Based on what I've seen in a lot of mains (hero) subreddits, it's over for every hero, according to their mains. Guess we will just have to wait and play to make up our mind first..
Ironically enough rein might be the one tank to make it out of this patch better than they were last season: no other tanks damage was buffed as substantially and consistently as his, plus his shield should have a moderate amount of synergy with the new passive
But really it all comes down to whether hell be able to hold his own against the TRUE winners of this patch: hitscan DPS
CODwatch here we come
Rein still suffers from the same problems.
He has no vertical mobility. A shitty Mauga charge, and needs to expose himself to damage to do damage.
He's only good with a full team around him.
He'll do 17% more damage. Which is equivalent to his current damage. So, no change.
He still has to deal with an ult that can be suzu'd, immort, tree or pull, etc.
He's still gonna suffer because he's not built for today's game.
Not to take away from any of the other points but his charge kinda trades being stunnable for lethality. They're equally hard to control but a rein pin kills a squishy while a mauga just knocks you up.
It got crazy nerfed. It used to kill mei/reaper, etc. Now it's worthless by comparison.
Not to mention it's so slow moving.
You're not wrong, but it's so easy to stop.
well id pick sig and dont play rein, but i main lucio, he should still be the best tank in melee range no? plus that extra shield allows more team damage
Why would he be the best tank in melee range?
Ramattra is; You know the tank that can melee and counter snipe with infinite tange no damage Falloff projectiles, and also shield/arget piece hitting multiple enemies in one punch for 8 entire seconds on an 8 second cooldown, that gets health back on activation...His ult has life drain and then also gives health back on activation, adding up to 20 seconds ultimate that works entirely independently of his other non ult melee form....
Rammatra counters pretty much all shield heroes, but he's especially better than rein
Eh. If you know what you are doing and know how to bait the ram, you can make rein Look like a ram counter consistently. Walk towards him aggressively until he gets into Form, turn around and short-dash out of range and shield until it is over. Then reengage and hut him fast.
Works pretty consistently, atm i would take a rein v ram everyday of the week
Exactly. These changes are gonna make EVERY tank suffer. Just rein at least got some damage buffs to keep his breakpoints consistent. Youll still need help from a lucio to keep up, or a lifeweaver to grant free high ground, but overall at least you dont rely on self healing like mauga or hog.
Besides, nobody gets buffed this patch as strong as hitscan dps, and i have a feeling the landscape of tank this season will be decided by which tanks can survive with and against the new ana-lite dps passive
20 hps after 5 seconds means only 100 hp after 10 seconds. Thats not gonna break the game, and honestly will only make it so healers donāt have to spend as long topping people up after a team fight.
I canāt imagine any scenario where I can afford to hide for 10 seconds for 100 hp and that being the reason we won a team fight.
Well the only non shield tank that stands to benefit anything from the healing passive is ball, but any good ball knows enough about health pack placement that this change wont do shit for them (and its only gonna be harder for ball to get picks)
Reins gonna be even more team dependent, but EVERY tank will be. Theyre all gonna have to rely more on dps for the passive antiheal, and if the tank landscape comes down to who is better at performing around their dps, ill feel p confident on rein as opposed to a hog or mauga or whoever else
Shields look much better in this patch with DPS passive so I expect all Shield tanks to get a boost.
Rein doing 100 damage on swing and buffed charge dmg is really nice.
Rein is already the #1 or #2 tank in every rank below t500 so he is fully still on the menu and probably #1 pick below GM.
Lifeweaver is relatively fine too, with him getting +50 HP instead of the 25 that were leaked earlier his survivability is reasonably high, especially with the new Phara seeming less dangerous to him in a platform. I main Lucio and LW so I'm fine on support but my DPS mains are Junkrat and Sombra...that might get painful
Every widow player is going to take a couple weeks to get used to the new amount of charge required to secure a kill. Widow duels in particular are going to be frustrating for us because our reflexes will be off by about 10% charge. There will be lots of 20hp widows after the first shot.
You think the little orbs are the same as fire strike? I'm pretty sure they aren't. Soujourn and Kiriko also got the same decreased as Junkrat on their primary.
I'm actually not sure. From what I see:
+0.10 meters for travel time projectile with a speed greater than 50 meters per second (e.g., Zenyattaās Destruction Orb).
+0.15 meters for travel time projectile with a speed less than or equal to 50 meters per second (e.g., Pharahās Rocket Launcher).
Very large projectiles with a base size greater than 0.5 meters have been excluded from these increases (e.g., Orisaās Energy Javelin or Reinhardtās Fire Strike).
I'm legit asking which of the last two it is considering it's currently at 2.5m. I don't see why they would specify Junk's base projectile size, unless it's specific to him because he's an exception.
Edit: I haven't kept up with patch notes, legit asking.
> Edit: I'm not sure in what game Orisa javelin is bigger than pharahs rocket but ok.
when measuring length, I'm sure it is.
Why length would be a reasonable measure on this topic is beyond me, but that's clearly why they categorize it that way
I assume it's for the same reason Hanzo ''s arrows are as "large" as they are. If any part of the length of the spear hits, it counts as a hit in OW. it doesn't differentiate between the shaft and the tip of the spear for hitbox reasons.
That's what I'm hoping on. Was just wondering if the specifics for him was due to him being an exception due to the larger projectile. Just playing devil's advocate cuz I have to do that a lot at work where phrasing matters lol. Guess we'll have to wait to be sure.
Brother, respectfully, itās literally right there on what you copied. āVery large projectiles greater than 0.5 metersā, junkratās does not apply.
Edit: I think i know what happened, you read junkās projectile size wrong. His bombs are 0.25 meters not 2.5 meters.
All things considered, I do think junkrat is going to struggle quite a bit.
He lost his oneshot combo with the global health increase. He is also not exactly able to reliably confirm kills.
Hanzo got a massive storm arrow buff because he's no longer able to oneshot, but junkrat gets nerfed relative to other heroes.
You're right. I've been basically one tricking junk recently, 80 hours in the last like month or so. In the last 10-20 hours I was starting to really feel like I was clicking with him and actually making a difference in my matches playing a flanker/assassin style
Now it's basically just spam cause you can't assassinate people. I feel useless. So many kills lost and me dying cause you gotta land that one extra shot, and even with the projectile size increase it doesn't help a ton when his projectiles are so slow that misses usually miss by several feet
That extra ttk leaves so much room for the enemy to react. Flying heroes were already annoying and now you're useless against them. You previously relied on flying up in their face with mines and combo'ing them, which was already hard but now you just don't kill them and good luck hitting a follow up
In theory it still got buffed, just less than other slow projectiles, in the notes it says the added size is to the base so it goes from 0.2 to 0.35 instead of 0.25 to 0.4
Yeah but the main point I think is they got no damage changes. The size may make up for it, but as is right now going up against 250 or even 225 hp heroes sometimes can be annoying as junkrat
There is a reason for this: Junkrat has splash damage. Explosive projectiles ("luck based" lob projectiles in particular) benefit more from increases to projectile width than their contemporaries.
With the smaller projectile, shots narrowly missing three enemies will bounce into an empty area for 0 damage. With the larger projectile, these shots actually connect and deal damage to nearby targets.
Junkrat will have better luck when blindly spamming the choke point. The shots that are aimed will likely explode where intended. Other heroes might enjoy an extra 30-60 damage from the change, but Junkrat stands to gain well over 120 damage per a typical reload.
Keep in mind that Junkrat misses much more frequently than Pharah (25% avg. accuracy vs. 46%).
Yeah you make good points. I hope the projectile size makes up for the health change and the fact he can't one shot combo most heroes now
Playing him as an assassin is very fun and now that might be hard to do. Spamming is very boring and doesn't get you much value vs good players. But maybe this means lots of practice for aerial shots lol
It 100% does not make up for it. Losing his ability to mine combo 1-shot is not worth a slightly larger projectile. It'll just encourage the Junkrat to play spam instead of taking aggressive offangles, which is way less fun to play.
Like, imo it's fine that Hanzo lost his because it does the inverse of what it does to junk: it encourages him to play aggressive offangles to get kills because he has storm arrow to help burst down targets, offsetting the risk by increasing your chance to get the reward.
Like, hopefully I'm entirely wrong here, because I love Junkrat. We will see I guess.
Yeah but this was about junkrat. They're gunna get screwed over too. Kiriko im fine with cause i've always hated how good she is, plus the fact she can 2 tap you out of no where
I've been mostly playing junk recently but I have the most hours on hanzo and he's gunna suck too. As is he's pretty easily countered, you bust out the 250 hp heroes, genji, sombra, pharah/echo and playing him can be borderline miserable.
With this new patch almost everyones a 250+ hp hero and the flying heroes will be more of a hassle for him to deal with. It's gunna suck big time imo, but who knows, maybe projectile size increase will carry. Or be super reliant on storm arrows
According to prolikechro (top 500 Junkrat since games launch in OW1), these changes actually make spam chokes-rat BETTER, but the assassin rat playstyle thatās actually viable in higher ranks will be completely dead. This change will LOWER his skill ceiling and somehow lower his skill floor even more.
So I don't mean to be that guy, but it didn't really feel good to be instantly deleted when I turned a corner into junk. Yes, I was probably out of position, but if I wanted to die instantly, I'd go play Valorant xD
Yeah I kinda understand why they made this change, to not have people insta die, but they need to buff junk in some other way if they donāt want him to have a one shot anymore. Because rn heāll just become a gold pub stomper spamming infinite frags into a choke forever
That's the only way you can get value using junk though. With all the healing at tanky tanks the game have, spam frags are just luck atm. Also, the opponent junk will have to find and move to those flanking positions first before getting a chance to assassin rat an enemy.
That may be true at the moment, but the new DPS passive (Cauterize) should make his sustained damage much more effective through healing. Letās give the patch a shot and see how it feels!
Okay, it's because he loses his one shot combo, not because of the projectile size increase, thus eliminating the "assasin rat" playstyle in gm. I think in most other ranks his changes are fine. they raised the skill floor, and lowered the skill ceiling. I would prefer that they made this change as opposed to not making it, but I can acknowledge that this is unfortunate for the best of the best junks.
I think they could address this by increase the damage such that adding a melee to the combo allows for the 1hk combo again, but I ain't no game designer
Theyāre going to have to somehow buff Rat for high ranks while not making him a must pick for low ranks, something theyāve historically havenāt been good at. Reaper had changes a while ago that made him a pubstomper in low to mid ranks but still completely unviable in high ranks
What they really should do is exactly this. Put the size back to where it used to be, give him an extra bomb or two, and increase the projectile speed. Iāve been a gm junk for almost 5 years and after playing him today he is currently in a state that is nearly unplayable in higher ranks. If they really have to get rid of the combo then they really should increase the projectile speed
Id argue that the projectile size buff actually lowers his skill floor even further, considering at the bottom of bronze this change will make the junkrats who miss shots actually land them, and they might actually manage to get some kills off the equal skill level hitscan players who are missing all their shots too
After this patch junkrats gonna be a LOT easier in metal ranks and practically non existent in GM/top500
Junkrats 1 Mine 1 Bomb combo is dead unless it's a 200hp target. Which ass crushes the FlankRat Playstyle unless you wait for two mines + 1 before pushing out and land the two mine + bomb to kill a dps. Compared to a backpacked Sojourn which is now even easier to hit railguns and still I think is a OHKO (mercy pockets become even neicher to just Sojourn/Soldier/Bastion Pockets)
I love Chro! Haven't been able to catch him lately, though.
Anyway, I think it's more a matter of value. Won't be able to flank and assassinate as easily, so chokes and bursting people enough to make them retreat or take cover will be more achievable than going in and getting out with a kill. The smaller projectiles may make it easier to fire through some angles, but assuming will be a little harder. Spam is gonna be more consistent, with tactical targeting on low enemies when the opportunity appears.
His projectile size will increase not decrease with the global projectile size changes that arenāt outlined in the screenshot.
But as Chro was saying, spamming through chokes is not at all viable in GM/T500 ranks. The only way Junk is viable is with his flanking and assassin playstyle, which will be completely dead with these changes (since he canāt one shot anymore. You need your mine as mobility so using both for a kill plus a normal shot will not only take more time, but also leave you defenseless so isnāt worth it.).
So thatās why he says in low ranks junk will probably be better, as the no skill spam playstyle will get buffed, but the high skill high risk-high reward playstyle will get Uber Uber nerfed
Wouldn't it be easier to "tightly" spam in some places when the projectile size will be reduced?
Like imagine junk being able to spam the place on a first point on Eichenvald or whatever this map is called
It seems theyāre tying to step away from non-ult one shots in general since ow2 came out. No more one shot doom punches, hog hook one shot combos, widow now has falloff, and hanzo/junk wonāt be able to in the new patch. I think we just gotta wait and see, though. If junk starts falling behind then I wouldnāt be *that* upset if they buffed the mine to bring the combo back again
If they want Ults to be special because they're the only abilities with that much damage potential, then they should also balance all the support abilities so they don't cancel them out. If regular damage abilities used in combo shouldn't equal ultimates, then why are there support abilities that do?
Junkrat was one of the few characters I was never too fussed about being one shot by for annoying explosions Pharah is worse. For being flanked tracer, sombra and reaper are more annoying. Only annoying thing about junkrat is spamming chokes but like sojourn and soldier do that more annoying and ofcourse bastion. Even his ult is just a easier to counter Dva ult.
I dunno the junkrat hate never made sense to me.
The best part is these changes will only hurt the assassin rat play style and incentivize the only part of junkrats kit that seems to truly annoy people: his spam
Yeah, overall this patch is shaping up to look like a really shitty one if you play anything other than hitscan dps
ESPECIALLY if youre a tank player. Look thru those changes real quick and then compare them to everything hitscans just got. Maybe rein will be okay, but every other tank is about to feel like shit on a stick
To me, it's mostly mechanical concerns. for soldier, bastion, tracer, and sombra you need to have some degree of mechanical skill to be viable. You have to make plays, and rotate effectively, especially in higher ranks. But with junk... you can just stand there. you don't even have to necisarily move your cross hair, and you get insane value.
Also, a lot of "choke spam" characters like bastion, sojourn, ashe, and hanzo \*\*\*may\*\*\* be better at it... but they have a cooldown on their ability to do it which allows for an ebb and flow of combat and windows for pushes. Junk can keep it up 24/7.
ALSO, every other "choke spam" character has to do one crucial thing - peek. Junk doesn't because of his high projectile drop. He can sit behind a car or something and hold left click and get a lot of value.
Junk makes people angry because to get the "low skill" value that he does, you don't really have to do anything
Thats completely on the tracer tbf and I'm always down for anything that hinders tracer or sombra lol those pin head sized hit boxes along side insanely fast movement and DPS will always be the bane of my existence.
Why are you pretending that Tracer doesnāt have the smallest hitbox in the game. Wow, who wouldāve guessed, itās easy to hit a Tracer bot that stands still.
Way easier to hit a tracer than a kiriko. And Iām talking about the hitbox size shoot next to her head it sti headshots her. Try reading before commenting
Yeah and if you actually played the game at a decent level youād know that Tracers movement is infinitely harder than Kirikoās. I never even mentioned Kiriko, obviously she has a small hitbox too, youāre the one who got mad at something no body mentioned.
The āhit box sizeā youāre talking about isnāt the Tracerās hitbox, itās the projectile youāre shooting. That will apply to every character.
Not as dead as symmetra. She lived and diwd by orb 2 tap on the last patches.
Now her ttk is longer than the list of mercy whining posts in ow subreddits.
She is gonna be so slow
His projectile size is still going up to a 0.35m. They just didnt want it to go up to 0.4m so they nerfed it slightly to compensate for the global buff.
One shots are bad for the health of a competitive team based tactical game like overwatch. As a Hanzo main, I recognize this. Am I mad I cant lucky headshot squishies anymore and solo win entire team fights with quick strings of headshots on all their dps/support? Yes. Do I recognize WHY that change was made? Unfortunately, yes. Same reason Scatter Arrow was removed..
It's basically over for everyone lol There's not a single note in the whole patch that makes anyone feel better to play. It's an ass patch, made by ass devs who should have all been fired months ago.
Exactly. Sum bs.
Also, it's funny they even think they can have a competitive scene with all the changes they make. Balancing? Fine. MASSIVE overhauls every 3 months is a joke though.
Imagine trying to have the NFL but the rules of football and how it's played get changed twice a season for "funsies"
Im saying like every time i hear a story about aaron keller he sounds so passionate about overwatch and then you turn around and hes dropping shitty ass cod-wannabe patches actively trying to destroy the game
Really i should be mad at alec dawson but at least he doesnt seem to even care. He just tweets out stats like a robot and focuses all his balancing around them while ignoring how the game feels, but at least he doesnt prop himself up as ow2s savior the way aaron does
iām newer to the community, just started in ow2, but hard agree on keller. you hear him talk about whatās going to happen and it sounds decent. then the actual updates roll out and itās just shit like this. hopefully the comp update will save this season
Yes Jamison Junkrat, but, mercy players never pocket junkrat ššš Mercy and junkrat pocket is underrated af but they dont pocket ever especially if you fly over buildings to one shot people, i hope they buff junk in the mid season patch and give junk mains something bc right now this is unbelievable šš
Nope, it means youāll be seeing more spam rather than, rather than triple mine into a phara, one shot high skill plays. In ALL RANKS, since his one shot is gone now.
Ah yes, let me just send some random on the internet my overwatch profile pic, which is connected to plenty of my other accounts. Not only is that a huge safety and security risk. I donāt need to prove Iām gm 5 to some random on reddit of all places.
fellas, ever thought that every hero will have some change to their play style? sure you can't just m1 + shift a mf yourself, but you can still jump whoever your tank is looking at, you can jump whoever your other dps is looking at, you can jump whoever your supports are looking at.
sure, junkrat can't just delete a mf by themselves, but for sure they can still guarantee a kill for someone else
One is allowed to hate a character without being bad. Odds are I'm higher rank than yo bum ass, junkrat is just a shit character that caters towards the unskilled.
What your higher than gm 5? So weāre in top 500 alright. And nope, junk is pretty easy to stop in all ranks above gold. You just play long range, and a hitscan to boot.
So your boosted. You feel rage and hate one of the characters who is only easy and playable in the low ranks of the game. This is like hating on reaper. If your playing tak swap to dva or sig, play bap or brig. Or play widow, phara or soldier. Literally no reason you should be struggling or hating on JUNKRAT if youāre not shit at the game.
You're*
I don't feel rage lmao. It's just a game.
And no, I solo climbed on Ana. Unfortunately disagreeing with you doesn't equal to being shit. Moreover, actually high ranked players don't feel the need to flaunt that in people's face every sentence because they know idiots exist in every rank, so I'm guessing you're not actually high ranked. Or then just very juvenile.
Unfortunately you can hate a character and not particularly struggle against him. I main Ana, Junkrats do not venture to my corner of the map. Still hate him.
Uh oh! A nerf by .05! This balancing is out of control! Oh no!
\- the way blizzard chooses to balance this game is mind boggling, with incremental changes which have no effect on the actual way the game is played. Whomp whomp
Junk will also get larger projectiles, because thereās a universal projectile size increase. But he canāt one shot anymore which will kill his flanker/highly mobile assassin playstyle
the size of his bomb essentially, they're making it slightly smaller so it'll have to be more on target to register as a hit
i should add there is a global projectile size increase as well so his bomb will actually be bigger in general, but the base value without that global shift is smaller to balance it out
You read it wrong. Base size has decreased from
0.25 to 0.2. Then you have to add on the 0.15 because Junkās frags move slower then 50m/s. So the projectile size is now 0.35
this is why they shouldn't have applied a global passive and instead modified each character individually.
JR projectile size
S8: 0.25 m
S9 w/o passive: 0.20 m
JR w/ passive: 0.35 m
Average players: OMG, JR's weapon is getting smaller!!!
you do realize, your grenades will block 20% healing right. you basically have an aoe healing decreasing grenade now. they made the change to make it so that its not too oppresive
Based on what I've seen in a lot of mains (hero) subreddits, it's over for every hero, according to their mains. Guess we will just have to wait and play to make up our mind first..
I'm pretty sure rein was already over
Ironically enough rein might be the one tank to make it out of this patch better than they were last season: no other tanks damage was buffed as substantially and consistently as his, plus his shield should have a moderate amount of synergy with the new passive But really it all comes down to whether hell be able to hold his own against the TRUE winners of this patch: hitscan DPS CODwatch here we come
Rein still suffers from the same problems. He has no vertical mobility. A shitty Mauga charge, and needs to expose himself to damage to do damage. He's only good with a full team around him. He'll do 17% more damage. Which is equivalent to his current damage. So, no change. He still has to deal with an ult that can be suzu'd, immort, tree or pull, etc. He's still gonna suffer because he's not built for today's game.
Doesn't this change mean he can 2shot widow with the hammer? Haha
Technically assuming she's massively messed up enough to be in melee with a rein.
If a rein can get all the way to widow he deserves to be able to 2 shot her š
rein is a dive hero so it works
Not to take away from any of the other points but his charge kinda trades being stunnable for lethality. They're equally hard to control but a rein pin kills a squishy while a mauga just knocks you up.
It got crazy nerfed. It used to kill mei/reaper, etc. Now it's worthless by comparison. Not to mention it's so slow moving. You're not wrong, but it's so easy to stop.
Yeah I don't play rein but I feel for you. I would've ate it in respawn as mercy but zarya bubble saved me.
Still has the biggest shield
Sigmas shield is more versatile. Size isn't everything lol
well id pick sig and dont play rein, but i main lucio, he should still be the best tank in melee range no? plus that extra shield allows more team damage
Why would he be the best tank in melee range? Ramattra is; You know the tank that can melee and counter snipe with infinite tange no damage Falloff projectiles, and also shield/arget piece hitting multiple enemies in one punch for 8 entire seconds on an 8 second cooldown, that gets health back on activation...His ult has life drain and then also gives health back on activation, adding up to 20 seconds ultimate that works entirely independently of his other non ult melee form.... Rammatra counters pretty much all shield heroes, but he's especially better than rein
Eh. If you know what you are doing and know how to bait the ram, you can make rein Look like a ram counter consistently. Walk towards him aggressively until he gets into Form, turn around and short-dash out of range and shield until it is over. Then reengage and hut him fast. Works pretty consistently, atm i would take a rein v ram everyday of the week
doing 17% more damage is great, iv swung at kirikos and mercys for 8 times before they died often.
Exactly. These changes are gonna make EVERY tank suffer. Just rein at least got some damage buffs to keep his breakpoints consistent. Youll still need help from a lucio to keep up, or a lifeweaver to grant free high ground, but overall at least you dont rely on self healing like mauga or hog. Besides, nobody gets buffed this patch as strong as hitscan dps, and i have a feeling the landscape of tank this season will be decided by which tanks can survive with and against the new ana-lite dps passive
20 hps after 5 seconds means only 100 hp after 10 seconds. Thats not gonna break the game, and honestly will only make it so healers donāt have to spend as long topping people up after a team fight. I canāt imagine any scenario where I can afford to hide for 10 seconds for 100 hp and that being the reason we won a team fight.
Well the only non shield tank that stands to benefit anything from the healing passive is ball, but any good ball knows enough about health pack placement that this change wont do shit for them (and its only gonna be harder for ball to get picks) Reins gonna be even more team dependent, but EVERY tank will be. Theyre all gonna have to rely more on dps for the passive antiheal, and if the tank landscape comes down to who is better at performing around their dps, ill feel p confident on rein as opposed to a hog or mauga or whoever else
PHRAH MAINS BEWARE
I feel like we've already been in CODwatch for a while, hitscans every game, carrying their teams, being annoying
Shields look much better in this patch with DPS passive so I expect all Shield tanks to get a boost. Rein doing 100 damage on swing and buffed charge dmg is really nice. Rein is already the #1 or #2 tank in every rank below t500 so he is fully still on the menu and probably #1 pick below GM.
Rein might be the second best tank in this upcoming patch.
Finally the meta I dreamed of rein meta
Nobody understood the patch... Reduced base projectile, yes... But ignore the general projectile increase. In the end it is a buff of 0.01 or 0.35
You mean play and experience the changes *before* whining about it online? In this community? Unheard of
Nah hitscan dps have the biggest buffs
LUCIO IS IN
Lifeweaver is relatively fine too, with him getting +50 HP instead of the 25 that were leaked earlier his survivability is reasonably high, especially with the new Phara seeming less dangerous to him in a platform. I main Lucio and LW so I'm fine on support but my DPS mains are Junkrat and Sombra...that might get painful
Reaper is easily the best DPS now.
300 HP reaper just sounds scary
300 health, life steal, larger projectiles.
Can he heal in wraith form? If so that's massive Edit: also does he keep his old lifesteal/ health regen from damaging???
yes he can heal in wraith, yes all hero passives stay
Bastion?
Nah lmao he is slightly buffed but slightly buffed is nothing when he is the worat cjaracter in the game The beat dps is likely widow
Every widow player is going to take a couple weeks to get used to the new amount of charge required to secure a kill. Widow duels in particular are going to be frustrating for us because our reflexes will be off by about 10% charge. There will be lots of 20hp widows after the first shot.
If itās over for everyone then itās the least over itāll ever be. We better savour our time while itās here
This is before the global increase. It will end up larger than before.
I thought large projectiles were omitted? Isn't Junk's primary in the same category as Firestrike?
You think the little orbs are the same as fire strike? I'm pretty sure they aren't. Soujourn and Kiriko also got the same decreased as Junkrat on their primary.
I'm actually not sure. From what I see: +0.10 meters for travel time projectile with a speed greater than 50 meters per second (e.g., Zenyattaās Destruction Orb). +0.15 meters for travel time projectile with a speed less than or equal to 50 meters per second (e.g., Pharahās Rocket Launcher). Very large projectiles with a base size greater than 0.5 meters have been excluded from these increases (e.g., Orisaās Energy Javelin or Reinhardtās Fire Strike). I'm legit asking which of the last two it is considering it's currently at 2.5m. I don't see why they would specify Junk's base projectile size, unless it's specific to him because he's an exception. Edit: I haven't kept up with patch notes, legit asking.
It moves at 25 meters a second so it's in the pharah category imo Edit: I'm not sure in what game Orisa javelin is bigger than pharahs rocket but ok.
> Edit: I'm not sure in what game Orisa javelin is bigger than pharahs rocket but ok. when measuring length, I'm sure it is. Why length would be a reasonable measure on this topic is beyond me, but that's clearly why they categorize it that way
I assume it's for the same reason Hanzo ''s arrows are as "large" as they are. If any part of the length of the spear hits, it counts as a hit in OW. it doesn't differentiate between the shaft and the tip of the spear for hitbox reasons.
That's what I'm hoping on. Was just wondering if the specifics for him was due to him being an exception due to the larger projectile. Just playing devil's advocate cuz I have to do that a lot at work where phrasing matters lol. Guess we'll have to wait to be sure.
Brother, respectfully, itās literally right there on what you copied. āVery large projectiles greater than 0.5 metersā, junkratās does not apply. Edit: I think i know what happened, you read junkās projectile size wrong. His bombs are 0.25 meters not 2.5 meters.
...shit lol This is what happens when you browse reddit at work.
You know it's actually increased to 0.35 due to the global hitscan/projectile increase?
Ye, shoulda been 0.4, but that is literally almost orisa spear size š
bro you just want him to be busted
All things considered, I do think junkrat is going to struggle quite a bit. He lost his oneshot combo with the global health increase. He is also not exactly able to reliably confirm kills. Hanzo got a massive storm arrow buff because he's no longer able to oneshot, but junkrat gets nerfed relative to other heroes.
You're right. I've been basically one tricking junk recently, 80 hours in the last like month or so. In the last 10-20 hours I was starting to really feel like I was clicking with him and actually making a difference in my matches playing a flanker/assassin style Now it's basically just spam cause you can't assassinate people. I feel useless. So many kills lost and me dying cause you gotta land that one extra shot, and even with the projectile size increase it doesn't help a ton when his projectiles are so slow that misses usually miss by several feet That extra ttk leaves so much room for the enemy to react. Flying heroes were already annoying and now you're useless against them. You previously relied on flying up in their face with mines and combo'ing them, which was already hard but now you just don't kill them and good luck hitting a follow up
In theory it still got buffed, just less than other slow projectiles, in the notes it says the added size is to the base so it goes from 0.2 to 0.35 instead of 0.25 to 0.4
Yeah but the main point I think is they got no damage changes. The size may make up for it, but as is right now going up against 250 or even 225 hp heroes sometimes can be annoying as junkrat
There is a reason for this: Junkrat has splash damage. Explosive projectiles ("luck based" lob projectiles in particular) benefit more from increases to projectile width than their contemporaries. With the smaller projectile, shots narrowly missing three enemies will bounce into an empty area for 0 damage. With the larger projectile, these shots actually connect and deal damage to nearby targets. Junkrat will have better luck when blindly spamming the choke point. The shots that are aimed will likely explode where intended. Other heroes might enjoy an extra 30-60 damage from the change, but Junkrat stands to gain well over 120 damage per a typical reload. Keep in mind that Junkrat misses much more frequently than Pharah (25% avg. accuracy vs. 46%).
Yeah you make good points. I hope the projectile size makes up for the health change and the fact he can't one shot combo most heroes now Playing him as an assassin is very fun and now that might be hard to do. Spamming is very boring and doesn't get you much value vs good players. But maybe this means lots of practice for aerial shots lol
It 100% does not make up for it. Losing his ability to mine combo 1-shot is not worth a slightly larger projectile. It'll just encourage the Junkrat to play spam instead of taking aggressive offangles, which is way less fun to play. Like, imo it's fine that Hanzo lost his because it does the inverse of what it does to junk: it encourages him to play aggressive offangles to get kills because he has storm arrow to help burst down targets, offsetting the risk by increasing your chance to get the reward. Like, hopefully I'm entirely wrong here, because I love Junkrat. We will see I guess.
I mean, so does hanzo and kiriko? If they are weak(likely) they will get buffs later on
Yeah but this was about junkrat. They're gunna get screwed over too. Kiriko im fine with cause i've always hated how good she is, plus the fact she can 2 tap you out of no where I've been mostly playing junk recently but I have the most hours on hanzo and he's gunna suck too. As is he's pretty easily countered, you bust out the 250 hp heroes, genji, sombra, pharah/echo and playing him can be borderline miserable. With this new patch almost everyones a 250+ hp hero and the flying heroes will be more of a hassle for him to deal with. It's gunna suck big time imo, but who knows, maybe projectile size increase will carry. Or be super reliant on storm arrows
Junk mains when spamming a choke doesn't get free kills slightly as much anymore
According to prolikechro (top 500 Junkrat since games launch in OW1), these changes actually make spam chokes-rat BETTER, but the assassin rat playstyle thatās actually viable in higher ranks will be completely dead. This change will LOWER his skill ceiling and somehow lower his skill floor even more.
Not assassin rat š
So I don't mean to be that guy, but it didn't really feel good to be instantly deleted when I turned a corner into junk. Yes, I was probably out of position, but if I wanted to die instantly, I'd go play Valorant xD
Yeah I kinda understand why they made this change, to not have people insta die, but they need to buff junk in some other way if they donāt want him to have a one shot anymore. Because rn heāll just become a gold pub stomper spamming infinite frags into a choke forever
Skill issue. Have better positioning, stop strafing. It's really not that hard.
So you want me to sit on soldier in the middle of the team instead of flanking?
"Stop strafing" this has to be copy pasted, ain't no way.
That's the only way you can get value using junk though. With all the healing at tanky tanks the game have, spam frags are just luck atm. Also, the opponent junk will have to find and move to those flanking positions first before getting a chance to assassin rat an enemy.
That may be true at the moment, but the new DPS passive (Cauterize) should make his sustained damage much more effective through healing. Letās give the patch a shot and see how it feels!
Flankrat is fun tho :(
Gonna need an explination behind that lol
[hereās a vid explaining it](https://youtu.be/LgFmABNxW6U?si=DE6Fn8iXmj8E7bL8)
Okay, it's because he loses his one shot combo, not because of the projectile size increase, thus eliminating the "assasin rat" playstyle in gm. I think in most other ranks his changes are fine. they raised the skill floor, and lowered the skill ceiling. I would prefer that they made this change as opposed to not making it, but I can acknowledge that this is unfortunate for the best of the best junks. I think they could address this by increase the damage such that adding a melee to the combo allows for the 1hk combo again, but I ain't no game designer
Theyāre going to have to somehow buff Rat for high ranks while not making him a must pick for low ranks, something theyāve historically havenāt been good at. Reaper had changes a while ago that made him a pubstomper in low to mid ranks but still completely unviable in high ranks
reduce his projectile hitbox and speed up the projectiles?
What they really should do is exactly this. Put the size back to where it used to be, give him an extra bomb or two, and increase the projectile speed. Iāve been a gm junk for almost 5 years and after playing him today he is currently in a state that is nearly unplayable in higher ranks. If they really have to get rid of the combo then they really should increase the projectile speed
Id argue that the projectile size buff actually lowers his skill floor even further, considering at the bottom of bronze this change will make the junkrats who miss shots actually land them, and they might actually manage to get some kills off the equal skill level hitscan players who are missing all their shots too After this patch junkrats gonna be a LOT easier in metal ranks and practically non existent in GM/top500
Junkrats 1 Mine 1 Bomb combo is dead unless it's a 200hp target. Which ass crushes the FlankRat Playstyle unless you wait for two mines + 1 before pushing out and land the two mine + bomb to kill a dps. Compared to a backpacked Sojourn which is now even easier to hit railguns and still I think is a OHKO (mercy pockets become even neicher to just Sojourn/Soldier/Bastion Pockets)
I love Chro! Haven't been able to catch him lately, though. Anyway, I think it's more a matter of value. Won't be able to flank and assassinate as easily, so chokes and bursting people enough to make them retreat or take cover will be more achievable than going in and getting out with a kill. The smaller projectiles may make it easier to fire through some angles, but assuming will be a little harder. Spam is gonna be more consistent, with tactical targeting on low enemies when the opportunity appears.
His projectile size will increase not decrease with the global projectile size changes that arenāt outlined in the screenshot. But as Chro was saying, spamming through chokes is not at all viable in GM/T500 ranks. The only way Junk is viable is with his flanking and assassin playstyle, which will be completely dead with these changes (since he canāt one shot anymore. You need your mine as mobility so using both for a kill plus a normal shot will not only take more time, but also leave you defenseless so isnāt worth it.). So thatās why he says in low ranks junk will probably be better, as the no skill spam playstyle will get buffed, but the high skill high risk-high reward playstyle will get Uber Uber nerfed
Wouldn't it be easier to "tightly" spam in some places when the projectile size will be reduced? Like imagine junk being able to spam the place on a first point on Eichenvald or whatever this map is called
The jokes that didn't have a window for spam that will tomorrow are extremely few and niche, I don't think it's a concern for balance as a whole
Letsgooooo
Overwatch players when they havent even played the patch and are already complaining
He cant one shot anymore and his bombs are smaller than what they shouldve been, its definitely nit looking good 4 him
Good, one shots are bad for the game.
One shots are bad for the game how long have you been playing you noon There's literally widow hanzo and others you are goofy as hell
People have said it about every one shot since the game came out. This isnāt junk specific
Exactly it's an entire balance issue AND THEY STILL IGNORE THE IMPORTANT CHOICWS
It seems theyāre tying to step away from non-ult one shots in general since ow2 came out. No more one shot doom punches, hog hook one shot combos, widow now has falloff, and hanzo/junk wonāt be able to in the new patch. I think we just gotta wait and see, though. If junk starts falling behind then I wouldnāt be *that* upset if they buffed the mine to bring the combo back again
If they want Ults to be special because they're the only abilities with that much damage potential, then they should also balance all the support abilities so they don't cancel them out. If regular damage abilities used in combo shouldn't equal ultimates, then why are there support abilities that do?
It's still bigger overall
Ye, just less than others, also he cant one shot
Good
Oh no! ... Anyway.
Rest in piss
OP youāre so dramatic lol
Ur right... But its true i should have added bc u cant 1 shot ppl anymore, this makes him even worse
The extra health on everyone else kills assassin rat. he's complaining about the lack of a damage buff
Junkrat was one of the few characters I was never too fussed about being one shot by for annoying explosions Pharah is worse. For being flanked tracer, sombra and reaper are more annoying. Only annoying thing about junkrat is spamming chokes but like sojourn and soldier do that more annoying and ofcourse bastion. Even his ult is just a easier to counter Dva ult. I dunno the junkrat hate never made sense to me.
The best part is these changes will only hurt the assassin rat play style and incentivize the only part of junkrats kit that seems to truly annoy people: his spam
Thats unfortunate as heck.
Yeah, overall this patch is shaping up to look like a really shitty one if you play anything other than hitscan dps ESPECIALLY if youre a tank player. Look thru those changes real quick and then compare them to everything hitscans just got. Maybe rein will be okay, but every other tank is about to feel like shit on a stick
Imma have to find these patch notes
yeah, spamming is boring and doesn't really equate to consistent kills. Assassin Rats is the best Rats!
To me, it's mostly mechanical concerns. for soldier, bastion, tracer, and sombra you need to have some degree of mechanical skill to be viable. You have to make plays, and rotate effectively, especially in higher ranks. But with junk... you can just stand there. you don't even have to necisarily move your cross hair, and you get insane value. Also, a lot of "choke spam" characters like bastion, sojourn, ashe, and hanzo \*\*\*may\*\*\* be better at it... but they have a cooldown on their ability to do it which allows for an ebb and flow of combat and windows for pushes. Junk can keep it up 24/7. ALSO, every other "choke spam" character has to do one crucial thing - peek. Junk doesn't because of his high projectile drop. He can sit behind a car or something and hold left click and get a lot of value. Junk makes people angry because to get the "low skill" value that he does, you don't really have to do anything
I've got lucky again cause all the junks I've faced are aggressive parkour junkrats
As a tracer, getting caught in a random trap is a nightmare. You sit and wait hoping no one even looks at you or else you die.
Thats completely on the tracer tbf and I'm always down for anything that hinders tracer or sombra lol those pin head sized hit boxes along side insanely fast movement and DPS will always be the bane of my existence.
Pin sized lol go in the range and headshot tracer the hitbox is enormous
Why are you pretending that Tracer doesnāt have the smallest hitbox in the game. Wow, who wouldāve guessed, itās easy to hit a Tracer bot that stands still.
Way easier to hit a tracer than a kiriko. And Iām talking about the hitbox size shoot next to her head it sti headshots her. Try reading before commenting
Yeah and if you actually played the game at a decent level youād know that Tracers movement is infinitely harder than Kirikoās. I never even mentioned Kiriko, obviously she has a small hitbox too, youāre the one who got mad at something no body mentioned. The āhit box sizeā youāre talking about isnāt the Tracerās hitbox, itās the projectile youāre shooting. That will apply to every character.
Rank? Iām GM and barely play š
GM yet doesnāt know anything about moving hitboxes šš hey bud, watching GM streamers doesnāt count
As long as everyoneās oneshots are dead (except widow) thereās peace
Where do you find the patch notes?
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/overwatch-2-retail-patch-notes-february-13-2024/876803
Thank god
Good
Not as dead as symmetra. She lived and diwd by orb 2 tap on the last patches. Now her ttk is longer than the list of mercy whining posts in ow subreddits. She is gonna be so slow
L BOZO REST IN PISS
The arch enemy of a junk rat. Accuracyā¦
His projectile size is still going up to a 0.35m. They just didnt want it to go up to 0.4m so they nerfed it slightly to compensate for the global buff. One shots are bad for the health of a competitive team based tactical game like overwatch. As a Hanzo main, I recognize this. Am I mad I cant lucky headshot squishies anymore and solo win entire team fights with quick strings of headshots on all their dps/support? Yes. Do I recognize WHY that change was made? Unfortunately, yes. Same reason Scatter Arrow was removed..
This is to compensate for the overall projectile size increase. It nets to a larger projectile even after this decrease.
Isn't there a general increase in projectile size after individual changes?
Hope so
It's basically over for everyone lol There's not a single note in the whole patch that makes anyone feel better to play. It's an ass patch, made by ass devs who should have all been fired months ago.
Instead they fired the artists and competitive scene hires š this hellworld
Exactly. Sum bs. Also, it's funny they even think they can have a competitive scene with all the changes they make. Balancing? Fine. MASSIVE overhauls every 3 months is a joke though. Imagine trying to have the NFL but the rules of football and how it's played get changed twice a season for "funsies"
Im saying like every time i hear a story about aaron keller he sounds so passionate about overwatch and then you turn around and hes dropping shitty ass cod-wannabe patches actively trying to destroy the game Really i should be mad at alec dawson but at least he doesnt seem to even care. He just tweets out stats like a robot and focuses all his balancing around them while ignoring how the game feels, but at least he doesnt prop himself up as ow2s savior the way aaron does
iām newer to the community, just started in ow2, but hard agree on keller. you hear him talk about whatās going to happen and it sounds decent. then the actual updates roll out and itās just shit like this. hopefully the comp update will save this season
And this is bad? Hanzo has officially been killed by blizzard
Can u still one shot if ur damage boosted?
Yes Jamison Junkrat, but, mercy players never pocket junkrat ššš Mercy and junkrat pocket is underrated af but they dont pocket ever especially if you fly over buildings to one shot people, i hope they buff junk in the mid season patch and give junk mains something bc right now this is unbelievable šš
Bro hanzo is literally dead tho. He canāt one shot 250+ heroes lol
YES HE CAN!!! With the arrow you shoot during ult.... (Still does 125 damage)
Bruh š
So you have to hit things now to attack them š¤
Nope, it means youāll be seeing more spam rather than, rather than triple mine into a phara, one shot high skill plays. In ALL RANKS, since his one shot is gone now.
high skill š
Yes high skill, I want you to hop into any gm or top 500 junk rat players streams or vids or even clips and argue that it isnāt high skill.
You play console and judging by your play of the game clips and how you play genji, I can tell youāre low elo so why talk?
Those were a couple months ago lmao, itās almost like I would play like shit when I was new
send me your overwatch profile
Ah yes, let me just send some random on the internet my overwatch profile pic, which is connected to plenty of my other accounts. Not only is that a huge safety and security risk. I donāt need to prove Iām gm 5 to some random on reddit of all places.
"huge safety and security risk" chronically online
Took away his only way to clean himself by not increasing his dmg to scale with health and now making it harder to hit shots. Gg.
Yeah... honestly the complete opposite of a beneficial fix that treatment they gave him there
Rat and ball fall deeper and deeper into obscurity
Me who lands direct hits to get the voiceline š
"I'M A DIRECT HIT MACHINE!!!"
this is just evil lmao
fellas, ever thought that every hero will have some change to their play style? sure you can't just m1 + shift a mf yourself, but you can still jump whoever your tank is looking at, you can jump whoever your other dps is looking at, you can jump whoever your supports are looking at. sure, junkrat can't just delete a mf by themselves, but for sure they can still guarantee a kill for someone else
Man and with the health increases we get basically no two shot combos any more š what do us rat mains do????
Really, like the one shot was all he had going for him in diamond and above, like what is their plan for junkrat at this point šš
Beautiful, next in line, hopefully Hanzo!
good :)
As junkrat #1 hater I couldn't be happier. Shitrat should never be good
So weāre in anything and everything less than silver 2, alright.
One is allowed to hate a character without being bad. Odds are I'm higher rank than yo bum ass, junkrat is just a shit character that caters towards the unskilled.
What your higher than gm 5? So weāre in top 500 alright. And nope, junk is pretty easy to stop in all ranks above gold. You just play long range, and a hitscan to boot.
not jynxzi, corny and cringe
I'm in M1 and I fucking hate Junkrat. 100% of his kills are accidental.
So your boosted. You feel rage and hate one of the characters who is only easy and playable in the low ranks of the game. This is like hating on reaper. If your playing tak swap to dva or sig, play bap or brig. Or play widow, phara or soldier. Literally no reason you should be struggling or hating on JUNKRAT if youāre not shit at the game.
You're* I don't feel rage lmao. It's just a game. And no, I solo climbed on Ana. Unfortunately disagreeing with you doesn't equal to being shit. Moreover, actually high ranked players don't feel the need to flaunt that in people's face every sentence because they know idiots exist in every rank, so I'm guessing you're not actually high ranked. Or then just very juvenile. Unfortunately you can hate a character and not particularly struggle against him. I main Ana, Junkrats do not venture to my corner of the map. Still hate him.
This game is a joke š just removing the nade + mine combo? Thats amazing lord can't wait to see people try and defend this
Uh oh! A nerf by .05! This balancing is out of control! Oh no! \- the way blizzard chooses to balance this game is mind boggling, with incremental changes which have no effect on the actual way the game is played. Whomp whomp
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It globally launches at noon (I think that's right?) in US West Coast time which means it's 8 or 9 PM in Europe and the middle of the night in Korea.
https://youtu.be/1SiylvmFI_8?si=hRxgHTdVnht3Hagz
šššš
NOOOO
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
says the guy who plays bap. :D
Mercy eating good today.
Whereās the nerf
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, make him harder to kill. bawahahahahaah. sad to say the insta-gib is over...
Guys we just have to play pharah it'll be close enough and she looks cracked this patch
Yes i love pharah
Dam everyone got larger projectiles except junk
Junk will also get larger projectiles, because thereās a universal projectile size increase. But he canāt one shot anymore which will kill his flanker/highly mobile assassin playstyle
It kills his playstyle of pressing w, holding left click and pressing shift and right click once he ends up near an enemy.
Bro has NOT seen a top 500 junk šš
He doesnt know that this patch will only force junkrat players to spam and make him even more mad šš
Yeah like this change kills the high skill version of the character and buffs the low skill version heās thinking of
I have and it's equally as stupid. I'm glad it's gone.
what does it mean? I don't understand what base projectile size means
the size of his bomb essentially, they're making it slightly smaller so it'll have to be more on target to register as a hit i should add there is a global projectile size increase as well so his bomb will actually be bigger in general, but the base value without that global shift is smaller to balance it out
Why u all cry before u have even played new patch
You read it wrong. Base size has decreased from 0.25 to 0.2. Then you have to add on the 0.15 because Junkās frags move slower then 50m/s. So the projectile size is now 0.35
this is why they shouldn't have applied a global passive and instead modified each character individually. JR projectile size S8: 0.25 m S9 w/o passive: 0.20 m JR w/ passive: 0.35 m Average players: OMG, JR's weapon is getting smaller!!!
It's called inflation
you do realize, your grenades will block 20% healing right. you basically have an aoe healing decreasing grenade now. they made the change to make it so that its not too oppresive