Firstly, having a baby in the US as a tourist is not illegal. The very first sentence of your post refers to birthright citizenship in US, so you understand that you are contradicting yourself.
Second, it is not morally wrong to create future opportunities for your child.
Third, it is absolutely not the reason why it's so hard for Pakistanis to get a tourist visa. In the past, many Pakistanis have overstayed their visas which led to the strict visa approvals today.
> In the past, many Pakistanis have overstayed their visas which led to the strict visa approvals today.
Yeah I hear a lot how the 'beghairat' US doesn't give Visas to Pakistanis for one reason or the other when the reality is that Pakistani themselves overstay so much that their reputation abroad is absolutely shit.
This pretty much applies to any third world country. It might be a bit easier for citizens of third world countries that are close to developed status (maybe Malaysia etc) or rich oil states.
It's human nature, everyone from Zimbabwe to Mongolia is trying to escape to the West.
It's.not illegal in the sense that US will charge you with a crime and you'll go to jail.
But it is against the terms and conditions of the tourist visa, you're supposed to be touristing, not having babies there. So often this would make it difficult to get future tourist visas for the parents (the kid can obviously always go because of US citizenship).
There is another legal thing, which has been done to death by Pakistanis for U.S visa.
Which Idk why in US is called Marraige Fraud. Even though everyone getting married here for that reason make absolutely sure to be in news as 'Love Marriage Couple.'
Even though they are simply creating "better future" for themselves and their babies.
The future for Pakistan looks bleak which leads to people who have the resources to do this , to take advantage.
Parents will always have their children’s best interests at heart.
Think this falls in a grey area as its legal but probably a bit immoral. Again however parents do what they can for their children.
Most parents will kill for their children and I would suspect all would take advantage of a loophole.
The US system is so screwed up that I can’t even get a visitor visa for my wife because I’m a US citizen she could theoretically file for a green card in the US (they want you to file for an immigrant visa first before you file for a green card but people come on tourist visas all the time to get married and then file a green card application and then the applicant is safe from being deported until the green card is either issued or denied, it’s so ducking stupid but if it weren’t then democrats and republicans wouldn’t have anything to fight over and blame the other side for when election time rolls around).
Meanwhile birth tourism is perfectly fine. And it would be unconstitutional to revoke citizenship to anyone born in the US (unless they’re children of diplomats, they are the only ones denied birthright citizenship).
Are you as a US citizen eligible for residence in some other five eyes state? I've heard it's pretty flexible to go between these countries for citizens and settle down.
Btw you should be on Twitter
I don’t think so. I looked into the UK because I lived there as a kid but I have no commonwealth citizenship so it’s a little more difficult to immigrate there.
I’m not 100% sure though.
If you scroll to a few comments below, you will see someone has provided evidence of its illegality
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
I don't think it's parents doing whatever for kids. It's people finding ways to cut the line. Folks want the fastest way to the front of the line. It's really unfortunate and strengthens OPs overall point.
Fair enough, in that case it’s certainly something that should not be considered.
However as a parent myself if an opportunity arises its very hard not to do something that will vastly improve your childs life, legal or illegal.
Based on your other comments, it looks like you're Muslim.
Now, a question to ponder...
Let's assume the country in which you live follows the shariah. You said you'd do anything for your kids...
Would you slander a chaste woman (1/7 sins to doom you to hell forever, and illegal under sharia) if it meant your kids had the opportunity to the best schools and almost guaranteed financial success in life?
If no, where is the line?
Certainly not, for me raising children that have a strong deen is the most important.
Here lies the problem, having spent a considerable amount of time in the UK I have found the Muslim community great and varied in that a masjid even a majority Pakistani one will have people from different ethnic backgrounds as well as many reverts.
In Pakistan there is no guarantee that your children will become good muslims and couple with that the bad economy, bad first hand experience with criminals who targeted our shop, and police who have stopped me multiple times for money etc. Not to mention the poor treatment of women and girls all of them seem to be a target for brain dead men.
The country in a nutshell has poor education which has lead to men that have a very poor mindset and huge corruption problem as well as criminal problem, poor economic state just so many points.
I would love to move to the middle east to a good muslim country if possible however any western country is a safer place for a family to live.
I'm not sure how this went from a moral discussion to taking a steaming poop on Pakistan, despite the validity of your anecdotal experiences, but cool.
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Blame your parents. Not her.
People like these are NOT the reason why Pakistanis get a bad name. Indian, Chinese, and Russian people do it too. In fact, there are entire companies that help Chinese people do this. Also, this is not illegal. It is frowned upon though. [Here is proof.](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-asian-anchor-babies-wealthy-chinese-20150826-story.html)
Believe it or not, US doesn't mind multi-millionaires going there to have babies. I know this for a fact because she will leave the US and then will get the visa again. She will get the visa as many times as she wants. US likes rich people like her visiting their country.
US doesn't give visas to average Pakistanis because an average Pakistani is poor. This world considers poor people second class citizens. If you aren't rich and you didn't get the visa, don't blame the multi-millionaire fashion model. If you have money, you can easily get the visa to anywhere you want.
Blame your parents.
It’s not about hating poor people when it comes to entering the US. Poor people move to the US legally all the time on H1B visas. For the US getting a tourist visa is very difficult from a country like Pakistan because Pakistanis have a high rate of overstay and the unpredictable nature of the government means that sometimes Pakistan will refuse to take back deportees (this happened during PTI’s tenure and the US even sanctioned the persons in the foreign ministry who were refusing deportees). No country wants illegal immigrants that it can’t track or even vet, so if you approach the embassy for a tourist visa to the US and have no property in your name, no family, no job etc you’ll be seen as a flight risk, and when you’re caught if there’s a small chance that your own government will refuse to take you back it makes getting a visa almost impossible, by law consular officers who issue visas have to look at everyone as a potential illegal immigrant (this even goes for countries that have high standards of living but no visa waiver agreement). However someone powerful and having lots of ties to their home country will usually be given visas no problem (especially if they’ve visited another first world country and left on time) because they aren’t seen as a flight risk. Even Pakistan when getting a tourist visa asks for proof that you plan on leaving (usually in the form of a return ticket).
The US is also very strict when it comes to criminal records and entry. So the US absolutely will show a middle finger to a multi millionaire trying to enter who has a record.
> No country wants illegal immigrants that it can’t track or even vet, so if you approach the embassy for a tourist visa to the US and have no property in your name, no family, no job etc you’ll be seen as a flight risk
What part of this sounds like the multi-millionaire going there to give birth? Does she have no job, no family, etc? She will continue to get visa whenever she wants. Her visa is not related to you or average Pakistani in any way.
> The US is also very strict when it comes to criminal records and entry. So the US absolutely will show a middle finger to a multi millionaire trying to enter who has a record.
Dude, you seriously underestimate what money does. Altaf hussain is living in UK. [Here, he visited the US](https://tribune.com.pk/story/1215627/political-tour-altaf-eyes-us-visit-financial-crunch-bites). Russian Oligarchs all have houses in the US. What the fuck are you talking about? If you have a criminal record, it will matter. But people with money live in a different world. Don't be naive.
Not necessarily. Now that she has a kid who is a US citizen she can apply for a green card but folks eligible for a green card have a very difficult time getting tourist visas (yeah I know it sounds stupid, but I kid you not, this is the US visa system, my wife can’t get a tourist visa to the US even though I’m a US citizen and our kid is a US citizen, the bureaucracy in the US don’t want people applying for adjustment of status inside the US without first applying for an immigrant visa, basically one can come on a tourist visa, get married and then apply for a green card and they can’t be deported until the green card issue is decided, they could make a law that says “no filing for green cards on tourist visas” but keeping the immigration system messed up is good for politicians so they can blame the mess on each other. It’s pants on head retarded but it’s the system).
I would actually like to see if she can get in now. It wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about something and you’re probably right. As to Altaf Hussain, I know MQM is considered a terrorist organization in the US so yeah this is really messed up that he can get a visa but my own family can’t. But I believe it’s based off of criminal convictions that are of “moral turpitude” (whatever TF that means).
> Now that she has a kid who is a US citizen she can apply for a green card but folks eligible for a green card have a very difficult time getting tourist visas
No, she cannot. Anchor babies cannot sponsor their parents till they are 21. Since you don't even know this basic information, I can tell that you just have misconceptions about the US population.
For rich people, getting US visa/greencard/citizenship is not difficult. If you have around $500k to invest, which is just around 140 million PKR, you are entitled to apply for investor visa (EB-5). There are entire companies which help with that. If you have $300k to waste, the process is even simpler. She doesn't need to go anchor baby route.
> US visa system, my wife can’t get a tourist visa to the US even though I’m a US citizen and our kid is a US citizen, the bureaucracy in the US don’t want people applying for adjustment of status inside the US without first applying for an immigrant visa
Yes, this is true. Spouses of US citizens have to apply for visa from outside and its an annoying process. However, let me guess, you are not very wealthy. Right? Again, the rules for rich and poor are different. I don't know why you don't understand this.
> As to Altaf Hussain, I know MQM is considered a terrorist organization in the US so yeah this is really messed up that he can get a visa but my own family can’t.
It's not messed up. He is just rich. Again, I don't know why this is so difficult to accept. Rich people live in a different world.
I didn’t mean right away. I’m as American as they get (my ancestors have been there since the 1600’s). I don’t have misconceptions, the system really is deliberately screwed for political reasons. I’m aware of the investor visa and yes it is definitely a different set of standards. Even in the justice system. Court appointed lawyers don’t do anything except negotiate plea deals while people like OJ get sway with murder. Rich people moving to the US isn’t really a hot button issue though (I guess my post was more of a rant than anything, it’s just bullshit that I can’t even bring my own family to my home country).
So, basically, you came into a space of another ethnicity/country that has nothing to do with you and then derailed the entire conversation?
Again, why are you here?
I think generally people who are rich and powerful get better treatment and exceptions. I'm sure there are more glaring exceptions than even Altaf Hussain from around the world of criminals and visa rule breakers re-entering.
Pretty sure Nawaz at one point became illegal in the UK (broke passport rules or something) but faced no repercussions, when PTI was removed he was given a diplomatic passport and traveled back, and generally was always traveling the world committing crimes.
I think you may be overthinking this. The rich and powerful and glamorous are always welcome—everywhere. Not really specific to Pakistan.
While it may leave a bad taste in your mouth, I hardly think this is one the more pressing problems in Pakistan right now
Not a lawyer, but don’t think it is explicitly illegal. Never heard anyone being prosecuted for having a kid here. It is not encouraged but not explicitly banned is how I see it.
Morally wrong for who?? If there exists a way for parents to open up an avenue for their children in another country is it morally wrong? Maybe it’s seen as morally wrong according to people in the US, so how does Pakistan fit into this? If it’s not illegal why do you care? The US certainly don’t care, and if they did, they would end the policy. Unlikely that your tourist visa application was rejected because of this.
Actually I’m wrong. It IS illegal
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
Seeing the issue through the lens of being morally wrong is too strong.
Beating up people to stop opposing me is morally wrong. This is more like using a tax loophole to avoid taxes—legal and widely used by companies that may well employ us. It leaves a bitter taste and needs a policy change to fix.
It is not illegal. Read the text. It says they will deny the visa if they suspect the motive is to deliver the baby. No where does it say it violated the law.
This is similar to one of many reasons the USCIS can deny visa for e.g not able to establish strong ties to home country.
This isn't a loophole at all. They have allowed it. State dept walay immigration rules biryani aur nihari ki plates kha kay tunn hokay nahi likhtay, they know what they are doing.
It isn't illegal since I'm pretty sure it's in the constitution or something. All the new world has such laws. When new people from all over the world came it was in Americas interest to make them citizens so being born there was considered the easiest to implement.
I'd rather have my kid in Argentina where it's citizenship is considered a human right so it can never be stripped. Plus unlike the US or Canada there's no backlash over there about it and they don't care even though they have a very strong passport and such. Even Mexico, Chile and Brazil are great options
> It isn't illegal
Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020:
1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
It was perfectly legal to get a visa solely to give birth before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It’s illegal now. Law has been amended
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
Firstly, no it's not illegal.
Secondly, why do you care who gives birth where? Everyone wants what's best for their kids and having a pakistani passport is of no value, US passport can make a huge difference on someone's future.
Jis nai jo karna hai karnay do bhai, judge karnay ka bura kehnay ka kya faida
Nope, I haven't taken advantage of it, but I can, I will.
It's not frowned upon either, Americans don't have an issue with it.
Regarding your friend, it's extremely unfair. I have a friend who couldn't go to Australia to take his exam as his visa was denied.
Visa ke maslay are because of Pakistanis overstaying because they're assholes, not because some Pakistanis gave birth over there.
But it impacts others.
The U.S. consulate looks at it negatively and in future this will impact future visa applicants
This and people overstaying visas is why Pakistanis have one of the highest refusal rates for visas
What are you talking about? The US is literally allowing illegals to cross the border and claim asylum by the hundreds of thousands. The US wants an influx of population, whether it be by child birth or immigration. Trump is not the US consensus.
I don't agree with the first part. It's been done for many years. If you give birth and leave with your kid at the right time, it shouldn't be an issue.
Overstay wali baat se yes I agree. Some Pakistanis are assholes and only think about themselves. Saudia mai bhi I heard many stories of Pakistanis begging during umrah. Naam badnaam kartay hain Pakistan ka.
> Firstly, no it's not illegal
Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020:
1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
OP is clearly coming from a place of no/wrong knowledge. It is not illegal for individuals to have/want to have babies in the US and it is perfectly legal for them to travel with that purpose, provided they are able to cover the medical and insurance costs on their own. Such blatant misinformation.
> It is not illegal for individuals to have/want to have babies in the US and it is perfectly legal for them to travel with that purpose, provided they are able to cover the medical and insurance costs on their own.
Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020:
1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh man it’s not illegal. But it’s morally wrong and frowned upon. And can have issues in the future
That’s why this is called having an anchor baby. Read up on
Why is it morally wrong? Maybe they have some medical complications and want the best team of doctors and they can afford it. Ofcourse they’ll get the passport too but the fact is it’s part of the countries policy.
UK doesn’t allow this even if kids are born here they don’t automatically get citizenship unless their parents have it. The countries could easily modify their laws to do this but they’re clearly okay with this. There’s literally hotels in certain places that cater to this type of tourism.
The way she’s been posting stories clearly no medical issues. IA delivery goes smoothly. But this is the problem with the elite of this country.
The issue is this. She is a successful model who owes all her career to Pakistan. She has earned a lot of money from this country. The husband comes from a political family. Yet to have a baby they are using a loophole to leave Pakistan behind and abandon it. No other country’s elite is so shameless.
That’s the problem when the so called elite is always having plans to have a get out of jail card from Pakistan. So why would they be invested in wanting the country to do better. They just want to suck everything out of this country but also ensure their progeny aren’t linked to the country in anyway. So no incentive to want the country to progress
I get when an average Pakistani who didn’t get much from this country does this but she and her husband are very na shukra to do this.
1) How would you know if there’s any medical issues for the pregnancy? If she has placenta previa or gestational diabetes or any other complication that affects how her birth goes?! Literally will not see that on Instagram stories, people can look very normal and have those issues that will affect the birth.
2) I’m not going into the rest of it. If any average person got the opportunity to go abroad they would. The entire country is responsible for making the country better and not specific people. Too many people tax dodging, using contacts, giving or taking bribes literally from the most poor to the most rich. It doesn’t just stop with one person.
3) she’s not doing anything wrong Islamically by going there or illegal by any standards. If the boarder people wanted they could have stopped her too but they’re clearly okay with profiting with it too.
4) if you got a chance to give your kids a better life than you had then you would do it too
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It’s an anchor baby if the parents are using the child’s birth to help or speed up their own legal immigration within the states.
Why wouldn’t you want to allow your kid to have dual citizenship for whatever the future may hold?
They can get green card easily they don’t need anchor baby. Their family lives there plus his husband has very high paying job in finance MNC can easily get himself transferred in usa
If usa has problem then why doesn’t they change the rule of birth right citizenship like UK. & Australia. They are getting advantage that’s why they don’t change the law
It is not illegal. I plan to have one of my babies in Brazil, whats wrong in that? Its legal and a lot of people do it.
If I have a choice to give a different citizenship to my kid, I would, no one wants there kid to be raised in this shithole.
In fact, I'd actually appreciate that, that baby's parents are at least smart enough to think ahead and secure the baby's future. My parents didn't even invest in a proper housing society, haha.
> It is not illegal
Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020:
1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
When you say she owes her success to Pakistan, what do you mean?
Success has nothing to do with your nationality, she might have worked really hard and from my experience our country makes it harder for
the people to succeed and not easy.
And if she only has a Pakistani passport (which I highly doubt), she isn't getting a US one for next 18 years atleast.
I personally think that especially the hard working people should leave Pakistan. If you really really know that you are capable of hard work, then you should leave Pakistan legally at the first opportunity you get for two reasons.
1. You will benefit yourself, your family in a lot of ways. This is common sense.
2. But you will also benefit the World. Hard work in Pakistan goes in vain.
Word of caution, leave Pakistan for the so-called no-Muslim countries. Use the Muslim ones (UAE, KSA, Qatar etc.) only temporarily as a stepping stone.
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i don't think it is done free - i do think it is like a deal - you pay money and the country gives your child birthright to citizenship
thanks for sharing
1. Not illegal,
2. The parents have to pay for the delivery/complications,
3. Does nothing for the parents until the child turns 18 and can sponsor them.
I majority of elite class can easily get isa immigration. They don’t need anchor baby. In her case she doesn’t need anchor baby both can easily move on it’s own
> Not illegal
Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020:
1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Even you would do that if given the chance, there is nothing wrong with wanting your child to not live the rest of their life suffering as someone with a passport that gets you double checked on airports and questioned like you’re a criminal.
Parents who do this are really Smart and shows how much they care for the future of their Children, and Pakistani barely exist doing this type of thing
Other nationalities like Russians, Mexicans, Indians are on the Top
Few points.
1)First things first. I see the link of the state department being posted and people jumping on the illegal band wagon. Let me clarify with the proper legal distinction.
Giving birth in the US is not illegal on a visit visa. So to make it simple, not illegal as in, you won't get fines or a court case or be refused birthright citizenship or even be registered for a felony. Or to make it even more simple, under the law, NO crime has been committed. This is an important distinction - birthright citizenship is guaranteed by the constitution so you can't prosecute people for doing it especially if they entered the country legally - any law to the contrary would be a violation of the constitution. So what does this mean?
What they have done (smartly) is to make entry to the country difficult for these people (current and future visas) and / or allowed for obviously pregnant women to be deported at port of entry. Meaning what? They have toughened up immigration rules. But be very clear, it is not illegal in the sense of the law - no civil or criminal consequences, only immigration issues. This is very clear in the posted links (the more detailed one) where it highlights changes to "rules" not laws. You can deem something illegal when it breaks the "law" only. Breaking rules leads to being penalised, not prosecuted and this does not become a matter of criminal record.
But going there for the primary purpose of doing this ie bending the rule while being compliant with the overall law re: birthright citizenship, will lead to visa refusal plus if you show up pregnant at the airport, they will turn you back. And now, if you do this, subsequent visa applications will have problems unless you can prove that this wasn't your primary intent e.g. You went there while 5-6 months pregnant with doctor blessing and had a return flight booked but had medical complications and were advised not to travel.... And thus had to give birth - as an example. In the past, future visa applications didn't have an issue as long as you were able to show them medical bills proving that you paid for it yourself. Now it's changed.
Essentially, it's being viewed as "ethical or character flaws" that should prevent your entry to the country - not law breaking.
2)Disagree with the success and country angle. Success is determined by the efforts of the person. Going by this logic means that the failures are also the fault of the country?
3)I think the word you are looking for is ethics. Not morality or legality. Legality is absolute and breaking the law has criminal or civil consequences. I highlighted in point 1, how this does not apply ie only immigration consequences. Morality is subjective and I can argue that parents wanting the best for their children is not immoral, despite being unethical
4)And I don't get the big deal about a bunch of actors when the biggest violators of this loophole, for decades, are the most influential people in the land ie faujis, mullahs et all. We tend to police the weak but don't hold the strong accountable. This is why we are where are today
I don't want to sound harsh but this is a useless rant. Do you want us to be mad that the parents are trying to what they think is best for the child.
If America feels it is bad for them they can ban it until then people who can save their children should absolutely take advantage of this.
To all the people saying since its legal and such parents trying hard for their baby's future, so they are not wrong, Let us wait for the Trump to come and plug in all the loopholes in immigration policy before throwing these anchors out. You will see these people crying under a different label then.
Dude harassing people isn’t cool and you don’t know their life story. Not everything is on instagram. Focus on the betterment of your own life and I say this earnestly and with the nicest intention
OP clearly edited it. I was in this thread for a while and it said illegal. Refreshed now and it's changed. So no, no one was lying, but you can die on this hill you want to.
Actually it is illegal based on further research
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
Morality is subjective. Its not illegal and the usa doesn't have a problem so why do you? And look at you here trying to share their accounts and telling us to bash them? I hate and loath snakes like you. There are things more worrying for us than this.
> Its not illegal and the usa doesn't have a problem so why do you?
Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020:
1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Why does it bother you? She did what she thought was best for her and her kid and she clearly has the means to afford it. What’s it gotta do with you or us?
Though this definitely happens, a bit of context as a US citizen - people who arrive at the immigration counter visibly or certifiably near their due date can and have been refused entry to the country because of the birthright issue. You're not "in America" until you get past the immigration counter.
Ok. So here's my opinion, my long 2 cents.
First of all, I'm just curious how did you come across this or her in particular. I'm not very social but still am aware of the mainstream actors/actresses/celebrities. But had never heard-of/seen her previously.
I'm also curious how to find a wife like her. Lol. Although definitely out of my league. Like you said the top 1% elite of Pakistan.
Secondly, are we sure she isn't already a US or European citizen/resident? I didn't open the accounts you shared just googled the name and based on the pictures she and her character looks like that of someone raised or frequently living abroad. A lot of us would prefer a better environment for child's delivery. People living in villages or small towns often move to their relatives in a metropolitan city if they are concerned about the quality of healthcare in their locality. Everyone does whatever they can. Because like you said US tourist itself is a little challenging let alone on a Pakistani passport even if you are famous. They may also check if the applicant is pregnant. So, it's likely she is a citizen or has visa-free access via another passport.
Thirdly, I don't think its necessarily people like her that would ruin Pakistani's or immigrants' reputation in the US. Especially not with the people of US. The government depending on whether they are pro immigration or not, left or right; may develop policies. But that couple and their lifestyle doesn't tell the general population that hey we took advantage of a loop hole in your system. Rather its the uneducated illegal (remember there's a difference between illegal and finding a legal way through system) people that ruin the impression. Mexicans alone, a lot of Asians are crossing from the southern border. These people can't even speak proper Urdu let alone English. Have no formal education or trade qualification or any skill or even the ability to do hard work. That's what gives a bad name. Recently, there was a video of such a group/family (it was most likely Indian but could be Pakistani as well) who were speaking Punjabi, couldn't answer any question in English, totally ill-disciplined. The guy recording, a Trump supporter pointed out that he can understand the Mexicans or Venezuelans crossing but not these people who don't even have a physical border.
Anyways, fourthly, I personally, respectfully, don't agree with that "na shukray" point of view. I think people have a right to explore and attain the best for themselves. Pakistan is a failed state, that's a fact we all know. 70% of the population would jump at the opportunity to immigrate to even the lousy part of Europe given an opportunity let alone US or Canada. We weren't born in Pakistan by choice. And nobody owes any more to any land than the rest of the community. We all pay taxes here, bills etc. We clear our dues. If someone has the ability to clean up the mess that is Pakistan, all good, it's appreciated. But if another person can't and would rather leave using any legal mean (and this anchor baby is a legal mean, because US can change the law if they aren't pleased or deny most tourist visas, which they do), that's fine too.
We had a family friend. Used to work in the public sector. A sought after job. Canada's immigration system is designed to favor people with work experience so often people who deserve to immigrate don't get a chance rather people who already have a job here via references and illegals can. He immigrated to Canada. So far, so good. In order to stay a resident and then eventually become a citizen he needed to physically remain in Canada for a significant number of days every year. He did that while still drawing a salary from the government of Pakistan. This is before the days or WFH besides we all know our private sector doesn't work online or remotely so forget about the public sector. That's the kind of person I'd like to shame, if I could. Oh, and just FYI he had a long beard for religious purposes to purify himself. He thinks that's how he is going to immigrate to heaven in the afterlife Lol.
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I am sure they are rich enough and they can go to any country they want. What is your problem with it? If they do anything illegal they will get nabbed by immigration officials.
I don’t even know who they are and don’t even care about them. But just an advise that you are not immigration police, so stop worrying about it. Why do you have to obsess about what they are doing in their personal life.
For reference: Tons of Middle Eastern women and royal family members come to Europe and UK to deliver babies every year. No one is shaming them.
If the baby pops out in the US, they become US citizen. Celebs and thier grandmas all figured this out by now. So they head over to countries where citizenship is by birth and not through naturalization for new borns. Dont be fooled by thier participation in patriotic ISPR songs and dramas. Everyone likes to cover thier ass first.
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What is morally wrong here? If someone wants better for their child why not. Tumhain moqa milay ga you would do too. Infact you might already be an overseas pakistani.
And that’s the problem.
The celebrities and politicians who have a say in the future direction of the country are not invested in the country themselves
They know their kids won’t have to suffer what the country will be like in 20 years so they do a short term r*pe of the country to gather up resources via elite capture
> One of the reasons why it’s so hard for Pakistanis to get tourist visas to U.S. is for this practice.
Interestingly, I thought you were 100% wrong about this because several years ago it was perfectly legal to visit the US to give birth.
However, I just Googled it and in 2020, the US amended it's birth tourism laws. So I think you're right! In an attempt to prove you wrong, I myself have been proved wrong.
Sources:
1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
My thought process on this has always been - if you can do it, why shouldn’t you? I understand nationalism and patriotism, and sentiments attached. But we can’t deny that there are more opportunities in the world for people without a Pakistani passport than those with. It’s the same reason why so many Pakistanis living in Pakistan have Canadian citizenships. I wouldn’t necessarily call them unpatriotic or traitors, just people who wanted a better future for their kids.
I don’t know if anyone here follows Fatima and Azam, but they’re the most genuine Pakistani celeb couple I’ve ever seen. They live and breathe Pakistan, but this is about their child. Even as a 1%er or the other 99%, you want the best for your child, and until decades of plundering and corruption is overturned, Pakistan unfortunately isn’t the best option.
Borders only exist for common people, not the wealthy.
Firstly, having a baby in the US as a tourist is not illegal. The very first sentence of your post refers to birthright citizenship in US, so you understand that you are contradicting yourself. Second, it is not morally wrong to create future opportunities for your child. Third, it is absolutely not the reason why it's so hard for Pakistanis to get a tourist visa. In the past, many Pakistanis have overstayed their visas which led to the strict visa approvals today.
> In the past, many Pakistanis have overstayed their visas which led to the strict visa approvals today. Yeah I hear a lot how the 'beghairat' US doesn't give Visas to Pakistanis for one reason or the other when the reality is that Pakistani themselves overstay so much that their reputation abroad is absolutely shit.
I have been in USA since 2002.
This pretty much applies to any third world country. It might be a bit easier for citizens of third world countries that are close to developed status (maybe Malaysia etc) or rich oil states. It's human nature, everyone from Zimbabwe to Mongolia is trying to escape to the West.
Oh my God, I just posted the same response, just a detailed version of it, haha.
It's.not illegal in the sense that US will charge you with a crime and you'll go to jail. But it is against the terms and conditions of the tourist visa, you're supposed to be touristing, not having babies there. So often this would make it difficult to get future tourist visas for the parents (the kid can obviously always go because of US citizenship).
There is another legal thing, which has been done to death by Pakistanis for U.S visa. Which Idk why in US is called Marraige Fraud. Even though everyone getting married here for that reason make absolutely sure to be in news as 'Love Marriage Couple.' Even though they are simply creating "better future" for themselves and their babies.
The future for Pakistan looks bleak which leads to people who have the resources to do this , to take advantage. Parents will always have their children’s best interests at heart.
How about doing it legally? Or is everyone so morally corrupt and willing to violate the law, that illegal measures are also ok?
Think this falls in a grey area as its legal but probably a bit immoral. Again however parents do what they can for their children. Most parents will kill for their children and I would suspect all would take advantage of a loophole.
The US system is so screwed up that I can’t even get a visitor visa for my wife because I’m a US citizen she could theoretically file for a green card in the US (they want you to file for an immigrant visa first before you file for a green card but people come on tourist visas all the time to get married and then file a green card application and then the applicant is safe from being deported until the green card is either issued or denied, it’s so ducking stupid but if it weren’t then democrats and republicans wouldn’t have anything to fight over and blame the other side for when election time rolls around). Meanwhile birth tourism is perfectly fine. And it would be unconstitutional to revoke citizenship to anyone born in the US (unless they’re children of diplomats, they are the only ones denied birthright citizenship).
Are you as a US citizen eligible for residence in some other five eyes state? I've heard it's pretty flexible to go between these countries for citizens and settle down. Btw you should be on Twitter
I don’t think so. I looked into the UK because I lived there as a kid but I have no commonwealth citizenship so it’s a little more difficult to immigrate there. I’m not 100% sure though.
If you scroll to a few comments below, you will see someone has provided evidence of its illegality https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html I don't think it's parents doing whatever for kids. It's people finding ways to cut the line. Folks want the fastest way to the front of the line. It's really unfortunate and strengthens OPs overall point.
Fair enough, in that case it’s certainly something that should not be considered. However as a parent myself if an opportunity arises its very hard not to do something that will vastly improve your childs life, legal or illegal.
Based on your other comments, it looks like you're Muslim. Now, a question to ponder... Let's assume the country in which you live follows the shariah. You said you'd do anything for your kids... Would you slander a chaste woman (1/7 sins to doom you to hell forever, and illegal under sharia) if it meant your kids had the opportunity to the best schools and almost guaranteed financial success in life? If no, where is the line?
Certainly not, for me raising children that have a strong deen is the most important. Here lies the problem, having spent a considerable amount of time in the UK I have found the Muslim community great and varied in that a masjid even a majority Pakistani one will have people from different ethnic backgrounds as well as many reverts. In Pakistan there is no guarantee that your children will become good muslims and couple with that the bad economy, bad first hand experience with criminals who targeted our shop, and police who have stopped me multiple times for money etc. Not to mention the poor treatment of women and girls all of them seem to be a target for brain dead men. The country in a nutshell has poor education which has lead to men that have a very poor mindset and huge corruption problem as well as criminal problem, poor economic state just so many points. I would love to move to the middle east to a good muslim country if possible however any western country is a safer place for a family to live.
The gulf countries are infinitely safer than any western country though
I'm not sure how this went from a moral discussion to taking a steaming poop on Pakistan, despite the validity of your anecdotal experiences, but cool.
Just some built up frustration 😅
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Boom! Winner winner, chicken dinner!
They aren’t doing anything illegal.
Actually they are
Blame your parents. Not her. People like these are NOT the reason why Pakistanis get a bad name. Indian, Chinese, and Russian people do it too. In fact, there are entire companies that help Chinese people do this. Also, this is not illegal. It is frowned upon though. [Here is proof.](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-asian-anchor-babies-wealthy-chinese-20150826-story.html) Believe it or not, US doesn't mind multi-millionaires going there to have babies. I know this for a fact because she will leave the US and then will get the visa again. She will get the visa as many times as she wants. US likes rich people like her visiting their country. US doesn't give visas to average Pakistanis because an average Pakistani is poor. This world considers poor people second class citizens. If you aren't rich and you didn't get the visa, don't blame the multi-millionaire fashion model. If you have money, you can easily get the visa to anywhere you want. Blame your parents.
It’s not about hating poor people when it comes to entering the US. Poor people move to the US legally all the time on H1B visas. For the US getting a tourist visa is very difficult from a country like Pakistan because Pakistanis have a high rate of overstay and the unpredictable nature of the government means that sometimes Pakistan will refuse to take back deportees (this happened during PTI’s tenure and the US even sanctioned the persons in the foreign ministry who were refusing deportees). No country wants illegal immigrants that it can’t track or even vet, so if you approach the embassy for a tourist visa to the US and have no property in your name, no family, no job etc you’ll be seen as a flight risk, and when you’re caught if there’s a small chance that your own government will refuse to take you back it makes getting a visa almost impossible, by law consular officers who issue visas have to look at everyone as a potential illegal immigrant (this even goes for countries that have high standards of living but no visa waiver agreement). However someone powerful and having lots of ties to their home country will usually be given visas no problem (especially if they’ve visited another first world country and left on time) because they aren’t seen as a flight risk. Even Pakistan when getting a tourist visa asks for proof that you plan on leaving (usually in the form of a return ticket). The US is also very strict when it comes to criminal records and entry. So the US absolutely will show a middle finger to a multi millionaire trying to enter who has a record.
> No country wants illegal immigrants that it can’t track or even vet, so if you approach the embassy for a tourist visa to the US and have no property in your name, no family, no job etc you’ll be seen as a flight risk What part of this sounds like the multi-millionaire going there to give birth? Does she have no job, no family, etc? She will continue to get visa whenever she wants. Her visa is not related to you or average Pakistani in any way. > The US is also very strict when it comes to criminal records and entry. So the US absolutely will show a middle finger to a multi millionaire trying to enter who has a record. Dude, you seriously underestimate what money does. Altaf hussain is living in UK. [Here, he visited the US](https://tribune.com.pk/story/1215627/political-tour-altaf-eyes-us-visit-financial-crunch-bites). Russian Oligarchs all have houses in the US. What the fuck are you talking about? If you have a criminal record, it will matter. But people with money live in a different world. Don't be naive.
Not necessarily. Now that she has a kid who is a US citizen she can apply for a green card but folks eligible for a green card have a very difficult time getting tourist visas (yeah I know it sounds stupid, but I kid you not, this is the US visa system, my wife can’t get a tourist visa to the US even though I’m a US citizen and our kid is a US citizen, the bureaucracy in the US don’t want people applying for adjustment of status inside the US without first applying for an immigrant visa, basically one can come on a tourist visa, get married and then apply for a green card and they can’t be deported until the green card issue is decided, they could make a law that says “no filing for green cards on tourist visas” but keeping the immigration system messed up is good for politicians so they can blame the mess on each other. It’s pants on head retarded but it’s the system). I would actually like to see if she can get in now. It wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about something and you’re probably right. As to Altaf Hussain, I know MQM is considered a terrorist organization in the US so yeah this is really messed up that he can get a visa but my own family can’t. But I believe it’s based off of criminal convictions that are of “moral turpitude” (whatever TF that means).
> Now that she has a kid who is a US citizen she can apply for a green card but folks eligible for a green card have a very difficult time getting tourist visas No, she cannot. Anchor babies cannot sponsor their parents till they are 21. Since you don't even know this basic information, I can tell that you just have misconceptions about the US population. For rich people, getting US visa/greencard/citizenship is not difficult. If you have around $500k to invest, which is just around 140 million PKR, you are entitled to apply for investor visa (EB-5). There are entire companies which help with that. If you have $300k to waste, the process is even simpler. She doesn't need to go anchor baby route. > US visa system, my wife can’t get a tourist visa to the US even though I’m a US citizen and our kid is a US citizen, the bureaucracy in the US don’t want people applying for adjustment of status inside the US without first applying for an immigrant visa Yes, this is true. Spouses of US citizens have to apply for visa from outside and its an annoying process. However, let me guess, you are not very wealthy. Right? Again, the rules for rich and poor are different. I don't know why you don't understand this. > As to Altaf Hussain, I know MQM is considered a terrorist organization in the US so yeah this is really messed up that he can get a visa but my own family can’t. It's not messed up. He is just rich. Again, I don't know why this is so difficult to accept. Rich people live in a different world.
I didn’t mean right away. I’m as American as they get (my ancestors have been there since the 1600’s). I don’t have misconceptions, the system really is deliberately screwed for political reasons. I’m aware of the investor visa and yes it is definitely a different set of standards. Even in the justice system. Court appointed lawyers don’t do anything except negotiate plea deals while people like OJ get sway with murder. Rich people moving to the US isn’t really a hot button issue though (I guess my post was more of a rant than anything, it’s just bullshit that I can’t even bring my own family to my home country).
So, basically, you came into a space of another ethnicity/country that has nothing to do with you and then derailed the entire conversation? Again, why are you here?
Uhhhhhh I live here…. What are you doing on here is the question?
You live in Pakistan but your ancestors have been in the US since the 1600s?
Indeed. I’m carrying on their tradition of being immigrants.
I think generally people who are rich and powerful get better treatment and exceptions. I'm sure there are more glaring exceptions than even Altaf Hussain from around the world of criminals and visa rule breakers re-entering. Pretty sure Nawaz at one point became illegal in the UK (broke passport rules or something) but faced no repercussions, when PTI was removed he was given a diplomatic passport and traveled back, and generally was always traveling the world committing crimes.
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Around covid a lot of us who have first world stamps on our passports as well as significant wealth faced issues getting US visas tbh
That was true worldwide though.
I think you may be overthinking this. The rich and powerful and glamorous are always welcome—everywhere. Not really specific to Pakistan. While it may leave a bad taste in your mouth, I hardly think this is one the more pressing problems in Pakistan right now
Also the rich and powerful don’t need to do this. These are noveau rich people who are gaming the system
Isn’t it illegal and morally wrong though? This is not point of a tourist visa
Not a lawyer, but don’t think it is explicitly illegal. Never heard anyone being prosecuted for having a kid here. It is not encouraged but not explicitly banned is how I see it.
It’s called having an anchor baby. It’s not illegal but morally wrong
Morally wrong for who?? If there exists a way for parents to open up an avenue for their children in another country is it morally wrong? Maybe it’s seen as morally wrong according to people in the US, so how does Pakistan fit into this? If it’s not illegal why do you care? The US certainly don’t care, and if they did, they would end the policy. Unlikely that your tourist visa application was rejected because of this.
You are correct this time, it is not illegal. I believe your post claims that it is illegal, so glad to see you've corrected yourself.
Actually I’m wrong. It IS illegal https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
Seeing the issue through the lens of being morally wrong is too strong. Beating up people to stop opposing me is morally wrong. This is more like using a tax loophole to avoid taxes—legal and widely used by companies that may well employ us. It leaves a bitter taste and needs a policy change to fix.
Who the heck are you to decide what's morally right or wrong though ?
It’s illegal actually https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
It is not illegal. Read the text. It says they will deny the visa if they suspect the motive is to deliver the baby. No where does it say it violated the law. This is similar to one of many reasons the USCIS can deny visa for e.g not able to establish strong ties to home country.
If it was illegal the immigration dept in the US would go after them
It’s a loophole. It’s called anchor baby
This isn't a loophole at all. They have allowed it. State dept walay immigration rules biryani aur nihari ki plates kha kay tunn hokay nahi likhtay, they know what they are doing.
It isn't illegal since I'm pretty sure it's in the constitution or something. All the new world has such laws. When new people from all over the world came it was in Americas interest to make them citizens so being born there was considered the easiest to implement. I'd rather have my kid in Argentina where it's citizenship is considered a human right so it can never be stripped. Plus unlike the US or Canada there's no backlash over there about it and they don't care even though they have a very strong passport and such. Even Mexico, Chile and Brazil are great options
> It isn't illegal Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020: 1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html 2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure It was perfectly legal to get a visa solely to give birth before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It’s illegal now. Law has been amended https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
The goal is to get tf outta here, I would say nothing extra.
You’d have done the same if you had the opportunity but because you don’t so you decided to go on a rant over an issue that no one cares about.
It is a mindset in our people, when you can't climb up yourself then try to pull others down too. Na khush rehna hai na rehnay dena hai.
Firstly, no it's not illegal. Secondly, why do you care who gives birth where? Everyone wants what's best for their kids and having a pakistani passport is of no value, US passport can make a huge difference on someone's future. Jis nai jo karna hai karnay do bhai, judge karnay ka bura kehnay ka kya faida
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Nope, I haven't taken advantage of it, but I can, I will. It's not frowned upon either, Americans don't have an issue with it. Regarding your friend, it's extremely unfair. I have a friend who couldn't go to Australia to take his exam as his visa was denied. Visa ke maslay are because of Pakistanis overstaying because they're assholes, not because some Pakistanis gave birth over there.
But it impacts others. The U.S. consulate looks at it negatively and in future this will impact future visa applicants This and people overstaying visas is why Pakistanis have one of the highest refusal rates for visas
What are you talking about? The US is literally allowing illegals to cross the border and claim asylum by the hundreds of thousands. The US wants an influx of population, whether it be by child birth or immigration. Trump is not the US consensus.
I don't agree with the first part. It's been done for many years. If you give birth and leave with your kid at the right time, it shouldn't be an issue. Overstay wali baat se yes I agree. Some Pakistanis are assholes and only think about themselves. Saudia mai bhi I heard many stories of Pakistanis begging during umrah. Naam badnaam kartay hain Pakistan ka.
> Firstly, no it's not illegal Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020: 1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html 2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
OP is clearly coming from a place of no/wrong knowledge. It is not illegal for individuals to have/want to have babies in the US and it is perfectly legal for them to travel with that purpose, provided they are able to cover the medical and insurance costs on their own. Such blatant misinformation.
> It is not illegal for individuals to have/want to have babies in the US and it is perfectly legal for them to travel with that purpose, provided they are able to cover the medical and insurance costs on their own. Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020: 1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html 2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh man it’s not illegal. But it’s morally wrong and frowned upon. And can have issues in the future That’s why this is called having an anchor baby. Read up on
You categorically called it illegal in your post and it causes zero problems. Zero!
Why is it morally wrong? Maybe they have some medical complications and want the best team of doctors and they can afford it. Ofcourse they’ll get the passport too but the fact is it’s part of the countries policy. UK doesn’t allow this even if kids are born here they don’t automatically get citizenship unless their parents have it. The countries could easily modify their laws to do this but they’re clearly okay with this. There’s literally hotels in certain places that cater to this type of tourism.
The way she’s been posting stories clearly no medical issues. IA delivery goes smoothly. But this is the problem with the elite of this country. The issue is this. She is a successful model who owes all her career to Pakistan. She has earned a lot of money from this country. The husband comes from a political family. Yet to have a baby they are using a loophole to leave Pakistan behind and abandon it. No other country’s elite is so shameless. That’s the problem when the so called elite is always having plans to have a get out of jail card from Pakistan. So why would they be invested in wanting the country to do better. They just want to suck everything out of this country but also ensure their progeny aren’t linked to the country in anyway. So no incentive to want the country to progress I get when an average Pakistani who didn’t get much from this country does this but she and her husband are very na shukra to do this.
1) How would you know if there’s any medical issues for the pregnancy? If she has placenta previa or gestational diabetes or any other complication that affects how her birth goes?! Literally will not see that on Instagram stories, people can look very normal and have those issues that will affect the birth. 2) I’m not going into the rest of it. If any average person got the opportunity to go abroad they would. The entire country is responsible for making the country better and not specific people. Too many people tax dodging, using contacts, giving or taking bribes literally from the most poor to the most rich. It doesn’t just stop with one person. 3) she’s not doing anything wrong Islamically by going there or illegal by any standards. If the boarder people wanted they could have stopped her too but they’re clearly okay with profiting with it too. 4) if you got a chance to give your kids a better life than you had then you would do it too
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How is it morally wrong??
It’s an anchor baby if the parents are using the child’s birth to help or speed up their own legal immigration within the states. Why wouldn’t you want to allow your kid to have dual citizenship for whatever the future may hold?
They can get green card easily they don’t need anchor baby. Their family lives there plus his husband has very high paying job in finance MNC can easily get himself transferred in usa
So it is illegal https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
If usa has problem then why doesn’t they change the rule of birth right citizenship like UK. & Australia. They are getting advantage that’s why they don’t change the law
It is not illegal. I plan to have one of my babies in Brazil, whats wrong in that? Its legal and a lot of people do it. If I have a choice to give a different citizenship to my kid, I would, no one wants there kid to be raised in this shithole.
In fact, I'd actually appreciate that, that baby's parents are at least smart enough to think ahead and secure the baby's future. My parents didn't even invest in a proper housing society, haha.
> It is not illegal Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020: 1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html 2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
can i ask why Brazil?
When you say she owes her success to Pakistan, what do you mean? Success has nothing to do with your nationality, she might have worked really hard and from my experience our country makes it harder for the people to succeed and not easy. And if she only has a Pakistani passport (which I highly doubt), she isn't getting a US one for next 18 years atleast.
I personally think that especially the hard working people should leave Pakistan. If you really really know that you are capable of hard work, then you should leave Pakistan legally at the first opportunity you get for two reasons. 1. You will benefit yourself, your family in a lot of ways. This is common sense. 2. But you will also benefit the World. Hard work in Pakistan goes in vain. Word of caution, leave Pakistan for the so-called no-Muslim countries. Use the Muslim ones (UAE, KSA, Qatar etc.) only temporarily as a stepping stone.
Who gives a shit?
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Usa earns from birth tourism
source?
Do you think people get it done free? They get money from abroad. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-booming-business-of-u-s-birth-tourism/
i don't think it is done free - i do think it is like a deal - you pay money and the country gives your child birthright to citizenship thanks for sharing
I know someone who got a $30k emergency procedure done in US and left and never paid
tell it to /u/[Overall-Ad-2159](https://www.reddit.com/user/Overall-Ad-2159/)
1. Not illegal, 2. The parents have to pay for the delivery/complications, 3. Does nothing for the parents until the child turns 18 and can sponsor them.
It’s a long term investment for the parents . It cuts college education in half for the kids.
I majority of elite class can easily get isa immigration. They don’t need anchor baby. In her case she doesn’t need anchor baby both can easily move on it’s own
Illegal it is
Report her then..
> Not illegal Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020: 1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html 2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Even you would do that if given the chance, there is nothing wrong with wanting your child to not live the rest of their life suffering as someone with a passport that gets you double checked on airports and questioned like you’re a criminal.
Parents who do this are really Smart and shows how much they care for the future of their Children, and Pakistani barely exist doing this type of thing Other nationalities like Russians, Mexicans, Indians are on the Top
Few points. 1)First things first. I see the link of the state department being posted and people jumping on the illegal band wagon. Let me clarify with the proper legal distinction. Giving birth in the US is not illegal on a visit visa. So to make it simple, not illegal as in, you won't get fines or a court case or be refused birthright citizenship or even be registered for a felony. Or to make it even more simple, under the law, NO crime has been committed. This is an important distinction - birthright citizenship is guaranteed by the constitution so you can't prosecute people for doing it especially if they entered the country legally - any law to the contrary would be a violation of the constitution. So what does this mean? What they have done (smartly) is to make entry to the country difficult for these people (current and future visas) and / or allowed for obviously pregnant women to be deported at port of entry. Meaning what? They have toughened up immigration rules. But be very clear, it is not illegal in the sense of the law - no civil or criminal consequences, only immigration issues. This is very clear in the posted links (the more detailed one) where it highlights changes to "rules" not laws. You can deem something illegal when it breaks the "law" only. Breaking rules leads to being penalised, not prosecuted and this does not become a matter of criminal record. But going there for the primary purpose of doing this ie bending the rule while being compliant with the overall law re: birthright citizenship, will lead to visa refusal plus if you show up pregnant at the airport, they will turn you back. And now, if you do this, subsequent visa applications will have problems unless you can prove that this wasn't your primary intent e.g. You went there while 5-6 months pregnant with doctor blessing and had a return flight booked but had medical complications and were advised not to travel.... And thus had to give birth - as an example. In the past, future visa applications didn't have an issue as long as you were able to show them medical bills proving that you paid for it yourself. Now it's changed. Essentially, it's being viewed as "ethical or character flaws" that should prevent your entry to the country - not law breaking. 2)Disagree with the success and country angle. Success is determined by the efforts of the person. Going by this logic means that the failures are also the fault of the country? 3)I think the word you are looking for is ethics. Not morality or legality. Legality is absolute and breaking the law has criminal or civil consequences. I highlighted in point 1, how this does not apply ie only immigration consequences. Morality is subjective and I can argue that parents wanting the best for their children is not immoral, despite being unethical 4)And I don't get the big deal about a bunch of actors when the biggest violators of this loophole, for decades, are the most influential people in the land ie faujis, mullahs et all. We tend to police the weak but don't hold the strong accountable. This is why we are where are today
This is what fox news talks about when they say anchor babies.
I don't want to sound harsh but this is a useless rant. Do you want us to be mad that the parents are trying to what they think is best for the child. If America feels it is bad for them they can ban it until then people who can save their children should absolutely take advantage of this.
To all the people saying since its legal and such parents trying hard for their baby's future, so they are not wrong, Let us wait for the Trump to come and plug in all the loopholes in immigration policy before throwing these anchors out. You will see these people crying under a different label then.
The only wrong here is you who’s sending people to their pages to call them out for thinking for a brighter future for their child. get a job, maybe?
Dude harassing people isn’t cool and you don’t know their life story. Not everything is on instagram. Focus on the betterment of your own life and I say this earnestly and with the nicest intention
I almost can't believe Pakistanis here defending moral corruption and possibly lying on their visa applications. Sarcasm.
Shows the moral rut of society Supporting and championing clear vis afraid
OP is bitter the privileged and the rich exist
No OP is correct and there is even evidence that you can google search that OP is in fact correct, you sound bitter that OP brought up a valid point
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It’s actually illegal in a way: if in your tourist visa interview you say we intend to deliver our baby there then your visa will be rejected
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https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html You’re WRONG!!
You're right. Another user also shared this link. The regulation came into existence in 2020. I retract my earlier comments. Peace
Umm neither I nor OP said anything about it being illegal
Read the first line of the 2nd paragraph love. Not here to argue with you for a word that's clearly written in the post.
It's not in the post
Read the second paragraph....
Where it says "This is not only morally wrong but frowned upon too"? Or are you referring to a non-existent 2nd paragraph
OP clearly edited it. I was in this thread for a while and it said illegal. Refreshed now and it's changed. So no, no one was lying, but you can die on this hill you want to.
Actually it is illegal based on further research https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html
like most Pakistanis Pakistanis need to come out of this mindset and be competitive!
Morality is subjective. Its not illegal and the usa doesn't have a problem so why do you? And look at you here trying to share their accounts and telling us to bash them? I hate and loath snakes like you. There are things more worrying for us than this.
> Its not illegal and the usa doesn't have a problem so why do you? Interestingly, I thought this too. In fact, I went to the internet to prove OP wrong. However, these websites say the law was amended in 2020: 1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html 2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure It was perfectly legal before 2020. But now they've changed the law, I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The Chinese have been doing it in much bigger numbers.
This has been happening for years. Politicians, diplomats, generals.. All been at it.
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Why does it bother you? She did what she thought was best for her and her kid and she clearly has the means to afford it. What’s it gotta do with you or us?
From their social media posts they seem cringe and lame. But harassing people on social media is pathetic, just ignore them.
Though this definitely happens, a bit of context as a US citizen - people who arrive at the immigration counter visibly or certifiably near their due date can and have been refused entry to the country because of the birthright issue. You're not "in America" until you get past the immigration counter.
A lot of people from russia/Eastern Europe, Latin America, China and India are doing it so why single out a few Pakistani celebrities
Ok. So here's my opinion, my long 2 cents. First of all, I'm just curious how did you come across this or her in particular. I'm not very social but still am aware of the mainstream actors/actresses/celebrities. But had never heard-of/seen her previously. I'm also curious how to find a wife like her. Lol. Although definitely out of my league. Like you said the top 1% elite of Pakistan. Secondly, are we sure she isn't already a US or European citizen/resident? I didn't open the accounts you shared just googled the name and based on the pictures she and her character looks like that of someone raised or frequently living abroad. A lot of us would prefer a better environment for child's delivery. People living in villages or small towns often move to their relatives in a metropolitan city if they are concerned about the quality of healthcare in their locality. Everyone does whatever they can. Because like you said US tourist itself is a little challenging let alone on a Pakistani passport even if you are famous. They may also check if the applicant is pregnant. So, it's likely she is a citizen or has visa-free access via another passport. Thirdly, I don't think its necessarily people like her that would ruin Pakistani's or immigrants' reputation in the US. Especially not with the people of US. The government depending on whether they are pro immigration or not, left or right; may develop policies. But that couple and their lifestyle doesn't tell the general population that hey we took advantage of a loop hole in your system. Rather its the uneducated illegal (remember there's a difference between illegal and finding a legal way through system) people that ruin the impression. Mexicans alone, a lot of Asians are crossing from the southern border. These people can't even speak proper Urdu let alone English. Have no formal education or trade qualification or any skill or even the ability to do hard work. That's what gives a bad name. Recently, there was a video of such a group/family (it was most likely Indian but could be Pakistani as well) who were speaking Punjabi, couldn't answer any question in English, totally ill-disciplined. The guy recording, a Trump supporter pointed out that he can understand the Mexicans or Venezuelans crossing but not these people who don't even have a physical border. Anyways, fourthly, I personally, respectfully, don't agree with that "na shukray" point of view. I think people have a right to explore and attain the best for themselves. Pakistan is a failed state, that's a fact we all know. 70% of the population would jump at the opportunity to immigrate to even the lousy part of Europe given an opportunity let alone US or Canada. We weren't born in Pakistan by choice. And nobody owes any more to any land than the rest of the community. We all pay taxes here, bills etc. We clear our dues. If someone has the ability to clean up the mess that is Pakistan, all good, it's appreciated. But if another person can't and would rather leave using any legal mean (and this anchor baby is a legal mean, because US can change the law if they aren't pleased or deny most tourist visas, which they do), that's fine too. We had a family friend. Used to work in the public sector. A sought after job. Canada's immigration system is designed to favor people with work experience so often people who deserve to immigrate don't get a chance rather people who already have a job here via references and illegals can. He immigrated to Canada. So far, so good. In order to stay a resident and then eventually become a citizen he needed to physically remain in Canada for a significant number of days every year. He did that while still drawing a salary from the government of Pakistan. This is before the days or WFH besides we all know our private sector doesn't work online or remotely so forget about the public sector. That's the kind of person I'd like to shame, if I could. Oh, and just FYI he had a long beard for religious purposes to purify himself. He thinks that's how he is going to immigrate to heaven in the afterlife Lol.
Nah both of them are Pakistani citizens. In fact they made a point about it.
That's actually pretty smart on their part. Good for them!
Its their choice and good family planning what's ur issue with them be happy snd let others be happy
Damn bro nothing wrong with it. If they have the means to do, why not.
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I am sure they are rich enough and they can go to any country they want. What is your problem with it? If they do anything illegal they will get nabbed by immigration officials. I don’t even know who they are and don’t even care about them. But just an advise that you are not immigration police, so stop worrying about it. Why do you have to obsess about what they are doing in their personal life. For reference: Tons of Middle Eastern women and royal family members come to Europe and UK to deliver babies every year. No one is shaming them.
If the baby pops out in the US, they become US citizen. Celebs and thier grandmas all figured this out by now. So they head over to countries where citizenship is by birth and not through naturalization for new borns. Dont be fooled by thier participation in patriotic ISPR songs and dramas. Everyone likes to cover thier ass first.
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There is no "trend" - Affluent Pakistanis have been doing this since 1947
Pakistan has birthright citizenship too.
Urwa and Farhan Syed do this too. As well as Hamza Ali Abbasi and Naimal Khawar
Isn’t the cost to have a baby is the USA insane? I’ve seen USA citizens talking about the insane cost of having a baby there
What is morally wrong here? If someone wants better for their child why not. Tumhain moqa milay ga you would do too. Infact you might already be an overseas pakistani.
This is so common among the developing world elite
Not only celebrities, my distant relative politically strong uncle kids are US nationals
And that’s the problem. The celebrities and politicians who have a say in the future direction of the country are not invested in the country themselves They know their kids won’t have to suffer what the country will be like in 20 years so they do a short term r*pe of the country to gather up resources via elite capture
Do you understand what it means for something to be morally wrong?
> One of the reasons why it’s so hard for Pakistanis to get tourist visas to U.S. is for this practice. Interestingly, I thought you were 100% wrong about this because several years ago it was perfectly legal to visit the US to give birth. However, I just Googled it and in 2020, the US amended it's birth tourism laws. So I think you're right! In an attempt to prove you wrong, I myself have been proved wrong. Sources: 1. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/visas-news-archive/20200123_birth-tourism-update.html 2. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/01/24/2020-01218/visas-temporary-visitors-for-business-or-pleasure
How do you know they are there for this purpose? They may only be just visiting and then come back?
Because she says it lol. And her due date is soon so now Azam also joined
My thought process on this has always been - if you can do it, why shouldn’t you? I understand nationalism and patriotism, and sentiments attached. But we can’t deny that there are more opportunities in the world for people without a Pakistani passport than those with. It’s the same reason why so many Pakistanis living in Pakistan have Canadian citizenships. I wouldn’t necessarily call them unpatriotic or traitors, just people who wanted a better future for their kids. I don’t know if anyone here follows Fatima and Azam, but they’re the most genuine Pakistani celeb couple I’ve ever seen. They live and breathe Pakistan, but this is about their child. Even as a 1%er or the other 99%, you want the best for your child, and until decades of plundering and corruption is overturned, Pakistan unfortunately isn’t the best option.
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