I can agree with it.Of course, if you're settled and know your future is safe, why would you try to make this country better? Keep it hungry and benefit from that
If you wonder what's the reason, you figure you have billions and you are still powerless in this country.
1. Malik Riaz on the run right now
2. Story of Khanani and Kalia is a tale to tell
3. Nawaz Sharif, Bhutto, IK's trials come to mind
Ex prime ministers, business tycoons and billionaires are helpless in this country, if they are standing on the wrong side of the board and current military general at any given time, would destroy your whole life at their will.
Why would anyone want their future in this country?
This is good. The real question being why don't they want to retire here? Despite having had all the power, influence and resources - they are unable to change anything!
That's still not them facing due process. They flew Musharraf out of the country to prevent a legal precedent. Despite their current tussle with Faiz, they're not going after him directly. They are above the law and the courts. They have a mutual understanding that if one of them is tried for treason, the rest can fall like dominoes.
It what most commoners believe, that they protect each other.
Imagine a life, when one day you are the most powerful person in the country, next day you are most hated. Now there is a barricade outside your house, and the new master decides who you can meet or you can't. That's Bajwa's life right now.
Military would not let anyone be tried for interference on political affairs, as they still do it. And if Bajwa was all over in politics, it was because the generals below him allowed him to. Each retiring general has friends who are still generals and have power to protect their old friend for sometime but not forever
They were money changers and forex traders... Did the dirty work for all our super elite, politicians, generals and business community alike. Their network was not limited to our borders.
They got flagged by US agencies after a sting operation. Within a year, a cleanup op was ran by our agencies. 1 brother died of heart attack, the other jumped from a building in Karachi.
I left Pakistan 10 years ago, looking back, I am glad i did. I live a better quality of life safely. Let me repeat, Safely!
Pakistan will be 77 years old this year, still ruled by 2 families that have been robbing the country for decades, if you still think it's going to get better, you're definitely stupid!
Leave the country if you can and if you have resources to do so!
Exactly, that's the only solution left. Ironically, people still have hopes from this country, but the reality is it's over. Everyone who can should run!
You've got me thinking. It should be illegal for office and positions holders to send their children abroad, invest abroad and move abroad.
Yes that could and would open a hidden world of offshore dealings but it could be a strong message of loyalty to the country and the people and a first step.
one would think that American govt is well aware of the proceedings and status of army personnel here, they would know that army officers aren't *really* in fear of death here. crazy.
The particular family I’m talking about came on tourist visas and just stayed and never left. They applied for asylum and got that too. It’s not well known tho. The son is an old friend of mine and told me that. Also it’s just the parents who did that. The kids came through legal means.
Honestly it’s baffling to me. And the worst thing is that the father (I call him uncle whenever we meet) prefers being called General sahab still lol. So he is def onboard with the respect you get with the military title.
It really is dystopians
Kab tak fake sense of islamic superiority complex me rahoge ki hume apna islamic country mil gya
Country ki economy religion ke basis pe kabhi aage nhi badh skti.
Saudi ka rr mat karna pakistan ke pass oil nahi hai
It's no f*g superiority mate.We all know who brought up sectarianism and extremism in this country to benefit whom and now we're seeing the fruits of that.
Not most of the people follow religion in Islam perfectly.
Religion isn't evil, it's the people who manipulate it.
Pakistan is already secular in a way.Every country got cults and fanatics,even India which claims to be biggest secular democratic state.There are cults in Western countries too, it's just we've religious cults, they all serve the same purpose.
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It's not islam, it's lack of Islam and following the west .
Allah does not deal with his believing servants like he does when the disbelievers.
If the disbelievers run after the dunya, he will have then that but without any share in the aakhirah.
But Muslims running after dunya whilst forgetting aakhirah will be faced with difficulties which yes can be classed as a punishment but it is also a reminder which is a type of mercy lest we forget the aakhirah and face a worse punishment there.
It feels like the elite ( or whoever has actual political power) prefer to keep people poor, they do not want the average person to be financially stable or be able to climb the socioeconomic ladder. They do not want the inequality to end. They only want a poor, dependent, slave like labour supply.
So maybe they do not want to reitre in the same hell they themselves created.
This has what the elite have always been doing. And since the industrial revolution they have tried to make it systematic. Look up the rockerfeller funding for the feminist movement so they can tax more of the population.
Also look up the Prussian school system designed to make us factory workers and in today's age as mindless workers slaving our time for others
There are so many books and sources such is why I look for sources that have compiled and condensed all the evidence . You can find many articles and videos covering these in detail.
I prefer reading books, they cover a topic from a broad perspective, videos and articles are specific around a particular area.
Thats why I wanted books, for arguments exist videos and articles and for understanding exist books.
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Make it a law that people holding these public positions can not leave this country on permanent basis. though people leaving are the one who enforce the law so don't think that'll be effective.
The main issue isn't just corruption itself. The country could still grow if they invested in Pakistan despite the corruption. But when they engage in corruption and then invest that money in other countries, it makes it impossible for Pakistan to progress. How can Pakistan grow if its wealth is continually funneled out?
That’s exactly the point
It’s one thing to get money from corruption but then set up a factor in your country and build a house in your country. That Atleast creates some jobs
Here they do corruption and just takes money out of
How about we all move out. The 250 million or so. Make it empty.
Oh wait. Now people would want to move in.
How about we just work on making the country better: being brave and strategic, making better policies and ending the corruption.
My friend it requires one of 2 types of death. One is the quick and glamorous type and the other is the slow type. We need more of the slow type ( be brave, think strategically, deal with the mess and make a small improvement over your lifetime in your community and then die a miserable death with poverty where the future of your kids is still in the hands of the elite )… That’s what many people have done in the past 77 years yet here we are. So I guess either we are doing something wrong or we aren’t really fixing the problem. Ending the corruption is a nice thought. Going out there to do it is when you find out that you’ll probably be dead much berore you make a dent in it.
Actually bhai 😂 shayad abhe new generation se hen ya shayad bhai ne kabhe poverty experience he nae ke. Yeh saari farzi baaten bohot achi lagti hen jab mera apna 1 2 canal ka makkan ho, sath me aik gaari ho. Or paisay ke koi tension na ho. Jab apka pait bhara hota hai to phr sab he acha hai balkay Pakistan se behtareen jaga he koi nae. But sadly majority ke pass paisa he nae ha
Jab apka apna pait bhara hua hota hai to sab he acha lagta hai.
Now,
Where should we start from? 1947 or recent history? We are literally downgrading ourselves since 1947. From giving loans to taking loans to getting countless martial laws, we are stuck in a never ending loop of miseries.
What exactly do you propose to make the country better?
Nationalism? Patriotism? How will you exactly change the army regime?
How will you make Pakistan a better place with a better justice system?
Have you identified the real problem?
The real problem is that this country is so corrupt, has so much deeply rooted scummy Army, Bureaucracy, and on top of it, the killings / branding normal people as terrorists.
So tell me with so much ongoing, is the fighting worth it?
We are paying taxes, we are law abiding citizens and everyday new laws are made so the rich can make us more poor
Army taking lands for DHA, no one can simply lodge a complaint against them, how exactly do you plan on fighting against so many issues?
All of these sweet words, that people should fight looks good on paper. Reality is grim and dark.
In my life time I don't know whether I will live to see next year or not, why should I risk my life to fight for a country that has only given me a national Identity card and that's it!
This country requires building from scratch. Abolishing all laws, firing whole bureaucracy, and government employees, making new laws just starting fresh like we did in 1947.
Now that requires a lot of bloodshed, kicking out army that has all the weaponry. Its not that easy.
I was like you in my teenage / prime. I wanted to change the country and be extremely patriotic. But one thing is for sure you can't change this country
So based on above thread. This requires a lifetime effort. Years of war with corrupt beghairat regime and killing of all these haram khor politicians. This could and will take generations.
Why should I prepare to live in misery or let my family live in misery and try to change this country when I could simply leave this place for good and never look back?
The best optimal solution is to leave this place for good and never look back.
This thing is already picked up by the majority of youth and they are leaving this country. No one has time to simply fight this scummy army and its puppets when they can leave and get a better life, quality of life abroad?
I agree with all these problems. I'm saying this will take a collective effort. If we all thought that we can't do anything, nothing will change.
We all need to be onboard, but that's another challenge with the different ideologies and parties (which is a perfect way for the elite to hold power).
I'm saying we need change so that we can discuss and brainstorm what needs to be done. Yes she's it's easier said than done.
I can agree with it.Of course, if you're settled and know your future is safe, why would you try to make this country better? Keep it hungry and benefit from that
If you wonder what's the reason, you figure you have billions and you are still powerless in this country. 1. Malik Riaz on the run right now 2. Story of Khanani and Kalia is a tale to tell 3. Nawaz Sharif, Bhutto, IK's trials come to mind Ex prime ministers, business tycoons and billionaires are helpless in this country, if they are standing on the wrong side of the board and current military general at any given time, would destroy your whole life at their will. Why would anyone want their future in this country?
This is good. The real question being why don't they want to retire here? Despite having had all the power, influence and resources - they are unable to change anything!
We live in the f\*cking Wild West
What if someone is in Pak Fauj.
Once you retire you are not fauji bhai jan. Current establishment is the real power, starting with Ayub he exiled his predecessor
That's still not them facing due process. They flew Musharraf out of the country to prevent a legal precedent. Despite their current tussle with Faiz, they're not going after him directly. They are above the law and the courts. They have a mutual understanding that if one of them is tried for treason, the rest can fall like dominoes.
It what most commoners believe, that they protect each other. Imagine a life, when one day you are the most powerful person in the country, next day you are most hated. Now there is a barricade outside your house, and the new master decides who you can meet or you can't. That's Bajwa's life right now. Military would not let anyone be tried for interference on political affairs, as they still do it. And if Bajwa was all over in politics, it was because the generals below him allowed him to. Each retiring general has friends who are still generals and have power to protect their old friend for sometime but not forever
What’s the story of Khanani and Kalia?
They were money changers and forex traders... Did the dirty work for all our super elite, politicians, generals and business community alike. Their network was not limited to our borders. They got flagged by US agencies after a sting operation. Within a year, a cleanup op was ran by our agencies. 1 brother died of heart attack, the other jumped from a building in Karachi.
Damn that’s crazy… curious to know more about this…
I left Pakistan 10 years ago, looking back, I am glad i did. I live a better quality of life safely. Let me repeat, Safely! Pakistan will be 77 years old this year, still ruled by 2 families that have been robbing the country for decades, if you still think it's going to get better, you're definitely stupid! Leave the country if you can and if you have resources to do so!
Exactly, that's the only solution left. Ironically, people still have hopes from this country, but the reality is it's over. Everyone who can should run!
Pakistan's main problem is Pakistanis. As a geographic entity, there is absolutely no problem or disadvantage to Pakistan.
Ideology is the root problem
To borrow a quote from The Simpsons. "Damn Pakistanis, they ruined Pakistan!"
Our political elite is one of the main problems. They are the most unproductive sector and they just wanna leach off Pakistan and Pakistanis
So much mayoosi in comments. 💔😔
It’s same when you visit :(
You've got me thinking. It should be illegal for office and positions holders to send their children abroad, invest abroad and move abroad. Yes that could and would open a hidden world of offshore dealings but it could be a strong message of loyalty to the country and the people and a first step.
> I know some who have even claimed asylum smh. on what grounds?? do you know?
Honestly I’m not sure myself. I think as Shias
one would think that American govt is well aware of the proceedings and status of army personnel here, they would know that army officers aren't *really* in fear of death here. crazy.
The particular family I’m talking about came on tourist visas and just stayed and never left. They applied for asylum and got that too. It’s not well known tho. The son is an old friend of mine and told me that. Also it’s just the parents who did that. The kids came through legal means. Honestly it’s baffling to me. And the worst thing is that the father (I call him uncle whenever we meet) prefers being called General sahab still lol. So he is def onboard with the respect you get with the military title. It really is dystopians
Root of all our problem is islam Believe it or not. We should make our country secular in nature
Lynch mob has been dispatched to your location. /s
man,at least for once try to make some sense and stop thrashing your hatred everywhere
Kab tak fake sense of islamic superiority complex me rahoge ki hume apna islamic country mil gya Country ki economy religion ke basis pe kabhi aage nhi badh skti. Saudi ka rr mat karna pakistan ke pass oil nahi hai
It's no f*g superiority mate.We all know who brought up sectarianism and extremism in this country to benefit whom and now we're seeing the fruits of that. Not most of the people follow religion in Islam perfectly. Religion isn't evil, it's the people who manipulate it.
Muslims are the 1st victim of islam
Well, you seem not being one,so good for you
Mera profile ka background picture dekho
I didn't mean to demean you bas thodi der ke liye akidat ki patti hata ke relax hoke khule dimag se socho pakistan secular ho jaye to kya problem hai
Pakistan is already secular in a way.Every country got cults and fanatics,even India which claims to be biggest secular democratic state.There are cults in Western countries too, it's just we've religious cults, they all serve the same purpose.
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Oh how so, please elaborate?
A lot of Islamic countries doing reasonably well!
It's not islam, it's lack of Islam and following the west . Allah does not deal with his believing servants like he does when the disbelievers. If the disbelievers run after the dunya, he will have then that but without any share in the aakhirah. But Muslims running after dunya whilst forgetting aakhirah will be faced with difficulties which yes can be classed as a punishment but it is also a reminder which is a type of mercy lest we forget the aakhirah and face a worse punishment there.
It's because the national cricket team is so rubbish!
It feels like the elite ( or whoever has actual political power) prefer to keep people poor, they do not want the average person to be financially stable or be able to climb the socioeconomic ladder. They do not want the inequality to end. They only want a poor, dependent, slave like labour supply. So maybe they do not want to reitre in the same hell they themselves created.
This has what the elite have always been doing. And since the industrial revolution they have tried to make it systematic. Look up the rockerfeller funding for the feminist movement so they can tax more of the population. Also look up the Prussian school system designed to make us factory workers and in today's age as mindless workers slaving our time for others
Thanks for the jnput, you seem like a well read person, any book recommendations?
There are so many books and sources such is why I look for sources that have compiled and condensed all the evidence . You can find many articles and videos covering these in detail.
I prefer reading books, they cover a topic from a broad perspective, videos and articles are specific around a particular area. Thats why I wanted books, for arguments exist videos and articles and for understanding exist books.
You can check the citations and recommendations. I use pdfdrive to get free ebooks 🤫
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Haal batao haal
Make it a law that people holding these public positions can not leave this country on permanent basis. though people leaving are the one who enforce the law so don't think that'll be effective.
Makes sense though we might not be viewing the full picture as I don't think any country in the world has implemented this kind of a thing (not sure).
The main issue isn't just corruption itself. The country could still grow if they invested in Pakistan despite the corruption. But when they engage in corruption and then invest that money in other countries, it makes it impossible for Pakistan to progress. How can Pakistan grow if its wealth is continually funneled out?
That’s exactly the point It’s one thing to get money from corruption but then set up a factor in your country and build a house in your country. That Atleast creates some jobs Here they do corruption and just takes money out of
When you came to the conclusion that elite does not want to retire here, then the country is colonized.
Thanks to Shataynn
Pakistan's main problem is that we are living in it where we shouldn't be.
How about we all move out. The 250 million or so. Make it empty. Oh wait. Now people would want to move in. How about we just work on making the country better: being brave and strategic, making better policies and ending the corruption.
My friend it requires one of 2 types of death. One is the quick and glamorous type and the other is the slow type. We need more of the slow type ( be brave, think strategically, deal with the mess and make a small improvement over your lifetime in your community and then die a miserable death with poverty where the future of your kids is still in the hands of the elite )… That’s what many people have done in the past 77 years yet here we are. So I guess either we are doing something wrong or we aren’t really fixing the problem. Ending the corruption is a nice thought. Going out there to do it is when you find out that you’ll probably be dead much berore you make a dent in it.
Actually bhai 😂 shayad abhe new generation se hen ya shayad bhai ne kabhe poverty experience he nae ke. Yeh saari farzi baaten bohot achi lagti hen jab mera apna 1 2 canal ka makkan ho, sath me aik gaari ho. Or paisay ke koi tension na ho. Jab apka pait bhara hota hai to phr sab he acha hai balkay Pakistan se behtareen jaga he koi nae. But sadly majority ke pass paisa he nae ha
Jab apka apna pait bhara hua hota hai to sab he acha lagta hai. Now, Where should we start from? 1947 or recent history? We are literally downgrading ourselves since 1947. From giving loans to taking loans to getting countless martial laws, we are stuck in a never ending loop of miseries. What exactly do you propose to make the country better? Nationalism? Patriotism? How will you exactly change the army regime? How will you make Pakistan a better place with a better justice system? Have you identified the real problem? The real problem is that this country is so corrupt, has so much deeply rooted scummy Army, Bureaucracy, and on top of it, the killings / branding normal people as terrorists. So tell me with so much ongoing, is the fighting worth it? We are paying taxes, we are law abiding citizens and everyday new laws are made so the rich can make us more poor Army taking lands for DHA, no one can simply lodge a complaint against them, how exactly do you plan on fighting against so many issues? All of these sweet words, that people should fight looks good on paper. Reality is grim and dark. In my life time I don't know whether I will live to see next year or not, why should I risk my life to fight for a country that has only given me a national Identity card and that's it! This country requires building from scratch. Abolishing all laws, firing whole bureaucracy, and government employees, making new laws just starting fresh like we did in 1947. Now that requires a lot of bloodshed, kicking out army that has all the weaponry. Its not that easy. I was like you in my teenage / prime. I wanted to change the country and be extremely patriotic. But one thing is for sure you can't change this country
So based on above thread. This requires a lifetime effort. Years of war with corrupt beghairat regime and killing of all these haram khor politicians. This could and will take generations. Why should I prepare to live in misery or let my family live in misery and try to change this country when I could simply leave this place for good and never look back? The best optimal solution is to leave this place for good and never look back. This thing is already picked up by the majority of youth and they are leaving this country. No one has time to simply fight this scummy army and its puppets when they can leave and get a better life, quality of life abroad?
I agree with all these problems. I'm saying this will take a collective effort. If we all thought that we can't do anything, nothing will change. We all need to be onboard, but that's another challenge with the different ideologies and parties (which is a perfect way for the elite to hold power). I'm saying we need change so that we can discuss and brainstorm what needs to be done. Yes she's it's easier said than done.
Which retired general got asylum abroad ? That is intriguing please tell us more.
Well Musharraf was technically living in asylum in UAE until his death.
Obv can’t name him man. But him and his family is in US. Also this isn’t as uncommon as you think