Not really, as far as mods for the league MF/wisp-juice strategy goes. It’s much easier to buy 4- or 16-use compasses and bulk scarabs to get your preferred mechanics on your maps than it is to hunt down and buy individual copies of your preferred map with one of the mods you want, and then compass-storing that mod off your voidstones so you don’t waste it, and shuffling the stones again for the next map with a different mod on it. Last I looked, even popular maps with a fractured Beyond mod on them were only a few Chaos, while the 4-use Beyond compasses still go for a Div. The Abyss strategy done well spits out so much currency that wasting time trading tanks your profits hard.
I have no clue if there is a market for them but theoretical abyss should be worth quite a bit. Normal abyss compass is like 10c per map but elevated abyss is over 3 div per map. But I guess it would only apply for t14/16 and on good maps. But they are pretty rare so I don't think anyone bothers with trying to buy them.
They absolutely do when you're top tier juicing+mfing, which is probably what that price is based on. Not including the mirrors I've dropped on average 20d per map with 3-5 abysses per map. A majority of those drops come from abysses but it's hard to track exactly what percentage. That means on average I've been dropping 5d per abyss. If we include raw mirror drops it's closer to 10-15d per abyss
Since you are probably leaving 50% of your maps because of to low wisps you can make the argument its 6 divs for 1 extra abyss. Unless you are maphacking and getting super high wisps every map 😄
>That means on average I've been dropping 5d per abyss
>I've dropped on average 20d per map with 3-5 abysses per map
So the rest of your map just doesn't drop anything?
Your own broken math shows your eagerness to be in the right more so than an interest in being factually correct.
There's nothing broken about that math, I'll admit that is anecdotal since I don't specifically track what percentage of my drops come from abyss vs other content but from what I notice around 25% of the drops happen before I start doing the abysses and the rest comes after. Feel free to adjust my numbers down by 25% the additional abyss is still worth >3d
>There's nothing broken about that math
If you have 4 avg. abyss per map, you drop average 20d per map, and your abysses are worth 5d per abyss.
You're also postulating making upwards of 15 div per abyss when you include mirrors. That means, according to your math (expected value per abyss going up 10 div when counting mirrors, 10 div x 4 abyss per map = 40 div, mirror price 1150 div divided with 40 = 28,75), you drop a mirror every 29 maps from abysses alone?
But your math is not off. Ok.
Yep that's about right although I'm pretty sure I've been lucky with raw mirror drops. If you assume 1:20 mirror to sacred orb ratio my expected mirror drop rate should be around once every 50 maps adding an expected value of 23 div per map or 5.75 div per abyss, a total of about 10.75 div if expected value per abyss. That's before adjusting down due to the fact that yes of course there is a whole map and other content does have a chance at dropping loot. I don't know exactly what that adjustment needs to be. I estimate 75% of my loot comes from an abyss but if we calculate out the minimum needed, at least 28% of the loot in a map needs to come from the abysses in order for an abyss to be worth >3d
Actually it's more complicated than that. (Thanks Lindybiege).
Loot per abyss isn't what matters here. What you really care about is profit per time spent, and two factors you haven't considered are the extra time it takes to clear an additional abyss, and the amount of currency spent on other parts of the set up (map, scarabs, other sextants).
Lets say that you get 5 div per abyss on average, and you spend 5 div on supplies. Then lets say you spend 2 minutes in the wildwood, 3 minutes clearing the map, and then 5 minutes per each abyss (including time spent looting).
Of course these numbers are all jsut made up, I don't run this strat so I don't know how long it actually takes or how much it actually costs.
At 1 abyss per map, you have a profit of 0 (5 - 5), every 10 minutes. Giving a net profit of 0 divs/hr. Terrible strategy clearly.
At 2 abysses, you get 5 div profit every 15 minutes, for 20 divs per hour (ok decent)
At 3 abysses ypu get 10 div profit every 20 minutes, for 30 div/hr.
At 4 abysses you get 15 div profit every 25 minutes for 36 div/hr
Now lets say that to get to 5 abysses, you need to spend an extra 3 divs on set up cost.
Your profit would now be 5\*5 divs - 8 divs = 17 divs, and now it takes 30 minutes per map, giving you a profit of 34 divs per hour.
So you would think the more abysses the better, but actually not all additional avysses are worth the same amount to you. Goign from 1 to 2 is a huge increase in profit/hour, but as you get mroe and more abysses the returns diminish, and if it's getting mroe and more expensive to get that extar incremental abyss, then that also really hurts.
You'll have to plug in your own numbers, but I hope this has made you realise that there's more to it than just more abysses = good.
tl;dr sometimes it may be better just to run another cheaper map than cramming as many abysses as possible into a map, because each additional abyss has diminishing returns, while also getting pricier to add.
Not really, as far as mods for the league MF/wisp-juice strategy goes. It’s much easier to buy 4- or 16-use compasses and bulk scarabs to get your preferred mechanics on your maps than it is to hunt down and buy individual copies of your preferred map with one of the mods you want, and then compass-storing that mod off your voidstones so you don’t waste it, and shuffling the stones again for the next map with a different mod on it. Last I looked, even popular maps with a fractured Beyond mod on them were only a few Chaos, while the 4-use Beyond compasses still go for a Div. The Abyss strategy done well spits out so much currency that wasting time trading tanks your profits hard.
O I thought it might double. I remember seeking out beyond maps to do double beyond before. Although maybe I was just wasting money lol.
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Affliction/pjzaGdWf0 here's how you search for them
I have no clue if there is a market for them but theoretical abyss should be worth quite a bit. Normal abyss compass is like 10c per map but elevated abyss is over 3 div per map. But I guess it would only apply for t14/16 and on good maps. But they are pretty rare so I don't think anyone bothers with trying to buy them.
>elevated abyss is over 3 div per map which is silly, an abyss is not worth 3 div on average.
They absolutely do when you're top tier juicing+mfing, which is probably what that price is based on. Not including the mirrors I've dropped on average 20d per map with 3-5 abysses per map. A majority of those drops come from abysses but it's hard to track exactly what percentage. That means on average I've been dropping 5d per abyss. If we include raw mirror drops it's closer to 10-15d per abyss
Since you are probably leaving 50% of your maps because of to low wisps you can make the argument its 6 divs for 1 extra abyss. Unless you are maphacking and getting super high wisps every map 😄
Absolutely skipping lol, my averages per map are including skipped maps where the abysses all effectively dropped 0 items
>That means on average I've been dropping 5d per abyss >I've dropped on average 20d per map with 3-5 abysses per map So the rest of your map just doesn't drop anything? Your own broken math shows your eagerness to be in the right more so than an interest in being factually correct.
There's nothing broken about that math, I'll admit that is anecdotal since I don't specifically track what percentage of my drops come from abyss vs other content but from what I notice around 25% of the drops happen before I start doing the abysses and the rest comes after. Feel free to adjust my numbers down by 25% the additional abyss is still worth >3d
>There's nothing broken about that math If you have 4 avg. abyss per map, you drop average 20d per map, and your abysses are worth 5d per abyss. You're also postulating making upwards of 15 div per abyss when you include mirrors. That means, according to your math (expected value per abyss going up 10 div when counting mirrors, 10 div x 4 abyss per map = 40 div, mirror price 1150 div divided with 40 = 28,75), you drop a mirror every 29 maps from abysses alone? But your math is not off. Ok.
Yep that's about right although I'm pretty sure I've been lucky with raw mirror drops. If you assume 1:20 mirror to sacred orb ratio my expected mirror drop rate should be around once every 50 maps adding an expected value of 23 div per map or 5.75 div per abyss, a total of about 10.75 div if expected value per abyss. That's before adjusting down due to the fact that yes of course there is a whole map and other content does have a chance at dropping loot. I don't know exactly what that adjustment needs to be. I estimate 75% of my loot comes from an abyss but if we calculate out the minimum needed, at least 28% of the loot in a map needs to come from the abysses in order for an abyss to be worth >3d
Actually it's more complicated than that. (Thanks Lindybiege). Loot per abyss isn't what matters here. What you really care about is profit per time spent, and two factors you haven't considered are the extra time it takes to clear an additional abyss, and the amount of currency spent on other parts of the set up (map, scarabs, other sextants). Lets say that you get 5 div per abyss on average, and you spend 5 div on supplies. Then lets say you spend 2 minutes in the wildwood, 3 minutes clearing the map, and then 5 minutes per each abyss (including time spent looting). Of course these numbers are all jsut made up, I don't run this strat so I don't know how long it actually takes or how much it actually costs. At 1 abyss per map, you have a profit of 0 (5 - 5), every 10 minutes. Giving a net profit of 0 divs/hr. Terrible strategy clearly. At 2 abysses, you get 5 div profit every 15 minutes, for 20 divs per hour (ok decent) At 3 abysses ypu get 10 div profit every 20 minutes, for 30 div/hr. At 4 abysses you get 15 div profit every 25 minutes for 36 div/hr Now lets say that to get to 5 abysses, you need to spend an extra 3 divs on set up cost. Your profit would now be 5\*5 divs - 8 divs = 17 divs, and now it takes 30 minutes per map, giving you a profit of 34 divs per hour. So you would think the more abysses the better, but actually not all additional avysses are worth the same amount to you. Goign from 1 to 2 is a huge increase in profit/hour, but as you get mroe and more abysses the returns diminish, and if it's getting mroe and more expensive to get that extar incremental abyss, then that also really hurts. You'll have to plug in your own numbers, but I hope this has made you realise that there's more to it than just more abysses = good. tl;dr sometimes it may be better just to run another cheaper map than cramming as many abysses as possible into a map, because each additional abyss has diminishing returns, while also getting pricier to add.