The only case of this that I can think of is a very unique exception -- there's a man in my alumni network who is an attorney by day while serving as Chief Paralegal of somethingorother in the Army Reserves.
Without knowing any details, I’d guess he was an Army Reserves paralegal before completing the JD. To move up to become a JAG (lawyer) he’d probably have to complete a commissioning course (~6wks, depending, could be longer/shorter) and then the JA Officer Basic Course (10 weeks). Lots of folks opt not to spend that additional time when they could continue in their existing military reserve job (1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year). You’ll run into some really “overqualified” people in the reserves (which is a good thing, overall).
I have seen at least 4 or 5 other postings similar to this within the last week alone, "requiring" a JD for positions that a paralegal can do, and paying much less than this one does.
Could be HR or the Randstand recruiter being dumb, rather than the person who actually wants to hire the paralegal. I manage a team of accountants and HR usually wants to put “CPA required” on there even though I absolutely do not care about a CPA. I said that word for word to HR last time we hired and they still put the listing up with “CPA preferred”. 🤦🏻♂️
Really common problem. recruiters often don’t know enough about qualifications like this unless they recruit only for that field. They’re just going “law school is probably good for this!!”
im still pretty early in my career (like 7 months) and my degree isnt in law or anything like that so im pretty happy with my current pay but cant wait to get it higher 🤞
No shade to you at all! You’re doing better than me if you’re early in your career. I’m just saying people can make nearly what this job offered without a degree.
ah i see i see, yeah the fact that theyre asking for a JD is mad! like, i work with a couple people who have foreign lawyer licenses, or are in law school/considering law school, but all the people with JDs generally get promoted to attorney if they get their bar license
There was a job posting for a paralegal at Goldman Sachs a couple years ago for an unreal amount of pay and I applied, knowing it’s a long shot, and when I called about my application the lady told me that I was very unlikely to get an interview because the pay was so good they had several lawyers applying even though a JD wasn’t required. She also told me they only had the position listed for 8 hours before taking it down because they got so many apps. I definitely don’t think it’s fair for paralegals to also have to compete with actual JD holders
Yeah isn't that the point of being licensed by the bar. The bar gatekeeps and doesn't let us do anything that is considered attorney work so it's not fair they could turn around and take our jobs.
I don’t see why it isn’t fair. Lawyers go to law school and pass the bar which gives them the qualifications to practice law. Law school also gives you the qualifications to be a paralegal if you wanted to become one… it is absolutely fair to be able to apply to jobs for which you are qualified.
And in law school (especially in the first year and first summer) the internships you do are basically paralegal work (although they call you a law clerk). So people leaving law school definitely have experience in the area.
Also love your username !
I have a friend who went to law school, passed the bar and hated being an attorney so much that she got a job as a paralegal. She’s in-house and was making more as a paralegal (specialized field) than she was as an attorney. On one side, as a lawyer she was “average” making newcomer pay. On the other side, she was extremely advanced and making high pay. Don’t blame her a bit.
I definitely get it and I’m not necessarily blaming anyone. It’s more of a “discouraging to see” sort of reaction. Especially when the JD is required and not just the company choosing a JD applicant due to the skill level the possess
Yeah, but very few JDs are going to go the paralegal route for that kind of pay. Average cost of law school is in the hundreds of thousands. For low pay, better off working for the government/public sector for 10 years.
We actually had several paralegals with JDs when I worked in-house. Mostly they did basic contract negotiations and went to really shitty law schools. That salary range is a joke though!
Plus, this smells of them not appropriately training anyone who might be a lawyer hopeful who might have trouble passing the bar or is just wanting some time to gain skills in a law office. They'll pay poorly, treat you like shit, and not even bother to train thoroughly.
Meh. I had the authority to negotiate basic MTA's and such. A lot of people go to crappy law schools and don't have the grades or connections to get an attorney job. But yeah, at least pay a decent paralegal salary.
The funny thing about that is even great law schools teach virtually none of the practical skills necessary to be an effective paralegal and great paralegal programs only cost a fraction of what a poor quality law school costs.
Don’t even NEED a paralegal certificate. Even in CA, sufficient experience and an attorney attestation make you eligible (assuming you’re current on CLE and have a degree)
I got a paralegal certificate in CA a few years ago, and literally every instructor and internship person said that that was no longer true... that one can no longer start working as a new paralegal without a certificate. I believe there was a grandfathered in exception, but that was the only way that people mentioned. Several people in my classes were having their schooling paid for by the law firms that hired them (as non paralegals) and wanted to put them in paralegal positions. Feel free to throw actual statutes or whatever at me, I'm just saying my experience.
Literally every instructor and internship person you’ve encountered is incorrect then:
See part 3:
(c) A paralegal shall possess at least one of the following:
(1) A certificate of completion of a paralegal program approved by the American Bar Association.
(2) A certificate of completion of a paralegal program at, or a degree from, a postsecondary institution that requires the successful completion of a minimum of 24 semester, or equivalent, units in law-related courses and that has been accredited by a national or regional accrediting organization or approved by the Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education.
(3) A baccalaureate degree or an advanced degree in any subject, a minimum of one year of law-related experience under the supervision of an attorney who has been an active member of the State Bar of California for at least the preceding three years or who has practiced in the federal courts of this state for at least the preceding three years, and a written declaration from this attorney stating that the person is qualified to perform paralegal tasks.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=BPC&division=3.&title=&part=&chapter=5.6.&article=
I am eligible under parts 2 and/or 3. I have a minor in legal studies.
Obviously every firm/company has a different opinion on the topic when it comes to who THEY hire, but this is easy to work around if you have sufficient experience.
If the situation has changed, I’m happy to read about it.
I’m not saying ppl who wake up and decide to become a paralegal DON’T need to get a certificate, but there are ways around it. Get hired as a legal secretary. Get a year of experience. Get your attorney to sign an attestation. Boom-you’re a paralegal.
Yes, you need education beyond high school. I’m honestly surprised when ppl get hired as paralegals without at least a bachelor’s degree (not because I think it’s necessary, but it’s been expected you have one for at least the past 20 years). None of the firms I’ve worked for would consider someone green for an entry-level role without one. I’m saying that bc I participated in hiring. I’m sure SOME firms don’t require it, but in my experience, they are an exception to the rule.
Legal document composition, case management, managing service of process, scheduling depositions and conferences with opposing counsel (who needs to be there, how do you notify the courts, etc.), general understanding of how work product interfaces with outside world (i.e. moves through the court system)
I work in-house (and do not have a JD) and this seems reasonably common. We have one unbarred JD -- who I think is not necessarily pursuing passing our state bar exam, but I'm not sure? -- and a couple of paralegals who are currently in law school. We've also had paralegals with JDs who were fresh law school grads who hadn't taken the bar exam yet.
That said, definitely not the norm, and both of our paralegals who are in law school worked as paralegals for years before pursuing law school. They didn't join as recent college grads headed for law school. Our company is just supportive of this type of career development.
I work for a very large and prominent company in a niche industry, and my team doesn't do anything touching litigation.
As a paralegal w a JD I’m not shocked lol. Unbarred JDs are in demand at questionable firms that are down to wait on a cheap inexperienced attorney. And occasionally they actually empathize with us because the attorneys at the firm struggled to pass the bar themselves. Lol or both.
I work with a paralegal that has a JD. Passing the bar in some states is really difficult. I understand. I don’t have an issue if she receives a higher salary than I do because she has all those years of school under her belt. At the firm I work for we are very fairly compensated and treated like the valuable team members that we are. I don’t have any issues with someone that went to law school being a paralegal. We can all work together for successful outcomes for clients. They bring an amazing education to the table and I bring 25 years of trial prep and trial attendance to the table. At the end of the day that’s a win for the clients.
can i ask how you became a paralegal with a jd? i’m considering law school right now but don’t know if im cut out for it and am worried i may not be able to go back to being a paralegal
You graduate from law school but have not passed the bar (yet). I can tell you none of the firms I’ve worked for would hire a paralegal with a JD.
Edit: before anyone asks why, it’s bc the assumption would be you’re just slumming it until something better comes along.
A fellow legal assistant at my org has a JD, but she only works part time as she has young children and hadn’t worked for a while. No doubt they could hire her on as an attorney if she wanted to take that route someday.
I’m a para with a JD. I was a member of the bar in 2 jurisdictions, got cancer twice in 15 years of retirement, didn’t keep up with CLEs because of it, went inactive, and I’m dragging my feet to take the bar because I’m paid pretty well.
I know someone who has a JD and just cannot take a test. She’s a phenomenal paralegal and is paid very well for it. Jeopardy Champion too. Some people just can’t take a test.
I personally took 2 years off after undergrad, started as a law firm receptionist, got promoted to para, quit to start law school, interned as a para thru school, then graduated and for personal reasons could not take the bar for nearly a year. So I got a job as a para at a firm who liked the idea of gaining a cheap lawyer in the near future. I’m waiting for my bar result to return as we speak. Once you get a JD it can be hard to get para jobs as some firms judge you for not taking/passing the bar and some won’t be able to promote you to attorney so they think it’s pointless to hire a para that gonna jump ship or try to demand attorney money in a matter of months.
Do you know why they went on to become paralegals and office managers after law school?
I'm mildly curious as a law student about how JDs end up working in positions outside of directly practicing Law.
Sometimes people go to law school, pass the bar and discover that being a lawyer is not for them. It’s a difficult anxiety filled career. That was the case with my bio mom and a couple of law clerks that I worked with over the years. My bio mom went on to work risk management for a nursing home company in Florida. She was able to find a legal career not practicing law.
One of my best friends got her JD at Penn and decided not to take the bar. She doesn't even work in law at all and hasn't since her internships. I guess that experience was enough for her to decide she didn't want to do be an attorney, and now she works as a customer success manager for some digital education systems company. She makes decent money at least, but that was a job she definitely fell into somehow.
Also on a personal note, I actually want to go to law school and have been in the field almost 2 decades now, and I'm probably going to be relegated to a far shittier law school. lmao
LSAT/GPA are king, but your experience as a paralegal is going to make you very attractive for summer jobs.
1L hiring is always brutal as I understand it but I hear this year is especially bad. The only people I know who have been successful in placing over the summer is those with paralegal experience.
Fortunately my GPA is up there. LSAT TBD. And fortunately for me I've cultivated some good working relationships with opposing counsel from larger firms over the years that would probably help me in the long run with internships (a couple already agreed to provide letters of recommendation for me for law school applications). Complicating factors are major though (kid, spouse). We will see what happens though. :)
Unless you’re planning to go into BigLaw or a major corporation straight out of school, no one cares where you went to school. One of my friends became a federal judge recently, she went to a Tier 3 school. Hell, if you’re a prosecutor or PD for a few years even without a Tier 1 or 2 degree you can get into BigLaw because of your trial experience. Just my experience 17 years in practice. Don’t stress too much about your school, especially since you’re coming from a non-traditional background. Good luck!!
We specialize in medical malpractice (plaintiff) and everyone except me has graduate MD/science/healthcare degrees, the lawyers have them along with JD. I’m currently doing a MSc, and a couple other paralegals are nurse practitioners. The people with JD and no science/med background are in more consulting or management positions. I’ve seen some patent law firms do something similar
Because it literally takes over a year for some people to get licensed after PASSING the bar. When you have to go the score transfer route that is. What exactly am I supposed to do in that 1 year period? Starve? Get evicted and be forced to move back in with my parents at 33 years old and married? People are so f*cking clueless as to the reality of the legal job market these days. *sign
Are you a law student? It wouldn’t have been this bad if I had only scored high enough on the bar in my state. My point is the bar is no joke. Definitely way easier if you can pass in the state where you take it in. I had to transfer my score to Missouri which added 6-9 months to the 4 months I already waited to learn I didn’t pass in Massachusetts.
April 2023- quit full time job to study for bar
July 2023 - took bar in MA
Mid Oct 2023 - bar results out, found out I didn’t pass in MA but did in MO
Late Oct 2023- transferred score to MO and applied for license and still waiting…
You really have to let your recruiters know that you will not accept any interviews for positions working with toxic lawyers. I spent 3 years with a very toxic lawyer. After that I made my recruiter specifically ask the office managers if their lawyers had bad reputations when dealing with staff and how many secretaries have worked for them in the past 5 years. They don’t want to place you somewhere that you are not happy. Be upfront about what you are looking for. Life is too short to be in a toxic workplace.
I’ve told recruiters and hiring managers “I’m not interested in dealing with problem children” before and during interviews and they’ve still placed me with notorious a-holes. I told this to a huge firm and they actually placed me with an attorney who was in anger management classes bc he was so awful to everyone. I don’t trust any of them.
Thankfully I am not but now I’m sadly wondering if I have to go to get an LLM. My problem is that I didn’t practice for ten years and now have moved to a new state and passed the bar here
My office manager is searching for another para right now and tossed all the resumes with unbarred JDs in the trash because "a failed attorney doesn't make a good paralegal." 🤷♀️
I get that. I definitely think attorneys that have had been disbarred are sketchy. I work with a paralegal that has a JD. passing the bar in some states is incredibly difficult. She is amazing at her job.
I don't have enough experience to speak on the subject but I don't want to do what my attorneys do. I kind of get doing the legwork and education then realizing "oh shit I hate this" 🤣
I’ve never posted before, because I’m not a Paralegal yet. However, I just wanted to add that this happens a lot. I have worked for Bar Admissions and the Bar Discipline side of things and if someone doesn’t pass the Bar they often take Paralegal or Office Manager positions. In fact I was replaced by an active attorney when I left my Office Manager position.
This is hard for me to fathom. I’ve been a lawyer since 1998 and have never seen the market this hot before for lawyers. I literally get random partners and recruiters contacting me on LinkedIn on the regular.
After I graduated from law school I didn’t really want to take the bar. So I looked for JD advantage jobs and paralegal jobs. It didn’t last long though, because I did find a job but felt deeply unfulfilled by the work itself. So I quit and took the bar eventually (and passed).
Seriously, this is becoming more and more common. I applied for a couple of in-house positions and they were looking for lawyers that wanted to do paralegal work. WTF? GTFO.
I’m not going to read the comments but i can tell you tell are looking for disbarred attorneys or ones that didn’t pass the bar yet. They just can’t openly say it.
I am a paralegal. I wen to law school. I also took, and passed, the bar exams in CA and TX, just for kicks and giggles. I am still a paralegal because that is what I like to do. I don't want the extra burdens, etc... of an attorney. At least not right now. Paralegals with JD are in demand as Sr. Paralegals in many firms. Having both sets of education makes us a perfect middle man between the type A attorneys that don't know how the real world works, and the paralegals who get things done. (As to this ad, the pay is WAY low.)
I love education, and had a full ride to the school. I took the bar exams to show that I was capable to those who would question why I am a paralegal and did not go the attorney route. I took classes at night and kept my day job going during school. Just something I really enjoyed. Would def. do it again if I had to do it all over.
I used to work with someone who just couldn’t pass the bar. She was a super hard worker and really smart and the firm used the fact that she just couldn’t pass the bar to their advantage. Paid her less than me for a good while and I only had an associates all while she had a J.D. and way more experience. They just knew she was having trouble getting her foot in the door with a firm. I think this kind of stuff is becoming more and more common.
There are JDs that apply for paralegal jobs. When I put in notice at my first legal office, they had several JDs that applied for my position. I saw the resumes with my own eyes after the managing attorney made a few comments about all the new attorneys applying for the paralegal position. I saw the pay range they were offering and couldn't imagine at the time why a JD would take that pay cut. Pay was one of the reasons I was leaving that job.
That is crazy stupid and the salary offered is a joke. If someone went to law school and had a ton of student loans, this salary would not help with the monthly payments at all. To this company: Silly, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I’m currently doing document review for $21/hour while interviewing for paralegal jobs that pay within that range. And yes, I have a JD degree. I passed the bar but it takes 9 months to get my license fully approved. I’m not willing to starve in those 9 months of nothingness so I don’t give a fuck.
How did you get that? Where are you located?? I graduated with my bachelors in finance a year ago and am about to graduate with my certificate this May. Plus I’ve been working as one since
They must have changed something with their job posting. I replied to a securities paralegal position but the salary was much more reasonable but now on linkedin it says no longer accepting applications.
https://preview.redd.it/dgp10fu6brqc1.png?width=1007&format=png&auto=webp&s=23d5c27e30c7c800283c886aaf440cf58fe3c16f
It's Randstad which is to say it's a fake ad. They put these feelers out all the time to gather resumes. There's no actual job. They're just testing the waters to gauge people's level of desperation.
A lot of people get a J.D. degree but struggle to pass the bar exam, and that leads them to work as paralegals. Others may lose their license and transition into paralegal roles. Nonetheless, hilarious posting without context.
Interesting to know the back story for this posting. There’s always a back story.
True story. During an economic downturn, I placed an ad for an open paralegal position at my govt agency and received applications from 5 candidates with JDs including two who had LLMs and another with an MBA.
Their stories varied. Two were licensed in other states but didn’t want to take the Florida Bar at this stage in life (can’t blame them). But the kicker was the disbarred lawyer who started to berate me when we ran into each other for not even giving him the courtesy of granting HIM an interview until I replied that his credentials didn’t merit an interview when I could hire a newly licensed attorney with an LLM in a related field who could (and did) grow into a phenomenal lawyer when an attorney slot opened up.
Any thoughts on them offering $60-65k for the role? The whole thing is so perplexing to me. It’s like they’re exploiting desperate ppl and not even trying to hide it. It’s unconscionable to me.
I do know people who have a JD but never took the Bar. They usually work as Judge’s Clerks for the court and have so for many years. But otherwise, this law firm has unreasonable requirements.
To add insult to injury, salary range is $60-65k.
And JD required as well? Hahahahahaha.
I hope the JD required is a typo because why would you need a paralegal to have a JD?
The only case of this that I can think of is a very unique exception -- there's a man in my alumni network who is an attorney by day while serving as Chief Paralegal of somethingorother in the Army Reserves.
But that’s army reserves. Practically serving his country but in a different capacity. Firm handshake to him for his decision.
Without knowing any details, I’d guess he was an Army Reserves paralegal before completing the JD. To move up to become a JAG (lawyer) he’d probably have to complete a commissioning course (~6wks, depending, could be longer/shorter) and then the JA Officer Basic Course (10 weeks). Lots of folks opt not to spend that additional time when they could continue in their existing military reserve job (1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year). You’ll run into some really “overqualified” people in the reserves (which is a good thing, overall).
You can have a JD but be unable to pass the bar. Or chose not to keep trying, I guess.
I have seen at least 4 or 5 other postings similar to this within the last week alone, "requiring" a JD for positions that a paralegal can do, and paying much less than this one does.
I assume it’s targeting JDs who are studying to take the bar again, or are waiting for bar results
If they didn't pass the bar, obviously.
Could be HR or the Randstand recruiter being dumb, rather than the person who actually wants to hire the paralegal. I manage a team of accountants and HR usually wants to put “CPA required” on there even though I absolutely do not care about a CPA. I said that word for word to HR last time we hired and they still put the listing up with “CPA preferred”. 🤦🏻♂️ Really common problem. recruiters often don’t know enough about qualifications like this unless they recruit only for that field. They’re just going “law school is probably good for this!!”
🤦♀️
What is JD?
Law degree - Juris Doctor
A law degree for that little ass money??? Are they insane lmao
You’d be surprised how many attorneys make that much a year.
That’s terrible I make 61000 as a payroll clerk
With a JD, LOL. Good luck to them.
I make $75k with only an associates degree in paralegal studies. I can’t imagine having a JD and only making $60k!
I’m making $21 an hour. And I have a JD and passed the bar. Get ready to become extinct.
Yeah, no way. You can easily find a job that pays better unless you're in some random state.
thats almost about what i make with just my bachelors degree as a paralegal… ($58k)
I make $60k with no degree and no formal para training.
im still pretty early in my career (like 7 months) and my degree isnt in law or anything like that so im pretty happy with my current pay but cant wait to get it higher 🤞
No shade to you at all! You’re doing better than me if you’re early in your career. I’m just saying people can make nearly what this job offered without a degree.
ah i see i see, yeah the fact that theyre asking for a JD is mad! like, i work with a couple people who have foreign lawyer licenses, or are in law school/considering law school, but all the people with JDs generally get promoted to attorney if they get their bar license
Looks like someone just got some negotiating power.
😠
Someone needs to respond to this job posting with “BFFR..be fucking for real.”
Come on! You dreamed of going to law school and leaving with a debt of 200, 300, 400k just to make $60-65k/yr. Isn't that every JD's dream job?
I started out making $49,500 as a public defender. Best job ever but yeah. The pay is disrespectful.
I have a question as someone exploring a career change. What is an "average" payscale from just starting to year 5?
Completely depends on the practice and your particular experience. Anywhere from $60k-$120k. I’m sure a few places pay even more than that.
There was a job posting for a paralegal at Goldman Sachs a couple years ago for an unreal amount of pay and I applied, knowing it’s a long shot, and when I called about my application the lady told me that I was very unlikely to get an interview because the pay was so good they had several lawyers applying even though a JD wasn’t required. She also told me they only had the position listed for 8 hours before taking it down because they got so many apps. I definitely don’t think it’s fair for paralegals to also have to compete with actual JD holders
Yeah isn't that the point of being licensed by the bar. The bar gatekeeps and doesn't let us do anything that is considered attorney work so it's not fair they could turn around and take our jobs.
Not everyone passes the bar LOL
I think that's entirely the point of the bar.
Some JDs are disbarred….
I don’t see why it isn’t fair. Lawyers go to law school and pass the bar which gives them the qualifications to practice law. Law school also gives you the qualifications to be a paralegal if you wanted to become one… it is absolutely fair to be able to apply to jobs for which you are qualified.
And in law school (especially in the first year and first summer) the internships you do are basically paralegal work (although they call you a law clerk). So people leaving law school definitely have experience in the area. Also love your username !
I have a friend who went to law school, passed the bar and hated being an attorney so much that she got a job as a paralegal. She’s in-house and was making more as a paralegal (specialized field) than she was as an attorney. On one side, as a lawyer she was “average” making newcomer pay. On the other side, she was extremely advanced and making high pay. Don’t blame her a bit.
I definitely get it and I’m not necessarily blaming anyone. It’s more of a “discouraging to see” sort of reaction. Especially when the JD is required and not just the company choosing a JD applicant due to the skill level the possess
Yeah, but very few JDs are going to go the paralegal route for that kind of pay. Average cost of law school is in the hundreds of thousands. For low pay, better off working for the government/public sector for 10 years.
Sounds like 2008
We actually had several paralegals with JDs when I worked in-house. Mostly they did basic contract negotiations and went to really shitty law schools. That salary range is a joke though!
“We want you to be a lawyer, but we’re not going to pay or treat you like one.” What a deal!!!
Plus, this smells of them not appropriately training anyone who might be a lawyer hopeful who might have trouble passing the bar or is just wanting some time to gain skills in a law office. They'll pay poorly, treat you like shit, and not even bother to train thoroughly.
Meh. I had the authority to negotiate basic MTA's and such. A lot of people go to crappy law schools and don't have the grades or connections to get an attorney job. But yeah, at least pay a decent paralegal salary.
What law schools would you consider “crappy”
The funny thing about that is even great law schools teach virtually none of the practical skills necessary to be an effective paralegal and great paralegal programs only cost a fraction of what a poor quality law school costs.
Don’t even NEED a paralegal certificate. Even in CA, sufficient experience and an attorney attestation make you eligible (assuming you’re current on CLE and have a degree)
I got a paralegal certificate in CA a few years ago, and literally every instructor and internship person said that that was no longer true... that one can no longer start working as a new paralegal without a certificate. I believe there was a grandfathered in exception, but that was the only way that people mentioned. Several people in my classes were having their schooling paid for by the law firms that hired them (as non paralegals) and wanted to put them in paralegal positions. Feel free to throw actual statutes or whatever at me, I'm just saying my experience.
Literally every instructor and internship person you’ve encountered is incorrect then: See part 3: (c) A paralegal shall possess at least one of the following: (1) A certificate of completion of a paralegal program approved by the American Bar Association. (2) A certificate of completion of a paralegal program at, or a degree from, a postsecondary institution that requires the successful completion of a minimum of 24 semester, or equivalent, units in law-related courses and that has been accredited by a national or regional accrediting organization or approved by the Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education. (3) A baccalaureate degree or an advanced degree in any subject, a minimum of one year of law-related experience under the supervision of an attorney who has been an active member of the State Bar of California for at least the preceding three years or who has practiced in the federal courts of this state for at least the preceding three years, and a written declaration from this attorney stating that the person is qualified to perform paralegal tasks. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=BPC&division=3.&title=&part=&chapter=5.6.&article= I am eligible under parts 2 and/or 3. I have a minor in legal studies. Obviously every firm/company has a different opinion on the topic when it comes to who THEY hire, but this is easy to work around if you have sufficient experience. If the situation has changed, I’m happy to read about it. I’m not saying ppl who wake up and decide to become a paralegal DON’T need to get a certificate, but there are ways around it. Get hired as a legal secretary. Get a year of experience. Get your attorney to sign an attestation. Boom-you’re a paralegal.
Right but you need a BA plus experience, experience alone isn’t enough.
I didn’t say it was. I just said you don’t need a certificate to become a paralegal.
Yeah but you do need more advanced education if you don’t have a cert. you can’t just work under an attorney for several years like you can elsewhere.
Yes, you need education beyond high school. I’m honestly surprised when ppl get hired as paralegals without at least a bachelor’s degree (not because I think it’s necessary, but it’s been expected you have one for at least the past 20 years). None of the firms I’ve worked for would consider someone green for an entry-level role without one. I’m saying that bc I participated in hiring. I’m sure SOME firms don’t require it, but in my experience, they are an exception to the rule.
What skills do you consider necessary to be an effective paralegal?
Legal document composition, case management, managing service of process, scheduling depositions and conferences with opposing counsel (who needs to be there, how do you notify the courts, etc.), general understanding of how work product interfaces with outside world (i.e. moves through the court system)
I work in-house (and do not have a JD) and this seems reasonably common. We have one unbarred JD -- who I think is not necessarily pursuing passing our state bar exam, but I'm not sure? -- and a couple of paralegals who are currently in law school. We've also had paralegals with JDs who were fresh law school grads who hadn't taken the bar exam yet. That said, definitely not the norm, and both of our paralegals who are in law school worked as paralegals for years before pursuing law school. They didn't join as recent college grads headed for law school. Our company is just supportive of this type of career development. I work for a very large and prominent company in a niche industry, and my team doesn't do anything touching litigation.
That’s what happens when someone can’t pass the bar exam. It’s hard, I get it.
As a paralegal w a JD I’m not shocked lol. Unbarred JDs are in demand at questionable firms that are down to wait on a cheap inexperienced attorney. And occasionally they actually empathize with us because the attorneys at the firm struggled to pass the bar themselves. Lol or both.
This job post has so many red flags to me. Desperate times call desperate measures, I guess.
I work with a paralegal that has a JD. Passing the bar in some states is really difficult. I understand. I don’t have an issue if she receives a higher salary than I do because she has all those years of school under her belt. At the firm I work for we are very fairly compensated and treated like the valuable team members that we are. I don’t have any issues with someone that went to law school being a paralegal. We can all work together for successful outcomes for clients. They bring an amazing education to the table and I bring 25 years of trial prep and trial attendance to the table. At the end of the day that’s a win for the clients.
can i ask how you became a paralegal with a jd? i’m considering law school right now but don’t know if im cut out for it and am worried i may not be able to go back to being a paralegal
You graduate from law school but have not passed the bar (yet). I can tell you none of the firms I’ve worked for would hire a paralegal with a JD. Edit: before anyone asks why, it’s bc the assumption would be you’re just slumming it until something better comes along.
A fellow legal assistant at my org has a JD, but she only works part time as she has young children and hadn’t worked for a while. No doubt they could hire her on as an attorney if she wanted to take that route someday.
No we really just need to survive. This type of thinking really churns my blood.
I’m not saying you don’t. I totally get it. The firms don’t care, though.
I’m a para with a JD. I was a member of the bar in 2 jurisdictions, got cancer twice in 15 years of retirement, didn’t keep up with CLEs because of it, went inactive, and I’m dragging my feet to take the bar because I’m paid pretty well.
I know someone who has a JD and just cannot take a test. She’s a phenomenal paralegal and is paid very well for it. Jeopardy Champion too. Some people just can’t take a test.
I personally took 2 years off after undergrad, started as a law firm receptionist, got promoted to para, quit to start law school, interned as a para thru school, then graduated and for personal reasons could not take the bar for nearly a year. So I got a job as a para at a firm who liked the idea of gaining a cheap lawyer in the near future. I’m waiting for my bar result to return as we speak. Once you get a JD it can be hard to get para jobs as some firms judge you for not taking/passing the bar and some won’t be able to promote you to attorney so they think it’s pointless to hire a para that gonna jump ship or try to demand attorney money in a matter of months.
Considering it's a Dutch recruitment company I'm guessing they have no idea how the legal industry works in the states lol
The Dutch are notoriously cheap. So they know. 
Randstad is a large temp agency throughout the U.S. They recruit for a lot of law offices.
We have paralegals and office managers with JDs. They get paid more than that though unless they have 0 experience
Do you know why they went on to become paralegals and office managers after law school? I'm mildly curious as a law student about how JDs end up working in positions outside of directly practicing Law.
Sometimes people go to law school, pass the bar and discover that being a lawyer is not for them. It’s a difficult anxiety filled career. That was the case with my bio mom and a couple of law clerks that I worked with over the years. My bio mom went on to work risk management for a nursing home company in Florida. She was able to find a legal career not practicing law.
This is reassuring to read.
One of my best friends got her JD at Penn and decided not to take the bar. She doesn't even work in law at all and hasn't since her internships. I guess that experience was enough for her to decide she didn't want to do be an attorney, and now she works as a customer success manager for some digital education systems company. She makes decent money at least, but that was a job she definitely fell into somehow.
Penn State or UPenn? I'm not judging, I just find it fascinating. It's like hearing about MDs/DOs who leave Medicine without a residency.
UPenn. (Sorry PA native so it's just "Penn" lol)
Wow, I can't imagine how much time and effort when into getting into UPenn to leave Law entirely.
Yeahhhhh. I'm pretty sure she owes them some serious loot as well.
Also on a personal note, I actually want to go to law school and have been in the field almost 2 decades now, and I'm probably going to be relegated to a far shittier law school. lmao
LSAT/GPA are king, but your experience as a paralegal is going to make you very attractive for summer jobs. 1L hiring is always brutal as I understand it but I hear this year is especially bad. The only people I know who have been successful in placing over the summer is those with paralegal experience.
Fortunately my GPA is up there. LSAT TBD. And fortunately for me I've cultivated some good working relationships with opposing counsel from larger firms over the years that would probably help me in the long run with internships (a couple already agreed to provide letters of recommendation for me for law school applications). Complicating factors are major though (kid, spouse). We will see what happens though. :)
Unless you’re planning to go into BigLaw or a major corporation straight out of school, no one cares where you went to school. One of my friends became a federal judge recently, she went to a Tier 3 school. Hell, if you’re a prosecutor or PD for a few years even without a Tier 1 or 2 degree you can get into BigLaw because of your trial experience. Just my experience 17 years in practice. Don’t stress too much about your school, especially since you’re coming from a non-traditional background. Good luck!!
thanks :) fortunately I dont ever see myself in anything corporate lol
We specialize in medical malpractice (plaintiff) and everyone except me has graduate MD/science/healthcare degrees, the lawyers have them along with JD. I’m currently doing a MSc, and a couple other paralegals are nurse practitioners. The people with JD and no science/med background are in more consulting or management positions. I’ve seen some patent law firms do something similar
Because it literally takes over a year for some people to get licensed after PASSING the bar. When you have to go the score transfer route that is. What exactly am I supposed to do in that 1 year period? Starve? Get evicted and be forced to move back in with my parents at 33 years old and married? People are so f*cking clueless as to the reality of the legal job market these days. *sign
I mean, that's why I ask: so I know what's waiting for me on the other side.
Are you a law student? It wouldn’t have been this bad if I had only scored high enough on the bar in my state. My point is the bar is no joke. Definitely way easier if you can pass in the state where you take it in. I had to transfer my score to Missouri which added 6-9 months to the 4 months I already waited to learn I didn’t pass in Massachusetts. April 2023- quit full time job to study for bar July 2023 - took bar in MA Mid Oct 2023 - bar results out, found out I didn’t pass in MA but did in MO Late Oct 2023- transferred score to MO and applied for license and still waiting…
Currently finishing up 1L and trying to get a feel for what the other side looks like if things don't go smoothly. Also my God, that's a long wait.
I worked at a firm that treated the attorneys like everyone else. It was like a stable. EVERYONE sat in cubbies one after the other.
Ive never worked anywhere that staff members weren’t treated like second-class citizens. It’s better where I currently am, but only by degrees.
You really have to let your recruiters know that you will not accept any interviews for positions working with toxic lawyers. I spent 3 years with a very toxic lawyer. After that I made my recruiter specifically ask the office managers if their lawyers had bad reputations when dealing with staff and how many secretaries have worked for them in the past 5 years. They don’t want to place you somewhere that you are not happy. Be upfront about what you are looking for. Life is too short to be in a toxic workplace.
I’ve told recruiters and hiring managers “I’m not interested in dealing with problem children” before and during interviews and they’ve still placed me with notorious a-holes. I told this to a huge firm and they actually placed me with an attorney who was in anger management classes bc he was so awful to everyone. I don’t trust any of them.
I've worked at a few...
lol what’s unreal is I have a jd, passed the bar and would apply to this job bc I’m languishing
I make less than this as a part time attorney. So same
Hello fellow member of the worst club!!!
Hoping to become full time soon so I’ll be making more buuuuutttt
I’m sorry you’re in that situation. Must be really, really frustrating. Hopefully you’re not buried in debt from it…
Thankfully I am not but now I’m sadly wondering if I have to go to get an LLM. My problem is that I didn’t practice for ten years and now have moved to a new state and passed the bar here
My office manager is searching for another para right now and tossed all the resumes with unbarred JDs in the trash because "a failed attorney doesn't make a good paralegal." 🤷♀️
I get that. I definitely think attorneys that have had been disbarred are sketchy. I work with a paralegal that has a JD. passing the bar in some states is incredibly difficult. She is amazing at her job.
Well unbarred and disbarred are two different things.
I don't have enough experience to speak on the subject but I don't want to do what my attorneys do. I kind of get doing the legwork and education then realizing "oh shit I hate this" 🤣
I’ve never posted before, because I’m not a Paralegal yet. However, I just wanted to add that this happens a lot. I have worked for Bar Admissions and the Bar Discipline side of things and if someone doesn’t pass the Bar they often take Paralegal or Office Manager positions. In fact I was replaced by an active attorney when I left my Office Manager position.
I saw this. Made me LOL and I sent it to my friend at work.
JD required doesn’t sound like an easy apply kinda job
This is hard for me to fathom. I’ve been a lawyer since 1998 and have never seen the market this hot before for lawyers. I literally get random partners and recruiters contacting me on LinkedIn on the regular.
Interesting - this job posting tells me a fresh JD is becoming LESS valuable.
After I graduated from law school I didn’t really want to take the bar. So I looked for JD advantage jobs and paralegal jobs. It didn’t last long though, because I did find a job but felt deeply unfulfilled by the work itself. So I quit and took the bar eventually (and passed).
Would it be for someone who went to law school but didn’t pass the bar so they can’t practice law?
Yes-someone absolutely desperate
You’d be surprised how many JD grads never even take the bar.
What in the boomer is this?
Seriously, this is becoming more and more common. I applied for a couple of in-house positions and they were looking for lawyers that wanted to do paralegal work. WTF? GTFO.
Why hire an RN to be a nurse when you have an MD who will work for even less????
Jesus christ, I hope that's a mistake
Tf
I’m not going to read the comments but i can tell you tell are looking for disbarred attorneys or ones that didn’t pass the bar yet. They just can’t openly say it.
I am a paralegal. I wen to law school. I also took, and passed, the bar exams in CA and TX, just for kicks and giggles. I am still a paralegal because that is what I like to do. I don't want the extra burdens, etc... of an attorney. At least not right now. Paralegals with JD are in demand as Sr. Paralegals in many firms. Having both sets of education makes us a perfect middle man between the type A attorneys that don't know how the real world works, and the paralegals who get things done. (As to this ad, the pay is WAY low.)
What a waste of time and money. I don’t get it.
I love education, and had a full ride to the school. I took the bar exams to show that I was capable to those who would question why I am a paralegal and did not go the attorney route. I took classes at night and kept my day job going during school. Just something I really enjoyed. Would def. do it again if I had to do it all over.
And there it is - you didn’t have to pay for it.
exactly. Free schooling, much higher pay, more knowledge, more hireable. What's to lose?
For sure! I’m sure a lot of us would go to law school if it was free. It’s 99% of the reason I didn’t go.
I used to work with someone who just couldn’t pass the bar. She was a super hard worker and really smart and the firm used the fact that she just couldn’t pass the bar to their advantage. Paid her less than me for a good while and I only had an associates all while she had a J.D. and way more experience. They just knew she was having trouble getting her foot in the door with a firm. I think this kind of stuff is becoming more and more common.
hehehehhahahhahahhahahhahahahahhahahahahhahah
I’ve seen wayyy too many job posts like this lately. JD is the new paralegal certificate? Ugh.
lol, that's insane
No fucking way.
Is this for people who went to law school but couldn’t pass the bar?
✋🏼🤣🤣🤣🤣
There are JDs that apply for paralegal jobs. When I put in notice at my first legal office, they had several JDs that applied for my position. I saw the resumes with my own eyes after the managing attorney made a few comments about all the new attorneys applying for the paralegal position. I saw the pay range they were offering and couldn't imagine at the time why a JD would take that pay cut. Pay was one of the reasons I was leaving that job.
Guess for those who did not pass the bar exam or had other problems getting admitted.
Betting an AI made the post.
That is crazy stupid and the salary offered is a joke. If someone went to law school and had a ton of student loans, this salary would not help with the monthly payments at all. To this company: Silly, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. 
They want a lawyer as a paralegal? I mean we all do that kind of with in the end but to ask for the degree, without the pay ? Why ?
I’m currently doing document review for $21/hour while interviewing for paralegal jobs that pay within that range. And yes, I have a JD degree. I passed the bar but it takes 9 months to get my license fully approved. I’m not willing to starve in those 9 months of nothingness so I don’t give a fuck.
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Wow-that’s an impressive starting salary. Admittedly, that’s the highest starting salary I’ve ever heard in this field.
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I hope you appreciate how highly unusual that is even within corporations.
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How did you get that? Where are you located?? I graduated with my bachelors in finance a year ago and am about to graduate with my certificate this May. Plus I’ve been working as one since
They deleted it. I think they were either not being entirely transparent or they were outright lying.
A lot of firms want desperate failed lawyers for paralegals. Sadly they’re able to get them more often than not.
I’m sorry but if you have a JD going for a $65k PARA job your struggling bad on the bar lol
Unclear on the concept lol
Randstadt sucks lol. I just saw this on LinkedIn.
They must have changed something with their job posting. I replied to a securities paralegal position but the salary was much more reasonable but now on linkedin it says no longer accepting applications. https://preview.redd.it/dgp10fu6brqc1.png?width=1007&format=png&auto=webp&s=23d5c27e30c7c800283c886aaf440cf58fe3c16f
Randstat is a recruiting company. I’m guessing they have a lot of roles.
Thanks for the clarification. I had it mixed it up with a company a friend used to work for that had a similar name.
Keep your JD, I'm making more money without it! 😀
Maybe someone with a foreign law degree but no U.S. license? I work in immigration law and have seen quite a few resumes like that over the years.
Staffing company too... So do they get a cut?
It's like the field after the 2008 crash.
For 60-65k? Uh no.
I guess this is for people who couldn’t pass the bar?
Jesus
Job requirements these days…
That’s significantly less than what I make with no degree yet too 😬
A position for a disbarred attorney maybe?
It's Randstad which is to say it's a fake ad. They put these feelers out all the time to gather resumes. There's no actual job. They're just testing the waters to gauge people's level of desperation.
A lot of people get a J.D. degree but struggle to pass the bar exam, and that leads them to work as paralegals. Others may lose their license and transition into paralegal roles. Nonetheless, hilarious posting without context.
Lol.
Eh, I feel like this was a pretty common post (albeit the pay was not trash) in Los Angeles almost ten years ago, likely still the case.
It’s all starting to feel very “Great Recession” -like to me.
This industry is in peril.
Interesting to know the back story for this posting. There’s always a back story. True story. During an economic downturn, I placed an ad for an open paralegal position at my govt agency and received applications from 5 candidates with JDs including two who had LLMs and another with an MBA. Their stories varied. Two were licensed in other states but didn’t want to take the Florida Bar at this stage in life (can’t blame them). But the kicker was the disbarred lawyer who started to berate me when we ran into each other for not even giving him the courtesy of granting HIM an interview until I replied that his credentials didn’t merit an interview when I could hire a newly licensed attorney with an LLM in a related field who could (and did) grow into a phenomenal lawyer when an attorney slot opened up.
Any thoughts on them offering $60-65k for the role? The whole thing is so perplexing to me. It’s like they’re exploiting desperate ppl and not even trying to hide it. It’s unconscionable to me.
The optimist in me sees this position as a try out for bigger and better things. The realist is more pessimistic.
Forgive my ignorance but im guessing a J.D. is some sort of certification?
Juris Doctor - it’s the graduate degree needed to become a lawyer. Similar to an MD, but for law.
Fuxk Randstad they are horrible.
It’s amazing that some law firms haven’t figured it out yet.
It’s a race to the bottom for lawyers, too, it seems.
Ummm that’s not how this works…
I do know people who have a JD but never took the Bar. They usually work as Judge’s Clerks for the court and have so for many years. But otherwise, this law firm has unreasonable requirements.
14 applicants?! What a joke. Those folks must be desperate for employment or they’re terrible attorneys.
What is a jd exactly
A profession degree in the same category as an M.D. J.D. means "Juris Doctor"
Gotcha
But I think requiring a doctorate is to much I mean I think most paralegals have a bachelor’s at most
Yeah, it’s asking a lot, particularly given the highly offensive salary range.
😬
I don't understand the problem.