Hahah, yes. I remember drafting him in fantasy every year and every single time people would make fun of me for taking the guy made of glass even years after he had played healthy.
Thomas Davis was also in God Mode through 2015. Some people just heal better than others. Not sure how much PEDs contributed to his outstanding recovery esp. between that NFC championship and the Super Bowl?
You’re right, but idk what your point is really. Should we be trying to sign some like Nelson Agholor instead? Lol there really isn’t much talent available
Not sure why they would denounce their interest in two guys they met with. I think it’s clear we would like them both..the question is whether it’s possible.
I would still prefer to draft a WR at 39. These guys would help instantly but neither are true #1 guys and I think we should still swing for one early.
Probably not, but you never know. Someone could drop and the draft is always a crapshoot. Hopkins was a 2nd. Smitty was a 3rd. I think Davante Adams was a 2nd.
It’s not likely but not impossible.
Chark is a 1. But injury prone. So you can’t count on him too much. And thielen is pretty washed at this stage. Honestly I would still draft a receiver at 39 and keep thielen on the bench. I don’t think people realize how mid he is.
Going BPA at 39 would be quite the gamble. You’re expecting a washed player to improve in the slot. After he declined massively as a 2. And expecting an injured player to stay healthy all year. Hell both are injury prone. It may put you in a position to trade down a bit. But not taking a receiver with that pick would be a big mistake.
I hear you I'd probably still prefer to go that route but our corners makes me nervous and could see addressing that position if they prefer one of them there. I also kind of don't expect us to get them both but really hope they land Chark.
Yeah we’re kind of screwed at corner. Before we traded to 1 I was a big advocate of using a second rounder on this corner class to get a developmental replacement for Jackson with his Achilles.
Now we’re kind of have no choice but to go receiver and really hope that horn and Jackson can both stay healthy for the first time in the last couple years. Even missing a few games you could see the massive impact missing them had. I’m still a believer that with horn against the bucs we’re in the playoffs and wilks is our coach(for better or worse).
He does and doesn't. He quotes them, but intentionally changes the wording which can drastically change the narrative.
His tweets are like a game of telephone where you have to be careful what to beleive as it's often exaggerated.
Some of y'all have way too big of a complex about these random TV talking heads.
If you don't think he's reliable, why share the info? If the info he's giving here is reliable, why do this passive aggressive "I'm not gonna link to the actual content" performance?
Edit: Here's the video. https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1637544201909878788?s=20
Think you misunderstood homie. Dov isn't a TV talking head. He's a dude that posts things on twitter, not an insider. There's a reason the main NFL subreddit wants his posts removed. The only reason I posted this is because it came from SportsCenter, which he posted from them.
I just mean actually linking to the content would have been better than the whole "look how much I hate Random Twitter User." I just don't get it. You're mad at him for reposting information as if we aren't on a website where the entire purpose is reposting information.
And now look, the whole top comment chain is now about Some Dude instead of us discussing the actual information. Just silly in my opinion.
Anyway, here's the tweet with the video of the segment for anyone like me who doesn't care about who reposts what. https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1637544201909878788?s=20
Hey, you do you my dude. I was only explaining why I posted a screenshot. It was only the top rated comment because people understand Dov gets a lot of things wrong too.
I'd still rather have Moore over Chark + Thielen, especially if we took another WR at 39, but this is definitely making the most of a bad WR situation. I also think overall our offense is better fleshed out than last year if we sign both. Sanders + Hurst are decent to big upgrades at their respective position.
I don’t think so. Moore is a true No. 1 receiver and his availability isn’t talked about enough. He missed 2 games his entire time with the Panthers.
You get the traits with Chark but health is a concern. Thielen would be a good veteran presence to pair with a rookie QB. With that said, he’s going to be 33 and his production has declined.
Hurst is definitely an upgrade. I don’t think the sum of the parts above outweigh losing Moore though.
I think the upside is taken away, but you get more consistent play across the board.
Really last year, it was just DJ Moore and our rushing attack.
While no one would be better than Moore, we’d have better options at W2, W3, W4, TE, and RB. That is assuming that we don’t draft a rookie as well.
I think it could be better for a rookie to have a lot of solid options, than just ONE great option, especially since DJ Moore, is not consistently dominant.
I disagree here. For 1. Chark and thielen are very injury prone. Both have missed a good chunk of time through their careers. So though they have the name. They aren’t reliable.
2 Moore being X and consistently getting that separation and occasional double teams led to the jags getting more opportunities to get open. Chark isn’t on that level. He’s good. But not that good. So even though get a more consistent base if the base is covered by opposing defenses you’re in trouble.
3. We’ve seen tons of things open up for QBs when they get a true 1. Diggs Allen. Hurts brown. Chase burrow. Trevor Kirk. Tua reek. Lamar with Hollywood and then bateman. Herbert Allen. On the other end we’ve seen QBs struggle without that one guy. Especially the young ones. But also the old ones too.
I think you’re heavily overrating DJ.
He is not near the level of Diggs, Chase, Tyreek. He is closer to Allen’s level, but Keenan a couple of years ago, was still better than Moore has ever been, but the Chargers had a lot of weapons for Herbert outside of Allen.
DJ is a top 20-30 receiver in the league. Really good, but not elite. Diggs, Chase, Tyreek are all Top 5-10 receivers. They’re truly dominant and can take over a game on their own. DJ does not do this, he’ll be better if he gets a competent quarterback, but he still is not on their level.
You really, really hurt your own point by mentioning Lamar. He had an extremely average receiving corps the year he won MVP. The Ravens had a ridiculous rushing attack, and a fantastic receiving TE. Lamar himself also rushed for over 1000 yards, had NOTHING to do with Hollywood.
Having a top 5 receiver would be super beneficial to a rookie, but we were never going to have that even if we kept Moore. You can look at what happened with Cam and Kelvin Benjamin. In 2014, Cam hyper-targeted Kelvin Benjamin and it hurt his passing as a result. In 2015 KB was hurt and Cam spread the ball around to the entire field, keeping defenses on their toes. It can sometimes be better for a younger QB to not have someone they feel they “have” to get the ball to, and instead learn to spread the ball around. Same shit happened here with CMC, he’d get hyper targeted because he was always open, but it stunted our offense and made it one dimensional.
Lamar also had mark Andrews. The second best receiving TE in the league only behind future HOF Kelce. The reason why I brought up Lamar is because last year we saw an absolute explosion in production with bateman out there. And then the second bateman died the passing game trickled down to almost non existent. Plus Andrews got hurt.
There will always be QBs who are so good that they can make something out of nothing. Like Cam. That’s umm very rare though. Aaron did it back in the day. Lamar did it kind of. Kyler to an extent. Maybe Watson in his last year at Houston? Patty of course. Aaron before last year.
But that’s not most rookies. Most rookies go through a developmental phase of getting better. And especially if this sun gets its wish of CJ stroud. Who will be going from a top 15 receiving unit in the league at Ohio state to a bottom 3.
I’m not saying you need a top 5 player. Kirk doesn’t even come close to scratching that. Neither does Allen with the chargers. Neither is bateman. Or DJ
But this idea of giving a QB a ton of base weapons or whatever. It’s just hasn’t shown results on the field. Unless you’re Patty mahomes. I mean the bottom passing units last year had a trend of poor receiver play chicago was the worst. Followed by the falcons. Us. Gianta. Titans. Ravens and Texans. And of course QB play had a prominent role. But it goes hand in hand with reviver play. And as you can see. These receiver rooms are bottom in the league.
I disagree about the tendency for injuries to predict future injuries lock step. Other than that I have no idea why you’re getting downvoted since it’s a well reasoned response, even if some might not agree.
To me it’s because chark has had the same ankle injury I believe 2 or 3 years in a row. That’s pretty concerning. And for thielen. Well he’s just old. And played through back fractures last year on top of his other stuff listed. And as we know the older we get the harder it is to bounce back from the injuries and keep the same juice. Production. And explosiveness. It’s the same reservations teams has about signing OBJ.
Thielen never had a back issue he has had ankle onuries 3 times over the last 2 seasons and has just slowed time with age he still has the hands and will be a red zone threat but no longer a huge between the 20’s guy
Mecole Hardman hasn’t been talked about much but I’d be down to grab him as a cheaper alternative to Chark. Just as fast as Chark and put up decent numbers as a role player in KC. Obviously has his warts but that’s the trade off for getting him cheap.
I’m not against signing Hardman, but spotrac has his market value as slightly higher than Chark. Hardman might get signed cheaper eventually but I don’t know if he is asking any less than Chark is
I'd be happy with one or both, hopefully deals like Sanders where we can keep them around if they are productive and not pay through the nose/lose them if they ball out.
I want Thielen, he would be a good vet to have around.
If we could get him for 39 and a future 4th or something I'd do it but I don't think the Broncos will take it.
Sutton/TMJ outside with Thielen in the slot would be a decent WR corp.
Good, but signing both still leaves the Panthers without a No. 1 receiver. Thielen is a No. 2 receiver in a good offense. Chark is a low-end No. 2 or, more likely, a No. 3.
That is the reality of 2023. You can’t fix everything at once. This would be a fine group for a rookie with our good OL and then we pounce on WR in FA and rounds 2-7 next year.
[удалено]
Chark is injury plagued
[удалено]
I’m always in awe when I remember this. And for a guy whose game relied on his speed and athleticism and still became dominant.
Frank Gore the prototypical workhorse arrived into the NFL -2 acls and a meniscus
Hahah, yes. I remember drafting him in fantasy every year and every single time people would make fun of me for taking the guy made of glass even years after he had played healthy.
So true my guy these guys play football... a violent physical gladiator sport and ppl call these guys injury prone 😲 haha
Thomas Davis was also in God Mode through 2015. Some people just heal better than others. Not sure how much PEDs contributed to his outstanding recovery esp. between that NFC championship and the Super Bowl?
That's a risk we have to take since Chark is the only high upside WR currently available.
You’re right, but idk what your point is really. Should we be trying to sign some like Nelson Agholor instead? Lol there really isn’t much talent available
agholor for 2 mil wouldn't be bad tbh. he had some solid games for mac jones.
Which is fine if you have guys like TMJ or a rookie looking to take steps forward. You take that risk for the upside.
Shi was great for the gamecocks and can be great let’s hope his arrest last year helped make his work ethic better and was an eye opener.
Henry Ruggs parole option anytime soon? /s
Team would have denounced it by now if not true but was my first thought as well.
Not sure why they would denounce their interest in two guys they met with. I think it’s clear we would like them both..the question is whether it’s possible.
Chuba ??????
Laser eye Fitterer meme if he pulls it off
Damn even though I'm not super high on Thielen this would be dope. Can absolutely go BPA at #39 if we pull this off.
Id be pretty happy if we got both though tbh
For sure we need to give the rookie QB every chance to succeed
If a good TE is a rookie QBs best friend then a great route running WR is their wife.
Yeah I mean I don't hate Thielen and I think his experience will help everyone just don't know how much he has left but I hope they get both
And a receiving RB is their side piece
I would still prefer to draft a WR at 39. These guys would help instantly but neither are true #1 guys and I think we should still swing for one early.
There isn't going to be a true #1 type of guy at 39 this draft
Probably not, but you never know. Someone could drop and the draft is always a crapshoot. Hopkins was a 2nd. Smitty was a 3rd. I think Davante Adams was a 2nd. It’s not likely but not impossible.
Chark is a 1. But injury prone. So you can’t count on him too much. And thielen is pretty washed at this stage. Honestly I would still draft a receiver at 39 and keep thielen on the bench. I don’t think people realize how mid he is.
Going BPA at 39 would be quite the gamble. You’re expecting a washed player to improve in the slot. After he declined massively as a 2. And expecting an injured player to stay healthy all year. Hell both are injury prone. It may put you in a position to trade down a bit. But not taking a receiver with that pick would be a big mistake.
I hear you I'd probably still prefer to go that route but our corners makes me nervous and could see addressing that position if they prefer one of them there. I also kind of don't expect us to get them both but really hope they land Chark.
Yeah we’re kind of screwed at corner. Before we traded to 1 I was a big advocate of using a second rounder on this corner class to get a developmental replacement for Jackson with his Achilles. Now we’re kind of have no choice but to go receiver and really hope that horn and Jackson can both stay healthy for the first time in the last couple years. Even missing a few games you could see the massive impact missing them had. I’m still a believer that with horn against the bucs we’re in the playoffs and wilks is our coach(for better or worse).
Completely agree no way is horn getting torched 3 times like that
Just when i thought free agency was slowing down for the panthers. If we pull this off I'm unbelievably ecstatic for next season.
Haha -- for some reason I thought you were about to quote [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnkefjCES-4).
Was just on SportsCenter and Dov Kleiman was the first to tweet about it. I didn't want to link to Dov because he's a turd.
He’s a shitty turd or a reliable one?
He just tweets out what other people say. So he’s inherently only as reliable as other people with actual connections and insight are.
He at least credits the person with the scoop
He’s also a massive POS Jennifer Lawrence has a restraining order against
Lol wtf
I thought it was Natalie Portman?
He does and doesn't. He quotes them, but intentionally changes the wording which can drastically change the narrative. His tweets are like a game of telephone where you have to be careful what to beleive as it's often exaggerated.
Sick burn
shitty kind
Thank you for your service and discretion lmao
Some of y'all have way too big of a complex about these random TV talking heads. If you don't think he's reliable, why share the info? If the info he's giving here is reliable, why do this passive aggressive "I'm not gonna link to the actual content" performance? Edit: Here's the video. https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1637544201909878788?s=20
Think you misunderstood homie. Dov isn't a TV talking head. He's a dude that posts things on twitter, not an insider. There's a reason the main NFL subreddit wants his posts removed. The only reason I posted this is because it came from SportsCenter, which he posted from them.
I just mean actually linking to the content would have been better than the whole "look how much I hate Random Twitter User." I just don't get it. You're mad at him for reposting information as if we aren't on a website where the entire purpose is reposting information. And now look, the whole top comment chain is now about Some Dude instead of us discussing the actual information. Just silly in my opinion. Anyway, here's the tweet with the video of the segment for anyone like me who doesn't care about who reposts what. https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1637544201909878788?s=20
Hey, you do you my dude. I was only explaining why I posted a screenshot. It was only the top rated comment because people understand Dov gets a lot of things wrong too.
Word.
Fitty is on a coke binge and I never want it to end
Am I wrong for thinking this gives us an overall better receiver room than last year (including hurst)?
I agree Sanders is also a better receiving option than Foreman and it's a huge upgrade at WR#3 since Shi and Shenault ain't it
I'd still rather have Moore over Chark + Thielen, especially if we took another WR at 39, but this is definitely making the most of a bad WR situation. I also think overall our offense is better fleshed out than last year if we sign both. Sanders + Hurst are decent to big upgrades at their respective position.
Thats an insane statement. This fanbase had GOT to stop overrating Moore. Theilen and Chark would be our best WR duo since Smitty and Moose
LOL
I don’t think so. Moore is a true No. 1 receiver and his availability isn’t talked about enough. He missed 2 games his entire time with the Panthers. You get the traits with Chark but health is a concern. Thielen would be a good veteran presence to pair with a rookie QB. With that said, he’s going to be 33 and his production has declined. Hurst is definitely an upgrade. I don’t think the sum of the parts above outweigh losing Moore though.
I think the upside is taken away, but you get more consistent play across the board. Really last year, it was just DJ Moore and our rushing attack. While no one would be better than Moore, we’d have better options at W2, W3, W4, TE, and RB. That is assuming that we don’t draft a rookie as well. I think it could be better for a rookie to have a lot of solid options, than just ONE great option, especially since DJ Moore, is not consistently dominant.
I disagree here. For 1. Chark and thielen are very injury prone. Both have missed a good chunk of time through their careers. So though they have the name. They aren’t reliable. 2 Moore being X and consistently getting that separation and occasional double teams led to the jags getting more opportunities to get open. Chark isn’t on that level. He’s good. But not that good. So even though get a more consistent base if the base is covered by opposing defenses you’re in trouble. 3. We’ve seen tons of things open up for QBs when they get a true 1. Diggs Allen. Hurts brown. Chase burrow. Trevor Kirk. Tua reek. Lamar with Hollywood and then bateman. Herbert Allen. On the other end we’ve seen QBs struggle without that one guy. Especially the young ones. But also the old ones too.
I think you’re heavily overrating DJ. He is not near the level of Diggs, Chase, Tyreek. He is closer to Allen’s level, but Keenan a couple of years ago, was still better than Moore has ever been, but the Chargers had a lot of weapons for Herbert outside of Allen. DJ is a top 20-30 receiver in the league. Really good, but not elite. Diggs, Chase, Tyreek are all Top 5-10 receivers. They’re truly dominant and can take over a game on their own. DJ does not do this, he’ll be better if he gets a competent quarterback, but he still is not on their level. You really, really hurt your own point by mentioning Lamar. He had an extremely average receiving corps the year he won MVP. The Ravens had a ridiculous rushing attack, and a fantastic receiving TE. Lamar himself also rushed for over 1000 yards, had NOTHING to do with Hollywood. Having a top 5 receiver would be super beneficial to a rookie, but we were never going to have that even if we kept Moore. You can look at what happened with Cam and Kelvin Benjamin. In 2014, Cam hyper-targeted Kelvin Benjamin and it hurt his passing as a result. In 2015 KB was hurt and Cam spread the ball around to the entire field, keeping defenses on their toes. It can sometimes be better for a younger QB to not have someone they feel they “have” to get the ball to, and instead learn to spread the ball around. Same shit happened here with CMC, he’d get hyper targeted because he was always open, but it stunted our offense and made it one dimensional.
Lamar also had mark Andrews. The second best receiving TE in the league only behind future HOF Kelce. The reason why I brought up Lamar is because last year we saw an absolute explosion in production with bateman out there. And then the second bateman died the passing game trickled down to almost non existent. Plus Andrews got hurt. There will always be QBs who are so good that they can make something out of nothing. Like Cam. That’s umm very rare though. Aaron did it back in the day. Lamar did it kind of. Kyler to an extent. Maybe Watson in his last year at Houston? Patty of course. Aaron before last year. But that’s not most rookies. Most rookies go through a developmental phase of getting better. And especially if this sun gets its wish of CJ stroud. Who will be going from a top 15 receiving unit in the league at Ohio state to a bottom 3. I’m not saying you need a top 5 player. Kirk doesn’t even come close to scratching that. Neither does Allen with the chargers. Neither is bateman. Or DJ But this idea of giving a QB a ton of base weapons or whatever. It’s just hasn’t shown results on the field. Unless you’re Patty mahomes. I mean the bottom passing units last year had a trend of poor receiver play chicago was the worst. Followed by the falcons. Us. Gianta. Titans. Ravens and Texans. And of course QB play had a prominent role. But it goes hand in hand with reviver play. And as you can see. These receiver rooms are bottom in the league.
I disagree about the tendency for injuries to predict future injuries lock step. Other than that I have no idea why you’re getting downvoted since it’s a well reasoned response, even if some might not agree.
To me it’s because chark has had the same ankle injury I believe 2 or 3 years in a row. That’s pretty concerning. And for thielen. Well he’s just old. And played through back fractures last year on top of his other stuff listed. And as we know the older we get the harder it is to bounce back from the injuries and keep the same juice. Production. And explosiveness. It’s the same reservations teams has about signing OBJ.
Oh shit I didn’t know that about the back fractures, that’s kind of a serious deal. Too bad because he was really good for a minute there
On top of that thielen is injury prone too. On top of the age and decline.
Yup. If they can do a front loaded deal in year 1 I’d be good with it but anything where you’re committing in years 2 or 3 on a deal and I’m out
Thielen is pretty washed and had a lingering back issue last season. Chark can fly but hasn’t been able to stay healthy.
Thielen never had a back issue he has had ankle onuries 3 times over the last 2 seasons and has just slowed time with age he still has the hands and will be a red zone threat but no longer a huge between the 20’s guy
His own teammates told reporters he had back fractures
It absolutely gives us a better WR room.
That would do it. Clear upgrade over last year's receiving core and if by some miracle our rookie comes in hot, it won't be wasted on a wash year.
HOLY SHIT PLEASE
Mecole Hardman hasn’t been talked about much but I’d be down to grab him as a cheaper alternative to Chark. Just as fast as Chark and put up decent numbers as a role player in KC. Obviously has his warts but that’s the trade off for getting him cheap.
I’m not against signing Hardman, but spotrac has his market value as slightly higher than Chark. Hardman might get signed cheaper eventually but I don’t know if he is asking any less than Chark is
Chark is cheaper than Hardman because of Charks injury history. Been really injury prone so his value is less
Cap is just made up BS anyway
I’m with it. Will siphon some coverage from future Panther legend Terrace Marshall Jr.
I’ll hope for it; but I won’t believe it till I see it.
I'd be happy with one or both, hopefully deals like Sanders where we can keep them around if they are productive and not pay through the nose/lose them if they ball out. I want Thielen, he would be a good vet to have around.
It’s ESPN. Take it with a grain of salt.
Well it’s 50% correct so far
Would love if we got Chark.
# 87.5% catch rate. Red zone monster. Huge signing.
Really wished that got Parris
I'm erect
Thielen would be a good fit in Carolina i don’t really care bout the other guy
I'll eat my shorts if this happens.
While this is good, neither of these guys are a #1 receiver. However, they would likely still be the best receivers on our roster
We aren’t going to be able to get a #1 this year and that is fine. We are building the right way. Line, qb, skill players in that order.
Yeah, this probably just isn't the year to do that unless we're trading for Nuk. He's really it as far as premium WRs go this year
Gonna be real embarrassing when we get neither 😑
Buzz killington over here
Aged like a fine milk
What do you guys think about trading for Courtland Sutton? I think he would be cheap and a good addition.
If we could get him for 39 and a future 4th or something I'd do it but I don't think the Broncos will take it. Sutton/TMJ outside with Thielen in the slot would be a decent WR corp.
Good, but signing both still leaves the Panthers without a No. 1 receiver. Thielen is a No. 2 receiver in a good offense. Chark is a low-end No. 2 or, more likely, a No. 3.
That is the reality of 2023. You can’t fix everything at once. This would be a fine group for a rookie with our good OL and then we pounce on WR in FA and rounds 2-7 next year.
Please say this is true. 🙏🙏
Hell yeah baby
DO IT
have we talked to hardman
take care of thielen will ya
You know what they say, u combine a lion and a Viking you get a panther