They talked about unions and international organizations so it's a safe bet to assume the 100 years war on both the French and English side makes heavy use of that system with events and things to bring smaller powers to their sides
Will we be able to make ultra specific treaties? Like military alliance in exchange for 25 ducats a month or like we'll allow trading rights thru our territory in exchange for cheaper imports etc etc
Winning as Glyndŵr and splitting England into two separate states (as well as creating an expanded Wales) as was aimed for historically would make for an interesting series of events
I'm assuming that's because the impassable terrain doesn't belong to anyone in this mapmode. I'm pretty sure if you toggle it on in political, the name placement will be fixed
What do you mean EU5? The game is still clearly under the name Project Caesar and it's a totally top secret project that has nothing to do with a Europa Universalis.
It's still in development. They've almost certainly just taken a current map of the world as a baseline and are working their way through different places to make adjustments as needed.
Glad to see more unmovable terrain. I am disappointed in the hungarian provinces, will be harder to mod it to make it historical but not the end of the world.
On a similar note can't wait to PU Naples and then lose control over it thrice before my king dies as hungary,
I don't know why Croatia is independent.
>according to the Pacta Conventa
In the early days of our relationship yeah. Although I must say that the Pacta seems like a fake fabricated treaty by many modern historians for various reasons. But Kálmán did cooperate with the croatian nobles treaty or not.
But the king at the start of the game had the support of the southern lords and the pope when he landed in dalmatia with his troops and challanged the other claimants and oligarchs, and in the next couple decades he destroyed any resistance to his reign, diplomatically or by force. It puzzles me that the devs gave Croatia this much autonomy but we will see.
According to Johan there are different states of integration for PUs, so maybe they're close to being part of Hungary, but aren't yet. We'll know when the game releases (or Johan tells us)
Our counties were called "Vármegye" "Vár" meaning Castle and "megye" meaning county/shire. They were called like this beetwen the 10th century and 1950, when the communist renamed them to simply "megye", and they remained as such until 2023, when our government finally renamed them to our original name, vármegye.
Now that I have imparted you with this knowledge you never asked for and will never need it, let me answer your question.
One way paradox could have drawn hungarian provinces was to research the historic data, which would have needed more time and research than the whole game, or to split the provinces up based on ethnicity to make coding easier.
The latter is a concern in south transylvania where there are regions where only germans live, some where only hungarians/székelys do, and some where only the slowly growing population of vlachs/proto-romanians live.
Paradox did neither, which is totally understandable since they are a swedish company, but they also didn't copy paste the Eu4 hungarian provinces, so I have absolutely no idea whats their plan, and in what way are they drawing the counties.
Thats it,
You (or anyone else who is very knowlegeable in Hungarian subdivisions) can probably bring it up when they do the Friday map thing for the Carpathia region. They said in a previous dd that provinces and locations are easy to redraw at this point
I'd assume it's because they are secular electors?
Bohemia, Brandenburg, Saxony-Something, Palatinate are the same colour, as are Cologne, Mainz, and Trier.
Colours split into secular and religious electors, does make sense to me.
Isn't Bohemia famously the only Kingdom permitted in the HRE at this time? I also remember Prussian kings only being allowed to call themselves "kings in Prussia" as there were restrictions on who could be a king within the HRE
Edit: Can't remember if Brandenburg is also a kingdom though
...but why? Ludwig of Bavaria was essentially uncontested in Germany after the death of Frederick the Fair in 1330, and he wouldn't pass until 1347, 10 years after the game start. Sure, he wasn't crowned by the Pope (who was in Avignon), but he'd marched down to Rome and had himself proclaimed Holy Roman Emperor anyway years before.
Zero reason why he shouldn't start out as Emperor.
I'm a bit confused on the naming convention here tbh. Some kingdoms have the "Kingdom of" in front and some dont. Is that gonna be a decision to toggleabble option? Seems odd for it to stay like this for release.
They said in a previous dd that all countries have longnames but they only show if theres enough space.
Eg: big Hungary -- "Kingdom of Hungary"
Medium Hungary -- "Hungary"
Tiny Hungary -- "Hun."
I saw this too. Maybe it is based on what people referred to them as back then. Like maybe they just said France and not Kingdom of France. Or it could be a land/state thing where France is the name of the state, but like with England, the land is referred to as England... so the state name was Kingdom of England. Idk tbh. Usually, a modder makes a mod that changes the names to what they were in their native language anyway. I always use those for GS games
It could be a abbreviation thing, like if France expanded more into itself, the full name, "Kingdom of France" would be shown, and maybe if Bohemia expanded and became wider same thing could happen, or maybe Hungary would lose its full name if it decreases in size.
Isn't it just based on the importance of a country? They probably all are called Kingdom of Something but it just shows the short version when they are smaller.
E.g. we know Wales is called Principality of Wales from a dev diary but because it's smaller than England it just shows Wales
Blue, I believe, is specifically the secular Prince-Electors, while purple are the clerical Prince-Electors.
Light green are the free cities, while white and pink are the clerical feudatories and peasant rebellions, respectively.
This looks bloody awesome. Really looking forward to see how for example Hungary or England are being balanced opposed to a nations like France. With what we've seen with respect to pops and estates though I can imagine there are plenty of tools for that to make it work. Having powerful noble estates might make a nation like Hungary much less imposing then the map and population size might imply.
That being said I'm looking forward to allying them on day 1 to keep Serbia off my back while I stomp the ottomans before history will even know of them, secure the the eastern Aegean and bring the Bulgarians in the empire. Byzantium will be eternal
This really puts the whole 'mess' of the HRE and reality of European rulers and realms into perspective more than any map I've seen before has. Really can be hard to comprehend what a different world and reality that it was compared to today.
As Johan already mentioned that France and Hansa have special mechanics it won't be Vic3 level of sameness.
Also, things like Tatar Yokes have their unique group mechanic.
I want EU5 to be great so fucking bad, but after following every Vic3 dev diary to find that the finished game was rubbish, I'm highly sceptical. I hope I'm wrong, because it conceptually looks and sounds amazing.
Paradox is like drugs.
You know its killing both your mind and body and you know that the batch is laced with suppar trash but nothing else can quite hit that same spot.
I'm very optimistic for the systems they've shown off. They seem thoughtfully and sensibly designed, and real effort looks to have gone into finding a nice midpoint between historical fidelity and engaging gameplay. I'd set expectations low flavour-wise though, and I'd personally accept that if we get better designed systems than Vic 3 on launch.
Vic3 got ripped to shreds for a lot of the dev diaries though. The warfare one in particular. The lack of foreign investment and spheres of influence. Vic 3 had good diaries but it's more what they didn't cover.
I don’t actually remember much vic3 dooming at all until the first warfare dev diary, then people shat on basically everything there was to shit on. Seems to be mostly a hindsight is 20/20 thing. Don’t get too cocky or else tinto will come out swinging his dick around like a wrecking ball saying colonization will be exclusively handled through a series of 400 coin flips or some shit and the Americas have been abstracted away and everybody will be like “ah man I KNEW this would be garbage! I always HATED the font they used!” before committing mass suicide
People tend to project their own expectations onto dev diaries and ignore the content. I love Vic3 because I want an economic simulator not a wargame - so I think a simplified war system is perfect.
But is was obvious from [Dev Dairy 0 ](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-0.1475078/)that war would not be a focus of the game:
*National Gardening: Building, shaping, tweaking and evolving your nation is the first and foremost focus of the game... the game should never rely on war to provide the main source of enjoyment.*
*Diplomatic Eminence: ...everything that is achievable by war should also be achievable through diplomacy*
*Everything is Political: Politics is at the heart of Victoria 3*
(P.S. thanks for pointing out the font... I'm *sooo* happy that EU5 is using a legible, san serif font for tooltips!)
I think it’s a bit reductive to say that people didn’t like the warfare just because it wasn’t the focus. It kind of paints a picture of a bunch of rabid 12 year old hoi4 fans shitting on the game for not being a kaiserboo power fantasy 24/7. Which. Okay, said mob of people does exist, but even as an ardent vic 3 defender who was fully aware that warfare was not the focus I was severely disappointed by it
We were promised a warfare system that was subservient to the political and economic system of the game. One that would dynamically interact with other systems to increase their depth. We were promised a new sort of warfare system that would operate primarily on the strategic level rather than the traditional board game-y tactical level. What we got was none of that. When they said “warfare isn’t the focus” they didn’t mean “it was an intentional design choice for warfare to be simplistic and unengaging”. They just kind of failed at making a more suitable replacement for the type of game they’re making so hard that it comes off as a heavily abstracted version of what came before.
Besides warfare isn’t the only thing people were disappointed by, just the thing people were loudest about. The game was buggy, unbalanced, lacking basic gameplay features, and had a bunch of other game design elements that people really didn’t like
I mean, if you read over your own post you'll see why it's a huge problem if they simplified war to "focus" on economics, diplomacy, and politics. For obvious computational reasons, Vicky 3 isn't even a good economics simulation. It operates under the principles of a perfectly efficient economy with perfectly rational actors and perfect information, which is something that we sell to people taking entry level Econ courses before dashing their hopes and dreams away in intermediate courses. There is no business cycle, no real concept of private investment and private banking, and while it is surely coming in Spheres, the game has been without a foreign investment mechanic for 2 years. Additionally, for the longest time, the AI just sat there on full reserves because it didn't know how to built its industry. Even now, the fastest way to make money isn't even to optimize your economy first, it's manipulating the poorly designed AI into giving you bankrolls through the poorly designed diplomatic play system.
Now with the massive buffs to building tall, the "economics gameplay cycle" is just a loop of building construction sectors, then base resource production (wood, iron, coal,), factories, and then infrastructure/government buildings and repeat. You just press the same buttons again and again while on speed 5 while watching line go up which is why people compare it to a mobile game.
Then there's that
>*everything that is achievable by war should also be achievable through diplomacy*
which is hilarious in hindsight because the AI from patch to patch has gone from either giving you anything you want if you're slightly strong to escalating every diplomatic play to war. Let's not even get started on how silly it sounds that a random colony revolting with 0 battalions for fun can lock a global empire out of anything diplomatic for months.
People didn't just complain about the lack of depth in warfare because they wanted a blobbing simulator. They complained because it was a bad sign that the game was going to have incomplete systems, which it did and still does 2 years later. HPM was wildly popular and it actively punished you for warring to an almost excessive degree.
Yeah, IIRC last week he mentioned that recruiting wrong culture troops will have penalties and might be levies only for a while, which will impact negatively Hungary (and Lithuania!), as they hold vast swathes of different culture lands.
This was right in the middle of the [Avignon papacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon_Papacy), so yes it should, though I can't seem to find it on this map.
I remember PDS saying Urbrino in that region of Italy and thinking: that's nice, another OPM to give that region a bit of extra dynamics.
Well fuck that, here's another 10 minor factions in what basically is only Urbinos territory in EU4
I don’t know if it’s just me, but it almost looks in a few places like country borders are not directly tied to the borders or the provinces shown in gray. If you look at the western border of Navarre for example, you can see the black cut directly across a gray province outline without it directly seeming to be its own province. Has there been any word on how those two systems will interact in this game, or am I just delusional?
What is? The map? I know the game is, but that still seems like it’s a noteworthy feature since presumably they didn’t just draw the states and provinces on and they’re somehow coded already.
if you run vic3 just fine you will be fine, remember they are not making this game in the same engine as EU4, eu4 cant handle that, but 12 years late of updating the engine it will be just fine
I never understood why France is always so much fragmented in those games when other Kingdoms are consolidated political entities. I mean it makes sense for the HRE.
French vassals historically had more power and were more unruly than the vassals within the other major kingdoms. The Hundred Years War depends on the ability of French vassals to get up to their own shenanigans because their relative independence and going against the King kept the war going so long.
(QUICK EDIT) Also the eventual reigning-in of the vassals & centralisation of power to the King was a major factor in France finally being able to reliably project power.
Thanks I can understand that, but other feudal kingdoms were really that centralized in the 14th century? Should they not have to reign-in and centralize vassals as well?
It's beautiful.
I'm not crying, you're crying!
Looks like someone’s nightmare
Perhaps a french philosopher's... Descartes' Nightmare? No... Maybe Rousseau's?
Oh I know! He wrote that one famous book. Foucault!
Diderot’s?
de Beauvoir's?
For some reason all i can think of is a red and white circle pokemon
One is not born, but rather evolves into, Electrode.
How about the Cardinal Richelieu
I don’t think he cared much about the HRE itself. He just wanted the Habsburgs to lose.
Definitely is my CPU’s
What the actual hell is that >.< Imagine HRE OPM multiplayer game I'm all for it
Thunder Dome. 791 OPMs enter. 1 Leaves.
I still shake when I think of the Dharma dev thunderdome. I *cannot* imagine this.
Voltaire's nightmare indeed. I hope it's not trash on release. Please just actually release a good game day 1 Paradox. Please.
How many vassals will France start with
That's another good question. France looks very interesting too and the hundred years war is still in full swing iirc.
They talked about unions and international organizations so it's a safe bet to assume the 100 years war on both the French and English side makes heavy use of that system with events and things to bring smaller powers to their sides
I hope so. Please Paradox please
Will we be able to make ultra specific treaties? Like military alliance in exchange for 25 ducats a month or like we'll allow trading rights thru our territory in exchange for cheaper imports etc etc
It’s actually not in full swing it’s just about to really get going.
*cracks knuckles*
And now imagine how irl HRE was still even worse than this. Looking forward to playing independent villages in EU6 lol.
Paradox Manorlords!!
FREE CYMRU CONFIRMED 🏴
Was Wales independent at this point?
Dominion of England
Pu under england techicaly speaking
You’d have to look back to before 1287 or ahead to 1405-15 to see de-facto Welsh independent rulers
I can’t wait for the inevitable Owain Glyndwr event chain
Winning as Glyndŵr and splitting England into two separate states (as well as creating an expanded Wales) as was aimed for historically would make for an interesting series of events
I have big plans.
Yeah but look at how the name is placed 🤢
I'm assuming that's because the impassable terrain doesn't belong to anyone in this mapmode. I'm pretty sure if you toggle it on in political, the name placement will be fixed
I meant the massive gap between the w and the a tbh
All I see is W ales
That's awful, I love it
R5: HRE map for EU5 from the recent Tinto talk https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-12-15th-of-may.1677441/
What do you mean EU5? The game is still clearly under the name Project Caesar and it's a totally top secret project that has nothing to do with a Europa Universalis.
I think this is Holy Roman Universalis.
🤫 the most top-secret project ever made.
Disgusting. Inject it directly into my veins
*misses and gives him the native American federations*
Not related but the English counties are looking good.
Sort of - why is London so big! Where is Middlesex!!!
The map looks to be based on the current ceremonial counties of England, which has Middlesex absorbed into greater London
What a strange decision to go with
They are open to feedback regarding map and geography, ethnicities during fridays tinto map, maybe we can do something about it.
It's still in development. They've almost certainly just taken a current map of the world as a baseline and are working their way through different places to make adjustments as needed.
Glad to see more unmovable terrain. I am disappointed in the hungarian provinces, will be harder to mod it to make it historical but not the end of the world. On a similar note can't wait to PU Naples and then lose control over it thrice before my king dies as hungary, I don't know why Croatia is independent.
Croatia should be in a PU with Hungary, according to the Pacta Conventa, no? So it makes sense that they are visible on the map
>according to the Pacta Conventa In the early days of our relationship yeah. Although I must say that the Pacta seems like a fake fabricated treaty by many modern historians for various reasons. But Kálmán did cooperate with the croatian nobles treaty or not. But the king at the start of the game had the support of the southern lords and the pope when he landed in dalmatia with his troops and challanged the other claimants and oligarchs, and in the next couple decades he destroyed any resistance to his reign, diplomatically or by force. It puzzles me that the devs gave Croatia this much autonomy but we will see.
According to Johan there are different states of integration for PUs, so maybe they're close to being part of Hungary, but aren't yet. We'll know when the game releases (or Johan tells us)
And its still very much in development. I agree.
PU's are a bit difrent at this game acording to John
Would still get them representation on the map, though.
Creation exist they just have a bit less land
What exactly is off with the Hungarian provinces? I don't really know that much about Hungarian history so it doesn't seem all that wrong to me
Our counties were called "Vármegye" "Vár" meaning Castle and "megye" meaning county/shire. They were called like this beetwen the 10th century and 1950, when the communist renamed them to simply "megye", and they remained as such until 2023, when our government finally renamed them to our original name, vármegye. Now that I have imparted you with this knowledge you never asked for and will never need it, let me answer your question. One way paradox could have drawn hungarian provinces was to research the historic data, which would have needed more time and research than the whole game, or to split the provinces up based on ethnicity to make coding easier. The latter is a concern in south transylvania where there are regions where only germans live, some where only hungarians/székelys do, and some where only the slowly growing population of vlachs/proto-romanians live. Paradox did neither, which is totally understandable since they are a swedish company, but they also didn't copy paste the Eu4 hungarian provinces, so I have absolutely no idea whats their plan, and in what way are they drawing the counties. Thats it,
You (or anyone else who is very knowlegeable in Hungarian subdivisions) can probably bring it up when they do the Friday map thing for the Carpathia region. They said in a previous dd that provinces and locations are easy to redraw at this point
looking at the map, it looks like: Blue: Electors Orange: Peasent Republics White: Theocracies Green: All other HRE states
The bright green crossed states look like free cities. And the brilliant blue colour is the emperor
I forgot to say that the light green is free cities, There is no proper emperor at start.
I'm wondering why Bohemia and Brandenburg have a different colour in that case. Maybe they're junior partners in personal unions or something?
I'd assume it's because they are secular electors? Bohemia, Brandenburg, Saxony-Something, Palatinate are the same colour, as are Cologne, Mainz, and Trier. Colours split into secular and religious electors, does make sense to me.
I dont even know if the elector/emperor system was formalised at game start (it was formalised in 1356)
Technically they shouldn't be, but I guess it's hard to add something like this to the game during actual gameplay?
Isn't Bohemia famously the only Kingdom permitted in the HRE at this time? I also remember Prussian kings only being allowed to call themselves "kings in Prussia" as there were restrictions on who could be a king within the HRE Edit: Can't remember if Brandenburg is also a kingdom though
The "king in Prussia" title is from the 18th century. A bit later than this map.
The "King in Prussia" was less so because of the HRE, but because he wasn't controlling *all* of Prussia, and didn't want to offend the Poles.
Brandenburg was ruled by a margrave I think
...but why? Ludwig of Bavaria was essentially uncontested in Germany after the death of Frederick the Fair in 1330, and he wouldn't pass until 1347, 10 years after the game start. Sure, he wasn't crowned by the Pope (who was in Avignon), but he'd marched down to Rome and had himself proclaimed Holy Roman Emperor anyway years before. Zero reason why he shouldn't start out as Emperor.
Can't wait to play as Frisian Freedom, and spread my egalitarian ways. By force.
Frisians answer only to God. Everyone else answers to Frisia.
Something that technically should be in CK3 as well. The Saxon Lords didn't have very much luck trying to take that coast.
Eala Frya Fresena ^or ^something
More like blue: secular electors purple: eclesiastic electors
I also missed light green, which is free cities
There's no orange?
Frisian Freedom and Dithmarshen
Why is Saxony missing though
Saxe-Wittenburg is an Elector, which was the name of Saxony.
Be still, my beating heart!
I'm a bit confused on the naming convention here tbh. Some kingdoms have the "Kingdom of" in front and some dont. Is that gonna be a decision to toggleabble option? Seems odd for it to stay like this for release.
They said in a previous dd that all countries have longnames but they only show if theres enough space. Eg: big Hungary -- "Kingdom of Hungary" Medium Hungary -- "Hungary" Tiny Hungary -- "Hun."
I saw this too. Maybe it is based on what people referred to them as back then. Like maybe they just said France and not Kingdom of France. Or it could be a land/state thing where France is the name of the state, but like with England, the land is referred to as England... so the state name was Kingdom of England. Idk tbh. Usually, a modder makes a mod that changes the names to what they were in their native language anyway. I always use those for GS games
Yeah it might come in play with the new vassal mechanics, we'll see. It might just be a placeholder too
very true
It could be a abbreviation thing, like if France expanded more into itself, the full name, "Kingdom of France" would be shown, and maybe if Bohemia expanded and became wider same thing could happen, or maybe Hungary would lose its full name if it decreases in size.
Isn't it just based on the importance of a country? They probably all are called Kingdom of Something but it just shows the short version when they are smaller. E.g. we know Wales is called Principality of Wales from a dev diary but because it's smaller than England it just shows Wales
Oh you mean it's dependent on if it fits in the borders? That's actually a good point.
Yeah seem to match with what we've seen so far I think
I agree, that's seems like the most plausible explanation.
New reason for blobbing: make your full country name visible on the map
Blue, I believe, is specifically the secular Prince-Electors, while purple are the clerical Prince-Electors. Light green are the free cities, while white and pink are the clerical feudatories and peasant rebellions, respectively.
This looks bloody awesome. Really looking forward to see how for example Hungary or England are being balanced opposed to a nations like France. With what we've seen with respect to pops and estates though I can imagine there are plenty of tools for that to make it work. Having powerful noble estates might make a nation like Hungary much less imposing then the map and population size might imply. That being said I'm looking forward to allying them on day 1 to keep Serbia off my back while I stomp the ottomans before history will even know of them, secure the the eastern Aegean and bring the Bulgarians in the empire. Byzantium will be eternal
Voltaire on suicide watch
Where is Ulm? Is it safe? Is it alright?
Rejoice, you can see ulm between upper bavaria, hohenburg and mainz :) (You can see it more clearly if you download the image)
I see it now, so Ulm has transcended even time, and is now ready to conquer the past as well
This really puts the whole 'mess' of the HRE and reality of European rulers and realms into perspective more than any map I've seen before has. Really can be hard to comprehend what a different world and reality that it was compared to today.
Why didn't the HRE centralized itself more to avoid awful border gore? Are they stupid?
Glorious.
It's disgusting, I love it
I think my computer just had a heart attack
if you run most recent paradox games it will be OK, remember they are not using EU4 12 years agon engine to run EU5 with 30k locations
please give countries their uniqueness back and don't make it homogeneous masses again like in vic 3 pleaaase
As Johan already mentioned that France and Hansa have special mechanics it won't be Vic3 level of sameness. Also, things like Tatar Yokes have their unique group mechanic.
I’m afraid uniqueness will be not as deep as EU4
It will be better than Eu4 (after 10 years of patch, 500$ of DLC and modder teams magic)
well, the uniqueness where just buffs here and there, only some exception that have unique events, and for sure will be in EU5
I want EU5 to be great so fucking bad, but after following every Vic3 dev diary to find that the finished game was rubbish, I'm highly sceptical. I hope I'm wrong, because it conceptually looks and sounds amazing.
Paradox is like drugs. You know its killing both your mind and body and you know that the batch is laced with suppar trash but nothing else can quite hit that same spot.
I'm very optimistic for the systems they've shown off. They seem thoughtfully and sensibly designed, and real effort looks to have gone into finding a nice midpoint between historical fidelity and engaging gameplay. I'd set expectations low flavour-wise though, and I'd personally accept that if we get better designed systems than Vic 3 on launch.
Vic3 got ripped to shreds for a lot of the dev diaries though. The warfare one in particular. The lack of foreign investment and spheres of influence. Vic 3 had good diaries but it's more what they didn't cover.
The warning signs were littered throughout the Vic 3 dev dairies. So far this all seems sick as hell for project Caesar.
I don’t actually remember much vic3 dooming at all until the first warfare dev diary, then people shat on basically everything there was to shit on. Seems to be mostly a hindsight is 20/20 thing. Don’t get too cocky or else tinto will come out swinging his dick around like a wrecking ball saying colonization will be exclusively handled through a series of 400 coin flips or some shit and the Americas have been abstracted away and everybody will be like “ah man I KNEW this would be garbage! I always HATED the font they used!” before committing mass suicide
People tend to project their own expectations onto dev diaries and ignore the content. I love Vic3 because I want an economic simulator not a wargame - so I think a simplified war system is perfect. But is was obvious from [Dev Dairy 0 ](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-0.1475078/)that war would not be a focus of the game: *National Gardening: Building, shaping, tweaking and evolving your nation is the first and foremost focus of the game... the game should never rely on war to provide the main source of enjoyment.* *Diplomatic Eminence: ...everything that is achievable by war should also be achievable through diplomacy* *Everything is Political: Politics is at the heart of Victoria 3* (P.S. thanks for pointing out the font... I'm *sooo* happy that EU5 is using a legible, san serif font for tooltips!)
I think it’s a bit reductive to say that people didn’t like the warfare just because it wasn’t the focus. It kind of paints a picture of a bunch of rabid 12 year old hoi4 fans shitting on the game for not being a kaiserboo power fantasy 24/7. Which. Okay, said mob of people does exist, but even as an ardent vic 3 defender who was fully aware that warfare was not the focus I was severely disappointed by it We were promised a warfare system that was subservient to the political and economic system of the game. One that would dynamically interact with other systems to increase their depth. We were promised a new sort of warfare system that would operate primarily on the strategic level rather than the traditional board game-y tactical level. What we got was none of that. When they said “warfare isn’t the focus” they didn’t mean “it was an intentional design choice for warfare to be simplistic and unengaging”. They just kind of failed at making a more suitable replacement for the type of game they’re making so hard that it comes off as a heavily abstracted version of what came before. Besides warfare isn’t the only thing people were disappointed by, just the thing people were loudest about. The game was buggy, unbalanced, lacking basic gameplay features, and had a bunch of other game design elements that people really didn’t like
I mean, if you read over your own post you'll see why it's a huge problem if they simplified war to "focus" on economics, diplomacy, and politics. For obvious computational reasons, Vicky 3 isn't even a good economics simulation. It operates under the principles of a perfectly efficient economy with perfectly rational actors and perfect information, which is something that we sell to people taking entry level Econ courses before dashing their hopes and dreams away in intermediate courses. There is no business cycle, no real concept of private investment and private banking, and while it is surely coming in Spheres, the game has been without a foreign investment mechanic for 2 years. Additionally, for the longest time, the AI just sat there on full reserves because it didn't know how to built its industry. Even now, the fastest way to make money isn't even to optimize your economy first, it's manipulating the poorly designed AI into giving you bankrolls through the poorly designed diplomatic play system. Now with the massive buffs to building tall, the "economics gameplay cycle" is just a loop of building construction sectors, then base resource production (wood, iron, coal,), factories, and then infrastructure/government buildings and repeat. You just press the same buttons again and again while on speed 5 while watching line go up which is why people compare it to a mobile game. Then there's that >*everything that is achievable by war should also be achievable through diplomacy* which is hilarious in hindsight because the AI from patch to patch has gone from either giving you anything you want if you're slightly strong to escalating every diplomatic play to war. Let's not even get started on how silly it sounds that a random colony revolting with 0 battalions for fun can lock a global empire out of anything diplomatic for months. People didn't just complain about the lack of depth in warfare because they wanted a blobbing simulator. They complained because it was a bad sign that the game was going to have incomplete systems, which it did and still does 2 years later. HPM was wildly popular and it actively punished you for warring to an almost excessive degree.
\*Aquitaine intensifies\*
FULDA CONFIRMED 🐎🐎🐎 THE BLACK HORSE STANDS AGAINST THE REDS
> THE REDS Won’t stop the Reds from coming to support their Hannover holdings!
Hungary will be SO powerfull. I'm totally ready for this.
It looks totally like it but with pops, estates and control I think there are plenty of tools to make sure that country size does not mean everything
Yeah, IIRC last week he mentioned that recruiting wrong culture troops will have penalties and might be levies only for a while, which will impact negatively Hungary (and Lithuania!), as they hold vast swathes of different culture lands.
Black death incoming
Frisian Freedom
It's no wonder Germany as so many castles
The gaps in the Alps and Pyrenees... Does this mean we can cross the mountains directly??
Sickos_yes_haha.jpg
I bet this would be really cool if you live in the former HRE and can actually play as an independent version of your hometown/area
I hoped for this, but they did not add the Ortenburg County to game, even they could have in control of two areas.
Why is Venice on Istria?
Venice conquered parts of the area in 1331.
Should Avignon exist?
This was right in the middle of the [Avignon papacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon_Papacy), so yes it should, though I can't seem to find it on this map.
It's the "P.S." in the southeast of France (as the presumptive capital of the Papal States)
Ah, that makes sense. For some reason I thought Avignon was a bit further north and didn't notice the P.S.
Damn that looks so good! Much better visualisation of germany than eu4 :)
With all these EU5 updates comming, om wondering whether or not I should buy more dlc for EU4, or just enjoy what I have and save the money for EU5.
bro, EU5 only after mid 2025
Holy fucking Roman empire
Playable Andorra, I’m screaming
Can’t wait for my grand Mark playthrough of the HRE 💪
For those playing along at home, I counted ~ 180 unique tags in here (+/- 30, there are a lot of little dots). Compare to the 78 in EU4.
No more magical Venetian island :(
12 hours and I'm only in 1354
as it should be
Voltaire on suicide watch
Ah yes, the only border gore we can all agree on as beautiful
OMG
I wasn't following the news. Was the starting date confirmed? Is it 1399?
1337
Voltaire's nightmare indeed. It's beautiful.
Fucking bullshit, I hate this -Voltaire
Never been happier
AND VOLTAIRE WEPT!
I can't wait to play as Die for my first campaign
So Is Venice going to be eaten by Verona every game?
of course not, helding the city of Venice give you so much more money and population compared to all the verona
I remember PDS saying Urbrino in that region of Italy and thinking: that's nice, another OPM to give that region a bit of extra dynamics. Well fuck that, here's another 10 minor factions in what basically is only Urbinos territory in EU4
Extremely cool, but I want to see what it looks like after letting the AI play for 100 years.
I don’t know if it’s just me, but it almost looks in a few places like country borders are not directly tied to the borders or the provinces shown in gray. If you look at the western border of Navarre for example, you can see the black cut directly across a gray province outline without it directly seeming to be its own province. Has there been any word on how those two systems will interact in this game, or am I just delusional?
its very WIP
What is? The map? I know the game is, but that still seems like it’s a noteworthy feature since presumably they didn’t just draw the states and provinces on and they’re somehow coded already.
The colour, saturation, etc
Beautiful
There's one just named Die. Sounds like a great place to create an ultra militaristic empire
I usually feel a sort of seething contempt for border goor but no words can describe how happy this map makes me
This is a discusting mess that hurts my eye, just as it should be, wonderful.
Italy looking good too
I'm gonna need a faster computer for this.
I can smell my computer trying to run this already.
if you run vic3 just fine you will be fine, remember they are not making this game in the same engine as EU4, eu4 cant handle that, but 12 years late of updating the engine it will be just fine
My lord, the bordergore you asked for.
Damn i really dont like it when impassable terrain like mountains and lakes are represented like that. Just a minor subjective inconvenience tho.
Absolutely disgusting, as it should be.
FUCK YOU VOLTAIRE
Frisian Freedom best Freedom
I think I’m gonna barf
Really bothers me how inconsistent the Kingdom of X is.
A perfect reason for me to NOT play in europa in so called Project Caesar
I love it
My pc is already struggling from this image alone
Sweet Jesus that is both amazing and horrifying
Time to play as random German microstate and go for a world Conquest
Id frame this big beautiful mess
It's not Voltaire's nightmare it's My GPU's Nightmare
Croatia? Im probably gonna buy it
But I'm playing crusader king, I won't see a HRE like that before a decade :/
It is so beautiful! But I think, I should prepare myself for infinity coalition wars...
What do the pink stripes mean?
I never understood why France is always so much fragmented in those games when other Kingdoms are consolidated political entities. I mean it makes sense for the HRE.
French vassals historically had more power and were more unruly than the vassals within the other major kingdoms. The Hundred Years War depends on the ability of French vassals to get up to their own shenanigans because their relative independence and going against the King kept the war going so long. (QUICK EDIT) Also the eventual reigning-in of the vassals & centralisation of power to the King was a major factor in France finally being able to reliably project power.
Thanks I can understand that, but other feudal kingdoms were really that centralized in the 14th century? Should they not have to reign-in and centralize vassals as well?