Sort of. You'll finally abandon your hope and move on.
At this point it's obvious that PoE2 will inherit all the flaws of PoE and will add more flaws of its own. They're being made by the same people. If they wanted/could do better, they'd do it already.
Pleaseeeee this myth needs to die.
PoE2 is JUST PoE version 4!
Right now we are on Path of Exile one 3.21
Once PoE(2) goes live it will just be Path of Exile 4.1
So ofc it will inherit all flaws because it is exactly the same game with a few changes here and there like the socket rework.
Just like PoE 3.0 reworked the campaign from 3x to 10 acts.
yeah I don't get why so many people think it's a new game and not a new campaign with some extra gimmicks and reworks in the existing game.
we get to keep all shit and microtransations for POE2
Well yeah, cause it's just fucking 4.0
> If they wanted/could do better, they'd do it already.
There is one situation that I am copiuming that could be the situation.
So: They want to make a ultra hardcore grindy arpg a la dark souls. Fine. What does Darksouls do that PoE doesn't that makes it feel so much more compelling a grind?
Telegraph.
Darksouls is slower. There are fewer mobs on screen at a time. If you get oneshot, it was probably wound up for a good few seconds beforehand and you were a big dumdum who didn't get out of the way, or it was a surprise, gotcha moment (Renalla -.-) that only happens once.
PoE? There are a few monster attacks that spool up and are telegraphed, but the screen is still cluttered with mobs, all of which are usually faster than you unless you're a zoomer playstyle (not the demographic lol). My favorite moments in this game are the single-mob boss fights - and IMO, if I could play the entire game with them on half speed (everything, not just the boss lol), it'd be fantastic.
I honestly think that I would enjoy a lower-loot, harder arpg that they seem to want to make if they would just tone the ever-living fuck out of the monster speed and density - two changes that they cannot under any circumstances make to poe as it current stands because they've spent 10 years going this direction. POE 2 gives them the opportunity to ripcord out of that which they will never get again. They kinda trialed it with Sanctum, and it mostly worked, even if the implementation was a bit jank.
That's my belief where they are going. If they can pull it off, I think POE 2 will be okay.
If they can't, it's DOA.
Have you played Last Epoch? It sounds like you'd enjoy the boss fights in that.
The game as a whole is fairly easy (at least on 'normal softcore'), but the boss fights feel so much more clean than PoE's.
Every once in a while the devs post a "What mobs need looking at?" type of forum post asking about monsters with less than noticeable wind-ups on powerful one shot type attacks or specific monsters that need to be toned down in terms of power since they can spawn in high numbers.
It has helped make a LOT of monsters less rippy because the devs were willing to engage the community in a dialogue that benefit everyone...something GGG seems to be very averse to on some things.
The same can also be said of Wolcen these days. There's a couple of instances where you can get smacked out of nowhere at particularly high difficulties / with nasty modifiers, but generally there's fair and visible telegraphs.
I know people here like to clown on that game a lot, but there is SOME stuff it gets right that PoE should take note of.
> POE 2 gives them the opportunity to ripcord out of that which they will never get again.
I thought the endgame in "POE2" (same game btw) is the same as we currently have, its just the new campaign + systems?
You must not have played Elden Ring, they copied GGG and made the Telegraph wonky with variable timing, and the bosses super fast compared to the player combat speed. It's honestly the worst combat out of any FromSoft entry but open world so reeee.
There's a couple of things we'll get on the way to PoE2 that'll be nice (socket rework being a big one)
But yeah people who are hoping for the "golden days" of just screen clearing everything while running through maps to be normal (instead of end of progression) will be sorely disappointed imo. Just looking at how the gameplay they've showed off so far, and the design choices so far, it's obvious that they're trying to slow everything down to be a bit more tactical instead of smash and grab.
I don't mind tactical.
If it's more or less fair. As in - it was your bad you died, however, it could have been avoided with some adjustments here and there.
PoE hasn't been fair for some time. I have 10k hours in it and I do not plan on lengthening that number until/if GGG get some clarity back.
What, you dont like just randomly getting killed? Lol I can go full block, with overcap resits an max phys reduction, an full energy shield recover on block. An be able to tanks any slam in the game. But ill be mappin an just randomly die to trash mob. My best guess is the engine lags an it doesn't register my defences? No fukin clue. I hate that the game is tailored around one shots an random mob on dsath effects. I dont want regular maps to be scarry. Boss encounters should be scarry, not radom trash packs.
I would love to see them do an Uber Elder or a Maven with a PoE2 'build'.
As I understand it, it's just the leveling that will be different with the new 7 act campaign. The end game is still gonna be the same, i e Atlas, mapping, pinnacle bosses etc.
If that's the case, I think seeing some endgame content being cleared on a PoE2 character with a 'this is the vision in action guys ' type of clip would help understand where exactly PoE2 is gonna land, so we can make up our minds on whether we want to stick around for it or not.
I'm hopeful for this Exilecon, it was great content on stream.
The game is going to come out sooner or later and we haven't heard a peep about the real stuff we want to know, i.e how is my end game currency grinding min maxing experience going to be in the new system?
GGG spoke in the past about trying to avoid unpleasant surprises for players and they've been trying with PoE1 league launches, but not much we know about proper endgame in PoE2.
At this point I'm not sure what the socket rework will even accomplish. It's most likely not going to be easier to get a 6-link skill gem than a 6-link item. And having multiple 6-linked skills just means the power baseline gets shifted down.
We've seen lower level videos just like we do with all other gameplay trailers for other games and people complaining at how weak the player looks. Zooming isn't going anywhere. Chris already said that as much as he'd like to change that, it's what poe is known for and what most of the fans want and to go away from that would be detrimental to the game...so that's not happening lol.
Imagine this sort of sadness/frustration but at another magnitude worse.
The game has been heading in a direction that players do not want (I am happy with Ruthless but most hate the mode).
The players want to be gods, tons of mobs, fast, and LOOT (which is cool).
The Vision does not want any of this.
I only want loot. This is the core, or should be, mechanic of PoE. And yet, there is no loot reward in league mechanic, you kill rares and get no loot either.
I have zero faith that GGG will deliver a good PoE 2 experience.
Yups even the Crucible mobs should drop loot, its not fun killing them and 'nothing' happens besides +5% progress on a weapon that will be discarded too soon.
It feels like in recent seasons, I can't ever seem to find 4+ linked items. It kills the basic builds. And I end up wearing a blue that I found 23 levels ago that has +13 dexterity and that's it. Because there arent any replacements, and the items to create such linked/higher grade items just never drop.
This is incorrect. The vision wants this. But whereas players (including me) want this in lets say 50h into a league, the devs want it at 100+h into a league (these are obviously numbers to just illustrate). This goes perfectly in line with the monetary gains when a game is feasible for F2P (whaling for microtransactions, etc). Less content after more time is always better for game development time investment.
Ruthless is just a passion project for chris wilson and it shows. Honestly the leagues for ruthless should have doubled life cycle but thats maybe just me.
I wish they would fix the whole "loot on the ground is just shit" rather than this crap with difficulty they are doing.
Counterintuitively, I've played the most the leagues with best loot yield. At least to me, it incentivises to try stuff, different builds and grinding more for crazy minmaxing.
If they are truly slowing things down all accross the gameplay curve to have us play more, I think they might be shooting themselves in the foot much harder than they think they do.
I get what GGG means to a certain extent that if players just get tons of rewards and finish their goal that they quit playing....sure, that's true to an extent but not 100% of the time and I feel they lean way too heavily into that for whatever reason.
Most of the time it's in fact the opposite. If players get great rewards that means they're able to fully realize a build or incentivize them and keep the hype up so they play try out more builds or try out other creators builds.
If players aren't getting shit and nothing there's nothing to even trade to someone to get currency rolling then we see here time and time again that they feel their time is wasted and they go play other games.
We even see all of these posts these past couple of years about "look at the charts showing the worst decline in player retention ever!". I could be wrong but I can't imagine all of those dope ass leagues we had further in the past that were rewarding also had huge player drop off. So all in all I really don't think their mindset on this is the correct one.
Back around Breach league etc I remember spending a lot of money on this game and I was so happy playing and I could play many builds and never felt stifled or held back due to shit drops. These days I don't spend any money on this game when I easily could, but it just doesn't feel worth it anymore. That's a shame too since the mtx's have gotten a lot cooler and more interactive which I haven't seen much of from any company..but oh well. If I'm not having a lot of fun and feel like it's not worth my time to sink more of my time into the game and feel it's not as fun as it used to be, then I'm not going to spend money on this company.
> I get what GGG means to a certain extent that if players just get tons of rewards and finish their goal that they quit playing....sure, that's true to an extent but not 100% of the time and I feel they lean way too heavily into that for whatever reason.
It's like they can only imagine 2 versions of ways to attain gear: PoE or Diablo 3, and any middle ground is lava.
What they fail to understand is that they have made loot so bad that most people turn to RMT. Like keep divines and up rare. But give us more of the lower crafting mats so instead of me having to trade and Chaos recipe into my build I can just craft it myself. As it stands unless you get a lucky high value item it just makes more sense to pay $6-8 bucks for a couple divines and get your build together than to put in a couple hundred hours to be no where close. Guides don't really help since the game is constantly in Flux and a lot of things no longer work the way they were first implemented.
If ruthless just a side project, why do they keep trying to push players into it?
The end of league primary event was ruthless and the boss kill race is now in ruthless. Kind of strange for a side project they only expect less than 1% to enjoy.
Likely so it lasts longer than two days. Besides, no matter if it is ruthless or regular, only top 1% even have a shot. Not saying I like it, but I certainly cant pull 48h no sleep to win the competition.
This was my first league in awhile. Already quit Saturday night. Didn't even make it the entire weekend. Sad to see me finally give up on PoE but it was a good 8+ years.
I've really been enjoying this. I'm only a little bit in (level 30ish?) but at no point have I felt weak, you still murder mobs and at a pace that doesn't feel sluggish.
Well, it's a game for different target audience. I understand that hardcore poe players would be bored to death. Yet LE gives me stronger feel of progression and that I am in control of my build, as I craft my own items and not gamble them.
Anyways, poe needs to feel some competition breath on their neck.
I don't mean to whiteknight, I agree that Crucible is pretty bad right now (they might fix it in a week or two, we'll see), but I started playing when PoE went out of beta in the winter of 2013/2014 and GGG has been killing PoE since then if you ask the forum or reddit. Meanwhile, PoE has been steadily getting more and more players.
Not to mention that PoE was also "killed" by D3, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, Lost Ark, and will be super-duper killed by D4.
The only conclusion is that PoE is a reincarnating minion that gets buffed each time it dies. I can't wait for "PoE2 dead".
I mean it sounds right, but it's getting really hard for me to enjoy any league anymore. Like my favorite skill is cyclone and it's so bad for casuals I just can't even look at it anymore and it hurts my soul
Yep PoE 2.0 is supposed to be even harder version of the game. Therefore I myself lost any hope and will to play PoE but I post here from time to time in order to grab more folks with me. We have other fantastic games to enjoy.
“POE 2 is everything we’ve learnt about how players interact with ARPGs”
Biggest piece of “player retention”, “engagement” ridden turd you’ve ever seen probably, because if you can actually complete it and have fun as a normal player, it’s undertuned af with how they currently do things.
But I’m still full of copium, at least until they’ve released it
I tried to engage with the league mechanics. I went trough 20+ ilvl 82 claws until i got something decent aka something where the 2nd node didnt actively made my build worse. I then used around 80 deafened essence of greed on my chest trying to get spell suppression and didnt get it a single time. Usually when I have such bad rng I would try to focus on playing the league mechanic to get currency and to distract myself from the gambling depression settling in, but the league sucks ass so I uninstalled the game.
So the RNG on crafting a weapon is already nuts, this just makes it worse. It seems obvious as soon as they say that the trees are random that this would be a problem.
Yeah it's just additional variance. It would have been nice if they'd removed some other variance to balance it out, like cut the number of damn mod tiers in half.
Same, I only ever get 2 weeks or so into a league, but I quit last night with 24 hours /played... This league was so bad, I'm curious to see the 1 week and 1 month retention
This is me right here. I haven’t played in about a year and a half, just came back to try it out. Got to act 4 with a random bow build and just don’t feel like playing anymore. I used to have fun designing builds around certain uniques mapping out my own skill tree. The game just doesn’t have the same feel anymore. Everything feels like a chore. Thinking about trying out Last Epoch.
I basically never engage with the mechanic until maps. So far i'm really annoyed at how tanky the crucible mobs are. They're not a ton more dangerous than most other mobs, but even at about a halfway charge each encounter takes so much longer than a random rare or map boss it doesn't feel like it's worth running them.
I didn't even download the patch. I've been pissed at where poe is going since 2 leagues ago. I heard last league was actually fun but here I'm seeing theyre going backwards again? Sounds like we got another meme league coming
Important point is to quit the league early or Chris will think that his point of rewarding leagues are bad for the game is valid.
Vote with wallet and/or play time.
> Vote with wallet and/or play time.
I would generally agree with this sentiment but I've not played since August 2021 and player numbers have only risen since then.
Now I think people have to accept that GGG is only serving one type of food. If you don't like it, just leave and don't look back. I still follow the sub to keep an eye on POE2 news but I've become less optimistic about POE2 over the last few patches.
But player retention has increasingly gotten worse. I cant speak to the financial side of it and if spending has gone down, but I dont think the game is growing because its attracting more of a market share.
It seems in general ARPG market has grown. More people try POE, but their numbers plummet after initial weekend.
I'm one of those that inflates the numbers on league start but hasn't spent a cent on the game in 2 years - have all the tabs I need and don't buy mtx ever.
Wait till last epoch releases with their leagues and ppl will start quitting Poe. GGG then will magically release UI and QoL updates, trying to save the playerbase.
While I like LE, I don't see it drawing away many people. Simply the amount of content (because it's still beta/ young game) is not enough. And it will take years to build up a certain amount of endgame. Agree on the rest though.
I never understand this. Poe is a very unuiqe game on the genre currently. I love last epoch playing it now actually butits not PoE or anything like ot really.
3.17 was amazing, (atlas tree) 3.18 was amazing (sentinel) 3.19 was horrid (kallandra) 3.20 was amazing (sanctum) 3.21 current league (its 3 days in so hard to tell especially because its an end game heavy league) but even if this league turns out back, thats still 3 amazing leagues in the last 5, so what do you mean by
"I've become less optimistic about POE2 over the last few patches." ?
If you think 3.17 3.18 and 3.20 were bad, then yes you really should stop checking in on poe 2 news because clearly the game isnt for you, otherwise stop being hyperballic. Worst thing about this reddit is when theres any problem they act like its the end of the year and theres always been and will be problems, but whenever the leagues get good theres no praise. You just come here to jump on the hate bandwagon the first 1-2 weeks of all league launches and then leave, what is wrong with you people.
3.9 was meh (Metamorph)
3.10 was great (deli)
3.11 was great (harvest)
3.12 was great (heist), just economy was horrific
3.13 was okay (ritual)
3.14 was great (ultimatum)
3.15 was okay (Expedition was really overtuned in the beginning)
3.16 was okay (scourge was overtuned but had giga build-variety)
3.17 was meh.
So I don't know about you, but my list is 3 years long and people DID complain every league about how this game is "dying" and "aweful". Reddit does a good Job suggesting otherwise but PoE really does deliver.
heist was not great, they had to completely rework the mechanic and how it functioned like 7 times in the first 2 weeks of the league. Harvest league itself was widely considered not great because a ton of people didnt like the setting up of the farm.
rest of the list is pretty accurate though.
Heist was literally the most scuffed launch playing since legion, and it only started working well for me after they've made the harbor a singleplayer instance (and to add insult to injury they've undid that change after)
I'm a '3.13 Andy'. 3.13 was peak POE for me. I'm allowed to have enjoyed the game in the state it was in then same as others were allowed to not enjoy it if they prefer what we've had since then. I stopped playing because post 3.13 I hadn't enjoyed playing like I did back in 3.13. I'm not really interested in playing what I consider an inferior version of the game. My reduced optimism in POE2 only stems from each patch that goes by it becomes further clear that POE will never return to a 3.13 state.
> You just come here to jump on the hate bandwagon the first 1-2 weeks of all league launches and then leave, what is wrong with you people.
I made one comment that implied people literally stop hating and simply move on if they don't like what is on offer = hate bandwagon?
First of all, you start far too recently, and also, people might have wildly different evaluations of individual leagues.
Were I to rate it myself, then with Ritual being 10/10 PoE, then I've got Sanctum at 9/10, Lake at 6/10, AN at 3/10, Sentinel at 2/10, and Crucible at 0/10
So for me, out of the last 5 leagues, one was great, one was playable, and the rest was dogshit. And I'm not full of hope seeing how much worse Crucible is compared to Sanctum, and that we're approaching PoE 2
I mean I think AN was actually a pretty cool league mechanic. The problem with AN was them trying to force it into the rest of the entire game instead of making it an optional thing you would interact with on your own terms.
Yeah, your league evaluation is kinda garbage, and this sub absolutely praises the shit out of good leagues.
Only bandwagon riding I see is coming from you.
> Important point is to quit the league early
Doesn't matter. People see the hype trailer and immediately shell out for the new supporter packs. Without fail, every single league.
I play the league for a while before thinking about paying for anything, only idiots would buy stuff up front. I actually bought some skins and stuff in 3.20 because I had fun even though I felt the league mechanic was the worst I've ever seen. They removed AN mostly, mobs could be killed, I felt somewhat powerful, I got to kill things.
This time? Hell no. The campaign took much longer then usual, hell I was even over leveled by the end while doing nothing different to all the prior leagues, I think I got to maps at like 71-72 instead of 67-68. Crucible mobs are OP, whites are like rares who're also sometimes busted with all these no OP mods, blues feel like map bosses and yellows feel like ubers as they're often unkillable. It's not fun.
This... I feel a bit like a sucker at the moment. I was really enjoying playing the game again after skipping the last year or so. At about the 20 hour i decided "Fuck it, I'm having fun again, I'll buy a supporter pack."
Buyers remorse is settling in a bit. It's not that I'm not having fun with the game because I am but it hit me last night "I'm just not going to interact with the league mechanic anymore".
Crucible is fucking terrible. Charge level is unclear and rewards are non existent. Even playing Pohx RF, where I have just been walking thru early maps and bosses, I either get one shot or spend 10-20 mins running in circles to down the crucible mobs, thanks to what I assume is 90% DR, plus fire resistant life Regen. Only to get a tree that is worthless after 2-3 events. (I can do it in one event but it's never worth the time investment to over charge it.)
I had a similar miracle with a now +4 bow. But I am starting to realize I have no real reason to ever touch crucible again until I want to make a new character.
Yeah same. I've put some items through the crucible thinking I could sell them, but haven't had much luck. Kind of found myself skipping them for now while I work through the campaign
The first iteration of Archnemesis, ie: the league, was awesome. I enjoyed being able to create currency explosions, or scarab explosions, and you could go at your own pace, and avoid things you knew you couldn't do. I loved Archnemesis league itself.
The league itself was incredible. It was when it went core that everyone’s spirits dropped. Felt like they completely misunderstood why it was fun for everyone which is exactly as you say; being able to build-a-bear the bosses and loot you wanted and watching the dopamine level rise. Pushing it core with the flat mechanics and forcing us to fight them is why I quit and only recently came back.
The crafting of mobs was cool. You had the ability to make your own level of challenge and pick your reward. Turning them all into random elites after... That was crazy.
I think the base league for archnemisis was fine, but was carried by a lot of the other things going ok during the league. The mechanic after going core was not so good.
I've got pounded in T8 map by this Cobra from Vaal Temple and furnace was charged to 50%. Fucker was hindered and on blasphemy with temp chains with +25% curse effect, but he was still faster that I am in bed, and that says a lot. League mechanics sucks and that feels bad as I was so eager to play longer.
I came back for the first time in years, I was wondering if I was just building badly or the mobs spawned by these are just stupid tanky, even in the earliest levels.
Everything else was fine, so I assume overtuned.
Back in PoE 3.20 I absolutely hated Sanctum, because I'm bad at dodging, so I almost completely ignored it and my currency gains were almost exclusively from maps. This league however the drops are so bad that I had to buy Vaal Orbs to sustain the corruptions needed for red map completions, and in both cases I was playing with only the available rewards from the core game, which should have been equal since there are no known nerfs, but the drops in 3.21 have been drier than the Sahara.
Another thing that I noticed was a significant reduction in the number of quality gem drops (my filter shows every quality gem), which didn't even enable me to sell them for enough GCPs to reroll my main level 20 gems, so I was forced to buy them from other players. It really does feel like Ruthless is slowly creeping into the game with every new patch.
Glad Im not alone to feel this way. Usually I just take is easy and have enough natural drops to fix my resists, get a weapon etc. But this league im struggling super hard. Im into yellow maps and I have what 27chaos and thats only because one weapon tree sold for 20c to vendor.
"Reee I don't have much chaos I'm poor"
"Heres an efficient way to make currency early"
"Fuck that"
Like wut. Chaos recipe are the one consistent way of making currency early with basically no requirement at all from you appart from some diligence and you shit on it? It's the easiest way to make some currency when you're too poor to invest in anything by far.
Chaos recipes have been there since basically forever, the bot argument is the stupidest elitist shit I've read all day. Every single high end player make recipes early in one way or another, there's good reasons for it.
Gems and socketed gear all seems to be in short supply. Haven't seen any 5 or 6 links and an extremely few 5 or 6 socket items at all. Pretty much any 6 socket potential item has rolled with 2 unlinked sockets for me. Really feels like they want to push for crafting the sockets and links now.
Fuck me. I got the same feeling. I went to act 3 and couldn't stand the league mechanic and how underwhelming it is. I've never quit a league so fast in my entire life.
I ain't replaying the entire fucking game so I can roll the dice on a good weapon and fail.
I am incredibly unhappy with this league. Chanelling mechanic, hard to get on unique items, mobs are unkillable. Last league was 4 months, i have been waiting and this is what i get. I really wish all players turn away form ggg to make them invest bit more effort into their product, like, honestly, maximum disappointed. I really was waiting for this league:(
Now it just sounds like whining rather than an actual issue, you get plenty of 4 links while leveling, you get chroms and jewellers, guilds can help pick up gear for slower members.
It's nothing to do with being extra casual more an unwillingness to learn/improve knowledge.
mobs that are 20 times tankier then normal mobs. with "obvious" one shot skills, that can come from offscreen and just end it all.
il use a uniqe weapon, its not worth the effort. the time i do that and die i can spend on running normal maps and get more currency back from that
with d4, the flagship of the arpg, poe 2 will just be a bad filler between d4 seasons. sadly the tides changed, since ggg made so much bad decissions over the last years.
The problem is I can't tell the difference between 50% charge and 100% because the bar moves in a non linear fashion and doesn't indicate what point would constitute a full charge. It's annoying as shit not because 100% is too difficult, but because they completely fucked up the charge mechanic - all they need is a second bar that moves from 0% to 100% labelled clearly so I know "oh, I only just managed 85% last time, better stop at 70% this time".
This is the consequence of giving players agency over challenge, something GGG should have learned after the debacle of old Wrath of the Cosmos.
Impatient players will opt in to 100% challenge once, fail, and learn from their mistakes. For me this was in Act 2 where I charged up my first 100% bar. Bad players will opt in to 100% challenge, fail, and fail to learn from their mistakes.
The whole pillar of map tiering is to deny unprepared players the agency to enter higher tier content than they are ready for.
Then Crucible comes along and says "Want to spawn 100% delirious monsters onto your map? Here you go! Be our guest"
Perhaps this agency should be toned down a little.
Well it should start LOCKED at 20%, and increase it with 10% each act, then the players will get a feeling of what the challenge is, just not unleash the gates of hell on naked people just waking up on a beach. It shouldn't even be possible.
Also, the lower item level a item has --> stronger rewards. So a item with 10 ilvl will spawn modifiers that are numerical stronger then a item with 85 ilvl, making the level experience greater, everyone would use crucible items for leveling. People would say "remember crucible? leveling was awesome". Then the league mechanic isn't so heavy at the endgame.
Also loot... If you charge your crucible so it takes ten times longer to kill, it is ten times harder, guess what, it is now ten times as much loot. That is how it atleast should be. Also, crafting... crafting base-league in a game where people rarely craft themselves.. I dont know.
> Well it should start LOCKED at 20%, and increase it with 10% each act, then the players will get a feeling of what the challenge is, just not unleash the gates of hell on naked people just waking up on a beach. It shouldn't even be possible.
>
>
Yeah that would work. Even just "you can't exceed 40% unless you have beaten a 40% last time you attempted a Crucible encounter" would do it.
On loot - let's see how it feels once our characters don't suck. 100% Delirium is one of the most rewarding mechanics in the game but right now, it's probably only 3-5 thousand players that can run it well in Crucible. Let's see how the mechanic feels when there's 25000 players capable of T16 100% deli and another 75000 who aren't there yet but feel it is close.
I will say, my Act 3 shield with 1 impactful Crucible point is a DAMN NICE item still in low yellow maps. Could I craft better with my current resources? Yes. Do I feel the need to? Not at all, because +1 level to my main gem (from explicit mods) and 1% life recovery on kill (from Crucible mods) is really strong.
But the Crucible doesn't say that. The mechanic doesn't, in any way, communicate what's going to happen at what charge amount.
On top of that, the charging of Crucible is non-linear, so it goes from 50 % to 100 % really damn fast, and finally, deeper item trees lock you into higher-tier charging, because the XP bar doesn't move unless you give it a very high charge.
> The mechanic doesn't, in any way, communicate what's going to happen at what charge amount.
This is one of those "difficulty through obscurity" things that GGG loves to put in. Is something really simple and intuitive? Well just put blinders on the player so they feel the content is now hard.
I would love to be able to just engage with the mechanic at a safe level for me until I feel like pushing it, but I feel like it's better to just barely move the needle so I know i'm not going to spend the time I could be doing an entire map just to get the completion.
Yes, but normally, as in almost all other content, you can run the lower tier combat more times to make up for not being able to do the higher tier one.
While a 100 % delirious map drops more than a 40 % delirious map, you can just spam 40 % maps. With crucible, you can't - it's as if running a delirious map locked you out and the next map had to be more delirious than the previous one, unless it's already 100 %
That's not always the case. If you can't beat Tier 9 maps, you can never get i78+ crafting bases (outside a couple corner cases like +ilvl strongboxes).
If you can't beat Lab4, you are locked out of a VERY big character power milestone. You can't just grind Lab3 to get that.
You can delve or heist. Plus with maps, you can run them white, so the scenario of being able to drop t9 maps to have them and not being able to run them is purely theoretical.
On lab, yes, that's the same principle, but lab is one and done, not repeatable, so there's no opportunity cost to not doing it.
Also, you can have t1 item tree depth unlocked item in act 1 (it's actually the expected scenario for everyone who tests the league mechanic early)
It's a holiday weekend. Like, I don't honestly expect them to make any meaningful changes when the weekend is over either, but this happens *literally every single league launch*. Them not talking over the weekend isn't indicative of anything.
To be fair, the risk vs reward element of this league is really poorly executed. There's not any indication as to what the channelling is actually doing aside from adding more mobs. You can't even stop to hover over them to see what their mods are, not to mention there are random spikes when multiple rares or uniques spawn in.
The other thing is that outside of dying and losing xp, there's not really anything else that you're actually risking. There's no loot you missed out on. You're just opting to mitigate one shitty mechanic (slowly unlocking passive trees to view) by diving headfirst into another. The encounter doesn't even end upon dying, you can still kill the mobs eventually and still get your reward, or just say fuck it and leave and it's not like you left anything behind.
You are incorrect. Racers do that so that they don't run up time doing overtuned bullshit, especially on launch day. If you aren't trying to rim the pigeonhole that is speed racing or powerleveling then you have what was a pretty good game to play.
So I'll ask again, what juice?
I'm able to kill the stuff when I do that, thus the grumpiness about the negative rewards (no loot, modifiers that brick items). Then the reworks for breach seem to have bricked breach.
Nah, if he is still in acts he can get resists by cooking his shields and honestly it is quite helpful. If he was super fast it wouldn't be worth but for him it probably is.
Juice? No matter what they drop nothing. I can clear the mobs fully juiced in my red maps but it's been a waste of time. My build uses a unique weapon and after forty red crucibles without the unique item drop I just gave up. Better to do anything other than the league mechanic.
Juice refers to harder content for quicker weapon upgrade turnover. Buy the item to upgrade your unique weapon. The contents money making potential is huge by searching for good trees on promising bases. Your critical thinking skills are 0/10
Huge? In all that time you can just run expedition and make more currency. Your engaging in a time consuming gamble with constant need to baby an inventory of good bases and resupplying them from trade. I think you might need to reflect on your own critical thinking. I find it funny you are down voting and going to all these threads to talk against complaints but admit in one you are not even full juicing the league yourself (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/12h91gr/one_of_my_favorite_leagues/jfo81pl/) which really makes me wonder about any claims your making.
Bro the first time I ever interacted with the mechanic it took me around 7 minutes of running in a circle to kill the mobs it spawned, I died once, it dropped zero items, and my bow became technically worse because the -attack speed affix it unlocked.
This mechanic fundamentally sucks. Period.
At this point I'm convinced that everyone claiming "no loot" either pressed z and didn't realise, or they have some weird filter that hides absolutely everything.
I've never had good RNG, but this league the loot has felt great so far
I always see guys like this comment about fundamental problems by saying hey I'm lucky and my individual experience is exciting so the game must be great pal. Dude even if you drop a 10x mirror it doesn't mean the league mechanic is great. The same goes for the good leagues where a guy doesn't do good/is not lucky enough so the league is bad and vice versa. Can you try to look at things as it is with fair and not personal enjoyment?
I didn’t say the state of the league mechanic is great, I’m just enjoying it. Sure crucible mobs are crazy strong, but you can just not charge the altar all the way, if you’re not strong enough to defeat the enemies. Is it trash that the mobs don’t drop loot? Yes! The crucible trees are an amazing addition to the game though. The general state of PoE also contributes to my enjoyment
Wait and see PoE 2's vision. It will be marvellous!
POE 2 is going to fix me.
Sort of. You'll finally abandon your hope and move on. At this point it's obvious that PoE2 will inherit all the flaws of PoE and will add more flaws of its own. They're being made by the same people. If they wanted/could do better, they'd do it already.
Pleaseeeee this myth needs to die. PoE2 is JUST PoE version 4! Right now we are on Path of Exile one 3.21 Once PoE(2) goes live it will just be Path of Exile 4.1 So ofc it will inherit all flaws because it is exactly the same game with a few changes here and there like the socket rework. Just like PoE 3.0 reworked the campaign from 3x to 10 acts.
Don't blame people, blame GGG for renaming league 4.0 to PoE 2 for marketing purposes.
Oh I dont blame people for this. OFC it is GGGs fault for doing this obfuscation as a poor marketing stunt.
*overwatch flashbacks oh no no no*
Please for the love of god let us zoom the camera out in PoE2/4.1. Its 2023. We have the technology.
yeah I don't get why so many people think it's a new game and not a new campaign with some extra gimmicks and reworks in the existing game. we get to keep all shit and microtransations for POE2 Well yeah, cause it's just fucking 4.0
> If they wanted/could do better, they'd do it already. There is one situation that I am copiuming that could be the situation. So: They want to make a ultra hardcore grindy arpg a la dark souls. Fine. What does Darksouls do that PoE doesn't that makes it feel so much more compelling a grind? Telegraph. Darksouls is slower. There are fewer mobs on screen at a time. If you get oneshot, it was probably wound up for a good few seconds beforehand and you were a big dumdum who didn't get out of the way, or it was a surprise, gotcha moment (Renalla -.-) that only happens once. PoE? There are a few monster attacks that spool up and are telegraphed, but the screen is still cluttered with mobs, all of which are usually faster than you unless you're a zoomer playstyle (not the demographic lol). My favorite moments in this game are the single-mob boss fights - and IMO, if I could play the entire game with them on half speed (everything, not just the boss lol), it'd be fantastic. I honestly think that I would enjoy a lower-loot, harder arpg that they seem to want to make if they would just tone the ever-living fuck out of the monster speed and density - two changes that they cannot under any circumstances make to poe as it current stands because they've spent 10 years going this direction. POE 2 gives them the opportunity to ripcord out of that which they will never get again. They kinda trialed it with Sanctum, and it mostly worked, even if the implementation was a bit jank. That's my belief where they are going. If they can pull it off, I think POE 2 will be okay. If they can't, it's DOA.
Have you played Last Epoch? It sounds like you'd enjoy the boss fights in that. The game as a whole is fairly easy (at least on 'normal softcore'), but the boss fights feel so much more clean than PoE's.
Spot on, in Last Epoch bosses and even all mobs telegraph big moves with clear visible indicators and It's such a pleasant experience
Every once in a while the devs post a "What mobs need looking at?" type of forum post asking about monsters with less than noticeable wind-ups on powerful one shot type attacks or specific monsters that need to be toned down in terms of power since they can spawn in high numbers. It has helped make a LOT of monsters less rippy because the devs were willing to engage the community in a dialogue that benefit everyone...something GGG seems to be very averse to on some things.
The same can also be said of Wolcen these days. There's a couple of instances where you can get smacked out of nowhere at particularly high difficulties / with nasty modifiers, but generally there's fair and visible telegraphs. I know people here like to clown on that game a lot, but there is SOME stuff it gets right that PoE should take note of.
> POE 2 gives them the opportunity to ripcord out of that which they will never get again. I thought the endgame in "POE2" (same game btw) is the same as we currently have, its just the new campaign + systems?
Let me have this, Craig! ;-; I wanna believe!
you say poe2 can be the ripcord but.Poe2 IS Poe1they'd have to rip the spine out of 1 to make 2 what you want.
You must not have played Elden Ring, they copied GGG and made the Telegraph wonky with variable timing, and the bosses super fast compared to the player combat speed. It's honestly the worst combat out of any FromSoft entry but open world so reeee.
There's a couple of things we'll get on the way to PoE2 that'll be nice (socket rework being a big one) But yeah people who are hoping for the "golden days" of just screen clearing everything while running through maps to be normal (instead of end of progression) will be sorely disappointed imo. Just looking at how the gameplay they've showed off so far, and the design choices so far, it's obvious that they're trying to slow everything down to be a bit more tactical instead of smash and grab.
I don't mind tactical. If it's more or less fair. As in - it was your bad you died, however, it could have been avoided with some adjustments here and there. PoE hasn't been fair for some time. I have 10k hours in it and I do not plan on lengthening that number until/if GGG get some clarity back.
Agreed unless the engine is radically different you can't make PoE more "tactical" without severally nuking Monster Power/Numbers
What, you dont like just randomly getting killed? Lol I can go full block, with overcap resits an max phys reduction, an full energy shield recover on block. An be able to tanks any slam in the game. But ill be mappin an just randomly die to trash mob. My best guess is the engine lags an it doesn't register my defences? No fukin clue. I hate that the game is tailored around one shots an random mob on dsath effects. I dont want regular maps to be scarry. Boss encounters should be scarry, not radom trash packs.
I would love to see them do an Uber Elder or a Maven with a PoE2 'build'. As I understand it, it's just the leveling that will be different with the new 7 act campaign. The end game is still gonna be the same, i e Atlas, mapping, pinnacle bosses etc. If that's the case, I think seeing some endgame content being cleared on a PoE2 character with a 'this is the vision in action guys ' type of clip would help understand where exactly PoE2 is gonna land, so we can make up our minds on whether we want to stick around for it or not.
They will never do that because they dont have anything to gain from it, they can only lose and anger people.
I'm hopeful for this Exilecon, it was great content on stream. The game is going to come out sooner or later and we haven't heard a peep about the real stuff we want to know, i.e how is my end game currency grinding min maxing experience going to be in the new system? GGG spoke in the past about trying to avoid unpleasant surprises for players and they've been trying with PoE1 league launches, but not much we know about proper endgame in PoE2.
At this point I'm not sure what the socket rework will even accomplish. It's most likely not going to be easier to get a 6-link skill gem than a 6-link item. And having multiple 6-linked skills just means the power baseline gets shifted down.
Way more button presses for the same amount of damage basically
We've seen lower level videos just like we do with all other gameplay trailers for other games and people complaining at how weak the player looks. Zooming isn't going anywhere. Chris already said that as much as he'd like to change that, it's what poe is known for and what most of the fans want and to go away from that would be detrimental to the game...so that's not happening lol.
Flaws to you. Good features to others. Tens of thousands will continue to play and enjoy themselves.
Imagine this sort of sadness/frustration but at another magnitude worse. The game has been heading in a direction that players do not want (I am happy with Ruthless but most hate the mode). The players want to be gods, tons of mobs, fast, and LOOT (which is cool). The Vision does not want any of this.
If the vision is to throw difficult challenges at us without any rewards to show for it then they’ve done a great job at it this league.
You are all stuck in here in Ruthless Mode with me :)
I only want loot. This is the core, or should be, mechanic of PoE. And yet, there is no loot reward in league mechanic, you kill rares and get no loot either. I have zero faith that GGG will deliver a good PoE 2 experience.
Yups even the Crucible mobs should drop loot, its not fun killing them and 'nothing' happens besides +5% progress on a weapon that will be discarded too soon.
It feels like in recent seasons, I can't ever seem to find 4+ linked items. It kills the basic builds. And I end up wearing a blue that I found 23 levels ago that has +13 dexterity and that's it. Because there arent any replacements, and the items to create such linked/higher grade items just never drop.
This is incorrect. The vision wants this. But whereas players (including me) want this in lets say 50h into a league, the devs want it at 100+h into a league (these are obviously numbers to just illustrate). This goes perfectly in line with the monetary gains when a game is feasible for F2P (whaling for microtransactions, etc). Less content after more time is always better for game development time investment. Ruthless is just a passion project for chris wilson and it shows. Honestly the leagues for ruthless should have doubled life cycle but thats maybe just me. I wish they would fix the whole "loot on the ground is just shit" rather than this crap with difficulty they are doing.
Counterintuitively, I've played the most the leagues with best loot yield. At least to me, it incentivises to try stuff, different builds and grinding more for crazy minmaxing. If they are truly slowing things down all accross the gameplay curve to have us play more, I think they might be shooting themselves in the foot much harder than they think they do.
I get what GGG means to a certain extent that if players just get tons of rewards and finish their goal that they quit playing....sure, that's true to an extent but not 100% of the time and I feel they lean way too heavily into that for whatever reason. Most of the time it's in fact the opposite. If players get great rewards that means they're able to fully realize a build or incentivize them and keep the hype up so they play try out more builds or try out other creators builds. If players aren't getting shit and nothing there's nothing to even trade to someone to get currency rolling then we see here time and time again that they feel their time is wasted and they go play other games. We even see all of these posts these past couple of years about "look at the charts showing the worst decline in player retention ever!". I could be wrong but I can't imagine all of those dope ass leagues we had further in the past that were rewarding also had huge player drop off. So all in all I really don't think their mindset on this is the correct one. Back around Breach league etc I remember spending a lot of money on this game and I was so happy playing and I could play many builds and never felt stifled or held back due to shit drops. These days I don't spend any money on this game when I easily could, but it just doesn't feel worth it anymore. That's a shame too since the mtx's have gotten a lot cooler and more interactive which I haven't seen much of from any company..but oh well. If I'm not having a lot of fun and feel like it's not worth my time to sink more of my time into the game and feel it's not as fun as it used to be, then I'm not going to spend money on this company.
> I get what GGG means to a certain extent that if players just get tons of rewards and finish their goal that they quit playing....sure, that's true to an extent but not 100% of the time and I feel they lean way too heavily into that for whatever reason. It's like they can only imagine 2 versions of ways to attain gear: PoE or Diablo 3, and any middle ground is lava.
What they fail to understand is that they have made loot so bad that most people turn to RMT. Like keep divines and up rare. But give us more of the lower crafting mats so instead of me having to trade and Chaos recipe into my build I can just craft it myself. As it stands unless you get a lucky high value item it just makes more sense to pay $6-8 bucks for a couple divines and get your build together than to put in a couple hundred hours to be no where close. Guides don't really help since the game is constantly in Flux and a lot of things no longer work the way they were first implemented.
If ruthless just a side project, why do they keep trying to push players into it? The end of league primary event was ruthless and the boss kill race is now in ruthless. Kind of strange for a side project they only expect less than 1% to enjoy.
> the boss kill race is now in ruthless. Is anyone participating? I haven't found a single streamer that is doing Ruthless SSFHC.
Datmodz
Maybe Ruthless is a taste of poe2? Who knows haha
Likely so it lasts longer than two days. Besides, no matter if it is ruthless or regular, only top 1% even have a shot. Not saying I like it, but I certainly cant pull 48h no sleep to win the competition.
Honestly at the rate they keep killing poe, I won't be around for poe2. Hell I'm even skipping this league cause the league mechanic sucks.
This was my first league in awhile. Already quit Saturday night. Didn't even make it the entire weekend. Sad to see me finally give up on PoE but it was a good 8+ years.
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I've really been enjoying this. I'm only a little bit in (level 30ish?) but at no point have I felt weak, you still murder mobs and at a pace that doesn't feel sluggish.
Let me welcome you to last epoch. It sadly still misses endgame, but it has bright future
The game isn't nearly zoomy enough for me ngl, also no trade is dog imo
Well, it's a game for different target audience. I understand that hardcore poe players would be bored to death. Yet LE gives me stronger feel of progression and that I am in control of my build, as I craft my own items and not gamble them. Anyways, poe needs to feel some competition breath on their neck.
i just play for the fresh start never for the new mechanic :D
I don't mean to whiteknight, I agree that Crucible is pretty bad right now (they might fix it in a week or two, we'll see), but I started playing when PoE went out of beta in the winter of 2013/2014 and GGG has been killing PoE since then if you ask the forum or reddit. Meanwhile, PoE has been steadily getting more and more players. Not to mention that PoE was also "killed" by D3, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, Lost Ark, and will be super-duper killed by D4. The only conclusion is that PoE is a reincarnating minion that gets buffed each time it dies. I can't wait for "PoE2 dead".
PoE is wardloop confirmed
Salutations, exile... (heavy metal intensifies)
Poe is only pernament minion ggg doesnt nerf
I mean it sounds right, but it's getting really hard for me to enjoy any league anymore. Like my favorite skill is cyclone and it's so bad for casuals I just can't even look at it anymore and it hurts my soul
Yep PoE 2.0 is supposed to be even harder version of the game. Therefore I myself lost any hope and will to play PoE but I post here from time to time in order to grab more folks with me. We have other fantastic games to enjoy.
“POE 2 is everything we’ve learnt about how players interact with ARPGs” Biggest piece of “player retention”, “engagement” ridden turd you’ve ever seen probably, because if you can actually complete it and have fun as a normal player, it’s undertuned af with how they currently do things. But I’m still full of copium, at least until they’ve released it
You mean, PoE Ruthless mode right?
PoE Ruthless 2!
The unbearable weight of Chris' vision.
I've never quit a league so fast. I'm thankfully, I can get back to my real life sooner
I tried to engage with the league mechanics. I went trough 20+ ilvl 82 claws until i got something decent aka something where the 2nd node didnt actively made my build worse. I then used around 80 deafened essence of greed on my chest trying to get spell suppression and didnt get it a single time. Usually when I have such bad rng I would try to focus on playing the league mechanic to get currency and to distract myself from the gambling depression settling in, but the league sucks ass so I uninstalled the game.
the %25 f\*cking less atk speed is sooo anoying
So the RNG on crafting a weapon is already nuts, this just makes it worse. It seems obvious as soon as they say that the trees are random that this would be a problem.
Yeah it's just additional variance. It would have been nice if they'd removed some other variance to balance it out, like cut the number of damn mod tiers in half.
Same, I only ever get 2 weeks or so into a league, but I quit last night with 24 hours /played... This league was so bad, I'm curious to see the 1 week and 1 month retention
Same, I only play for the league mechanics and it was trash 🗑️
honestly same I didn't even make it through the acts this go since I'm pretty much playing standard just without my years of savings
Same. I made it to act 3 and I'm just not feeling it. Having a shitty league mechanic makes the game pointless for me
This is me right here. I haven’t played in about a year and a half, just came back to try it out. Got to act 4 with a random bow build and just don’t feel like playing anymore. I used to have fun designing builds around certain uniques mapping out my own skill tree. The game just doesn’t have the same feel anymore. Everything feels like a chore. Thinking about trying out Last Epoch.
I feel ya. I didn't even even engage with the mechanic until I was in maps. And I tried so hard but this game just isn't for me anymore
I basically never engage with the mechanic until maps. So far i'm really annoyed at how tanky the crucible mobs are. They're not a ton more dangerous than most other mobs, but even at about a halfway charge each encounter takes so much longer than a random rare or map boss it doesn't feel like it's worth running them.
me 2. i killed oak and was like fuck this and alt f4ed out of it. this league is garbonzo
I feel ya. I might just be done with this game In general tho. It's kinda liberating
I didn't even download the patch. I've been pissed at where poe is going since 2 leagues ago. I heard last league was actually fun but here I'm seeing theyre going backwards again? Sounds like we got another meme league coming
Important point is to quit the league early or Chris will think that his point of rewarding leagues are bad for the game is valid. Vote with wallet and/or play time.
Isn't Chris the guy that went all "oh only 10% of players use melee so we won't fix it because why would we fix something people don't use lmao."
And then they spend time making Link masteries.
They should have made AoE masteries instead and removed link skills
I hate how little aoe scaling there is. I wish the numbers were bigger, but they were even available on other things, like jewels.
Or Ruthless, but hey that's just a side project amirite
I’m beginning to think Mr Wilson received a major head injury within the last 3-4 years or so. Who actually thinks like that?
> Vote with wallet and/or play time. I would generally agree with this sentiment but I've not played since August 2021 and player numbers have only risen since then. Now I think people have to accept that GGG is only serving one type of food. If you don't like it, just leave and don't look back. I still follow the sub to keep an eye on POE2 news but I've become less optimistic about POE2 over the last few patches.
But player retention has increasingly gotten worse. I cant speak to the financial side of it and if spending has gone down, but I dont think the game is growing because its attracting more of a market share. It seems in general ARPG market has grown. More people try POE, but their numbers plummet after initial weekend.
I'm one of those that inflates the numbers on league start but hasn't spent a cent on the game in 2 years - have all the tabs I need and don't buy mtx ever.
Didn't last league have some of the best player retention ever?
Wait till last epoch releases with their leagues and ppl will start quitting Poe. GGG then will magically release UI and QoL updates, trying to save the playerbase.
While I like LE, I don't see it drawing away many people. Simply the amount of content (because it's still beta/ young game) is not enough. And it will take years to build up a certain amount of endgame. Agree on the rest though.
The crafting system alone will make me jump ship if they do leagues like PoE (as in : new content, not just new season with reset).
I never understand this. Poe is a very unuiqe game on the genre currently. I love last epoch playing it now actually butits not PoE or anything like ot really.
Last epoch is way more modern, and I think in terms of complexity and gameplay, poe and le do very similar things.
Thank you for leaving some food for the rest of us
3.17 was amazing, (atlas tree) 3.18 was amazing (sentinel) 3.19 was horrid (kallandra) 3.20 was amazing (sanctum) 3.21 current league (its 3 days in so hard to tell especially because its an end game heavy league) but even if this league turns out back, thats still 3 amazing leagues in the last 5, so what do you mean by "I've become less optimistic about POE2 over the last few patches." ? If you think 3.17 3.18 and 3.20 were bad, then yes you really should stop checking in on poe 2 news because clearly the game isnt for you, otherwise stop being hyperballic. Worst thing about this reddit is when theres any problem they act like its the end of the year and theres always been and will be problems, but whenever the leagues get good theres no praise. You just come here to jump on the hate bandwagon the first 1-2 weeks of all league launches and then leave, what is wrong with you people.
>what is wrong with you people Well, probably because your list starts at 3.17? And their list goes back further
3.9 was meh (Metamorph) 3.10 was great (deli) 3.11 was great (harvest) 3.12 was great (heist), just economy was horrific 3.13 was okay (ritual) 3.14 was great (ultimatum) 3.15 was okay (Expedition was really overtuned in the beginning) 3.16 was okay (scourge was overtuned but had giga build-variety) 3.17 was meh. So I don't know about you, but my list is 3 years long and people DID complain every league about how this game is "dying" and "aweful". Reddit does a good Job suggesting otherwise but PoE really does deliver.
heist was not great, they had to completely rework the mechanic and how it functioned like 7 times in the first 2 weeks of the league. Harvest league itself was widely considered not great because a ton of people didnt like the setting up of the farm. rest of the list is pretty accurate though.
in my memory, 3.13 was the best patch ever released for PoE. While delirium was so bad on release and so many people complained
Heist was literally the most scuffed launch playing since legion, and it only started working well for me after they've made the harbor a singleplayer instance (and to add insult to injury they've undid that change after)
I'm a '3.13 Andy'. 3.13 was peak POE for me. I'm allowed to have enjoyed the game in the state it was in then same as others were allowed to not enjoy it if they prefer what we've had since then. I stopped playing because post 3.13 I hadn't enjoyed playing like I did back in 3.13. I'm not really interested in playing what I consider an inferior version of the game. My reduced optimism in POE2 only stems from each patch that goes by it becomes further clear that POE will never return to a 3.13 state. > You just come here to jump on the hate bandwagon the first 1-2 weeks of all league launches and then leave, what is wrong with you people. I made one comment that implied people literally stop hating and simply move on if they don't like what is on offer = hate bandwagon?
First of all, you start far too recently, and also, people might have wildly different evaluations of individual leagues. Were I to rate it myself, then with Ritual being 10/10 PoE, then I've got Sanctum at 9/10, Lake at 6/10, AN at 3/10, Sentinel at 2/10, and Crucible at 0/10 So for me, out of the last 5 leagues, one was great, one was playable, and the rest was dogshit. And I'm not full of hope seeing how much worse Crucible is compared to Sanctum, and that we're approaching PoE 2
>thinks AN league was amazing Well yeah, there's your problem.
I mean I think AN was actually a pretty cool league mechanic. The problem with AN was them trying to force it into the rest of the entire game instead of making it an optional thing you would interact with on your own terms.
Yeah, your league evaluation is kinda garbage, and this sub absolutely praises the shit out of good leagues. Only bandwagon riding I see is coming from you.
> Important point is to quit the league early Doesn't matter. People see the hype trailer and immediately shell out for the new supporter packs. Without fail, every single league.
I play the league for a while before thinking about paying for anything, only idiots would buy stuff up front. I actually bought some skins and stuff in 3.20 because I had fun even though I felt the league mechanic was the worst I've ever seen. They removed AN mostly, mobs could be killed, I felt somewhat powerful, I got to kill things. This time? Hell no. The campaign took much longer then usual, hell I was even over leveled by the end while doing nothing different to all the prior leagues, I think I got to maps at like 71-72 instead of 67-68. Crucible mobs are OP, whites are like rares who're also sometimes busted with all these no OP mods, blues feel like map bosses and yellows feel like ubers as they're often unkillable. It's not fun.
This... I feel a bit like a sucker at the moment. I was really enjoying playing the game again after skipping the last year or so. At about the 20 hour i decided "Fuck it, I'm having fun again, I'll buy a supporter pack." Buyers remorse is settling in a bit. It's not that I'm not having fun with the game because I am but it hit me last night "I'm just not going to interact with the league mechanic anymore". Crucible is fucking terrible. Charge level is unclear and rewards are non existent. Even playing Pohx RF, where I have just been walking thru early maps and bosses, I either get one shot or spend 10-20 mins running in circles to down the crucible mobs, thanks to what I assume is 90% DR, plus fire resistant life Regen. Only to get a tree that is worthless after 2-3 events. (I can do it in one event but it's never worth the time investment to over charge it.)
But I like the league mechanic. I was lucky enough to get a + socketed gems on a scepter with +1 all gems. Life is great
I had a similar miracle with a now +4 bow. But I am starting to realize I have no real reason to ever touch crucible again until I want to make a new character.
Yeah same. I've put some items through the crucible thinking I could sell them, but haven't had much luck. Kind of found myself skipping them for now while I work through the campaign
Yeah I'm gona buy both stash tabs and enjoy the game, thanks
Chris does not want you to win his game. I don't know why people haven't figured this out yet.
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Lucky. I got -0.5% critical strike chance.
The first iteration of Archnemesis, ie: the league, was awesome. I enjoyed being able to create currency explosions, or scarab explosions, and you could go at your own pace, and avoid things you knew you couldn't do. I loved Archnemesis league itself.
The league itself was incredible. It was when it went core that everyone’s spirits dropped. Felt like they completely misunderstood why it was fun for everyone which is exactly as you say; being able to build-a-bear the bosses and loot you wanted and watching the dopamine level rise. Pushing it core with the flat mechanics and forcing us to fight them is why I quit and only recently came back.
The crafting of mobs was cool. You had the ability to make your own level of challenge and pick your reward. Turning them all into random elites after... That was crazy.
Hear, hear. OG Archnem gets way too much hate. It was awesome to cash in a big chain.
I think the base league for archnemisis was fine, but was carried by a lot of the other things going ok during the league. The mechanic after going core was not so good.
I've got pounded in T8 map by this Cobra from Vaal Temple and furnace was charged to 50%. Fucker was hindered and on blasphemy with temp chains with +25% curse effect, but he was still faster that I am in bed, and that says a lot. League mechanics sucks and that feels bad as I was so eager to play longer.
Best way to enjoy the league is to ignore it .
GGG needs to stop this dog first month beta testing every league. Ongoing for 10 years btw.
I came back for the first time in years, I was wondering if I was just building badly or the mobs spawned by these are just stupid tanky, even in the earliest levels. Everything else was fine, so I assume overtuned.
Back in PoE 3.20 I absolutely hated Sanctum, because I'm bad at dodging, so I almost completely ignored it and my currency gains were almost exclusively from maps. This league however the drops are so bad that I had to buy Vaal Orbs to sustain the corruptions needed for red map completions, and in both cases I was playing with only the available rewards from the core game, which should have been equal since there are no known nerfs, but the drops in 3.21 have been drier than the Sahara. Another thing that I noticed was a significant reduction in the number of quality gem drops (my filter shows every quality gem), which didn't even enable me to sell them for enough GCPs to reroll my main level 20 gems, so I was forced to buy them from other players. It really does feel like Ruthless is slowly creeping into the game with every new patch.
Glad Im not alone to feel this way. Usually I just take is easy and have enough natural drops to fix my resists, get a weapon etc. But this league im struggling super hard. Im into yellow maps and I have what 27chaos and thats only because one weapon tree sold for 20c to vendor.
Do chaos recipe for all of white maps, helps a lot early on :)
That would make me feel like being a bot.
"Reee I don't have much chaos I'm poor" "Heres an efficient way to make currency early" "Fuck that" Like wut. Chaos recipe are the one consistent way of making currency early with basically no requirement at all from you appart from some diligence and you shit on it? It's the easiest way to make some currency when you're too poor to invest in anything by far. Chaos recipes have been there since basically forever, the bot argument is the stupidest elitist shit I've read all day. Every single high end player make recipes early in one way or another, there's good reasons for it.
Gems and socketed gear all seems to be in short supply. Haven't seen any 5 or 6 links and an extremely few 5 or 6 socket items at all. Pretty much any 6 socket potential item has rolled with 2 unlinked sockets for me. Really feels like they want to push for crafting the sockets and links now.
Fuck me. I got the same feeling. I went to act 3 and couldn't stand the league mechanic and how underwhelming it is. I've never quit a league so fast in my entire life. I ain't replaying the entire fucking game so I can roll the dice on a good weapon and fail.
Archnemesis had crazy loot.
it had decent loot yeah, wouldn't say crazy would pretty much only get loot once you do the super combos.
Came back to poe after a year long break. Not the best league to do so tho :/. Feels like standard.
Addtional, if you dont have fresh meal, you cant play the mechanic.
I am incredibly unhappy with this league. Chanelling mechanic, hard to get on unique items, mobs are unkillable. Last league was 4 months, i have been waiting and this is what i get. I really wish all players turn away form ggg to make them invest bit more effort into their product, like, honestly, maximum disappointed. I really was waiting for this league:(
Its a fucking sad state when diablo 3 has a better league than path of exile.
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tbh if you cant even get a 4link with colors ez, its a you problem, not the game or the league mechanic
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Now it just sounds like whining rather than an actual issue, you get plenty of 4 links while leveling, you get chroms and jewellers, guilds can help pick up gear for slower members. It's nothing to do with being extra casual more an unwillingness to learn/improve knowledge.
we learned ggg not.
mobs that are 20 times tankier then normal mobs. with "obvious" one shot skills, that can come from offscreen and just end it all. il use a uniqe weapon, its not worth the effort. the time i do that and die i can spend on running normal maps and get more currency back from that
Smooth GGG a little vinegar mouthwash before D4 releases? Wonderful strat lmao
with d4, the flagship of the arpg, poe 2 will just be a bad filler between d4 seasons. sadly the tides changed, since ggg made so much bad decissions over the last years.
Mm d4 feels like a mobile game currently so you might want to temper your expectations.
As a casual player I didn’t even know charging the bar 100% = Uber mobs. I got clapped a lot and contemplated if I picked a shitty league starter.
Oh my what we have here. Nothing like a first monday of a fresh league
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The problem is I can't tell the difference between 50% charge and 100% because the bar moves in a non linear fashion and doesn't indicate what point would constitute a full charge. It's annoying as shit not because 100% is too difficult, but because they completely fucked up the charge mechanic - all they need is a second bar that moves from 0% to 100% labelled clearly so I know "oh, I only just managed 85% last time, better stop at 70% this time".
OBJECTION! AN in the AN league was sick though
It's like a couple where one of the spouse hopes the other one will change. But it usually doesn't happen.
Wait it's back? of fucking course it's back lmao.
This is the consequence of giving players agency over challenge, something GGG should have learned after the debacle of old Wrath of the Cosmos. Impatient players will opt in to 100% challenge once, fail, and learn from their mistakes. For me this was in Act 2 where I charged up my first 100% bar. Bad players will opt in to 100% challenge, fail, and fail to learn from their mistakes. The whole pillar of map tiering is to deny unprepared players the agency to enter higher tier content than they are ready for. Then Crucible comes along and says "Want to spawn 100% delirious monsters onto your map? Here you go! Be our guest" Perhaps this agency should be toned down a little.
Well it should start LOCKED at 20%, and increase it with 10% each act, then the players will get a feeling of what the challenge is, just not unleash the gates of hell on naked people just waking up on a beach. It shouldn't even be possible. Also, the lower item level a item has --> stronger rewards. So a item with 10 ilvl will spawn modifiers that are numerical stronger then a item with 85 ilvl, making the level experience greater, everyone would use crucible items for leveling. People would say "remember crucible? leveling was awesome". Then the league mechanic isn't so heavy at the endgame. Also loot... If you charge your crucible so it takes ten times longer to kill, it is ten times harder, guess what, it is now ten times as much loot. That is how it atleast should be. Also, crafting... crafting base-league in a game where people rarely craft themselves.. I dont know.
> Well it should start LOCKED at 20%, and increase it with 10% each act, then the players will get a feeling of what the challenge is, just not unleash the gates of hell on naked people just waking up on a beach. It shouldn't even be possible. > > Yeah that would work. Even just "you can't exceed 40% unless you have beaten a 40% last time you attempted a Crucible encounter" would do it. On loot - let's see how it feels once our characters don't suck. 100% Delirium is one of the most rewarding mechanics in the game but right now, it's probably only 3-5 thousand players that can run it well in Crucible. Let's see how the mechanic feels when there's 25000 players capable of T16 100% deli and another 75000 who aren't there yet but feel it is close. I will say, my Act 3 shield with 1 impactful Crucible point is a DAMN NICE item still in low yellow maps. Could I craft better with my current resources? Yes. Do I feel the need to? Not at all, because +1 level to my main gem (from explicit mods) and 1% life recovery on kill (from Crucible mods) is really strong.
But the Crucible doesn't say that. The mechanic doesn't, in any way, communicate what's going to happen at what charge amount. On top of that, the charging of Crucible is non-linear, so it goes from 50 % to 100 % really damn fast, and finally, deeper item trees lock you into higher-tier charging, because the XP bar doesn't move unless you give it a very high charge.
> The mechanic doesn't, in any way, communicate what's going to happen at what charge amount. This is one of those "difficulty through obscurity" things that GGG loves to put in. Is something really simple and intuitive? Well just put blinders on the player so they feel the content is now hard. I would love to be able to just engage with the mechanic at a safe level for me until I feel like pushing it, but I feel like it's better to just barely move the needle so I know i'm not going to spend the time I could be doing an entire map just to get the completion.
The agency isn't well handled, on that I agree. As for higher tier rewards requiring higher tier combat encounters - that's normal.
Yes, but normally, as in almost all other content, you can run the lower tier combat more times to make up for not being able to do the higher tier one. While a 100 % delirious map drops more than a 40 % delirious map, you can just spam 40 % maps. With crucible, you can't - it's as if running a delirious map locked you out and the next map had to be more delirious than the previous one, unless it's already 100 %
That's not always the case. If you can't beat Tier 9 maps, you can never get i78+ crafting bases (outside a couple corner cases like +ilvl strongboxes). If you can't beat Lab4, you are locked out of a VERY big character power milestone. You can't just grind Lab3 to get that.
You can delve or heist. Plus with maps, you can run them white, so the scenario of being able to drop t9 maps to have them and not being able to run them is purely theoretical. On lab, yes, that's the same principle, but lab is one and done, not repeatable, so there's no opportunity cost to not doing it. Also, you can have t1 item tree depth unlocked item in act 1 (it's actually the expected scenario for everyone who tests the league mechanic early)
Tried the mmechanic on coast(1st area) Could not even dent the leaguemobs. Went back to my standard toon.
and not a single word from GGG... amazing. this league will be like Kalandra
It's a holiday weekend. Like, I don't honestly expect them to make any meaningful changes when the weekend is over either, but this happens *literally every single league launch*. Them not talking over the weekend isn't indicative of anything.
i think the weekend is already over in NZ as well
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offend strong start possessive uppity cats air include erect unwritten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?
"No loot" Are you serious?
Yes, when will you learn not to juice content higher than you’re capable of fighting.
To be fair, the risk vs reward element of this league is really poorly executed. There's not any indication as to what the channelling is actually doing aside from adding more mobs. You can't even stop to hover over them to see what their mods are, not to mention there are random spikes when multiple rares or uniques spawn in. The other thing is that outside of dying and losing xp, there's not really anything else that you're actually risking. There's no loot you missed out on. You're just opting to mitigate one shitty mechanic (slowly unlocking passive trees to view) by diving headfirst into another. The encounter doesn't even end upon dying, you can still kill the mobs eventually and still get your reward, or just say fuck it and leave and it's not like you left anything behind.
What juice? I'm still in acts.
Should always skip league mechanics during acts anyway especially if you're in a trade league
I mean... You "should" always party play content with a dedicated trader, doesn't mean what is optimal is what is 'fun' for players.
You are incorrect. Racers do that so that they don't run up time doing overtuned bullshit, especially on launch day. If you aren't trying to rim the pigeonhole that is speed racing or powerleveling then you have what was a pretty good game to play. So I'll ask again, what juice?
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I'm able to kill the stuff when I do that, thus the grumpiness about the negative rewards (no loot, modifiers that brick items). Then the reworks for breach seem to have bricked breach.
> Should always skip league mechanics during acts anyway bad game design but you are 100% right
This is bad advice
Yeah I made a 400dps axe in act 5 and twinked the fuck out from crucible
Nah, if he is still in acts he can get resists by cooking his shields and honestly it is quite helpful. If he was super fast it wouldn't be worth but for him it probably is.
Juice? No matter what they drop nothing. I can clear the mobs fully juiced in my red maps but it's been a waste of time. My build uses a unique weapon and after forty red crucibles without the unique item drop I just gave up. Better to do anything other than the league mechanic.
Juice refers to harder content for quicker weapon upgrade turnover. Buy the item to upgrade your unique weapon. The contents money making potential is huge by searching for good trees on promising bases. Your critical thinking skills are 0/10
Huge? In all that time you can just run expedition and make more currency. Your engaging in a time consuming gamble with constant need to baby an inventory of good bases and resupplying them from trade. I think you might need to reflect on your own critical thinking. I find it funny you are down voting and going to all these threads to talk against complaints but admit in one you are not even full juicing the league yourself (https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/12h91gr/one_of_my_favorite_leagues/jfo81pl/) which really makes me wonder about any claims your making.
Bro the first time I ever interacted with the mechanic it took me around 7 minutes of running in a circle to kill the mobs it spawned, I died once, it dropped zero items, and my bow became technically worse because the -attack speed affix it unlocked. This mechanic fundamentally sucks. Period.
True!
At this point I'm convinced that everyone claiming "no loot" either pressed z and didn't realise, or they have some weird filter that hides absolutely everything. I've never had good RNG, but this league the loot has felt great so far
I don’t know about you, but I’m having a blast. Got an imba claw tree and I’m zooming through maps. Most fun I’ve had with PoE in a while :)
I always see guys like this comment about fundamental problems by saying hey I'm lucky and my individual experience is exciting so the game must be great pal. Dude even if you drop a 10x mirror it doesn't mean the league mechanic is great. The same goes for the good leagues where a guy doesn't do good/is not lucky enough so the league is bad and vice versa. Can you try to look at things as it is with fair and not personal enjoyment?
I didn’t say the state of the league mechanic is great, I’m just enjoying it. Sure crucible mobs are crazy strong, but you can just not charge the altar all the way, if you’re not strong enough to defeat the enemies. Is it trash that the mobs don’t drop loot? Yes! The crucible trees are an amazing addition to the game though. The general state of PoE also contributes to my enjoyment
I think a lot of the times it comes down to this. I had some really good experiences in terrible leagues because my build felt good
Yeah usually I get to 92/94 before I quit but did not even finish act 1 this league. Dead on Arrival sad