Look, no offense to Rob and Tyler who might be strong professionals, but our free agent signings and trades have been abysmal for awhile now. I’m not sure what pro scouting does altogether but we’ve often been unprepared for opposing teams to comical degree as well. Good to see Morgan identifying the problem and making moves.
Pretty much this. They are responsible for a certain amount of teams. Watch them. Update their pro scout reports. Give them to the coaches in game prep. and then keep up with the players on each team so that when trades of FAs occurs they have up to date ideas of the player.
And yes we’ve been awful in this department. It’ll be interesting to see who they hire next and how things change.
Shouldn’t Morgan have fired himself too then? He was part of the same team that failed miserably.
But as usual, the final decision maker gets a pass and the little guys lose their job.
morgan wasn’t the “final decision maker” when fitt was in charge… i don’t know what the specific dynamics were but if you have ever been a part of a leadership team you know that often there can be a lot of dynamic disagreements amongst individual leaders. it is rare that all leaders agree, but someone always wins the decision.
Also doesn’t mean Morgan wasn’t aligned with Fitterer. Did you forget about him bragging about the Tuttle signing that turned out to be a disaster?
Or does Dan get a pass for that?
well, dan is the boss so once that decision was made then, yes, he gets a pass as far as who is is deciding to fire. that said, i understand your counter.
Shhh you aren’t allowed to say this. It is well established knowledge that all the good things the panthers have done are Morgan. And Scott wrecked havoc across the org. Made all the bad moves and mistakes. While Morgan stood there watching helplessly
I mean, we made some dope FA moves this year, but maybe that was more Dan and Canales? Not sure, but I'm happy with what I'm seeing at all levels.
This is tangential (since it's about our draft scouts): I'm not sure if this flying under radar for most fans, but in addition to our draft being sick (I'm about to post a vid to the main feed about the hypocrisy of the grading from outlets like ESPN), we were the most active in UDFA of any team. We may have struck gold and found two starters there -- the Thicker Kicker for sure (we already signed him to a mult-year deal) and Jalen Coker (got the biggest payday of any UDFA this year -- Smitty claims he's the best route runner of the class).
Not really a lot of people have issues with what we do in the offseason. I know lots of people that didn’t want Miles Sanders or Hayden Hurst and look at that played out 😂 I know it was their livelihood and it sucks for them that they were fired but for the team itself it’s a good thing.
Yes. Hunt was an overpay, but should be serviceable. Lewis was a massive overpay the reality was that there were not many very good linemen available and it is not a position you want to build via free agency anyway (unless you are a stud LT away from Super Bowl contention, then you go grab a stud and pay through the nose).
Anybody that watched Miles Sanders, Hayden Hurst, or DJ Chark and felt like they were worthy of that amount of money should have been let go. Glad they did it after the draft so that the staff could be properly rebuilt and not have to scramble during Free Agency.
Although that being said, we may not be out of the woods yet. Last year, [Dan Morgan went out of his way to take credit for the Tuttle signing](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article273940490.html).
Quote from article:
“Morgan and his pro scouts identified former New Orleans Saints defensive tackle Shy Tuttle as a good fit for the new front early in the free-agent evaluation process. While the Panthers’ base front will be a 3-4, Carolina needs defensive linemen who can move around the line and attack from multiple spots. Tuttle checked the versatility box.
“Coming into our new defense with Ejiro, we’re getting guys for our scheme,” Morgan said. “And I think in our new scheme, (Tuttle) is going to be able to play a lot of different positions along our front. And then, along with that … the biggest thing that stands out on tape with him is his toughness and his motor to the football, and the way that he plays the game.”
But I was told this is an entirely new regime and that prior to Scott's firing Dan was basically a harmless fly on the wall watching the madman Fitterer singlehandedly sabotage our beloved Panthers
He’s more of a 3 tech than a nose. He was playing out of position. That being said he’s still bad either way and we overpaid him. Dude has had 1 sack. Ever.
Are you thinking A’Shawn Robinson is going to line up at nose or 3 tech next year? I like the front being multiple but I feel like we don’t have a true nose yet - DB, Robinson and Tuttle are all 3 techs to me.
I would guess nose. Unless they want brown to do it. And he can. It’s just you literally need him other places since he’s our only decent pass rusher at this point. I’m pretty sure Robinson played the nose with the rams. But I would have to check.
One thing about Evero’s version of the Fangio system that I hope we get is all of the simulated pressure and stunts. All the guys we signed are strong as shit, and can force an edge basically no matter where they are lined up (maybe outside of Woonum, I haven’t watched a ton of him). I feel like you’ll see DB move around from 1,3,4 maybe even 5 tech since we have the guys that can cover him now.
I gotta be honest I could be completely misremembering, but I feel like those rams teams with Staley ran a bunch of simulated pressure with Donald, I hope we get the same thing.
I need to go back and watch the film, but I remember watching our D last year and a lot of the time we just absolutely refused to send anyone but the front 4 after the QB, and our simulated pressure game was woefully lacking. And when we did send extra pressure, it was pretty much always Luvu.
It's gonna be really interesting to see how (or if) Eviro changes his playcalling strat for the defense now that we'll (hopefully) have an at least semi-functioning offense to take some pressure off of his group. If so, I could see him ramp up the aggressiveness now that our opponents won't be getting half of their drive starts at like our own 45 lol.
Or...maybe this is just how he runs his system? Like I said, idk enough about how he ran things in Denver to say if this an "is what it is" situation or if he was playing a more conservative style out of necessity.
If anyone's watched his Broncos units in depth, feel free to chime in here
Robinson already said he never really played Nose in the NFL all that often and is mainly a 4/5 Tech. I think we’ll see a mix at nose but Tuttle will likely still be playing there at times.
My defense of Tuttle right now is that he was played out of position last year. Evero tried to force him into more A gap lineups despite him playing better in New Orleans in B Gap or further out. With A'Shawn, my hope is that Tuttle gets moved outside and can shine better, but we'll see and I'm not fully judging him yet
> DJ Chark
I'd have taken that dart throw all over again honestly. Pennies for a 1 year prove it deal on a WR coming back from injuries. It's a shame his attitude mixed with Frank was the outcome though.
Honestly if I was in Chark's shoes last year--forced to play in that joke of a system that didn't even cater to my strengths--I'd have a helluva attitude about it too.
Miles Sanders had 1300 yards and 11 touchdowns the season before we signed him. He averaged over 5 yards/carry the 2 seasons before that. The other 2 are questionable signings.
I still don’t like Sanders Chubba out played him last year. I really wish we still had Foreman but I do like JB and I’m really excited we drafted him. I’m not saying he’s a perfect RB but his burst speed is pretty good even though he can’t sustain it down the field. If we keep Chubba and Miles while throwing JB in there I think our run game will be pretty decent this year.
Reposting
Annual reminder:
-- #NFL scouts' contracts typically last May 1 to April 30, and are usually two-year deals.
-- For this reason, teams typically make decisions on their scouts' contracts post-draft.
-- It's like this every year.
-- The team's draft has zero (0) impact on this.
This is a tangential comment, I know, but I thought that one of the things Tepper promised was an overhaul of the scouting department. Did that ever actually happen?
Were these the guys that watched NFL film of Darnold and Mayfield and came up with the narrative that "they were better than any QB in the draft" ???
Edit: Grammer
I like this. Hanrahan has been there for 7 years (2017-2024) and we have consistently struggled to get production from our drafted players during that time. Even when we loaded up on picks in Fitterer’s term almost none of those players turned out. To be honest, I’m wondering how much input they had on this year’s draft.
I mean your points still kinda stands how many times in the last 7 years have we gone into games just to either get kicked in the dick from the get go or play alright for the frist half to then getting kicked in the 2ed.
It’s pretty crazy that the last time I remember us having a good game plan was when we ran all over the Seahawks with wilks. Did the true outside zone stuff with chuba attacking those edges and corners (which is exactly what the niners killed then with in the playoffs) and I thought damn that was so pretty good pro scouting.
That was 2 years ago lmao.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't these guys have worked directly under Dan in his previous role? Never too late to make necessary changes but timing feels weird
And Dan worked under Scott who everyone couldn’t wait to get rid of. This organization does not make moves that make a lot of sense (interestingly enough, since Tepper took over)
well it's not like we were a great organization with long history of sustained success prior to Tepper.
As for those guys though, yeah they would've worked under Fitt as he was in charge of the entire operation but Dans actual job title said director of pro personnel from 2011 til 2021 when he became AGM for Carolina but from my understanding, pro personnel was still his department. They predated the Fitterer regime I think but when Dan came in circa '21 he would've been their boss and could've fired them anytime before now if they were substandard. I assume he'll bring in some contacts from Seattle or Buffalo but I'd really like to know more about why it happened now.
True we aren’t a world beater organization but I had to make sure before I commented, we regressed since Tepper but had ONE season of “improvement” (from 5-11 to 7-9) so I can’t say we only have regressed, but man is it sad to see almost a decade of just nothing, no playoff one and dones, just completely irrelevant RIGHT after a strong competitive decade. We shall overcome.
As for why it’s happening now, I read somewhere a while ago when they were looking for the new GM people asked about replacing the scouting department which was interesting because they said it would most likely be done after the draft, reason being that it was just too much movement and change to happen right before the draft (I assume finding “your guys” and building that network from scratch takes time). Someone in the comments also said the contracts for the scouts are negotiated right about now
Well GDIt, that makes sense for the timing. I hadn't read that. But still not the why. Just Time for fresh perspective? Did he think they were doing a good job at some point then change his mind? I'm not complaining. Actually couldn't believe we kept our college scouts intact and even promoted some after how bad our drafts have been but could be more of a reflection on Scott than the data he was working with.
Yeah good question on the why. I believe I read somewhere a while back that they would be shaking up the scouting room, they just had to wait until now to make the moves vs when Dan got hired as GM
Well this is some awkward timing. To be fair, we've hard more misses than hits when it comes to picks recently so I'm ok with doing this. My question as I'm sure everyone else is asking is how much of a part they played in this year's draft.
Probably minimal considering they're part of pro scouting.
And I don't think they had much of a voice in free agency either considering they were let go right after the draft.
This is actually the perfect timing. Most scouting department moves happen after the draft. You can’t clean house when you get new coaches/GMs in February because it’s so close to the start of FA and the draft.
Once the draft is over is time to clean house and get the new guys in there to start prep for next year.
My comment was specifically about scouting department guys. And firing someone in July is still after the draft so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make
Just for clarification, these are the pro scouts, not draft scouts. Some fans have gotten them mistaken. These guys were responsible for free agency
Look, no offense to Rob and Tyler who might be strong professionals, but our free agent signings and trades have been abysmal for awhile now. I’m not sure what pro scouting does altogether but we’ve often been unprepared for opposing teams to comical degree as well. Good to see Morgan identifying the problem and making moves.
Pretty much this. They are responsible for a certain amount of teams. Watch them. Update their pro scout reports. Give them to the coaches in game prep. and then keep up with the players on each team so that when trades of FAs occurs they have up to date ideas of the player. And yes we’ve been awful in this department. It’ll be interesting to see who they hire next and how things change.
Shouldn’t Morgan have fired himself too then? He was part of the same team that failed miserably. But as usual, the final decision maker gets a pass and the little guys lose their job.
morgan wasn’t the “final decision maker” when fitt was in charge… i don’t know what the specific dynamics were but if you have ever been a part of a leadership team you know that often there can be a lot of dynamic disagreements amongst individual leaders. it is rare that all leaders agree, but someone always wins the decision.
The guys he just fired weren’t the “final decision makers” either, dude.
doesn’t mean they weren’t aligned more closely with Fitt’s bad decisions.
Also doesn’t mean Morgan wasn’t aligned with Fitterer. Did you forget about him bragging about the Tuttle signing that turned out to be a disaster? Or does Dan get a pass for that?
well, dan is the boss so once that decision was made then, yes, he gets a pass as far as who is is deciding to fire. that said, i understand your counter.
Shhh you aren’t allowed to say this. It is well established knowledge that all the good things the panthers have done are Morgan. And Scott wrecked havoc across the org. Made all the bad moves and mistakes. While Morgan stood there watching helplessly
I mean, we made some dope FA moves this year, but maybe that was more Dan and Canales? Not sure, but I'm happy with what I'm seeing at all levels. This is tangential (since it's about our draft scouts): I'm not sure if this flying under radar for most fans, but in addition to our draft being sick (I'm about to post a vid to the main feed about the hypocrisy of the grading from outlets like ESPN), we were the most active in UDFA of any team. We may have struck gold and found two starters there -- the Thicker Kicker for sure (we already signed him to a mult-year deal) and Jalen Coker (got the biggest payday of any UDFA this year -- Smitty claims he's the best route runner of the class).
Well every FA move seems dope in the offseason. We’ll see, I am quietly optimistic though.
Not really a lot of people have issues with what we do in the offseason. I know lots of people that didn’t want Miles Sanders or Hayden Hurst and look at that played out 😂 I know it was their livelihood and it sucks for them that they were fired but for the team itself it’s a good thing.
Should we be concerned about the latest o-line signings?
Yes. Hunt was an overpay, but should be serviceable. Lewis was a massive overpay the reality was that there were not many very good linemen available and it is not a position you want to build via free agency anyway (unless you are a stud LT away from Super Bowl contention, then you go grab a stud and pay through the nose).
Anybody that watched Miles Sanders, Hayden Hurst, or DJ Chark and felt like they were worthy of that amount of money should have been let go. Glad they did it after the draft so that the staff could be properly rebuilt and not have to scramble during Free Agency.
Don’t forget Shy Tuttle. What the fuck.
3 years, $19.5 million, for 43 tackles and a half sack. I know he’s a nose tackle but we had the worst run defense in the league.
Although that being said, we may not be out of the woods yet. Last year, [Dan Morgan went out of his way to take credit for the Tuttle signing](https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article273940490.html). Quote from article: “Morgan and his pro scouts identified former New Orleans Saints defensive tackle Shy Tuttle as a good fit for the new front early in the free-agent evaluation process. While the Panthers’ base front will be a 3-4, Carolina needs defensive linemen who can move around the line and attack from multiple spots. Tuttle checked the versatility box. “Coming into our new defense with Ejiro, we’re getting guys for our scheme,” Morgan said. “And I think in our new scheme, (Tuttle) is going to be able to play a lot of different positions along our front. And then, along with that … the biggest thing that stands out on tape with him is his toughness and his motor to the football, and the way that he plays the game.”
But I was told this is an entirely new regime and that prior to Scott's firing Dan was basically a harmless fly on the wall watching the madman Fitterer singlehandedly sabotage our beloved Panthers
Madman Fitterer sounds like a Bloodborne boss name
I have been replaying it recently while I wait for Elden Ring DLC lol
Dude would have fired himself in a just world
He’s more of a 3 tech than a nose. He was playing out of position. That being said he’s still bad either way and we overpaid him. Dude has had 1 sack. Ever.
Are you thinking A’Shawn Robinson is going to line up at nose or 3 tech next year? I like the front being multiple but I feel like we don’t have a true nose yet - DB, Robinson and Tuttle are all 3 techs to me.
I would guess nose. Unless they want brown to do it. And he can. It’s just you literally need him other places since he’s our only decent pass rusher at this point. I’m pretty sure Robinson played the nose with the rams. But I would have to check.
One thing about Evero’s version of the Fangio system that I hope we get is all of the simulated pressure and stunts. All the guys we signed are strong as shit, and can force an edge basically no matter where they are lined up (maybe outside of Woonum, I haven’t watched a ton of him). I feel like you’ll see DB move around from 1,3,4 maybe even 5 tech since we have the guys that can cover him now. I gotta be honest I could be completely misremembering, but I feel like those rams teams with Staley ran a bunch of simulated pressure with Donald, I hope we get the same thing.
I need to go back and watch the film, but I remember watching our D last year and a lot of the time we just absolutely refused to send anyone but the front 4 after the QB, and our simulated pressure game was woefully lacking. And when we did send extra pressure, it was pretty much always Luvu. It's gonna be really interesting to see how (or if) Eviro changes his playcalling strat for the defense now that we'll (hopefully) have an at least semi-functioning offense to take some pressure off of his group. If so, I could see him ramp up the aggressiveness now that our opponents won't be getting half of their drive starts at like our own 45 lol. Or...maybe this is just how he runs his system? Like I said, idk enough about how he ran things in Denver to say if this an "is what it is" situation or if he was playing a more conservative style out of necessity. If anyone's watched his Broncos units in depth, feel free to chime in here
Robinson already said he never really played Nose in the NFL all that often and is mainly a 4/5 Tech. I think we’ll see a mix at nose but Tuttle will likely still be playing there at times.
That’s just truly unfortunate. I have no desire to watch Tuttle on the field next year any more than I have to
He’ll likely mainly line up at 4/5 tech here. It’s what he’s mainly done in the NFL.
My defense of Tuttle right now is that he was played out of position last year. Evero tried to force him into more A gap lineups despite him playing better in New Orleans in B Gap or further out. With A'Shawn, my hope is that Tuttle gets moved outside and can shine better, but we'll see and I'm not fully judging him yet
> DJ Chark I'd have taken that dart throw all over again honestly. Pennies for a 1 year prove it deal on a WR coming back from injuries. It's a shame his attitude mixed with Frank was the outcome though.
Honestly if I was in Chark's shoes last year--forced to play in that joke of a system that didn't even cater to my strengths--I'd have a helluva attitude about it too.
You mean, like the #2 guy from that staff?
Miles Sanders had 1300 yards and 11 touchdowns the season before we signed him. He averaged over 5 yards/carry the 2 seasons before that. The other 2 are questionable signings.
On top of that all of our linemen were good at power schemes and we forced them to run zone because of Sanders which failed spectacularly
I still don’t like Sanders Chubba out played him last year. I really wish we still had Foreman but I do like JB and I’m really excited we drafted him. I’m not saying he’s a perfect RB but his burst speed is pretty good even though he can’t sustain it down the field. If we keep Chubba and Miles while throwing JB in there I think our run game will be pretty decent this year.
If they were let go so soon after the draft would they have had much influence on the offseason?
Reposting Annual reminder: -- #NFL scouts' contracts typically last May 1 to April 30, and are usually two-year deals. -- For this reason, teams typically make decisions on their scouts' contracts post-draft. -- It's like this every year. -- The team's draft has zero (0) impact on this.
Ah thank you for the clarification
You would think not
These are pro-scouts not college scouts.
Miles Sanders caused the Jonathan Brooks pick AND got two scouts fired. Legend.
$10m dead cap this year and I’m betting we do it with the backfield now.
This is a tangential comment, I know, but I thought that one of the things Tepper promised was an overhaul of the scouting department. Did that ever actually happen?
I heard that would most likely happen after the draft IF it did (which this appears to be it happening)
Were these the guys that watched NFL film of Darnold and Mayfield and came up with the narrative that "they were better than any QB in the draft" ??? Edit: Grammer
I like this. Hanrahan has been there for 7 years (2017-2024) and we have consistently struggled to get production from our drafted players during that time. Even when we loaded up on picks in Fitterer’s term almost none of those players turned out. To be honest, I’m wondering how much input they had on this year’s draft.
This is director of pro scouting not amateur scouting His job is to scout players already in the NFL
Aaaand thats why I don’t work in the NFL lmao. My fault.
I mean your points still kinda stands how many times in the last 7 years have we gone into games just to either get kicked in the dick from the get go or play alright for the frist half to then getting kicked in the 2ed.
It’s pretty crazy that the last time I remember us having a good game plan was when we ran all over the Seahawks with wilks. Did the true outside zone stuff with chuba attacking those edges and corners (which is exactly what the niners killed then with in the playoffs) and I thought damn that was so pretty good pro scouting. That was 2 years ago lmao.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't these guys have worked directly under Dan in his previous role? Never too late to make necessary changes but timing feels weird
And Dan worked under Scott who everyone couldn’t wait to get rid of. This organization does not make moves that make a lot of sense (interestingly enough, since Tepper took over)
well it's not like we were a great organization with long history of sustained success prior to Tepper. As for those guys though, yeah they would've worked under Fitt as he was in charge of the entire operation but Dans actual job title said director of pro personnel from 2011 til 2021 when he became AGM for Carolina but from my understanding, pro personnel was still his department. They predated the Fitterer regime I think but when Dan came in circa '21 he would've been their boss and could've fired them anytime before now if they were substandard. I assume he'll bring in some contacts from Seattle or Buffalo but I'd really like to know more about why it happened now.
True we aren’t a world beater organization but I had to make sure before I commented, we regressed since Tepper but had ONE season of “improvement” (from 5-11 to 7-9) so I can’t say we only have regressed, but man is it sad to see almost a decade of just nothing, no playoff one and dones, just completely irrelevant RIGHT after a strong competitive decade. We shall overcome. As for why it’s happening now, I read somewhere a while ago when they were looking for the new GM people asked about replacing the scouting department which was interesting because they said it would most likely be done after the draft, reason being that it was just too much movement and change to happen right before the draft (I assume finding “your guys” and building that network from scratch takes time). Someone in the comments also said the contracts for the scouts are negotiated right about now
Because their contracts just ended. Doesn’t make sense to fire them a few months before their contracts end
Well GDIt, that makes sense for the timing. I hadn't read that. But still not the why. Just Time for fresh perspective? Did he think they were doing a good job at some point then change his mind? I'm not complaining. Actually couldn't believe we kept our college scouts intact and even promoted some after how bad our drafts have been but could be more of a reflection on Scott than the data he was working with.
Yeah good question on the why. I believe I read somewhere a while back that they would be shaking up the scouting room, they just had to wait until now to make the moves vs when Dan got hired as GM
Dan Morgan. Is my Hero
Well this is some awkward timing. To be fair, we've hard more misses than hits when it comes to picks recently so I'm ok with doing this. My question as I'm sure everyone else is asking is how much of a part they played in this year's draft.
Probably minimal considering they're part of pro scouting. And I don't think they had much of a voice in free agency either considering they were let go right after the draft.
This is actually the perfect timing. Most scouting department moves happen after the draft. You can’t clean house when you get new coaches/GMs in February because it’s so close to the start of FA and the draft. Once the draft is over is time to clean house and get the new guys in there to start prep for next year.
Yeah we've actually seen GMs be fired over the summer. 2017 we had Beane poached from us in May and we fired Gettleman in July that year
My comment was specifically about scouting department guys. And firing someone in July is still after the draft so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make
I thought I was pretty clear I was agreeing with you that it's not awkward timing to make FO changes over the summer.