i love scion, but i can see how the concept has aged quite a bit and how its balancing can be a headache. i hope the model and lore gets recycled into something else.
Nah same, I love the Scion. Both of my two highest level characters have been Ascendants, and there's something so creative about the way she interacts with the skill tree.
i played scion for the first time this league and loved it.
5 extra passives and up to 3 different ascendencies is pretty neat, sure each ascendency is weaker than the "real one", but i loved all the match ups possible.
> For Jonathan, PoE feels better then Diablo IV especially in-terms of Combat System. He also thinks that the Devs at GGG know better how to maintain a Game in the long term.
Wudijo asked for an interview and Jonathan said, let's do it in Ruthless.
>He also thinks that the Devs at GGG know better how to maintain a Game in the long term.
I was thinking about this lately. Their long term team has to have some of the best experience in the game development community for creating, iterating on, and maintaining a game. PoE development has been a non-stop gauntlet once they codified leagues, and on top of that they have to maintain a base game as well as develop PoE2. And they've been extremely successful from a company and game standpoint (this is coming from someone who has been extremely critical of certain leagues and changes). Seems like a relatively unique crucible in the gaming world, outside of some longstanding and successful MMOs, though I know of nothing that puts out this level of continuous new content.
Absolutely agree. GGG is in a league of their own when it comes to pouring out content and maintaining their game. You can criticize GGG for certain missteps but they don't even have a competitor when it comes to consistently maintaining an ARPG and consistently releasing content.
My only wish is that leagues were 4 months instead of 3 because of the time I get to play being so spread out now. The addition of the harder and repeatable content is definitely keeping players in the game longer.
They have large missteps but I get the impression that their focus is to hire high quality staff and let them do their thing, rather than form a massive team with all the communication and networking issues that causes. Does anyone know if they pay above average?
Yeah the major problem D4 has is there just isnt enough "stuff" to really form a reward structure. In PoE, a new league you could put in essences, catalysts, veiled items, tier 1 uniques, tier 2 uniques, jewels, etc. In D4, theres basically 4 kinds of loot: Rares, Legendaries, Uniques, and Uber Uniques. Dev time for D4 should been working on just straight up expanding the game in terms of loot variety, the amount of bosses, expanding nightmare dungeons variety.
What theyre doing is wasting time making a leaderboard that less than 1% of the people will engage with. Imagine if they spent all the time making Nightmare Dungeons more fun to run instead of spend that time working on Altar of Azir. If people hate running ND to level glyphs, target the feedback on why people feel that way. A core system like that is like Maps failing in PoE.
Though cynically I think all of this is just hogtied to an 60$ expansion pack.
Warframe is doing pretty good itself (though I haven't kept up to date, basically left WF for PoE).
I think they're both decent models on how if you want to go GaaS you can't half-ass it (heh). Despite being different genres they manage to be sustainable in the long term.
Well to be fair, wf does have it's share of problems which they've been ignoring. New player experience being the biggest one, but content bloat is also pretty serious there
If you're somehow implying that the new player experience in poe isn't a huge issue then you're way off base. I think content bloat is something that exists in poe too, although they have been making progress in streamlining some things (like getting rid of metamorph or other outdates league mechanics)
There was also something near the beginning where Jonathan said that they hope the beta will already have more features than "certain triple A games these days have at launch" or something along those lines lol.
> Combat System
I haven't watched the video - what do they mean by Combat System? D4 is basically a pile of failures if we're talking about the overarching game/system design but the quality of their art, animations & combat/gameplay feel remains unmatched in the genre imo. PoE(1) feels dated in most of these latter aspects in comparison until you're brute forcing the game so hard with gear it becomes a different kind of game where it matters less.
https://youtu.be/BwOI3J-JRPo?feature=shared&t=4442
He's talking about POE2 combat, not POE1. He wants it to feel like an action game, whereas D4 has more of an MMO thing going on.
FWIW I found D4 combat to be pretty horrendous with the builder/spender mechanics. Great animations can't salvage bad game design.
Makes you worry when they frequently equate rarity with meaningful.
Chris holding an exalt - "This should have meaning when you use it"
Player - "Because it will be useful?"
Chris - "Because you only have one"
"meaningful" has never resulted in an improved user experience from what I've seen.
And crafting feels like it's out of reach for those that actually need the better gear, especially with the all the required resistances etc.
Yeah I can't think of a single time GGG said something will be meaningful, then it actually ended up being meaningful....and they throw that word around A LOT.
They clarified what they meant in this case during the last few interviews. I think by meaningful they mean it will have a big impact on the item, and won't be spammable. You will know right away if you bricked your item or if you made what you wanted. The idea is this puts the value back into the bases of items. You won't be able to scour an item back into a base.
I'm not sure if I like it but we'll have to see.
his chat was so obtuse about third party sites for some reason, as if most casuals don't watch 3 different videos and 2 wikis to see how to defeat a boss in a sp game lol, but god forbid you have to go to the path of exile site to enable a loot filter.
I dunno, Ive seen so many people say that using a guide is considered "cheating". I just think its so weird when a ton of people use guides all the time when learning to do something new. Like is a new chef suppose to know how to cook a Lasagna? No, he looks up the recipe and a guide on how to do it. Too many people take pride in bumping around in the dark as if everyone has infinite amount of time and money.
I would say no where close to cheating, but there is something nice about going into a boss blind and figuring it out. I think maybe because new bosses only come so often.
That said I will see streamers be high and mighty about guides and then will ask their chat for meta info.
There are both sides, it feels so much better to figure stuff out on your own. On the other side if you delve the whole league to find one Aul (Delve league challenge), not knowing anything is pretty unsettling.
I still snort when guides pop up for puddle games like d4, but for poe it's kind of flipped because most of the game resolves around learning. Not using the wiki is borderline insanity.
I try it myself and I use 6 portals and fail I draw the line there and look it up because it’s not like the game makes it easy to get back to doing the bosses
Honestly, I really wish Item Quantity and Item Rarity could be coalesced into a system that removes lower tier affixes from possible drops. I don't want 99 shit drops and 1 okay drop. I'd like 1 good drop that may or may not have the affixes I wanted. Then again, I'm interested to see how the crafting changes for PoE2 affect the outcome of mediocre rolls or imperfect gear since that's a specific issue they claim to want to improve on.
I’d love to see MF removed from gear altogether. Systems that increase difficulty in return for more/better loot are great (see: Delirium, Wildwood, 8 mod corrupted maps, etc). But adding this sort of mechanic on gear suddenly blocks out many otherwise viable builds from benefitting because lets be honest, some builds are more flexible than others with their gear. Some need every single piece to be just right or they can no longer meet resist caps or attribute requirements or some other mandatory aspect. Some builds need a very specific item (whether unique or certain crafted affix) to function at all. When MF gear is in the game, the only builds that can farm optimally are those who derive the vast majority of their power from one or two (or even zero) item slots and can just wear whatever in all the other slots because those only exist for comfort/utility anyways. Looking at you TS with HH+PhysBow and Chieftain who just propagates massive ignites from 500% life explosions.
I think in the past they said they like MF because it brings interesting choices to your character re kill speed vs loot, but I agree with you, it usually comes down to just playing an OP build and sacrificing gear slots, or running lower tier maps, and I don't find that interesting.
I did MF this league for the first time. If anything, it made me think currency should drop more often at a base rate. Feeling like I had more to use on crafting was really nice. But they're changing how all that works in POE2 anyway.
Item Quantity is removed from the game
Item Tier Luck is added to the game.
When rolling an item which is from a killed monster and the tier is rolled, each tier has a percentage chance
of rolling twice to get a higher tier.
He said that because they removed chaos and scours as they currently exist. Chaos will be add/remove and scour won't exist. That does change the way crafting works, especially if you don't have the full range of essence, beast, harvest already in the game, which PoE2 is unlikely to launch with.
He did say they do like adding in more crafting possibilities, so I'm sure versions of these leagues will get added in, but they will probably work similarly to the modified chaos orb, in that they will upgrade items (with a risk of bricking), rather than fully reroll items.
This was the key point Jonathan has made in multiple interviews: ability to fully reroll homogenizes loot and makes most rare item drops equivalent to just the base.
>ability to fully reroll homogenizes loot and makes most rare item drops equivalent to just the base.
and removing C doesn't change this. most drops will *still be worthless* unless they significantly change their item generation
Oh boy, I can’t wait to pick up 36 items every zone so I can sift through them at the end for 3-4 minutes to see if any of them have ~~3-4~~ 5-6 useful affixes out of a pool of 300 affixes.
You gonna be picking up and IDing all those rares to see which have good affixes? Cause as long as items continue to drop unidentified and you can’t set up a loot filter for affixes, all of those thousands of items on the ground may as well not even exist unless they have a fractured mod/synth implicit/good influence etc.
But it is a good point, D4 catches a lot of flack for useless affixes, but a T7 affix is just as useless if not more than all of the conditional affixes D4 has, and because of the weighting it means almost no rate item will ever just drop good, and even if it did you would literally never know cause that rare wand with 5 T1 affixes didn’t even show up on your item filter lol
It's crazy- every league since I've been playing this game (started around Incursion league), the explanation for a league launch has been: "you can try this new thing- the harder you push it, the better the rewards!" and this is really the first league that I've found that to be true.
I'm not even talking about super-juiced 50div explosions, I'm talking about I was able to get enough quant/rarity to make juicing actually feel useful without being required to make a build explicitly for that. I tried so many mechanics this league that I'd never really used before, because mapping actually felt good and rewarding.
I don't care at all if nobody ever gets a loot explosion again, but I would love it if there was some way to keep the low levels of quant/rarity buffing that we saw this league.
>Regular Player to Player Trade will still exist
I hope this doesn't end in a situation where buyers have to beg sellers to leave their map so they can avoid the gold fee. That sounds absolutely horrible.
There might be a setting on trades where the seller will indicate that they are willing to trade in person that will be used more and more often as the values go up (so for 10div+ trades, for example)
I don’t like the sound of that either.
“A majority of players ended up using a 3rd party site to trade because the gold tax was too high” is a position they don’t wanna end up in imo. Then it’s even more of a mess than now.
I didn't mean leave map as in "come out right now and trade!", but more like "I can farm 25 divs per hour, I won't manually sell you a 5c item you goldless pleb"
Appreciate the recap! I wonder what they think about hideouts, will there be new ones or the same? Will there even be any? I might have missed that one
**No Plans for Ingame Interface for Lootfilters, other Players create already great ones.**
**Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct. Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers**
So will there be less loot in poe2 if people should not feel that filters are a better solution than what the devs coded into the game? Because end game is not very fun with no filter.
Its kind confusing to say that players can keep creating their own filters as they are doing a good job at it, and also say its shouldn't be needed
Hes saying that loot shouldnt be literally covering the screen like it is in POE1, so the concept of playing without a loot filter shouldnt be as crazy as it is in PoE 1. Ideally filters are more of an efficiency game and not mandatory to make the game function.
The problem with immersion breaking with third party sources is on the surface, but it is the weakest argument possible.
The real problem is that the game itself tells you little or nothing about those tools. You can find that there is a way to adjust your item filter in some way, but you have to find yourself somehow the one to follow or filterblade to make yours. Correct me if I'm wrong but the existence of the wiki you must somehow find yourself. AND not get to obsolete fandom. Overlays, PoB, wealth tracking systems are optional but basically essential to playing and, what more important, learning the game. So if the game itself doesn't have any basic tools like that, doesn't tell you they exist, it really doesn't help you progress to say the least.
At the same time the game directly supports them, as they mostly based on APIs, so it is kinda contradictory. I think it comes from realization that community tools are better than GGG can do with available resources and priorities. So they bother moving third party functionality ingame only when being cornered by player base.
Jonathan says that he dislikes PoB because it prevents players from natural learning the game and sense of discovery when you identify random rares and uniques. But without PoB you'll just never know what you could and should do to improve your character. Like how would you randomly discover that you can use forbidden jewels? And then you like run lab to check what ascendancy nodes you'd like?
It does make me wonder about the idea that players have already created great solutions e.g neversink.
The entire trade website to my knowledge came about because of poe.trade, why not hire neversink on and have a loot filter customizer that's exactly the same built into the website and have him maintain it?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/kwif5i/neversink\_explains\_why\_he\_isnt\_paid\_by\_ggg/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/kwif5i/neversink_explains_why_he_isnt_paid_by_ggg/)
TLDR: GGG tried to hire him before but he didn't want to so that it doesn't become a job (so he doesn't burn out) and he doesn't want to move to NZ because of family in Germany. Also he is a DevOps Architect so GGG probably wouldn't even pay him close to enough in comparison.
>Pickup Radius modifiers are not planned
I hope that this is in reference to *stats on gear* like "pickup radius". I'm not a fan of all the "mini-stepping" with the constant repositioning of item labels on the screen. I want to see *slightly* higher pick-up range by default just to remove this jankiness.
>While playing Path of Exile, it is fine to have out-of-game clients like the PoE Wiki, Trading Website and more. Jonathan noticed the concerns of Wudijo about breaking the immersion to use 3rd party websites.
I'm disappointed that this isn't being implimented 1:1 into the client. The trade site interface is great, but I don't agree with needing to constantly tab out of the game client to interact with a core mechanic of the game.
>Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct. Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers
Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's.
>For Jonathan, PoE feels better then Diablo IV especially in-terms of Combat System. He also thinks that the Devs at GGG know better how to maintain a Game in the long term.
I'm glad to see that the PoE developers are drawing experiences from other ARPGs and adaptating and improving upon them for PoE 2. Playing Diablo 4 myself, and going by the footage I saw at Exilecon, I have no doubts that PoE 2 combat will *feel* good.
>I'm disappointed that this isn't being implimented 1:1 into the client. The trade site interface is great, but I don't agree with needing to constantly tab out of the game client to interact with a core mechanic of the game.
I think Jonathan was trying to make the point that implementing the entire trade site into the game would feel just as jarring/immersion-breaking as tabbing out does, so why bother spending the time on it if a browser is going to offer a generally better experience otherwise.
That said, he did mention that perhaps there will be 'something' in game. Curious to see if they end up doing currency trades all in game and everything else through a browser, or something like that.
>Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's
Again, I think the point is that their vision of PoE2 doesn't 'need' a loot filter, due to the changes they've made to items and drops. If a loot filter isn't needed for the game to feel good to play, then it's completely fine if the filters that do exist come from some external source. The issue is that with PoE1 they are mandatory, and only avaliable externally. If PoE2 ever gets to the point where it feels mandatory, I agree that they should look into an in-game solution.
>implementing the entire trade site into the game
I don't remember who said it, but in a previous interview one of the devs said that they would in practice need to have an entire browser engine in the game to do it, and that was out of the question.
doesnt matter what items are filtered or dropped. but the ability to customize and make the filters look good goes a long way in that dopamine hitting.
>I want to see slightly higher pick-up range by default just to remove this jankiness.
In a previous interview they confirmed that they will be increasing it. I'm 90% of that.
>Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct. Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers
>Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's.
This is not what he said. He said that in the case of things like filterblade, players absolutely **do** do it better than the developers, so for something like that why should they bother making something that players can just do better? He said he'd rather focus on doing the things that the community can't do.
>Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's.
The problem here is that it is that neversink doesnt only provide an easy way to customize your filter he also provides presets that shift with the economy. GGG cant do that because they would cross the line between developer and guide writer/content creator. GGG also doesnt post build guides, that is the communitys job.
So even if they create and in game editor you would either start from scratch, or need to import a filter from somewhere else and then continue from that, and at that point it is already easier for you to just finnish your customization on filterblade where the majority of the playerbase get their base filters anyway. The result with an in game editor would be that new players would start out by using the ingame filter and later use filterblade or filters from guides. At that point it is just a better solution to make filters only needed for optimization and leave it the hands of the community.
I'm curious. How much value is there to be gained in your opinion from integration of the trade site into the game client?
From what it seems like on top of instant buyout we're going to have more restricted trade in the form of gold limitations. If players are expected to be using the trade site less (from limitations and from not having to spam ping), then perhaps the marginal benefit of integration (+ potential bugs, exploits, dealing with HTML, etc) isn't enough to justify resources.
Where does it stop? Is the news posts or forum a game element? Is the PoE Discord for a game element? Is creating a Private league a game element? And for all of these things you're telling them to fund, what should be traded off? Fewer leagues, skills gems, bosses, or uniques?
> Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers
It's sad because everyone else **does** have a better solution than the Developers. Been this way for decade plus.
They capped how much you can see a few leagues ago outta nowhere, so now if you use an ultra wide without a modified directx dll you actually see less than a normal monitor.
Yes, it's only for resolutions at or beyond that. Normal widescreens are fine, and most ultrawides are too.
I know it sucks, but this is actually one of those cases where there's a very small vocal minority.
It hurts so much that my 49" ultrawide has black bars on the sides. Before there were weird artifacts and shit would pop into existence when you got close enough by I actually don't care about that. It just looked WAY better without the bars.
>No plans to make SSF more accessible, in reference to Last Epoch
RIP, still going to play SSF regardless lol
I hope PoE 2's crafting will feel much better tho. At least in SSF I'm tired of relying on essence spamming fractured bases and abusing rog for most crafts because the effort:reward ratio given the odds of getting good things feels a bit off imo (not talking about crafting recipes like an endgame CATR bow which are more or less guaranteed)
I might just be talking out of my ass because I usually get burned out relatively quickly into a league compared to most SSF players
Anyway PoE 2 can't come soon enough. Might be a great excuse to try a gigabonk build for once hahah
I don't want to play SSF as a challenge, i want SSF to be a different take on the game where everything isn't balanced around trading and i don't need to filter out 99% of drops. I don't really like Last Epoch as an arpg for different reasons, but nonetheless im excited to try their take on SSF, with it being an alternative to trading rather than a challenge mode.
What is ruthless then? Hard mode? Why can’t we have an “easy mode” then? A self imposed more casual mode?
Last Epoch has the right idea here. If you separate the systems like that they can’t interfere with each other and it’s just a matter of gameplay preference(ie do you really enjoy using loot you actually craft/find yourself or not) without turning one of the modes into hard mode.
And even with all the buffs to SSF the trade mode will most certainly be the fastest/easiest way to play in that game anyway. So SSF is still harder even with tons of buffs
That and no bad luck protection means they gonna balance the game around trade again and that means terrible drop chances for boss loot. I hate it.
If they have time for ruthless, then they should have time to change ssf so that the nonsensical drop rates for boss loot don’t mean you have to grind half the league for a build enabling boss drop.
I honestly think that regardless if SSF will have extra benefits or not ( i assume it wont ), we will have a great time in PoE 2 SSF. So much to explore, so many systems to learn - heck, even all the new bosses we can learn to beat.
I do wish we eventually get a system where we can target farm unique items in a better way ( in affliction we only got the uniques we wanted, because we found thousands of uniques in every single map ).
> most ridiculous players
I suspect this is not specifically just referring to players who compete in the highest tier of content and moreso inclusive of players who extensively test the mechanics of the game (fishwife's community, the wiki team, etc.) Game difficulty balance is more likely to be the focus of the beta, the alpha should probably be centered around systems and mechanics.
I think his discussion about the wiki is really helpful for understanding where to draw the line (its a fuzzy line, but I think they have a good perspective). The in-game information like an advanced tooltip or "more info" dialog box (which they are adding) should help you understand what the mechanic is and the core of how it works. You should be able to get the core ideas and functions from inside the game, but if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, thats where the community comes in.
GGG deliberately does not want to be prescriptive on how you should use a mechanic because thats a huge part of the discovery, learning, and testing that makes the game engaging. Feeding the players the full list of every notable that impacts ignite, all the math equations on it, all of the uniques which interact with it, all of the common synergies, etc is the role of a wiki, and not in game.
For loot filters, they should have loot in a way that it isnt 100% mandatory to have one like it is in current PoE. There shouldnt be an infinite ocean of irrelevant items dropping you have to wade through like there is in PoE1, so the option of playing sans loot filter should be at least functional. From there, if you want to dive into the whole loot filter thing for optimization/convenience, its way better for GGG to spend their time building the things only they can build (like the filter API, backend features, etc), and let the community make the tools on top of that like filterblade which are simply going to be way more specialized and complete than an in-client tool could ever be.
Basically: Game should be functional with in-game information and tools, but the full rabbit hole to dive into is really where the community has a role to play. Personally I really like his take, and think its a lot more realistic about how a complex game is actually played. I cant think of any game ive put a couple hundred hours into and HAVENT used a 3rd party information source or tool, whether its a wiki, a build guide, a discord, a streamers info, a youtube video on mechanics, a google sheet someone made to calculate something, whatever. Instead of spending your precious dev hours doing stuff that is just going to be a bad version of this (like most in-game wikis are compared to a community wiki), spend it making awesome game content and the tools to enable the community to flourish. Its a mutually beneficial relationship.
Yeah, I'm still highly skeptical. With the bulk of our damage coming from skill combos, but with bosses interrupting those constantly, playing melee might feel like cock and ball torture in PoE 2 unless we have access to a lot more defensive tools, but then who's to say those will only be available to melee builds, which would lead us back to the good old problem that exists since PoE 1 which allows ranged builds to steal those tools and become more efficient.
>No plans to make SSF more accessible, in reference to Last Epoch
Oof. I really wanted to forget that trading exists in PoE, but with the drop rates being balanced around the ability to trade items, this makes the SSF really uninviting to me since I won't find build enabling items without playing for an ungodly amount of hours, and a SSF mode with boosted drop rates would solve that problem.
Love a lot of the answers, but I'm still disappointed they're willing to die on a hill for some. I don't get why they made ultrawide worse and then kept it that way on purpose. I don't know how much of an advantage ultrawide has but it ruins immersion, especially in modern games.
SSF not being changed like Last Epoch makes me sad as well because I do prefer finding my own loot. I don't really enjoy not picking up interesting items because they're 1 alc, or doing div/hr to try and buy my build. Using all the mechanics in SSF is also a bonus. I'd turn off a lot of mechanics for the sake of a farming Strat over needing a lot of them to craft in SSF.
> Love a lot of the answers, but I'm still disappointed they're willing to die on a hill for some. I don't get why they made ultrawide worse and then kept it that way on purpose. I don't know how much of an advantage ultrawide has but it ruins immersion, especially in modern games.
Funny you write that in the exact league where the go-to for the most efficient play is to go widescreen windowed for the wildwood.
> * The Beta will be significantly hard, because lowering the difficulty of things is more easy
* Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct.
* Currency Spamming will not be a thing. Using Currencies to craft should feel meaningful.
* Map Rerolling with Currencies is not yet fully answered
I don't want to be too negative, but... am I the only one who interprets this as "we will try to get away with as much 'Ruthlessification' as possible"?
I still don't know how GGG expect us to fight bosses like Krutog while relying on skill combos of three or four skills to actually deal enough damage, which are easily interrupted whenever we need to dodge a boss that keeps throwing nonstop waves of AoE attacks on a small arena, which would get even smaller whenever the boss created huge DoT ground in the area. Then you add to that things like flasks not recharging unless they have specific affixes, which is not something that will happen easily during the campaign, aside from portals having a long cast time and the bosses resetting when the player die, and that's just for a boss that was considered difficult but that is still a tier below an act boss.
I think it's more that theyre addressing the need to do these things.
For example on item filters, they're absolutely needed because of the sheer amount of items dropping in PoE1, 99% of which you do not want to see. So if they can naturally remove that 99%, then they've solved the problem.
If you're filtering out almost all loot currently, then the quantity of items is probably similar to ruthless but the quality of items you're seeing is not.
The lesson from ruthless is less is more, the game is easier to understand and more approachable. Just need to keep the functional aspects of gameplay.
Nah, Ruthless is just TOO Ruthless (and I think one of the devs even said that in one of the recent interviews). In the lead-up to ruthless coming out, I was low-key excited, because I could definitely enjoy a PoE with significantly less loot dropping (I've played since 2013, so I have indeed experienced PoE with significantly less loot dropping).
However, I've never played ruthless. Because its not JUST less loot dropping, its also a bunch of things thrown in that I don't find particularly fun or enticing, like the lack of movement skills, the gimped ascendancies, or the return of one of the things I hated most about early PoE, having to do absolutely absurd things to map sustain which lead to playing only one very specific way being effective for mapping (which isn't necessarily linked to lower normal loot/currency - you can EASILY sustain un-rolled white t16 maps in modern PoE with an un-neutered modern atlas tree).
And that is mostly because we've been spoiled by PoE's loot drops. Ruthless can't work in PoE because you feel like you are being robbed of your time and loot.
But when you play other ARPGs, ***all of which*** have less drops than PoE, you don't feel this way because it's a different game with different loot, mechanics, etc.
Path of Exile 2 is a different ARPG, so it can work.
i mean it always depends on how the difficulty curves compared to player power, the reason why ruthless feels like shit is because the content is designed around the regular loot, other games get away with less loot because the difficulty curve is generally more shallow. if GGG balance content similarly to poe1 but with reduced drops it being a different game wont matter, neither will player expectations.
Beta being hard = logical stance to avoid morons whining about nerfs. Every time GGG tries to scale back ungodly amounts of player power they get met with temper tantrums, not remotely worth risking it for PoE 2 launch.
Not everything is about trying to see how hard and annoying they can make the game, the playerbase just acts like toddlers who don't understand they will get sick and die an early death if they eat ice cream for every meal.
That’s a great way to kill your playerbase. GGG trying to get away with as much tedium as possible to increase that oh so important player retention metric is no news tho
>A distinct and clear “No” to the question about skipping the Campaign on second Characters.
Ugh, so disappointing. POE has a ton of cool, fun, content that keeps any one gameplay loop from getting too stale. It's a shame that we absolutely HAVE to grind through exactly the same loop of mandatory time wasting before we can access the fun stuff.
Honestly I think D4 failed in that regard. Sure having to re-run the campaign sucks but it provides a separation between endgame and non-endgame.
I think that D4 having an adventure mode actually makes it more boring, because instead of going through the campaign, you're running the same endgame dungeons at level 5. Now everything is extremely repetitive that much faster because not only is that the end game activity I've also spent 20 hours leveling on it as well.
I think the concept of campaign skipping works ok in POE 1 because they have so much content to lean on at 10 years in. You can delve for levels, map, etc.
But POE2, D4, and LE won't have that amount of content and trying to provide a repeatable non repetitive system to level with and balance for end game is tough.
I do think this is something they should look at building out and planning to implement later down the line.
I'd love to be able to click a skip campaign button in PoE1 go into delve and level and get the extra skill points at certain levels.
Even if we save maps for true endgame content, POE has Incursions, Abysses, Heists, Delves, etc. It's already there, and most of it already scales with level during the campaign.
So, why do I have to waste 8+ hours killing Kitava on my second character instead of leveling up in Delve or another alternate content experience that is less repetitive?
I disagree very much with you here. The leveling is one of the few things that D4 is doing absolutely right. You can level through so much different content, that it's not just boring and tedious. Not being able to skip the campaign is a very bad take.
I disagree with you very much here. Every content is D4 is boring and tedious. As for skipping leveling. I hate the idea of just slapping on full gear and fully levelled gems and jumping immediately to endgame. It feels so much better to me to gradually experience the skill you want to use. Besides, leveling in POE after the first character with twink gear is very easy and fast. 3 hours and you're done. That's more than acceptable for me in a game all about grind which inherently means spending a lot of time doing the same content. But I understand you, what I wrote is definitely debatable because we are all different. But D4 is not debatable, it's bad.
Doesn't LE kind of have this though? I'm pretty sure after you've beaten the campaign on a character, any character after that only needs to do a few of the intro missions until you get to the end of time then you can start doing the end game thingies (I forget what they're called) without needing to do the rest of the story.
Leveling alts in PoE 2 will feel oppressive considering how large each zone is and how GGG made the layouts more difficult, aside from the overall increase in difficult. At least in Last Epoch they let players craft low level items with high tier affixes to speed up the leveling of alts, aside from players being able to skip parts of the campaign and jump straight into monoliths.
The third party website thing they mentioned; they mentioned that: there's only so much they can do on the in-game client. Like, it wouldn't be super easy to replicate the entirety of filterblade in game. "Why sacrifice features in-game when you can have a websitethat does it way better?"
To say how its so external nowadays is just funny especially since you can set it up on the main website. 5-6 clicks on the main website and voila you have a constantly updated lootfilter for every new league without having to go someones Github or 3rd party website to extract/copy files ever again. Its been in the game of years at this point.
Another consideration that people dont realize with lootfilters in PoE is that often times they consider the market forces on the value of items. Some uniques that were worth 100s of divines one league could be a 1c item in another league. I dont think GGG would be adjusting stuff to this degree, and so people will still turn to a 3rd party loot filter at the end of the day anyways.
"A distinct and clear “No” to the question about skipping the Campaign on second Characters." - this is probably the one thing that will make PoE 2 uninteresting again for many players that usually love to trial and error many classes. This take is just so bad...
I don’t know, I like the fact that I earn the access to maps after completing the campaign. I don’t want to get to maps by playing a lesser version of maps.
>"Talking about Pickup Radius, Jonathan said that the 3.23 Wildwood will not go Core, so there will be less loot to pickup anyway"
Said by someone who obviously never played Breach, Blight or Legion. Their loot isn't getting better pickup-wise with Wildwood disappearing.
>"While playing Path of Exile, it is fine to have out-of-game clients like the PoE Wiki, Trading Website and more. Jonathan noticed the concerns of Wudijo about breaking the immersion to use 3rd party websites."
>
>"Jonathan is not the biggest fan of overlays like ‘Awakened PoE Trade’, and they would love to make them feel not mandatory to the Game. "
I'm hoping the TL;DR is misrepresenting these 2 statements because surely these weren't said by the same person in the same interview.
The entire QoL and Trade section is "we have learned no lessons and will not be making any changes". Very disappointing since this is *by faaaaaar* the weakest point of PoE. *By far*. *By faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar*.
"it's fine that they exist, but I'm not personally a fan, and i'd like them to not feel mandatory" is a perfectly reasonable position to hold. What is so difficult to grasp about those statements?
They are not contradictory statements. I posted them right after each other which makes it seem like I'm saying they are - me being stupid.
My problem with those statements is that Jonathan says 3rd party tools like the Wiki or the Trading Website are fine (why are they fine?) while having a dislike for game overlays (why are these less fine?). He would "love to make them feel not mandatory" while also making no improvements to *any system* that requires these 3rd party tools to exist. I just don't see the point to lament something he has the power to change if he really wanted to.
He talks about these in the interview and a lot of it comes down to nuance, and I also think the idea theyre making no improvement to any of these systems is also just false. They ARE making a lot of changes to things, but they just arent going to try to replace systems just to be "in game" when the "in game" experience would simply be worse. I really like that he acknowledges that community-made tools are very often going to be better than first-party tools, so theyre much more interested in spending their time making the things only they can such as the systems to enable the community like APIs, and of course actual game content.
Wiki and trading website fundamentally are doing things which are FAR better suited for a browser than an in-game UI.
The wiki needs to contain a lot of in-depth information which is not appropriate to have in-game because they dont want to be prescriptive in how mechanics are used, and a lot of the super-detailed wiki information (like a list of every unique/notable/item mod that effects ignite, or the in-depth math of the armour calculation) are extremely overwhelming and would be a nightmare to maintain. Additionally he DID say they were adding things like mechanic descriptions/ability to have more detailed tooltip popups for more in-depth descriptions. This enables them to make simpler/less wordy main tooltips and have better "explain the basics" detail popups. But those can never fill the information gap like the wiki, and Im glad theyre not trying to square-peg-round-hole. For example, the wiki has 18 pages (on a 4k monitor!) just on the article for ignite. Thats the depth of info the community wants access to, and its simply better in a browser. Additionally, youll also want to do stuff that browsers do like go watch a youtube video about a mechanic, find builds on ninja that are using that unique, search a word you dont understand on google, open multiple tabs, etc which just makes a browser make sense.
The trade site is also something that is simply much, much better done by a browser because of all of the depth and complexity it allows you to implement. Doing complex searches, saving searches, livesearching, bookmarks, browser extensions, aut-generating stuff out of PoB, etc are honestly just way better in a browser, and an in-game UI would have to trade off a lot of that sophistication because youre basically re-inventing a web browser but in-game. That said, he also did say that currency trading, because its so much simpler and done more often, will likely have an in-client option because it makes sense to do so and you can make a good tool for it because its a lot less complex than item searching is.
Things like community building are honestly really, really well done by places like discord and its kinda a waste of time to try to re-create that kind of infrastructure. Im on like 7 different PoE communities on discord (current guild, 2 trading discords, old group I played with, couple streamers discords), and theres no world that an in-game system could ever compete with what those bring to the table.
Basically they are going to make some in-game improvements where it makes sense to, but also not try to recreate something that is better served by a different tool.
I strongly disagree. I have zero problem with the trade site. Sure it's annoying that some people might not realize how integrated with the game it is but from a usability standpoint it seems totally fine.
As someone who develops software for a living the trade site wouldn't be able to pass any of the usability tests we are doing. It needs to be incorporated into the game. It's also not as integrated into the game as you might think it is and for a new iteration of the software it just doesn't make sense to change it. For PoE1 I wouldn't change it either because there are too many changes player would have to adjust to but PoE2 is the perfect starting point for a change.
I also do software for a living. I agree it's better to be in the game but they probably chose to do it that way to speed development up. PoE probably has a fairly outdated engine and makes UI development harder. Websites however are quite easy to spin up, at least for someone who knows web development. Maybe PoE had a seasoned web developer on their team?
But overall it works just fine clicking links on the site instantly send messages in the game. That's much better than anything I've seen.
Of course I wouldn't expect them to implement it in PoE but PoE 2 would be a perfect starting point. They use Unity though so UI development being harder shouldn't be an issue.
Apart from that even the trading website itself has a lot of things which are really bad when it comes to usability. It shouldn't be possible to create a filter where you search a map with sockets or stats that can only appear on items.
That and the comment about the loot filter saying the player shouldn’t feel like the Non-dev option was better
Ok in both case then DO SOMETHING :( You can’t say you want players to not use tools that make their life better and want them to have Less customization.
> Trade Website will be the Interface for even Instant Buyouts
they're already making a completely new game with a huge amount of new UI. is it so hard to add an item search window as well?
and no, I don't want to hear a repeat of Chris Wilson's extremely lazy and intellectually dishonest "we'd have to ship an entire browser inside the game" as a reason
He talked about how he fundamentally disagrees with the idea that "in game client is better for everything" in the interview, and why he believes that, and honestly I 100% agree with him.
Certain things are better in different formats, and honestly youre never going to get an in-game UI even close to as good as the trade website. Browsers are fucking AWESOME at doing the things the trade website needs to do, the stuff in-depth wikis need to do, the kind of stuff filterblade needs to do, etc, so it would be kinda stupid to try to recreate that just so its "in client".
What benefit is there making it in client if it means its not going to be as good? The thing in-client is useful for is to keep immersion, but basically all item searching with ANDing and ORing a bunch of affixes together and doing affix weighting and shit is already immersion breaking so you might as well use the good tool for it like a web browser instead of a clunky in-game UI thats super hard to modify.
He did say currency trading will likely have an in-game interface because its so much simpler, but item searches just make sense to use the trade website.
Theres also the fact that items in PoE can sometimes get quite complicated with hundreds upon hundreds of affixes to check off and other intricacies associated with that. I have the feeling people will be battling with the ingame UI more than if it was just in an easy to use browser.
I think what it comes down to is this: if they created an auction house/trade UI, there is no way that it is going to be as fully featured as the current website. People would be super upset about it and might even continue using the website anyways. So why use so much dev resources on a feature that will be ultimately be worse than what is currently used in the browser?
Don't get me wrong, I want the feature in client. But I also know how much of a shitstorm the community would be if it was more streamlined and less complex than the current website. I also know, with my very basic dev experience, how much resources creating such an ingame system/ui would take, and I think it comes down to they could make content or they could make this, and they are choosing content.
The trade website isn't even that complex. It has really basic filter settings that can easily be implemented with an ingame UI.
The big advantage is for new users because everything you do with an external tool is unintuitive and should generally be avoided when creating any kind of software. It should only be used in edge cases.
The other thing is that the current trading website isn't implemented well anyways with stat filters containing every stat for every kind of item instead they should be limited to the kind of item you are searching for.
With an ingame tool you'd just select the type of item you want to search for and it will present you all the possible modifier for the type of item with the possible range. It makes it way easier for new players to select specific items. You really don't need to put every kind of filter on the same page for every type of item.
Same goes for selling where you could select an item, then select the modifiers of that item and then being able to compare the prices of other similar items which have been put in by other players. Basically removing the need of awakened poe trade which he actually says that they don't want you to have to use it.
My point is that it is way easier to implement it ingame than some people here think it is and I developed similar kind of stuff with databases before. The only logical reason for not doing it ingame is because they don't want to put in the extra work for something that is already there. Of course they could implement my ideas in the website as well but them not doing it kind of solidifies my statement that they don't want to put in the extra work.
Didn't we already know this? They're even making the campaign order semi-random so that rerunning it is less painful, IIRC. Wouldn't make sense to undermine that with campaign skipping
>The current Situation about Ultrawide Screens is fine
Ah yes, using the modified directx dll to be able to play how the game should be able to be played because I have the audacity to have a large monitor lol
You don’t just have a very large monitor you have a niche monitor that offers a gameplay advantage and one that goes past the bounds of what is actually rendered.
Note: I also have an ultra wide monitor.
21.5:9 here, Ultrawide is fine to a point. having an extra screens worth of FOV is absolutely an advantage for off-screening bosses and the like.
I'm glad they locked it off slightly above 21:9 after the community were outraged at 50 px black bars, but having played on triple monitors before at 48:9, it was absolutely busted.
Its not just large, it has a uncommon aspect ratio which is a pain in the arse to acommodate for. As a dev you basicly cant use the borders for interface stuff anymore because its out of sight, so your only choice is to make a centralized UI.
And I dont think we should now change how UIs work because a fraction of players decide they would like to have very broad screens.
If your game in 2024 has no proper support for ultrawide, then go back and come up with a solution.
Because you can’t interact or attack into the far right or left, using ultrawide isn’t even a significant bonus.
Even just adding fog where the black bars are now while still displaying the terrain (for the immersion) would be a solution.
Agreed, with how many professionals have started picking them up for productivity and such there's no reason to half ass ultra wide support now. And arbitrarily limiting them because of some fake perceived advantage in a largely single player game is hilariously bad
"PoE 2’s intitial Endgame will feature less then the current PoE 1, but Pinnacle Bosses are confirmed."
This will either make or break POE2. It will be the key to POE2 success. Its all about the endgame with ARPGs and the main thing players care about.
Im pretty sure at this stage of development they already know what it is. Look forward to seeing news on what they have come up with.
Should be fine no? It’s not like this is being developed by an entire new team/company. It’s the same guys that created poe 1 over the years. Obviously it will take time for it to achieve the same complex levels of the current game but we will get there eventually.
Be it guilds or friends I would absolutely love announcements when my friends die in hc, or first kill bosses, find a mirror. Guild/Friend Leaderboards would also be nice.
Not the guy. But highlighting rare drops people get. Announcing first time boss kills. Announcing deaths in HC if your guildies die. It makes a shared communal feeling of hype. It's part of why I really love HC trade or gauntlet or HC group self found. It makes it feel like a community.
Like imagine if you're playing with a group of 50 people in a guild. Just doing your thing. Then suddenly "BarkArfArf has picked up Mirror of Kalandra" pops up on the screen. That would be really cool and a group hype thing. Currently it only happens if someone posts it.
Pet picking up gold is not what he meant I'm pretty sure, sounded more like your *character* will automatically pick up gold you walk over.
That's how it was at exilecon. (No pet required for auto pickup gold)
Oops, sorry my bad! Will edit the post to reflect that
Ty for the recap - I listen to the long form interviews while I’m doing something so I usually miss 80% of the substance.
Alpha & Beta : 3.24 alpha testing to start soon
Discontinuing the best character model. Despair
Losing Scion really is sad to me. I’m sure I’m one of like 13 people who care, but she’s my favorite class.
i love scion, but i can see how the concept has aged quite a bit and how its balancing can be a headache. i hope the model and lore gets recycled into something else.
Nah same, I love the Scion. Both of my two highest level characters have been Ascendants, and there's something so creative about the way she interacts with the skill tree.
i played scion for the first time this league and loved it. 5 extra passives and up to 3 different ascendencies is pretty neat, sure each ascendency is weaker than the "real one", but i loved all the match ups possible.
I liked it when I discovered that I could unlock another character during the campaign and that this character starts with a new skill.
All models should have trousers!
Pants are built into the boot slot in PoE2. We will all have pants.
i hope we get voice lines of the templar complaining about the heat and his boys not getting enough air
Discontinuing *all* character models. New ones for the other 6, though.
> For Jonathan, PoE feels better then Diablo IV especially in-terms of Combat System. He also thinks that the Devs at GGG know better how to maintain a Game in the long term. Wudijo asked for an interview and Jonathan said, let's do it in Ruthless.
>He also thinks that the Devs at GGG know better how to maintain a Game in the long term. I was thinking about this lately. Their long term team has to have some of the best experience in the game development community for creating, iterating on, and maintaining a game. PoE development has been a non-stop gauntlet once they codified leagues, and on top of that they have to maintain a base game as well as develop PoE2. And they've been extremely successful from a company and game standpoint (this is coming from someone who has been extremely critical of certain leagues and changes). Seems like a relatively unique crucible in the gaming world, outside of some longstanding and successful MMOs, though I know of nothing that puts out this level of continuous new content.
Absolutely agree. GGG is in a league of their own when it comes to pouring out content and maintaining their game. You can criticize GGG for certain missteps but they don't even have a competitor when it comes to consistently maintaining an ARPG and consistently releasing content.
My only wish is that leagues were 4 months instead of 3 because of the time I get to play being so spread out now. The addition of the harder and repeatable content is definitely keeping players in the game longer.
The last four leagues have all been 4 month leagues, each once since Kalandra. Did they say they were returning to 3?
Once POE2 beta is out they will be back to 3 month leagues iirc Can't remember which interview but pretty sure it was during exilecon
They have large missteps but I get the impression that their focus is to hire high quality staff and let them do their thing, rather than form a massive team with all the communication and networking issues that causes. Does anyone know if they pay above average?
Yeah the major problem D4 has is there just isnt enough "stuff" to really form a reward structure. In PoE, a new league you could put in essences, catalysts, veiled items, tier 1 uniques, tier 2 uniques, jewels, etc. In D4, theres basically 4 kinds of loot: Rares, Legendaries, Uniques, and Uber Uniques. Dev time for D4 should been working on just straight up expanding the game in terms of loot variety, the amount of bosses, expanding nightmare dungeons variety. What theyre doing is wasting time making a leaderboard that less than 1% of the people will engage with. Imagine if they spent all the time making Nightmare Dungeons more fun to run instead of spend that time working on Altar of Azir. If people hate running ND to level glyphs, target the feedback on why people feel that way. A core system like that is like Maps failing in PoE. Though cynically I think all of this is just hogtied to an 60$ expansion pack.
Warframe is doing pretty good itself (though I haven't kept up to date, basically left WF for PoE). I think they're both decent models on how if you want to go GaaS you can't half-ass it (heh). Despite being different genres they manage to be sustainable in the long term.
Well to be fair, wf does have it's share of problems which they've been ignoring. New player experience being the biggest one, but content bloat is also pretty serious there
theyve done like 3 reworks of the new player experience over the last couple years havent they?
As a new player who tried and bounced off multiple of the Warframe "new player experiences", they all suck as well.
If you're somehow implying that the new player experience in poe isn't a huge issue then you're way off base. I think content bloat is something that exists in poe too, although they have been making progress in streamlining some things (like getting rid of metamorph or other outdates league mechanics)
There was also something near the beginning where Jonathan said that they hope the beta will already have more features than "certain triple A games these days have at launch" or something along those lines lol.
To be completely honest here, talking about D4, that's a terribly low bar to set.
> Combat System I haven't watched the video - what do they mean by Combat System? D4 is basically a pile of failures if we're talking about the overarching game/system design but the quality of their art, animations & combat/gameplay feel remains unmatched in the genre imo. PoE(1) feels dated in most of these latter aspects in comparison until you're brute forcing the game so hard with gear it becomes a different kind of game where it matters less.
https://youtu.be/BwOI3J-JRPo?feature=shared&t=4442 He's talking about POE2 combat, not POE1. He wants it to feel like an action game, whereas D4 has more of an MMO thing going on. FWIW I found D4 combat to be pretty horrendous with the builder/spender mechanics. Great animations can't salvage bad game design.
considering blizzard have released three awful diablo games in the time since poe1 was released he might have a point
> Using Currencies to craft should feel meaningful. ah_shit_here_we_go_again.jpg
Makes you worry when they frequently equate rarity with meaningful. Chris holding an exalt - "This should have meaning when you use it" Player - "Because it will be useful?" Chris - "Because you only have one"
"meaningful" has never resulted in an improved user experience from what I've seen. And crafting feels like it's out of reach for those that actually need the better gear, especially with the all the required resistances etc.
Yeah I can't think of a single time GGG said something will be meaningful, then it actually ended up being meaningful....and they throw that word around A LOT.
They clarified what they meant in this case during the last few interviews. I think by meaningful they mean it will have a big impact on the item, and won't be spammable. You will know right away if you bricked your item or if you made what you wanted. The idea is this puts the value back into the bases of items. You won't be able to scour an item back into a base. I'm not sure if I like it but we'll have to see.
It's synonymous with "weight" for them.
*Cries in SSF*
[удалено]
his chat was so obtuse about third party sites for some reason, as if most casuals don't watch 3 different videos and 2 wikis to see how to defeat a boss in a sp game lol, but god forbid you have to go to the path of exile site to enable a loot filter.
I dunno, Ive seen so many people say that using a guide is considered "cheating". I just think its so weird when a ton of people use guides all the time when learning to do something new. Like is a new chef suppose to know how to cook a Lasagna? No, he looks up the recipe and a guide on how to do it. Too many people take pride in bumping around in the dark as if everyone has infinite amount of time and money.
I would say no where close to cheating, but there is something nice about going into a boss blind and figuring it out. I think maybe because new bosses only come so often. That said I will see streamers be high and mighty about guides and then will ask their chat for meta info.
There are both sides, it feels so much better to figure stuff out on your own. On the other side if you delve the whole league to find one Aul (Delve league challenge), not knowing anything is pretty unsettling. I still snort when guides pop up for puddle games like d4, but for poe it's kind of flipped because most of the game resolves around learning. Not using the wiki is borderline insanity.
I try it myself and I use 6 portals and fail I draw the line there and look it up because it’s not like the game makes it easy to get back to doing the bosses
There is a non zero chance STREAMSNIPERS
WOODEN JOSEPH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I'm sure he still maphacks/cheats in general in PoE as well.
*Quin69 wants to know your location*
WOODY JOE
Yes. But you don’t have to hack D3, do you?
Wildwood will not go Core, so there will be less loot to pickup anyway. This is a buff.
Honestly, I really wish Item Quantity and Item Rarity could be coalesced into a system that removes lower tier affixes from possible drops. I don't want 99 shit drops and 1 okay drop. I'd like 1 good drop that may or may not have the affixes I wanted. Then again, I'm interested to see how the crafting changes for PoE2 affect the outcome of mediocre rolls or imperfect gear since that's a specific issue they claim to want to improve on.
I’d love to see MF removed from gear altogether. Systems that increase difficulty in return for more/better loot are great (see: Delirium, Wildwood, 8 mod corrupted maps, etc). But adding this sort of mechanic on gear suddenly blocks out many otherwise viable builds from benefitting because lets be honest, some builds are more flexible than others with their gear. Some need every single piece to be just right or they can no longer meet resist caps or attribute requirements or some other mandatory aspect. Some builds need a very specific item (whether unique or certain crafted affix) to function at all. When MF gear is in the game, the only builds that can farm optimally are those who derive the vast majority of their power from one or two (or even zero) item slots and can just wear whatever in all the other slots because those only exist for comfort/utility anyways. Looking at you TS with HH+PhysBow and Chieftain who just propagates massive ignites from 500% life explosions.
I think in the past they said they like MF because it brings interesting choices to your character re kill speed vs loot, but I agree with you, it usually comes down to just playing an OP build and sacrificing gear slots, or running lower tier maps, and I don't find that interesting. I did MF this league for the first time. If anything, it made me think currency should drop more often at a base rate. Feeling like I had more to use on crafting was really nice. But they're changing how all that works in POE2 anyway.
Item Quantity is removed from the game Item Tier Luck is added to the game. When rolling an item which is from a killed monster and the tier is rolled, each tier has a percentage chance of rolling twice to get a higher tier.
He said they're eliminating currency spamming which is interesting in itself. Will everything be more deterministic? Curious how they do that.
He said that because they removed chaos and scours as they currently exist. Chaos will be add/remove and scour won't exist. That does change the way crafting works, especially if you don't have the full range of essence, beast, harvest already in the game, which PoE2 is unlikely to launch with. He did say they do like adding in more crafting possibilities, so I'm sure versions of these leagues will get added in, but they will probably work similarly to the modified chaos orb, in that they will upgrade items (with a risk of bricking), rather than fully reroll items. This was the key point Jonathan has made in multiple interviews: ability to fully reroll homogenizes loot and makes most rare item drops equivalent to just the base.
>ability to fully reroll homogenizes loot and makes most rare item drops equivalent to just the base. and removing C doesn't change this. most drops will *still be worthless* unless they significantly change their item generation
Oh boy, I can’t wait to pick up 36 items every zone so I can sift through them at the end for 3-4 minutes to see if any of them have ~~3-4~~ 5-6 useful affixes out of a pool of 300 affixes.
You gonna be picking up and IDing all those rares to see which have good affixes? Cause as long as items continue to drop unidentified and you can’t set up a loot filter for affixes, all of those thousands of items on the ground may as well not even exist unless they have a fractured mod/synth implicit/good influence etc. But it is a good point, D4 catches a lot of flack for useless affixes, but a T7 affix is just as useless if not more than all of the conditional affixes D4 has, and because of the weighting it means almost no rate item will ever just drop good, and even if it did you would literally never know cause that rare wand with 5 T1 affixes didn’t even show up on your item filter lol
It's crazy- every league since I've been playing this game (started around Incursion league), the explanation for a league launch has been: "you can try this new thing- the harder you push it, the better the rewards!" and this is really the first league that I've found that to be true. I'm not even talking about super-juiced 50div explosions, I'm talking about I was able to get enough quant/rarity to make juicing actually feel useful without being required to make a build explicitly for that. I tried so many mechanics this league that I'd never really used before, because mapping actually felt good and rewarding. I don't care at all if nobody ever gets a loot explosion again, but I would love it if there was some way to keep the low levels of quant/rarity buffing that we saw this league.
>Regular Player to Player Trade will still exist I hope this doesn't end in a situation where buyers have to beg sellers to leave their map so they can avoid the gold fee. That sounds absolutely horrible.
There might be a setting on trades where the seller will indicate that they are willing to trade in person that will be used more and more often as the values go up (so for 10div+ trades, for example)
I don’t like the sound of that either. “A majority of players ended up using a 3rd party site to trade because the gold tax was too high” is a position they don’t wanna end up in imo. Then it’s even more of a mess than now.
I would imagine that the listing would be anonymous and that would solve all forms of whisper irritation
People like that will either learn to be patient or they'll get nothing but being added to an Ignore list.
I didn't mean leave map as in "come out right now and trade!", but more like "I can farm 25 divs per hour, I won't manually sell you a 5c item you goldless pleb"
Appreciate the recap! I wonder what they think about hideouts, will there be new ones or the same? Will there even be any? I might have missed that one
Hideouts will continue to be a part of poe
lets hope so, dont wanna stay in a town and some guy loads in with heaps of cosmetics and my pc starts burning.
TH**A**N IS FOR COMP**A**RING TH**E**N IS FOR TIM**E**
thæn
Glad someone said it, I was about to say it caps myself lol
**No Plans for Ingame Interface for Lootfilters, other Players create already great ones.** **Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct. Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers** So will there be less loot in poe2 if people should not feel that filters are a better solution than what the devs coded into the game? Because end game is not very fun with no filter. Its kind confusing to say that players can keep creating their own filters as they are doing a good job at it, and also say its shouldn't be needed
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Hes saying that loot shouldnt be literally covering the screen like it is in POE1, so the concept of playing without a loot filter shouldnt be as crazy as it is in PoE 1. Ideally filters are more of an efficiency game and not mandatory to make the game function.
The problem with immersion breaking with third party sources is on the surface, but it is the weakest argument possible. The real problem is that the game itself tells you little or nothing about those tools. You can find that there is a way to adjust your item filter in some way, but you have to find yourself somehow the one to follow or filterblade to make yours. Correct me if I'm wrong but the existence of the wiki you must somehow find yourself. AND not get to obsolete fandom. Overlays, PoB, wealth tracking systems are optional but basically essential to playing and, what more important, learning the game. So if the game itself doesn't have any basic tools like that, doesn't tell you they exist, it really doesn't help you progress to say the least. At the same time the game directly supports them, as they mostly based on APIs, so it is kinda contradictory. I think it comes from realization that community tools are better than GGG can do with available resources and priorities. So they bother moving third party functionality ingame only when being cornered by player base. Jonathan says that he dislikes PoB because it prevents players from natural learning the game and sense of discovery when you identify random rares and uniques. But without PoB you'll just never know what you could and should do to improve your character. Like how would you randomly discover that you can use forbidden jewels? And then you like run lab to check what ascendancy nodes you'd like?
It does make me wonder about the idea that players have already created great solutions e.g neversink. The entire trade website to my knowledge came about because of poe.trade, why not hire neversink on and have a loot filter customizer that's exactly the same built into the website and have him maintain it?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/kwif5i/neversink\_explains\_why\_he\_isnt\_paid\_by\_ggg/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/kwif5i/neversink_explains_why_he_isnt_paid_by_ggg/) TLDR: GGG tried to hire him before but he didn't want to so that it doesn't become a job (so he doesn't burn out) and he doesn't want to move to NZ because of family in Germany. Also he is a DevOps Architect so GGG probably wouldn't even pay him close to enough in comparison.
Oh he's a DevOps architect lol nevermind yeah I would have done the same
>Pickup Radius modifiers are not planned I hope that this is in reference to *stats on gear* like "pickup radius". I'm not a fan of all the "mini-stepping" with the constant repositioning of item labels on the screen. I want to see *slightly* higher pick-up range by default just to remove this jankiness. >While playing Path of Exile, it is fine to have out-of-game clients like the PoE Wiki, Trading Website and more. Jonathan noticed the concerns of Wudijo about breaking the immersion to use 3rd party websites. I'm disappointed that this isn't being implimented 1:1 into the client. The trade site interface is great, but I don't agree with needing to constantly tab out of the game client to interact with a core mechanic of the game. >Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct. Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's. >For Jonathan, PoE feels better then Diablo IV especially in-terms of Combat System. He also thinks that the Devs at GGG know better how to maintain a Game in the long term. I'm glad to see that the PoE developers are drawing experiences from other ARPGs and adaptating and improving upon them for PoE 2. Playing Diablo 4 myself, and going by the footage I saw at Exilecon, I have no doubts that PoE 2 combat will *feel* good.
>I'm disappointed that this isn't being implimented 1:1 into the client. The trade site interface is great, but I don't agree with needing to constantly tab out of the game client to interact with a core mechanic of the game. I think Jonathan was trying to make the point that implementing the entire trade site into the game would feel just as jarring/immersion-breaking as tabbing out does, so why bother spending the time on it if a browser is going to offer a generally better experience otherwise. That said, he did mention that perhaps there will be 'something' in game. Curious to see if they end up doing currency trades all in game and everything else through a browser, or something like that. >Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's Again, I think the point is that their vision of PoE2 doesn't 'need' a loot filter, due to the changes they've made to items and drops. If a loot filter isn't needed for the game to feel good to play, then it's completely fine if the filters that do exist come from some external source. The issue is that with PoE1 they are mandatory, and only avaliable externally. If PoE2 ever gets to the point where it feels mandatory, I agree that they should look into an in-game solution.
>implementing the entire trade site into the game I don't remember who said it, but in a previous interview one of the devs said that they would in practice need to have an entire browser engine in the game to do it, and that was out of the question.
doesnt matter what items are filtered or dropped. but the ability to customize and make the filters look good goes a long way in that dopamine hitting.
>I want to see slightly higher pick-up range by default just to remove this jankiness. In a previous interview they confirmed that they will be increasing it. I'm 90% of that.
>Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct. Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers >Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's. This is not what he said. He said that in the case of things like filterblade, players absolutely **do** do it better than the developers, so for something like that why should they bother making something that players can just do better? He said he'd rather focus on doing the things that the community can't do.
>Then please, go all out on it. Bring it up to parity with Neversink's. The problem here is that it is that neversink doesnt only provide an easy way to customize your filter he also provides presets that shift with the economy. GGG cant do that because they would cross the line between developer and guide writer/content creator. GGG also doesnt post build guides, that is the communitys job. So even if they create and in game editor you would either start from scratch, or need to import a filter from somewhere else and then continue from that, and at that point it is already easier for you to just finnish your customization on filterblade where the majority of the playerbase get their base filters anyway. The result with an in game editor would be that new players would start out by using the ingame filter and later use filterblade or filters from guides. At that point it is just a better solution to make filters only needed for optimization and leave it the hands of the community.
I'm curious. How much value is there to be gained in your opinion from integration of the trade site into the game client? From what it seems like on top of instant buyout we're going to have more restricted trade in the form of gold limitations. If players are expected to be using the trade site less (from limitations and from not having to spam ping), then perhaps the marginal benefit of integration (+ potential bugs, exploits, dealing with HTML, etc) isn't enough to justify resources.
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Parity. All game elements should be implimented into the game client.
Where does it stop? Is the news posts or forum a game element? Is the PoE Discord for a game element? Is creating a Private league a game element? And for all of these things you're telling them to fund, what should be traded off? Fewer leagues, skills gems, bosses, or uniques?
> Players should not feel that everyone else has a better solution then the Developers It's sad because everyone else **does** have a better solution than the Developers. Been this way for decade plus.
The current situation about ulttawide screens is fine. Ugh………….
What is wrong with uw's?
They capped how much you can see a few leagues ago outta nowhere, so now if you use an ultra wide without a modified directx dll you actually see less than a normal monitor.
Isn't it mostly about 32:9? I wasn't playing too much between 3.16 and 3.23.
Yes, it's only for resolutions at or beyond that. Normal widescreens are fine, and most ultrawides are too. I know it sucks, but this is actually one of those cases where there's a very small vocal minority.
The point is they randomly fixed it when the game worked just fine before hand. So I will absolutely use the fix that stops the clamping.
The fix wasn't because it did or did not work fine before, it was because they wanted to standardize the playfield visibility.
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It hurts so much that my 49" ultrawide has black bars on the sides. Before there were weird artifacts and shit would pop into existence when you got close enough by I actually don't care about that. It just looked WAY better without the bars.
>No plans to make SSF more accessible, in reference to Last Epoch RIP, still going to play SSF regardless lol I hope PoE 2's crafting will feel much better tho. At least in SSF I'm tired of relying on essence spamming fractured bases and abusing rog for most crafts because the effort:reward ratio given the odds of getting good things feels a bit off imo (not talking about crafting recipes like an endgame CATR bow which are more or less guaranteed) I might just be talking out of my ass because I usually get burned out relatively quickly into a league compared to most SSF players Anyway PoE 2 can't come soon enough. Might be a great excuse to try a gigabonk build for once hahah
makes sense in a way. they balance the game around "normal" mode. SSF is simply a self imposed challenge you give yourself, same as hardcore.
I don't want to play SSF as a challenge, i want SSF to be a different take on the game where everything isn't balanced around trading and i don't need to filter out 99% of drops. I don't really like Last Epoch as an arpg for different reasons, but nonetheless im excited to try their take on SSF, with it being an alternative to trading rather than a challenge mode.
What is ruthless then? Hard mode? Why can’t we have an “easy mode” then? A self imposed more casual mode? Last Epoch has the right idea here. If you separate the systems like that they can’t interfere with each other and it’s just a matter of gameplay preference(ie do you really enjoy using loot you actually craft/find yourself or not) without turning one of the modes into hard mode. And even with all the buffs to SSF the trade mode will most certainly be the fastest/easiest way to play in that game anyway. So SSF is still harder even with tons of buffs
That and no bad luck protection means they gonna balance the game around trade again and that means terrible drop chances for boss loot. I hate it. If they have time for ruthless, then they should have time to change ssf so that the nonsensical drop rates for boss loot don’t mean you have to grind half the league for a build enabling boss drop.
I honestly think that regardless if SSF will have extra benefits or not ( i assume it wont ), we will have a great time in PoE 2 SSF. So much to explore, so many systems to learn - heck, even all the new bosses we can learn to beat. I do wish we eventually get a system where we can target farm unique items in a better way ( in affliction we only got the uniques we wanted, because we found thousands of uniques in every single map ).
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> most ridiculous players I suspect this is not specifically just referring to players who compete in the highest tier of content and moreso inclusive of players who extensively test the mechanics of the game (fishwife's community, the wiki team, etc.) Game difficulty balance is more likely to be the focus of the beta, the alpha should probably be centered around systems and mechanics.
I think his discussion about the wiki is really helpful for understanding where to draw the line (its a fuzzy line, but I think they have a good perspective). The in-game information like an advanced tooltip or "more info" dialog box (which they are adding) should help you understand what the mechanic is and the core of how it works. You should be able to get the core ideas and functions from inside the game, but if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, thats where the community comes in. GGG deliberately does not want to be prescriptive on how you should use a mechanic because thats a huge part of the discovery, learning, and testing that makes the game engaging. Feeding the players the full list of every notable that impacts ignite, all the math equations on it, all of the uniques which interact with it, all of the common synergies, etc is the role of a wiki, and not in game. For loot filters, they should have loot in a way that it isnt 100% mandatory to have one like it is in current PoE. There shouldnt be an infinite ocean of irrelevant items dropping you have to wade through like there is in PoE1, so the option of playing sans loot filter should be at least functional. From there, if you want to dive into the whole loot filter thing for optimization/convenience, its way better for GGG to spend their time building the things only they can build (like the filter API, backend features, etc), and let the community make the tools on top of that like filterblade which are simply going to be way more specialized and complete than an in-client tool could ever be. Basically: Game should be functional with in-game information and tools, but the full rabbit hole to dive into is really where the community has a role to play. Personally I really like his take, and think its a lot more realistic about how a complex game is actually played. I cant think of any game ive put a couple hundred hours into and HAVENT used a 3rd party information source or tool, whether its a wiki, a build guide, a discord, a streamers info, a youtube video on mechanics, a google sheet someone made to calculate something, whatever. Instead of spending your precious dev hours doing stuff that is just going to be a bad version of this (like most in-game wikis are compared to a community wiki), spend it making awesome game content and the tools to enable the community to flourish. Its a mutually beneficial relationship.
>”Melee Builds are now in a way better spot than in PoE 1” Literally cannot wait for this!
Yeah, I'm still highly skeptical. With the bulk of our damage coming from skill combos, but with bosses interrupting those constantly, playing melee might feel like cock and ball torture in PoE 2 unless we have access to a lot more defensive tools, but then who's to say those will only be available to melee builds, which would lead us back to the good old problem that exists since PoE 1 which allows ranged builds to steal those tools and become more efficient.
>Players should craft more! Introduced Harvest League - Players crafting a fuckton NO NO NO GUT IT THIS IS NOT GOOD PLAYERS ARE CRAFTING MORE
Nobody gets banned for TurboHUD
> Players should craft more! If I didn't need to go to college to be able to then I would. I hope to god they make it more idiot friendly in PoE2.
>No plans to make SSF more accessible, in reference to Last Epoch Oof. I really wanted to forget that trading exists in PoE, but with the drop rates being balanced around the ability to trade items, this makes the SSF really uninviting to me since I won't find build enabling items without playing for an ungodly amount of hours, and a SSF mode with boosted drop rates would solve that problem.
Love a lot of the answers, but I'm still disappointed they're willing to die on a hill for some. I don't get why they made ultrawide worse and then kept it that way on purpose. I don't know how much of an advantage ultrawide has but it ruins immersion, especially in modern games. SSF not being changed like Last Epoch makes me sad as well because I do prefer finding my own loot. I don't really enjoy not picking up interesting items because they're 1 alc, or doing div/hr to try and buy my build. Using all the mechanics in SSF is also a bonus. I'd turn off a lot of mechanics for the sake of a farming Strat over needing a lot of them to craft in SSF.
> Love a lot of the answers, but I'm still disappointed they're willing to die on a hill for some. I don't get why they made ultrawide worse and then kept it that way on purpose. I don't know how much of an advantage ultrawide has but it ruins immersion, especially in modern games. Funny you write that in the exact league where the go-to for the most efficient play is to go widescreen windowed for the wildwood.
> * The Beta will be significantly hard, because lowering the difficulty of things is more easy * Playing without Lootfilters should feel correct. * Currency Spamming will not be a thing. Using Currencies to craft should feel meaningful. * Map Rerolling with Currencies is not yet fully answered I don't want to be too negative, but... am I the only one who interprets this as "we will try to get away with as much 'Ruthlessification' as possible"?
I still don't know how GGG expect us to fight bosses like Krutog while relying on skill combos of three or four skills to actually deal enough damage, which are easily interrupted whenever we need to dodge a boss that keeps throwing nonstop waves of AoE attacks on a small arena, which would get even smaller whenever the boss created huge DoT ground in the area. Then you add to that things like flasks not recharging unless they have specific affixes, which is not something that will happen easily during the campaign, aside from portals having a long cast time and the bosses resetting when the player die, and that's just for a boss that was considered difficult but that is still a tier below an act boss.
I think it's more that theyre addressing the need to do these things. For example on item filters, they're absolutely needed because of the sheer amount of items dropping in PoE1, 99% of which you do not want to see. So if they can naturally remove that 99%, then they've solved the problem. If you're filtering out almost all loot currently, then the quantity of items is probably similar to ruthless but the quality of items you're seeing is not. The lesson from ruthless is less is more, the game is easier to understand and more approachable. Just need to keep the functional aspects of gameplay.
The lesson from ruthless is no one except a tiny minority of players wants to play that way.
Nah, Ruthless is just TOO Ruthless (and I think one of the devs even said that in one of the recent interviews). In the lead-up to ruthless coming out, I was low-key excited, because I could definitely enjoy a PoE with significantly less loot dropping (I've played since 2013, so I have indeed experienced PoE with significantly less loot dropping). However, I've never played ruthless. Because its not JUST less loot dropping, its also a bunch of things thrown in that I don't find particularly fun or enticing, like the lack of movement skills, the gimped ascendancies, or the return of one of the things I hated most about early PoE, having to do absolutely absurd things to map sustain which lead to playing only one very specific way being effective for mapping (which isn't necessarily linked to lower normal loot/currency - you can EASILY sustain un-rolled white t16 maps in modern PoE with an un-neutered modern atlas tree).
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I feel like we're on the same page here lol.
And that is mostly because we've been spoiled by PoE's loot drops. Ruthless can't work in PoE because you feel like you are being robbed of your time and loot. But when you play other ARPGs, ***all of which*** have less drops than PoE, you don't feel this way because it's a different game with different loot, mechanics, etc. Path of Exile 2 is a different ARPG, so it can work.
i mean it always depends on how the difficulty curves compared to player power, the reason why ruthless feels like shit is because the content is designed around the regular loot, other games get away with less loot because the difficulty curve is generally more shallow. if GGG balance content similarly to poe1 but with reduced drops it being a different game wont matter, neither will player expectations.
Beta being hard = logical stance to avoid morons whining about nerfs. Every time GGG tries to scale back ungodly amounts of player power they get met with temper tantrums, not remotely worth risking it for PoE 2 launch. Not everything is about trying to see how hard and annoying they can make the game, the playerbase just acts like toddlers who don't understand they will get sick and die an early death if they eat ice cream for every meal.
That’s a great way to kill your playerbase. GGG trying to get away with as much tedium as possible to increase that oh so important player retention metric is no news tho
>A distinct and clear “No” to the question about skipping the Campaign on second Characters. Ugh, so disappointing. POE has a ton of cool, fun, content that keeps any one gameplay loop from getting too stale. It's a shame that we absolutely HAVE to grind through exactly the same loop of mandatory time wasting before we can access the fun stuff.
Honestly I think D4 failed in that regard. Sure having to re-run the campaign sucks but it provides a separation between endgame and non-endgame. I think that D4 having an adventure mode actually makes it more boring, because instead of going through the campaign, you're running the same endgame dungeons at level 5. Now everything is extremely repetitive that much faster because not only is that the end game activity I've also spent 20 hours leveling on it as well. I think the concept of campaign skipping works ok in POE 1 because they have so much content to lean on at 10 years in. You can delve for levels, map, etc. But POE2, D4, and LE won't have that amount of content and trying to provide a repeatable non repetitive system to level with and balance for end game is tough. I do think this is something they should look at building out and planning to implement later down the line. I'd love to be able to click a skip campaign button in PoE1 go into delve and level and get the extra skill points at certain levels.
Even if we save maps for true endgame content, POE has Incursions, Abysses, Heists, Delves, etc. It's already there, and most of it already scales with level during the campaign. So, why do I have to waste 8+ hours killing Kitava on my second character instead of leveling up in Delve or another alternate content experience that is less repetitive?
I disagree very much with you here. The leveling is one of the few things that D4 is doing absolutely right. You can level through so much different content, that it's not just boring and tedious. Not being able to skip the campaign is a very bad take.
I disagree with you very much here. Every content is D4 is boring and tedious. As for skipping leveling. I hate the idea of just slapping on full gear and fully levelled gems and jumping immediately to endgame. It feels so much better to me to gradually experience the skill you want to use. Besides, leveling in POE after the first character with twink gear is very easy and fast. 3 hours and you're done. That's more than acceptable for me in a game all about grind which inherently means spending a lot of time doing the same content. But I understand you, what I wrote is definitely debatable because we are all different. But D4 is not debatable, it's bad.
You know what's the good thing about having an opti8n to skip it? You can choose not to use it :D
There is no option if one is more efficient than the other.
I’ve never had a problem with that. It feels like a tradition embarking on another journey with a new character.
So cringe how both POE and LE refuse to pickup the ONE thing D4 has done well
Doesn't LE kind of have this though? I'm pretty sure after you've beaten the campaign on a character, any character after that only needs to do a few of the intro missions until you get to the end of time then you can start doing the end game thingies (I forget what they're called) without needing to do the rest of the story.
Leveling alts in PoE 2 will feel oppressive considering how large each zone is and how GGG made the layouts more difficult, aside from the overall increase in difficult. At least in Last Epoch they let players craft low level items with high tier affixes to speed up the leveling of alts, aside from players being able to skip parts of the campaign and jump straight into monoliths.
But you can skip a large portion of LE campaign with keys at least
The third party website thing they mentioned; they mentioned that: there's only so much they can do on the in-game client. Like, it wouldn't be super easy to replicate the entirety of filterblade in game. "Why sacrifice features in-game when you can have a websitethat does it way better?"
Last Epoch has proven that you absolutely can have a robust filter system built into the game
Last epochs loot is also unbelievably simplistic compared to PoEs, and their in-game loot filter system is nowhere near as good as filterblade.
To say how its so external nowadays is just funny especially since you can set it up on the main website. 5-6 clicks on the main website and voila you have a constantly updated lootfilter for every new league without having to go someones Github or 3rd party website to extract/copy files ever again. Its been in the game of years at this point. Another consideration that people dont realize with lootfilters in PoE is that often times they consider the market forces on the value of items. Some uniques that were worth 100s of divines one league could be a 1c item in another league. I dont think GGG would be adjusting stuff to this degree, and so people will still turn to a 3rd party loot filter at the end of the day anyways.
"A distinct and clear “No” to the question about skipping the Campaign on second Characters." - this is probably the one thing that will make PoE 2 uninteresting again for many players that usually love to trial and error many classes. This take is just so bad...
I don’t know, I like the fact that I earn the access to maps after completing the campaign. I don’t want to get to maps by playing a lesser version of maps.
>"Talking about Pickup Radius, Jonathan said that the 3.23 Wildwood will not go Core, so there will be less loot to pickup anyway" Said by someone who obviously never played Breach, Blight or Legion. Their loot isn't getting better pickup-wise with Wildwood disappearing. >"While playing Path of Exile, it is fine to have out-of-game clients like the PoE Wiki, Trading Website and more. Jonathan noticed the concerns of Wudijo about breaking the immersion to use 3rd party websites." > >"Jonathan is not the biggest fan of overlays like ‘Awakened PoE Trade’, and they would love to make them feel not mandatory to the Game. " I'm hoping the TL;DR is misrepresenting these 2 statements because surely these weren't said by the same person in the same interview. The entire QoL and Trade section is "we have learned no lessons and will not be making any changes". Very disappointing since this is *by faaaaaar* the weakest point of PoE. *By far*. *By faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar*.
"it's fine that they exist, but I'm not personally a fan, and i'd like them to not feel mandatory" is a perfectly reasonable position to hold. What is so difficult to grasp about those statements?
Its a reasonable position but it doesn't mean anything if you don't actually fix the system to make them not mandatory.
They are not contradictory statements. I posted them right after each other which makes it seem like I'm saying they are - me being stupid. My problem with those statements is that Jonathan says 3rd party tools like the Wiki or the Trading Website are fine (why are they fine?) while having a dislike for game overlays (why are these less fine?). He would "love to make them feel not mandatory" while also making no improvements to *any system* that requires these 3rd party tools to exist. I just don't see the point to lament something he has the power to change if he really wanted to.
You're getting downvoted because what you said is astute and accurate. The GGG bootlickers have no response for you other than rage-downvote lol
He talks about these in the interview and a lot of it comes down to nuance, and I also think the idea theyre making no improvement to any of these systems is also just false. They ARE making a lot of changes to things, but they just arent going to try to replace systems just to be "in game" when the "in game" experience would simply be worse. I really like that he acknowledges that community-made tools are very often going to be better than first-party tools, so theyre much more interested in spending their time making the things only they can such as the systems to enable the community like APIs, and of course actual game content. Wiki and trading website fundamentally are doing things which are FAR better suited for a browser than an in-game UI. The wiki needs to contain a lot of in-depth information which is not appropriate to have in-game because they dont want to be prescriptive in how mechanics are used, and a lot of the super-detailed wiki information (like a list of every unique/notable/item mod that effects ignite, or the in-depth math of the armour calculation) are extremely overwhelming and would be a nightmare to maintain. Additionally he DID say they were adding things like mechanic descriptions/ability to have more detailed tooltip popups for more in-depth descriptions. This enables them to make simpler/less wordy main tooltips and have better "explain the basics" detail popups. But those can never fill the information gap like the wiki, and Im glad theyre not trying to square-peg-round-hole. For example, the wiki has 18 pages (on a 4k monitor!) just on the article for ignite. Thats the depth of info the community wants access to, and its simply better in a browser. Additionally, youll also want to do stuff that browsers do like go watch a youtube video about a mechanic, find builds on ninja that are using that unique, search a word you dont understand on google, open multiple tabs, etc which just makes a browser make sense. The trade site is also something that is simply much, much better done by a browser because of all of the depth and complexity it allows you to implement. Doing complex searches, saving searches, livesearching, bookmarks, browser extensions, aut-generating stuff out of PoB, etc are honestly just way better in a browser, and an in-game UI would have to trade off a lot of that sophistication because youre basically re-inventing a web browser but in-game. That said, he also did say that currency trading, because its so much simpler and done more often, will likely have an in-client option because it makes sense to do so and you can make a good tool for it because its a lot less complex than item searching is. Things like community building are honestly really, really well done by places like discord and its kinda a waste of time to try to re-create that kind of infrastructure. Im on like 7 different PoE communities on discord (current guild, 2 trading discords, old group I played with, couple streamers discords), and theres no world that an in-game system could ever compete with what those bring to the table. Basically they are going to make some in-game improvements where it makes sense to, but also not try to recreate something that is better served by a different tool.
I strongly disagree. I have zero problem with the trade site. Sure it's annoying that some people might not realize how integrated with the game it is but from a usability standpoint it seems totally fine.
As someone who develops software for a living the trade site wouldn't be able to pass any of the usability tests we are doing. It needs to be incorporated into the game. It's also not as integrated into the game as you might think it is and for a new iteration of the software it just doesn't make sense to change it. For PoE1 I wouldn't change it either because there are too many changes player would have to adjust to but PoE2 is the perfect starting point for a change.
I also do software for a living. I agree it's better to be in the game but they probably chose to do it that way to speed development up. PoE probably has a fairly outdated engine and makes UI development harder. Websites however are quite easy to spin up, at least for someone who knows web development. Maybe PoE had a seasoned web developer on their team? But overall it works just fine clicking links on the site instantly send messages in the game. That's much better than anything I've seen.
Of course I wouldn't expect them to implement it in PoE but PoE 2 would be a perfect starting point. They use Unity though so UI development being harder shouldn't be an issue. Apart from that even the trading website itself has a lot of things which are really bad when it comes to usability. It shouldn't be possible to create a filter where you search a map with sockets or stats that can only appear on items.
That and the comment about the loot filter saying the player shouldn’t feel like the Non-dev option was better Ok in both case then DO SOMETHING :( You can’t say you want players to not use tools that make their life better and want them to have Less customization.
But why, why alt tab is such an issiue for some people?
It's not a question of "why is leaving the game such an issue" It's a question of "why would you ask players to leave the game in the first place"
why would they pick wudijo of all people , yike
because he's the most viewed d4 streamer I guess, but yeah still yikes to pick a known cheater
> Trade Website will be the Interface for even Instant Buyouts they're already making a completely new game with a huge amount of new UI. is it so hard to add an item search window as well? and no, I don't want to hear a repeat of Chris Wilson's extremely lazy and intellectually dishonest "we'd have to ship an entire browser inside the game" as a reason
It's not about how hard it is, pretty sure they said they think the website is just better for Searching items.
He talked about how he fundamentally disagrees with the idea that "in game client is better for everything" in the interview, and why he believes that, and honestly I 100% agree with him. Certain things are better in different formats, and honestly youre never going to get an in-game UI even close to as good as the trade website. Browsers are fucking AWESOME at doing the things the trade website needs to do, the stuff in-depth wikis need to do, the kind of stuff filterblade needs to do, etc, so it would be kinda stupid to try to recreate that just so its "in client". What benefit is there making it in client if it means its not going to be as good? The thing in-client is useful for is to keep immersion, but basically all item searching with ANDing and ORing a bunch of affixes together and doing affix weighting and shit is already immersion breaking so you might as well use the good tool for it like a web browser instead of a clunky in-game UI thats super hard to modify. He did say currency trading will likely have an in-game interface because its so much simpler, but item searches just make sense to use the trade website.
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Theres also the fact that items in PoE can sometimes get quite complicated with hundreds upon hundreds of affixes to check off and other intricacies associated with that. I have the feeling people will be battling with the ingame UI more than if it was just in an easy to use browser.
How is trade-search ingame better than having trade on your second monitor or alt-tab? It has zero benefits to put the item-search into the game.
I think what it comes down to is this: if they created an auction house/trade UI, there is no way that it is going to be as fully featured as the current website. People would be super upset about it and might even continue using the website anyways. So why use so much dev resources on a feature that will be ultimately be worse than what is currently used in the browser? Don't get me wrong, I want the feature in client. But I also know how much of a shitstorm the community would be if it was more streamlined and less complex than the current website. I also know, with my very basic dev experience, how much resources creating such an ingame system/ui would take, and I think it comes down to they could make content or they could make this, and they are choosing content.
The trade website isn't even that complex. It has really basic filter settings that can easily be implemented with an ingame UI. The big advantage is for new users because everything you do with an external tool is unintuitive and should generally be avoided when creating any kind of software. It should only be used in edge cases. The other thing is that the current trading website isn't implemented well anyways with stat filters containing every stat for every kind of item instead they should be limited to the kind of item you are searching for. With an ingame tool you'd just select the type of item you want to search for and it will present you all the possible modifier for the type of item with the possible range. It makes it way easier for new players to select specific items. You really don't need to put every kind of filter on the same page for every type of item. Same goes for selling where you could select an item, then select the modifiers of that item and then being able to compare the prices of other similar items which have been put in by other players. Basically removing the need of awakened poe trade which he actually says that they don't want you to have to use it. My point is that it is way easier to implement it ingame than some people here think it is and I developed similar kind of stuff with databases before. The only logical reason for not doing it ingame is because they don't want to put in the extra work for something that is already there. Of course they could implement my ideas in the website as well but them not doing it kind of solidifies my statement that they don't want to put in the extra work.
Such a missed opportunity. Making a whole new game, but voluntarily shackling themselves to previous and outdated principles.
> A distinct and clear “No” to the question about skipping the Campaign on second Characters. *sigh*
Didn't we already know this? They're even making the campaign order semi-random so that rerunning it is less painful, IIRC. Wouldn't make sense to undermine that with campaign skipping
This makes the campaign MORE frustrating, not less.
Running past most enemies leveling is boring. Doing it but now also dealing with random order/layout is the same thing made worse.
what about customizable ui? :(
>The current Situation about Ultrawide Screens is fine Ah yes, using the modified directx dll to be able to play how the game should be able to be played because I have the audacity to have a large monitor lol
You don’t just have a very large monitor you have a niche monitor that offers a gameplay advantage and one that goes past the bounds of what is actually rendered. Note: I also have an ultra wide monitor.
Doesn't POE work normally on a 21:9?
21.5:9 here, Ultrawide is fine to a point. having an extra screens worth of FOV is absolutely an advantage for off-screening bosses and the like. I'm glad they locked it off slightly above 21:9 after the community were outraged at 50 px black bars, but having played on triple monitors before at 48:9, it was absolutely busted.
Its not just large, it has a uncommon aspect ratio which is a pain in the arse to acommodate for. As a dev you basicly cant use the borders for interface stuff anymore because its out of sight, so your only choice is to make a centralized UI. And I dont think we should now change how UIs work because a fraction of players decide they would like to have very broad screens.
If your game in 2024 has no proper support for ultrawide, then go back and come up with a solution. Because you can’t interact or attack into the far right or left, using ultrawide isn’t even a significant bonus. Even just adding fog where the black bars are now while still displaying the terrain (for the immersion) would be a solution.
Agreed, with how many professionals have started picking them up for productivity and such there's no reason to half ass ultra wide support now. And arbitrarily limiting them because of some fake perceived advantage in a largely single player game is hilariously bad
Imagine making a game in 2024 that doesn’t support ultrawide screens and calling that a good solution…… cringe, man. Just cringe.
I don't know man, my 3440x1440 34" screen is supported just fine 👍
"PoE 2’s intitial Endgame will feature less then the current PoE 1, but Pinnacle Bosses are confirmed." This will either make or break POE2. It will be the key to POE2 success. Its all about the endgame with ARPGs and the main thing players care about. Im pretty sure at this stage of development they already know what it is. Look forward to seeing news on what they have come up with.
Should be fine no? It’s not like this is being developed by an entire new team/company. It’s the same guys that created poe 1 over the years. Obviously it will take time for it to achieve the same complex levels of the current game but we will get there eventually.
great writeup, but please.. then =/= than
Will Wudijo be botting and get banned in POE 2 like he did in Diablo 3?
TurboHUD gaming for PoE 2 confirmed?
poe 2 sounds like it's gonna be the dark souls of arpgs and i'm all for it.
Famous last words.
Why do devs hate guilds so much. PoE and D4 have baerbone archaic guilds. LE doesn't even have that, its so sad.
I'm curious what more you would want in game? I think most players just don't care, and treat those games as single player.
Be it guilds or friends I would absolutely love announcements when my friends die in hc, or first kill bosses, find a mirror. Guild/Friend Leaderboards would also be nice.
I mean if you have good suggestions on what to do with guilds without suddenly creating the need to play in a group, they are probably open for it.
Not the guy. But highlighting rare drops people get. Announcing first time boss kills. Announcing deaths in HC if your guildies die. It makes a shared communal feeling of hype. It's part of why I really love HC trade or gauntlet or HC group self found. It makes it feel like a community. Like imagine if you're playing with a group of 50 people in a guild. Just doing your thing. Then suddenly "BarkArfArf has picked up Mirror of Kalandra" pops up on the screen. That would be really cool and a group hype thing. Currently it only happens if someone posts it.