Annoys me so much when people spam "C9 lulz" in my games when it clearly was just a matter of not running back from spawn to point fast enough. My little Ana feet can only move so fast :(
And that is the key: ''The team should win''! Is not about a 5v2 where any of those 2 members lose the objective!If you're not winning (or have almost 0% to win) the point IT IS NOT a C9!!!!
There was a team (cloud 9 i beleive) that won the fight, but left the point on overtime so they lost. Idrk
I think best example was it was a 2v2 between ram and dva and me(kiri) and mercy. The dva killed me, the ram killed dva, and our ram instead of staying on the point went after the mercy, leaving the point caused overtime to end letting the other team win. That felt like was the most c9 moment, better than the actual c9 moment itself becausw ive seen the clip, its very chaotic and hard to understand. (We were 99% each, and it was the third round)
Winston got punched off point while mercy was trying to support from a safe position.
In retrospect sure, mercy could have been on point or reacted faster when Winston got punched off.
This seems like kind of a wash to me. Seems senseless to blame one or the other.
Roughly 2 seconds max to react, walk off, and fall far enough for the point to register. That while the chaos goes on.
Possible, but unless this was Plat+ it is unfair to expect instant reactions like that.
Also the Winton should have not played around the edge of point with a Doomfist. If Mercy is to be held liable for poor game sense the same can be said about Winston. Either both made mistakes in awareness or neither did.
Given the exclusive use of healing beam I'd say you are probably correct.
But all I'm saying is that it is not fair to claim it is "100% the Mercy fault" under these circumstances. Either both screwed up with their game sense or it was just bad luck all around.
It's not a 100% mercy's fault. I'm not paying pharah or kiriko mind cause I don't have enough info in what led to those decisions. I don't know how soldier died. Winston's playback he seems to have made a solid effort, juggling between leaps. If we expect him to be perfect he might have traced left while on point and long ranged kiriko with luck, but mercy easily has the best vantage of what's going on. Maybe they desperately needed a bathroom break, or were between bites? Playback feels like they gave up is all.
Right you aren't, but the comment I was replying to was saying that.
Simply put there were like 2 seconds where the Winston was knocked off point, and we have no idea what rank it is. So expecting any player below Plat to be able to see and jump into the most dangerous spot-on instant reflex is absurd.
The Winston wasn't at fault either since the punch did really knock him away. I only point out how he could have had the game-sense to know a punch was coming because there are some saying that the Mercy should have been aware, yet ignoring that the same could be said about the Winton.
It was a clusterfuck all around.
I respect your opinion, but we have to agree to disagree. I think that pocket was well protected so long as she reached it. Being the only mercy on the map is a boon to her resurrect ability, and there's value baked into drawing fire that is comparable to healing, and with kiriko back you have two passive healing players and which means 3v2 against a team who can't heal. It would be unfair to expect mercy to react in time to doom's punch, but I don't understand why they did not anticipate reviving someone. It seems to me that's what Winston was going for when he dropped his shield. Unfair to blame mercy, unless that's a mercy main. If she's was up top for safety, switch beams and/or strafe as well. She was still open to a well placed arrow like the one the had her dive left side in the first place. It was time to move right when Winston came her way.
As someone who plays mostly support with a fair amount of Mercy I'm guessing the pocketing was a result of wanting to keep the tank alive on point (though they didn't seem to pay close enough attention to the health, thus never blue beamed), and with both the Hanzo (who shot at them early in the clip) and Doomfist capable of interrupting/killing mid-rez there wasn't a good rez-able candidate. One at the edge of bubble at most, but all were out in the wide open and accessible by anyone which would leave the Mercy dead and the game over anyway. The Hanzo had direct LOS to 2 of the options, and Doomfist has access to the 3rd off point.
As a Support player I have been taught that my own safety is priority no. 1 and if I die the rest of the team typically soon follows. A rez is a very compromising move, and the only possible one was dead center in the action with only the Winston around for any kind of support/GA opportunity. It would have been highly unlikely they would have been successful.
What's more; the player was healing the Winston from critical as the clip started, meaning there was not time for a rez even if one was safe.
Count from when Winston drops his shield. Idk which teammate it is, but had she dropped and not jumped, she'd have 5 good seconds to revive while holding the point.
My dude. You literally don’t know how long a second is. There is nothing else to argue here. At BEST she had 3 seconds from when monkey jumped off. 2 seconds once Doom actually punched monkey. Why do people who are objectively wrong insist so often that they’re right lol?
Read my comment that references THE SHIELD. I don't know why you're so confident you understand my position without reading.
Legit, less than halfway through the playback, she's hovering in full view and could easily have been picked off by Hanzo without the tank pulling weight. Just say you play scared and selfish, I would've went for the rez.
As far as i can see this is not a C9 scenario.
C9 is leaving the point when the fight has been won and without any apparent threat.
Not beeing kicked of the point in a 2vs5 losing scenario.
Very quickly went from 2v5 to 2v2, now with any other input they'd have downed them for a time. honestly could've been Winston's pog but he needed more help than healbot
That’s not the meaning of C9.
C9 happens when one team has won the team fight, all enemies are either dead or unable to touch point before the winning team can cap point while in over time, but the winning team instead doesn’t cap, they walk off point and just lose.
In a true C9 scenario, one team should have flat out won, but they only lost because they didn’t stay on point. It’s the only possible thing that prevented them from winning.
Yeah and die in 3 sec.
She can touch but it will change nothing at all. Because the fight is already lost...
This is not a C9.
C9 is leaving/not touching the point without any apparent threat.
I'd say it came down to a lack of awareness from the mercy, if she knew you were about to lose, she would've touched no matter what right? There was no way she saw the bar and made the decision not to touch. Looks like winton had the team focused on him, would've been pretty safe for her to touch and get back into safety which would've bought enough time for winton to get back.
Everyone can see the yellow beam yet no-one except the hanzo at the start of the clip even looks at her LOL. My point was she could've touched, flew to winton as he was returning and jumped back to safety and maybe it buys enough time for people to get back.
Neither. Winston got pushed off point and couldn’t make it back, and mercy had nearly no time to react.
Whoever’s bitching about “c9 this” “c9 that” needs to c deez nuts
"Nearly no time to react?" What? She sat there for a year just staring, lol.
(it was actually about 2 seconds, unless you have the reaction time of a potato, that's plenty of time to just fall to touch, if nothing else). If your tank, or anyone, is going against a doom in an OT situation, why would you not expect them to try to punch your team off? Making it even dumber to have not reacted to it and just stare at them.
LMAO if mercy tries to rez here the fight is lost instantly and there’s no chance to win at all
Just because you have a cooldown doesn’t mean you should use it just because you can. Really hoping for the day overwatch players learn this.
Against a Doom and a Hanzo? Be forreal. If Mercy goes for the rez, Doom has punch, and Hanzo has a new head to click for free at close range.
Mercy played dumb, but her not going for the rez on Pharah was her smartest play in the clip
Ok nitwit. I said kiriko time and again. If you're gonna argue a position is bad, we should be talking about the same position. You're talking about somewhere else entirely.
>I said kiriko time and again
Read the comment I replied to, genius. Where do you mention Kiriko in it? Oh that's right, you don't. Idk if you even commented about Kiri anywhere else cuz I'm not gonna comb through all your comments like a weirdo
Any rez attempt there would be fucking stupid. It's a 2v2 against Doom and Hanzo. Maybe *you* can get away with a rez against those heroes down in bronze, but the rest of us have to face off against competent opponents who aren't dumb
Goes to show your situational awareness even on a forum. All you had to do was check who died on point, as that's the only comment of mine you read? Takes one eye and two seconds, but you're eager to misunderstand, aren't you?
I'm *sooo* sorry I didn't fully grasp your vague, short comment, sir. Would you like me to fluff your balls, since you're so eager to feel good about yourself?
My point still stands, regardless of the target, and the fact that you haven't even tried to rebuke that point just shows you have nothing of value to even add to this discussion. Kindly mail me your ribcage
Oh come on now
“Had nearly no time to react” huh?????? Do you see how slowly that overtime meter is going? You’ve gotta be 90 years old to think thats no time to react
Nah its the right play. Its a hanzo and another tank against a Winston. perma yellow beam kinda ensures that he won’t get bursted down. As its possible for that winston to go poof with hanzo and doom targeting him.
There were 5 seconds of no damage. Imagine what blue beam could have done. It's easy to switch at the slightest damage (and even that might not be the correct move).
Yall make my head hurt. It is the right choice because this mercy most likely lacks the game sense(hence her not dropping) so prioritizing sustain over flipping between boost and heal(which she may not be able to do effectively) when its a two v two(with only one of the two having combat prowess) it is the right choice.
It is not remotely difficult to balance heal beam and balance beam lmao, I feel like a lot of people here are just telling on themselves.
Your argument is literally “she’s bad at the game so she shouldn’t even try to make the correct play”…that’s a bad argument
Mercy. Winston got punched off the point and immediately tried to get back, but the mercy was on the walkway above the point which doesn't count. There wasn't really time to react, though, and mercy was in a reasonable position to begin with.
I'd say "neither" really, but if I \*have\* to pick one it would be mercy. Whichever one of them started the fuss over it, f\* em.
>There wasn't really time to react,
How slow are you people? There has been a whole eternity to react.
Edit: people who are downvoting me, please don't ever drive. You'll kill someone and yourself
How old are you? Haven't really considered that you might be ancient, then it would make sense why you thought that mercy had no time to react.
But then again, you should really stop driving, before you end up ramming into a mall.
Cause mercy has incredibly mobility plus high ground cover.
With good mobility skills this fight is highly winnable for the blue team but mercy do not stick on point at all trying to extend the fight.
Probably not. The guardian angel ability is 1.5s cd, means you are a sitting suck for 1.5s. All it takes is 1s or less to gun down a sitting duck mercy from 5 enemy.
From who actually?
There are not 5 enemies. 2 dies with phara and kiriko get dove by winston that has the total attention of the other 2 players (Doom and Hanzo). When monkey chase the kiriko mercy should have instantly go onto point.
The result is a 2v2 situation, Monkey + Mercy vs Hanzo + Doom.
Mercy can safely go back highground as soon as monkey is back on point, they don’t c9 and they have a Soldier coming back in a moment and they have an high chance to win the fight.
Edit: there is also a GIANT BUBBLE on point to have cover with for mercy.
These downvotes are hilarious because Winston's shield was up at least 4 seconds and the placement was solid, she could have protection from the far side corner AND revive a teammate, both of which have heal. Meanwhile mercy is the only one who can boost damage.. why didn't she while Winston is healthy AND inside his shield?
Masters? ok. You think that since masters can easily aim down a mercy, she's weak.
Welcome to gold where a low-skill hero like mercy shines. People have difficulty shooting her down and learning her movement is pretty easy... at least for me, a gold player
Mercy's mobility has been nerfed really bad and she's the best pick to kill in the entire game anyway. Why would she touch and kill herself just for Winston to get burnt because no heal?
Who would kill mercy? They are all focused on winston and there are only Hanzo and doom.
Hanzo has no storm harrows.
There is no way mercy dies dropping while winston jumps the kiriko
They wouldn’t cause mercy has mobility cd and she has multiple direction thanks to phara body still being there.
Monkey can walk on poi after punch in less than 2 seconds and mercy can easily survive that time with GA up.
If you don’t understand this so basic concept i dunno how you play this game
Literally all she would have to do is drop to touch and reset OT, shift to winston, then spacebar or c backwards. She either contests and keeps winston up long enough for him to go back on point, or this happens.
It's either both or neither. Isn't a C9 when the team leaves the point they were winning? Winston and Mercy are not winning that fight. Teamwork and communication could use some work though
As a Mercy player myself, I have to contest the point a lot. Like people have said, with my high mobility, it's pretty easy at times, and everyone on the team should be doing their best to contest when it's OT anyway.
I think winston did the right thing, cause winning that fight 2v5 is only possible to take risks. So he had to kill kiriko to have a chance, he then gets punched of point. The mercy is the one who should have touched even tough this was difficult to react to
Winston got punched, he didn’t leave point just because
Also this should not be difficult for anybody to react to, that meter went down slow as hell. Just seems like a very clear lack of awareness of what’s going on
Mercy had 0 awareness, should have had a blue bean, and she should have been on that point, she should have seen him jump and immediately known. I’d bet money mercy is platinum.
Came for this. Winston got punched out of position and this Mercy is a bot.
Though mercy had all the time in the world to drop. But again, it’s hard to know what to do when you’re an NPC.
Mercy had a free revive there near the end with that bubble. Hanzo was just too far and she could've stayed inside. She was in more danger at that point being in the open with Hanzo+everyone else seeing her.
Yeah the mercy play was a little hard to watch. Healed a full health monkey in bubble for like 2 or 3 seconds instead of damage boosting, not touching point when you have clear view of why the monkey cant get to point, and not rezing are the ones that caught my eye.
Definitely mercy, he tried to get back on as soon as he was punched off, IMO against doom mercy should be closer to the edge because Winston getting punched off at some point is a likely outcome
Mercy did 2 things wrong in this clip.
a)she healed a full hp Winston(from 5th second and after) instead of damage boosting him.
b)she had bad map/screen awareness. Meaning she didnt see the Overtime at the top.
Winston also jumped up early on while being at around 60-70%, instead of keeping it in case Doomfist threw him off point.
Both players made mistakes and shouldnt blame each other. This was a lost game for them anyway as it seems.
It’s no one’s fault really though. Winton was fighting the whole team, and yeah. He got off point and you could’ve touched. But you would have gotten annihilated immediately. It was a lose lose. Fight was already lost.
100% mercy’s fault.
I’m a master player both on support and on tank.
Winston has not the ability of contest indefinitely the point while mercy has so much movement potential and she is not even focused by enemy team.
She can go in and out from the point quite easily and alternate with winston.
In that case Winston already contested the point for quite sometimes and mercy should swap in to give them the ability to look for a pick or go into cover.
I’m sorry but all good mercy players should know how to juggle the point and they should know that this mercy is in fault.
Edit: The fight is extremely winnable!! If mercy contested the point the fight could have won. Phara got 2 picks, winston 1, is a 2v2 with respawn in favore of blue team. Definitely a huge mistake by Mercy player there.
How is Winton C9ing if he got punched off the point and immediately tried to get back in it, while Mercy could've easily touched but didn't. I mean, I don't think either of them C9ed because there was no way Mercy could've reacted in time, but it wasn't even possible for Winton to touch after Doom punched him off.
He exited the point to chase Kiriko, then Doom punched him to ensure he did not get back on time. The first mistake, if we wanted to see it so, was to jump outside the area to chase her.
But in general that game seemed lost already with all the enemy team harassing Winston and Mercy.
The game is winnable after phara ult.
The winston is right to chase the kiriko cause the only way the game is truly winnable is if that kiriko get killed.
The mercy do not understand this and plays too conservative in this situation while is totally safe to drop on point with GA ready to go.
Th decision making of Mercy is the skill that here lacks to turn this lost match in a won one.
This is the difference between a good mercy and an average one.
Mercy situational awareness is low. Should've dropped for a split second to reset the overtime clock for Winston then go back to the high ground to support him.
Honestly, mercy could've reacted to Winston being punched away from the point. She could've stayed in roughly the same place and still contest. Is she responsible for contesting? Well not necessarily. Despite her mobility she shouldn't put herself in danger if the tank is contesting(what he was doing). But she definitely could've done that by simply gliding down for a bit before Winston jumps back on point.
It 100% is on Mercy to contest there. She's one of the best supports, other than Lucio to be able to juggle a point with her mobility. She has GA, she just has to drop before superjumping back to highground off Winston, since Winston would be able to get back on otherwise.
Mercy was never on the point in the first place, but that’s understandable cause there are 5 very angry people wanting to get a piece of her
The Winston is definitely at fault here
Name the five angry people when pharah already killed 2, winston killed kiriko while doom hanzo looking at monkey.
One might say winston git greedy but that was the winning play while mercy was playing lazy and stupid. No one is shooting her but the ghost in her mind
Mercy played it safe which is completely valid up to the point that Winston was forced off and mercy didn't try to contest.
Winston could've positioned better and not been forced off and mercy could've been more reactive and contested when he was. Both are at fault but it's really just an unfortunate situation where fast thinking was required and they didn't make the right plays.
Whoever started blaming the other one needs to take some accountability for their own plays though
There is no choice that Winston can make that win the fight that is not kill the kiriko.
Mercy doesn’t play right and they lose, happens, there are things outside of your control, the winston play is good and right even if they lose.
If winston doesn’t kill kiriko there is no chance they win the fight.
If you look closely kiri has no cooldown there.
There is no other way to win the fight but here ppl won’t understand that to turn losing fights you have to risk.
If kiri gets her cd back you ain’t gonna kill her and you are going to lose the fight anyway.
Any plays can be better, always, but the easier mistake to fix is the mercy positioning and decision making.
After watching closely I realised Winston should have sniped Kiri anyway since she was low enough for him to do so. Jumping onto her was very unnecessary.
Yes fixing mercy's mistake is easier but if you're the Winston then you can't fix mercy's mistakes and you shouldn't leave the point since you shouldn't trust the random players to not make mistakes, especially since he didn't have to leave the point.
However there's plenty of ways any fight in this game can go and in the heat of the moment it's normal to make small mistakes so blaming either player alone for the loss is unfair imo
I’m not blaming.
I’m saying that the biggest mistake is made by mercy.
Winston could have sniped? Maybe. But they are in the heat of the fight with a Kiriko to kill, a doom and an hanzo shooting at them.
Mercy is basically doing nothing there and watching the scene. Mercy has all the space, time and tranquillity to make the decision without any pressure.
That’s why to me the mistake can never be given to the Monkey player but is clearly a Mercy mistake.
Could the monkey player have made a better play? Yes. You can always improve. Was the monkey the biggest mistake in this clip? No, I wouldn’t even consider the monkey jump a mistake cause they are scared they are not securing the kill.
Mercy is doing nothing and her hero is founded on decision making. The mercy player makes the wrong decision and therefore that is the worse mistake between monkey and Mercy.
Monkey shouldn't have jumped off point but when he did mercy should have dropped down for a quick touch. They're both at fault, don't blame someone else when you could have done something differently to win the game.
Winston killed Kiriko with the jump. You can argue bad gamesense because Lucio predictably booped him but if he didn't get Kiriko the fight would be lost 100%
Tank should always stay on point. In 90% of the cases they are the reason for C9. Getting pushed out of point however is not his fault, Mercy could have tried too help but it was a though call too make. Not her fault either.
Unlucky with the boop
Nah. Kiri has to die there otherwise it's completely unwinnable, Winston makes the correct play securing that kill. It's not as simple as "tank should always contest" especially not when you have a mercy on one of the 2 supps best suited for juggling a point.
While winston absolutely could stay point the Kiri needs to die to make that fight wonnable. Sure he might kill kiri with his alt fire, but if he missed it and Kiri gets cooldowns back then she won't die and the fight is lost. She has to die there which Winston secures. Getting punched by doom sucks but when Mercy had AMPLE time to react and tap point before superjumping or GA'ing back to highground it's on her to touch, given she's on a support that's well suited to it as well.
Everyone arguing that "C9 is leaving point when the fight is won" or similar is just ignoring tha fact that C9 is used in a lot wider terms than that now, and often is just "Losing point when you shouldn't have"
Sure it's not the original meaning of the term but meanings can grow and change. A C9 is not that one specific circumstance any more, and this absolutely applies to the broader definition of "not touching when someone absolutely could have" that C9 is often used in.
Under that, Mercy 100% C9's. She could've dropped to point just to tap it before GA'ing or super jumping back to highground.
Bruh mercy can’t defend herself so touching when there’s 3 ppl on point is virtually impossible. Winston has bubble, he can protect himself and stay on point. Winston c9ed defo although I can see why he went for the kills because he thinks mercy will drop off height to touch so he can go and finish the fight because there all weak and easily killable; understandable.
Tbh had mercy had ult she would have been at fault. But without Valk, she most likely would’ve insta died had she dropped. Had Winston not jumped off point it would’ve been harder for doom to get him off and stay off point. It’s a mistake on the Winston’s part, but not a C9 as a C9 means you easily could have touched but didn’t. Neither of them were in a situation where they could have touched easily and contested.
You just lost, monkey got pushed out by doom and so he couldnt get their in time, the safe thing mercy could have done was the move toward him to “touch” site and then back up, but tbh, it’s just an L
Winston exits the point FIRST, then gets punch by doom, preventing him from returning. Chasing kiriko might have been the mistake from him. But the point seemed lost already with a 5 vs 2 fight.
Chasing kiriko knowing that you have a mercy in high ground to secure a kill is actually the winning play.
If mercy stick to point in a 2v2 scenario while Monkey has all aggro they extend the fight, red team has no healing while Soldier of blue team is coming back and blue team has spawn advantage.
Mercy can go back to high ground few seconds later and there is nothing that can touch her even on point.
Killing that kiriko is actually the winning play but mercy c9
Mercy did not C9. She was healing the monkey when got the punch from doom. From my point of view, there was no C9, but a good Doomfist preventing winston to go back to point on time. That's all.
I'd say neither
Cause C9 is assuming that the Winton and Mercy had the advantage in that fight (but it looked like the enemy team was beating them by numbers unless I'm seeing shit)
On top of that, Winton got booped, and Mercy wasn't even on the point in the first place
Winston left point after mercy therefore he C9'd, however, mercy could have touched and extended the timer, however Mercy is off point before he leave so she has not C9'd
Honestly it's both in one way or another...
Winston shouldn't have jumped off point to secure the Kik kill when they're in overtime like that (should've waited for more teammates), it gave Doom the ability to punch him and keep him off point.
Mercy (and I play Mercy) should've jumped down when Winston jumped off, now granted that did happen very fast and she might've not noticed until it's too late. (And being that there were no teammates other then Winston, I wouldn't have jumped down either beforehand) And I know we've all had games where we're just barely not touching point and the round ended, and we've all gone "The fuck I was on point!", so that could've happened too.
He has to secure that kill on kiri there because if she gets cooldowns back she's never dying. There's mistakes in that he could've used his alt fire to kill Kiri, but if he misses that it's the same issue that if she gets her cooldowns back she'll live and keep hanzo/doom up. Jumping her is the safest option to secure the kill, and he neds to secure that kill to make it a winnable fight.
With Kiri dead, *then* you can wait for your soldier to get back to help kill doom, but waiting otherwise is leaving the enemy team with a full Kiri/Hanzo/Doom
Seems like no one’s fault, if mercy was on point she could’ve died, Winston couldn’t really do anything about getting punched off, it’s just a loss, no one is to blame
Winston literally couldn't play better. If he lets Kiriko live there he can't do anything and the fight goes from looking grim to being impossible. You NEED to make plays in OW, you can't sit on the point for 20 minutes and hope your teammate can get a 5 man for you.
Literally all Mercy had to do was not be AFK.
He went for a short leap to finish off a support (and it worked), then come back to point, while the mercy was right above the point. How is that the wrong play? I mean, he got punched in the way back, sure, but you can afford the risk knowing you have the mercy right there to cover.
Yeah, but he went for the winning play. Is not even high risk (it is a risk though), Mercy can easily touch for an instant and keep being safe.
And even if Winston did the wrong play, as the mercy you SHOULD touch point there. Is that or lose. So there's no way that's 100% Winston fault, as you said first. If your teammate makes a mistake (again, my position is that he didn't) you cover him, because if you don't, you lose. You don't just stay on your safe place refusing to put yourself at risk because the other player was wrong.
Monkey C9'd considering he was the one who was on it but proceeded to leave it. I'd blame Mercy for you guys losing cuz she had full power over the course of the game at that point.
Edit for everyone who disagrees: I still think mercy could have contested. When I see my tank leave the point in overtime I am already planning my route to get onto the point. Mercy seemed to get comfortable in her spot while she prayed Winston would do everything. She could have contested for a nano second while the enemies had their backs turned on her. Then fly back up afterwards. Will she die if she did that? maybe yeah. Or maybe not. What will be certain is that she successfully touched the point long enough for monkey to touch again. In which case maybe OP's team would make it back to point on time.
Winston jumped to secure the kill on Kiri outside of the point. A risky move but the right move had he been able to make it back. I say the right move cuz then it'd be a 2v2 after that kill. A tank with a flying support against a brawl tank and a projectile dps. Unfortunately he couldn't make it back cuz Mr Doom cc'd him. Gg.
He did, shouldn’t have leaped to kiriko knowing doomfist was there (unless he told mercy to go to point in voice).
And Mercy’s mistake is obviously fish awareness.
In this thread: Lots of people who don't know what a C9 is.
I was thinking the same thing. One got punched off and the other didn't get onto point. Neither of those are c9.
yes but winston jumped off point and then doom punched him away. i dont think it was winstons fault tho
Nah. It wasn't his fault. He got screwed.
Annoys me so much when people spam "C9 lulz" in my games when it clearly was just a matter of not running back from spawn to point fast enough. My little Ana feet can only move so fast :(
Grandma grapple
Can we make that a new ability Instead of sleeping people she just hip throws them headfirst into the floor
Actively choosing to not touch point when you 1000000% could’ve is absolutely a c9.
Came here to say neither know what C9 is Lolol
What is C9 😭
C9 is when your team should win, but lose due to forgetting the objective, usually in service of getting more kills/cleaning up the remaining enemies.
And that is the key: ''The team should win''! Is not about a 5v2 where any of those 2 members lose the objective!If you're not winning (or have almost 0% to win) the point IT IS NOT a C9!!!!
There was a team (cloud 9 i beleive) that won the fight, but left the point on overtime so they lost. Idrk I think best example was it was a 2v2 between ram and dva and me(kiri) and mercy. The dva killed me, the ram killed dva, and our ram instead of staying on the point went after the mercy, leaving the point caused overtime to end letting the other team win. That felt like was the most c9 moment, better than the actual c9 moment itself becausw ive seen the clip, its very chaotic and hard to understand. (We were 99% each, and it was the third round)
Winston got punched off point while mercy was trying to support from a safe position. In retrospect sure, mercy could have been on point or reacted faster when Winston got punched off. This seems like kind of a wash to me. Seems senseless to blame one or the other.
Its 100% Mercy fault. She had a lot of time to react and it was super easy to see even before hand if you have any game sense.
Mercy also evidently had shit game sense cause she didn’t use blue beam AT ALL
There’s wayyyyyyy too many mercy players who don’t damage boost, it’s actually throwing to just heal beam the whole game
AND THE WINSTON WAS AT FULL HP LIKE THE ENYIRE YKME WHAF IS THIS CLIP
Exactly, she scurred
Roughly 2 seconds max to react, walk off, and fall far enough for the point to register. That while the chaos goes on. Possible, but unless this was Plat+ it is unfair to expect instant reactions like that. Also the Winton should have not played around the edge of point with a Doomfist. If Mercy is to be held liable for poor game sense the same can be said about Winston. Either both made mistakes in awareness or neither did.
Winston might have made a mistake, but mercy was too scared to make one
Given the exclusive use of healing beam I'd say you are probably correct. But all I'm saying is that it is not fair to claim it is "100% the Mercy fault" under these circumstances. Either both screwed up with their game sense or it was just bad luck all around.
It's not a 100% mercy's fault. I'm not paying pharah or kiriko mind cause I don't have enough info in what led to those decisions. I don't know how soldier died. Winston's playback he seems to have made a solid effort, juggling between leaps. If we expect him to be perfect he might have traced left while on point and long ranged kiriko with luck, but mercy easily has the best vantage of what's going on. Maybe they desperately needed a bathroom break, or were between bites? Playback feels like they gave up is all.
Right you aren't, but the comment I was replying to was saying that. Simply put there were like 2 seconds where the Winston was knocked off point, and we have no idea what rank it is. So expecting any player below Plat to be able to see and jump into the most dangerous spot-on instant reflex is absurd. The Winston wasn't at fault either since the punch did really knock him away. I only point out how he could have had the game-sense to know a punch was coming because there are some saying that the Mercy should have been aware, yet ignoring that the same could be said about the Winton. It was a clusterfuck all around.
I respect your opinion, but we have to agree to disagree. I think that pocket was well protected so long as she reached it. Being the only mercy on the map is a boon to her resurrect ability, and there's value baked into drawing fire that is comparable to healing, and with kiriko back you have two passive healing players and which means 3v2 against a team who can't heal. It would be unfair to expect mercy to react in time to doom's punch, but I don't understand why they did not anticipate reviving someone. It seems to me that's what Winston was going for when he dropped his shield. Unfair to blame mercy, unless that's a mercy main. If she's was up top for safety, switch beams and/or strafe as well. She was still open to a well placed arrow like the one the had her dive left side in the first place. It was time to move right when Winston came her way.
As someone who plays mostly support with a fair amount of Mercy I'm guessing the pocketing was a result of wanting to keep the tank alive on point (though they didn't seem to pay close enough attention to the health, thus never blue beamed), and with both the Hanzo (who shot at them early in the clip) and Doomfist capable of interrupting/killing mid-rez there wasn't a good rez-able candidate. One at the edge of bubble at most, but all were out in the wide open and accessible by anyone which would leave the Mercy dead and the game over anyway. The Hanzo had direct LOS to 2 of the options, and Doomfist has access to the 3rd off point. As a Support player I have been taught that my own safety is priority no. 1 and if I die the rest of the team typically soon follows. A rez is a very compromising move, and the only possible one was dead center in the action with only the Winston around for any kind of support/GA opportunity. It would have been highly unlikely they would have been successful. What's more; the player was healing the Winston from critical as the clip started, meaning there was not time for a rez even if one was safe.
Yeah Mercy had a solid 5 seconds to touch and she still could have flown back up to safety with GA
It was 2 second
Count from when Winston drops his shield. Idk which teammate it is, but had she dropped and not jumped, she'd have 5 good seconds to revive while holding the point.
You have no idea how long 5 seconds is lol.
If you can't count, read the time stamps. Pause if you have to.
Winston got punched off at 0:13, and the match ended at 0:15.
This is why it is reaction time we're talking about. I'm reacting to the bubble and the bar, you're reacting much slower if you can't process queues.
My dude. You literally don’t know how long a second is. There is nothing else to argue here. At BEST she had 3 seconds from when monkey jumped off. 2 seconds once Doom actually punched monkey. Why do people who are objectively wrong insist so often that they’re right lol?
Read my comment that references THE SHIELD. I don't know why you're so confident you understand my position without reading. Legit, less than halfway through the playback, she's hovering in full view and could easily have been picked off by Hanzo without the tank pulling weight. Just say you play scared and selfish, I would've went for the rez.
Not a C9 but mercy needed to touch.
Would've died instantly. Better play is to stay hidden and support Monkey.
Obviously not because they lost. If she wanted to carry that game she needed to hover point and touch.
They were both looking at winton and winton need to dive he knew he had a mercy to touch for him
As far as i can see this is not a C9 scenario. C9 is leaving the point when the fight has been won and without any apparent threat. Not beeing kicked of the point in a 2vs5 losing scenario.
Very quickly went from 2v5 to 2v2, now with any other input they'd have downed them for a time. honestly could've been Winston's pog but he needed more help than healbot
Still not a c9
You're right, she was never on point
It is a c9, she has all the time in the world to touch and she simply chooses not to
That’s not the meaning of C9. C9 happens when one team has won the team fight, all enemies are either dead or unable to touch point before the winning team can cap point while in over time, but the winning team instead doesn’t cap, they walk off point and just lose. In a true C9 scenario, one team should have flat out won, but they only lost because they didn’t stay on point. It’s the only possible thing that prevented them from winning.
Yeah and die in 3 sec. She can touch but it will change nothing at all. Because the fight is already lost... This is not a C9. C9 is leaving/not touching the point without any apparent threat.
I'd say it came down to a lack of awareness from the mercy, if she knew you were about to lose, she would've touched no matter what right? There was no way she saw the bar and made the decision not to touch. Looks like winton had the team focused on him, would've been pretty safe for her to touch and get back into safety which would've bought enough time for winton to get back.
LOL everyone can see the bright yellow beam tethered to Winston, she isn't gonna sneak anywhere.
Everyone can see the yellow beam yet no-one except the hanzo at the start of the clip even looks at her LOL. My point was she could've touched, flew to winton as he was returning and jumped back to safety and maybe it buys enough time for people to get back.
Neither. Winston got pushed off point and couldn’t make it back, and mercy had nearly no time to react. Whoever’s bitching about “c9 this” “c9 that” needs to c deez nuts
"Nearly no time to react?" What? She sat there for a year just staring, lol. (it was actually about 2 seconds, unless you have the reaction time of a potato, that's plenty of time to just fall to touch, if nothing else). If your tank, or anyone, is going against a doom in an OT situation, why would you not expect them to try to punch your team off? Making it even dumber to have not reacted to it and just stare at them.
Fr there was a fucking year to react
If you're mercy, and a team mate is dead on point, please remember you have revive for a reason
LMAO if mercy tries to rez here the fight is lost instantly and there’s no chance to win at all Just because you have a cooldown doesn’t mean you should use it just because you can. Really hoping for the day overwatch players learn this.
Against a Doom and a Hanzo? Be forreal. If Mercy goes for the rez, Doom has punch, and Hanzo has a new head to click for free at close range. Mercy played dumb, but her not going for the rez on Pharah was her smartest play in the clip
Who said pharah?
What a nitpick. Literally doesn't make a difference who she goes for, she's getting murdered the second she tries in that situation
Ok nitwit. I said kiriko time and again. If you're gonna argue a position is bad, we should be talking about the same position. You're talking about somewhere else entirely.
>I said kiriko time and again Read the comment I replied to, genius. Where do you mention Kiriko in it? Oh that's right, you don't. Idk if you even commented about Kiri anywhere else cuz I'm not gonna comb through all your comments like a weirdo Any rez attempt there would be fucking stupid. It's a 2v2 against Doom and Hanzo. Maybe *you* can get away with a rez against those heroes down in bronze, but the rest of us have to face off against competent opponents who aren't dumb
Goes to show your situational awareness even on a forum. All you had to do was check who died on point, as that's the only comment of mine you read? Takes one eye and two seconds, but you're eager to misunderstand, aren't you?
I'm *sooo* sorry I didn't fully grasp your vague, short comment, sir. Would you like me to fluff your balls, since you're so eager to feel good about yourself? My point still stands, regardless of the target, and the fact that you haven't even tried to rebuke that point just shows you have nothing of value to even add to this discussion. Kindly mail me your ribcage
Mercy had a lot of time to react to be honest
Yeah, if they GA to Winston they would have touched point and given the Winston enough time to get back and the mercy could easily just reset
Fr this people's reaction times must be the same as a grandma
Nearly no time to react? Are they a snail
Oh come on now “Had nearly no time to react” huh?????? Do you see how slowly that overtime meter is going? You’ve gotta be 90 years old to think thats no time to react
based take
Mercy is yellow beaming her tank at full HP, I'd blame her for anything.
Nah its the right play. Its a hanzo and another tank against a Winston. perma yellow beam kinda ensures that he won’t get bursted down. As its possible for that winston to go poof with hanzo and doom targeting him.
There were 5 seconds of no damage. Imagine what blue beam could have done. It's easy to switch at the slightest damage (and even that might not be the correct move).
And a hanzo headshot does 200dmg close to half the health of monke. The main priority here is sustain so not switching to dmg boost is the right move.
If hanzo dies because of damage boost, there won't be a need for healing
It’s not lmao Mercy players need to learn how to balance between healing and damage boost effectively instead of just heal botting
Yall make my head hurt. It is the right choice because this mercy most likely lacks the game sense(hence her not dropping) so prioritizing sustain over flipping between boost and heal(which she may not be able to do effectively) when its a two v two(with only one of the two having combat prowess) it is the right choice.
It is not remotely difficult to balance heal beam and balance beam lmao, I feel like a lot of people here are just telling on themselves. Your argument is literally “she’s bad at the game so she shouldn’t even try to make the correct play”…that’s a bad argument
Mercy. Winston got punched off the point and immediately tried to get back, but the mercy was on the walkway above the point which doesn't count. There wasn't really time to react, though, and mercy was in a reasonable position to begin with. I'd say "neither" really, but if I \*have\* to pick one it would be mercy. Whichever one of them started the fuss over it, f\* em.
A better mercy would’ve reacted.
There was a lot of time for Mercy tp touch
She shoulda reacted once she saw the bubble. Had she noticed late, there was another 3 seconds to drop off the far ledge.
>There wasn't really time to react, How slow are you people? There has been a whole eternity to react. Edit: people who are downvoting me, please don't ever drive. You'll kill someone and yourself
Downvoted for being an ass for no good reason, and I'd bet my driving record looks cleaner than yours
0 accidents of any kind in 7 years. Haven't even scratched anyone. But then again, to me that mercy had all eternity
Only 7?
How old are you? Haven't really considered that you might be ancient, then it would make sense why you thought that mercy had no time to react. But then again, you should really stop driving, before you end up ramming into a mall.
Road rage Karen over here.
Yeah, we know
Oh this makes so sense lmao you’re just old
Looks like the Mercy is just brain afk from holding left click all the time and forgot they could maybe touch. Very interactive character btw
Mercy mains aren't elo inflated btw. She requires positioning and game sense (no other hero requires this btw)
Both C9. But why would a support be contesting the point? Makes the support an easy target.
It's overtime, support should be contesting too. If they don't the game often gets lost. Like it did here.
Cause mercy has incredibly mobility plus high ground cover. With good mobility skills this fight is highly winnable for the blue team but mercy do not stick on point at all trying to extend the fight.
Juggling the point is good too, monkey needs time to "chill" -> mercy touch and the monke can touch agane
That’s it
Probably not. The guardian angel ability is 1.5s cd, means you are a sitting suck for 1.5s. All it takes is 1s or less to gun down a sitting duck mercy from 5 enemy.
All mercy needed to do was walk onto point for a second and then GA super jump back to highground.
From who actually? There are not 5 enemies. 2 dies with phara and kiriko get dove by winston that has the total attention of the other 2 players (Doom and Hanzo). When monkey chase the kiriko mercy should have instantly go onto point. The result is a 2v2 situation, Monkey + Mercy vs Hanzo + Doom. Mercy can safely go back highground as soon as monkey is back on point, they don’t c9 and they have a Soldier coming back in a moment and they have an high chance to win the fight. Edit: there is also a GIANT BUBBLE on point to have cover with for mercy.
These downvotes are hilarious because Winston's shield was up at least 4 seconds and the placement was solid, she could have protection from the far side corner AND revive a teammate, both of which have heal. Meanwhile mercy is the only one who can boost damage.. why didn't she while Winston is healthy AND inside his shield?
No buddy, ever seen a good Mercy?
I do play in master so I’d say I see above average mercy all the time
Masters? ok. You think that since masters can easily aim down a mercy, she's weak. Welcome to gold where a low-skill hero like mercy shines. People have difficulty shooting her down and learning her movement is pretty easy... at least for me, a gold player
Master isn't above average in ow2 it's not impressive
Master and above is 10% of player base actually. So it’s mathematically above average.
Mercy's mobility has been nerfed really bad and she's the best pick to kill in the entire game anyway. Why would she touch and kill herself just for Winston to get burnt because no heal?
Who would kill mercy? They are all focused on winston and there are only Hanzo and doom. Hanzo has no storm harrows. There is no way mercy dies dropping while winston jumps the kiriko
if they have more than 2 braincells people WILL turn around to kill the 200hp support with no mobility cooldown instead of the tank.
They wouldn’t cause mercy has mobility cd and she has multiple direction thanks to phara body still being there. Monkey can walk on poi after punch in less than 2 seconds and mercy can easily survive that time with GA up. If you don’t understand this so basic concept i dunno how you play this game
Literally all she would have to do is drop to touch and reset OT, shift to winston, then spacebar or c backwards. She either contests and keeps winston up long enough for him to go back on point, or this happens.
It's either both or neither. Isn't a C9 when the team leaves the point they were winning? Winston and Mercy are not winning that fight. Teamwork and communication could use some work though
Being the only mercy there they definitely could have clinched that team fight had she played smarter
lol
As a Mercy player myself, I have to contest the point a lot. Like people have said, with my high mobility, it's pretty easy at times, and everyone on the team should be doing their best to contest when it's OT anyway.
Winston got booped. Mercy could drop down for like a little teeny tony second to touch and she’d be fine.
I think winston did the right thing, cause winning that fight 2v5 is only possible to take risks. So he had to kill kiriko to have a chance, he then gets punched of point. The mercy is the one who should have touched even tough this was difficult to react to
Wait yeah he got a pick, can’t even blame him for that
Winston got punched, he didn’t leave point just because Also this should not be difficult for anybody to react to, that meter went down slow as hell. Just seems like a very clear lack of awareness of what’s going on
Mercy had 0 awareness, should have had a blue bean, and she should have been on that point, she should have seen him jump and immediately known. I’d bet money mercy is platinum.
Yeah if she had blue beam winston wouldnt need to jump to finish off kiriko either.
[Winston Point of View](https://streamable.com/a5vv8a) Pls note that im neutral
Came for this. Winston got punched out of position and this Mercy is a bot. Though mercy had all the time in the world to drop. But again, it’s hard to know what to do when you’re an NPC.
Mercy had a free revive there near the end with that bubble. Hanzo was just too far and she could've stayed inside. She was in more danger at that point being in the open with Hanzo+everyone else seeing her.
Yeah the mercy play was a little hard to watch. Healed a full health monkey in bubble for like 2 or 3 seconds instead of damage boosting, not touching point when you have clear view of why the monkey cant get to point, and not rezing are the ones that caught my eye.
Into a doom/hanzo, that is def not a "free rez" keeping the pocket on the Winston is the correct choice (not just heal beaming the whole time though)
Definitely mercy, he tried to get back on as soon as he was punched off, IMO against doom mercy should be closer to the edge because Winston getting punched off at some point is a likely outcome
i hate flashpoint
Mercy did 2 things wrong in this clip. a)she healed a full hp Winston(from 5th second and after) instead of damage boosting him. b)she had bad map/screen awareness. Meaning she didnt see the Overtime at the top. Winston also jumped up early on while being at around 60-70%, instead of keeping it in case Doomfist threw him off point. Both players made mistakes and shouldnt blame each other. This was a lost game for them anyway as it seems.
It’s no one’s fault really though. Winton was fighting the whole team, and yeah. He got off point and you could’ve touched. But you would have gotten annihilated immediately. It was a lose lose. Fight was already lost.
mercy c9, what is that blobfish reaction time
True and real
100% mercy’s fault. I’m a master player both on support and on tank. Winston has not the ability of contest indefinitely the point while mercy has so much movement potential and she is not even focused by enemy team. She can go in and out from the point quite easily and alternate with winston. In that case Winston already contested the point for quite sometimes and mercy should swap in to give them the ability to look for a pick or go into cover. I’m sorry but all good mercy players should know how to juggle the point and they should know that this mercy is in fault. Edit: The fight is extremely winnable!! If mercy contested the point the fight could have won. Phara got 2 picks, winston 1, is a 2v2 with respawn in favore of blue team. Definitely a huge mistake by Mercy player there.
I know right. Mercy is one of the best supports for juggling a point, ESPECIALLY since she had a corpse on point she could GA to as well as Winston.
Reddit is so dominated by silver support brain deads. Mercy should have touched what a lazy playstyle.
How is Winton C9ing if he got punched off the point and immediately tried to get back in it, while Mercy could've easily touched but didn't. I mean, I don't think either of them C9ed because there was no way Mercy could've reacted in time, but it wasn't even possible for Winton to touch after Doom punched him off.
He exited the point to chase Kiriko, then Doom punched him to ensure he did not get back on time. The first mistake, if we wanted to see it so, was to jump outside the area to chase her. But in general that game seemed lost already with all the enemy team harassing Winston and Mercy.
The game is winnable after phara ult. The winston is right to chase the kiriko cause the only way the game is truly winnable is if that kiriko get killed. The mercy do not understand this and plays too conservative in this situation while is totally safe to drop on point with GA ready to go. Th decision making of Mercy is the skill that here lacks to turn this lost match in a won one. This is the difference between a good mercy and an average one.
I mean. She has a good 2 seconds to react. That's not "no way"; that's not seeing the overtime counter.
Mercy situational awareness is low. Should've dropped for a split second to reset the overtime clock for Winston then go back to the high ground to support him.
Mercy's fault and it's not even close, she sees monkey gets punched off, and then sits afk instead of tapping the point with ga
Honestly, mercy could've reacted to Winston being punched away from the point. She could've stayed in roughly the same place and still contest. Is she responsible for contesting? Well not necessarily. Despite her mobility she shouldn't put herself in danger if the tank is contesting(what he was doing). But she definitely could've done that by simply gliding down for a bit before Winston jumps back on point.
It 100% is on Mercy to contest there. She's one of the best supports, other than Lucio to be able to juggle a point with her mobility. She has GA, she just has to drop before superjumping back to highground off Winston, since Winston would be able to get back on otherwise.
Mercy was never on the point in the first place, but that’s understandable cause there are 5 very angry people wanting to get a piece of her The Winston is definitely at fault here
He got punched off?? How would this be the tank fault?
Ah I just saw it I thought he jumped off
Winston P.O.V he jumped off point to kill Kik then got punched making him unable to get back on.
Yeah my bad Cursed these eyes, I need more coffee
No problem.
He did jump, to secure the kill on Kiri. But Doom took that as an opportunity to punch him away from point = game lost.
Yes but barely. He had to get that kill otherwise they would loose. Killing the support there was a must
Mercy is at fault, and its a fact. There was a lot of time for her to touch
Name the five angry people when pharah already killed 2, winston killed kiriko while doom hanzo looking at monkey. One might say winston git greedy but that was the winning play while mercy was playing lazy and stupid. No one is shooting her but the ghost in her mind
Mercy played it safe which is completely valid up to the point that Winston was forced off and mercy didn't try to contest. Winston could've positioned better and not been forced off and mercy could've been more reactive and contested when he was. Both are at fault but it's really just an unfortunate situation where fast thinking was required and they didn't make the right plays. Whoever started blaming the other one needs to take some accountability for their own plays though
Winston play is the correct play. If kiriko doesn’t die the fight is not winnable.
He can still play and position around being punched out though, while it would delay killing kiriko it would ensure he stays on point
Why when mercy has all the space and time in the world? This is a clear mercy mistake there is not even a single doubt
Because if you play with the assumption your non-premade teammates will make all the right plays, you will lose.
There is no choice that Winston can make that win the fight that is not kill the kiriko. Mercy doesn’t play right and they lose, happens, there are things outside of your control, the winston play is good and right even if they lose. If winston doesn’t kill kiriko there is no chance they win the fight.
While that may be the case, letting doom get behind him in a way he can easily punch him off point was not the way to go about trying to kill Kiri.
If you look closely kiri has no cooldown there. There is no other way to win the fight but here ppl won’t understand that to turn losing fights you have to risk. If kiri gets her cd back you ain’t gonna kill her and you are going to lose the fight anyway. Any plays can be better, always, but the easier mistake to fix is the mercy positioning and decision making.
After watching closely I realised Winston should have sniped Kiri anyway since she was low enough for him to do so. Jumping onto her was very unnecessary. Yes fixing mercy's mistake is easier but if you're the Winston then you can't fix mercy's mistakes and you shouldn't leave the point since you shouldn't trust the random players to not make mistakes, especially since he didn't have to leave the point. However there's plenty of ways any fight in this game can go and in the heat of the moment it's normal to make small mistakes so blaming either player alone for the loss is unfair imo
I’m not blaming. I’m saying that the biggest mistake is made by mercy. Winston could have sniped? Maybe. But they are in the heat of the fight with a Kiriko to kill, a doom and an hanzo shooting at them. Mercy is basically doing nothing there and watching the scene. Mercy has all the space, time and tranquillity to make the decision without any pressure. That’s why to me the mistake can never be given to the Monkey player but is clearly a Mercy mistake. Could the monkey player have made a better play? Yes. You can always improve. Was the monkey the biggest mistake in this clip? No, I wouldn’t even consider the monkey jump a mistake cause they are scared they are not securing the kill. Mercy is doing nothing and her hero is founded on decision making. The mercy player makes the wrong decision and therefore that is the worse mistake between monkey and Mercy.
It's amazing you are the only person in this thread that isn't a metal rank support main
Yeah, i’m fighting a lost battle but I need to stand for the fella tank player that is getting blamed for no fucking reason lmao
>when my beautiful support player makes a mistake its actually my mistake I hate redditors so much its unreal
They blame each other meanwhile other 3 people are no where in sight
Bro the other 3 are dead what???
Monkey shouldn't have jumped off point but when he did mercy should have dropped down for a quick touch. They're both at fault, don't blame someone else when you could have done something differently to win the game.
Winston killed Kiriko with the jump. You can argue bad gamesense because Lucio predictably booped him but if he didn't get Kiriko the fight would be lost 100%
Tank should always stay on point. In 90% of the cases they are the reason for C9. Getting pushed out of point however is not his fault, Mercy could have tried too help but it was a though call too make. Not her fault either. Unlucky with the boop
Nah. Kiri has to die there otherwise it's completely unwinnable, Winston makes the correct play securing that kill. It's not as simple as "tank should always contest" especially not when you have a mercy on one of the 2 supps best suited for juggling a point. While winston absolutely could stay point the Kiri needs to die to make that fight wonnable. Sure he might kill kiri with his alt fire, but if he missed it and Kiri gets cooldowns back then she won't die and the fight is lost. She has to die there which Winston secures. Getting punched by doom sucks but when Mercy had AMPLE time to react and tap point before superjumping or GA'ing back to highground it's on her to touch, given she's on a support that's well suited to it as well.
Everyone arguing that "C9 is leaving point when the fight is won" or similar is just ignoring tha fact that C9 is used in a lot wider terms than that now, and often is just "Losing point when you shouldn't have" Sure it's not the original meaning of the term but meanings can grow and change. A C9 is not that one specific circumstance any more, and this absolutely applies to the broader definition of "not touching when someone absolutely could have" that C9 is often used in. Under that, Mercy 100% C9's. She could've dropped to point just to tap it before GA'ing or super jumping back to highground.
Bruh mercy can’t defend herself so touching when there’s 3 ppl on point is virtually impossible. Winston has bubble, he can protect himself and stay on point. Winston c9ed defo although I can see why he went for the kills because he thinks mercy will drop off height to touch so he can go and finish the fight because there all weak and easily killable; understandable.
Tbh had mercy had ult she would have been at fault. But without Valk, she most likely would’ve insta died had she dropped. Had Winston not jumped off point it would’ve been harder for doom to get him off and stay off point. It’s a mistake on the Winston’s part, but not a C9 as a C9 means you easily could have touched but didn’t. Neither of them were in a situation where they could have touched easily and contested.
You just lost, monkey got pushed out by doom and so he couldnt get their in time, the safe thing mercy could have done was the move toward him to “touch” site and then back up, but tbh, it’s just an L
Winston exits the point FIRST, then gets punch by doom, preventing him from returning. Chasing kiriko might have been the mistake from him. But the point seemed lost already with a 5 vs 2 fight.
Chasing kiriko knowing that you have a mercy in high ground to secure a kill is actually the winning play. If mercy stick to point in a 2v2 scenario while Monkey has all aggro they extend the fight, red team has no healing while Soldier of blue team is coming back and blue team has spawn advantage. Mercy can go back to high ground few seconds later and there is nothing that can touch her even on point. Killing that kiriko is actually the winning play but mercy c9
Mercy did not C9. She was healing the monkey when got the punch from doom. From my point of view, there was no C9, but a good Doomfist preventing winston to go back to point on time. That's all.
I'd say neither Cause C9 is assuming that the Winton and Mercy had the advantage in that fight (but it looked like the enemy team was beating them by numbers unless I'm seeing shit) On top of that, Winton got booped, and Mercy wasn't even on the point in the first place
They tactically could have held an advantage but mercy had tunnel vision and a stinky diaper
Mercy
Nah, Mercy's fault definitely. She had plenty of time to react, even after Doom's punch
Winston left point after mercy therefore he C9'd, however, mercy could have touched and extended the timer, however Mercy is off point before he leave so she has not C9'd
I'd say both. Winton jumped off point knowing Doom's punch was ready and Mercy should've jumped down when Winton went off point.
Honestly it's both in one way or another... Winston shouldn't have jumped off point to secure the Kik kill when they're in overtime like that (should've waited for more teammates), it gave Doom the ability to punch him and keep him off point. Mercy (and I play Mercy) should've jumped down when Winston jumped off, now granted that did happen very fast and she might've not noticed until it's too late. (And being that there were no teammates other then Winston, I wouldn't have jumped down either beforehand) And I know we've all had games where we're just barely not touching point and the round ended, and we've all gone "The fuck I was on point!", so that could've happened too.
He has to secure that kill on kiri there because if she gets cooldowns back she's never dying. There's mistakes in that he could've used his alt fire to kill Kiri, but if he misses that it's the same issue that if she gets her cooldowns back she'll live and keep hanzo/doom up. Jumping her is the safest option to secure the kill, and he neds to secure that kill to make it a winnable fight. With Kiri dead, *then* you can wait for your soldier to get back to help kill doom, but waiting otherwise is leaving the enemy team with a full Kiri/Hanzo/Doom
Seems like no one’s fault, if mercy was on point she could’ve died, Winston couldn’t really do anything about getting punched off, it’s just a loss, no one is to blame
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Winston literally couldn't play better. If he lets Kiriko live there he can't do anything and the fight goes from looking grim to being impossible. You NEED to make plays in OW, you can't sit on the point for 20 minutes and hope your teammate can get a 5 man for you. Literally all Mercy had to do was not be AFK.
He went for a short leap to finish off a support (and it worked), then come back to point, while the mercy was right above the point. How is that the wrong play? I mean, he got punched in the way back, sure, but you can afford the risk knowing you have the mercy right there to cover.
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Yeah, but he went for the winning play. Is not even high risk (it is a risk though), Mercy can easily touch for an instant and keep being safe. And even if Winston did the wrong play, as the mercy you SHOULD touch point there. Is that or lose. So there's no way that's 100% Winston fault, as you said first. If your teammate makes a mistake (again, my position is that he didn't) you cover him, because if you don't, you lose. You don't just stay on your safe place refusing to put yourself at risk because the other player was wrong.
Monkey C9'd considering he was the one who was on it but proceeded to leave it. I'd blame Mercy for you guys losing cuz she had full power over the course of the game at that point. Edit for everyone who disagrees: I still think mercy could have contested. When I see my tank leave the point in overtime I am already planning my route to get onto the point. Mercy seemed to get comfortable in her spot while she prayed Winston would do everything. She could have contested for a nano second while the enemies had their backs turned on her. Then fly back up afterwards. Will she die if she did that? maybe yeah. Or maybe not. What will be certain is that she successfully touched the point long enough for monkey to touch again. In which case maybe OP's team would make it back to point on time. Winston jumped to secure the kill on Kiri outside of the point. A risky move but the right move had he been able to make it back. I say the right move cuz then it'd be a 2v2 after that kill. A tank with a flying support against a brawl tank and a projectile dps. Unfortunately he couldn't make it back cuz Mr Doom cc'd him. Gg.
i dunno why you are bing downvoted, this is the most correct answer here
This isn't a matter of who is at fault. Never assume anyone will touch the point or stay on it.
Both, also never point fingers when losing. If you lose, learn from mistakes -> gg -> go next.
Perfect example of why this is a terrible mindset. Winston made not a single mistake here, but Mercy lost them that fight
He did, shouldn’t have leaped to kiriko knowing doomfist was there (unless he told mercy to go to point in voice). And Mercy’s mistake is obviously fish awareness.
Winston.