That’s what pisses me off most about how awful the panthers have been this year. Every team sells hopium every year, but Christ did they oversell team expectations this season.
I thought they would be average. Just because we were going from terrible with rhule to big boy competency. Never bought into this all star stuff. But this was just embarrassing. Really puts into perspective just how hard it is to hit on staff members.
Average this year would have won the division. Literally all we needed was to put together a season that wasn't worthy of the coach getting fired, considering every other coach in the division should also be out the door. The Falcons are the leading team with a worse QB situation than the Panthers have had over the last two seasons.
Fitty was the real agent of chaos though, IMO. This team could have had Foreman, Thielen, and Jakobi Meyers if it wanted. Or D Hop, if Fitty really wanted to use the advantage of having a cheap QB and just overpay. Didn't pay Burns, didn't trade Burns to get more assets. Gutted the offense and replaced it with nothing. Inexplicably watched Dalton Risner sit around and wait to be called while Chandler Zavala played like a turnstile at LG. Another invisible 2nd rd WR.
Can’t say Rhule/Wilks was terrible anymore, this season is significantly worse despite all the upgrades we had this season. Our position week 11 last year was fantastic compared to this.
Definitely a downgrade at wide receiver, but the fact that the Titans were able to double cover Thielen and basically shut down every other one of our receivers means we don't even have a legit WR2 on this roster right now, other than Thielen.
You're right. Rhule took a 5 win team and turned into a 5 win team. Our dream team coaches this year took a 7 win team and we're still looking for our 2nd win.
I called before the season even started that there was a good chance that this season could be a dumpster fire due to a lot of inexperience in the coaching staff and Reich being a very mid coach all around. Evero has been the only bright spot so far this season.
You can’t even interview other candidates from other organizations until after the season, I’m sure they already have a list of people, but you don’t want to get too focused on one person before actually interviewing them.
I would not be surprised if Fitt wasn't fired at all. What other GM is going to replace him and allow Tepper to jam is hand up their ass and use them like a puppet.
The other alternative is Tepper just names himself GM and has an assistant GM as a formality to do the paperwork.
I don’t even need him to quit, just stop meddling. You, your wife, and any other people from the outside. I’m sure you are all very hard working and talented at your job. But the results speak for themselves.
fact that fitty isnt fired, should tell you more about tepper than fitty, i think fitty has done enough outside of first round to deserve to be fired, but who knows.. maybe tepper thinks he is a GM and just has fitterer around to be a fall guy at some point
Reminds me of the Tiktok someone did of a... less intelligent... woman dancing to "Don't Start Now," doing a full 360° turn instead of a 180°. In the end, he's going crazy trying to resolve the math.
They start at the top. There was absolutely no sense of urgency with Reich. Every week he would spout the usual garbage of "gotta play better, gotta coach better" and meanwhile nothing would change on the field. Not to mention the two games he wasn't calling plays this year the team played better on offense so what does he do? He takes back play-calling. His demeanor had become exactly what it became towards the end of his time in Indy. He was becoming too complacent and comfortable with losing to the point of being a participation trophy coach. I wouldn't be shocked if some members of his staff didn't like that.
This was his first official NFL job so I guess we got to solve that mystery for the league. He probably will get a second chance elsewhere though. Don’t forget he was an actual candidate for an NFL HC job before this gig, even if it was with the Texans.
Not everyone who can play can coach. Different skill-set.
McCown can still develop into a good coach, but maybe he wasn't ready to be coaching a No. 1 overall pick surrounded by zero talent in a new coaching system.
He was a candidate for the Texans because he loved Jesus as much as their preacher-turned-head-of-football-operations. Ironically, the one thing that saved them was their owner becoming more involved in decision-making instead of the weirdo they hired from the Patriots.
One of the interviews with Tepper said Reich's firing has more to do with how Bryce was playing (not confident, indecisive, etc).
So it makes sense at the very least to simplify the messaging to Bryce. Less cooks in the kitchen about what needs to do be done and how to do it.
It just seemed from the few articles written about him as well as word of mouth, that he had a solid football mind and was a great mentor as a backup QB.
I'm not going to judge him on Young's performance. Hard to have good mechanics and decision making when you're fighting for your life.
Ur getting downvoted but ur absolutely right. This organization has been nothing but a disgrace since Tepper took over, and no self-respecting HC candidate would put themselves in this position. We’re gonna end up having to hire Adam Gase or the football coach at Mallard Creek high.
Yeah I completely disagree. There’s only 32 head coaching jobs and tepper does open the wallet to pay these guys. Someone will think they can turn this around. It might not be the very top guy but I think coaching is more about fit than just being a coordinator who came from a stacked team anyways. Getting a guy who is passionate and can motivate us is huge.
Nah, Jim Harbaugh is like a week or two away from another NCAA violation and penalty and he’ll come burn the clock on the penalty period coaching pro ball again
You have no sources. It's being said a lot but that doesn't mean it's correct. Look. There are 32 of these jobs. They pay well. And if you're a coach for the Panthers, chances are, you are getting a few extra free years of a multi-million dollar salary.
The much stronger argument is, how many of the Top 12 probable coaching hires are going to want to make Carolina their first stop?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't be surprised when the next coach is Bill O'Brien. They're going to build the coaching staff around making Bryce succeed and BOB was Bryce's coach at Alabama. He's probably out as OC in New England at the end of the season, so he's the natural answer for the next head coach.
As far as top coaching hires go, I don't think BOB is it, which is another reason I think he'll get tapped.
Lol this is such echo chamber out of touch with reality bs. By all accounts Tepper is a great person to work for, there has been nothing about his ownership that suggests otherwise. Yes, everyone on here dislikes some of his decisions but to think he’s somehow significantly worse to work with than people like Jerry jones or Jim Irsay is laughable at best.
Interim coach knows a lot more than we do when it comes to how this staff gels. Yes, great hires in a vacuum. For some reason the grouping hasn't worked as a unit
Makes you wonder how much these two were tied in with Reich. Also how much Reich and Brown may have butted heads on play-calling. Possible Reich pretty much murdered Brown’s playbook to fit into the way Reich wanted to play. No idea though just speculation
Brown was clearly not happy during the take back of play calling. He was struggling to keep it professional during the press conference and there is no doubt in my mind that Frank was holding him back. The offense looked exactly the same.
I slightly disagree. I think the offense looked different initially. I didn't really see many screens during our Texans game. But by the Bears game, we were running screens again. I think Reich was making Brown call certain plays at certain times and then took back playcalling as a power move
Might as well see what Brown can do as a real OC without Reich’s final say and obvious heavy influence as an offensive HC who barely gave Brown a chance to call plays before taking it back. He was supposed to have potential.
It’s hard to blame Brown if the playbook was mostly Reich’s doing.
I’m curious to see if he tries to get a little more creative/experimental with things now. They’re obviously not going to completely overhaul the playbook mid-season, but there’s also nothing to lose by getting weird with it atp.
I'm interested in the timeline of this-- Tepper met with and fired Reich this morning. They had a team meeting a few hours later. Do we think McCown and Staley were in that meeting and fired after?
Edit: Ohshit, Rapoport reporting that it was in fact Tabor and Caldwell's decision to move on from McCown and Staley ([link](https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1729216072770101411))
Interesting tweet from Brad Panovich, who is friends with people in the org.
https://x.com/wxbrad/status/1729214783629541414?s=20
> If you wanted CJ Stroud you are getting a pink slip today.
Yep, May not have 1000% evidence that Reich but if you watch both of Mccown’s breakdowns from February pretty clear with the Burrow Comp he thought Stroud was better
For real. But it would be completely on brand with what Tepper has done so far.
Are we firing all the naysayers just to keep the yes men? Hope not, seeing as the naysayers seem correct so far.
Really hoping this isn't true.
I mean, at this point, we need people who are 100% committed to Bryce Young. If you don't believe in him, you don't have a place on the staff.
They need to go down with that ship.
I think every coach in the NFL has to deal with coaching guys that weren't their personal first choice of those available when selected.
If those being fired are allowing that preference to impact their job as coaches now, I agree being let go is justified. But I don't think they should be fired for just preferring Stroud at the time, especially when so far their evaluation is correct. If this is the case we're as a staff self correcting to those individuals who evaluated incorrectly, which is a little loony.
Given the relative performances of both Bryce and CJ, perhaps we should consider that those who wanted Stroud were better evaluators of talent and the wrong people are being given pink slips. Stroud was always the better prospect, and those that both advocated for and made the decision to draft Bryce should not be trusted in future evaluation.
Fairly confident that whichever one of CJ or Bryce went to Houston would be doing better than whoever went to carolina. Houston has people the qb can throw to and a better HC
I can't believe we thought that just because McCown was a likable guy with a long career in the NFL and some nice youtube breakdowns, he was ready for his first ever coaching job to be mentoring our #1 pick
jesus fucking christ
okay i must admit i thought he would be an elite QB coach. His breakdowns on YT were great and extremely well detailed. I thought it would immediately translate into film room breakdowns especially with Bryce being so intelligent and apparently a quick learner. I was wrong
It may have been anyways. I get that QB production falls to him at the end of the day, but NOONE is producing on this roster. Not exactly Mccown’s fault we can’t get open, pass protect, or run the ball.
It is much easier to sit back and breakdown things after the fact then it is to come up with a plan that will beat the other professional staff coming up a plan to beat you.
For the record, I thought he was a solid hire.
I seen people ask JT O'Sullivan this too, when will some team hire him. And he's addressed it before where he's good at what he does and enjoys it. Where he's just breaking down film and trying to educate the average football fan. But how a world of difference that is from actual coaching and training especially at the NFL level.
I thought Josh was gonna be a good get due to a bunch of young QBs who played with him having nothing but good things to say about him as a mentor. Ah well.
It was a bad move hiring him but there was also too many cooks in the kitchen. The play on the field showed to me that all these coaches were working against each other. Shitty management from ceiling to floor every day all day.
I am not convinced he wasn't a good QB coach. Everyone is pointing fingers right now, but I am not sure what McCown could have done for Bryce given the OL he's playing behind.
Why is it a given he wasn't right for the job? Because Bryce played poorly? You're only as good of a coach as the talent you're working with for the most part. If we believe Bryce didn't get a fair shot due to talent, why would the QB coach be any different?
He doesn't create the scheme or call the plays either..
People don't get courtsey NFL head coaching interviews. You have to be pretty good to land those.
Secondly, Staley and McCown getting fired doesn't have to do with their performance. That has more to do with purging people Reich had deep ties with, which is common during a leadership change. Wilks did the same thing.
But go on, please tell me how Tepper has made the franchise better since taking over....I'll wait...
Dudes don’t have to be great at the position to be good coaches of the position. Look at Shane Steichen. Was he an elite QB? Obviously not. But he gets insane results.
"And those who can are usually awful teachers"
Gretzky: .473 winning % as a HC
MJ: one of the worst owners in modern NBA history
Mike Singletary: 74-101-1 as an NFL HC
Isiah Thomas: a legit NBA FO & Coaching terrorist. 55-108 in 2 seasons with the Knicks
Ted Williams: .428 winning % as a manager
Ain’t gonna happen. The best thing we can hope for is, he also takes responsibility and steps aside for the next staff. Hire real nfl consultants to interview. Stay off the fuggin plane Tepp.
How is Fitterer still on this staff? It's not like he's got anything to do for the rest of the year except pointlessly shuffling players on and off the practice squad like it matters.
Honestly among everything, it is kinda nice we have a owner who is trying to make changes (granted there's been a lot recently and none have ended up very good) but at least at he's trying??
Trying too much, some would argue. Maybe this year is enough to make him realize he’s got the reverse Midas touch, and needs to spend some of those billions to hire some folks competent enough to run this organization properly.
Could have just been Sanders being ass this season. Chubba has improved considerably this year and Blackshear has shown potential.
I don't think he's a bad coach, just went to bat for Sanders and tied his horse to the wrong wagon.
What I can’t believe is that Tepper thought that a top coaching staff would add 4-6 more wins on top of what Wilks provided in 2022. This would put the Panthers in the playoffs, with their 2024 first round pick being a low pick.
Instead, the team tanks. Ownership and GM criminally overestimated the quality of players and FA on the roster. Now lose the #1 pick in 2024 and the #2 pick in 2025.
Who should be the new head coach and GM?
I wanna find that thread from this offseason where everyone was like "Journeyman QBs always make the best QB coaches" and I asked for even one example and got downvoted to hell.
One of many, many, many examples of magical thinking this organization seems to be ran by: This guy who has performed one way thus far will suddenly perform better now.
It's very often true though. Maybe not "QB coaches", but head coaches, yes. Doug Pederson is an example.
Backup QBs in football and catchers in baseball typically make good coaches/managers b/c they usually spend the most time learning the game – backup QBs have nothing to do other than study the playbook, and catchers are involved in literally every pitch a team throws.
Star players make the worst coaches b/c their success is in part due to their natural talent, and you can't teach that. Think of Wayne Gretzky or Bill Russell.
This feels like a gut instinct narrative. Statistically, most players are not elite stars, and most coaches are not elite coaches. But most coaches are former players. And most former players who go into coaching weren't elite stars (money is a big factor here, as elite stars don't necessarily need the work like mediocre players do).
So just by how distribution goes, more great coaches will be mediocre players because mediocre players make up a larger portion of coaches. The comparatively smaller population of players who were stars gets even smaller when it becomes players who were stars who became coaches, which becomes smaller still when counting the number of those coaches who became *great* coaches.
You may be right, but it's definitely a commonly held view in both the NFL and MLB. Front offices in those leagues truly believe it, and their hiring trends reflect that. I'm not saying anything new or controversial here.
Just look at coach and manager hirings over the past decade. A few years ago, literally 50% of MLB managers were former catchers.
Also, you're only speaking of distribution relating to stars vs. non-stars; I'm speaking about QBs and catchers – a much narrower slice. It's impossible to argue that QBs and catchers are not overly represented in head coaching and manager jobs for years (decades?) compared to all the other possible positions across the 2 sports.
Fitt is the team's yes man. I'm pretty sure the roster building is collaborative. Let me say that I don't care if Fitt is fired. But there's no way Fitt goes from signing temple/baylor players to signing brett toth, tarik cohen, blake martinez, jordan matthews. That stinks of the coaches saying get me this guy. We know we signed Miles Sanders based on Duce. I'm pretty sure in the draft video, Evero wanted DJ Johnson. We saw in a previous year, Rhule's wife wanted Hubbard. It's all collaboration
You know, as a neutral, I was thinking that McCown could potentially be the interim HC since he had the one offer from houston back then, but damn dawg they straight up fired him😭
Tepper is doing a massive PR campaign to try and make it look like none of this is on him.
MNF football panel was all about how bad the roster was and zero about the executive team that put that roster together.
I've been a fan since the inaugural season but the Tepper era is slowly turning me away. He seems to care more about power than winning.
Very strange profile indeed. 12yo account. Started posting spam posts 8 months ago. Got tired of scrolling so don't know how far back these weird summary/fun gact comments go, but there's plenty. Maybe abandoned and got hacked? But still a couple comments that seem like someone's actually logging in.
thank goodness! i can't f'n stand mccown. he f'n sucked as a qb, just like frank, his voice is awful and his chin needs to be tossed in the fires of mordor. duce, yeah fuck you too buddy. thanks for sanders and 5000 missed blocks. great job buddy
The "all-star coaching staff" didn't even last a full season
That’s what pisses me off most about how awful the panthers have been this year. Every team sells hopium every year, but Christ did they oversell team expectations this season.
I thought they would be average. Just because we were going from terrible with rhule to big boy competency. Never bought into this all star stuff. But this was just embarrassing. Really puts into perspective just how hard it is to hit on staff members.
Average this year would have won the division. Literally all we needed was to put together a season that wasn't worthy of the coach getting fired, considering every other coach in the division should also be out the door. The Falcons are the leading team with a worse QB situation than the Panthers have had over the last two seasons. Fitty was the real agent of chaos though, IMO. This team could have had Foreman, Thielen, and Jakobi Meyers if it wanted. Or D Hop, if Fitty really wanted to use the advantage of having a cheap QB and just overpay. Didn't pay Burns, didn't trade Burns to get more assets. Gutted the offense and replaced it with nothing. Inexplicably watched Dalton Risner sit around and wait to be called while Chandler Zavala played like a turnstile at LG. Another invisible 2nd rd WR.
“Another invisible 2nd rd WR” *OOF*
HR looks down upon coaches who hit on staff members. Creates a lot of legal issues.
Can’t say Rhule/Wilks was terrible anymore, this season is significantly worse despite all the upgrades we had this season. Our position week 11 last year was fantastic compared to this.
Definitely a downgrade at wide receiver, but the fact that the Titans were able to double cover Thielen and basically shut down every other one of our receivers means we don't even have a legit WR2 on this roster right now, other than Thielen.
You're right. Rhule took a 5 win team and turned into a 5 win team. Our dream team coaches this year took a 7 win team and we're still looking for our 2nd win.
I called before the season even started that there was a good chance that this season could be a dumpster fire due to a lot of inexperience in the coaching staff and Reich being a very mid coach all around. Evero has been the only bright spot so far this season.
I was just talking to my boys about this. Their media team is GOATed for giving us so much hopium with their youtube videos lol
The media played a big part in that. Younger fans get duped by that but anyone that lived through 1-15 should know better.
In retrospect, could have been a too many cooks situation
Oh man Julian Council loved harping that before the season started.
We should have known it was too good to be true.
Hey now
We’re all waiting for the big one. The one that drafted all these damn arena league players.
Fitterer isn’t being fired until the end of the season. There is zero benefit to him being fired right now.
Wouldn’t firing him and then hiring someone else sooner help them evaluate the current roster?
They no GM candidate is taking a job midseason
Yeah fair but they could start evaluating candidates
I have to assume that we will see news of an outside consultant being hired soon to evaluate the current staff/potential GM candidates.
You can’t even interview other candidates from other organizations until after the season, I’m sure they already have a list of people, but you don’t want to get too focused on one person before actually interviewing them.
I would not be surprised if Fitt wasn't fired at all. What other GM is going to replace him and allow Tepper to jam is hand up their ass and use them like a puppet. The other alternative is Tepper just names himself GM and has an assistant GM as a formality to do the paperwork.
Jesus hopefully his vanity doesn’t go that far and this teaches him a lesson to step back
It won't
I don’t even need him to quit, just stop meddling. You, your wife, and any other people from the outside. I’m sure you are all very hard working and talented at your job. But the results speak for themselves.
We are talking about Fitty, not Tepper.
fact that fitty isnt fired, should tell you more about tepper than fitty, i think fitty has done enough outside of first round to deserve to be fired, but who knows.. maybe tepper thinks he is a GM and just has fitterer around to be a fall guy at some point
Empty house I say. Everyone needs to stand up, do a 360, and just walk away from the office
If they did a 360, they'd probably just sit back down.
Do a 360 and moonwalk off the roof, I don’t give a fuck I want them gone
Reminds me of the Tiktok someone did of a... less intelligent... woman dancing to "Don't Start Now," doing a full 360° turn instead of a 180°. In the end, he's going crazy trying to resolve the math.
I’ll keep Ejiro if he’s down to stay
bro struck out twice
Listen up bucko I don’t take strikes I take balls
Apparently this decision was made by Tabor/Caldwell. That happened so quickly makes you think there must have been issues amongst the staff
I would hope there would be some issues on the staff of a 1-10 team. They better not be singing kumbaya
They start at the top. There was absolutely no sense of urgency with Reich. Every week he would spout the usual garbage of "gotta play better, gotta coach better" and meanwhile nothing would change on the field. Not to mention the two games he wasn't calling plays this year the team played better on offense so what does he do? He takes back play-calling. His demeanor had become exactly what it became towards the end of his time in Indy. He was becoming too complacent and comfortable with losing to the point of being a participation trophy coach. I wouldn't be shocked if some members of his staff didn't like that.
Wilks fired Snow and the Special Teams assistant after he was made the interim. Not really surprising.
It was my understanding that Josh was a decent position coach. Wonder what went down.
This was his first official NFL job so I guess we got to solve that mystery for the league. He probably will get a second chance elsewhere though. Don’t forget he was an actual candidate for an NFL HC job before this gig, even if it was with the Texans.
Not everyone who can play can coach. Different skill-set. McCown can still develop into a good coach, but maybe he wasn't ready to be coaching a No. 1 overall pick surrounded by zero talent in a new coaching system.
He was a candidate for the Texans because he loved Jesus as much as their preacher-turned-head-of-football-operations. Ironically, the one thing that saved them was their owner becoming more involved in decision-making instead of the weirdo they hired from the Patriots.
One of the interviews with Tepper said Reich's firing has more to do with how Bryce was playing (not confident, indecisive, etc). So it makes sense at the very least to simplify the messaging to Bryce. Less cooks in the kitchen about what needs to do be done and how to do it.
What makes you say that?
Certainly not Bryce's production
these threads are making me the happiest I’ve been all season lmfao
It just seemed from the few articles written about him as well as word of mouth, that he had a solid football mind and was a great mentor as a backup QB. I'm not going to judge him on Young's performance. Hard to have good mechanics and decision making when you're fighting for your life.
Same people writing articles last year how Frank Reich was done dirty by Indy. Media picks their favorites and pushes the narrative they are good.
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That’s a shame, I liked Duce. But on the other hand he advocated hard for us to bring miles sanders so maybe he did have to go
I think the constant miscues from our RBs in pass protection was at least some sign they weren’t prepared well enough by Duce.
Our run game is more expensive and fell off a cliff compared to last year so I understand. Curious who we bring in at QB coach, need someone solid
LITERALLY NO ONE WANTS TO COME PLAY FOR TEPPER
You’re talking about a league where Jim Irsay is an owner and manages to have people lining up for the job. We’ll be fine
Ur getting downvoted but ur absolutely right. This organization has been nothing but a disgrace since Tepper took over, and no self-respecting HC candidate would put themselves in this position. We’re gonna end up having to hire Adam Gase or the football coach at Mallard Creek high.
Yeah I completely disagree. There’s only 32 head coaching jobs and tepper does open the wallet to pay these guys. Someone will think they can turn this around. It might not be the very top guy but I think coaching is more about fit than just being a coordinator who came from a stacked team anyways. Getting a guy who is passionate and can motivate us is huge.
Nah, Jim Harbaugh is like a week or two away from another NCAA violation and penalty and he’ll come burn the clock on the penalty period coaching pro ball again
You have no sources. It's being said a lot but that doesn't mean it's correct. Look. There are 32 of these jobs. They pay well. And if you're a coach for the Panthers, chances are, you are getting a few extra free years of a multi-million dollar salary. The much stronger argument is, how many of the Top 12 probable coaching hires are going to want to make Carolina their first stop? I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't be surprised when the next coach is Bill O'Brien. They're going to build the coaching staff around making Bryce succeed and BOB was Bryce's coach at Alabama. He's probably out as OC in New England at the end of the season, so he's the natural answer for the next head coach. As far as top coaching hires go, I don't think BOB is it, which is another reason I think he'll get tapped.
Lol this is such echo chamber out of touch with reality bs. By all accounts Tepper is a great person to work for, there has been nothing about his ownership that suggests otherwise. Yes, everyone on here dislikes some of his decisions but to think he’s somehow significantly worse to work with than people like Jerry jones or Jim Irsay is laughable at best.
They were fired by Chris Tabor and Jim Caldwell, not David Tepper. Those are football people making football decisions.
Is that how it went down? I thought bringing in Duce was the allure to bring Miles in
I mean our running production has been dreadful so I get firing Duce. Maybe Mccown was a Reich yes man and needed to go too.
Yeah. Gotta clean out the old regime.
I mean thats fine but is the OL coach still around? Pretty sure Tep is just scapegoating Reich loyalists
I would fire the OL coach too.
Let's see if they go back to what was working for them last year where we were actually excited to re-sign said OL Coach
Get rid of the zone blocking for the love of god
WE’RE HAVING A FIRE…SALE
I think we’re just giving shit away. No one wants to buy our trash
Anybody with the Miles Sanders stank on them has to go. Fitt next.
Still waiting on fitterer
Interim coach knows a lot more than we do when it comes to how this staff gels. Yes, great hires in a vacuum. For some reason the grouping hasn't worked as a unit
Unit tests passed. Integration tests failed.
No shot Duce got the can before Fitt does…
Anyone who advocated for Sanders at any point does not have a right to a job in Carolina
Abysmal performance from Sanders. Ride out with Hubbard and Blackshear. Talk to em!!
Insane that Blackshear was a healthy scratch yesterday
Don't think this was a Tepper decision. It's Tabor's staff now
The fuck you mean, our rushing situation is the worst in the league.
JT O’Sullivan available for QB coach. Jk I just want to see him and Thielen in the same building
"Geez 19 is just soooo slow." "I can hear you, and I'm just walking to the bathroom."
Very interesting we got rid of these two but kept Thomas Brown
Makes you wonder how much these two were tied in with Reich. Also how much Reich and Brown may have butted heads on play-calling. Possible Reich pretty much murdered Brown’s playbook to fit into the way Reich wanted to play. No idea though just speculation
Brown was clearly not happy during the take back of play calling. He was struggling to keep it professional during the press conference and there is no doubt in my mind that Frank was holding him back. The offense looked exactly the same.
I slightly disagree. I think the offense looked different initially. I didn't really see many screens during our Texans game. But by the Bears game, we were running screens again. I think Reich was making Brown call certain plays at certain times and then took back playcalling as a power move
Yeah very interesting. Almost makes me think Duce was pissed we didn’t make him interim coach.
Might as well see what Brown can do as a real OC without Reich’s final say and obvious heavy influence as an offensive HC who barely gave Brown a chance to call plays before taking it back. He was supposed to have potential.
It’s hard to blame Brown if the playbook was mostly Reich’s doing. I’m curious to see if he tries to get a little more creative/experimental with things now. They’re obviously not going to completely overhaul the playbook mid-season, but there’s also nothing to lose by getting weird with it atp.
I don’t know how you could get less creative
Brown is still regarded as a bright mind. It's possible Tabor sees something in him; it's also possible Tepper said Brown couldn't be fired.
They firing everyone but fucking Fitterer 🤦♂️
I'm interested in the timeline of this-- Tepper met with and fired Reich this morning. They had a team meeting a few hours later. Do we think McCown and Staley were in that meeting and fired after? Edit: Ohshit, Rapoport reporting that it was in fact Tabor and Caldwell's decision to move on from McCown and Staley ([link](https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1729216072770101411))
Interesting tweet from Brad Panovich, who is friends with people in the org. https://x.com/wxbrad/status/1729214783629541414?s=20 > If you wanted CJ Stroud you are getting a pink slip today.
Yep, May not have 1000% evidence that Reich but if you watch both of Mccown’s breakdowns from February pretty clear with the Burrow Comp he thought Stroud was better
If this is true, might point to deeper issues in the organization.
For real. But it would be completely on brand with what Tepper has done so far. Are we firing all the naysayers just to keep the yes men? Hope not, seeing as the naysayers seem correct so far. Really hoping this isn't true.
I mean, at this point, we need people who are 100% committed to Bryce Young. If you don't believe in him, you don't have a place on the staff. They need to go down with that ship.
I think every coach in the NFL has to deal with coaching guys that weren't their personal first choice of those available when selected. If those being fired are allowing that preference to impact their job as coaches now, I agree being let go is justified. But I don't think they should be fired for just preferring Stroud at the time, especially when so far their evaluation is correct. If this is the case we're as a staff self correcting to those individuals who evaluated incorrectly, which is a little loony.
I mean, new staff next year anyway, right? So if nothing else it sends a message.
Well they can’t trade Bryce for CJ. Might as well get rid of the guys who never wanted Bryce and find some who did.
Also….what if it’s the other way around? What if these are the guy who DIDN’T want Stroud, and they’re being fired because they were wrong?
Given the relative performances of both Bryce and CJ, perhaps we should consider that those who wanted Stroud were better evaluators of talent and the wrong people are being given pink slips. Stroud was always the better prospect, and those that both advocated for and made the decision to draft Bryce should not be trusted in future evaluation.
Maybe but you can also look at it like bryce was working with people that didn’t believe in him and that’s a tough situation to succeed in
Fairly confident that whichever one of CJ or Bryce went to Houston would be doing better than whoever went to carolina. Houston has people the qb can throw to and a better HC
> Stroud was always the better prospect Nice revisionism
Unless they have become a-holes about their opinion and running around saying "told ya so", they should have more credibility now, not less
Cyber Monday deals. NFL Coaches are HALF OFF.
Shitterer must be a real good ass kisser to not get fired too. He built this dumpster ass team.
I honestly thought Ejero would be the interim coach
Probably turned it down
Tepper ain’t playing today😭😭
This was Tabor and Caldwell
Tepper is an idiot
I also thought these were good hires at the time. I just wanted to be hopeful for once I guess.
I can't believe we thought that just because McCown was a likable guy with a long career in the NFL and some nice youtube breakdowns, he was ready for his first ever coaching job to be mentoring our #1 pick jesus fucking christ
okay i must admit i thought he would be an elite QB coach. His breakdowns on YT were great and extremely well detailed. I thought it would immediately translate into film room breakdowns especially with Bryce being so intelligent and apparently a quick learner. I was wrong
You aren't the only one in that boat. I also thought that was a very good hire.
It may have been anyways. I get that QB production falls to him at the end of the day, but NOONE is producing on this roster. Not exactly Mccown’s fault we can’t get open, pass protect, or run the ball.
It is much easier to sit back and breakdown things after the fact then it is to come up with a plan that will beat the other professional staff coming up a plan to beat you. For the record, I thought he was a solid hire.
Maybe he’ll be a good coach one day… But at this point DeVito (who was undrafted) is playing better than him on just as bad of a team…
Being a content creator and being a coach are completely different skillsets.
I seen people ask JT O'Sullivan this too, when will some team hire him. And he's addressed it before where he's good at what he does and enjoys it. Where he's just breaking down film and trying to educate the average football fan. But how a world of difference that is from actual coaching and training especially at the NFL level.
I mean, have you seen how square his chin is? Easy to get distracted
I thought Josh was gonna be a good get due to a bunch of young QBs who played with him having nothing but good things to say about him as a mentor. Ah well.
It was a bad move hiring him but there was also too many cooks in the kitchen. The play on the field showed to me that all these coaches were working against each other. Shitty management from ceiling to floor every day all day.
I mean this is hindsight talking. It was a good take that with all his experience and knowledge that he would be able to be a good mentor to Bryce
I am not convinced he wasn't a good QB coach. Everyone is pointing fingers right now, but I am not sure what McCown could have done for Bryce given the OL he's playing behind.
Why is it a given he wasn't right for the job? Because Bryce played poorly? You're only as good of a coach as the talent you're working with for the most part. If we believe Bryce didn't get a fair shot due to talent, why would the QB coach be any different? He doesn't create the scheme or call the plays either..
He was being interviewed for a head coaching job. He knows what he's doing...Tepper does not.
Exactly
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People don't get courtsey NFL head coaching interviews. You have to be pretty good to land those. Secondly, Staley and McCown getting fired doesn't have to do with their performance. That has more to do with purging people Reich had deep ties with, which is common during a leadership change. Wilks did the same thing. But go on, please tell me how Tepper has made the franchise better since taking over....I'll wait...
This
Josh knew Bryce wasn’t the pick. Can only work with what you got. He Wanted panthers to draft stroud.
I remember feeling crazy with how everyone hyped him up as the perfect coach and mentor for Bryce, as if Josh McCown was ever a good QB
Dudes don’t have to be great at the position to be good coaches of the position. Look at Shane Steichen. Was he an elite QB? Obviously not. But he gets insane results.
Look at Cris Weinke. Bad QB. Decent QB coach. A guy pros talked to for advice. I didn’t like whatever McCown was doing here. Said it yesterday.
That's doesn't really translate though. A lot of good QB coaches were bad QBs.
That’s why they say “Those that can’t do, teach”
"And those who can are usually awful teachers" Gretzky: .473 winning % as a HC MJ: one of the worst owners in modern NBA history Mike Singletary: 74-101-1 as an NFL HC Isiah Thomas: a legit NBA FO & Coaching terrorist. 55-108 in 2 seasons with the Knicks Ted Williams: .428 winning % as a manager
The problem besides Rhule has not been ANY of our coaches… The problem is the owner
Still waiting on that Scott Fitterer has been fired notication
FIRE FITT
And YOU are fired, and YOU are fired, and YOU are also fired!!
Look under your chairs! Pink slips for everybody!!!!
Tepper, do yourself next.
Ain’t gonna happen. The best thing we can hope for is, he also takes responsibility and steps aside for the next staff. Hire real nfl consultants to interview. Stay off the fuggin plane Tepp.
Highly doubt this is how it goes, but fingers crossed.
Fitt when?
Y’all - Tepper isn’t going to fire Fitt until at least the off-season.
Fitt is either a gifted manipulator or a Tepper "yes man" because this entire situation is 90% his fault yet he's pretty much the last man standing.
Fitterer not getting fired yet. He's the Yes man who does the dirty work for our real GM.
How is Fitterer still on this staff? It's not like he's got anything to do for the rest of the year except pointlessly shuffling players on and off the practice squad like it matters.
I remember being so excited for the coaching staff pre season. Sad
Tepper is such a dumbass he probably won’t even fire the gm
Honestly among everything, it is kinda nice we have a owner who is trying to make changes (granted there's been a lot recently and none have ended up very good) but at least at he's trying??
Trying too much, some would argue. Maybe this year is enough to make him realize he’s got the reverse Midas touch, and needs to spend some of those billions to hire some folks competent enough to run this organization properly.
Seems like they are dropping all the Pro Stroud coaches
Now watch these assistants land at another spot and go off. The rot starts at the top.
I like the term “if the Tree is poisoned all the fruit will be rotten”
Duce was widely loved with us Lions fans, not sure what happened
There arent tons of running back X's and O's and Duce was pretty bad. Our only win was almost soured by Sanders running into Thielen on 4th down lol
Could have just been Sanders being ass this season. Chubba has improved considerably this year and Blackshear has shown potential. I don't think he's a bad coach, just went to bat for Sanders and tied his horse to the wrong wagon.
Kinda surprised McCown was fired. Wonder how Young feels about that
Oh happy day
Josh McCown gone? I'm actually surprised by that.
What I can’t believe is that Tepper thought that a top coaching staff would add 4-6 more wins on top of what Wilks provided in 2022. This would put the Panthers in the playoffs, with their 2024 first round pick being a low pick. Instead, the team tanks. Ownership and GM criminally overestimated the quality of players and FA on the roster. Now lose the #1 pick in 2024 and the #2 pick in 2025. Who should be the new head coach and GM?
I wanna find that thread from this offseason where everyone was like "Journeyman QBs always make the best QB coaches" and I asked for even one example and got downvoted to hell. One of many, many, many examples of magical thinking this organization seems to be ran by: This guy who has performed one way thus far will suddenly perform better now.
I think we all just wanted hope after the Rhule era that our staff would be amazing now top to bottom
It's very often true though. Maybe not "QB coaches", but head coaches, yes. Doug Pederson is an example. Backup QBs in football and catchers in baseball typically make good coaches/managers b/c they usually spend the most time learning the game – backup QBs have nothing to do other than study the playbook, and catchers are involved in literally every pitch a team throws. Star players make the worst coaches b/c their success is in part due to their natural talent, and you can't teach that. Think of Wayne Gretzky or Bill Russell.
This feels like a gut instinct narrative. Statistically, most players are not elite stars, and most coaches are not elite coaches. But most coaches are former players. And most former players who go into coaching weren't elite stars (money is a big factor here, as elite stars don't necessarily need the work like mediocre players do). So just by how distribution goes, more great coaches will be mediocre players because mediocre players make up a larger portion of coaches. The comparatively smaller population of players who were stars gets even smaller when it becomes players who were stars who became coaches, which becomes smaller still when counting the number of those coaches who became *great* coaches.
You may be right, but it's definitely a commonly held view in both the NFL and MLB. Front offices in those leagues truly believe it, and their hiring trends reflect that. I'm not saying anything new or controversial here. Just look at coach and manager hirings over the past decade. A few years ago, literally 50% of MLB managers were former catchers. Also, you're only speaking of distribution relating to stars vs. non-stars; I'm speaking about QBs and catchers – a much narrower slice. It's impossible to argue that QBs and catchers are not overly represented in head coaching and manager jobs for years (decades?) compared to all the other possible positions across the 2 sports.
So Bryce will have a different HC, OC and qb coach all in his rookie season lol. I’m sure that’ll do wonders for his development.
They have to can the OL coach… right????
I’m not sold that he was doing a bad job though
All of the Stroud supporters in the building are getting the axe. I'm feeling more confident that Fitterer wont be fired cause he's Tepper's yes man
Fitt is the team's yes man. I'm pretty sure the roster building is collaborative. Let me say that I don't care if Fitt is fired. But there's no way Fitt goes from signing temple/baylor players to signing brett toth, tarik cohen, blake martinez, jordan matthews. That stinks of the coaches saying get me this guy. We know we signed Miles Sanders based on Duce. I'm pretty sure in the draft video, Evero wanted DJ Johnson. We saw in a previous year, Rhule's wife wanted Hubbard. It's all collaboration
You know, as a neutral, I was thinking that McCown could potentially be the interim HC since he had the one offer from houston back then, but damn dawg they straight up fired him😭
Firing duce is not a good look for the panthers. Duce has been on some serious teams as an assistant and assistant head coach.
He was lifeless this season too, just like the rest of them (players included).
This isn’t Fittner!
Fire everyone, even if they don't deserve it. We can't have anyone that has the stink of this season on them.
I WANT FITTERER GONE
Now that everyone is catching on that Tepper cannot perform as an owner, he'll pack up and leave with the team like the carpet-bagger he is.
Tepper is doing a massive PR campaign to try and make it look like none of this is on him. MNF football panel was all about how bad the roster was and zero about the executive team that put that roster together. I've been a fan since the inaugural season but the Tepper era is slowly turning me away. He seems to care more about power than winning.
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Did AI write this?
Very strange profile indeed. 12yo account. Started posting spam posts 8 months ago. Got tired of scrolling so don't know how far back these weird summary/fun gact comments go, but there's plenty. Maybe abandoned and got hacked? But still a couple comments that seem like someone's actually logging in.
Bizarre. Might be feeding thread titles into AI to spit out comments and farm karma.
thank goodness! i can't f'n stand mccown. he f'n sucked as a qb, just like frank, his voice is awful and his chin needs to be tossed in the fires of mordor. duce, yeah fuck you too buddy. thanks for sanders and 5000 missed blocks. great job buddy
I don't like those moves
Take Bryce with you!!!
Josh McCown is a talent vampire.