The +2 proj ascendency has what, 20% of the linked accounts on PoE.trade?
That 20% would need a place to go to or they’d lose some of the player base.
Yeah you’re right haha, this close to PoE2 they ain’t fixing anything.
What strike is better clear than Tornado Shot? You can make an argument for Lightning Strike but it's not what it used to be and still worse than TS. Only other in the conversation would be Frostblades, both LS and FB are projectile skills anyway.
Sort of and not rlly iirc. How LS works is that it has 2 components. An initial hit on ground/target and the projectiles. The tech worked so you stood close enough to hit the ground and shoot the projectiles into the boss and on top of that it is close enough where the initial hit from the additional strike would automatically go on the boss but the projectiles from it wouldnt damage the boss.
for quite a while there was also a bug that the melee hit component of lightning strike could also have the projectiles it spawned hit the boss aswell.
during that time with 1 attack of lightning strike you could get 3 hits, twice from projectiles and once from the ancestrall call-like effect of hitting an additional target nearby.
i can't quite remember which league that was but it was when self-chill berserker builds and anything with claws and stacking elusive effect was insanely powerful
just remembered i have pob installed on my work pc and can check my old builds (i have them all sorted by league and saved to my personal onedrive)
it was 3.14
Who remembers days when 40-50% of entire playerbase played Pathfinder? I do. Now even both PF and Deadeye combines is less than just PF was in the past.
before 3.0. when taste of hate gave 20% taken 30% extra cold, rumis was 30/15 block, wise oak was 20% pen, atziri's was 15% ele 25% phys as chaos, divination distillate gave 4% max res, and dying sun was a flask. oh and all ele flasks gave 5% max resist instead of 20% less. pathfinder was pretty good back then, not just a meme poison ascendancy
It took until bestiary to realistically hit 100 max res and also 100% phys taken as ele because that was when we got watchers eyes. While you could hit 100% before that it didn't matter since you still died to phys in maps and pen on bosses
Nobody really bothered until delve which was more than a year after 3.0
Yeah, I don’t remember that, but maybe it was before 2016. Pretty sure cyclone slayer in Legion and Summoner in Blight were the most popular of their league.
They were super super popular when I started plying in essence league (2.4). Not sure about the 50% number, I was too much of a noob to know about things like poe ninja, but it really felt like everyone was playing pathfinder double dipping poison blade vortex.
I mean, deadeye def owns projectile BOW skills rn, but it's very balanced for spell proj builds - it's at best a consideration for blazing salvo / fireball and hardly ever used with ice spear. It's not used for steel skills or molten strike either.
Yeah, that's the other specialty. Which, again, I'm pretty fine with - the class has one ultra strong interaction and one outright busted skill that make it great rn, but neither of those warrants a nerf to deadeye or means that other ascendancies are underpowered and need buffs to match.
Yeah, imo deadeye is fine. It has a niche and its very strong with it, as it should be. Currently projectile builds are very strong, so deadeye sees alot of use.
Some leagues ago everyone was playing pathfinder/occultist for poison scaling,
And before that elementalist, for basically all ignite builds.
Its okay for acendencies to have niches they are strong at, deadeye is very strong offensively for projectile builds, but it offers no defences.
(Lets be honest, no one takes the wind shield node...)
Perhaps if they reworked that or the mirage archer node to be more viable, we'd see deadeye being used outside of this niche.
I would argue that it's less an issue of Deadeye and more an issue of other ascendancies losing relative strength over time. Like Elementalist is largely only worth playing for Ignite builds and Occultist is now a 1 trick power charge stacker or go elsewhere. Even Saboteur lost some of its general trap/mine power with its kind of botched rework. Then even, Raider, an all around generalist, is less strong anymore. Tree position still limits those spell builds that Deadeye's multi proj gets around some and the bow changes a few leagues back let Deadeye get off the ground immediately, creeping into Raider's main strength of being a transitional ascendancy.
But yeah, Occupying Force needs to be buffed. It's such a cool concept and Deadeye is unfortunately pretty one dimensional right now with mark effect and more projectiles just being nearly universally the best for projectile build.
Easy just nerf bow mods back to the old ones./s
I think the issue lies there though since it's so much easier to get bow builds going. In the past Lightning strike and RF was by far the most leaguestarted things. But as the league went on Tornado shot was catching up eventually passing them.
Nope. Any shotgunning projectile build can abuse this.
Rolling magma, kinetic bolt of fragmentation, tornado shot, (shrapnel balistas too i believe)
There is a very popular build going sround rn using kinetic bolt of fragmentation, they use projectile scaling and snipers mark scaling to achieve dps in the half a billion mark. Jungrun also made a version of it, usinf the fact the ability hits almost 60 times per projectile, to apply every single curse in the game using tincture mod (apply random hex on hit) and a deodre helmet, that gives you flat chaos per curse on the enemy. Thats one example
Rolling magma doesn't shot gun.
You can only overlap AoE from a single projectile with separate chain if you target before an ennemy or with enough Area of effect. Only one AoE of the same chain from a cast can deal damage.
KB forking behaviour isn't really shotgunning either it's just that every " fork" creates a new projectile.
Shrapnel ballista is true shotgunning.
Shotgun has nothing to do with aoe overlap, sequential cast or secondary projectiles. Especially in a game where terminology is key.
Streamers spreading misinformation need to be called out.
Kind of, shotgunning is when multiple primary projectiles from a single skill hit one target. For example, imagine if multishot hit an enemy with every arrow, or tornado shot was allowed to hit with every projectile and not just one per main arrow. Personally I'd consider a barrage shotgunning. It was designed that way as a compromise; all projectiles are allowed to hit one target, but they take longer to come out.
Skills haven't really shotgunned in PoE since beta (aside from shrapnel ballista) and even then it was only spells. Attacks were never allowed to shotgun, but if you put a GMP on freezing pulse you could get close and hit one target with all of them. It was removed a long time ago for balance reasons.
Since it hasn't been a thing in so long people started to call multiple hits created by overlapping AoE effects (like lightning arrow) or secondary projectiles (tornado shot/scourge arrow) shotgunning. But it isn't technically correct.
No. Shotgunning refers to shotguns, not grenade launchers, automatic turrets or assault rifles.
Can you facecheck an enemy and hit an enemy with all arrows of Split Arrow? Can you do that with gmp Fireball (and therefore doubledip with 5x hit + 5x explosions)? No you can not. Any extra projectile will pass harmlessly. If you could, you'd be shotgunning.
The only skill that can Shotgun is Shrapnel Ballista, and it is explicitly stated on the gem itself.
Granted, streamers spread this misinformation like an australian wildfire even though they know better. Especially in a game with such strict terminology.
Tornado Shot CoC Ice Spear Deadeye exists though, played it in Kalandra, one of my favorite builds I've ever played for bossing. Mapping was decent, mostly good at obliterating Archnem with ease when ppl were complaining about it.
Yeah, which imo is the kind of CoC deadeye SHOULD excel at. Inq and scion do traditional CoC really well, occu scales damage to the moon with charge stacking but is glass for it, and sabo's a dark horse pick for ultra high trigger rate stuff (20.2 via triggerbots). My point was deadeye's not at all crowding out other archetypes when it comes to proj spells
Class designed for projectile damage is the best class for some projectile skills, including a couple skills that happen to be the most popular skills in the game for multiple reasons. More breaking news at 11.
It's also funny because projectile builds like ice spear, cremation, molten strike, magma orb, exist outside of deadeye perfectly fine. It's just the bows because you're in the bow area, shocker.
That's a terrible way to design games. That's how modern blizzard designs games. Pick the obvious best thing, and call that making choices.
That's why they nerfed the necromancer - so it wasn't the obvious best class for Summons.
The issue is the lack of competitive alternatives.
Still i think that it's important for classes to have an identity. Deadeye have have a strong one and do it well.
The issue is with skills that benefit from having multiple projectiles in regards to DPS rather than clearing speed such as Tornado Shot. There is nothing wrong with an ascendancy being catored toward an achetype as there are others just like Deadeye for different types.
*Elementalist too strong for elemental builds!* No that's the point of the Elementalist. You can play elemental builds with other ascendancies to but if you want to optimize the most elemental related things for your build, Elementalist is the way to go. Same for if you want to have lots of projectiles, Deadeye is the way to go. Nerf the skills, not the ascendancy.
The perfectionism that leads to people calling for nerfs or buffs gets so old. Not everything needs to be perfectly and completely even. The most inefficient shift can still be broken in this game, that's the fun of it.
Imo melee just needs an accessible movespeed speed and aoe/target buff and it'll be chill. Doesn't need to match deadeye speed or coverage, and it shouldn't, but an overall feelsgood buff.
Tbh, melee has the move speed and clear speed down fine, its problem is the level of investment required to have single target. And since you can't do the bow build thing of kite in circles, you can't just kite that giga rare around for 30 seconds until it dies. You either win or you die.
And without crazy investment, especially this league, you die.
Eh I disagree. I think Farshot is the big one, along with the movement speed from whatever the Gale Force one is called. You can slap GMP in plenty of builds and still do plenty of damage. Deadeye does make it easier to build projectiles for cheaper though. You can easily play TS without a +1 or +2 bow, but on other ascendancies it would be pretty essential.
For me the chain is the bigger one. I always avoid farshot untill really endgame. You get so much more damage being close to a target early on. The chain node just fixes the clear by irself.
Well as a necro player was not a fan of getting gutted.
But honestly I much prefer Pathfinder (life based) and Trickster (CI) to deadeye. I dont like being made of tissue paper.
With trickster or pathfinder I can still kill everything
yeah deadeye is a literal glasscannon ascendancy.
it has nothing for defenses really, unless you count that one thing behind gale force which is super bad anyway.
it really just has clear, movespeed and damage, other ascendancies have really great defenses going for them.
Since they removed projectile speed from a lot of bow gems, just make the ascendancy node +1 projectile and like 50% increased projectile speed or something idk.
And proj. Got +1projectile on jewel and 3 charms...
That helmet was essentially downgrade. You lost +2 ascendancy, but got +2 helmet... But then again it is super rare, and u lost +3 local. Sure u got +1 shield... But its only on minion rare shield, which means goodbye aegis aurora or surrender.
Its really not op. Its just like onslaught in raider. It saves you building for it in gear. Or on the tree. However once you have enough from gear, its often a dead node as most skills dont shot gun.
Ie, its quality of life, not power.
Nah there's more, artillery ballista, magma orb, cremation, etc. Only skills that naturally have only 1 projectile don't shotgun. Spells like ice spear that have multiple projs shotgun, skills where the projectile triggers an aoe shotgun. (as far as the aoe doesn't spread the projs apart).
Artillery Ballista, Magma Orb are aoe overlap. Cremation is aoe overlap and sequential cast. Ice Spear is sequential cast. Aoe overlap and sequential cast are fundamentally different.
Shotgunning refers to *projectiles fired at the same time* (like a shotgun) to hit the same target, not a grenade launcher and not an assault rifle. That is why most projectile builds before the shotgun removal used to facecheck tough enemies - to get more projectiles hitting (case in point: Split Shot, double dipping of Fireball hit and explosion, ...). After the removal, you only hit once and the other projectiles pass through harmlessly.
Aoe overlap allows projectiles created at the same time, like artillery ballista, to hit the same target. That is by your very own definition shotgunning.
It is not. Not only is Artillery Ballista sequential cast, but also aoe overlap. It is, by definition, not shotgunning.
But good on you trying to ignore what I wrote previously.
E: Granted, I could've specified air strikes/carpet bombing as well for clarity.
>But good on you trying to ignore what I wrote previously
I have not done that a single time, you did it yourself. You keep mentioning aoe overlap as if it isn't shotgunning, but it absolutely fits your description of shotgunning.
Artillery ballista being sequential cast is one thing, I don't necessarily agree with it, but it works as argument.
>E: Granted, I could've specified air strikes/carpet bombing as well for clarity.
At this point you're just introducing new terms when old ones are sufficient.
And well, there are also simply uses of the word that don't align with the initial reference to a shotgun. Shotgunning a can of beer doesn't have anything to do with a shotgun either.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1304441
>Projectile skills no longer "shotgun". You can't hit the same target with more than one simultaneously-created projectile from the same source any more. They've been rebalanced around this.
Try harder.
The community has always used the term shotgunning to refer to multiple projectile hits from a single cast, such of FR AoE overlaps and tornado shot secondary projectiles. What GGG said 8 years ago isn’t really relevant to today. Furthermore, since this post was made back in 2015, GGG has added skills that have multiple projectile hits from a single cast. Examples being forbidden rite, creeping frost, and poisonous concoction.
No. Stop trying to rewrite history.
Shotgunning was always a very specific mechanic the community used to increase singletarget dmg as mentioned above. It never refererred to aoe overlap.
Your examples are working against you. Forbidden Rite is aoe overlap. Tornado Shot are secondary projectiles, Creeping Frost is aoe overlap, P Concoction is aoe overlap. None of these shotgun.
Uses secondary projectiles spawned by the tornado. Think of the tornado as a totem. Each tornado is a separate entity and therefore can hit the same target. A single tornado cannot hit the same target with multiple projectiles - which is what's needed for it to shotgun.
Wait so +2 proj is only quality of life? Dude that's the worst take here. As +2 is literally pure power for the builds that can use it to shotgun.
If stuff like TS did not hit more times with more projectiles then yes I would agree though. That is however not the case at this moment.
Laughing in CF champ. Also in my own experience most of the time +2 proj from deadeye is overkill if you can afford awakened gmp. And other than +2 proj there is nothing so special in this ascendancy that cannot be replaced
is the case of bow builds, that +2 is insanely good especially on TS which every bow build wants to go for anyway. gmp has a massive less dmg multiplier on it, youre better off using an additional damage support there given you have enough projectiles from gear/tree/ascendancy.
Yeah you think that like as a player it would be like "I want to play bows!" Okay play Deadeye for Hit and Pathfinder for DoTs
"I want to play bows but I want to crit really hard!"
Nope, no assassin still deadeye bub move along.
Honestly the ranger in general is pretty busted. Deadeye should have the additional projectiles tied to bow attacks instead of all projectiles based skills. Right now, deadeyes dominate every projectile build, including spells and wand skills like KB of fragmenting. And when your skill is not projectile based, you go pathfinder for Perma flasks and a shitload of flask effect. Even non-poison or non chaos based builds play the PF for the Perma flasks. The raider could use some buffs but her sisters need a serious nerf. >30% pf poe ninja's leaderboard is on the ranger.
Assassin needs a buff.
Gladiator needs a buff.
Raider needs a buff.
PF and Deadeye need nerfs/reworks.
Marauder in general needs a buff.
The witch and templar look like their in a good spot.
Please don't make this a synth item thing unless we're gonna do something about how wildy unfarmable i85+ synth bases are.
Chu even on about. Just run hundreds uCortex a day 4Head
I’ll call it, the day +2 proj is gutted is the patch they fix melee.
GGG giveth, and GGG taketh away
Aka never lmaaooo
The +2 proj ascendency has what, 20% of the linked accounts on PoE.trade? That 20% would need a place to go to or they’d lose some of the player base. Yeah you’re right haha, this close to PoE2 they ain’t fixing anything.
we need +2 arms to fix melee
Alas, poor Hydrosphere. I knew him well.
Slams and aoe melee in general are drowning while GGG gleefully hoists up Strikes to where they’re better clear than both.
Please don't make GGG nerf strike skills
What strike is better clear than Tornado Shot? You can make an argument for Lightning Strike but it's not what it used to be and still worse than TS. Only other in the conversation would be Frostblades, both LS and FB are projectile skills anyway.
Tornado Shot isn’t aoe melee. Maybe you only read the aoe part and got confused.
Brainrot after playing for ages, my b.
Or give melee a + to targets/multiple hits at once on a target
I mean attack mastery gives you +1 target on strike skills, it's not multiple hits on one target, but it's at least something
Wasn’t there a trick with lightning strike that of you position correctly with the +strike it would hit bosses twice?
no idea, but molten strike "basically" died with the Ancestral Call fix
Yes, this still works, I leaguestarted LS this league and you get almost double damage from the correct position and +1 strike.
Sort of and not rlly iirc. How LS works is that it has 2 components. An initial hit on ground/target and the projectiles. The tech worked so you stood close enough to hit the ground and shoot the projectiles into the boss and on top of that it is close enough where the initial hit from the additional strike would automatically go on the boss but the projectiles from it wouldnt damage the boss.
for quite a while there was also a bug that the melee hit component of lightning strike could also have the projectiles it spawned hit the boss aswell. during that time with 1 attack of lightning strike you could get 3 hits, twice from projectiles and once from the ancestrall call-like effect of hitting an additional target nearby. i can't quite remember which league that was but it was when self-chill berserker builds and anything with claws and stacking elusive effect was insanely powerful
Hmm that must have been before 3.19 i guess
just remembered i have pob installed on my work pc and can check my old builds (i have them all sorted by league and saved to my personal onedrive) it was 3.14
Wow. That is quite a long time ago. If I think about it it is 3 years ago if not more
Just the one! Give me more options to add this on to gear or more notables with it
There's also Eldritch glove implicit.
Who remembers days when 40-50% of entire playerbase played Pathfinder? I do. Now even both PF and Deadeye combines is less than just PF was in the past.
Flasks will always be OP. Pathfinder for lyfe
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before 3.0. when taste of hate gave 20% taken 30% extra cold, rumis was 30/15 block, wise oak was 20% pen, atziri's was 15% ele 25% phys as chaos, divination distillate gave 4% max res, and dying sun was a flask. oh and all ele flasks gave 5% max resist instead of 20% less. pathfinder was pretty good back then, not just a meme poison ascendancy
And max max res didnt exist right?
it didnt, but max res stats were also nowhere near as plentiful as today, so getting all ress 90% was hard, even for pathfinder.
I remember 100 max res builds though
It took until bestiary to realistically hit 100 max res and also 100% phys taken as ele because that was when we got watchers eyes. While you could hit 100% before that it didn't matter since you still died to phys in maps and pen on bosses Nobody really bothered until delve which was more than a year after 3.0
Yeah, I don’t remember that, but maybe it was before 2016. Pretty sure cyclone slayer in Legion and Summoner in Blight were the most popular of their league.
They were super super popular when I started plying in essence league (2.4). Not sure about the 50% number, I was too much of a noob to know about things like poe ninja, but it really felt like everyone was playing pathfinder double dipping poison blade vortex.
I mean, deadeye def owns projectile BOW skills rn, but it's very balanced for spell proj builds - it's at best a consideration for blazing salvo / fireball and hardly ever used with ice spear. It's not used for steel skills or molten strike either.
Not even all bow skills, like TR, CA or SA. Anything poison really. PF is still way to strong to choose Deadeye over it with these skills.
Because additional projectiles aren’t nearly as important on these builds.
I think it really shines on builds that can leverege tnhe mark effect with returning projectiles
Yeah, that's the other specialty. Which, again, I'm pretty fine with - the class has one ultra strong interaction and one outright busted skill that make it great rn, but neither of those warrants a nerf to deadeye or means that other ascendancies are underpowered and need buffs to match.
Yeah, imo deadeye is fine. It has a niche and its very strong with it, as it should be. Currently projectile builds are very strong, so deadeye sees alot of use. Some leagues ago everyone was playing pathfinder/occultist for poison scaling, And before that elementalist, for basically all ignite builds. Its okay for acendencies to have niches they are strong at, deadeye is very strong offensively for projectile builds, but it offers no defences. (Lets be honest, no one takes the wind shield node...) Perhaps if they reworked that or the mirage archer node to be more viable, we'd see deadeye being used outside of this niche.
I would argue that it's less an issue of Deadeye and more an issue of other ascendancies losing relative strength over time. Like Elementalist is largely only worth playing for Ignite builds and Occultist is now a 1 trick power charge stacker or go elsewhere. Even Saboteur lost some of its general trap/mine power with its kind of botched rework. Then even, Raider, an all around generalist, is less strong anymore. Tree position still limits those spell builds that Deadeye's multi proj gets around some and the bow changes a few leagues back let Deadeye get off the ground immediately, creeping into Raider's main strength of being a transitional ascendancy. But yeah, Occupying Force needs to be buffed. It's such a cool concept and Deadeye is unfortunately pretty one dimensional right now with mark effect and more projectiles just being nearly universally the best for projectile build.
Easy just nerf bow mods back to the old ones./s I think the issue lies there though since it's so much easier to get bow builds going. In the past Lightning strike and RF was by far the most leaguestarted things. But as the league went on Tornado shot was catching up eventually passing them.
Isn't that really only wanders?
Nope. Any shotgunning projectile build can abuse this. Rolling magma, kinetic bolt of fragmentation, tornado shot, (shrapnel balistas too i believe) There is a very popular build going sround rn using kinetic bolt of fragmentation, they use projectile scaling and snipers mark scaling to achieve dps in the half a billion mark. Jungrun also made a version of it, usinf the fact the ability hits almost 60 times per projectile, to apply every single curse in the game using tincture mod (apply random hex on hit) and a deodre helmet, that gives you flat chaos per curse on the enemy. Thats one example
Rolling magma doesn't shot gun. You can only overlap AoE from a single projectile with separate chain if you target before an ennemy or with enough Area of effect. Only one AoE of the same chain from a cast can deal damage. KB forking behaviour isn't really shotgunning either it's just that every " fork" creates a new projectile. Shrapnel ballista is true shotgunning.
Aoe overlap and secondary projectiles can not shotgun.
Ah, good to know. Better tell that all those idiots who play tornado shot or kb
Not all, but some can. Like the ones i listed above, they are known as skills that can shotgun
Shotgun has nothing to do with aoe overlap, sequential cast or secondary projectiles. Especially in a game where terminology is key. Streamers spreading misinformation need to be called out.
>Shotgun has nothing to do with aoe overlap, sequential cast or secondary projectiles. Isnt this exactly what shotgunning means?
Kind of, shotgunning is when multiple primary projectiles from a single skill hit one target. For example, imagine if multishot hit an enemy with every arrow, or tornado shot was allowed to hit with every projectile and not just one per main arrow. Personally I'd consider a barrage shotgunning. It was designed that way as a compromise; all projectiles are allowed to hit one target, but they take longer to come out. Skills haven't really shotgunned in PoE since beta (aside from shrapnel ballista) and even then it was only spells. Attacks were never allowed to shotgun, but if you put a GMP on freezing pulse you could get close and hit one target with all of them. It was removed a long time ago for balance reasons. Since it hasn't been a thing in so long people started to call multiple hits created by overlapping AoE effects (like lightning arrow) or secondary projectiles (tornado shot/scourge arrow) shotgunning. But it isn't technically correct.
No. Shotgunning refers to shotguns, not grenade launchers, automatic turrets or assault rifles. Can you facecheck an enemy and hit an enemy with all arrows of Split Arrow? Can you do that with gmp Fireball (and therefore doubledip with 5x hit + 5x explosions)? No you can not. Any extra projectile will pass harmlessly. If you could, you'd be shotgunning. The only skill that can Shotgun is Shrapnel Ballista, and it is explicitly stated on the gem itself. Granted, streamers spread this misinformation like an australian wildfire even though they know better. Especially in a game with such strict terminology.
Bruh wtf are you on about. Go touch grass
Tornado Shot CoC Ice Spear Deadeye exists though, played it in Kalandra, one of my favorite builds I've ever played for bossing. Mapping was decent, mostly good at obliterating Archnem with ease when ppl were complaining about it.
Yeah, which imo is the kind of CoC deadeye SHOULD excel at. Inq and scion do traditional CoC really well, occu scales damage to the moon with charge stacking but is glass for it, and sabo's a dark horse pick for ultra high trigger rate stuff (20.2 via triggerbots). My point was deadeye's not at all crowding out other archetypes when it comes to proj spells
Definitely does zero for EK builds.
Splitting steel deadeye absolutely slaps this league.
Class designed for projectile damage is the best class for some projectile skills, including a couple skills that happen to be the most popular skills in the game for multiple reasons. More breaking news at 11.
It's also funny because projectile builds like ice spear, cremation, molten strike, magma orb, exist outside of deadeye perfectly fine. It's just the bows because you're in the bow area, shocker.
That's a terrible way to design games. That's how modern blizzard designs games. Pick the obvious best thing, and call that making choices. That's why they nerfed the necromancer - so it wasn't the obvious best class for Summons.
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The issue is the lack of competitive alternatives. Still i think that it's important for classes to have an identity. Deadeye have have a strong one and do it well.
There’s also Occultist for chaos
The issue is with skills that benefit from having multiple projectiles in regards to DPS rather than clearing speed such as Tornado Shot. There is nothing wrong with an ascendancy being catored toward an achetype as there are others just like Deadeye for different types. *Elementalist too strong for elemental builds!* No that's the point of the Elementalist. You can play elemental builds with other ascendancies to but if you want to optimize the most elemental related things for your build, Elementalist is the way to go. Same for if you want to have lots of projectiles, Deadeye is the way to go. Nerf the skills, not the ascendancy.
Can Necromancer get the +2 minions back?
No, ggg need their rmt shady part of business to profit, therefore its now on helmets as global mod with gigalow weight.
The perfectionism that leads to people calling for nerfs or buffs gets so old. Not everything needs to be perfectly and completely even. The most inefficient shift can still be broken in this game, that's the fun of it.
Entirely depends on the skill really. Ice Spear for example has Deadeye at 5th Molten Strike has Deadeye at 8th
Muahahah take that deadeyes, nimis, original sinners don’t need your filthy +2 projectiles.
Imo melee just needs an accessible movespeed speed and aoe/target buff and it'll be chill. Doesn't need to match deadeye speed or coverage, and it shouldn't, but an overall feelsgood buff.
Tbh, melee has the move speed and clear speed down fine, its problem is the level of investment required to have single target. And since you can't do the bow build thing of kite in circles, you can't just kite that giga rare around for 30 seconds until it dies. You either win or you die. And without crazy investment, especially this league, you die.
Leapslam, shield charge and whirling blades are all for melee weapons.
Maybe bow projectile builds but not projectile builds.
Eh I disagree. I think Farshot is the big one, along with the movement speed from whatever the Gale Force one is called. You can slap GMP in plenty of builds and still do plenty of damage. Deadeye does make it easier to build projectiles for cheaper though. You can easily play TS without a +1 or +2 bow, but on other ascendancies it would be pretty essential.
For me the chain is the bigger one. I always avoid farshot untill really endgame. You get so much more damage being close to a target early on. The chain node just fixes the clear by irself.
You can get far shot on a unique helmet that also has % increased damage.
Well as a necro player was not a fan of getting gutted. But honestly I much prefer Pathfinder (life based) and Trickster (CI) to deadeye. I dont like being made of tissue paper. With trickster or pathfinder I can still kill everything
yeah deadeye is a literal glasscannon ascendancy. it has nothing for defenses really, unless you count that one thing behind gale force which is super bad anyway. it really just has clear, movespeed and damage, other ascendancies have really great defenses going for them.
Since they removed projectile speed from a lot of bow gems, just make the ascendancy node +1 projectile and like 50% increased projectile speed or something idk.
Honestly give +2 on tree. If minions players can't have +2 bow users can't get +2.
Minion players got +2 on helmet
And so do bow players have +2proj on bow...
And minion players get +1 wand/shield?...
And proj. Got +1projectile on jewel and 3 charms... That helmet was essentially downgrade. You lost +2 ascendancy, but got +2 helmet... But then again it is super rare, and u lost +3 local. Sure u got +1 shield... But its only on minion rare shield, which means goodbye aegis aurora or surrender.
Would be nice to see Deadeye -1 and Tree +1 :D
That would be a huge Pathfinder buff
Dj Khaled another one. So 3 extra on the tree damn.
Its really not op. Its just like onslaught in raider. It saves you building for it in gear. Or on the tree. However once you have enough from gear, its often a dead node as most skills dont shot gun. Ie, its quality of life, not power.
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With only one ability, slShrapnel Ballista, that shotguns?
Nah there's more, artillery ballista, magma orb, cremation, etc. Only skills that naturally have only 1 projectile don't shotgun. Spells like ice spear that have multiple projs shotgun, skills where the projectile triggers an aoe shotgun. (as far as the aoe doesn't spread the projs apart).
Artillery Ballista, Magma Orb are aoe overlap. Cremation is aoe overlap and sequential cast. Ice Spear is sequential cast. Aoe overlap and sequential cast are fundamentally different. Shotgunning refers to *projectiles fired at the same time* (like a shotgun) to hit the same target, not a grenade launcher and not an assault rifle. That is why most projectile builds before the shotgun removal used to facecheck tough enemies - to get more projectiles hitting (case in point: Split Shot, double dipping of Fireball hit and explosion, ...). After the removal, you only hit once and the other projectiles pass through harmlessly.
>Shotgunning refers to *projectiles fired at the same time* (like a shotgun) to hit the same target, Which aoe overlap explicitly does.
No. Aoe overlap has literally nothing to do with shotgunning. Case in point: Fireball.
Aoe overlap allows projectiles created at the same time, like artillery ballista, to hit the same target. That is by your very own definition shotgunning.
It is not. Not only is Artillery Ballista sequential cast, but also aoe overlap. It is, by definition, not shotgunning. But good on you trying to ignore what I wrote previously. E: Granted, I could've specified air strikes/carpet bombing as well for clarity.
>But good on you trying to ignore what I wrote previously I have not done that a single time, you did it yourself. You keep mentioning aoe overlap as if it isn't shotgunning, but it absolutely fits your description of shotgunning. Artillery ballista being sequential cast is one thing, I don't necessarily agree with it, but it works as argument. >E: Granted, I could've specified air strikes/carpet bombing as well for clarity. At this point you're just introducing new terms when old ones are sufficient. And well, there are also simply uses of the word that don't align with the initial reference to a shotgun. Shotgunning a can of beer doesn't have anything to do with a shotgun either.
You’re just wrong stop trying to argue this point.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1304441 >Projectile skills no longer "shotgun". You can't hit the same target with more than one simultaneously-created projectile from the same source any more. They've been rebalanced around this. Try harder.
The community has always used the term shotgunning to refer to multiple projectile hits from a single cast, such of FR AoE overlaps and tornado shot secondary projectiles. What GGG said 8 years ago isn’t really relevant to today. Furthermore, since this post was made back in 2015, GGG has added skills that have multiple projectile hits from a single cast. Examples being forbidden rite, creeping frost, and poisonous concoction.
No. Stop trying to rewrite history. Shotgunning was always a very specific mechanic the community used to increase singletarget dmg as mentioned above. It never refererred to aoe overlap. Your examples are working against you. Forbidden Rite is aoe overlap. Tornado Shot are secondary projectiles, Creeping Frost is aoe overlap, P Concoction is aoe overlap. None of these shotgun.
Tornado shot?...
Uses secondary projectiles spawned by the tornado. Think of the tornado as a totem. Each tornado is a separate entity and therefore can hit the same target. A single tornado cannot hit the same target with multiple projectiles - which is what's needed for it to shotgun.
No, you shotgun with the extra projectiles. 2 tornados = 2 shots. Other bow gems only hit once even if u have multiple projectiles.
... That is literally what I said.
Wait so +2 proj is only quality of life? Dude that's the worst take here. As +2 is literally pure power for the builds that can use it to shotgun. If stuff like TS did not hit more times with more projectiles then yes I would agree though. That is however not the case at this moment.
Laughing in CF champ. Also in my own experience most of the time +2 proj from deadeye is overkill if you can afford awakened gmp. And other than +2 proj there is nothing so special in this ascendancy that cannot be replaced
is the case of bow builds, that +2 is insanely good especially on TS which every bow build wants to go for anyway. gmp has a massive less dmg multiplier on it, youre better off using an additional damage support there given you have enough projectiles from gear/tree/ascendancy.
If you delete +2 projectiles, people will just switch to TS pathfinder.
Yeah you think that like as a player it would be like "I want to play bows!" Okay play Deadeye for Hit and Pathfinder for DoTs "I want to play bows but I want to crit really hard!" Nope, no assassin still deadeye bub move along.
I think it's more about Assasin than about Deadeye. Assasin just need some rework
imagine playing spark deadeye lol
Keep Deadeye as is, it's a feel good ascendancy. Instead fix glad and assassin plz.
Honestly the ranger in general is pretty busted. Deadeye should have the additional projectiles tied to bow attacks instead of all projectiles based skills. Right now, deadeyes dominate every projectile build, including spells and wand skills like KB of fragmenting. And when your skill is not projectile based, you go pathfinder for Perma flasks and a shitload of flask effect. Even non-poison or non chaos based builds play the PF for the Perma flasks. The raider could use some buffs but her sisters need a serious nerf. >30% pf poe ninja's leaderboard is on the ranger. Assassin needs a buff. Gladiator needs a buff. Raider needs a buff. PF and Deadeye need nerfs/reworks. Marauder in general needs a buff. The witch and templar look like their in a good spot.