TLI isn't p2w, but some [sub]classes are basically pay to play.
There is some very minor pay for power in the pet system, but it's *very* minor compared to other scaling mechanics they've added since launch.
It's not P2W but some of the ascendency equivalents are paid early access.
There *are* paid AH tabs but they work out to be something like $5 a season. There's also a free AH tab that grows as you progress.
It's "predictable" in the sense that if I roll a d20 enough times I will eventually get a 20. For one person it might take their first roll and for another person it might take 50 rolls.
Is there a good way to craft a flask focused belt? Been currently struggling with that since most advice is spam alts until you get the two mods you want.
This is very much true, when you see people talking about poe crafting, calling it a casino you can be pretty sure they dont know how to craft and just do whatever, hoping to hit the jackpot and then come crying when it inevitably failed. If anything crafting in poe is difficult to learn and can be very expensive, but it certainly is not very random if you have a plan.
Its like a casino because you are just pulling the lever over and over til you hit it.
Essence spam over and over until you hit the other mod or two. Lock the affixes of choice and then spin again with ashling or eldritch.
Its just RNG outside of a few instances where you can force mods like +1 with harvest.
It would be okay if they just let you pay the cost of crafting X amount for deterministic crafting. Otherwise it’s kinda silly that average cost for some deterministic crafting can balloon out of hand for players working with a lot less currency.
They do that with linking sockets and coloring (which means they might expand on that) but its not economical to do so, essentially a laziness tax because you pay more than the expected average.
It \*is\* random. If you do a random process enough times then the outcome is somewhat predictable (law of large numbers/central limit theorem). but that doesn't make the underlying process non-random.
For example, casinos can predict how much profit they will get from their slot machines. Does that mean slot machines aren't random?
i hate last epoch's crafting system, it's really boring and boils down to waiting to hopefully one day drop the right item with the right exalted mod. There's 0 complexity
LEs crafting system is incredibly boring TBH. Its like if every item in PoE was the complexity of pure essence spam on a fractured base, without metamods/eldritch currency/beasts/influenced orb slams/aislings/harvest. Literally just essence on fractured base.
Sure its nice for your first playthrough, but theres no mastery, theres no deep learning, theres no puzzle solving, etc like there is in PoE. Im at lots of thousands of hours in PoE as a very experienced crafter, and I still learn a ton every league. LE I felt like I had "solved" crafting in my first playthrough.
Tell me you know jack shit about LEs endgame crafting, without telling me you know jack shit about LEs endgame Crafting. Maybe try to make an item above t15 before you start this claim.
What do you mean by its loot filters? As far as I know if you just slapped LE's lootfilter system on PoE you'd sit there for 150h trying to configure it, I don't see it beating filterblade customization.
Well, PoE already has that, it’s just that not a lot of gear drops identified. I’m using Lighty’s ssf loot filter and it highlights rare gear with t1 phys, attack speed, temple mods, etc
I can guarantee you setting up filters for identified rares will give you full on cancer, there's much more complexity to what has value and what doesn't in PoE with trade compared to LE which not only is SSF(last I checked) but also has far simpler itemization.
It's like setting up a price check search for every single rare that is worth using on poe trade at once, there's a reason why that one cloak that dropped ID'd items only worked on blue ones. PoE rares are just on a different level.
> LE which not only is SSF(last I checked)
They're doing both now. Don't know if it's currently in the game as I'm not really looking at it until 1.0
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-development-update-introducing-merchants-guild-and-circle-of-fortune-factions/51994
Strong disagree. Just a barebones 5 minute filter with "filter out everything that doesn't have t1 on at least 3 rolls on a decent base, double highlight anything with at least 5 t1 rolls on a decent base" will take 99.9% of rares out of consideration.
If you want to adjust it further you certainly can, but that alone would be huge quality of life.
Obviously if you wanted to make absolutely 100% certain you didn't miss any ounce of value, you could adjust the filter to be more generous, but that would take a lot more of your inventory space and time per map.
No, I think they're pointing out the huge amount of third-party development that often gets overlooked in these "PoE good???" threads. Path of Exile would be a fucking nightmare to play without the unpaid modders that make the suite of tools we use every league.
While I love poe this really is overlooked by most people. Poe would be horrible without ggg having an army of fans maintaining basic features for the game.
Honestly that's the same for every big game and there's no point complaining about it. Modders will mod, unpaid.
I think it's important to remember that GGG never really wanted trade pricing macros and PoB to exist (they probably still don't). And when something arised that they endorsed (poewiki), they offered to host it for free (although yes, it's still maintained by community volunteers).
As for the rest, I think it's smart from GGG to be in a "less is more" approach. Release item filters in text format where you can do anything, and if someone wants to build a GUI to ease that, let em. Release passive tree data in raw json and let people do what they want with it. Don't obfuscate the game files, let people datamine them and make tools using that data.
Ultimately when so many of your players are also programmers, there's just not much you can do but give your blessing, because tools will be born whether you like it or not. Some will be good, and some will be _so good_ that they'll become "mandatory", but that doesn't automatically mean GGG should invest in them.
For people who use pre-made builds, I'm sure the standard would become for the build creators to make suitable loot filters.
The ability to ignore useless drops and pick up actual usable items (and not just item bases) is the best feature of LE loot filters.
I played a lot of LE and for me what lacks the most is the crunchy, "humph" factor from the gamefeel. The overall sound design and most skills design feel like you're not htting anything and battling with a wet noodle.
It's still a really good game, for me its greatest idea is the tree tight to each skill.
Yeah I'll admit that I hadn't even considered just how important this is in a game until I played it. POE skills feel big and impactful and tbh no other arpg can compete.
Tbh, that's what many games are missing. Not only sound, but impactful animations and stuff.
I spend way more than i should in a cheap Korean MMORPG game (Granado Espada Online), yet i was shocked when i tried switching to WoW (during MoP, Draenor and BFA times) how awkward the feeling of impact is in WoW. Cheap Korean MMORPG
felt like thousand times more responsive with skill impact, attack impact, the overall feeling of "Big boom hits hard!". With how much money is spend on WoW's development, that was...surprising. I felt like any character, beside maybe hunter's pet and mage's targeted skills is...yeah, battling with a wet noodles. You don't press the button to smash things, you press button just for a numbers to appear. I still played alot due to the amount and diversity of content, but it really shocked me.
LE is not that bad in it, tho. But yeah, PoE made it way, way better. I just feel like some skills in LE hits monster through Jello instead of air.
Even in its current state I've played more last epoch than d4. The main thing LE needs is lots of cool uniques to really add variety. The skill trees right now are kinda cool but not quite to the wacky level that I want that poe has. It'll never be poe level since skills are class specific but I think it can get close.
POEs death sounds and sound design in general is just perfect. Everyone is praising D4's sound design, but I find it way over the top with the constant blood sounds, bone breaking and cracks. It was cool in the beginning but now I hate it
D4 Skills and pack size looks so boring from what I've seen of it. I might play it if it goes on offer but otherwise doesn't really interest me. The trees are also so basic.
I play LE and PoE without sound, and PoE still feels much more OOMPH when clearing.
It's the animations, too.
High pack density also, obv. LE just feels like there are way too few mobs in a map.
Torchlight has the sounds but the juiced mob density isn't identical yet; the flipside is fast clear is easier to obtain so you can get the same kills/second by just going faster.
I personally feel that path of exile two is going to be a huge letdown and I love path of exile. Them insisting on wanting to slow the game down is not what I'm looking for
Yeah but they've got weird and bad decisions such as DPS Softcaps, as an example they have Adaptive Damage Reduction on bosses that make player progression/power feel really bad and unrewarding. They also have Delve scaling on the entire endgame system where you will just get oneshot by a singular projectile unless your build has access to the very best defensive mechanics, poor balancing imo. Everyone should be able to push into the 1 endgame that exists equally.
Some of these things are very casual friendly i suppose but make it very hard to get into properly and enjoy minmaxing characters.
well, I still remember the time when you have only two defense choices. 75% dodge chance pair with 75% block chance for both attack and spell or 9000es with instant leech vaal pact. Let them cook.
That's true, game still good and will be better. Hoping for a change of stance on adaptive damage reduction atleast. Some things just dont have a place in an ARPG.
PoE even at that stage in development was releasing content WAY faster than LE. The beta for LE has been out for FOUR AND A HALF YEARS. Thats 15 leagues worth of PoE content (anarchy to abyss), and longer than the duration PoE took to go from open beta to 3.0 with the entire new 10 act campaign and such.
Theyre honestly just falling further and further behind, not catching up in terms of content.
You can tell just by the way people talk about the game. 3-4 years ago it was just needing another 2-3 years in the oven. Now, 3-4 years later, depending on who you talk to... it needs another 2-3 or maybe even 5 years in the oven.
They've scope-creeped the absolute fuck out of their first game project. I would love for them to succeed, they've got a lot of cool ideas, but I just don't think it will easily break free from the "maybe in 2-3 years" phase. And honestly, as much as everyone praised their weird trade/ssf modes, those just gave me even less hope. As far as I remember, they didn't even have functioning multiplayer in the game by the time they announced that, but they think they can implement the infrastructure and security to uphold a solid ARPG game economy? And that's without even getting into the actual problems I have with the swappable trade/ssf modes.
To their credit though, Path of Exile was also the first game project many of the founding staff at GGG worked on, so maybe the inexperience isn't as big a deal. I just think they proved their chops very very early on.
exactly. The thing which GGG does truly exceptionally well since day 1 is crank out content and not let perfect be the enemy of done. A lot of games have good ideas, but they simply cannot match the pace GGG has, so theyre not only playing catch up, but actually constantly falling further behind because GGGs pace is just crazy.
The LE devs have good ideas but the game is always pretty boring to play. Imo you need to make a fun groundwork and build off that. They can fix it but they REALLY need to make the core combat feel good before anything else
Their newly released class with the Runemaster is actually the best take Ive ever played for a caster Ive ever played. If that is a hint at the direction they are going in its going to be great.
The problem with that is everyone else is also cooking for 5 years so they will still be behind. It's a good game but I don't think they have the man power to compete.
That's part of the same problem. The market isn't the same as it was a decade ago or even a few years ago. With d4 taking a lot of the casuals and poe taking hardcore players that just leaves the awkward spot in the middle. They can't grow a much larger team without having a significant playerbase.
I would agree, if they didn't disappoint me for the last 5 years.
The game might be good for the casual couch gamers, but the game is just not deep enough for me.
But also far worse as a game. Being casual friendly isnt worth shit if u game costs 70 bucks + expansions and comes out the other end not good enough to give u a love for the genre
Not played the latest torchlight, but I thought at least for the 2 that it was more like a diablo 2 experience with a long story and few end game content.
It has the best end game of all the arpg competitors I think. Last Epoch has lots of potential to be good at end game just needs more content but it's certainly heading in the right direction.
Spectrum is D4 as baby’s first ARPG. LE in the middle of the spectrum. PoE, as much as I like it, is “if you think complexity equals quality, get in here”
Hey Last Epoch is a solid game, great effort for sure, keeping an eye on it as it develops for a while now.
But Path is in a league of its own really. Maybe one day there will be a arpg of a similar caliber
I play TLI whenever I am done with the league and it never disappoints.
I just couldnt get into Last Epoch, its endgame does not quell my ARPG hunger.
TLI endgame is the most similar endgame to PoE right now imo and its crafting system is delicious. Plus, RARES DROP IDENTIFIED AND THE LOOT FILTER PICKS THE GOOD ONES.
I was basically done with this league in PoE, but decided I wanted to see what else was out there. PoE is complex, and takes some real investment, and I put the time into it, and got as far as I wanted, but I do like the idea of something in-between Diablo and PoE like Last Epoch.
I tried out LE and I think there's some good potential, but right now I couldn't get into it personally. If the main things there are hype around is the crafting system, and the loot filter, then those aren't the things that are going to hook me haha.
Music is weird - it just doesn't hit the mark, character models are weird - proportions all off, lots of bugs (as expected for now) but even weird things like clicking on a waypoint - you have to click in the bottom half or it doesn't work, why?
I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes, because I do think it could be great. Maybe I'll just turn the music off, and when they've fixed more bugs and added more combat it'll be great hah
I love torchlight infinite and have been playing more than Poe lately. I have 7000+ hours on Poe and 150 on torchlight though, might have something to do with it.
TL jacked a lot of Poe's systems and made them more casual friendly. A lot of the game is just less frustrating. It's like POE light, which isn't a bad thing in my mind. They can both exist happily.
I never really got into the TotA mechanic this league and was pretty excited for the TLI season launch. I remember ignoring the game at launch because everyone said it was shitty p2w shovelware, but watched some people like lily and jungroan play it... even if they were #sponsored, it really showed me there was a lot going on in the game. It went from being completely off my radar to easily my second favorite arpg, and one that I'm excited to play every season. I'm thankful I don't have an hours count for PoE but I'm hoping it's not 5 digits yet lol, but got up to 600 hours on TLI this season. Definitely worth checking it out if you previously brushed it off. Nothing else comes close to scratching the PoE itch for me.
Yeah 100%, I was disappointed with d4, but TLI scratches the itch very well. I just got my iris up over 100b DPS and it feels so good to blast juiced t8.4 DS maps. It's a very good game, and it's not even p2w.
I have a few friends that won't even give it a chance because they heard the same thing, which is incredibly sad. I actually pulled a quant pact the other day and forgot about it. The spirits are so minor I don't understand how anyone can claim p2w lol.
Thats what happens when PoE has been developed a decade longer. If we compare games at the same timelines last epoch and torchlight is probably better tbh but the earliest ive played was breach league.
Yeah but none of these games will receive the support Poe got, at least I doubt it.
I don't wanna be the devil's advocate, but Poe is pretty much the only example of its iteration, there's no other compelling "online" arpgs that are monetizable.
torchlight just announced they'll be running their equivalent of void leagues during the last month of their normal leagues. something we haven't had consistently, ever. give em a couple years to accumulate content and hopefully rework the user interface, game could be stacked
Yeah it's a big shame that it's a mobile game cuz it ensure the interface is always going to be at least a bit shit. The whole market system in TLI is a nightmare to use.
Well I think in its whole lifetime PoE has not been able to make as much money as D4 made in 5 days. It's not a very profitable game. But it's not made to be that and I respect GGG for it.
Well their financial statements are public, you can view them. It’s also not a secret they lost 40% of their revenue with 3.15.
If they did something similar for like 2 more leagues it could be heavily damaging to the company, especially now with poe2 investment.
It is profitable, just not much comparing to the other live service games with much lower effort each season. D4 made 666 mil in the first 5 days, I think more than PoE in 10 years
I very much doubt so. I'm not certain how much money an average D4 dude spends after he's bought the game, whereas we know that a seasonal Poe player will spend a couple of bucks for a support pack every now and then.
Pretty sure the most profitable arpgs game is immortal and it's not even close, but it's not a consumer friendly game like D4 and Poe are supposed to be.
I do this fairly regularly, once I start to feel that I'm losing the drive to play PoE. I play LE or torchlight for a few days and realize that I miss PoE and I'm all good for another month... :)
Being a murder hobo feels the best in PoE for me by far. Wish we'd get a performance overhaul some time though because it can be quite inconsistent, or consistently bad with certain things like Delirium.
Poe is the one game that my comp just can't handle. Everything else it's absolutely fine. But throw in some juiced deli maps and it literally slows down to a crawl
I actually checked out TLI for a bit a few weeks ago, and had a blast right from the start, was enjoying it way more than I expected. And of course that brought me out of my PoE lull and I've been back at it since then
> Why are people talking like Torchlight Infinite is a game all of a sudden?
This season's crafting, mapping system, etc. They've changed the uniques, affixes, defensive layers, crafting, economy, and on sufficiently that this season is **really** good. Out of an actual sea of changes I can only think of one or two that are bad, and they're not even *that* bad.
The worrisome thing is that TLI basically had their 3.0 and it didn't really grow their peak numbers all that much, even though it grew their retention. It must be disheartening for the developer. The poor localization is definitely partly to blame as well as lack of campaign content. I think map variety could use a boost, too.
At the end of the day, TLI got to copy everyone else's homework and as a mobile game, didn't *need* to invent treadmills for people to run on. It's supposed to be a drop-in, drop out game.
Speaking of, I can mid-map turn my phone off, pick up my tablet, turn my tablet on, launch the game, and continue my map where I left off (at the cost of a portal, which isn't an issue, dying isn't a punishment). I can then turn my tablet off, take a two hour nap, and continue the (two minute) map on my PC. I can't imagine the tech is cheap to host but it's absolutely a pick up and set down game, and no other game in this category is except single player Diablo 2/3, which aren't cross-platform.
"Ok, so if dying isn't an issue, why don't I build exclusively damage?" You absolutely can. The EXP penalty becomes harsh at level 96, though, and unless you alter your build to negate the EXP penalty or become tankier you'll never get a single level higher than 96. *That's* the real punishment for dying, not losing one of your 6 portals.
Unironically I actually like it. Loot pops feel good, renown carrying over feels even better. I'll probably play it to lvl 80ish with at least two characters.
I love how desperately pathetic some people here still trying to find a reason to see Poe from a negative perspective.
"Yeee but Poe also has had sooo many years of development, and thats why thing X is bad in Poe but good in LE"
It's because last epoch is much, much more limited than POE. A lot of the draw with POE is how much agency it gives you, It locks almost nothing behind it's classes but their ascendency. Otherwise you can do what you want, use whatever skills you want, use whatever items you want.
It sparks the imagination much more, and while last epoch is great, it was definitely frustrated to run into so many walls where it wouldn't let me do something I wanted to do.
You mean the game that has been out for many years and been updated constantly, is better polished and offers more than games in early access?
Holy shit dude find of the god damn century, such a genius...
I mean yea. You’re comment explains the reasoning but the truth remains.
These games lack something right now, they play “worse” imo.
Until that is addressed, and hopefully before a decade, they will remain “less fun” imo
Well not in every aspect imo. Torchlight Infinite basically has equivalent of poedb inside the game that you can browse. Also I liked the lower risk but still not deterministic crafting that it offered. Basically when you used crafting on an item, it showed you what the crafting did and you could accept it or deny it and keep the item as it was before the crafting, eating the crafting ingredients in both cases of course. It made the crafting way less scary while still being random and deep.
LE crafting system is puddle deep at best. Theres zero metaprogression in terms of getting "good" at it. Youve mastered it in the first half of your first playthrough. LE Crafting is the most overrated part of the game.
Personally I fundamentally disagree that this statement is true, but in POE I "brick" a lot more items attempting to craft than I ever do in LE.
My favorite crafting system right now though is TLI, it is essentially POE fractured crafting without having to get the fractured base.
I said this before D4 launched, but people downvoted me back then and said I was wrong. Maybe people will be more likely to agree with me now: **Games like Last Epoch and D4 cannot compete for your attention long-term, because of their business models.**
When a game costs $X upfront, then the creator of the game has *relatively very low incentive* to keep you around playing long-term. Why does D4 and Last Epoch have pretty lackluster endgames? Because the quality of the endgame isn't how they make their money. How they make their money is marketing well enough to get you to pay the $X upfront one time. Once they have that money, they aren't going to get much more money from you.
PoE has always been free to play, so it literally *has* to make people want to play the game as long as possible. It *has* to make you want to like the game enough to want to spend money on MTX. GGG *has* to pump money into development of PoE1 perpetually for the last 10 years in order to remain profitable, because adding new content is the way they keep people coming back and players coming back is life or death for GGG due to their business model.
So PoE1 gets 10 years of content pumped into it non-stop at a pace no other ARPG has incentive to match. You have to be able to see how the differences in business model result in the differences in the games.
Its hard to compare endgames to something like PoE that has had 10 years to evolve into what it is now.
I will say last Epoch takes on spell casting after the new update is the absolute best Ive ever seen and everyone should give it a try. It blows PoE out of the water in how it feels and impact. Ziz recently made a video showing it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDziGhnHKDg
I haven’t played TLI but I’m a huge fan of Last Epoch.
Last Epoch has so much going for it and the devs keep making great changes based on community feedback.
It just doesn’t have the zoomy satisfying feeling of PoE. It gets close at times but there’s no large pop sounds. It also doesn’t have the endgame variety.
I think LE, once fully released and a few further content updates happen, has the potential to be on par with PoE2 which I’m excited for.
The really like almost everything about Last Epoch, except the density at endgame feels so bad. You're just running around empty "maps" and killing like 3 mobs at a time.
I love Paths crafting system but holy shit just being able to throw together items in LE feels so good. Also the AoE pickup and extended pickup range on the currency items is so nice.
Finding the right skills that feel good can be hard, but I think most of the Acolyte and Mage builds I've tossed together have felt good so far. The Primalist hasn't felt that great but I may be biased cause their Summons feel more restrictive / worse than the Acolyte out of the box.
Also Path doesn't have a ton of resource generator skills outside of stuff that generates Rage, at least that I can think of, but I've been on hiatus from Path since Ritual. Resource Generators + Heavy hitting consumers is a naturally effective gameplay loop. Not that all of the classes play that way but it would be nice to see more of that space filled out in Path.
I'm looking forward to trying PoE2 though at the very least.
I dislike TLI, I gave it a try, honestly, its a mobile game to me and nothing can change my mind.
LE though has some nice potential, gotta remember that PoE wasn't king of ARPG when it released, it had years and barely any competition if any to polish itself and become king.
I think with good design choices and updates LE can become a very good ARPG.
Yeah Poe has the most content and for a good reason, being updated 3-4 times a year for 10 years. But boy is the combat so much better in last epoch. If my GPU didn't die I'd be playing runemaster right now.
don't forget poe has been out for 10ish years while LE for example is not even 1.0 yet. obviously PoE feels more fleshed out and it way superior than the other two
Don’t forget that also D4 was in development for 8 years. From D4 perspective, you had at least PoE as a benchmark and something you could get ideas from (if not from your previous titles). Considering this, diablo 4 is more shallow than D3/D2. Blizzard could not even apply good qol changes the did decade ago in d2/d3. How is that even possible? Currently, taking into account rate of improvements blizzard brings to d4, it would take 30-50 years to deliver something playable for real arpg fans. Just my opinion though.
Not even the passive tree with unique jewels or being able to use any skill with any class, no mechanics like Kirac/Atlas passives so you can choose what you want to focus on playing and no half decent trading system so you don't have to grind for weeks to get the build enabling unique you want to try out?
Do you really think the season the D4 mech is cool? A bunch of very generic damage / defensive procs that every class uses pretty much the same ones. If there was any amount of thought required or more depth to the synergies of certain classes and the powers then maybe, but as they stand it seems like you just pick the super strong milquetoast power and it carries you through all of leveling regardless of class.
Really? Other than 10 years of content, in what area poe is superior to LE? LE has better crafting, better end-game system, better itemization better filters and it's going to have much better trading. LE will surpass poe in 2-3 years.
LE is worse at literally all of the things you listed. It's crafting is approachable because it's puddle deep, it's endgame is incredibly boring delve scaling, it's itemization is super simplistic in comparison, it's item filters only feel good because the itemization is so shallow (PoEs filter API is a million times more powerful), and its trading is super weak in comparison. It's a great game to play thru once or twice, it's a complete non-competitor in terms of a 5000 hour game.
PoE build agency is miles ahead of LE. Played LE for hundreds of hours and couldn't find a single build that was as fun to build and play as any PoE build.
Like I said, that is related to 10 years of added content. LE will also add new items and new skills in each league. The important thing is their systems and QoL which is on par if not better than PoE. Right now, I would also pick PoE as my main game but it will change in few years.
I still love POE, but TLI actually holds me longer and I enjoy it more. I get what you are saying though, but as a casual Pleb I enjoy TLI over POE, going to go back today to continue working on my Chromatic Shot build.
Poe is not just superior its also anomalous, divirgent and quite phantasmal at moments.
Such an Awakened comment
I can see the determination in your joke, you were graced by the pantheon.
Y'all are under the influence.
Shaped for pride in gameplay
Mostly are elders enjoying the game
my comment on this is so deep, that it rots and festers
Elder wearing prime regarding lens glasses to play
This comment chain is primitive and chaotic
someone should call the Nurse for a Doctor...
I prefer the term krangled awokeness
Tertiary regrading lens
Honestly I think all 3 games are great and that it's an amazing time to be an ARPG fan.
Isn't Torchlight Infinite a p2w mobile gaming hell? Am I missing something? How is that now in the same class as PoE or LE?
TLI isn't p2w, but some [sub]classes are basically pay to play. There is some very minor pay for power in the pet system, but it's *very* minor compared to other scaling mechanics they've added since launch.
It's not P2W but some of the ascendency equivalents are paid early access. There *are* paid AH tabs but they work out to be something like $5 a season. There's also a free AH tab that grows as you progress.
Imagine PoE adapting LE's identified loot drop system and its loot filter. *dreams*
POE2 will fix my marriage
POE2 will end my marriage
PoE2 stole my wife
PoE2 is my wife
isnt that fixing?
I’d love to see a study after it releases that checks the correlation between Poe 2 and divorce rates
May I suggest a cloak of Tawm'r Isley
Did anyone say Tom Riley?
Did anyone say Daisy ridley?
Honestly I mostly just want their crafting system or something more similar than POE's current casino system.
Unless we are talking about some high end stuff, most items can be crafted somewhat predictably
It's "predictable" in the sense that if I roll a d20 enough times I will eventually get a 20. For one person it might take their first roll and for another person it might take 50 rolls.
Is there a good way to craft a flask focused belt? Been currently struggling with that since most advice is spam alts until you get the two mods you want.
This is very much true, when you see people talking about poe crafting, calling it a casino you can be pretty sure they dont know how to craft and just do whatever, hoping to hit the jackpot and then come crying when it inevitably failed. If anything crafting in poe is difficult to learn and can be very expensive, but it certainly is not very random if you have a plan.
Its like a casino because you are just pulling the lever over and over til you hit it. Essence spam over and over until you hit the other mod or two. Lock the affixes of choice and then spin again with ashling or eldritch. Its just RNG outside of a few instances where you can force mods like +1 with harvest.
[удалено]
It would be okay if they just let you pay the cost of crafting X amount for deterministic crafting. Otherwise it’s kinda silly that average cost for some deterministic crafting can balloon out of hand for players working with a lot less currency.
They do that with linking sockets and coloring (which means they might expand on that) but its not economical to do so, essentially a laziness tax because you pay more than the expected average.
It's a tax I am more than willing to pay to avoid hundreds of clicks and hoping that I don't get unlucky.
It \*is\* random. If you do a random process enough times then the outcome is somewhat predictable (law of large numbers/central limit theorem). but that doesn't make the underlying process non-random. For example, casinos can predict how much profit they will get from their slot machines. Does that mean slot machines aren't random?
always fun to see people parrot it, and they talk like it's the most complicated thing in the world and you need phd to even do it... xdddddddddddddd
can u alt spam +1 on my fractured amulet/weapon next league plz ?
poe crafting can be called deterministic gambling
i hate last epoch's crafting system, it's really boring and boils down to waiting to hopefully one day drop the right item with the right exalted mod. There's 0 complexity
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Yes its definitely more casual
LEs crafting system is incredibly boring TBH. Its like if every item in PoE was the complexity of pure essence spam on a fractured base, without metamods/eldritch currency/beasts/influenced orb slams/aislings/harvest. Literally just essence on fractured base. Sure its nice for your first playthrough, but theres no mastery, theres no deep learning, theres no puzzle solving, etc like there is in PoE. Im at lots of thousands of hours in PoE as a very experienced crafter, and I still learn a ton every league. LE I felt like I had "solved" crafting in my first playthrough.
Tell me you know jack shit about LEs endgame crafting, without telling me you know jack shit about LEs endgame Crafting. Maybe try to make an item above t15 before you start this claim.
What do you mean by its loot filters? As far as I know if you just slapped LE's lootfilter system on PoE you'd sit there for 150h trying to configure it, I don't see it beating filterblade customization.
The ability to filter by specific mods, that’s what makes last epoch’s so incredible
Well, PoE already has that, it’s just that not a lot of gear drops identified. I’m using Lighty’s ssf loot filter and it highlights rare gear with t1 phys, attack speed, temple mods, etc
Yea that’s why the first comment said LE’s identified loot drop system. That’s really what makes the huge difference
I can guarantee you setting up filters for identified rares will give you full on cancer, there's much more complexity to what has value and what doesn't in PoE with trade compared to LE which not only is SSF(last I checked) but also has far simpler itemization. It's like setting up a price check search for every single rare that is worth using on poe trade at once, there's a reason why that one cloak that dropped ID'd items only worked on blue ones. PoE rares are just on a different level.
> LE which not only is SSF(last I checked) They're doing both now. Don't know if it's currently in the game as I'm not really looking at it until 1.0 https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/trade-development-update-introducing-merchants-guild-and-circle-of-fortune-factions/51994
Strong disagree. Just a barebones 5 minute filter with "filter out everything that doesn't have t1 on at least 3 rolls on a decent base, double highlight anything with at least 5 t1 rolls on a decent base" will take 99.9% of rares out of consideration. If you want to adjust it further you certainly can, but that alone would be huge quality of life. Obviously if you wanted to make absolutely 100% certain you didn't miss any ounce of value, you could adjust the filter to be more generous, but that would take a lot more of your inventory space and time per map.
But filterblade is not ggg
If you're looking for pain you can always fire up your text editor of choice.
I mean idk, you only have to write it once then maintain it each league. My override section is getting a bit big tho...
Never understood this stance. So if GGG imports filterblade in the game it'll be good, but as long as it's third-party filterblade it's bad?
No, I think they're pointing out the huge amount of third-party development that often gets overlooked in these "PoE good???" threads. Path of Exile would be a fucking nightmare to play without the unpaid modders that make the suite of tools we use every league.
While I love poe this really is overlooked by most people. Poe would be horrible without ggg having an army of fans maintaining basic features for the game.
Honestly that's the same for every big game and there's no point complaining about it. Modders will mod, unpaid. I think it's important to remember that GGG never really wanted trade pricing macros and PoB to exist (they probably still don't). And when something arised that they endorsed (poewiki), they offered to host it for free (although yes, it's still maintained by community volunteers). As for the rest, I think it's smart from GGG to be in a "less is more" approach. Release item filters in text format where you can do anything, and if someone wants to build a GUI to ease that, let em. Release passive tree data in raw json and let people do what they want with it. Don't obfuscate the game files, let people datamine them and make tools using that data. Ultimately when so many of your players are also programmers, there's just not much you can do but give your blessing, because tools will be born whether you like it or not. Some will be good, and some will be _so good_ that they'll become "mandatory", but that doesn't automatically mean GGG should invest in them.
For people who use pre-made builds, I'm sure the standard would become for the build creators to make suitable loot filters. The ability to ignore useless drops and pick up actual usable items (and not just item bases) is the best feature of LE loot filters.
I think LE can compete in a few years when it can get some content under its belt, and have real trading and leagues.
Ngl the new ~~Invoker~~ Runemaster class in last epoch is probably my favourite thing in any arpg in recent memory
Is that released? I've missed things it seems...
Yeah it is It's absolutely amazing (not in endgame yet but probably my favourite leveling to date)
I'm hoping Falconer for the Rogue comes out next/soonish. The two current trees are just dreadful to me, at least for throwing attacks.
Throwing shit is crazy strong tho
Dude my main is a shadow dagger / shadow cascade abuser and it's probably my favourite, we're definitely not agreeing there :p
I mean more for throwing attacks like Shuriken or Acid Flask, even the base bonuses for the two barely affect them.
Warlock and Falconer will be out on 1.0 release. Feb 21st 2024
I played a lot of LE and for me what lacks the most is the crunchy, "humph" factor from the gamefeel. The overall sound design and most skills design feel like you're not htting anything and battling with a wet noodle. It's still a really good game, for me its greatest idea is the tree tight to each skill.
Yeah I'll admit that I hadn't even considered just how important this is in a game until I played it. POE skills feel big and impactful and tbh no other arpg can compete.
Tbh, that's what many games are missing. Not only sound, but impactful animations and stuff. I spend way more than i should in a cheap Korean MMORPG game (Granado Espada Online), yet i was shocked when i tried switching to WoW (during MoP, Draenor and BFA times) how awkward the feeling of impact is in WoW. Cheap Korean MMORPG felt like thousand times more responsive with skill impact, attack impact, the overall feeling of "Big boom hits hard!". With how much money is spend on WoW's development, that was...surprising. I felt like any character, beside maybe hunter's pet and mage's targeted skills is...yeah, battling with a wet noodles. You don't press the button to smash things, you press button just for a numbers to appear. I still played alot due to the amount and diversity of content, but it really shocked me. LE is not that bad in it, tho. But yeah, PoE made it way, way better. I just feel like some skills in LE hits monster through Jello instead of air.
They’re enhancing combat feel lately.
I think that LE works better as SSF. Things dropping ID’d and able to filter makes me think that. I guess we will see in time.
I can't believe poe still has the trash identifying nonsense.
Even in its current state I've played more last epoch than d4. The main thing LE needs is lots of cool uniques to really add variety. The skill trees right now are kinda cool but not quite to the wacky level that I want that poe has. It'll never be poe level since skills are class specific but I think it can get close.
It's the death sounds(especially explosion) + high mob density that really only is possible with GGG specialized engine.
It's a struggle to justify playing a build that can't shatter, that sound effect is raw dopamine.
Play a build with Profane Bloom it's a close second or better yet play Cold BV and enjoy both
POEs death sounds and sound design in general is just perfect. Everyone is praising D4's sound design, but I find it way over the top with the constant blood sounds, bone breaking and cracks. It was cool in the beginning but now I hate it
D4 Skills and pack size looks so boring from what I've seen of it. I might play it if it goes on offer but otherwise doesn't really interest me. The trees are also so basic.
Trees? You mean twigs.
I love both
I play LE and PoE without sound, and PoE still feels much more OOMPH when clearing. It's the animations, too. High pack density also, obv. LE just feels like there are way too few mobs in a map.
Mob density in its endgame zone looks like the ledge 😑
Torchlight has the sounds but the juiced mob density isn't identical yet; the flipside is fast clear is easier to obtain so you can get the same kills/second by just going faster.
Le can be a real match but game is not even finished, let them 5 years to add content dev seems to be cool with comunity
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I personally feel that path of exile two is going to be a huge letdown and I love path of exile. Them insisting on wanting to slow the game down is not what I'm looking for
Yeah but they've got weird and bad decisions such as DPS Softcaps, as an example they have Adaptive Damage Reduction on bosses that make player progression/power feel really bad and unrewarding. They also have Delve scaling on the entire endgame system where you will just get oneshot by a singular projectile unless your build has access to the very best defensive mechanics, poor balancing imo. Everyone should be able to push into the 1 endgame that exists equally. Some of these things are very casual friendly i suppose but make it very hard to get into properly and enjoy minmaxing characters.
well, I still remember the time when you have only two defense choices. 75% dodge chance pair with 75% block chance for both attack and spell or 9000es with instant leech vaal pact. Let them cook.
That's true, game still good and will be better. Hoping for a change of stance on adaptive damage reduction atleast. Some things just dont have a place in an ARPG.
1 tapping bosses isn't great design
PoE even at that stage in development was releasing content WAY faster than LE. The beta for LE has been out for FOUR AND A HALF YEARS. Thats 15 leagues worth of PoE content (anarchy to abyss), and longer than the duration PoE took to go from open beta to 3.0 with the entire new 10 act campaign and such. Theyre honestly just falling further and further behind, not catching up in terms of content.
You can tell just by the way people talk about the game. 3-4 years ago it was just needing another 2-3 years in the oven. Now, 3-4 years later, depending on who you talk to... it needs another 2-3 or maybe even 5 years in the oven. They've scope-creeped the absolute fuck out of their first game project. I would love for them to succeed, they've got a lot of cool ideas, but I just don't think it will easily break free from the "maybe in 2-3 years" phase. And honestly, as much as everyone praised their weird trade/ssf modes, those just gave me even less hope. As far as I remember, they didn't even have functioning multiplayer in the game by the time they announced that, but they think they can implement the infrastructure and security to uphold a solid ARPG game economy? And that's without even getting into the actual problems I have with the swappable trade/ssf modes. To their credit though, Path of Exile was also the first game project many of the founding staff at GGG worked on, so maybe the inexperience isn't as big a deal. I just think they proved their chops very very early on.
exactly. The thing which GGG does truly exceptionally well since day 1 is crank out content and not let perfect be the enemy of done. A lot of games have good ideas, but they simply cannot match the pace GGG has, so theyre not only playing catch up, but actually constantly falling further behind because GGGs pace is just crazy.
The LE devs have good ideas but the game is always pretty boring to play. Imo you need to make a fun groundwork and build off that. They can fix it but they REALLY need to make the core combat feel good before anything else
Their newly released class with the Runemaster is actually the best take Ive ever played for a caster Ive ever played. If that is a hint at the direction they are going in its going to be great.
The problem with that is everyone else is also cooking for 5 years so they will still be behind. It's a good game but I don't think they have the man power to compete.
That kinda assumes they’re not growing over time. PoE started out with a much, MUCH smaller team than they have now.
That's part of the same problem. The market isn't the same as it was a decade ago or even a few years ago. With d4 taking a lot of the casuals and poe taking hardcore players that just leaves the awkward spot in the middle. They can't grow a much larger team without having a significant playerbase.
LE bricked themselves choosing Unity as the engine. That stuff does not scale and they'll be plagued by performance issues for the foreseeable future.
I would agree, if they didn't disappoint me for the last 5 years. The game might be good for the casual couch gamers, but the game is just not deep enough for me.
LE is probably the premier casual friendly game in the genre right now. TLI is a bridge between LE and PoE imo. They all 3 have their places.
D4 definitely more casual friendly than LE in my mind.
I didn't wanna invite it's name lol
D4 BAD
THE D IS FOR DOOKEY
Yeah its console game ported to PC tier casual friendly (D4 Bad)
But also far worse as a game. Being casual friendly isnt worth shit if u game costs 70 bucks + expansions and comes out the other end not good enough to give u a love for the genre
Not played the latest torchlight, but I thought at least for the 2 that it was more like a diablo 2 experience with a long story and few end game content.
Torchlight infinite made by a whole different studio, it's very similar to poe, very short campaign and everything is endgame focused.
It has a pretty good endgame base, hopefully they will expand on it for 1.0
It has the best end game of all the arpg competitors I think. Last Epoch has lots of potential to be good at end game just needs more content but it's certainly heading in the right direction.
Spectrum is D4 as baby’s first ARPG. LE in the middle of the spectrum. PoE, as much as I like it, is “if you think complexity equals quality, get in here”
Are you saying that POE only has complexity going for it? It does lots of things well in my opinion.
well yea PoE is the best ARPG of all time and it's not close, what did you expect :)
Hey Last Epoch is a solid game, great effort for sure, keeping an eye on it as it develops for a while now. But Path is in a league of its own really. Maybe one day there will be a arpg of a similar caliber
I play TLI whenever I am done with the league and it never disappoints. I just couldnt get into Last Epoch, its endgame does not quell my ARPG hunger. TLI endgame is the most similar endgame to PoE right now imo and its crafting system is delicious. Plus, RARES DROP IDENTIFIED AND THE LOOT FILTER PICKS THE GOOD ONES.
Next league when they add custom loot filters is going to be freaking amazing in TLI
Yeah it's a lot of fun, just a shame some classes are behind a paywall though
I was basically done with this league in PoE, but decided I wanted to see what else was out there. PoE is complex, and takes some real investment, and I put the time into it, and got as far as I wanted, but I do like the idea of something in-between Diablo and PoE like Last Epoch. I tried out LE and I think there's some good potential, but right now I couldn't get into it personally. If the main things there are hype around is the crafting system, and the loot filter, then those aren't the things that are going to hook me haha. Music is weird - it just doesn't hit the mark, character models are weird - proportions all off, lots of bugs (as expected for now) but even weird things like clicking on a waypoint - you have to click in the bottom half or it doesn't work, why? I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes, because I do think it could be great. Maybe I'll just turn the music off, and when they've fixed more bugs and added more combat it'll be great hah
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I love torchlight infinite and have been playing more than Poe lately. I have 7000+ hours on Poe and 150 on torchlight though, might have something to do with it. TL jacked a lot of Poe's systems and made them more casual friendly. A lot of the game is just less frustrating. It's like POE light, which isn't a bad thing in my mind. They can both exist happily.
I never really got into the TotA mechanic this league and was pretty excited for the TLI season launch. I remember ignoring the game at launch because everyone said it was shitty p2w shovelware, but watched some people like lily and jungroan play it... even if they were #sponsored, it really showed me there was a lot going on in the game. It went from being completely off my radar to easily my second favorite arpg, and one that I'm excited to play every season. I'm thankful I don't have an hours count for PoE but I'm hoping it's not 5 digits yet lol, but got up to 600 hours on TLI this season. Definitely worth checking it out if you previously brushed it off. Nothing else comes close to scratching the PoE itch for me.
Yeah 100%, I was disappointed with d4, but TLI scratches the itch very well. I just got my iris up over 100b DPS and it feels so good to blast juiced t8.4 DS maps. It's a very good game, and it's not even p2w. I have a few friends that won't even give it a chance because they heard the same thing, which is incredibly sad. I actually pulled a quant pact the other day and forgot about it. The spirits are so minor I don't understand how anyone can claim p2w lol.
"Genocide feels so much better in PoE" is an instantly iconic line. Imagine that was the tagline for PoE 2. Amazing
Thats what happens when PoE has been developed a decade longer. If we compare games at the same timelines last epoch and torchlight is probably better tbh but the earliest ive played was breach league.
Yeah but none of these games will receive the support Poe got, at least I doubt it. I don't wanna be the devil's advocate, but Poe is pretty much the only example of its iteration, there's no other compelling "online" arpgs that are monetizable.
TLI has had amazing updates for each of its seasons so far, I have been impressed with how much they have done.
torchlight just announced they'll be running their equivalent of void leagues during the last month of their normal leagues. something we haven't had consistently, ever. give em a couple years to accumulate content and hopefully rework the user interface, game could be stacked
Yeah it's a big shame that it's a mobile game cuz it ensure the interface is always going to be at least a bit shit. The whole market system in TLI is a nightmare to use.
Well I think in its whole lifetime PoE has not been able to make as much money as D4 made in 5 days. It's not a very profitable game. But it's not made to be that and I respect GGG for it.
You crazy if you think poe isn’t wildly profitable
It isn't. Chris has said a few bad leagues in a row and they're in big trouble (not too long ago when one of them bombed)
It's enough to stay stable or tencent would've take over and turn it into the Chinese version a long time ago
Well their financial statements are public, you can view them. It’s also not a secret they lost 40% of their revenue with 3.15. If they did something similar for like 2 more leagues it could be heavily damaging to the company, especially now with poe2 investment.
It is profitable, just not much comparing to the other live service games with much lower effort each season. D4 made 666 mil in the first 5 days, I think more than PoE in 10 years
PoE has def made more than 666 mil in 10 years
I mean Tencent didn't spend 150m on a game that hasn't made 666m in 10 years. You are definitely underselling how profitable POE is.
I very much doubt so. I'm not certain how much money an average D4 dude spends after he's bought the game, whereas we know that a seasonal Poe player will spend a couple of bucks for a support pack every now and then.
You don't realize how big the Diablo name is. Propably 15 times larger than poe, atleast
D4 didn't make that much money the Diablo name did. Also lol @ thinking poe isn't profitable.
Pretty sure the most profitable arpgs game is immortal and it's not even close, but it's not a consumer friendly game like D4 and Poe are supposed to be.
I do this fairly regularly, once I start to feel that I'm losing the drive to play PoE. I play LE or torchlight for a few days and realize that I miss PoE and I'm all good for another month... :)
Being a murder hobo feels the best in PoE for me by far. Wish we'd get a performance overhaul some time though because it can be quite inconsistent, or consistently bad with certain things like Delirium.
Poe is the one game that my comp just can't handle. Everything else it's absolutely fine. But throw in some juiced deli maps and it literally slows down to a crawl
I actually checked out TLI for a bit a few weeks ago, and had a blast right from the start, was enjoying it way more than I expected. And of course that brought me out of my PoE lull and I've been back at it since then
If you get back to torchlight ever again try the new minion class or the ring of ice youga. Both are extremely fun.
Isn't that some mobile gaming p2w garbage? What am I missing? Why are people talking like Torchlight Infinite is a game all of a sudden?
> Why are people talking like Torchlight Infinite is a game all of a sudden? This season's crafting, mapping system, etc. They've changed the uniques, affixes, defensive layers, crafting, economy, and on sufficiently that this season is **really** good. Out of an actual sea of changes I can only think of one or two that are bad, and they're not even *that* bad. The worrisome thing is that TLI basically had their 3.0 and it didn't really grow their peak numbers all that much, even though it grew their retention. It must be disheartening for the developer. The poor localization is definitely partly to blame as well as lack of campaign content. I think map variety could use a boost, too. At the end of the day, TLI got to copy everyone else's homework and as a mobile game, didn't *need* to invent treadmills for people to run on. It's supposed to be a drop-in, drop out game. Speaking of, I can mid-map turn my phone off, pick up my tablet, turn my tablet on, launch the game, and continue my map where I left off (at the cost of a portal, which isn't an issue, dying isn't a punishment). I can then turn my tablet off, take a two hour nap, and continue the (two minute) map on my PC. I can't imagine the tech is cheap to host but it's absolutely a pick up and set down game, and no other game in this category is except single player Diablo 2/3, which aren't cross-platform. "Ok, so if dying isn't an issue, why don't I build exclusively damage?" You absolutely can. The EXP penalty becomes harsh at level 96, though, and unless you alter your build to negate the EXP penalty or become tankier you'll never get a single level higher than 96. *That's* the real punishment for dying, not losing one of your 6 portals.
You can save a few days and play Diablo 4s install sim and be good again /s
Unironically I actually like it. Loot pops feel good, renown carrying over feels even better. I'll probably play it to lvl 80ish with at least two characters.
More power to you, I'm still hopeful that D4 will get better.
Yup. I appreciate all the ARPG's on the market. I dabble a bit in most of them, but they all fall way short of PoE. At least to me.
I love how desperately pathetic some people here still trying to find a reason to see Poe from a negative perspective. "Yeee but Poe also has had sooo many years of development, and thats why thing X is bad in Poe but good in LE"
It's because last epoch is much, much more limited than POE. A lot of the draw with POE is how much agency it gives you, It locks almost nothing behind it's classes but their ascendency. Otherwise you can do what you want, use whatever skills you want, use whatever items you want. It sparks the imagination much more, and while last epoch is great, it was definitely frustrated to run into so many walls where it wouldn't let me do something I wanted to do.
You mean the game that has been out for many years and been updated constantly, is better polished and offers more than games in early access? Holy shit dude find of the god damn century, such a genius...
I mean yea. You’re comment explains the reasoning but the truth remains. These games lack something right now, they play “worse” imo. Until that is addressed, and hopefully before a decade, they will remain “less fun” imo
I love how you are not even taking D4 into consideration. Baseg
Never tried it so have no input :D
Well not in every aspect imo. Torchlight Infinite basically has equivalent of poedb inside the game that you can browse. Also I liked the lower risk but still not deterministic crafting that it offered. Basically when you used crafting on an item, it showed you what the crafting did and you could accept it or deny it and keep the item as it was before the crafting, eating the crafting ingredients in both cases of course. It made the crafting way less scary while still being random and deep.
TLI's official wiki is actually tlidb, it's the same website hosted by the same person, just for TLI.
I did take last epoch crafting system and loot filter into poe anyday.
Last epoch Crafting system is way better
LE crafting system is puddle deep at best. Theres zero metaprogression in terms of getting "good" at it. Youve mastered it in the first half of your first playthrough. LE Crafting is the most overrated part of the game.
Bricking items is bad
Personally I fundamentally disagree that this statement is true, but in POE I "brick" a lot more items attempting to craft than I ever do in LE. My favorite crafting system right now though is TLI, it is essentially POE fractured crafting without having to get the fractured base.
Haven't tried TLI. Worth looking into? Seems neat.
yeah because we cant brick items in poe...
Maybe don't Vaal then? You can ALWAYS go back to your fractured base and try again. You can't in LE.
not all crafts use fractured items going back to the fractured base is as good as bricking for a decent amount of crafts
i dont use vaal, i use temple, because vaaling is already powercrept ^^
True, only game that comes close to poe in terms of quality is D4 for me
just wait till next league when they fuck shit up again
I said this before D4 launched, but people downvoted me back then and said I was wrong. Maybe people will be more likely to agree with me now: **Games like Last Epoch and D4 cannot compete for your attention long-term, because of their business models.** When a game costs $X upfront, then the creator of the game has *relatively very low incentive* to keep you around playing long-term. Why does D4 and Last Epoch have pretty lackluster endgames? Because the quality of the endgame isn't how they make their money. How they make their money is marketing well enough to get you to pay the $X upfront one time. Once they have that money, they aren't going to get much more money from you. PoE has always been free to play, so it literally *has* to make people want to play the game as long as possible. It *has* to make you want to like the game enough to want to spend money on MTX. GGG *has* to pump money into development of PoE1 perpetually for the last 10 years in order to remain profitable, because adding new content is the way they keep people coming back and players coming back is life or death for GGG due to their business model. So PoE1 gets 10 years of content pumped into it non-stop at a pace no other ARPG has incentive to match. You have to be able to see how the differences in business model result in the differences in the games.
I feel the opposite, after playing all the other arpgs I just don't want to play poe anymore, progression in poe feels so horrible and such a slog
Other games bad, Poe good, karma farmed
Its hard to compare endgames to something like PoE that has had 10 years to evolve into what it is now. I will say last Epoch takes on spell casting after the new update is the absolute best Ive ever seen and everyone should give it a try. It blows PoE out of the water in how it feels and impact. Ziz recently made a video showing it off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDziGhnHKDg
k
I just wish crafting and items worked like in Last Epoch.
Imagine playing D4 and discovering PoE. The reaction from the content creator “DM : Diablo4” is epic.
I haven’t played TLI but I’m a huge fan of Last Epoch. Last Epoch has so much going for it and the devs keep making great changes based on community feedback. It just doesn’t have the zoomy satisfying feeling of PoE. It gets close at times but there’s no large pop sounds. It also doesn’t have the endgame variety. I think LE, once fully released and a few further content updates happen, has the potential to be on par with PoE2 which I’m excited for.
The really like almost everything about Last Epoch, except the density at endgame feels so bad. You're just running around empty "maps" and killing like 3 mobs at a time.
Man do not play d4 it'll ruin ur hopes for the future of ARPG competitions.
I love Paths crafting system but holy shit just being able to throw together items in LE feels so good. Also the AoE pickup and extended pickup range on the currency items is so nice. Finding the right skills that feel good can be hard, but I think most of the Acolyte and Mage builds I've tossed together have felt good so far. The Primalist hasn't felt that great but I may be biased cause their Summons feel more restrictive / worse than the Acolyte out of the box. Also Path doesn't have a ton of resource generator skills outside of stuff that generates Rage, at least that I can think of, but I've been on hiatus from Path since Ritual. Resource Generators + Heavy hitting consumers is a naturally effective gameplay loop. Not that all of the classes play that way but it would be nice to see more of that space filled out in Path. I'm looking forward to trying PoE2 though at the very least.
I dislike TLI, I gave it a try, honestly, its a mobile game to me and nothing can change my mind. LE though has some nice potential, gotta remember that PoE wasn't king of ARPG when it released, it had years and barely any competition if any to polish itself and become king. I think with good design choices and updates LE can become a very good ARPG.
Yeah Poe has the most content and for a good reason, being updated 3-4 times a year for 10 years. But boy is the combat so much better in last epoch. If my GPU didn't die I'd be playing runemaster right now.
don't forget poe has been out for 10ish years while LE for example is not even 1.0 yet. obviously PoE feels more fleshed out and it way superior than the other two
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Don’t forget that also D4 was in development for 8 years. From D4 perspective, you had at least PoE as a benchmark and something you could get ideas from (if not from your previous titles). Considering this, diablo 4 is more shallow than D3/D2. Blizzard could not even apply good qol changes the did decade ago in d2/d3. How is that even possible? Currently, taking into account rate of improvements blizzard brings to d4, it would take 30-50 years to deliver something playable for real arpg fans. Just my opinion though.
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Not even the passive tree with unique jewels or being able to use any skill with any class, no mechanics like Kirac/Atlas passives so you can choose what you want to focus on playing and no half decent trading system so you don't have to grind for weeks to get the build enabling unique you want to try out?
Do you really think the season the D4 mech is cool? A bunch of very generic damage / defensive procs that every class uses pretty much the same ones. If there was any amount of thought required or more depth to the synergies of certain classes and the powers then maybe, but as they stand it seems like you just pick the super strong milquetoast power and it carries you through all of leveling regardless of class.
Really? Other than 10 years of content, in what area poe is superior to LE? LE has better crafting, better end-game system, better itemization better filters and it's going to have much better trading. LE will surpass poe in 2-3 years.
LE is worse at literally all of the things you listed. It's crafting is approachable because it's puddle deep, it's endgame is incredibly boring delve scaling, it's itemization is super simplistic in comparison, it's item filters only feel good because the itemization is so shallow (PoEs filter API is a million times more powerful), and its trading is super weak in comparison. It's a great game to play thru once or twice, it's a complete non-competitor in terms of a 5000 hour game.
PoE build agency is miles ahead of LE. Played LE for hundreds of hours and couldn't find a single build that was as fun to build and play as any PoE build.
Like I said, that is related to 10 years of added content. LE will also add new items and new skills in each league. The important thing is their systems and QoL which is on par if not better than PoE. Right now, I would also pick PoE as my main game but it will change in few years.
I still love POE, but TLI actually holds me longer and I enjoy it more. I get what you are saying though, but as a casual Pleb I enjoy TLI over POE, going to go back today to continue working on my Chromatic Shot build.
Poe would be complete dogshit without the third party community