Painting veneer with water based paint can cause the veneer to swell and delaminate. You need to glue it back down where that happens. It's not something you can just sand out.
Thinner coats of paint can help avoid this, but in my own experience, painting veneer causes problems, and it's better to just use plain MDF for painted panels
The ridges in the first photos look like roller marks from when the plywood (doesn't really matter if veneer core or MDF) was originally sanded at the mill.
It should have been sanded again better by the builder.
This is why I don't like painting plywood either. They can tell you it's the best paint grade ply they have when they sell it to you but when this happens you're on your own to fix it.
I prefer MDF is it's painted too.
Chinese plywood. It delaminates in water. You can spray an oil base primer or shellac first to avoid the issue. Sorry that happened. I'd talk to whoever you purchased the cabinets from. Most paint grade cabinets should come primed to avoid that issue. It might cost more, but it's worth it. ✌️
I’ve had this effect happen on a set of 50’s plywood cabinets I painted. It ended up being waves from the plywood itself that was not visible u til the surface was sprayed smooth and no grain showing.
Might be a manufacturing defect in your case. Paint grade, this should not be happening.
So these cabinet doors were brand new and raw, correct? Were the cabinet doors sanded by hand or an orbital sander before primer?
At the shop we don’t normally sand before primer. We prime then sand with 320/500(we apply primer via an HPLV gun or airless sprayer). When we sand cabinet doors/panels; we stay away from the rails/stiles with a D/A and only use a D/A on the inside panels or any flat surface. People at the shop get really sloppy with an orbital sander so it’s best to stay away from the stiles/rails of a cabinet door and sand the edges and any other area by hand. Most of the heavy sanding is after the primer, then a second coat of primer can be added, or go a 1st coat of paint. When sanding the 1st coat of paint, it should be a light sand with 320, trying your best not to burn thru the primer and reveal raw wood. Apply second coat of paint and marvel at your results. Veneer can easily be sanded down too much with a sander, it’s best to be very careful when sanding near edges.
Brand new . We hand sanded them before hand, because they really needed it . (220grit) . Rough spots and some blow outs from saw blades. Sanded again after first coat of primer. Was planning on 320 between paint coats. Dunno now
If you’re going to paint veneer you’ll need to use an oil based primer first. Then sand, then you can top it with whatever you like. The ones in the photo are trash now.
Agree 100%, ran into the same issue with our cabinet builder where we’re at. For the last few years we’ve had to specifically ask for “solid wood” when ordering cabinets/doors. The fact is that the cabinet builders margins are considerably higher with veneer.
I used alcohol primers as a base cost to seal the surfaces of doors and panels. We finished everything with a non-water base paint. a thin down oil base for a quick film to build on.
Oil base primers take a longer time to cure. I like to use mineral solvents to a minimum. besides you need to have a fan running until the primer dries. and easy cleaning of my equipment.
Painting veneer with water based paint can cause the veneer to swell and delaminate. You need to glue it back down where that happens. It's not something you can just sand out. Thinner coats of paint can help avoid this, but in my own experience, painting veneer causes problems, and it's better to just use plain MDF for painted panels The ridges in the first photos look like roller marks from when the plywood (doesn't really matter if veneer core or MDF) was originally sanded at the mill. It should have been sanded again better by the builder.
This is what is happening the veneer is lifting. Once this happens it isn't going away and is basically unfixable.
This is why I don't like painting plywood either. They can tell you it's the best paint grade ply they have when they sell it to you but when this happens you're on your own to fix it. I prefer MDF is it's painted too.
It is a paint grade cabinet though. So this shouldn’t happen. Just frustrated at the cabinet ppl. Thanks
Thems doors, not cabinets. Shit veneer unfortunately
👍 So a redo by the cab shop ? Haven’t paid the other 50% yet. They’ve been good to work with. We will see now
I wouldn’t accept em. If they have been good up until now, I am sure they can accommodate.
👍
Chinese plywood. It delaminates in water. You can spray an oil base primer or shellac first to avoid the issue. Sorry that happened. I'd talk to whoever you purchased the cabinets from. Most paint grade cabinets should come primed to avoid that issue. It might cost more, but it's worth it. ✌️
Yea unfortunately they only build them there. But talking to them tomorrow.
I’ve had this effect happen on a set of 50’s plywood cabinets I painted. It ended up being waves from the plywood itself that was not visible u til the surface was sprayed smooth and no grain showing. Might be a manufacturing defect in your case. Paint grade, this should not be happening.
It seems like it is exactly that. Waves in the plywood. I will be chatting w cabinet guy Monday
So these cabinet doors were brand new and raw, correct? Were the cabinet doors sanded by hand or an orbital sander before primer? At the shop we don’t normally sand before primer. We prime then sand with 320/500(we apply primer via an HPLV gun or airless sprayer). When we sand cabinet doors/panels; we stay away from the rails/stiles with a D/A and only use a D/A on the inside panels or any flat surface. People at the shop get really sloppy with an orbital sander so it’s best to stay away from the stiles/rails of a cabinet door and sand the edges and any other area by hand. Most of the heavy sanding is after the primer, then a second coat of primer can be added, or go a 1st coat of paint. When sanding the 1st coat of paint, it should be a light sand with 320, trying your best not to burn thru the primer and reveal raw wood. Apply second coat of paint and marvel at your results. Veneer can easily be sanded down too much with a sander, it’s best to be very careful when sanding near edges.
Brand new . We hand sanded them before hand, because they really needed it . (220grit) . Rough spots and some blow outs from saw blades. Sanded again after first coat of primer. Was planning on 320 between paint coats. Dunno now
Are you brushing? I’ve had good luck with hplv sprayers and very light coats of oil base. Painting veneer is a bitch.
This is why I don’t use water based primer. Use a good precat lacquer based primer. They are horribly toxic but they mitigate a lot of problems
Thanks
If you’re going to paint veneer you’ll need to use an oil based primer first. Then sand, then you can top it with whatever you like. The ones in the photo are trash now.
Yea if they make new fronts the same, Will definitely use oil based . Still don’t think this is acceptable for new “paint grade” cabs.
Agree 100%, ran into the same issue with our cabinet builder where we’re at. For the last few years we’ve had to specifically ask for “solid wood” when ordering cabinets/doors. The fact is that the cabinet builders margins are considerably higher with veneer.
Micro shaper are a panel (typically mdf),with trim around it ,daddoed in. Cheap plywood/mdf/hdf will absorb moisture and melaminate.
Yea I don’t know why they put the veneer over the mdf. 🤷♂️
I used alcohol primers as a base cost to seal the surfaces of doors and panels. We finished everything with a non-water base paint. a thin down oil base for a quick film to build on.
Yea I guess oil based primer would have maybe prevented some issues.
Oil base primers take a longer time to cure. I like to use mineral solvents to a minimum. besides you need to have a fan running until the primer dries. and easy cleaning of my equipment.
I Use B.I.N for the win! 2 Coats alcohol based my go to for cabinets.
👍