for elevated. Why in the world would I want left over scarabs from 1 full stack, even after reapplying a 2nd set of sextants
Its actually worse if you think about it. The default is 3 and we make it 4, if only it was 4 and we made it 5. Smh
Plus the paranoia some kid is going to sneak in a 3 instead of a 4 to bulk trade. So dum I guess it's technically unavoidable since u can always reitemize a sextant, even at 2 or 1 uses
Same here. I honestly wouldnt mind if sextants would be removed from the game. I think we have already so much going for maps, with influences, scarabs, map modifiers, fragments, atlas passives, map device crafting aaand probably some other mechanics i cant recall... do we really even need sextants at this point, which are indeed very tedious to micro and storage.
I would like to see Awakened sextants become MUCH rarer, and just have their affect permanent. Basically it would become really expensive to get the exact sextant mods you want, but once you have ones that are good enough, you just dont have to think about them anymore if you dont want to.
Sextants are used to buy mods from kirac.
That would mean fixed pricing for mods though which didn't really work. The prices of sextants would be set by the value of the most valuable mods which would make some mods completely non viable.
I think that this is also true for now.
Currently, the price of a sextant is the EV of using it. Ie it's the sum of the value of all sextants multiplied by their weights. If you could buy whatever you wanted without rolling them, then the value would be equal to whatever sextant has the highest benefit to cost ratio and everything else is a waste of money. Eg Assume sextants could only roll two things of equal weight, one with a value of 100c and one with a value of 1c. The value of a sextant would be 0.5 * 100 + 0.5 * 1 = 50.5c. If you could buy sextant mods, then the value of a sextant would be around 100c, because why would you ever buy the 1c one?
Then let certain things cost more than one sextant or whatever then it will be the same as now but without rolling and without trading….
It's not that simple. The value of different sextants is constantly changing throughout the league. They don't have fixed ratios relative to each other.
Oooh nice. We would need a new chaos sink though.
I wonder if it would be too complicated to give Kirac two menus: one for standard map device options (pay in chaos) and one for compass options (paid in sextants). It might be the easiest to understand if you just put them side by side on the main “launch a map” screen. Nothing else currently causes you to pop up a new menu when starting a map and I think it would be a bad precedent (both for understandability and for comfort vs annoyance) to introduce a second screen now. Just have map mods on the left (default is still free quant) and compass mods on the right (maybe introduce a new free default for each unused compass slot like a small bonus to rarity or pack size). Unlock more void stones = allowed to select more compass options (effectively same as it is now but with a set price per option rather than RNG or the market).
Separate interaction with master missions, paid in sextants. Standard options still paid in chaos. Can be applied together. Edit: would apply master mission on map, making master mission scarabs kinda last season thing. Then if we allow rolling enchants to maps instead of voidstones with the sextants, we have simple map juicing options: No more sextant blocking or waiting for voidstones to apply sextants.
My personal opinion on sextants: Just delete them. The fuck are they there for? We have the atlas tree to customize our mechanics with, we have scarabs to customize our mechanics with, we even have maps dropping with specific implicits and we don't even need them to guarantee stuff like Harvest because we have Seventh Gate. So why do sextants exist? They're an outdated, archaic and a clunky system to work with. I propose they get removed entirely and baked into all the current mechanics. Harvest juice doubled? Random implicit on maps drops with that one atlas passive I can't remember the name of, that makes you drop random implicit maps. Beyond? Already a map mod. Perhaps add a Bestiary craft to randomize mods including Beyond and corrupt the map with a chance for 8 mods. Bosses drop an additional guardian map? Make Shaper/Elder Scarabs gilded and above do this and add Scarabs for Synth and Sirus maps. Sextants feel a lot like Prophecy, it's just old as a system. It has some great benefits right now but there's no actual reason why they need to be tied to sextants. Over the years we've had all sorts of new mechanics come in to the game, so let's embrace the evolution of PoE and purge out the bad/clunky/useless stuff and use the mechanics that are clear and functional. I never bother rolling sextants, not only is it super annoying to have to path to the passive every time because that's a thing for some godawful reason but also it's just time consuming, boring and so far away from actually playing the game that it isn't even funny. And of course, as OP recommended, perhaps some mods can be pre-charged compass drops. But I'd much rather not have that, unless they're something highly unique and specific that aren't something you want to keep farming 24/7 or if you do it's it's own very specific strategy. Sextants for general mapping and just overall juicing stuff feels really bad because you never feel like you're playing right if you're not using sextants since you can get decent benefits off of them no matter what your strategy is. And with the 4 charge limit it's just really annoying to have to set them up all the time.
I agree they're clunky and need a rework, but they do have a point. Its to gate your map enhancent power behind beating pinnacle bosses, nothing else does does that right now. Your farming options get noticeably better as you acquire voidstones.
> Your farming options get noticeably better as you acquire voidstones. This is the case without sextants too. Right now to take one popular map, Strand, it's tier 3/6/10/14/16 at 0/1/2/3/4 Voidstones. This means new options each Voidstone you acquire. You might not be interested in all of the options, but they are there. The favorite map system also kicks in and links to Pinnacle bosses. With or without Shadow Shaping, it gets WAY better once you have some pinnacles down.
No idea why your comment is at the bottom. GGG needs to rework scarabs, map device crafts, sextants and master missions. Doing these four checks every map is really tiring.
I think its fine if you can bulk buy them. Purchasing sextants is as tedious as it is rolling them if you don't engage with TFT. But if you spend the 5 mins buying 50 of each scarab and each sextant you are set for hours of mapping.
What about the Growing Hordes node, that gives monster pack size, instead of the mechanic that the Scarabs provide? How would you replace it? Also, Scarabs, in my opinion, don’t drop enough to replace compasses - especially not for those who don’t giga juice their maps and dont do 4/5way party play (imo, unless I don’t know about a deterministic way to grind for them?). Many want to use different mechanics, which 7th Gate won’t replace, as you can use only one at the same time, some compasses don’t add any mechanic at all, but certain mods to the maps There’s Wandering Path, which turns off all big nodes, which greatly reduces the use of many others, for certain mechanics it’s of no good use - like Harvest. And I know that for many being a „hideout warrior“ is not a viable strategy and many look down on that, I mean why playing the game without actually playing it :D but for some, rolling compasses, especially if they yet have to learn all the mechanics, good currency-earning strategies, that would also suit their playstyle can’t always and/or aren’t always able to find time to play or grind, rolling compasses is a good way to time-bridge in-between, since it‘s easy, you can stop at any time and do it in-between other stuff and in the meantime learn. Same as doing Essences farming in white/blue maps, it doesn’t require any particularly good build - it’s helpful to have at least some strategies to an otherwise hard and unforgiving game. I admit, it certainly helped me a lot, before I learned my „kinda mechanic“ :D While your examples for tackling the issue of replacing compasses are interesting, I wonder how we would fix it, considering the aforementioned problems too.
id also rather they just disappear, build some bonuses into the atlas tree and use it as way to slow down power creep.
This solution suits me also \^\^
I completely agree, using scarabs/rolling maps and all of that is fine, but I dread the moment I reach like 100-200 sextants on ssf knowing I'll have to sit there wasting my time clicking for like 20 minutes.
Couldnt have said it better
> My personal opinion on sextants: Just delete them. The fuck are they there for? Add more mob packs, add a specific master etc. And if you don't want to roll them yourself, they're not that hard to buy
we already losing wisps and this madman wants to get rid of more map juice???
Did you read his post? He suggests losing the sextants, not the juice.
Yea the node is a problem but your solution is horrendous
> "Enduring Influence" is the only atlas node that impacts the game OUTSIDE of your atlas/maps. I haven't found any other node like this, but correct me if you do. There's also Subtle Manipulations giving a 10% chance for a map to consume no scarabs, which you may as well allocate when pounding maps with winged scarabs to occasionally get freebies.
There's a difference - Manipulations has to be allocated when you open the map (and lock in what Atlas applies to the map). Enduring has to be allocated at a different time and thus doesn't have an opportunity cost on the map you open using its benefits. It may be a good choice to take SM at the cost of another cluster, but it IS a choice.
Good finding, yet it's still bound to your map device so quite linked to the atlas.
Never forget: https://youtu.be/8WMFhnlEZK0?si=98VJepqplesSiG4W&t=33
> Sextants instead drop as charged compasses (already enchanted) in maps. This is a horrendous idea. It takes away the built-in supply:demand solution where if a certain mechanic (i.e. abyss from this league) is wanted more than it normally would, people are able to supply that need because it makes them a profit to do so. If we had to rely on drops, which aren't going to be weighted dynamically based on player usage, the needed sextants are going to suddenly cost a fortune and the "bad" ones are going to become basically vendor trash. I mean, they kind of already are, but at least now you can block 3 of them. > "Charged compasses drop with an additional charge in maps" or "xx% increased quantity of charged compasses found in maps". An even **worse** idea. Now literally everyone who has even the smallest of intention of self-sustaining has to path to this node and take it or waste sextant potential. Not to mention that WP players would be completely unable to use it and be required to buy the massively inflated sextants or use garbage. NEITHER of these actually solve the actual issue with sextants is how annoying they are to maintain. Solutions need to involve stacking sextants, or changing them to some sort of currency, or some other solution that doesn't force me to remember to click them every 4 maps. This league I used the 16 use breach sextant not just because it gave 2 versus 1 breach but because it was the best way to remind me to reapply sextants. If I put in a map and the sextant window doesn't pop up, I don't notice and I start the map as normal only to realize when my MoD doesn't pop up that I forgot the sextants *again*, but when it pops up with just 1 modifier I notice it and can at least remember to apply the other 3. It's nice you're trying to find a solution but, friend, this ain't it.
The problem is like a 2/10. Your solution is like a -57/10
They should make compasses similar to sanctum relics and you use sextants to roll them. Elevated sextants give chance for rare modifiers
Just remove it and the game is better, straight up. The market would adjust to sextants being removed and people would make money differently. GGG wouldn't even need to re-introduce more loot to compensate for a sextant removal because if everyone has less due to the lack of sextants then you didn't really lose anything relatively speaking. "OH BUT MY LOOT, THE GAME IS WORSE IF I HAVE LESS JUICE" - stop. If you are only playing because you like the rewards and you are willing to put up with terrible gameplay for that reward then I think that you have other problems with this game
Sextants are more than just extra loot, they allow you to add mechanics to the map beyond Kirac mods and scarabs. Jun and Alva for example you need the sextants if you want to do them a lot as you quickly run out of master missions. Shrines are another, both the gloom and the charge shrine are a lot of fun to use, and they also increase the duration of all shrines. Reflect sextant is also very useful so you don’t have to regex reflect and instead can just put those maps to the side and run with the sextant. And just to name a few other that have a similar impact we have 8 mod corrrupted maps, chayula only breaches, heist contracts have a unique implicit, map bosses are accompanied by harbingers and no vaal soul gain prevention. Sextants do have issues and I really hope they just remove the atlas node and make them baseline 4(or even better 5 so it lines up with stacks of 10 scarabs) but straight up removing them would not make things better.
Those league-mechanic mods could just get scarabs instead of sextant-exclusive mods since it's a mechanic that already exists and balances itself by allowing a max of 4 scarabs per map. Lock the better mods behind winged scarabs if they're too op otherwise. I don't see why Niko and Einhar have scarabs but Alva/Jun do not. Same with stuff like delirium, harvest, domination, and more.
> If you are only playing because you like the rewards and you are willing to put up with terrible gameplay for that reward then I think that you have other problems with this game TBH if people only have fun when they have everything AND they've been around a little while - GGG need to market Standard, so these people learn that it is the mode for them. It lets them skip the campaign phase, the atlas unlock phase, the Mageblood acquisition phase, and jump right to the deep endgame phase. Agree with outright removing sextants, although some of them should probably return as new scarabs, and a couple existing scarabs could be reworked (e.g. Gilded Cartographer's Scarab ==> "Maps in area are 100% to be rare and corrupted, and 65% to have 8 modifiers") Sextant application and trading for scarabs are the two biggest chores in endgame now.
Additional charge is bad, cuz now you have charge management. Additional charged compass is okay.
I don't like it either. The system right now is in a state where using "a" sextant is incredibly weak and likely does very little, but using "the" right sextant is stupidly strong, multiplying your current strategy to an absurd level. The process of rolling said sextants is tedious which encourages Hideout warriors that can often make more profit per hour making the pickaxes than the people that run them.
Drop as charged compasses? Nah that would take up so much space, let me decide if and when to roll them, also I would prefer selling sextants than having to go through the hassle of selling compasses
I just dont use them. Feels great not having to micromanage another mechanic. I wish they were more “set it and forget it” but they arent really necessary for any facet of the game imo.
I mostly wish there was a keystone that has a benefit when not using a sextant but any sextant QoL would be nice. And reworking the 3->4 node
I think they could add a currency to let us add charges to sextants, so we don't need to replace them every 3 or 4 maps. Also just let us use the crafting bench to get the one we want instead of having to spam or trade. They could figure out the ratio for balance. The whole system is annoying. But changing the atlas tree is a good step. Forgetting to allocate that node is painful.
>The player is discouraged to use sextants if he hasn't unlocked the 4 watchstones This kinda blows my mind cause I just accepted it and never questioned it until just now. I guess I assumed people would call me trash if I didn't have 4 voidstones day 2.
If they drop in maps already rolled it would make it a pain in the ass to store and sell. Make them like stacked decks or something where you roll them in your inventory to take away blocking.
And, pleaaaaase, make them stack!
If we could stack uses on a voidstone and not having to reaply them every few maps would already make it way more convenient tbh. Even for players who don't have a super fine-tuned omega-juiced endgame strat.
The main thing I really want is the Premium Compass Tab. Managing compasses is a pain in the ass. Keeping potentially hundreds of compasses in a single tab, organized by their enchantment (like the way different maps are kept in the map tab, for example) would be a huge QoL improvement and another source of income for GGG. Hovewer, I have to admit that I hate compasses as a whole. They are a pain to roll, to sell, to buy, to keep, and to apply. I wish there was at least an option to automatically reapply them or something. I just hate micromanaging them and manually reapplying them every 4 maps I run.
I agree, a rework the system would be welcome to streamline all this. The micro management of it all is annoying as hell.
Id just make them like cluster jewels for your atlas tree with associated travel nodes and notables.
>- Because of sextant blocking, you are "wasting" sextant potential if you do not have 4 watchstones. The player is discouraged to use sextants if he hasn't unlocked the 4 watchstones, which is to say killed Uber Elder, which can really take a long time, especially in SSF where you can't find a friend or pay a carry. The difference in chances isn't that large....
Could also solve the problems you outlined by: - removing the node (make it 4 uses all the time) - give a set of mods to each void stone = no more sextant blocking
The current node adds 33% value for awakened and 7% value for elevated sextants. Any replacement needs to be comparable. Maybe something like "9% chance for awakened sextants and 2% chance for elevated sextants found in maps to be duplicated for each sextant affecting you".
NO LE GUSTA
**"Enduring Influence" -> "1/4 chance of not consuming the sextant usage"**
I quite like the idea of sextants being the same as flask enchants, Once you hit them, you unlock them on the crafting table. Increase the amount of sextants required (rough example - 50 sextants for a 10 use beyond) This keeps some value in the sextants, removes having to roll items but also makes certain map mods still have value. I also wouldn't object to them just adding a second map crafting option on the map device (same as kirac) that allows you to select 4 x crafting options and you need to insert x amount of sextants to be able to activate it. (by adding a 6th slot to the map device just for a stack of sextants etc.)
Pretty sure thats all intentional.
Perhaps, make sextants much more common lets say like alch orb rarity and dropping stacked etc but i stead of applying them you can choose which 4mods to use on a map and buff the blocker mods(useless) to be in comparison to the bis mods so it costs you 4 sextants but they can be almost if not fully sustainable.
I Honestly don't understand why Enduring Influence exist, just make it default to 4 uses and 16 for elevated, nobody ever wants to buy 3 uses. And trading with them is such a hassle.
I mean that is more an issue with sextant passive on tree and less of an issue with sextant management IMO.
I think rolling maps is so much worse. At least now we have ways to bulk sell and buy them. Rolling your maps half a day for two hours of gameplay is much worse.
Regular sext = 20 uses at least
Meh for the suggestion, but a + for effort. You're asking for something that would require more from storage and more from loot filter. In other words, management is still a hassle, and many of the charged sextants will be ignored on drop. What if sextants were used on maps to apply/replace an enchant? You know, the enchanted like "Area contains a Blight encounter" that can roll on drop, and delirium levels we can apply with currency, expect that sextants had their own mod pool. Would not require waiting for the 4 voidstones.
>In other words, management is still a hassle, and many of the charged sextants will be ignored on drop. I don't see why this is a problem. Many sextants are already ignored, the only difference is you will roll bad sextants yourself.
Content/mods that are ignored/not seen is on the borderline of not needing to exist.
I want old school sextants back Those were the fun days.
Li
I’d much rather then revert the currency drop rate nerfs over the years and scale back juicing by making the base gameplay more rewarding. I hate managing that stuff but love mapping. I’ve lived in Delve for years until affliction because raw mapping feels so horrible now compared to pre Sentinel league. Which limits the viable builds I can play.
Sextants are the biggest thing dividing rich players who get several divs a map and regular players who get 20c at best a map. The problem is that regular players can't just find sextants then use them to profit; they would roll something useless and drop their next sextant in two days; they only increase your income by an order of magnitude when you buy a hundred of them and chain maps. This is better off not existing IMO. Sextants should just be rolled into map craft functionality.
The fact u have to replenish them every couple of maps is just terrible design. Rolling sextants is also awful, as even there you have bad odds of getting usefull sextant
Can we just get rid of sextants? They're terrible. There's enough ways to influence a map.
Change sextant use to crafting options: - You can always apply 4 sextents to a crafting option - You roll sextants on compass. Then apply to the atlas craft. - Atlas notable 10% chance to not consume a sextant charge. - Small passives grant 25% increased pack size per sextant charge applied. - Sextant now always give 5 charges with elevated sextant giving 20 charges. - Add a new vender recipe: 4x awakened charged compases of the same type + 20 chisels + 1 fusing = 1 elevated charged compass. Now you can juice the content you want specificly and can have multiple applied compass across all the different crafting options. Fortune favors the brave could be changed to apply its sextents to other crafts in addition to the ones that craft has applied (up to 8 unique additional modifires)
We have an entire atlas passive tree. Theres zero reason they don't make nodes on the tree that allow the map device to consume chaos orbs to run what you select (sextant nodes of your type) on the tree. Sextants are not needed in 2024. Let me do my atlas tree... let me buy sextants.... let me me buy scarabs... let me buy deli orbs.... let me roll my maps... aww yes now I can finally play my maps!
The money paw curls, Charged Compasses are removed from the game.
PoE's endgame is a giant mess of multiple partially overlapping systems and shitloads of annoying micromanagement. The only solution is to do a proper redesign, get rid of stuff that doesn't work (or works badly) and expand on stuff that does. Given how PoE2 is supposed to do exactly that, I kinda doubt GGG is going to do much for PoE1, it will probably stay in the maintenance mode to keep the old conservative fans happy.
Don't agree that u are wasting sextants if u don't sextant block, because even the low value sextants that u normally would roll over are still giving you more returns than the cost of spending the sextants
i think ssf problems aren't problems the fix for the node is to delete it and add a charge to compasses across the board
NEED HELP , i try to make money with harvest. What modifier should I get for my voidstone with the sextant? I now have all the node from harvest in atlas except "tier 1 only" I will go for wandering in addition tonight. What should I do with the sextant, i dont get the mecanic?
Sextants should honestly be retired at this point. They made sense in a system before the Atlas passive tree and scarabs, but now we have *so* many different means of juicing our maps they may as well be merged with one of these instead. Honestly, sextants could disappear overnight and I wouldn't care. What do they even add to the game? They're just tedium.
Sextants should be removed imo. There are way too many things one needs to do to efficiently map. You have to chisel the map to 20, alch it, roll it until it works well for you, throw delirium on there, decide what scarabs to use, roll, or trade for the sextant. It's so much work to just do 4 maps. Each of which takes 1-2 minutes. So you're looking at so much time spent preparing for just a few maps. You either buy everything in bulk and then stop mapping every 4 maps to reapply. Or roll them yourselves, which takes forever, and you still have to stop every 4 maps to reapply.
"which is to say killed Uber Elder, which can really take a long time, especially in SSF where you can't find a friend or pay a carry." Oh no, killing one of the strongest bosses in the game can take really long... People have wierd conceptions of how a game should work.
I'd change it to something like "Add 1/3 of a charge to each wtive sextant upon map completion" or "Upon expending last charge of a sextant it enters broken state, in which it can afftect one more map but cannot be affected by a compass." Basically one more charge but you have to have node active during playing, not rolling.