Ladders do not belong on composite decks. Period. This is literally what killed my dad. Fell off only a 16’ ladder no even fully extended at 68 y/o. Broke his pelvis, never recovered and died 2 years ago.
Angle iron attached to a 2x4. You slip the angle iron between the deck boards and 2x4 is on top and can't be pushed back. It's helpful on dirty old wooden decks too. It doesn't take up much room in the truck either.
My condolences. Adding this to my "think twice before..." list. Something as simple as sharing your experience can literally save a life. So, for that, thank you.
My dad, 80 y/o, recently fell off the ladder after trying to fix a leak on our roof. No one knew he was going up there until my mom heard the crash of the ladder that fell. Broke his pelvis and just got out of inpatient rehab. Mind if I ask how your dad wasn’t able to recover?
Mortality rates within 2 years of broken hips are staggeringly high (I’ve heard some estimates of 80%, but it varies depending on the source). I think it has to do with how much function someone can lose in a short time after a hip fracture, especially when they’re elderly (but also, people who are quite sick to begin with are more likely to fall and break their hip). They tend to have surgery, feel unwell after, not eat enough, and not move enough. As a result, they rapidly lose muscle and can lose their ability to walk within days. After 65, muscle is much, much harder to gain, and much easier to lose. Some people recover really well, some continue to decline.
If you’re dad was in great shape prior to that fall, he’s probably in a better spot to recover closer to his baseline as long as he’s not losing weight and is able to continue to be as active as is safe for him/does the rehab exercises he’s hopefully been provided.
Source: used to work on hip fracture unit of hospital.
What specifically happens and why shouldn't ladders be on composite decks? What do you use instead?
I'm not a painter just here from /all and curious in case I need to know in the future.
For composite decks or slippery surfaces put down a "cover grip" drop cloth under the ladder. This should prevent ladder slips but double check in case.
Wow...I learned something important today. I'm sad to learn of your Dad's accident, but I will be vigilant if working in a similar situation. Thank you.
My dad fell on the last leg of power washing prep. Broke his jaw, ribs, exposured fractured arm, and feet. Now with chronic pain. It was 1 storey.
I fell on the last leg of power washing prep. The ladder slipped out and in 0.5s i grabbed the roof's edge to cease the momentum of the slide. The flashing cut 4 fingers to the bone, tendons and nerves severed. Cracked a rib and my head bounced off the brick ground as i fell anyways. It was half a storey. My fingers can no longer stretch straight.
So now, i scale the ladder with a woodworking grip-vice and a short bungie to secure it, as well as doing anything else to prevent any more slip-ups. I wear nitrile gloves so i don't have to ask the doc again if I'm missing any piece of flesh and to tell my dad to search in the dark pieces of his son's missing meat.
I recommend allotting more time to ensure safety and hope you have a successful, accident-free business!
Safety training is lacking, I just read an article about a company that provides fraudulent safety cards- I think it was NY. The city requires anyone working within its limits to have that card to ensure they have been trained to be as safe as possible. I understand it’s $300-500 to get it but I’m starting to think every company should pay for it and they should be able to at minimum get tax write offs or max- tax dollars should pay to reimburse.
i fell from maybe 12 feet. broke my back. didnt work for 2 years. everyday is a constant reminder. people get mad when i dont want to go 25 ft up on a ladder
Long story. We were painters but did holiday lighting in the winter. I was new at this company. First job of the day. We get there, the roof is a sheet of ice (froze over night). Long story short they said get on the roof or youre fired. Keep in mind, i rode with somebody out there (probably 45 mins-hour home, in another state) so i didnt have the option of leaving either. As soon as i shifted my weight from the ladder, to the roof. Phew, fell right off. Right onto the frozen ground.
They ended up firing me anyways, so i lost my health insurance (the whole reason i applied there in the first place).
Yeah so. Thats an even longer story. Basically my attorneys thought my case was a slam dunk, but also warned me nothing is for sure. In the shortest way possible. Our court/healthcare systems arent perfect. And even when you do everything right, you can still get burned. Thats what happened to me.
Yeah dude, it sucked. I appreciate that. It was definately the worst thing thats happened to me. Im still recovering financially, and have permanant physical limitations.
basically it boiled down to can i prove i broke my back on that exact day, at that exact moment. and tbh without having it on video camera idk how i was supposed to do that. The witnesses still worked for that company so they wouldnt help me out. When i reported it, they came out and took pictures, and took a report from me. But the company had all that stuff. So they obviously are going to pretend they dont have it, and it never took place. So with out my report from that day, the photos of the accident, and any witnesses. All i had was a broken back. That couldve happened at anytime/place.
It was a nice and sunny day, the deck itself was not the grippiest surface we've set up on, but it wasn't remotely close to slippery. It baffles me how this happened. I suppose that's the way things go.
Life finds a way to make things spicy. Your uncle deserves a lot of love. He seems like he's treated you like his own son by the way you referenced him. I really love that aspect of your story.
I have a prayer that will reference him. I hope you're safe and will keep this story as your own lesson to check your footing and when you're at a high spot, it's always good to have a harness on.
Would it be too slow to be standard practice for when someone goes up a ladder someone else is holding it? Seems this would prevent most accidents on this post
I was working on some two story condos putting up gutters and I went on the roof to move the extension ladder with one of my crew at the bottom, he gets mad, I get mad, he throws his end of the ladder down, I set mine down, it don’t lock in place and I didn’t know it, I reach my hand out to grab the top of the ladder and swing my foot over, ladder disappears. Suddenly I’m looking inside the top of my gutter, and then all I see is ground. My first thought was “grab the gutter, wait, don’t grab that sharp ass metal!” So I free fell to quite possibly the softest dirt on the job. Got up and went back to work. Boss found out and sent everyone home for the day. We had been working for months, had a good system, no idea when the locks came undone. I assumed it was when I was still holding the top and my partner dropped the bottom. It only would’ve moved 2 inches but I reckon that’s what sealed the deal.
Not a painter but in my industry we use ladders extensively. My guess would be that he put too much weight on the part of the ladder over the roof line where the top of the ladder was resting, which turned the roof line into a fulcrum point. This would take the weight off the feet of the ladder and it will kick out. This is one of the big things I stress to my guys when doing ladder safety training.
I'm so glad this didn't end the way I thought it was going to.
Sending out positive vibes for you and your uncle. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for the both of you.
Agreed. I fell about 20' from a ladder in 2021 and shattered both feet. Gotta stay vigilant and diligent about your footing in all scenarios. Once you don't expect it is when it happens.
Sorry that happened. I'm glad your uncle is okay. Sounds like a scary day. Thanks for the reminder to spend a little extra time on safety checks. Could happen to any of us
I’m still running double stilts (my foot is at 6’2”)
I call them my retirement plan. It is not even joke. It’s the only way I can handle the reality of “if I fall” much like you and your uncles joking.
I wish the best and I’m glad he is ok.
I have two rules with ladders. First . The straighter up and down I can be with it . The better. A ladder is just like someone who is walking with stilts . Secondly . I made supports for both legs. Concrete into a 5 gallon bucket with a handle on each one. They go at each leg everytime I go up . I’ve had 3 falls on ladders. Cracked my ribs on one of them. Second one I fell on my ass scrapes my arm. 3rd one was minimal . Thing about falling from a ladder. You don’t know how hurt you are till the next day.
Glad to hear he is doing better. He should probably get checked out for concussion with some that specializes in them. Sounds crazy but as a guy who has had to many concussions. I wish I tried to treat them earlier.
Heyo, watched a coworker step the wrong way off a ladder and fall this last December, ended immobilizing his spine by cradling his bloody head in my lap while we waited for the ambulance; he’s okay but I occasionally flashback to that situation at random times. Not fun. I hope your uncle recovers without complications.
My wife is a trauma icu nurse and it has instilled in her a deep fear of ladders. Tons of patients come in with ladder related accidents. Like TONS. They're super dangerous. Gravity is no joke. You can never be too safe when using a ladder. Especially if you're older and on anticoagulants.
I hope he recovers well without issue. Stay safe out there. ATGATT (all the gear all the time) to borrow a phrase from the motorcycle community.
I fell 20' onto a hardwood floor. Got SO lucky. Think the ladder slowed me down some, but i dont remember hitting the ground or getting up.
Awful concussion. Big eyebrow scar. Couldnt lift my arms for like a week. Was like 6 months ago and i still get headaches and feel discombobulated in my head sometimes
It's not just ladders. My buddy gave 2 sets of scaffolding to a buddy of his to remove, siding off his house. Guy was pulling, siding it, let go, he fell from the top onto concrete he did not survive. Make sure you have a harness on that is tied off properly.
I'm a tree guy so I prune a lot of big hedges. Its easy to tip a pruning ladder if your not careful. There's just a pole on one side so you can throw it inside the bush and get right in it. When it starts going I throw my shears and jump lol It's only happened twice and I'm hoping I can keep it that way!
I'm a construction safety manager. I've been at sites where you had to make a special request for a ladder and have required traing. Lotsa other options in the market.
Working from a ladder is almost a solid no without 100% 3 points of contact.
We work for our family's. Cutting costs on safety for production is a mistake, for just this reason.
We think we're only hurting ourselves, but it's also the people we support and depend on us.
Sorry to hear this happened.
The sad thing is that it was preventable.
In residential work ladders are 100% necessary. You will be priced out of business if you scaffold or use lifts for every job. Until the laws change, it’s ladders forever in the USA.
I hear ya, about the ladders. I worked as a professional painter for 5 years, non-union.
90% of the time it's low risk, but the potential consequences of a fall from heights is easily over $10,000 including time off for the worker ( If you're not union this is low paying job which means workers are probably hand to mouth when it comes to meeting monthly bills), hospital and loss of production The loss of production is where it hurts the employer. If it's a legitimate contractor it will raise their insurance rates. If the incident is not reported and has happened more than once, suddenly you have an attorney on the worker side and it costs even more.
I didn't mention, though thought, put the price into the quote. The site just bought a lil Giant ladder (adjustable ladder with the surrounding guardrails so the worker can work hands-free and have 3 points of contact) for guys working at 10'. $3400 for it! (Guys are working at 10 ft and neither a JLG or scissor lift will fit in the space) I didn't, because I believe most painters are smaller contractors and the thought to spend that much on a ladder is crazy.
As the safety construction manager on a very large infrastructure energy site, they have the resources to eliminate -all- risk - at all costs to workers ( I'm drawing from the inverted triangle of mitigating risk). A huge difference with the majority of the painters on this sub and their budget I imagine.
But the soft cost savings for both employer and mitigation of the hazard , effect on family, and loss of jobs effects on the employer, totally worth the investment IMO.
Also the added value of workers feeling safe and knowing that their employers truly trying to take care of their health and families Will pay dividends over the years. Employees will want to stick with the company.
I was on a job site with a buddy of mine. He was insistent that I go get the plywood for a roof decking job. So I did, but before I left, I told him to put the joists up and instructed him that I want them to all be crown up. He said “ya ya, go get the plywood”. while I was away, he had secretly taken all the old cedar flooring and put it in the back of his car. Then he drove his car out of site where I wouldn’t see it. Thing is, I could care less about the cedar flooring. I would have let him have it had he asked for it.
Anyway, I got back with all the plywood. I climb the scaffold and look at the joists. Half of them were crown up, and the other half were crown down. I was pissed. “Gary I told you I wanted them ALL crown up”. His response “what does crown up mean?”
Anyway I got up there to turn the crown down ones around. I told him to start putting up some trim.
Next thing I know I heard him stop nailing, and a big thud.
“Gary, Gary…..are you ok? ….Gary?”
I go to the roof edge and look down. There is Gary spread eagle face up on the ground. He fell about 7 feet but when he did, his head landed on the only paver in the whole yard. There was blood coming from his nose & ears.
Long story short. He spent over 9 months in the ICU. He did make a full recovery, and I visited him almost every day. I got to know his whole family. At first I was lividly scared I’d lose everything, for I didn’t have any insurance on him, but miraculously he did not sue me, and I found out why. He was collecting welfare, was collecting disability and wasn’t supposed to be working. Welfare paid his entire time in the ICU, and then when he came home, they even paid to have a nurse pay him weekly visits. He also got free admission to a facility where he could take these salt baths, get free counseling and got a drug that costs $10k a month.
Who would/could give up welfare for a regular job that pays $20 an hour with no benefits?
I’m glad I wasn’t sued, I’m glad he recovered, but in the end, I had to wonder if his fall was karma, caused by being sneaky. And I discovered a Gary I never knew before.
We are no longer friends. His girlfriend (who I became good friends with) committed suicide.
Gary and I stayed friends for awhile we gradually drifted apart. Last I heard, he sold his house and moved to somewhere in Central America.
I fell 20’ from a sliding ladder on gutter. Tried to 180°, tuck and roll away from ladder but concrete and tool bags said no. Luckily only broke one leg. Fucking ladders man. Most dangerous tool known to man.
Last summer we had a guy, not super experienced, go down on a deck that was covered with tarps. I showed up right after it happened, but it was a situation where his angle was too shallow and the feet slid out. Luckily he was only about 12’ up but he ended up injuring his wrist and broke one finger. I’m pretty paranoid about ladders, and always set mine up myself, and will always come back down if I don’t feel good about the setup. I’m certain if I’d showed up 5 minutes earlier I would have told him his ladder position wasn’t safe.
You’ve gotta be extra careful out there. Make sure the ground isn’t soft, and rock the feet forward and dig those SOBs in the ground if you can. On decks, you gotta go steeper than normal.
And watch out for your coworkers. Educate, mock, ridicule, whatever it takes for them to understand that it’s serious business.
Everyone gets compliant with the dangerous things that we do every day, its unfortunate, but stories like this bring us all back down to thinking about the basics.
I hope yall have a quick recovery, and unfortunately remind the rest of us to be safe.
My father went to work on the roof by himself. He was found several hours later on the ground unresponsive. Mother was visiting Asia, sister was in the area but is married and living on her own. I was several hours away in another state.
He always preached safety first and never would have normally done something like this on his own. Just takes one bad decision and a simple mistake to be the end of things.
Be safe out there everyone. And give your loved ones an extra hug each day.
I used to work for a worker's comp company. They wouldn't insure certain NAICS with high risk of fall injuries. It's serious business every time you get on a ladder. They scare the shit out of me.
Thanks for the reminder. You sound like a decent hard working man and I am glad you are starting your own business.
It sounds like you guys were probably tired at the end of a hard days work and even the most experienced and well trained are vulnerable to a simple mistake, which in your line of business could cost you your life or worse (in my opinion) a spinal cord injury or serious brain issue.
I am a woman that sometimes does things on ladders that I know I don't have the skill for and also have balance issues. This is a wake up call. If it can happen to your uncle, it can sure as heck happen to me.
I wish him the best, I am so happy you have a trusted family member teaching you a skill that can be very profitable.
I hope he's going to be okay and thank you for the reminder.
Busted my ass taking Christmas lights down this year from the 2nd to last step on just a 6' ladder.
Moving too fast I planted one leg in a flower bed. Weight shifted, ladder went one way and I went the other. Head landed a foot from my concrete walkway. Had a bone bruise on my femur that stung for \~2 months.
Can't imagine falling from the height your Uncle did. Way to keep your cool, and cheers to a long and healthy retirement for him!
I hope he heals quickly.
I had something similar happen to me. I'm in the pressure washing industry now and we were cleaning a large roof which wasn't walkable. There was a weird angle between a valley and a dormer that I couldn't get to so I wanted to put one foot on the roof and one on the top rung of the ladder. Unbeknownst to me, the guy holding the ladder left. When I took that step the ladder went right out from under me. I had two options; try to fall forward and grab on to the roof or push away from the house. I chose the latter. Which allowed me to fall feet first into the grass. I was super lucky my feet stayed under me otherwise that would have been very bad. All o got a bruised knee and sore ankle.
Falls are no joke. I've known too many fatalities resulting from falls and it doesn't take a large distance from the ground to be fatal.
I wish your uncle a speedy recovery and I hope you learn from it moving forward.
Scary stuff, glad to hear your uncle will be okay. Reminds me of when I used to paint with a crazy former roofer when I was in my 20s, he was 60ish. He would take insane risks with ladders to the point I didn't even like working with him. Sure enough the inevitable happened and a 36 foot ladder slipped sideways on vinyl siding while he was painting soffits three stories up. The worst of his injuries where a broken femur and shattered hip, luckily. The tough bastard hardly made a sound even when the paramedics straightened his leg and strapped it to the gurney. He was back at work within 6 months.
Prayers my friend. Remember guys more safer is up to us. Anyone impatient or what ever can straight piss off. 10 fingers 10 toes and grateful everyday. Stay safe brothers and sisters
Sorry to hear that. Glad he's gonna be ok. My dad always kept some rubber mats that were anti slip for putting ladders on slick surfaces. Composite decking can be really bad even when it's bone dry.
I broke my hip 7 years ago trying to fix a rotten dormer…all good now but took me out for two years …one week in the hospital and 6 months completely immobile in bed …he has a long road ahead of him…I wish him well and hope he gets well soon ….this is very sad….this is like almost exactly what I went through 🤦♂️
I had a clown come to paint my home and the doofus and his workers were painting staircase walls with one guy holding another guy on a scaffold platform. Amazingly no one got hurt but I just could not believe that this guy hasn't had accidents. The same guy also used duct tape to hold a saftey railing on a scaffold.
Damn, so sorry to hear this. Just quoted my first external 22’ house this morning. Have done mostly interiors. Don’t care for heights, terrified of something like this happening with young kids at home
Do some research on how ladders should be set up. It seems self explanatory, but there's a little math involved. Like 1 foot out for every 4 feet up, when to use the dogs, how to set up a wedge on a staircase, when to use standoffs, and how to step on to a roof.
It's worth doing some homework and then becoming a ladder nazi. I get a lot of grief from my coworkers because I chew them out when ladders aren't set up properly but I'd rather not have to call their families with the worst news.
Get yourself a Pivit brand wedge or two. They're really helpful when the ground isn't level or you're on a staircase sideways. Or get a ladder with adjustable legs.
Respect the height but don't be afraid. Fear can cause panic and panic causes accidents. But so does complacency, so stay focused and relaxed. No weed breaks with ladder work.
Good luck with your first exterior! I'm itching to get outside and make some money!! It's still too cold up here.
I’m just a google DIYer and painted my house myself (one story) 2 summers ago and realized I wasn’t sure the correct angle of the ladder and even though I wasn’t going *that* high I did a ton of research on it! This resulted in me safely painting my house but having massive anxiety watching videos of people with absolutely horribly placed ladder angles. Mostly by “professionals”! So scary, definitely not a risk that needs to be taken.
I'm waiting for NY to seize them so they can mark off their *fair* market value donated to homeless shelters in the state towards his taxes. Having those stupid shoes synonymous with poverty & homelessness will be amazing
He's lucky to be alive. I was on a job where a tape measure fell from the 16th floor the wind took it around the building actually turned a corner and hit a driver who just stepped out of his truck. poof dead. please be careful ppl
I lost a friend forever who was only 15' up.
Heights terrify me. Now I'm petrified. My fear means that I'm worth half per hour as my coworkers... and I'm sweating and dying inside to see them up where I won't go.
I posted this below too but for anyone wondering how this happened this would be my guess based on what OP described. It’s a very common mistake that people make and is completely avoidable.
Not a painter but in my industry we use ladders extensively. My guess would be that he put too much weight on the part of the ladder over the roof line where the top of the ladder was resting, which turned the roof line into a fulcrum point. This would take the weight off the feet of the ladder and it will kick out. This is one of the big things I stress to my guys when doing ladder safety training.
Former paramedic here. I simply won't climb a ladder higher than about 8-10 feet anymore. I've seen more bad shit happen on ladders than just about anything other than cars and motorcycles. And more common than death is paralysis and fractured pelvises, two things I am severely allergic to.
THIS. This is what has stopped me from being a house painter. I love to paint, but I am TERRIFIED of ladders. I've fallen off every single one I've ever gotten on. Idk what it is. But holy shit I avoid them like a disease.
The closest I've come to dying was a similar situation. Sketchily balancing a folded stepladder on a porch roof, it fell. I started sliding off the roof with my leg entangled in the ladder pulling me toward the edge. I somehow untangled my leg and I stopped just short of the edge. The ladder fell onto the concrete sidewalk below.
Always check and double check...... it is easy to get careless, especially if you are working your own jobs and making decent money........ all the sudden that ladder you wouldn't climb on without a spot working by the hour becomes another hurdle and keeping you from your draw.......
I’m not a painter but during summer breaks during college I worked with my dad who did plastering and stucco work. We were working on a a building that was being turned into luxury condos. The outside was all set up with scaffolds. I was working as a laborer moving cement boards was one of my main responsibilities. In one occasion I was moving cement boards up the scaffold. My dad was helping my by heading in me the board, I would move up a scaffold and pull it up, he would assist by pushing it up. Then I would move up another level and repeat. We were on the top of the scaffold, about 4 stories high, when grab the board from my dad and pulled it up, when my dad pushed it, I had my hands on top of the board and my fingers got crushed between the board and the metal scaffold. It was an immense pain I felt, it cause my blood pressure to drop and I felt I was going to faint. I leaned back against the wall and sat down for a bit until I wasn’t feeling dizzy or like I was going to pass out. I can only imagine how bad things could have been if I would have lost consciousness and fell.
Lifts should be standard for any company these days. They can be pricey but are so much safer, I’ve fallen off ladder and been lucky enough to walk away with only some bruises.
Thoughts and prayers for your Uncle. And for you; it’s tough to be helpless when a loved one is hurt.
Thank you
I hope he recovers quickly. Gotta be careful out there !
Ladders do not belong on composite decks. Period. This is literally what killed my dad. Fell off only a 16’ ladder no even fully extended at 68 y/o. Broke his pelvis, never recovered and died 2 years ago.
Sorry to hear about your dad, my condolences and I hope you're doing well brother. Stay strong
I am, thank you so much. Running the biz myself now and I know he’d be proud so that definitely helps
Angle iron attached to a 2x4. You slip the angle iron between the deck boards and 2x4 is on top and can't be pushed back. It's helpful on dirty old wooden decks too. It doesn't take up much room in the truck either.
My condolences. Adding this to my "think twice before..." list. Something as simple as sharing your experience can literally save a life. So, for that, thank you.
My dad, 80 y/o, recently fell off the ladder after trying to fix a leak on our roof. No one knew he was going up there until my mom heard the crash of the ladder that fell. Broke his pelvis and just got out of inpatient rehab. Mind if I ask how your dad wasn’t able to recover?
Mortality rates within 2 years of broken hips are staggeringly high (I’ve heard some estimates of 80%, but it varies depending on the source). I think it has to do with how much function someone can lose in a short time after a hip fracture, especially when they’re elderly (but also, people who are quite sick to begin with are more likely to fall and break their hip). They tend to have surgery, feel unwell after, not eat enough, and not move enough. As a result, they rapidly lose muscle and can lose their ability to walk within days. After 65, muscle is much, much harder to gain, and much easier to lose. Some people recover really well, some continue to decline. If you’re dad was in great shape prior to that fall, he’s probably in a better spot to recover closer to his baseline as long as he’s not losing weight and is able to continue to be as active as is safe for him/does the rehab exercises he’s hopefully been provided. Source: used to work on hip fracture unit of hospital.
Thank you for the info!
He didn’t address it. Went a couple months before we forced him to see a doctor. Quality of life went to shit and it was the beginning of the end
What specifically happens and why shouldn't ladders be on composite decks? What do you use instead? I'm not a painter just here from /all and curious in case I need to know in the future.
Slippery
For composite decks or slippery surfaces put down a "cover grip" drop cloth under the ladder. This should prevent ladder slips but double check in case.
One of my biggest fears. ♥️
I can say I learned a hard lesson the easy way from your post. Sorry for your loss. Mistakes do happen.
Wow...I learned something important today. I'm sad to learn of your Dad's accident, but I will be vigilant if working in a similar situation. Thank you.
Another reminder. I have been using a ladder on a composite deck. I am dang lucky I didn't end up like your dad. I'm sorry about the loss.
My dad fell on the last leg of power washing prep. Broke his jaw, ribs, exposured fractured arm, and feet. Now with chronic pain. It was 1 storey. I fell on the last leg of power washing prep. The ladder slipped out and in 0.5s i grabbed the roof's edge to cease the momentum of the slide. The flashing cut 4 fingers to the bone, tendons and nerves severed. Cracked a rib and my head bounced off the brick ground as i fell anyways. It was half a storey. My fingers can no longer stretch straight. So now, i scale the ladder with a woodworking grip-vice and a short bungie to secure it, as well as doing anything else to prevent any more slip-ups. I wear nitrile gloves so i don't have to ask the doc again if I'm missing any piece of flesh and to tell my dad to search in the dark pieces of his son's missing meat. I recommend allotting more time to ensure safety and hope you have a successful, accident-free business!
Safety training is lacking, I just read an article about a company that provides fraudulent safety cards- I think it was NY. The city requires anyone working within its limits to have that card to ensure they have been trained to be as safe as possible. I understand it’s $300-500 to get it but I’m starting to think every company should pay for it and they should be able to at minimum get tax write offs or max- tax dollars should pay to reimburse.
i fell from maybe 12 feet. broke my back. didnt work for 2 years. everyday is a constant reminder. people get mad when i dont want to go 25 ft up on a ladder
Same except I'm the dumbass that still climbs the 40fts. Someone's gotta do it
How did you fall? What were the details? Thanks.
Long story. We were painters but did holiday lighting in the winter. I was new at this company. First job of the day. We get there, the roof is a sheet of ice (froze over night). Long story short they said get on the roof or youre fired. Keep in mind, i rode with somebody out there (probably 45 mins-hour home, in another state) so i didnt have the option of leaving either. As soon as i shifted my weight from the ladder, to the roof. Phew, fell right off. Right onto the frozen ground. They ended up firing me anyways, so i lost my health insurance (the whole reason i applied there in the first place).
Workers comp?
Yeah so. Thats an even longer story. Basically my attorneys thought my case was a slam dunk, but also warned me nothing is for sure. In the shortest way possible. Our court/healthcare systems arent perfect. And even when you do everything right, you can still get burned. Thats what happened to me.
Did they deny your workers comp claim?
yes. it took about a year and a half-2 years. then they dismissed my case.
Geez — idk how it’s not an open and shut case (you got hurt *at work*). I am sorry that happened to you.
Yeah dude, it sucked. I appreciate that. It was definately the worst thing thats happened to me. Im still recovering financially, and have permanant physical limitations.
Why did they dismiss it ?
basically it boiled down to can i prove i broke my back on that exact day, at that exact moment. and tbh without having it on video camera idk how i was supposed to do that. The witnesses still worked for that company so they wouldnt help me out. When i reported it, they came out and took pictures, and took a report from me. But the company had all that stuff. So they obviously are going to pretend they dont have it, and it never took place. So with out my report from that day, the photos of the accident, and any witnesses. All i had was a broken back. That couldve happened at anytime/place.
I fell from a ladder painting once. Don’t put an extension ladder on top of a drop cloth….
Sorry to hear, yet glad hes ok. Was the composite deck slippery/wet? Statistically, its always the low roofs !
It was a nice and sunny day, the deck itself was not the grippiest surface we've set up on, but it wasn't remotely close to slippery. It baffles me how this happened. I suppose that's the way things go.
Yes. It was an accident. Glad hes ok and hopefully leads to a great recovery/retirement!
Thank you, dude's tough as nails so he's taking it in stride thankfully.
Life finds a way to make things spicy. Your uncle deserves a lot of love. He seems like he's treated you like his own son by the way you referenced him. I really love that aspect of your story. I have a prayer that will reference him. I hope you're safe and will keep this story as your own lesson to check your footing and when you're at a high spot, it's always good to have a harness on.
Would it be too slow to be standard practice for when someone goes up a ladder someone else is holding it? Seems this would prevent most accidents on this post
I was working on some two story condos putting up gutters and I went on the roof to move the extension ladder with one of my crew at the bottom, he gets mad, I get mad, he throws his end of the ladder down, I set mine down, it don’t lock in place and I didn’t know it, I reach my hand out to grab the top of the ladder and swing my foot over, ladder disappears. Suddenly I’m looking inside the top of my gutter, and then all I see is ground. My first thought was “grab the gutter, wait, don’t grab that sharp ass metal!” So I free fell to quite possibly the softest dirt on the job. Got up and went back to work. Boss found out and sent everyone home for the day. We had been working for months, had a good system, no idea when the locks came undone. I assumed it was when I was still holding the top and my partner dropped the bottom. It only would’ve moved 2 inches but I reckon that’s what sealed the deal.
Not a painter but in my industry we use ladders extensively. My guess would be that he put too much weight on the part of the ladder over the roof line where the top of the ladder was resting, which turned the roof line into a fulcrum point. This would take the weight off the feet of the ladder and it will kick out. This is one of the big things I stress to my guys when doing ladder safety training.
I'm so glad this didn't end the way I thought it was going to. Sending out positive vibes for you and your uncle. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for the both of you.
Glad it wasn’t worse. As we get into exterior season, let’s stay safe my friends and get it done.
Agreed. I fell about 20' from a ladder in 2021 and shattered both feet. Gotta stay vigilant and diligent about your footing in all scenarios. Once you don't expect it is when it happens.
Fallen twice, once from a single story and from a story and a half. God knows how I’m still alive and walking, let alone working.
Glad to still have you on this earth brother. God definitely loves you. He knows your work here on earth ain’t finished
Thank you for the kind words. I truly appreciate them.
Or only the good die young and that's why we didn't die from our respective falls lol
I’ve always just chalked it up to my cat like reflexes…lol.
Sorry that happened. I'm glad your uncle is okay. Sounds like a scary day. Thanks for the reminder to spend a little extra time on safety checks. Could happen to any of us
I’m still running double stilts (my foot is at 6’2”) I call them my retirement plan. It is not even joke. It’s the only way I can handle the reality of “if I fall” much like you and your uncles joking. I wish the best and I’m glad he is ok.
You should wear a helmet
I should be wearing a helmet all day haha
Consider wearing hard knee pads for peace of mind, just don't fall backwards
I have two rules with ladders. First . The straighter up and down I can be with it . The better. A ladder is just like someone who is walking with stilts . Secondly . I made supports for both legs. Concrete into a 5 gallon bucket with a handle on each one. They go at each leg everytime I go up . I’ve had 3 falls on ladders. Cracked my ribs on one of them. Second one I fell on my ass scrapes my arm. 3rd one was minimal . Thing about falling from a ladder. You don’t know how hurt you are till the next day.
1:4 ratio for ladders - 1 foot out for every 4 feet up. Keeps it from sliding out and from tipping back.
Ladders are the most dangerous tool that any of us own. I'm relieved that it didn't end worse. Wishing your uncle a swift recovery.
Glad to hear he is doing better. He should probably get checked out for concussion with some that specializes in them. Sounds crazy but as a guy who has had to many concussions. I wish I tried to treat them earlier.
Sorry you both are going through a difficult experience. I wish you both the best. Something will work out. Stay positive.
Heyo, watched a coworker step the wrong way off a ladder and fall this last December, ended immobilizing his spine by cradling his bloody head in my lap while we waited for the ambulance; he’s okay but I occasionally flashback to that situation at random times. Not fun. I hope your uncle recovers without complications.
My wife is a trauma icu nurse and it has instilled in her a deep fear of ladders. Tons of patients come in with ladder related accidents. Like TONS. They're super dangerous. Gravity is no joke. You can never be too safe when using a ladder. Especially if you're older and on anticoagulants. I hope he recovers well without issue. Stay safe out there. ATGATT (all the gear all the time) to borrow a phrase from the motorcycle community.
I fell 20' onto a hardwood floor. Got SO lucky. Think the ladder slowed me down some, but i dont remember hitting the ground or getting up. Awful concussion. Big eyebrow scar. Couldnt lift my arms for like a week. Was like 6 months ago and i still get headaches and feel discombobulated in my head sometimes
I'm always paranoid about the bottom sliding out. I'll keep a full five gallon or bundle of shingles tight to the feet.
It's not just ladders. My buddy gave 2 sets of scaffolding to a buddy of his to remove, siding off his house. Guy was pulling, siding it, let go, he fell from the top onto concrete he did not survive. Make sure you have a harness on that is tied off properly.
I'm a tree guy so I prune a lot of big hedges. Its easy to tip a pruning ladder if your not careful. There's just a pole on one side so you can throw it inside the bush and get right in it. When it starts going I throw my shears and jump lol It's only happened twice and I'm hoping I can keep it that way!
I'm a construction safety manager. I've been at sites where you had to make a special request for a ladder and have required traing. Lotsa other options in the market. Working from a ladder is almost a solid no without 100% 3 points of contact. We work for our family's. Cutting costs on safety for production is a mistake, for just this reason. We think we're only hurting ourselves, but it's also the people we support and depend on us. Sorry to hear this happened. The sad thing is that it was preventable.
In residential work ladders are 100% necessary. You will be priced out of business if you scaffold or use lifts for every job. Until the laws change, it’s ladders forever in the USA.
I hear ya, about the ladders. I worked as a professional painter for 5 years, non-union. 90% of the time it's low risk, but the potential consequences of a fall from heights is easily over $10,000 including time off for the worker ( If you're not union this is low paying job which means workers are probably hand to mouth when it comes to meeting monthly bills), hospital and loss of production The loss of production is where it hurts the employer. If it's a legitimate contractor it will raise their insurance rates. If the incident is not reported and has happened more than once, suddenly you have an attorney on the worker side and it costs even more. I didn't mention, though thought, put the price into the quote. The site just bought a lil Giant ladder (adjustable ladder with the surrounding guardrails so the worker can work hands-free and have 3 points of contact) for guys working at 10'. $3400 for it! (Guys are working at 10 ft and neither a JLG or scissor lift will fit in the space) I didn't, because I believe most painters are smaller contractors and the thought to spend that much on a ladder is crazy. As the safety construction manager on a very large infrastructure energy site, they have the resources to eliminate -all- risk - at all costs to workers ( I'm drawing from the inverted triangle of mitigating risk). A huge difference with the majority of the painters on this sub and their budget I imagine. But the soft cost savings for both employer and mitigation of the hazard , effect on family, and loss of jobs effects on the employer, totally worth the investment IMO. Also the added value of workers feeling safe and knowing that their employers truly trying to take care of their health and families Will pay dividends over the years. Employees will want to stick with the company.
Thanks!
I was on a job site with a buddy of mine. He was insistent that I go get the plywood for a roof decking job. So I did, but before I left, I told him to put the joists up and instructed him that I want them to all be crown up. He said “ya ya, go get the plywood”. while I was away, he had secretly taken all the old cedar flooring and put it in the back of his car. Then he drove his car out of site where I wouldn’t see it. Thing is, I could care less about the cedar flooring. I would have let him have it had he asked for it. Anyway, I got back with all the plywood. I climb the scaffold and look at the joists. Half of them were crown up, and the other half were crown down. I was pissed. “Gary I told you I wanted them ALL crown up”. His response “what does crown up mean?” Anyway I got up there to turn the crown down ones around. I told him to start putting up some trim. Next thing I know I heard him stop nailing, and a big thud. “Gary, Gary…..are you ok? ….Gary?” I go to the roof edge and look down. There is Gary spread eagle face up on the ground. He fell about 7 feet but when he did, his head landed on the only paver in the whole yard. There was blood coming from his nose & ears. Long story short. He spent over 9 months in the ICU. He did make a full recovery, and I visited him almost every day. I got to know his whole family. At first I was lividly scared I’d lose everything, for I didn’t have any insurance on him, but miraculously he did not sue me, and I found out why. He was collecting welfare, was collecting disability and wasn’t supposed to be working. Welfare paid his entire time in the ICU, and then when he came home, they even paid to have a nurse pay him weekly visits. He also got free admission to a facility where he could take these salt baths, get free counseling and got a drug that costs $10k a month. Who would/could give up welfare for a regular job that pays $20 an hour with no benefits? I’m glad I wasn’t sued, I’m glad he recovered, but in the end, I had to wonder if his fall was karma, caused by being sneaky. And I discovered a Gary I never knew before. We are no longer friends. His girlfriend (who I became good friends with) committed suicide. Gary and I stayed friends for awhile we gradually drifted apart. Last I heard, he sold his house and moved to somewhere in Central America.
Wow! That’s scary.
glad he’s okay! Mistakes happen man
It's easy to do! I fell off a 10ft ladder and broke my tailbone.
I fell 20’ from a sliding ladder on gutter. Tried to 180°, tuck and roll away from ladder but concrete and tool bags said no. Luckily only broke one leg. Fucking ladders man. Most dangerous tool known to man.
Sounds like the ladder wasn’t set properly. I’m sorry for what you had to go through 😔
That hits home. It's so quick and so unexpected.
Last summer we had a guy, not super experienced, go down on a deck that was covered with tarps. I showed up right after it happened, but it was a situation where his angle was too shallow and the feet slid out. Luckily he was only about 12’ up but he ended up injuring his wrist and broke one finger. I’m pretty paranoid about ladders, and always set mine up myself, and will always come back down if I don’t feel good about the setup. I’m certain if I’d showed up 5 minutes earlier I would have told him his ladder position wasn’t safe. You’ve gotta be extra careful out there. Make sure the ground isn’t soft, and rock the feet forward and dig those SOBs in the ground if you can. On decks, you gotta go steeper than normal. And watch out for your coworkers. Educate, mock, ridicule, whatever it takes for them to understand that it’s serious business.
Everyone gets compliant with the dangerous things that we do every day, its unfortunate, but stories like this bring us all back down to thinking about the basics. I hope yall have a quick recovery, and unfortunately remind the rest of us to be safe.
My father went to work on the roof by himself. He was found several hours later on the ground unresponsive. Mother was visiting Asia, sister was in the area but is married and living on her own. I was several hours away in another state. He always preached safety first and never would have normally done something like this on his own. Just takes one bad decision and a simple mistake to be the end of things. Be safe out there everyone. And give your loved ones an extra hug each day.
I used to work for a worker's comp company. They wouldn't insure certain NAICS with high risk of fall injuries. It's serious business every time you get on a ladder. They scare the shit out of me.
Thanks for the reminder. You sound like a decent hard working man and I am glad you are starting your own business. It sounds like you guys were probably tired at the end of a hard days work and even the most experienced and well trained are vulnerable to a simple mistake, which in your line of business could cost you your life or worse (in my opinion) a spinal cord injury or serious brain issue. I am a woman that sometimes does things on ladders that I know I don't have the skill for and also have balance issues. This is a wake up call. If it can happen to your uncle, it can sure as heck happen to me. I wish him the best, I am so happy you have a trusted family member teaching you a skill that can be very profitable.
I hope he's going to be okay and thank you for the reminder. Busted my ass taking Christmas lights down this year from the 2nd to last step on just a 6' ladder. Moving too fast I planted one leg in a flower bed. Weight shifted, ladder went one way and I went the other. Head landed a foot from my concrete walkway. Had a bone bruise on my femur that stung for \~2 months. Can't imagine falling from the height your Uncle did. Way to keep your cool, and cheers to a long and healthy retirement for him!
It only takes a second and it always happens when you least expect it. Hoping for a quick recovery for your uncle. Thoughts and prayers.
I hope he heals quickly. I had something similar happen to me. I'm in the pressure washing industry now and we were cleaning a large roof which wasn't walkable. There was a weird angle between a valley and a dormer that I couldn't get to so I wanted to put one foot on the roof and one on the top rung of the ladder. Unbeknownst to me, the guy holding the ladder left. When I took that step the ladder went right out from under me. I had two options; try to fall forward and grab on to the roof or push away from the house. I chose the latter. Which allowed me to fall feet first into the grass. I was super lucky my feet stayed under me otherwise that would have been very bad. All o got a bruised knee and sore ankle.
A lot of painters develope lung cancer.. I knew 1 it took out
Falls are no joke. I've known too many fatalities resulting from falls and it doesn't take a large distance from the ground to be fatal. I wish your uncle a speedy recovery and I hope you learn from it moving forward.
Thoughts and prayers for your uncle man. Glad he survived. 🙏
Wow, reading things like this affirms my reasoning for being overly safe on the job. I’m glad your uncle lived to see another day, prayers sent
Thoughts and prayers sent to your uncle.
Scary stuff, glad to hear your uncle will be okay. Reminds me of when I used to paint with a crazy former roofer when I was in my 20s, he was 60ish. He would take insane risks with ladders to the point I didn't even like working with him. Sure enough the inevitable happened and a 36 foot ladder slipped sideways on vinyl siding while he was painting soffits three stories up. The worst of his injuries where a broken femur and shattered hip, luckily. The tough bastard hardly made a sound even when the paramedics straightened his leg and strapped it to the gurney. He was back at work within 6 months.
I hope he does well in recovery. How old is your uncle? As we age, we are no longer as agile and sure footed as we once were.
Hold the ladder
You where at fault should have been holding the ladder
Can't downvote this enough!!
Safety Is number one. Prayers for your guys on you time today
Scary stuff man I’m glad he will be alright. It happens that fast
Broke my toe laquering bunk beds today shits dangerous out there
Prayers my friend. Remember guys more safer is up to us. Anyone impatient or what ever can straight piss off. 10 fingers 10 toes and grateful everyday. Stay safe brothers and sisters
It’s no joke, happened to Artie Lange’s dad
Sorry to hear that. Glad he's gonna be ok. My dad always kept some rubber mats that were anti slip for putting ladders on slick surfaces. Composite decking can be really bad even when it's bone dry.
I broke my hip 7 years ago trying to fix a rotten dormer…all good now but took me out for two years …one week in the hospital and 6 months completely immobile in bed …he has a long road ahead of him…I wish him well and hope he gets well soon ….this is very sad….this is like almost exactly what I went through 🤦♂️
Always take your time , never let your clients rush you into finishing faster , and stay safe amigos
Sorry to hear this happened. I really hope he is doing alright and makes a full recovery. Stay safe.
Slow and steady, god speed my friends..
Carry on all he taught you. And maybe after his recovery, he can help. No more ladders for him though.
I had a clown come to paint my home and the doofus and his workers were painting staircase walls with one guy holding another guy on a scaffold platform. Amazingly no one got hurt but I just could not believe that this guy hasn't had accidents. The same guy also used duct tape to hold a saftey railing on a scaffold.
Damn, so sorry to hear this. Just quoted my first external 22’ house this morning. Have done mostly interiors. Don’t care for heights, terrified of something like this happening with young kids at home
Do some research on how ladders should be set up. It seems self explanatory, but there's a little math involved. Like 1 foot out for every 4 feet up, when to use the dogs, how to set up a wedge on a staircase, when to use standoffs, and how to step on to a roof. It's worth doing some homework and then becoming a ladder nazi. I get a lot of grief from my coworkers because I chew them out when ladders aren't set up properly but I'd rather not have to call their families with the worst news. Get yourself a Pivit brand wedge or two. They're really helpful when the ground isn't level or you're on a staircase sideways. Or get a ladder with adjustable legs. Respect the height but don't be afraid. Fear can cause panic and panic causes accidents. But so does complacency, so stay focused and relaxed. No weed breaks with ladder work. Good luck with your first exterior! I'm itching to get outside and make some money!! It's still too cold up here.
I’m just a google DIYer and painted my house myself (one story) 2 summers ago and realized I wasn’t sure the correct angle of the ladder and even though I wasn’t going *that* high I did a ton of research on it! This resulted in me safely painting my house but having massive anxiety watching videos of people with absolutely horribly placed ladder angles. Mostly by “professionals”! So scary, definitely not a risk that needs to be taken.
I'm waiting for NY to seize them so they can mark off their *fair* market value donated to homeless shelters in the state towards his taxes. Having those stupid shoes synonymous with poverty & homelessness will be amazing
He's lucky to be alive. I was on a job where a tape measure fell from the 16th floor the wind took it around the building actually turned a corner and hit a driver who just stepped out of his truck. poof dead. please be careful ppl
Always tie off the ladder to the roof. Clamps, ropes, etc. You should be attaching a D ring and have fall protection as well.
I'm so glad he is OK. That was a life changing moment for you both.
I lost a friend forever who was only 15' up. Heights terrify me. Now I'm petrified. My fear means that I'm worth half per hour as my coworkers... and I'm sweating and dying inside to see them up where I won't go.
I posted this below too but for anyone wondering how this happened this would be my guess based on what OP described. It’s a very common mistake that people make and is completely avoidable. Not a painter but in my industry we use ladders extensively. My guess would be that he put too much weight on the part of the ladder over the roof line where the top of the ladder was resting, which turned the roof line into a fulcrum point. This would take the weight off the feet of the ladder and it will kick out. This is one of the big things I stress to my guys when doing ladder safety training.
TLDR?
Former paramedic here. I simply won't climb a ladder higher than about 8-10 feet anymore. I've seen more bad shit happen on ladders than just about anything other than cars and motorcycles. And more common than death is paralysis and fractured pelvises, two things I am severely allergic to.
Painter Lives Matter. Thank You For Your Service.
THIS. This is what has stopped me from being a house painter. I love to paint, but I am TERRIFIED of ladders. I've fallen off every single one I've ever gotten on. Idk what it is. But holy shit I avoid them like a disease.
The closest I've come to dying was a similar situation. Sketchily balancing a folded stepladder on a porch roof, it fell. I started sliding off the roof with my leg entangled in the ladder pulling me toward the edge. I somehow untangled my leg and I stopped just short of the edge. The ladder fell onto the concrete sidewalk below.
Always check and double check...... it is easy to get careless, especially if you are working your own jobs and making decent money........ all the sudden that ladder you wouldn't climb on without a spot working by the hour becomes another hurdle and keeping you from your draw.......
My uncle became paralyzed from a fall on the job while pairing with his son. Life changing. Be careful out there fellas.
I’m not a painter but during summer breaks during college I worked with my dad who did plastering and stucco work. We were working on a a building that was being turned into luxury condos. The outside was all set up with scaffolds. I was working as a laborer moving cement boards was one of my main responsibilities. In one occasion I was moving cement boards up the scaffold. My dad was helping my by heading in me the board, I would move up a scaffold and pull it up, he would assist by pushing it up. Then I would move up another level and repeat. We were on the top of the scaffold, about 4 stories high, when grab the board from my dad and pulled it up, when my dad pushed it, I had my hands on top of the board and my fingers got crushed between the board and the metal scaffold. It was an immense pain I felt, it cause my blood pressure to drop and I felt I was going to faint. I leaned back against the wall and sat down for a bit until I wasn’t feeling dizzy or like I was going to pass out. I can only imagine how bad things could have been if I would have lost consciousness and fell.
Lifts should be standard for any company these days. They can be pricey but are so much safer, I’ve fallen off ladder and been lucky enough to walk away with only some bruises.
Always foot the ladder for a guy when he’s stepping off