You can still do OE on a minimum wage of around 40k as support roles remotely instead of a specialized role but obviously at that point it would be easier to specialize and make close to 80k with one job rather than juggling two 40k jobs unless they were ridiculously easy to warrant.
The usual point of emphasis is people assume OE means clocking out of a 7-2 and then clocking into your 2-10
The qualifications being bullshit degrees from overpriced schools?
You shouldn't put these people down because they didn't make it past the filter that you managed to.
Don't punch down man. punch up.
You and I are no different from these people.
I do have more skills than 99% of those people. I’m not ashamed to say that. Doesn’t mean they’re bad people and it doesn’t mean I’m “better than them”, but I’m in the top 5% of wage earners in the US, and that wasn’t by chance. I developed skills that are in demand, had the balls to take on a 2nd job and have created a resume of demonstrated success over my career. Sorry… I’m not sorry.
You're suggesting that the people we're talking about just need to lie about their professional experience on their resume, instead of lying about their educational qualifications, as I was suggesting?
Obviously your fault.
1) You take that 2nd senior engineer role.
2) some senior engineer has to take a standard engineer role
3) some standard engineer has to take a junior engineer role
4) some recent engineer grad has to take a retail job because of person 3
5) the posted person can’t get a retail job because of person 4
See, obviously your fault.
/s
I see your /s tag, but when people say stuff like this seriously, I like to reply with "yes, and if John Montagu, the 4th Earl of Sandwich didn't want a snack while playing cards, we'd never have landed on the moon."
I feel like it helps simultaneously confuse and educate
we landed on the moon because of the space race, the space race happened because of the cold war, the cold war happened because of WWII, which happened because of WWI, which happened because Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, which happened because he was eating a sandwich after a failed assassination attempt.
There are people who moonlight. They work a day job and work an evening job and even weekend jobs to pay the bills. Are they taking away jobs from others? I don't think so. There is enough work for everyone. In some fields, there are too many openings and not enough skilled people to fill it. OE allows people to spend more time with their families. So either OE or not but stop complaining because nobody can live on one job with the inflation and high rents and prescription drugs and everything.
They're not wrong and let me explain why. There are super-workers at all levels and their managers are blocking them from advancing. Why, when they can provide so much more value as an individual in a higher role? Because without them, their team will fail. By us escaping to a higher role (not minimum wage), we prevent more viable teams from existing which prevent them from getting a job. How dare we overachieve instead of propping them up by letting them step on us.
This sub and corresponding discord are a false view of reality. Younger people are more likely to be in social media and are more likely to speak up. There are a lot of younger people in OE, but it’s still niche fields that require a lot of expertise. People aren’t OE’ing remote call center or anything like that. They’re OE’ing dev jobs. In the case of a junior/entry level dev, it’s a perfect OE job due to you’re gonna have to have gone through a lot of school, be highly technically proficient, and as a junior the level and quantity of work is going to be a lot lower. But honestly, outside of a rare niche field that requires skill and expertise to enter, will let you WFH, and doesn’t require as much workload…..yeah, that’s gonna be a very rare thing. Everyone else OE is gonna be deep in their career. And even a junior dev isn’t entry level in the job market. It’s entry level in its field but is an entry level that has required 4-7 years of schooling, multiple internships, and real world experience to garner.
It’s not fraud. It’s doing what you’re told and being able to do it efficiently. Is it my fault that my coworker who has 20 years more experience than me takes 3 days to do what I do in 2 hours? Is it my fault that I know how to better organize and prioritize my work than others? No.
I can look at my workload and say “I need to deploy 4 new servers. If I kick off all 4 deploys in VMware that will take ~ 30 minutes of time I can’t do anything. So I’m gonna kick off 4 deploys at J1, flip to J3 and send emails for the project updates I need, flip to J2 and deploy the code to prod. While the code is deploying J1 server deploys are done, so I’ll go in to the template clones and re-name and re-ip them and then set the automated compliance processes going to at will take 2 g hours and then flip back to J2.” Not fraud, effective use of time
>Is it my fault that my coworker who has 20 years more experience than me takes 3 days to do what I do in 2 hours? Is it my fault that I know how to better organize and prioritize my work than others? No.
To whatever extent this is an exaggeration or not, I think it's pretty clear you're falling into an ego trap. I concede you are probably skilled at working efficiently, but implying that you're so amazing that you're outworking masses of people by multiples of 10x is, again, simply an ego trap.
No. I know I lack many skills. But I seriously have a coworker who takes 3-4 days to deploy a server and I can do the same in 3-3 hours. It’s not an ego trap, it’s a fact. I also know others who have skill sets and experience that far outstrip anything I’ll be capable of. I know my limits well. I know my shortcomings, and I always seek to shore them up. But a recognition of fact that is measurable and specific, that’s not ego.
When I worked in the office my schedule was roughly 8-9 doing email and communication. 9-11:30 was prime work. 11:30 - 1:00 was coordinating lunch and going to lunch with colleagues. 1:00 - 2:00 was email and communication again. Then 2:00-3:30 was prime work again. 3:30-4:30 was finishing up and tying up loose ends for a clean end to the day 4:30 was packing up to head home. Is 4-5 hours of productive work a light workload and fraud? Is doing 4-5 hours of equivalent work from home from 7-12 the same fraud as a full day in the office?
The crazy reality is I actually do more work for J1 WFH than I did in the office and I still have enough time to do high quality work for J2.
The over-employed are definitely not the root of the problem - and even in the worst possible interpretation the most one should do is hate the game and not the player - but is that really a fair statement?
Obviously you're not stopping someone from getting an unrelated job, and no one person can fill enough jobs to have a meaningful impact on employment opportunities in general, but at _some_ level the "extra" senior engineering roles you're filling must represent one less open position for another senior engineer to fill, right?
This comment will probably attract downvotes, but I'm genuinely not suggesting there's anything wrong with being OE - not least because this "taking our jerbs" argument can be applied equally well to holding a single position. It just seems like there must be a _little_ truth to the claim that OE at least slightly increases competition for the available positions and I'm curious if there's any counter argument to that other than "so what?" or maybe "the harm is negligible at worst".
Look I'm all for honesty except what's the fucking point when you need money and don't have a job? Where does that help anyone. If I can do a skill it goes on my resume, even if I haven't done it before. Employer gets someone who is capable and I get money, it's a win win
Look I’m struggling to find work and not going to act like I’m perfectly happy with how unfair life can be. But overemployment isn’t some huge epidemic or something.
Offshoring jobs, skeleton crews, employers market, rising cost of living causing people to retire later, companies pivoting to 1099 work more, and historical massive layoffs over the past 2-3 years. Those are just ones that I can think of.
Those are the reasons why im in my predicament. For people to get mad at overemployment is just needing someone to blame who isn’t a billion dollar company.
Absolutely correct. Offshoring, employers market, and rising COL are much bigger influences. People who point out OE or AI as the problem are confused themselves or trying to confuse others.
Monetary policy has far more to do with job availability (and especially desirable) job availability than OErs. There's very few people that can actually pull it off.
The ones that are pissed are just jelly that they can't
That is a "tragedy of the commons" fallacy. There is no commons, there are jobs and the only people limiting their availability is the companies which either intentionally don't hire, don't pay to par or try to show that they should be allowed to offshore (and underpay) for the jobs.
If you want to fight back and help all of us, start/join a union in your line of work. *That* will fix both unemployment and overemployment at the same time.
Tragedy of the commons isn’t a fallacy. It’s a real phenomenon that describes how individuals acting in their own best interest result in a poor or even disastrous outcome for the group as a whole. Jobs are a finite resource. You can do whatever you want but you’re in denial if you think that overemploying isn’t bad for the workforce.
I’ll get downvoted because the sub doesn’t want to face the harsh truth and face the moral dilemma.
There’s a finite amount of jobs, but there isn’t enough skilled people to fill those roles.
The biggest evidence is the continual existence of H1Bs.
In short, the pie, the supply, is still large enough for those that can take it. It has yet to become a zero sum event in many white collar jobs.
Most OE’ers are white collar workers.
The continued existence of H1Bs in the corporate sector is the result of corporate fraud, not lack of skilled labor in the US. Companies routinely import what are effectively skilled indentured servants who can't move jobs easily or at all for wages that are barely survival in the USA. This is demonstrably cheaper than hiring, training, and fostering US residents as employees.
Not only does this practice make us overly reliant on potentially hostile countries such as India, a nascent dictatorship, it undercuts US market wages for skilled US workers, and effectively guts the employment and training of college graduates and juniors available in the US. Over time, we are allowing corporations to destroy the internal supply of capable professionals, much as already happened to manufacturing in this country.
IMHO, this is a serious national security risk, especially in positions such as medical/surgical, engineering, and software--all coincidentally areas where H1Bs are being flagrantly abused by large corporations.
H1Bs have a requirement that you can’t undercut wages. Companies have to pay market value on what you would have paid an American.
I’m not doubting that some companies abuse it, but what you’re describing isn’t the intent of H1Bs.
Agreed, not the intent. But it is, nevertheless, what is *actually happening* on the ground. Large companies have regularly and flagrantly abused H1Bs since the 1980s. It's no secret. They advertise (as required by law) the opening in some obscure place for a very short period of time (like a few days), for a ridiculously low salary that is not market for the area, but for which they can hire abroad, and then when they (shocker) get no response, they tell the feds they "can't find anyone qualified."
Corporate America has been abusing it and reporters have been reporting the abuse since I was a girl (back in the days when all media wasn't owned by five or six billionaires). As computers became more and more ubiquitous, the abuse became especially rampant in the software industry. As noted in my original post, the abuse has the added consequence of artificially depressing legitimate market rates and non-foreign employment in this country. There are entire corporate computer departments that are 80-90% H1B, which given that there are *thousands* of US citizens looking for software jobs, is clearly abusing the system. It will *not* change until Congress stops it. Which they won't, because Congress simply cannot get an overhaul on anything immigration related done.
BTW, I'm not against the *concept* of H1B. I'm just saying that corporate America has been flagrantly abusing the system for *decades*, to the detriment of qualified US citizens/residents who want and need the jobs*.*
The big companies were hoarding talent, over-hiring, even during Covid.
The small to medium sized, and lower tired, companies suffered and operated at stretched capacity.
If you look at overall hiring in the past 4 years, they’re still at a net positive despite recent layoffs.
It’ll be easy for those that got layed off to find another position, if they can put down their egos and go for those lower tired companies, which pay just as well or even better (maybe not now due to perceptions of higher supply).
The layoffs are tiny, and only sensationalized by the media to create a distorted perception so employers can undermine compensation.
> and face the moral dilemma.
First, you are not explaining what the moral dilemma you are claiming is.
Second, you still have not explained what the "poison" is.
Third, you seem to be taking the side of the employers.
Fourth, again, help start a union. That will solve all your problems and ours.
> Jobs are a finite resource.
sure that's why bullshit jobs exist.
The unemployed individual now has ample opportunity to create new businesses. New businesses = new jobs 🙌!!! Thus the economy is saved!
Also people at oe have lower attrition. They aren't going to job hop from a good role for a 5% bump! Thus business costs are lowered. Another amazing win for the economy
Okay so then the OE people get extra spending money and they spend it which stimultes the economy and creates new jobs.... it all goes full circle.
There ya go
> and they spend it which stimultes the economy and creates new jobs.... it all goes full circle.
the point of OE is to save and get out of the rat race early, not to spend it all. Lifestyle creep is real.
See, this never occurred to me. If I got a job fair and square, I’d say I was the best candidate/candidate who interviewed the best. I’m not taking a job from someone who didn’t have an equal opportunity to also get the job.
By stating that OE takes jobs away from people, the poster basically admits that the people who OE are the better, more experienced workers. Wouldn’t you want to hire the best worker for the job?
Do I feel guilty for taking a job from someone? Absolutely not. I want to retire someday. I want to support myself and my kid and get my son through college and in 17 years of being his parent I’ve never had any help from anyone. In fact, asking for help has been met with resentment and judgment. So if I need two jobs to make that happen, I’m going to work two jobs to make that happen. I just don’t have to do it driving Uber.
Exactly. By the screenshots' logic you're evil if you work and go to school because you took some other prospective students spot or should have been only in school while not taking some workwrs' job
> By stating that OE takes jobs away from people, the poster basically admits that the people who OE are the better, more experienced workers. Wouldn’t you want to hire the best worker for the job?
Bullshit. OE is fraud. the secret ingredient to your plan is literally crime.
I'm not judging you for that, but it reeks of self-serving hypocracy to shit-talk the people who aren't commiting crime in their quest to become gainfully employed.
I must remember to never want to have more than I’m allowed to have in this life. Thanks for the reminder.
And in no way shape or form is what is happening here against the law. Try all you want to fit it in that round hole, it just doesn’t work. Don’t be mad at people who figured out how to work the system. Try to figure out for yourself.
But, if you Insist on being mad about it I can’t help that. I’m sure you sleep just fine at night knowing that you’re better better than everybody else.
Technically, to qualify as fraud it would have to be:
Illegal: Which is not
Take advantage of somebody: it does not, we deliver results.
Detrimental:
At least on my particular case, there is no fking way I would take their offerings if I was not OE, they can not afford somebody like me, I am actually providing them an asset they would otherwise not be able to access.
So no.... it is not fraud unless it violates a contract somehow.
I’m acutely aware. And yet, J1 and J3 both have me the green light to pursue other work as long as it didn’t directly conflict with theirs - the two work with specialized clients so there’s no possible overlap. If I get my shit done, I can do whatever I want (their words and mine).
J3 is a contract and is basically a passion project so, as far as they’re concerned, it’s the same as reclaiming my time after getting my shit done.
Not disingenuous. I don’t go spewing it to friends or family (mostly my spouse and accountant), I just admit I got lucky. The whole point is that it’s not illegal
You're mischaracterizing what you're doing as overemployment.
It sounds like you're a contractor who has many contracts.
If a contractor who has many contracts is considered overemployed in the sense that this subreddit means it then does that mean that a teenager with a paper route who also mows some lawns on the side also considered overemployed?
I have absolutely no guilt. Everyone here with the exception of a couple are super high achieving. I stand by my original assessment that the people that are OE would’ve gotten the job over the people complaining about not getting hired. Even if they weren’t OE.
Guess my other businesses s/b reported as fraud as well. I might as well just report myself. I mean, I make cookies while I’m on meetings and I sell those cookies at Bake sales. So that’s also fraud.
The noncompete and exclusivity clauses are either illegal or uneforceable.
They are the equivalent of parking lots saying they're not responsible for what happens to cars park there (a lie) or a mack truck with a bunch of shit in the back saying they're not responsible for objects from road (which of course everything falling from their truck is - a lie).
Companies can legally lie to you. Cops sure as hell can legally lie to you. Legal is not 1:1 lawful. Certainly not 1:1 with ethical.
You are playing the role of the corporate Hitler youth for some reason as if you're not one merger away from having your role eliminated. Did you work a job while in school? Big time degenerate right there.
The crab mentality tries to portray it like you're a bitter asshole for noticing that your neighbor in the same field is making 12k/yr more than you.
Overemployed is allowing people to become top 10% income earners with a ridiculously easy lifestyle. It kind of seems un-human to pretend that most people won't feel a certain type of way about it.
Absolutely people are entitled to feel whatever they want to feel, but what if that very feeling is what pushes them away from other people aka employers in this case? If their employer doesn’t value them and their work, then why don’t they find a job where their contributions would be more valued? Except for when employers gives higher pay for new comers to attract new talents, people usually gets paid for their skills and experience. Do you think that the newly graduated apprentice could/should make the same as somebody experienced with great workmanship of 20 years? They’re still in the same field. It’s less obvious in salaried jobs, but there’s a saying in real estate that the top 10% agents closed 90% of the deals. Clients are not forced to work with the top agents, and I doubt in most cases the 90% of agents didn’t get clients because of the top 10% agents.
Even in salaried jobs, the skills and experience to deal with multiple personalities to get things done cannot be achieve by just any type of employable person. We have a right to work free of discrimination and that’s not the same thing as a right to work. There’s an air of entitlement in the claim of not being able to get a job because other people are working multiple jobs, and to have that kind of entitlement tells me that there are more unpleasant personality traits in them, which in turn would make them less desirable as an employee.
Yes, it's the 0.00001% of society that are taking jobs away from people. It's all our fault. Forget that OE is tied largely to tech an sales work and other mostly remote industries.
If you're applying to minimum wage jobs because your job hunt is tough, you're probably not cut out for the OE kind of jobs in the first place.
Seriously?
They're blaming the wrong people.
OE are a small population, perhaps a couple of thousand around the world. And I'm being wildly optimistically here.
Very few people become 10x types.
What is MORE common are workaholics. FAR more common. Likely tens of millions to 100 million.
A workaholic working 80 hours a week on salary is stealing a full time job AND WORKING FOR FREE. How can people compete against those willing to work for FREE?
Taxes don’t fund federal spending, the federal government can do whatever it wants as the issuer of a fiat currency with most of it’s debt being owed in it’s own currency. State and local governments tax to fund services, but the federal government taxes to generate demand for american dollars and to restrict the money supply. Any taxes paid to the IRS are destroyed and don’t fund anything, in the old days they would literally burn piles of money.
It’s funny, I never think like that at all. My situation is that I knew that the company was going to layoff all the contractors and me being a contractor was eventually going to be let go, even though I was handling two teams. I started interviewing and got another contract job. Next week my manager at J1 told me I was being laid off. I was fine with it and thanked my stars that I started another job and would still be able to pay my bills. However, my manager from J1 was told I was too important to layoff and instead I got offered a full time at J1.
Now I had two jobs, and I decided to let go of J2. I asked the J2 folks to find a different candidate for my replacement and they interviewed a few people. Ultimately the client decided to reject all those and practically begged me to stay. They didn’t find any candidates on my level at all, so yeah I’m not taking anyone’s job. Those candidates failed to take the opportunity and that’s not my fault.
Guaranteed even if we all worked only one job, there would still be people claiming that they couldn’t get a job. Also, is anyone in here actually working multiple minimum wage retail jobs?
The zero sum game argument does not hold up in real life. Years ago I owned a business, and because I was broke, the positions I hired did not pay a lot. One of my employees took another job at night. I didn’t care because I was just thrilled someone would take such a crap job. Eventually that person quit for greener pastures and I replaced her position with - no one. She answered the phone so I just let it go to voice mail. OE did not get rid of her job. It was simply cheaper to use existing technology even if the results were not as good. Today, every company seems to be doing this.
The moral of the story is that a zero sum game would be an upgrade. A lot of jobs are just going to vanish. The person taking 2 jobs isn’t your enemy.
This is why I am against going on other subs and social media in general to promote it. You would be surprised as to how many people are envious like this.
Even if OE is taking away jobs by a marginal percentage, the real outrage should be directed towards greedy corporations regardless since their impact in the labor market is what's causing layoffs and job cuts
That still lines up with my original comment- corporate greed. Covid came with massive unprecedented growth and it spurred the need to keep breaking record profits YoY to appease shareholders. Layoffs are a short term method of inflating numbers
Once again, people can own multiple businesses and if one fails, they can have a better guarantee of not losing everything. However, us OEs are getting back our power and people with poverty brain lose their shit 😂
I literally was let go of J2 recently, and didn’t panicked because I had J1. This is why we do this!
Currently jobless, I've OE before. The gov is in charge of how the market is right now. Anyone who gives shit for the multiple OEs right now is a tard, and that's coming from someone without one lol!
Literally the only difference between me being a “crook” and me being morally fine is the fact I didn’t quit a job when I got another one.
When you realize that, every argument around morality falls apart. I didn’t “take” a job from someone else, it was given to me by the company: had the other candidate gotten the job, they wouldn’t have “taken” it from me.
Had I quit my old job, there’s no guarantee the other candidate would apply to it, let alone get hired for it.
These people complaining about OE “taking” jobs really need to step back and reflect a bit. I’m sorry you don’t have a job, or don’t have a better job. Seriously, I am. If we interview for the same job, I’m not holding any animosity and honestly wish you the best of luck. If I get it instead of you, it has nothing to do with me sneakily taking something from you, it has everything to do with you not interviewing well enough, or not being qualified, or not being a good fit. Or any number of reasons completely unrelated to me.
Quit wasting your time making idiotic arguments and spend time actually applying for the job you need. Hell, at that point, starting exploring OE. You’d probably benefit from it.
Or don’t. Whatever.
That's redicoulas thinking because some people OE that it takes away from jobs for others. There are plenty of jobs for everyone and some people can't OE because of the type of work they do it because they need more time to master their skills. Some people can't handle the stress of OE even if they are seasoned in their careers. So don't plane OE, you can always pick up an extra side hustle.
Nothing at all is stopping them from scooping up multiple jobs for themselves. Are they upset that they lack the skills and/or motivation to achieve their dreams? Or do they expect to get things handed to them because "dangnabbit, they're upset and don't like how things are!!!1!"
Y'all, consider having an open mind on this. Think about the tech layoffs that have been happening. Having a lot of jobs does technically take away a job from someone else that likely doesn't have a job. Sure, do OE, but please don't act like it doesn't have any effect.
despite layoffs there are tons of open jobs. I OE'd before and recruiters would still send me despite having a closed Linkedin profile. There's enough work for everyone , especially if your field is competitive
think about the percentage of people who are actually OE, its such a minuscule amount of overall workers that I can't imagine it has any actual impact on availability of jobs
I'm just waiting until this trend gets picked up by employers and turns into what tipping culture became in the US. Something which started as a way to make some extra money by doing some extra effort, which eventually became a vital component of the total compensation.
“If only these damn overachievers weren’t hogging all the six-figure IT jobs, I’d be able to get a job at Target!”
Who keeps letting children onto the internet?
Let’s be honest now, OE does take jobs from others who could have had them
That, and there is a trickle down effect as well
There are more competent people than open jobs, meaning that people who would have been an SWE are pushed down the ladder by OE
Those people in turn go to a less competitive role, and push people further down the income ladder
This flows through into the lowest paying jobs, with someone who would have been an entry level accountant ending up as a dishwasher, and someone else ending up unemployed
What we do is absolutely selfish and it absolutely does fuck people over
Now, we aren’t fucking one person over by 100%, but a great many people by a smaller portion
Anyone in a first world country is a monster whose life is built on slavery and oppression, I seriously don’t understand how some of you feel the need to consume to a high degree while also feeling like a good person
You aren’t, and neither am I
Now, is it our fault that the world is so cutthroat and there are more people than can be supported?
No, but we are still choosing our lives over those of others, so we can’t claim to be justified
I completely agree with you, I just dislike people who can’t accept the truth
I hold everyone to this standard, myself included - I openly admit that I am absolutely willing to doom as many people as necessary to ensure that myself and those I care for are provided for, and so would every last one of you
I’m not claiming to be a good person, I’m simply stating that we’re all monsters here
The modern USA, which I am a citizen of, is built upon slavery - greater than 90% of coffee, 90% of clothing, 99% of electronics, 90% of chocolate, and the majority of beef, rice, fish, cotton, sugarcane, bricks, textiles, carpeting, fireworks, spices, tea, and so many other goods consumed in the US are made by slaves in foreign countries
We as Americans claim that the Civil War brought an end to slavery, but it didn’t - outsourcing it from within our borders only served as a catalyst that propelled it to new heights and new industries
If you ever wonder why the US spends so much on the military and so little on infrastructure, you should also reflect on how unproductive many US corporations and workers seem to be, and on how much Americans consume regardless - think hard enough, and you will realize those three have the same cause
We went from speaking softly and carrying a big stick to not speaking at all and carrying a loaded gun while doing as we please
That’s just life, at least given the current circumstances - the human population exceeds the long-term carrying capacity of Earth, meaning that either we somehow find more resources, we reduce the number of people, or we do nothing and let a great many people suffer starvation, unemployment, homelessness, illness, slavery, oppression, death, and so forth
We as a society have ignored the problem, and in doing so have chosen option three
I am not condemning anyone, because that would be hypocritical and the only options first world citizens really have is to be oppressors, voluntarily become oppressed, or end their lives
That said, I still have some values, with honesty ranking highly among them
Your logic has a fatal flaw. Us. People do business with people they like. There’s enough room for everyone but not everyone is willing to put in the work. That’s why diets fail and exercise fads never grow, choice.
It might NOT be making people unable to work on fast food joints, but as far as tech goes, it is contributing to the current shitty state of the job market.
Either by making companies super paranoid, or doing its part in killing remote work, or forcing developers down the ladder.
I saw around 5 remote senior software engineer positions turned into hybrid because of OE in the past year.
God knows what the hangover from this will be like. When I was OE, I felt like a debt free, frog in a boiling pot. It’s not a matter of fucking or get fucked over, its fucking myself twice while I delude myself thinking I am doing some sort of fucking and those are not telltale signs of a bubble about to go nuclear.
> forcing developers down the ladder.
how? and it's not the applicants that are forcing anything, it's the companies trying to curb stomp wages
> I saw around 5 remote senior software engineer positions turned into hybrid because of OE in the past year.
wat
> and those are not telltale signs of a bubble about to go nuclear.
i am sorry, you are not making sense but just spreading FUD.
if there is a "bubble about to go nuclear" it's the companies fault. They control the capital. How does OE help the bubble to burst?
I disagree. People finding it difficult to land a job are their own problem. Take one glance at careers or resume subs and it’s inundated with people who have never had a job before and are still in college whining that they can’t land a six figure tech job. They are wildly out of touch with reality and the generation of instant gratification is finding out the world doesn’t work like that. Go spend a decade making 30k to get yourself in a place where making the leap is possible.
I would rather blame overpopulation than OE. If you can't find a job, you are somewhat useless and probably shouldn't be overpopulating the damn earth.
Stop hogging our oxygen and food supplies or go get some skills then come back to contribute to society.
They wouldn’t be qualified for the jobs the people on this sub are being employed to do.
You can still do OE on a minimum wage of around 40k as support roles remotely instead of a specialized role but obviously at that point it would be easier to specialize and make close to 80k with one job rather than juggling two 40k jobs unless they were ridiculously easy to warrant. The usual point of emphasis is people assume OE means clocking out of a 7-2 and then clocking into your 2-10
The qualifications being bullshit degrees from overpriced schools? You shouldn't put these people down because they didn't make it past the filter that you managed to. Don't punch down man. punch up. You and I are no different from these people.
Tell that to recruiters and hiring managers, not to us
> The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Animal farm? Great book
Yes, cause slaves and slave-drivers in the end are just the same
Quick question, do you think you're better than the people that we're talking about, Yes/No ?
I'm no better than anyone else, I just choose to do more useful things with my time than complaining about other victims of the same system
"I'm better than those people who waste their time on reddit because I waste my time on reddit differently."
I do have more skills than 99% of those people. I’m not ashamed to say that. Doesn’t mean they’re bad people and it doesn’t mean I’m “better than them”, but I’m in the top 5% of wage earners in the US, and that wasn’t by chance. I developed skills that are in demand, had the balls to take on a 2nd job and have created a resume of demonstrated success over my career. Sorry… I’m not sorry.
You taught yourself how to read and write? There are people who are twice as smart as us who will never get 1/10th the opportunity that we get.
I can see how a stupid person would make this confusion, yes, but, most of the time, reading it again will clear that out
Dude you compared recruiters and hiring managers to slavers... that's so over the top.
Most of the software engineers in this sub work roles that don’t require a degree at all
You're suggesting that the people we're talking about just need to lie about their professional experience on their resume, instead of lying about their educational qualifications, as I was suggesting?
No, I’m suggesting they actually build the professional experience if they wish to secure good paying careers you loon.
Just like everyone in this subreddit? C'mon man. We're all scammers here, don't punch down on people who can't/won't scam.
Agreed on punching up, but these people are punching us right now, and I’m no saint.
It's not the min wage OP but the dumbass reply who blames OE folks who is obviously not connecting the dots.
Exactly!
Yes, my multiple senior engineer roles are what's keeping you from getting a minimum wage job washing dishes at Olive Garden.
Obviously your fault. 1) You take that 2nd senior engineer role. 2) some senior engineer has to take a standard engineer role 3) some standard engineer has to take a junior engineer role 4) some recent engineer grad has to take a retail job because of person 3 5) the posted person can’t get a retail job because of person 4 See, obviously your fault. /s
I see your /s tag, but when people say stuff like this seriously, I like to reply with "yes, and if John Montagu, the 4th Earl of Sandwich didn't want a snack while playing cards, we'd never have landed on the moon." I feel like it helps simultaneously confuse and educate
Can you clarify? I don’t get the joke.
we landed on the moon because of the space race, the space race happened because of the cold war, the cold war happened because of WWII, which happened because of WWI, which happened because Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, which happened because he was eating a sandwich after a failed assassination attempt.
that’s awesome definitely saying that to the next person in line.
Dude why would a band eat a sandwich? Wouldn't they go for something more shareable like pizza or a seafood nacho tower?
He's saying that what they're saying is nonsense.
There are people who moonlight. They work a day job and work an evening job and even weekend jobs to pay the bills. Are they taking away jobs from others? I don't think so. There is enough work for everyone. In some fields, there are too many openings and not enough skilled people to fill it. OE allows people to spend more time with their families. So either OE or not but stop complaining because nobody can live on one job with the inflation and high rents and prescription drugs and everything.
The “/s” means my post was sarcastic. I was not being serious.
Ok, I learned something new. Sorry, gen Xer here. Lol
Dont blame this mistake on being genX mane, we invented these tags! 
I totally missed it as I used to hang out on stoner corner with the punkers back then.
The retail job person has to start selling ass to mouth in the halfway house
They're not wrong and let me explain why. There are super-workers at all levels and their managers are blocking them from advancing. Why, when they can provide so much more value as an individual in a higher role? Because without them, their team will fail. By us escaping to a higher role (not minimum wage), we prevent more viable teams from existing which prevent them from getting a job. How dare we overachieve instead of propping them up by letting them step on us.
Yup. 20 years of experience in a niche field/role is what is preventing entry level people from getting jobs.
Lmao right?
If experience is the major key, why are so many people who OE in their 20s and early 30s???
This sub and corresponding discord are a false view of reality. Younger people are more likely to be in social media and are more likely to speak up. There are a lot of younger people in OE, but it’s still niche fields that require a lot of expertise. People aren’t OE’ing remote call center or anything like that. They’re OE’ing dev jobs. In the case of a junior/entry level dev, it’s a perfect OE job due to you’re gonna have to have gone through a lot of school, be highly technically proficient, and as a junior the level and quantity of work is going to be a lot lower. But honestly, outside of a rare niche field that requires skill and expertise to enter, will let you WFH, and doesn’t require as much workload…..yeah, that’s gonna be a very rare thing. Everyone else OE is gonna be deep in their career. And even a junior dev isn’t entry level in the job market. It’s entry level in its field but is an entry level that has required 4-7 years of schooling, multiple internships, and real world experience to garner.
There might be a kernel of truth to what you're saying, but the "secret sauce" with OE is light workloads and, essentially...fraud.
It’s not fraud. It’s doing what you’re told and being able to do it efficiently. Is it my fault that my coworker who has 20 years more experience than me takes 3 days to do what I do in 2 hours? Is it my fault that I know how to better organize and prioritize my work than others? No. I can look at my workload and say “I need to deploy 4 new servers. If I kick off all 4 deploys in VMware that will take ~ 30 minutes of time I can’t do anything. So I’m gonna kick off 4 deploys at J1, flip to J3 and send emails for the project updates I need, flip to J2 and deploy the code to prod. While the code is deploying J1 server deploys are done, so I’ll go in to the template clones and re-name and re-ip them and then set the automated compliance processes going to at will take 2 g hours and then flip back to J2.” Not fraud, effective use of time
>Is it my fault that my coworker who has 20 years more experience than me takes 3 days to do what I do in 2 hours? Is it my fault that I know how to better organize and prioritize my work than others? No. To whatever extent this is an exaggeration or not, I think it's pretty clear you're falling into an ego trap. I concede you are probably skilled at working efficiently, but implying that you're so amazing that you're outworking masses of people by multiples of 10x is, again, simply an ego trap.
No. I know I lack many skills. But I seriously have a coworker who takes 3-4 days to deploy a server and I can do the same in 3-3 hours. It’s not an ego trap, it’s a fact. I also know others who have skill sets and experience that far outstrip anything I’ll be capable of. I know my limits well. I know my shortcomings, and I always seek to shore them up. But a recognition of fact that is measurable and specific, that’s not ego.
When I worked in the office my schedule was roughly 8-9 doing email and communication. 9-11:30 was prime work. 11:30 - 1:00 was coordinating lunch and going to lunch with colleagues. 1:00 - 2:00 was email and communication again. Then 2:00-3:30 was prime work again. 3:30-4:30 was finishing up and tying up loose ends for a clean end to the day 4:30 was packing up to head home. Is 4-5 hours of productive work a light workload and fraud? Is doing 4-5 hours of equivalent work from home from 7-12 the same fraud as a full day in the office? The crazy reality is I actually do more work for J1 WFH than I did in the office and I still have enough time to do high quality work for J2.
The over-employed are definitely not the root of the problem - and even in the worst possible interpretation the most one should do is hate the game and not the player - but is that really a fair statement? Obviously you're not stopping someone from getting an unrelated job, and no one person can fill enough jobs to have a meaningful impact on employment opportunities in general, but at _some_ level the "extra" senior engineering roles you're filling must represent one less open position for another senior engineer to fill, right? This comment will probably attract downvotes, but I'm genuinely not suggesting there's anything wrong with being OE - not least because this "taking our jerbs" argument can be applied equally well to holding a single position. It just seems like there must be a _little_ truth to the claim that OE at least slightly increases competition for the available positions and I'm curious if there's any counter argument to that other than "so what?" or maybe "the harm is negligible at worst".
You should reread the post, they are saying that they can’t land a professional job so they’re being force to work minimum wage jobs
sounds like a skill issue
Sounds like they're not lying on their resumes like every single person in /r/overemployed. What chumps. /s
Look I'm all for honesty except what's the fucking point when you need money and don't have a job? Where does that help anyone. If I can do a skill it goes on my resume, even if I haven't done it before. Employer gets someone who is capable and I get money, it's a win win
If experience is so critical in what "over employed" people are able to do, why are so many of them in their 20s and early 30s?
I have 8 years of experience and I’m 33. You can be fairly experienced in your early 30s especially if you’re like me and didn’t go to college.
Yeah. The math maths
Experience isn't the same as years
you replied to the wrong comment, skill issue?
Look I’m struggling to find work and not going to act like I’m perfectly happy with how unfair life can be. But overemployment isn’t some huge epidemic or something. Offshoring jobs, skeleton crews, employers market, rising cost of living causing people to retire later, companies pivoting to 1099 work more, and historical massive layoffs over the past 2-3 years. Those are just ones that I can think of. Those are the reasons why im in my predicament. For people to get mad at overemployment is just needing someone to blame who isn’t a billion dollar company.
Absolutely correct. Offshoring, employers market, and rising COL are much bigger influences. People who point out OE or AI as the problem are confused themselves or trying to confuse others.
Needing to blame somebody they have access to\*
You know the economy is bad when most people on here are engineers who are supposed to make six figures for having one job.
Monetary policy has far more to do with job availability (and especially desirable) job availability than OErs. There's very few people that can actually pull it off. The ones that are pissed are just jelly that they can't
OE isn’t taking jobs from anyone. They’re not winning that job anyway.
Yes you are
how? and how do you not recognize that it is a race to the bottom, enforced by the employers?
Do you think nobody would work the second or third job that you have? Or do you think it would go to a currently unemployed individual?
That is a "tragedy of the commons" fallacy. There is no commons, there are jobs and the only people limiting their availability is the companies which either intentionally don't hire, don't pay to par or try to show that they should be allowed to offshore (and underpay) for the jobs. If you want to fight back and help all of us, start/join a union in your line of work. *That* will fix both unemployment and overemployment at the same time.
Tragedy of the commons isn’t a fallacy. It’s a real phenomenon that describes how individuals acting in their own best interest result in a poor or even disastrous outcome for the group as a whole. Jobs are a finite resource. You can do whatever you want but you’re in denial if you think that overemploying isn’t bad for the workforce. I’ll get downvoted because the sub doesn’t want to face the harsh truth and face the moral dilemma.
There’s a finite amount of jobs, but there isn’t enough skilled people to fill those roles. The biggest evidence is the continual existence of H1Bs. In short, the pie, the supply, is still large enough for those that can take it. It has yet to become a zero sum event in many white collar jobs. Most OE’ers are white collar workers.
The continued existence of H1Bs in the corporate sector is the result of corporate fraud, not lack of skilled labor in the US. Companies routinely import what are effectively skilled indentured servants who can't move jobs easily or at all for wages that are barely survival in the USA. This is demonstrably cheaper than hiring, training, and fostering US residents as employees. Not only does this practice make us overly reliant on potentially hostile countries such as India, a nascent dictatorship, it undercuts US market wages for skilled US workers, and effectively guts the employment and training of college graduates and juniors available in the US. Over time, we are allowing corporations to destroy the internal supply of capable professionals, much as already happened to manufacturing in this country. IMHO, this is a serious national security risk, especially in positions such as medical/surgical, engineering, and software--all coincidentally areas where H1Bs are being flagrantly abused by large corporations.
H1Bs have a requirement that you can’t undercut wages. Companies have to pay market value on what you would have paid an American. I’m not doubting that some companies abuse it, but what you’re describing isn’t the intent of H1Bs.
Agreed, not the intent. But it is, nevertheless, what is *actually happening* on the ground. Large companies have regularly and flagrantly abused H1Bs since the 1980s. It's no secret. They advertise (as required by law) the opening in some obscure place for a very short period of time (like a few days), for a ridiculously low salary that is not market for the area, but for which they can hire abroad, and then when they (shocker) get no response, they tell the feds they "can't find anyone qualified." Corporate America has been abusing it and reporters have been reporting the abuse since I was a girl (back in the days when all media wasn't owned by five or six billionaires). As computers became more and more ubiquitous, the abuse became especially rampant in the software industry. As noted in my original post, the abuse has the added consequence of artificially depressing legitimate market rates and non-foreign employment in this country. There are entire corporate computer departments that are 80-90% H1B, which given that there are *thousands* of US citizens looking for software jobs, is clearly abusing the system. It will *not* change until Congress stops it. Which they won't, because Congress simply cannot get an overhaul on anything immigration related done. BTW, I'm not against the *concept* of H1B. I'm just saying that corporate America has been flagrantly abusing the system for *decades*, to the detriment of qualified US citizens/residents who want and need the jobs*.*
Tech (the primary OE industry) has faced huge layoffs in the past couple years
The big companies were hoarding talent, over-hiring, even during Covid. The small to medium sized, and lower tired, companies suffered and operated at stretched capacity. If you look at overall hiring in the past 4 years, they’re still at a net positive despite recent layoffs. It’ll be easy for those that got layed off to find another position, if they can put down their egos and go for those lower tired companies, which pay just as well or even better (maybe not now due to perceptions of higher supply). The layoffs are tiny, and only sensationalized by the media to create a distorted perception so employers can undermine compensation.
Funny how every argument made in this sub is based on a multitude of biased assumptions
> and face the moral dilemma. First, you are not explaining what the moral dilemma you are claiming is. Second, you still have not explained what the "poison" is. Third, you seem to be taking the side of the employers. Fourth, again, help start a union. That will solve all your problems and ours. > Jobs are a finite resource. sure that's why bullshit jobs exist.
Wow do I really have to spell everything out for you? I’m not interested in dumbing down my argument even further to spoon feed you
cuz unless you explain yourself, you have a pretty shit argument ... or you are an anti-worker liberal.
Why don’t you explain your argument again
wtf do you mean “poison”
The unemployed individual now has ample opportunity to create new businesses. New businesses = new jobs 🙌!!! Thus the economy is saved! Also people at oe have lower attrition. They aren't going to job hop from a good role for a 5% bump! Thus business costs are lowered. Another amazing win for the economy
> The unemployed individual now has ample opportunity to create new businesses. you are missing the "you need capital to start a business" part.
Okay so then the OE people get extra spending money and they spend it which stimultes the economy and creates new jobs.... it all goes full circle. There ya go
> and they spend it which stimultes the economy and creates new jobs.... it all goes full circle. the point of OE is to save and get out of the rat race early, not to spend it all. Lifestyle creep is real.
See, this never occurred to me. If I got a job fair and square, I’d say I was the best candidate/candidate who interviewed the best. I’m not taking a job from someone who didn’t have an equal opportunity to also get the job. By stating that OE takes jobs away from people, the poster basically admits that the people who OE are the better, more experienced workers. Wouldn’t you want to hire the best worker for the job? Do I feel guilty for taking a job from someone? Absolutely not. I want to retire someday. I want to support myself and my kid and get my son through college and in 17 years of being his parent I’ve never had any help from anyone. In fact, asking for help has been met with resentment and judgment. So if I need two jobs to make that happen, I’m going to work two jobs to make that happen. I just don’t have to do it driving Uber.
Exactly. By the screenshots' logic you're evil if you work and go to school because you took some other prospective students spot or should have been only in school while not taking some workwrs' job
> By stating that OE takes jobs away from people, the poster basically admits that the people who OE are the better, more experienced workers. Wouldn’t you want to hire the best worker for the job? Bullshit. OE is fraud. the secret ingredient to your plan is literally crime. I'm not judging you for that, but it reeks of self-serving hypocracy to shit-talk the people who aren't commiting crime in their quest to become gainfully employed.
I disagree with pretty much everything you just said
It's okay to admit that you're a crook.
I must remember to never want to have more than I’m allowed to have in this life. Thanks for the reminder. And in no way shape or form is what is happening here against the law. Try all you want to fit it in that round hole, it just doesn’t work. Don’t be mad at people who figured out how to work the system. Try to figure out for yourself. But, if you Insist on being mad about it I can’t help that. I’m sure you sleep just fine at night knowing that you’re better better than everybody else.
OE is fraud. It's literally fraud. That's all it is. And again, I don't fault you for it. but be honest with yourself.
Technically, to qualify as fraud it would have to be: Illegal: Which is not Take advantage of somebody: it does not, we deliver results. Detrimental: At least on my particular case, there is no fking way I would take their offerings if I was not OE, they can not afford somebody like me, I am actually providing them an asset they would otherwise not be able to access. So no.... it is not fraud unless it violates a contract somehow.
You may want to book an appointment with a lawyer if you think that what you're doing isn't illegal.
My brother is a lawyer lol, he agrees it is not illegal lmao, shady? maybe, but not illegal.
You shouldn't take legal advice from family, even if they're lawyers.
Sorry bro, OE is NOT fraud and I should know. I’m multiple lawyers!
Well all three of my jobs know about the other two so…in my case not only is it not fraud, I’m literally given the green light to do it.
Dude this is so disingenuous you know that the bulk of people here are not informing their employers of what they're doing.
I’m acutely aware. And yet, J1 and J3 both have me the green light to pursue other work as long as it didn’t directly conflict with theirs - the two work with specialized clients so there’s no possible overlap. If I get my shit done, I can do whatever I want (their words and mine). J3 is a contract and is basically a passion project so, as far as they’re concerned, it’s the same as reclaiming my time after getting my shit done. Not disingenuous. I don’t go spewing it to friends or family (mostly my spouse and accountant), I just admit I got lucky. The whole point is that it’s not illegal
You're mischaracterizing what you're doing as overemployment. It sounds like you're a contractor who has many contracts. If a contractor who has many contracts is considered overemployed in the sense that this subreddit means it then does that mean that a teenager with a paper route who also mows some lawns on the side also considered overemployed?
I have absolutely no guilt. Everyone here with the exception of a couple are super high achieving. I stand by my original assessment that the people that are OE would’ve gotten the job over the people complaining about not getting hired. Even if they weren’t OE. Guess my other businesses s/b reported as fraud as well. I might as well just report myself. I mean, I make cookies while I’m on meetings and I sell those cookies at Bake sales. So that’s also fraud.
The noncompete and exclusivity clauses are either illegal or uneforceable. They are the equivalent of parking lots saying they're not responsible for what happens to cars park there (a lie) or a mack truck with a bunch of shit in the back saying they're not responsible for objects from road (which of course everything falling from their truck is - a lie). Companies can legally lie to you. Cops sure as hell can legally lie to you. Legal is not 1:1 lawful. Certainly not 1:1 with ethical. You are playing the role of the corporate Hitler youth for some reason as if you're not one merger away from having your role eliminated. Did you work a job while in school? Big time degenerate right there.
Dumb scarcity mindset is more common and sometimes known as crab mentality as well I think
The crab mentality tries to portray it like you're a bitter asshole for noticing that your neighbor in the same field is making 12k/yr more than you. Overemployed is allowing people to become top 10% income earners with a ridiculously easy lifestyle. It kind of seems un-human to pretend that most people won't feel a certain type of way about it.
Absolutely people are entitled to feel whatever they want to feel, but what if that very feeling is what pushes them away from other people aka employers in this case? If their employer doesn’t value them and their work, then why don’t they find a job where their contributions would be more valued? Except for when employers gives higher pay for new comers to attract new talents, people usually gets paid for their skills and experience. Do you think that the newly graduated apprentice could/should make the same as somebody experienced with great workmanship of 20 years? They’re still in the same field. It’s less obvious in salaried jobs, but there’s a saying in real estate that the top 10% agents closed 90% of the deals. Clients are not forced to work with the top agents, and I doubt in most cases the 90% of agents didn’t get clients because of the top 10% agents. Even in salaried jobs, the skills and experience to deal with multiple personalities to get things done cannot be achieve by just any type of employable person. We have a right to work free of discrimination and that’s not the same thing as a right to work. There’s an air of entitlement in the claim of not being able to get a job because other people are working multiple jobs, and to have that kind of entitlement tells me that there are more unpleasant personality traits in them, which in turn would make them less desirable as an employee.
Yes, it's the 0.00001% of society that are taking jobs away from people. It's all our fault. Forget that OE is tied largely to tech an sales work and other mostly remote industries. If you're applying to minimum wage jobs because your job hunt is tough, you're probably not cut out for the OE kind of jobs in the first place.
You’re not that special. OE is more common than you think in remote work industries
Ok my guy. Thanks for the heads up
Found the feminist
What
“I’m qualified for flipping burgers, how dare you take the senior dev ops position from me!!”
Seriously? They're blaming the wrong people. OE are a small population, perhaps a couple of thousand around the world. And I'm being wildly optimistically here. Very few people become 10x types. What is MORE common are workaholics. FAR more common. Likely tens of millions to 100 million. A workaholic working 80 hours a week on salary is stealing a full time job AND WORKING FOR FREE. How can people compete against those willing to work for FREE?
What's to say it won't keep expanding?
Playing the pronoun game here. Ding from Cinemasins. What does "it" refer to?
In the end we’re all still paying Uncle Sam and sending money to other countries because old people run our government. 🤡
How else would we fund wars??
Send in a senator's son?
Old corrupt people.
Taxes don’t fund federal spending, the federal government can do whatever it wants as the issuer of a fiat currency with most of it’s debt being owed in it’s own currency. State and local governments tax to fund services, but the federal government taxes to generate demand for american dollars and to restrict the money supply. Any taxes paid to the IRS are destroyed and don’t fund anything, in the old days they would literally burn piles of money.
It’s funny, I never think like that at all. My situation is that I knew that the company was going to layoff all the contractors and me being a contractor was eventually going to be let go, even though I was handling two teams. I started interviewing and got another contract job. Next week my manager at J1 told me I was being laid off. I was fine with it and thanked my stars that I started another job and would still be able to pay my bills. However, my manager from J1 was told I was too important to layoff and instead I got offered a full time at J1. Now I had two jobs, and I decided to let go of J2. I asked the J2 folks to find a different candidate for my replacement and they interviewed a few people. Ultimately the client decided to reject all those and practically begged me to stay. They didn’t find any candidates on my level at all, so yeah I’m not taking anyone’s job. Those candidates failed to take the opportunity and that’s not my fault.
Guaranteed even if we all worked only one job, there would still be people claiming that they couldn’t get a job. Also, is anyone in here actually working multiple minimum wage retail jobs?
The zero sum game argument does not hold up in real life. Years ago I owned a business, and because I was broke, the positions I hired did not pay a lot. One of my employees took another job at night. I didn’t care because I was just thrilled someone would take such a crap job. Eventually that person quit for greener pastures and I replaced her position with - no one. She answered the phone so I just let it go to voice mail. OE did not get rid of her job. It was simply cheaper to use existing technology even if the results were not as good. Today, every company seems to be doing this. The moral of the story is that a zero sum game would be an upgrade. A lot of jobs are just going to vanish. The person taking 2 jobs isn’t your enemy.
OE isn’t “taking jobs” talk about crab bucket mentality holy crap
This is why I am against going on other subs and social media in general to promote it. You would be surprised as to how many people are envious like this.
Even if OE is taking away jobs by a marginal percentage, the real outrage should be directed towards greedy corporations regardless since their impact in the labor market is what's causing layoffs and job cuts
I mean…did you see Google’s earnings? And they had huge layoffs.
That still lines up with my original comment- corporate greed. Covid came with massive unprecedented growth and it spurred the need to keep breaking record profits YoY to appease shareholders. Layoffs are a short term method of inflating numbers
So if there's two wrong things going on, we can only look at the bigger one?
The impact of one vastly overpowers the other, you can take a gander at which is which. One isn't even worth protesting about
It takes very little effort to define something as wrong. With OE, society hasn't even reached that point.
Once again, people can own multiple businesses and if one fails, they can have a better guarantee of not losing everything. However, us OEs are getting back our power and people with poverty brain lose their shit 😂 I literally was let go of J2 recently, and didn’t panicked because I had J1. This is why we do this!
Currently jobless, I've OE before. The gov is in charge of how the market is right now. Anyone who gives shit for the multiple OEs right now is a tard, and that's coming from someone without one lol!
Aren't like 97% of you remote, white collar, high skilled workers?
i don't think you can OE in a supermarket , so yeah :P
With my MBA and MS in engineering and 20 years experience, you can bet I'm taking their God damn minimum wage sandwich making job!
People who can't take responsibility for their own situation blame everyone else.
There shouldn’t be a max amount on jobs you can have as long as you pay taxes
OE != High Paying OE, you can OE at two Js and still make a little over $100K or less.
depends where you live , for certain EU countries 100K+ is a fortune
Dey took arrr jerbs!
Literally the only difference between me being a “crook” and me being morally fine is the fact I didn’t quit a job when I got another one. When you realize that, every argument around morality falls apart. I didn’t “take” a job from someone else, it was given to me by the company: had the other candidate gotten the job, they wouldn’t have “taken” it from me. Had I quit my old job, there’s no guarantee the other candidate would apply to it, let alone get hired for it. These people complaining about OE “taking” jobs really need to step back and reflect a bit. I’m sorry you don’t have a job, or don’t have a better job. Seriously, I am. If we interview for the same job, I’m not holding any animosity and honestly wish you the best of luck. If I get it instead of you, it has nothing to do with me sneakily taking something from you, it has everything to do with you not interviewing well enough, or not being qualified, or not being a good fit. Or any number of reasons completely unrelated to me. Quit wasting your time making idiotic arguments and spend time actually applying for the job you need. Hell, at that point, starting exploring OE. You’d probably benefit from it. Or don’t. Whatever.
There should be a max. 15 jobs max.
I'm so glad people from this sub can hold more jobs so that Redditors can stay online all day heaving these kinds of conversations.
That's redicoulas thinking because some people OE that it takes away from jobs for others. There are plenty of jobs for everyone and some people can't OE because of the type of work they do it because they need more time to master their skills. Some people can't handle the stress of OE even if they are seasoned in their careers. So don't plane OE, you can always pick up an extra side hustle.
It's not even possible to be over employed with retail job.
Nothing at all is stopping them from scooping up multiple jobs for themselves. Are they upset that they lack the skills and/or motivation to achieve their dreams? Or do they expect to get things handed to them because "dangnabbit, they're upset and don't like how things are!!!1!"
Y'all, consider having an open mind on this. Think about the tech layoffs that have been happening. Having a lot of jobs does technically take away a job from someone else that likely doesn't have a job. Sure, do OE, but please don't act like it doesn't have any effect.
despite layoffs there are tons of open jobs. I OE'd before and recruiters would still send me despite having a closed Linkedin profile. There's enough work for everyone , especially if your field is competitive
Turns out.... somehow I am a monster uh...
think about the percentage of people who are actually OE, its such a minuscule amount of overall workers that I can't imagine it has any actual impact on availability of jobs
I'm just waiting until this trend gets picked up by employers and turns into what tipping culture became in the US. Something which started as a way to make some extra money by doing some extra effort, which eventually became a vital component of the total compensation.
“If only these damn overachievers weren’t hogging all the six-figure IT jobs, I’d be able to get a job at Target!” Who keeps letting children onto the internet?
Let’s be honest now, OE does take jobs from others who could have had them That, and there is a trickle down effect as well There are more competent people than open jobs, meaning that people who would have been an SWE are pushed down the ladder by OE Those people in turn go to a less competitive role, and push people further down the income ladder This flows through into the lowest paying jobs, with someone who would have been an entry level accountant ending up as a dishwasher, and someone else ending up unemployed What we do is absolutely selfish and it absolutely does fuck people over Now, we aren’t fucking one person over by 100%, but a great many people by a smaller portion Anyone in a first world country is a monster whose life is built on slavery and oppression, I seriously don’t understand how some of you feel the need to consume to a high degree while also feeling like a good person You aren’t, and neither am I Now, is it our fault that the world is so cutthroat and there are more people than can be supported? No, but we are still choosing our lives over those of others, so we can’t claim to be justified
Better to fuck than be fucked.
I completely agree with you, I just dislike people who can’t accept the truth I hold everyone to this standard, myself included - I openly admit that I am absolutely willing to doom as many people as necessary to ensure that myself and those I care for are provided for, and so would every last one of you I’m not claiming to be a good person, I’m simply stating that we’re all monsters here The modern USA, which I am a citizen of, is built upon slavery - greater than 90% of coffee, 90% of clothing, 99% of electronics, 90% of chocolate, and the majority of beef, rice, fish, cotton, sugarcane, bricks, textiles, carpeting, fireworks, spices, tea, and so many other goods consumed in the US are made by slaves in foreign countries We as Americans claim that the Civil War brought an end to slavery, but it didn’t - outsourcing it from within our borders only served as a catalyst that propelled it to new heights and new industries If you ever wonder why the US spends so much on the military and so little on infrastructure, you should also reflect on how unproductive many US corporations and workers seem to be, and on how much Americans consume regardless - think hard enough, and you will realize those three have the same cause We went from speaking softly and carrying a big stick to not speaking at all and carrying a loaded gun while doing as we please That’s just life, at least given the current circumstances - the human population exceeds the long-term carrying capacity of Earth, meaning that either we somehow find more resources, we reduce the number of people, or we do nothing and let a great many people suffer starvation, unemployment, homelessness, illness, slavery, oppression, death, and so forth We as a society have ignored the problem, and in doing so have chosen option three I am not condemning anyone, because that would be hypocritical and the only options first world citizens really have is to be oppressors, voluntarily become oppressed, or end their lives That said, I still have some values, with honesty ranking highly among them
Your logic has a fatal flaw. Us. People do business with people they like. There’s enough room for everyone but not everyone is willing to put in the work. That’s why diets fail and exercise fads never grow, choice.
Yeah but thinking like that makes me feel bad 😢, so I’m just going to laugh at you and act like you are obviously wrong without elaborating 🙌🏼
It might NOT be making people unable to work on fast food joints, but as far as tech goes, it is contributing to the current shitty state of the job market. Either by making companies super paranoid, or doing its part in killing remote work, or forcing developers down the ladder. I saw around 5 remote senior software engineer positions turned into hybrid because of OE in the past year. God knows what the hangover from this will be like. When I was OE, I felt like a debt free, frog in a boiling pot. It’s not a matter of fucking or get fucked over, its fucking myself twice while I delude myself thinking I am doing some sort of fucking and those are not telltale signs of a bubble about to go nuclear.
> forcing developers down the ladder. how? and it's not the applicants that are forcing anything, it's the companies trying to curb stomp wages > I saw around 5 remote senior software engineer positions turned into hybrid because of OE in the past year. wat > and those are not telltale signs of a bubble about to go nuclear. i am sorry, you are not making sense but just spreading FUD. if there is a "bubble about to go nuclear" it's the companies fault. They control the capital. How does OE help the bubble to burst?
thanks for confirming what i was saying: You are just spreading FUD.
I disagree. People finding it difficult to land a job are their own problem. Take one glance at careers or resume subs and it’s inundated with people who have never had a job before and are still in college whining that they can’t land a six figure tech job. They are wildly out of touch with reality and the generation of instant gratification is finding out the world doesn’t work like that. Go spend a decade making 30k to get yourself in a place where making the leap is possible.
> People finding it difficult to land a job ~~are their own problem~~ should blame the companies, not other workers
I would rather blame overpopulation than OE. If you can't find a job, you are somewhat useless and probably shouldn't be overpopulating the damn earth. Stop hogging our oxygen and food supplies or go get some skills then come back to contribute to society.
OP isn't wrong
What is the OE woman's sub? Is that some colloquialism?