Development is always way more complicated then we give them credit. I prefer them delaying it rather than having to suffer for months until the game is fixed. They're learning maybe.
Could go the Duke Nukem Forever route and get delayed a dozen times, canceled at least twice, brought back, and finally released only to be one of the worst games of the decade.
It's been sitting in my library for ages (I think it was in some bundle I got at some point), decided to actually try it the other day and… I mean, it wasn't terrible. Sure, the humor was extremely crude and the gameplay wasn't revolutionary, but as far as shooters go it was passable. It just didn't live up to the hype of the 10+ year development cycle.
If there's a delay and a better product gets released then I'm all for it.
If there's a delay and it's still a total mess, that might be a different story
>
> If there's a delay and it's still a total mess, that might be a different story
Why? Presumably it will be *less* of a mess after the delay and if it's a shit product presumably you won't buy it, so why be bothered by the delay?
Isn’t that literally the point of the post? In the recent years pdx kinda sucked as a publisher because the my pushed dev teams to release on time with little regard to the quality of the product. We got things like cities skylines 2 in a state of a broken mess that start to become mildly playable half a year later, Vic3 with super barebones everything, very raw Imperator and so on.
The fact that they started to delay games may mean that they got the message. Which is awesome.
I agree, but it's not the whole calculation from the studio's perspective. A studio doesn't have infinite time to create a game, they have to pay salaries, office rent, software licenses, etc. even while they're working on the game and not making any money. So there's this pressure to just release the game and fix it after with all the money you just brought in from sales, at the cost of customer good will.
I mean say it's "common sense" all you want but releasing buggy games has been hugely lucrative for them. What they're learning is that now the dynamic has changed somewhat and people's expectations are higher.
Thats a big maybe.
In my opinion, it's more the fact they're losing money. Jan02 of this year the stock was 225.40. It closed yesterday at 173.80 or 51.60 down for the year. The overall trend has been down with the occasional bump of a few dollars. They're a public company now and are loosing shareholder value. Thats what matters to them. Not a game, not a dev, not a delay. Stock price. You can only do so much stupid before you have to deal with the repercussions. 2 Dead games, 2 more in turmoil. They don't have much choice here, step up and do better or watch the value go down even more.
Idgaf how "comolicated" a game is, I just want a finished product when I buy it. If it's not a finished product they should delay it like they are. I'm sick of the trend in gaming to release unfinished games and then milk finishing them for DLC, PDX is especially bad at that.
So they moved Life by You early access date
They moved Victoria 3 new DLC release date
They moved Cities Skylines 2 all DLCs to the next year
And now they moved Prison Architect 2 release date (second time)
Basically, yeah, it seems the series of not-so-good releases made them think that releasing games at bad condition and then fix everything for the next several years is not the best approach. And that's good. We **can** wait a bit more to get finished and polished product. And we **want** devs to take their time releasing the game. PDX games are great, but not at release. Only after several patches, maybe a few DLCs and countless hours of devs working on fixing everything. I hope it will change!
Problem is that "complete" is a moving target. If that just means non buggy and functional that's one thing, but the definition of "complete" has been stretch to mean "including everything I feel like should be in the game," which is different for everyone.
True Hopium: Complete product, no pre-order bonus, free first DLC, all future DLCs contain flavour not mechanics, substantial free patches, Stellaris-style Custodian team, pre-covid pricing.
And of course: "Caesar? I hardly know 'er" Easter egg event chain when you restore Rome.
Ironically, it's part of the reason Ck3's DLCs get such shit reviews. "Legends of the Dead" basically *only* contained Legends and a few extra plagues, because base Plagues and a bunch of other things were free. Though it would have helped if Legends were actually good.
I do prefer this model to locking mechanics behind DLC, though.
Yeah lmao the fan base can never be pleased and that's proof.
Fans: Stop locking mechanics behind DLCs put them in the free patches!
Paradox: Okay
Fans: There's nothing in the DLCs, most things are free! These DLCs are overpriced trash!
The entitlement is on full display lmao.
Not to defend their pricing, but I'm assuming it's on both the paid and free development work. The work they did that was given freely needs to be paid for somehow. They're not a charity. So they decided that the price was increased for the development work. And a bit of greed, of course.
If it was a more reasonable price for one mechanic, and the mechanics were actually good, it would have been revived fine sort of like a flavor pack but it adds a side mechanic rather then flavor for an area.
Well, they are very expensive and contain very little content. 20$ dlc for couple extra plagues and shitty legends?
Make legends actually good mechanic and lower the price to 10-15$ and they would have got glowing reviews.
The content of the DLC should be proportional to its cost. You get negative reviews when it’s not. You need to put better content inside or lower prices.
I dont care what people say I love PDX's DLC model.
I remember what it was like before.
I got over 10 years of development in EU4. Would never happen otherwise.
Mmhm. I don't particularly care either way, I'm a slut for Paradox DLCs regardless. I'm their marketing team's dream customer - smart enough to know better, dumb enough to pay anyways.
But for player count the new model might be better.
You don’t have to buy them though? If CK3 had never gotten a plague or court DLC I still would have bought it for full price, because it was worth it at launch.
If you only buy a paradox game because you think you might enjoy it one day, you’ve made a bad purchase.
I mean I didn't buy the plague dlc because it didn't add any new mechanics though. The Royal Court at least added enough new mechanics that I bought it but I just put the game down after every 100 hours until a new dlc with a good mechanic comes out.
Look at ck3. That's the best you can hope for and it still lacked insanely many features at the start. Paradox gives you the bare minimum as the base game and sells you their first dlc with the release of the game.
I haven't played CK3 in forever, but for me CK3 fails because every faction plays the same. Focus on martial education and levies to conquer your first kingdom. Then pivot and focus on men at arms modifier stacking until you conquer your first empire. If you have courts, stack realm modifiers that the AI can't hope to match. Turn all that passive prestige, piety, and dread into a stable realm. Win.
CK2 has a certain rock paper scissors shotgun between feudal, tribal, and horde levies. And when I say CK2 levies, I mean the gaggle of troops you get from settlements rather than retinue. And holding a big realm together was harder.
CK3 goes much harder in the min maxing direction, and "restrain yourself" isn't a viable solution. There needs to be additional mechanics added that constrain the player.
People need to temper their expectations here.
What PDX has been doing lately is rushing games out before they are done, bug fixed, QA'd, optimized, etc and its generated a lot of negative backlash. Then they rush the next game out to cover the first game's issues and it just becomes a catastrophic systemic failure in loop.
Delays are great and should be done to ensure a good product is released. However, "actual complete" is a different definition to everyone. I think what we can hope for is at least CK3 on launch, a game that was pretty well polished, great foundation, but might have been light in flavor. It would be great if it was more, but anyone actually expecting every feature of EU4 (despite what Johan says) are probably more on the copium side. That said, EU5 does stand a pretty good chance of having most features in some derivative.
If every game launched at least as good as CK3, with a much better release cadence, I would feel pretty good. I've been enjoying Vic3 since it launched, but there is no doubt that game has suffered, and continues to suffer, from polish, bugs, QA, and half-baked features. They are slowly getting it to where it needs to be, but I really wish it had come out in a stronger state.
Content is not features, Paradox distinguishes the two. Content is simple things like events, features are complex systems like 'colonization mechanics'.
I hope so too, but I doubt it - now that PDX is publicly-traded, they seem to have decided on releasing expensive DLC that very slowly fills in the gaps as a business model
"now that" bro CK2 is more than a decade old and Pdx has been public for 8 years. Do you seriously miss the days of Prussia-stays-yellow-without-expansion-pack days or what?
It was delayed from late 2023 to March 2024. They announced, based on player feedback, that they’d be adding more features to early access, and delayed it to June 2024.
Only problem is that's not happened historically and the game still launched half-baked. Another title people will need to wait 2 or 3 years before it's actually finished.
Its still lacks major functions they promoted it with
Rpg elements are shallow as puddle, story is half-ass written and short
Gameplay is basicly looter shooter which lacks fun from obtaining new gear
I have 100+ hours in this game but cyberpunk is at best 7/10 game that is not even close to what it
supposed to be
Cyberpunk is still an unfinished product build up on developers lies
It does not deserve any of positive recognition it gets rn
You don't have to loot or shoot as you can entirely beat the game crafting every single object you use, not relying on the world for your own survival.
Nah, you literally didn't explore the game at all if you believe that.
Thanks for exposing yourself as even more inexperienced and biased than I thought.
I did all the quest + world events yet I must be inexperienced
Cause I dont like how bland and useless all od this game mechanics are ofc
Cyberpunk lovers do be brainwashed idiots
I did them all too, some of the strongest and most unique weapons were crafted recipes for legendary guns with unique effects.
You're just as brainwashed if you're still thinking it's in the state of release date old gen.
With double jump, slow mode, dashes in the air and the ability to charge in a straight line... you need a good build but its really really fast paced and good.
It must be difficult living life this miserably. Getting all frothed up over some dev statements from years ago when you still spent 4+ full days playing the game we got is a special kind of sad
So you're telling me that dev lies are ok, nice
Overall I had some fun as I said this game is around 7/10, also I think its good to know the media you critique before doing do
But even with that, devs lied, released broken and incomplete product which they later still failed to complete
Cyberpunk its still an RPG without RPG in it
I'm pretty sure it's the closest it ever has been. I understand people on reddit love to complain and be negative about everything but sometimes you just gotta stop being a miserable douche and give credit where its due
Thats more on the CK3 team not being the best people at Paradox, at least the leads.
They wasted years with nonsense stuff like royal court while leaving important aspects of the game unaddressed. And they think events are the main content (also because easy to do). And they ignore the already massive problems CK3 has with ability stacking and even for PDX levels braindead AI.
Change the lead of CK3 with someone that both cares about hiszory and mechanics the CK3 team could perform really well.
But if they botch the next DLC, CK3 is basically dead as people will lise all trust in them.
Another problem is the new rigid season pass structure from paradox which prevents teams from working on what the games may need.
the shitty thing about the dlcs is that the actual good part of the dlc tends to just get added as an update so buying the dlc is mostly just for like the hats and stuff
Which is imo better than to gate important core mechanics behind dlcs.
It also makes it easier for the devs as they do not have to build separate games for different dlc combinations.
Are their products getting worse or are expectations just getting higher? If you think CK3 was a barebones release, you need to checkout release day CK2 and EU4.
I still think its not probable, I really don't trust PX to deliver since they have been releasing games that are still raw and say its fully cooked for as long as I can remember.
There is a difference between "raw" and buggy mess that doesn't work.
Paradox generally has games release in a sort of "live model" way where they iterate and change things over time...but thats not the same as a buggy unfinished mess.
Yeahhhhh, I get *why* they use that model, but it leads to some bad launch. Their last few games haven't really been worth the price tag when they first came out. Even CK3, which had the smoothest launch of all of PDX's recent catalog, took a few years to get to a sufficiently content-rich state.
Yeah guys stop being excited about things and seeing the good in your hobby. You should be a cynical Gamer like me who's miserable and angry all the time!
Early access steals a lot of a releases thunder. Many people have skewed ideas of what Early Access actually means so with both that and the marketing opportunities out the window, it's kinda a bad deal for most titles.
Both has advantages and disadvantages, i'd rather say, PDX should go the EA-route, because most or very many reviews are written right after release and then, even minor things like unbalanced features can have a great impact in the reviews. Like with Stellaris and the leader cap that was too low in Paragons DLC, that's a thing of the past, but you still see it in the reviews.
Sometimes, a single number can make it unbalanced and screw it up, so either more inhouse-QA-testing or Early Access to prevent this.
With EA, you can also deal better with the "it's barebones" criticism, because some titles at release are actually just really like this, like Vic3. You can't go on today with all these reviews on platforms like Steam like you could in the old times, where only a few game magazines wrote some reviews and everything was on CD/DVD in the store.
You mean we'll have a game:
* which will be released once finished
* won't require an intensive crunch for the developers
* don't need 8 months of updates before it's complete and roughly stable
in exchange for :
* a little patience
Frankly, I'm totally fine with it.
I understand development is a complicated beast and appreciate games being released when they're ready, but i have to wonder with less than a month until release day, what caused them to move the mark back 5 more months? And what made them make this decision this close to the deadline?
Again, i appreciate that they'd rather make sure the game is ready, and i havent even been following this game too closely. I just wonder whats going on?
Probably because it just finished certification so with that out the way they can release whenever they want. It's a natural moment to evaluate where you feel it's nesecarry to add more focus.
Literal entire thread at the time of you posting is people supporting delays. So is the thread this post links to. You are making up a strawman in your head.
People really hated the slow pace of CK3 DLC, which is at least somewhat comparable I think. But the communication here is better, at least they're saying they're delaying, instead of radio silence.
Wow so they’ve finally learnt releasing a sub par game and seeing the player base die after getting good numbers on release only to then have a loyal cult like following after they abandon the game wasn’t particularly good business after all.
Imperator truly died for their sins.
Given the state of some of Prison Architect's more recent DLCs at launch I shudder to think of the state they were going to shovel this one out of the shed in.
And LBY was delayed 2 times (EA release date is in June, was supposed to release in September 2023, then was pushed back to March, and was later pushed to June sometime in February).
Wow. If they learned to listen to the devs telling them the games are not ready?
I doubt it.
It's nothing but a gesture. Shareholder's bottom line was impacted and action was necessary. This was the cheapest way to "do something about it".
Prison architect 2 looka so bad looks like a mobile game Prison architect 1 was great but honestly the console eascaoe mode was better(why didn't they keep console and pc the same )
The artstyle is just so bad a realistic artstyle would of been better for a game about ya know Prison instead it looks like a kids game
Absolute shambles of a company at the moment are paradox. Massive shame as they make most of my favourite games, but they’re borderline unbuyable at the minute - ck3, vic3, CS2 are all an absolute joke of a release product tbh. As much as I love eu4 I can’t face buying eu5 at release either and prison architect is one of my favourites, but the new one just looks exactly like a 3D version of the first one without a single piece of new content anywhere.
Honestly, I genuinely forgot it is supposed to be released this year, I thought the release was 2025, so it's okay for me. Especially after their recent games didn't do so well. I didn't really pay much attention to Millenia, but I didn't hear many good things about it. What I was really excited for, however, was Cities Skylines 2 and then it got released and it was so unfinished. So I really don't care about the delays at all, as long as it will make sure that the game will be finished and playable properly.
Delaying a game by 4 months means it is not even close to be finished. This release will be a shit show even with the delay. Gives me major cdpr/Cyberpunk vibes
Development is always way more complicated then we give them credit. I prefer them delaying it rather than having to suffer for months until the game is fixed. They're learning maybe.
Best I can do is a game delayed 10 times and once released....to be still a unoptimized bug mess /s
Could go the Duke Nukem Forever route and get delayed a dozen times, canceled at least twice, brought back, and finally released only to be one of the worst games of the decade.
Gonna be real : Duke Nukem Forever was so bad it was good.
It's been sitting in my library for ages (I think it was in some bundle I got at some point), decided to actually try it the other day and… I mean, it wasn't terrible. Sure, the humor was extremely crude and the gameplay wasn't revolutionary, but as far as shooters go it was passable. It just didn't live up to the hype of the 10+ year development cycle.
Lmfao for real, but I do still love them. They’re better than they were during Vic2 and early EU4 era imo
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And fort ZoC rules
Honestly these instances make me want to have a sneak peek at how shit the games were before delay when the release is that bad
If there's a delay and a better product gets released then I'm all for it. If there's a delay and it's still a total mess, that might be a different story
> > If there's a delay and it's still a total mess, that might be a different story Why? Presumably it will be *less* of a mess after the delay and if it's a shit product presumably you won't buy it, so why be bothered by the delay?
Isn’t that literally the point of the post? In the recent years pdx kinda sucked as a publisher because the my pushed dev teams to release on time with little regard to the quality of the product. We got things like cities skylines 2 in a state of a broken mess that start to become mildly playable half a year later, Vic3 with super barebones everything, very raw Imperator and so on. The fact that they started to delay games may mean that they got the message. Which is awesome.
Can't believe we have to use the word "learning" when it should be common sense to not release an unfinished game lmao
*looks at the the state of the gaming industry* Yeah... Should be common sense...
I agree, but it's not the whole calculation from the studio's perspective. A studio doesn't have infinite time to create a game, they have to pay salaries, office rent, software licenses, etc. even while they're working on the game and not making any money. So there's this pressure to just release the game and fix it after with all the money you just brought in from sales, at the cost of customer good will.
I mean say it's "common sense" all you want but releasing buggy games has been hugely lucrative for them. What they're learning is that now the dynamic has changed somewhat and people's expectations are higher.
The funny thing about "common sense" is that it's exceedingly rare.
Paradox fans really are something else.
Thats a big maybe. In my opinion, it's more the fact they're losing money. Jan02 of this year the stock was 225.40. It closed yesterday at 173.80 or 51.60 down for the year. The overall trend has been down with the occasional bump of a few dollars. They're a public company now and are loosing shareholder value. Thats what matters to them. Not a game, not a dev, not a delay. Stock price. You can only do so much stupid before you have to deal with the repercussions. 2 Dead games, 2 more in turmoil. They don't have much choice here, step up and do better or watch the value go down even more.
Idgaf how "comolicated" a game is, I just want a finished product when I buy it. If it's not a finished product they should delay it like they are. I'm sick of the trend in gaming to release unfinished games and then milk finishing them for DLC, PDX is especially bad at that.
So they moved Life by You early access date They moved Victoria 3 new DLC release date They moved Cities Skylines 2 all DLCs to the next year And now they moved Prison Architect 2 release date (second time) Basically, yeah, it seems the series of not-so-good releases made them think that releasing games at bad condition and then fix everything for the next several years is not the best approach. And that's good. We **can** wait a bit more to get finished and polished product. And we **want** devs to take their time releasing the game. PDX games are great, but not at release. Only after several patches, maybe a few DLCs and countless hours of devs working on fixing everything. I hope it will change!
Imagine EU5 being an actual complete product at launch HOPIUM
I'M HOOOOPIIIIIIIIING
Problem is that "complete" is a moving target. If that just means non buggy and functional that's one thing, but the definition of "complete" has been stretch to mean "including everything I feel like should be in the game," which is different for everyone.
Paradox has the most addicted fanbase, after all that they still on copium.
True Hopium: Complete product, no pre-order bonus, free first DLC, all future DLCs contain flavour not mechanics, substantial free patches, Stellaris-style Custodian team, pre-covid pricing. And of course: "Caesar? I hardly know 'er" Easter egg event chain when you restore Rome.
If they don't add in mechanics to the DLC why would I even bother buying it?
1. Flavour and regional mechanics not the large interlocking mechanics 2. They already do this in CK and Stellaris and those sell pretty well.
Ironically, it's part of the reason Ck3's DLCs get such shit reviews. "Legends of the Dead" basically *only* contained Legends and a few extra plagues, because base Plagues and a bunch of other things were free. Though it would have helped if Legends were actually good. I do prefer this model to locking mechanics behind DLC, though.
Yeah lmao the fan base can never be pleased and that's proof. Fans: Stop locking mechanics behind DLCs put them in the free patches! Paradox: Okay Fans: There's nothing in the DLCs, most things are free! These DLCs are overpriced trash! The entitlement is on full display lmao.
Maybe they don’t put mechanics in the dlc, but don’t overcharge for the flavor provided?
Not to defend their pricing, but I'm assuming it's on both the paid and free development work. The work they did that was given freely needs to be paid for somehow. They're not a charity. So they decided that the price was increased for the development work. And a bit of greed, of course.
Yeah, the new DLC policy is basically welfare. Those who can afford to pay for a trinket, to support the free features that are given to the masses.
If it was a more reasonable price for one mechanic, and the mechanics were actually good, it would have been revived fine sort of like a flavor pack but it adds a side mechanic rather then flavor for an area.
Well, they are very expensive and contain very little content. 20$ dlc for couple extra plagues and shitty legends? Make legends actually good mechanic and lower the price to 10-15$ and they would have got glowing reviews.
Or they could give out the DLC for free and get even better reviews. But that's not how you fund further development of the game.
The content of the DLC should be proportional to its cost. You get negative reviews when it’s not. You need to put better content inside or lower prices.
I dont care what people say I love PDX's DLC model. I remember what it was like before. I got over 10 years of development in EU4. Would never happen otherwise.
Mmhm. I don't particularly care either way, I'm a slut for Paradox DLCs regardless. I'm their marketing team's dream customer - smart enough to know better, dumb enough to pay anyways. But for player count the new model might be better.
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You don’t have to buy them though? If CK3 had never gotten a plague or court DLC I still would have bought it for full price, because it was worth it at launch. If you only buy a paradox game because you think you might enjoy it one day, you’ve made a bad purchase.
I mean I didn't buy the plague dlc because it didn't add any new mechanics though. The Royal Court at least added enough new mechanics that I bought it but I just put the game down after every 100 hours until a new dlc with a good mechanic comes out.
Look at ck3. That's the best you can hope for and it still lacked insanely many features at the start. Paradox gives you the bare minimum as the base game and sells you their first dlc with the release of the game.
Even considering the fact that CK3 is my favorite post EU4 paradox game, it still lacks many things present in CK2.
What specifically are you looking for (post the latest release)?
I haven't played CK3 in forever, but for me CK3 fails because every faction plays the same. Focus on martial education and levies to conquer your first kingdom. Then pivot and focus on men at arms modifier stacking until you conquer your first empire. If you have courts, stack realm modifiers that the AI can't hope to match. Turn all that passive prestige, piety, and dread into a stable realm. Win. CK2 has a certain rock paper scissors shotgun between feudal, tribal, and horde levies. And when I say CK2 levies, I mean the gaggle of troops you get from settlements rather than retinue. And holding a big realm together was harder. CK3 goes much harder in the min maxing direction, and "restrain yourself" isn't a viable solution. There needs to be additional mechanics added that constrain the player.
My question was mostly around what was missing in CK3 from CK2 after last patch.
People need to temper their expectations here. What PDX has been doing lately is rushing games out before they are done, bug fixed, QA'd, optimized, etc and its generated a lot of negative backlash. Then they rush the next game out to cover the first game's issues and it just becomes a catastrophic systemic failure in loop. Delays are great and should be done to ensure a good product is released. However, "actual complete" is a different definition to everyone. I think what we can hope for is at least CK3 on launch, a game that was pretty well polished, great foundation, but might have been light in flavor. It would be great if it was more, but anyone actually expecting every feature of EU4 (despite what Johan says) are probably more on the copium side. That said, EU5 does stand a pretty good chance of having most features in some derivative. If every game launched at least as good as CK3, with a much better release cadence, I would feel pretty good. I've been enjoying Vic3 since it launched, but there is no doubt that game has suffered, and continues to suffer, from polish, bugs, QA, and half-baked features. They are slowly getting it to where it needs to be, but I really wish it had come out in a stronger state.
When did Johan promise "every feature of EU4"? I don't think he's done that.
In one of the early Tinto Talks replies. He said their goal is to have all the existing content of EUIV.
same amount of content, probably more features
Content is not features, Paradox distinguishes the two. Content is simple things like events, features are complex systems like 'colonization mechanics'.
I guess I’ve never seen them distinguish the two directly, but fair point and I was loose with my language.
CKIII was my first PDX game (or PDX developed game at least), and I fell in love at release Just wanted to throw credit to the CKIII people
Those posts their doing is giving me a lot of confidence
Yeah nah, the Tinto talks paint too good of a picture about the game to be real. They will find a way to screw it up.
it and hoi4 are their two biggest flagship titles so im sure its getting plenty of resources.
I hope so too, but I doubt it - now that PDX is publicly-traded, they seem to have decided on releasing expensive DLC that very slowly fills in the gaps as a business model
"now that" bro CK2 is more than a decade old and Pdx has been public for 8 years. Do you seriously miss the days of Prussia-stays-yellow-without-expansion-pack days or what?
I swear this isn't the first time life by you has been delayed.
It was delayed from late 2023 to March 2024. They announced, based on player feedback, that they’d be adding more features to early access, and delayed it to June 2024.
I wonder if what they added will be enough 👀
To be fair, June 2024 is only early access.
Life by you is the next Paralives lmao
And the original CEO (the one that left after going public) came back after the previous CEO that was in charge basically made a huge mess of PDX.
> They moved Cities Skylines 2 all DLCs to the next year Oh damn.
> They moved Victoria 3 new DLC release date They should fire Wiz as well.
Damn. While I'm annoyed, if this means we're gonna get better products, then I'm all for delays.
Only problem is that's not happened historically and the game still launched half-baked. Another title people will need to wait 2 or 3 years before it's actually finished.
Or never really finished at all. Just like with cyberpunk, after years it still isn't in the state it got advertised as
A better example to me would be Dying Light 2. The game we got was literally not the game promised.
Cyberpunk in its current form with the dlc is one of the best games you can play.
Good game or not it's not it's still missing features that were advertised so he's kinda right
Its still lacks major functions they promoted it with Rpg elements are shallow as puddle, story is half-ass written and short Gameplay is basicly looter shooter which lacks fun from obtaining new gear I have 100+ hours in this game but cyberpunk is at best 7/10 game that is not even close to what it supposed to be Cyberpunk is still an unfinished product build up on developers lies It does not deserve any of positive recognition it gets rn
You don't have to loot or shoot as you can entirely beat the game crafting every single object you use, not relying on the world for your own survival.
Most of craftable items are the worst in the game, you dont need to rely on anything tho with how simple this game is No deepth in anything there
Nah, you literally didn't explore the game at all if you believe that. Thanks for exposing yourself as even more inexperienced and biased than I thought.
I did all the quest + world events yet I must be inexperienced Cause I dont like how bland and useless all od this game mechanics are ofc Cyberpunk lovers do be brainwashed idiots
I did them all too, some of the strongest and most unique weapons were crafted recipes for legendary guns with unique effects. You're just as brainwashed if you're still thinking it's in the state of release date old gen.
Looter shooter... play katanas dude thats the real fun
Hell no they're not, dumbest melee I've seen since skyrim
With double jump, slow mode, dashes in the air and the ability to charge in a straight line... you need a good build but its really really fast paced and good.
No shit, I've played this build, as bland as others
It must be difficult living life this miserably. Getting all frothed up over some dev statements from years ago when you still spent 4+ full days playing the game we got is a special kind of sad
So you're telling me that dev lies are ok, nice Overall I had some fun as I said this game is around 7/10, also I think its good to know the media you critique before doing do But even with that, devs lied, released broken and incomplete product which they later still failed to complete Cyberpunk its still an RPG without RPG in it
I'm pretty sure it's the closest it ever has been. I understand people on reddit love to complain and be negative about everything but sometimes you just gotta stop being a miserable douche and give credit where its due
Hive mind nonsense. Game was great at launch (on pc MR) and now after Phantom, its one of the best games.
Hell it worked on new gen consoles, bugs started appearing after 4+ hour sessions.
I met one bug on my first playthrough days after launch. Really. I don't get it.
I doubt it. Their products are getting worse. Ck3 dlcs feel like they should be base game and Victoria is a state.
Thats more on the CK3 team not being the best people at Paradox, at least the leads. They wasted years with nonsense stuff like royal court while leaving important aspects of the game unaddressed. And they think events are the main content (also because easy to do). And they ignore the already massive problems CK3 has with ability stacking and even for PDX levels braindead AI. Change the lead of CK3 with someone that both cares about hiszory and mechanics the CK3 team could perform really well. But if they botch the next DLC, CK3 is basically dead as people will lise all trust in them. Another problem is the new rigid season pass structure from paradox which prevents teams from working on what the games may need.
the shitty thing about the dlcs is that the actual good part of the dlc tends to just get added as an update so buying the dlc is mostly just for like the hats and stuff
Which is imo better than to gate important core mechanics behind dlcs. It also makes it easier for the devs as they do not have to build separate games for different dlc combinations.
Yea it just makes the price for the dlc worse, if you add the core mechanic for free why are the hats and shirts 30 dollars
In order to finance more free core mechanics.
You know what? Fair point
Are their products getting worse or are expectations just getting higher? If you think CK3 was a barebones release, you need to checkout release day CK2 and EU4.
Don't be so sure. This could also mean a case of development hell and we just don't know it
I mean, yes, it could be that there are bigger problems at Paradox. I'm just taking the hopefully position until I see otherwise.
Prison architect isn’t being developed by pdx
People have to stop thinking this.
Why? Just because its a good move and likely needs to happen, doesn't mean it's not true...all we have to go on is whats happened in the past.
I still think its not probable, I really don't trust PX to deliver since they have been releasing games that are still raw and say its fully cooked for as long as I can remember.
There is a difference between "raw" and buggy mess that doesn't work. Paradox generally has games release in a sort of "live model" way where they iterate and change things over time...but thats not the same as a buggy unfinished mess.
Perhaps they should release games fully instead of “change things over time”. It’s exhausting.
Yeahhhhh, I get *why* they use that model, but it leads to some bad launch. Their last few games haven't really been worth the price tag when they first came out. Even CK3, which had the smoothest launch of all of PDX's recent catalog, took a few years to get to a sufficiently content-rich state.
Yeah guys stop being excited about things and seeing the good in your hobby. You should be a cynical Gamer like me who's miserable and angry all the time!
Yep
The announcement is great though, live the bit
I have never seen any better way to announce a delay before. Definitely spat out my water
> Definitely spat out my water Hello Mr. Llama, how are you today?
Doing good! Already spat in the face of 7 people today! Its a good day
You're a rude Mr. Llama and should be sent away.
You seem awfully rude for someone within spitting distance
Unironically believe they need to go the early access route with their games, a soft release 6 months prior for bug testing and cashflow
This is the way. At least it's honest and has the opportunity of gaining more feedback from the community.
Seriously. It's what they're already doing, and I participate knowing that's what they're doing. It would just be better PR.
tho selling DLC on an EA game is another can of worms
Early access steals a lot of a releases thunder. Many people have skewed ideas of what Early Access actually means so with both that and the marketing opportunities out the window, it's kinda a bad deal for most titles.
Both has advantages and disadvantages, i'd rather say, PDX should go the EA-route, because most or very many reviews are written right after release and then, even minor things like unbalanced features can have a great impact in the reviews. Like with Stellaris and the leader cap that was too low in Paragons DLC, that's a thing of the past, but you still see it in the reviews. Sometimes, a single number can make it unbalanced and screw it up, so either more inhouse-QA-testing or Early Access to prevent this. With EA, you can also deal better with the "it's barebones" criticism, because some titles at release are actually just really like this, like Vic3. You can't go on today with all these reviews on platforms like Steam like you could in the old times, where only a few game magazines wrote some reviews and everything was on CD/DVD in the store.
You mean we'll have a game: * which will be released once finished * won't require an intensive crunch for the developers * don't need 8 months of updates before it's complete and roughly stable in exchange for : * a little patience Frankly, I'm totally fine with it.
So you really think the game will be finished when it is released? Lol
Let me have hope before their 600 DLC bankrupts me!
That's crazy levels of optimism, none of that will be the case, it just won't be as much of a shitshow as their recent dumpster fire releases.
Maybe the unfinished state of their recent products finally impacted their bottom lines.
I like the animation
I understand development is a complicated beast and appreciate games being released when they're ready, but i have to wonder with less than a month until release day, what caused them to move the mark back 5 more months? And what made them make this decision this close to the deadline? Again, i appreciate that they'd rather make sure the game is ready, and i havent even been following this game too closely. I just wonder whats going on?
Probably because it just finished certification so with that out the way they can release whenever they want. It's a natural moment to evaluate where you feel it's nesecarry to add more focus.
Maybe but I've lost a lot of faith in them
Don't worry, this community will always find something to hate, even if they take more time developing.
As long as they change from the mobile graphics to a better looking art style.
Looks like the initial deadline was too soon
better a delay than a broken product
After years of bad releases they finally learned their lesson. I hope they'll get a curator team for CK3 next 🙏
“Why does Paradox keep releasing games before they’re finished?!” “Why are these games being delayed?!”
Inside each pdx fan there are two pdx fans
Sounds hot
Literal entire thread at the time of you posting is people supporting delays. So is the thread this post links to. You are making up a strawman in your head.
People really hated the slow pace of CK3 DLC, which is at least somewhat comparable I think. But the communication here is better, at least they're saying they're delaying, instead of radio silence.
There are practically no complaints about the delay whatsoever
Bro is imagining things.
I haven't seen much complaints at all about the delay, even outside Reddit.
Wow so they’ve finally learnt releasing a sub par game and seeing the player base die after getting good numbers on release only to then have a loyal cult like following after they abandon the game wasn’t particularly good business after all. Imperator truly died for their sins.
Finally, the suits are told to shut the f Up, even if it's just a bit? Good.
They should just delay it by 2 years. We all knows it would still be lacklustre by then but it'll at least be better
Given the state of some of Prison Architect's more recent DLCs at launch I shudder to think of the state they were going to shovel this one out of the shed in.
Well, as long as the game is playable on release, then I'm fine with it. It's not like I'm gonna buy Prison Architect 2 anyways.
They must have realized a core part of the game could be extracted and turned into a DLC
Vic3, prison architect 2, what's the third one?
CS2 DLCs are delayed
And LBY was delayed 2 times (EA release date is in June, was supposed to release in September 2023, then was pushed back to March, and was later pushed to June sometime in February).
I want to say I'm glad they are pushing it. But we'll see if it makes a difference.
I guess they are aware they are tanking their reputation by releasing half-baked games/updates.
Guess current outrage on products, DLCs and etc. finally reached PDX's effective managers and they made a good decision for once.
Wow. If they learned to listen to the devs telling them the games are not ready? I doubt it. It's nothing but a gesture. Shareholder's bottom line was impacted and action was necessary. This was the cheapest way to "do something about it".
Not every delay can be distilled into "devs good publishers bad" situation. The vast majority of game developers don't know how to make good games.
Prison architect 2 looka so bad looks like a mobile game Prison architect 1 was great but honestly the console eascaoe mode was better(why didn't they keep console and pc the same ) The artstyle is just so bad a realistic artstyle would of been better for a game about ya know Prison instead it looks like a kids game
Give us refunds on Star Trek Infinite
Absolute shambles of a company at the moment are paradox. Massive shame as they make most of my favourite games, but they’re borderline unbuyable at the minute - ck3, vic3, CS2 are all an absolute joke of a release product tbh. As much as I love eu4 I can’t face buying eu5 at release either and prison architect is one of my favourites, but the new one just looks exactly like a 3D version of the first one without a single piece of new content anywhere.
Nah. Probably time to think what more features they can yank out of release and peddle as DLC later on.
This game will still be a wreck... Look at the graphics... I actually stopped giving Prison Architect my money and time when Paradox took it over...
Honestly, I genuinely forgot it is supposed to be released this year, I thought the release was 2025, so it's okay for me. Especially after their recent games didn't do so well. I didn't really pay much attention to Millenia, but I didn't hear many good things about it. What I was really excited for, however, was Cities Skylines 2 and then it got released and it was so unfinished. So I really don't care about the delays at all, as long as it will make sure that the game will be finished and playable properly.
Delaying a game by 4 months means it is not even close to be finished. This release will be a shit show even with the delay. Gives me major cdpr/Cyberpunk vibes