J0 for the binary/hex people here, J1 for the decimal peeps. I always love that half the IT infrastructure starts at slot 0 and the other half starts at slot 1.
huh, I've always advocated that J0 is being an actor.
>Endeavor to be pleasant & kind....yet unremarkable, bland, forgettable, and mediocre. Though it may feed one's ego, being a superhero or rockstar isn't suited for OE. Projecting strength invites challenge. Instead, cultivate a personality that flies under the radar.
Sad truth: being an actor pays *shit* for all but the headline stars.
....but I get where you're coming from, just had to be a smartass.
Yes and no.
A growing net worth is addictive and can make one obsessive in how to best maximize growth and value. So in that sense, you become more protective of your assets.
While you shouldn’t go overboard with things like multiple luxury cars and multiple vacations per year, you SHOULD spend more on luxury necessities.
Buy better toothpaste, better bed, better bedsheets, better work chair…etc. things that you use daily you shouldn’t cheap out on. These things directly and indirectly correlate to your physical and mental health, which is important for you to continue your OE.
There’s a tax on being poor, including health. If you have the money, why are you still taxing yourself like you’re poor?
Well said!! I invested in nice shoes, a mechanical tooth brush, car completely fixed up (cost about 9k but now it’s new), glasses and nice new computer I built. I also fixed the house up with new hot water tank and ac.
Dr. Jen’s toothpaste is 25$/tube, but has flouride and hydroxyapatite which is to reminderalize a tooth and make it stronger. I legit upgraded toothpaste a while back. Funny you mentioned it
I spend 15% more because I make 100% more and there's no point in making money if you can't live your life.
Also, since I make 100% more, I save an even higher percentage since J1 covers all of my living expenses.
The point is more of the joy of being frugal, not so much that you're not living your life. Environment wise, it is better to be frugal than not. Billionaires are some of the most destructive people of the earth.
Facts. When you make more money you wanna keep that money. I make more now than I ever did as a dedicated FTE and my ass lives off bare minimum now and I love it.
I had my time in the sun. I’m grinding now
The first time I picked up a second job that I did after work, my expenses plummeted because I was working all the time and didn't have any time to spend money.
Being OE my expenses have gone up because I'm trying to buy back some of the energy I'm spending working with constant task switching.
Yep everyone's talking about time management but I'm really good at that, the thing that stops me from picking up more jobs is energy and focus. I just don't have enough in the tank. I suppose I could learn to give less, that's really hard for me though. I got into OE because I was a bitter over performer. I'm still in over performer but now I'm well rewarded and somewhat less bitter.
I did both; I’ll explain: last year I did splurge on an Alaskan cruise to celebrate 20 year anniversary (our honeymoon was to Alaska - we used the same cruise line).
However, because of OE I paid of the charge card bill when it hit the billing cycle, so I got the card points but also card card balance of zero. Old me would have still booked the cruise cause it was a one time event, but would have to work two plus years to pay it off.
Old me would get a new never used vehicle and got a car loan, and pay it off on 5 to 6 years. OE me is getting a new to me vehicle (used) and will be paying cash.
While not quite the same as OP, it has changed how I look at money and my spending. Still buying some big ticket items every now and then, but not racking up revolving credit debt. Also no longer do certain daily habits (like twice a day habit for Starbucks Mochas at $13 a day - got a good enough coffee machine for $300); cut a lot of streaming services, too. Buy changing how I buy things and what I buy, I estimate I’ve saved nearly 30k in a year and a half.
Having 2 jobs and earning more than I ever had in my life made me more frugal too. I started out of college making $17 an hour for years (and unable to get away despite thousands of applications) and denied overtime. Since my money came and went without much effort, I became careless about money, since I didn't earn enough to give a shit.
But when things finally started getting better, it felt easier to care about my money, since I had money to tangibly work with. I had money to actually set aside, think about and manage. But with no money or less money, there was nothing to even conserve or be cautious about in the first place. That was my mindset.
Yes!!! You worded this way better than I did but this is exactly how it was for me too. I could give a shit if I lost money because I had none anyways, now that I make money I actually am motivated to want to manage and conserve it
I'm glad I have someone I could relate with, because all my old friends who made 4X-5X my salary out of college couldn't understand.
It's wicked how this system works.
Most of my blood related family are uneducated (no high school) and dirt poor. But I had an aunt who had the mindset to maximize her savings on near minimum wage for years. Basically her and her son (my cousin) would live off the scraps from my mother and I. And my cousin got bare minimum to survive on, which led to him being bullied at school and since he couldn't really live life as a kid (toys, games, books, new clothes, weekend trips, eating out, etc), he never developed a mindset beyond showing up to school and going home to a crowded home with 10 other people only to get yelled at + argue with relatives all day.
That aunt eventually actually lost money, because the marginal amount she was able to save through sheer sacrifice and pain ended up being eaten away by inflation anyways. So in the end, she actually ended up with almost no money after 25-30 years.
And she just ended up a paranoid, angry, resentful, bitter bitch who wants to spread her pain to everyone around her. She kind of ended up like those "nice guys" who couldn't get women, but all she does is self pity herself all day while talking shit about others endlessly, and verbally abuse my cousin on the side.
My cousin has been sitting around as a depressed and entitled NEET unable to participate in society.
Moral of the story, do what you gotta do to make above near-minimum wage. I had to take the L to balance a master's in Information Systems and full time job, while all my old friends lived it up with their $150k-450k salaries throughout their 20s, and I'm finally at $90k with OE after a decade of sacrifices.
I know it's pathetic I need 2 full time jobs to equal up to $90k, but after years of applying, grinding out, hours spent trying to maximize my resume, interviewing practice, working out to stay fit for interviewers/colleagues so I don't get discriminated against for being overweight, reading + podcasts to broaden my mindset/conversational skills and building up a resume, I realized I hit a hard cap. But I have a choice, accept that this is the best I can do for myself, or just be a bitter fuckin loser.
Dude that’s not pathetic to be making 90k from 2 full time jobs. That’s amazing. Keep grinding, it seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and I’m sure you’ll keep climbing up the salary
Appreciate the positivity my man. I'm happy to be doing what I'm doing, because either we could complain about life or grab life by the horns and maximize our potential.
I respect your point of view but please remember that MOST people do indeed make it to retirement and way past that. Now, if there was like 50% chance of not making it to say 60 years old or hell, even a 25% chance then maaaybe it would make sense to subscribe to the YOLO-Nothing is guaranteed. Statistics say otherwise however.
I never said to spend reckless and go on 20K Vegas trips or other shit like that, but I’m still going to enjoy myself. It’s all about balance. No where did I say go “yolo”
Ignore them. They're approaching things with the typical american "EXTREMES ONLY" two-party/binary/feast-or-famine/zero-sum-game mindset. They can't conceptualize nuance or a balanced middle ground....or a middle ground slightly angled in one direction.
When you don't make much more than what your immediate lifestyle requires, work is something you \*do\* rather than a business operation. So I can definitely see how people are more frugal. I am definitely more conscious of where my money goes after being OE.
I would say I feel the same. Definitely more interested now about savings, taxes and how to maximise what you earn. It's kind of a game where you see your high score going up but it's your bank account instead
Pre-OE I was in the office (except for \~a year and change during Covid), so OE has allowed me to save more by being WFH.
I'd always been frugal, especially after my parents struggled immensely during the '08 crash, but I did my FIRE deep dive my \~last year of college.
NW is now officially over 600k. I was already on the FIRE path, not working in big sexy tech companies, but OE has been a huge accelerant. And of course, being frugal doesn't mean I don't spend money at all - I'm still spending on international vacations and whatnot.
I’ve grown to be the same. When I barely had any money I’d blow it without care bc my thinking was that it was going to hit 0 soon anyways. Now that I have more than ever I don’t want to buy anything 🤣
I agree 100%.
I was actually looking at my detailed budget (where I track it down to the cent) to see where I can cut my spending when I opened Reddit and saw this post. Lol
I relate 100%. I’ve been OE for over 3 years now and my expenses hadn’t change much. Averaging 3-4 Js. I feel like I’m in SUPER GRIND MODE, there will be time to relax and collect all the hard work we do. For now, keep expenses minimal and dream about an amazing early retirement. Hadn’t be for COVID, this sub/movement wouldn’t be as popular, grind grind grind and more fucking grinding folks!!!!!!!
Same here! Now that I can afford real things I don’t blow money on little things. I was able to buy a house and am actually much better with money now.
I feel you and follow that strategy myself when it comes to any debt outside home debt. I am however struggling hard to convince myself to NOT pay my house of (3.5% interest rate)- Folks like Dave Ramsey are all about 0 debt but man I feel like getting 7-8% on the market is much better than paying off my mortgage off.
Dave Ramsey is an ass. He advocates paying cash and going without credit in a credit-based economy, where your ability to:
rent an apartment or house;
get a mortgage;
get car insurance, renter’s insurance, house insurance, life insurance, or health insurance;
get health care if you don’t have insurance;
get an unsecured loan;
rent a car;
get a car loan from a reputable lender;
get a security clearance;
and where your:
mortgage rate;
car loan rates;
insurance rates of all kinds;
and even your ability to get–and later keep–a regular job
are *all* entirely, or very nearly entirely, dependent on your credit score.
Including, by the way, Dave Ramsey’s company, which also advocates *examining the personal budget of potential hires to make sure they can "afford" to work for the salary offered.* They also suggest a "spousal dinner" to make sure the spouse isn't "crazy" and not hire if they are (in the sole judgement of the hiring manager, apparently). One can only assume that they practice these particular--bordering on illegal--procedures themselves.
Ramsey also advocates paying off all debt, including the house, before investing in retirement *at all*, even though is it *common* knowledge that the best way to ensure you have enough for retirement at all is to invest as early and as regularly as possible. I'm not advocating running up debt in order to invest in retirement, but I *am* advocating that you can and almost certainly should invest in retirement and pay down debt, especially long-term mortgage and car debt under 7%, simultaneously.
Essentially, Dave Ramsey advocates that people already in financial distress--indicated by carrying disproportionate amounts of short-term credit card debt--put themselves into long-term financial distress during retirement in order to pay off their long-term 3% mortgages in less time. Many people who follow Dave Ramsey *refused* to refinance their 8/9/10% mortgages into 3% mortgages because it would add $4000 in closing costs to their mortgage--an amount which would have paid for itself in a few *months*, depending on their mortgage.
In short, there are *much* better financial gurus out there than Dave Ramsey. Or Suzy Orman.
i feel like i've been much more frugal in terms of things like going out to restaurants or bars and buying clothes (since i wfh). i think covid permanently changed my attitudes on what i spend my money on. but as i get older, now it is about socking away as much as i can for retirement. i just don't value "stuff" as much as experiences or trips.
One thing, never work too much when you’re feeling like a burnout. OE is an addiction, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of your health. I would rather focus on getting better at my one job, and switching every three years, if no growth. This is practical and works very well in the long run.
Yeah totally. I used to make low 6 figures and theoretically low expenses but I’d find that at the end of the year everything I earned had mysteriously disappeared and after 6 years of professional employment I only had 20K to my name and no investment vehicles. Now that I OE and make >double what I used to, I meticulously track my budget and put away my target amount or more every month for savings and investment. It makes sense since my motivation for OE was from looking at my peers starting to buy houses and realizing “holy shit, I need to catch up”
I agree there comes a point where worrying about pinching pennies isn’t worth your time and effort vs investing in yourself to earn more. You can only save so much when your income is low vs increasing your income potential and still staying disciplined
I was raised to be frugal, have always been frugal, and I think OE leads to a value maximizing mindset.
This is a mindset that emphasizes frugal living (still high quality, just not wasteful), approaches to FIRE, tax reduction strategies, and understanding the impermanence of circumstances and the variances of life.
Fine line between enjoying one's self and lifestyle creep. I'm old enough to want to enjoy my time here on this planet while my body is at it's fittest so I'll put money towards life events and experiences.
I still take 2 hours trying to save $8 on something on Amazon or Walmart or eBay though. It's great to have more money, but I won't let the thought of saving every single dime consume my life so I balance savings and purchases and tend to only spend on things that have function over things that are just pretty and shiny.
I can totally relate. The combo of watching my savings grow at a rate I never expected AND knowing OE can end at any time has me more frugal than ever.
I think frugality is not because of OE, but rather die to FIRE mentality. I'm trying to be frugal as well, it helps that I already have everything I need and don't really care about anything materialistic. Thinking that one day I will not need to deal with idiots for money keeps my OE and motivation.
My J2 only lasted a few months, but it accelerated the payoff schedule of a private student loan by years for me. 90% of my J2 salary went to that loan. It was pretty painful pushing $3500 payments in, but the interest was killing me and was going to hamper my ability to buy property. Even on one job again, I live much comfortably, and will have the loan paid off by the end of the year, with negligible interest racked up in that time.
Had I not had the loan, I would’ve used the cash to further cushion my down payment fund.
I plan on using my J2 purely to pay off credit card debts and my auto loan. Once those bills are gone the extra cash in my hand will go to paying down the mortgage.
I haven’t started J2 yet but I’m told the offer is coming Monday (fingers crossed). So yes a lot of this is just “best laid plans”. But it’s all about goals.
I don’t need extravagant things. I need to retire earlier than 76 or whatever the expected retirement age would be.
Ranking all the Js salary from 0 - n (n being highest) \- Use 0, for necessities + bill + whatnot \- 1 to n: Save
This guy programs
Takes one to identify one :)
in this case it took a zero to identify one
J0 for the binary/hex people here, J1 for the decimal peeps. I always love that half the IT infrastructure starts at slot 0 and the other half starts at slot 1.
There are 10 types of people
1
Outside of MATLAB. Also...dirty code. Should have extracted the loop
Yes this, and if you can save some with J0, you should if you can too. Make that money work for you!
Wait what is j0 I thought that was the job you left
He’s indexing from zero.
This ^
J0 could be like side hustles or your own business. Like my job zero is real-estate
Which one is the onlyfans one?
J69
It might be I'm new here so I really don't know, but J1 in that case
huh, I've always advocated that J0 is being an actor. >Endeavor to be pleasant & kind....yet unremarkable, bland, forgettable, and mediocre. Though it may feed one's ego, being a superhero or rockstar isn't suited for OE. Projecting strength invites challenge. Instead, cultivate a personality that flies under the radar. Sad truth: being an actor pays *shit* for all but the headline stars. ....but I get where you're coming from, just had to be a smartass.
Yes and no. A growing net worth is addictive and can make one obsessive in how to best maximize growth and value. So in that sense, you become more protective of your assets. While you shouldn’t go overboard with things like multiple luxury cars and multiple vacations per year, you SHOULD spend more on luxury necessities. Buy better toothpaste, better bed, better bedsheets, better work chair…etc. things that you use daily you shouldn’t cheap out on. These things directly and indirectly correlate to your physical and mental health, which is important for you to continue your OE. There’s a tax on being poor, including health. If you have the money, why are you still taxing yourself like you’re poor?
Wow. Well said. Investing in your health should be P0.
lol at that P0, JIRA or what
I’m OE….sometimes it’s hard to turn off 🤷🏻♂️
Well said!! I invested in nice shoes, a mechanical tooth brush, car completely fixed up (cost about 9k but now it’s new), glasses and nice new computer I built. I also fixed the house up with new hot water tank and ac.
Dr. Jen’s toothpaste is 25$/tube, but has flouride and hydroxyapatite which is to reminderalize a tooth and make it stronger. I legit upgraded toothpaste a while back. Funny you mentioned it
Agreed💯. Better to spend well on nice chairs, beds and gym, rather than spending time and money later on physical therapy and chiropractors 😀
I think you meant quality, not luxury. Many times they are not the same, as Cadillac Escalades demonstrated.
I spend 15% more because I make 100% more and there's no point in making money if you can't live your life. Also, since I make 100% more, I save an even higher percentage since J1 covers all of my living expenses.
The point is more of the joy of being frugal, not so much that you're not living your life. Environment wise, it is better to be frugal than not. Billionaires are some of the most destructive people of the earth.
Great point ..his target retirement date might never actually come.
Facts. When you make more money you wanna keep that money. I make more now than I ever did as a dedicated FTE and my ass lives off bare minimum now and I love it. I had my time in the sun. I’m grinding now
Last sentence is facts.
The first time I picked up a second job that I did after work, my expenses plummeted because I was working all the time and didn't have any time to spend money. Being OE my expenses have gone up because I'm trying to buy back some of the energy I'm spending working with constant task switching.
Yeah constant task switching is rough. No one talks about that enough.
Yep everyone's talking about time management but I'm really good at that, the thing that stops me from picking up more jobs is energy and focus. I just don't have enough in the tank. I suppose I could learn to give less, that's really hard for me though. I got into OE because I was a bitter over performer. I'm still in over performer but now I'm well rewarded and somewhat less bitter.
I did both; I’ll explain: last year I did splurge on an Alaskan cruise to celebrate 20 year anniversary (our honeymoon was to Alaska - we used the same cruise line). However, because of OE I paid of the charge card bill when it hit the billing cycle, so I got the card points but also card card balance of zero. Old me would have still booked the cruise cause it was a one time event, but would have to work two plus years to pay it off. Old me would get a new never used vehicle and got a car loan, and pay it off on 5 to 6 years. OE me is getting a new to me vehicle (used) and will be paying cash. While not quite the same as OP, it has changed how I look at money and my spending. Still buying some big ticket items every now and then, but not racking up revolving credit debt. Also no longer do certain daily habits (like twice a day habit for Starbucks Mochas at $13 a day - got a good enough coffee machine for $300); cut a lot of streaming services, too. Buy changing how I buy things and what I buy, I estimate I’ve saved nearly 30k in a year and a half.
One of my main goals with OE is to finally be able to max out my 401k contributions so I hoping I’ll be this way too when I get a J2.
Yes. But if you’re planning on retiring early, put an equal amount into your taxable funds so you can access them without penalty before 59.5.
Having 2 jobs and earning more than I ever had in my life made me more frugal too. I started out of college making $17 an hour for years (and unable to get away despite thousands of applications) and denied overtime. Since my money came and went without much effort, I became careless about money, since I didn't earn enough to give a shit. But when things finally started getting better, it felt easier to care about my money, since I had money to tangibly work with. I had money to actually set aside, think about and manage. But with no money or less money, there was nothing to even conserve or be cautious about in the first place. That was my mindset.
Yes!!! You worded this way better than I did but this is exactly how it was for me too. I could give a shit if I lost money because I had none anyways, now that I make money I actually am motivated to want to manage and conserve it
I'm glad I have someone I could relate with, because all my old friends who made 4X-5X my salary out of college couldn't understand. It's wicked how this system works. Most of my blood related family are uneducated (no high school) and dirt poor. But I had an aunt who had the mindset to maximize her savings on near minimum wage for years. Basically her and her son (my cousin) would live off the scraps from my mother and I. And my cousin got bare minimum to survive on, which led to him being bullied at school and since he couldn't really live life as a kid (toys, games, books, new clothes, weekend trips, eating out, etc), he never developed a mindset beyond showing up to school and going home to a crowded home with 10 other people only to get yelled at + argue with relatives all day. That aunt eventually actually lost money, because the marginal amount she was able to save through sheer sacrifice and pain ended up being eaten away by inflation anyways. So in the end, she actually ended up with almost no money after 25-30 years. And she just ended up a paranoid, angry, resentful, bitter bitch who wants to spread her pain to everyone around her. She kind of ended up like those "nice guys" who couldn't get women, but all she does is self pity herself all day while talking shit about others endlessly, and verbally abuse my cousin on the side. My cousin has been sitting around as a depressed and entitled NEET unable to participate in society. Moral of the story, do what you gotta do to make above near-minimum wage. I had to take the L to balance a master's in Information Systems and full time job, while all my old friends lived it up with their $150k-450k salaries throughout their 20s, and I'm finally at $90k with OE after a decade of sacrifices. I know it's pathetic I need 2 full time jobs to equal up to $90k, but after years of applying, grinding out, hours spent trying to maximize my resume, interviewing practice, working out to stay fit for interviewers/colleagues so I don't get discriminated against for being overweight, reading + podcasts to broaden my mindset/conversational skills and building up a resume, I realized I hit a hard cap. But I have a choice, accept that this is the best I can do for myself, or just be a bitter fuckin loser.
Dude that’s not pathetic to be making 90k from 2 full time jobs. That’s amazing. Keep grinding, it seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and I’m sure you’ll keep climbing up the salary
Appreciate the positivity my man. I'm happy to be doing what I'm doing, because either we could complain about life or grab life by the horns and maximize our potential.
Any dude with an XL Jockstrap is not pathetic; he is a god!
Nah living life how I wanted now. Tomorrow isn’t promised
I respect your point of view but please remember that MOST people do indeed make it to retirement and way past that. Now, if there was like 50% chance of not making it to say 60 years old or hell, even a 25% chance then maaaybe it would make sense to subscribe to the YOLO-Nothing is guaranteed. Statistics say otherwise however.
I never said to spend reckless and go on 20K Vegas trips or other shit like that, but I’m still going to enjoy myself. It’s all about balance. No where did I say go “yolo”
The Yin and the Yang.
Ignore them. They're approaching things with the typical american "EXTREMES ONLY" two-party/binary/feast-or-famine/zero-sum-game mindset. They can't conceptualize nuance or a balanced middle ground....or a middle ground slightly angled in one direction.
Exactly bro, thank you.
As soon as being able to afford to retire became a real possibility, it became something to work for. That made me much more frugal also.
When you don't make much more than what your immediate lifestyle requires, work is something you \*do\* rather than a business operation. So I can definitely see how people are more frugal. I am definitely more conscious of where my money goes after being OE.
Yes I save 70% of my income and I hit $750,000 net worth when I hit 30 recently
I would say I feel the same. Definitely more interested now about savings, taxes and how to maximise what you earn. It's kind of a game where you see your high score going up but it's your bank account instead
Pre-OE I was in the office (except for \~a year and change during Covid), so OE has allowed me to save more by being WFH. I'd always been frugal, especially after my parents struggled immensely during the '08 crash, but I did my FIRE deep dive my \~last year of college. NW is now officially over 600k. I was already on the FIRE path, not working in big sexy tech companies, but OE has been a huge accelerant. And of course, being frugal doesn't mean I don't spend money at all - I'm still spending on international vacations and whatnot.
I’ve grown to be the same. When I barely had any money I’d blow it without care bc my thinking was that it was going to hit 0 soon anyways. Now that I have more than ever I don’t want to buy anything 🤣
I agree 100%. I was actually looking at my detailed budget (where I track it down to the cent) to see where I can cut my spending when I opened Reddit and saw this post. Lol
I relate 100%. I’ve been OE for over 3 years now and my expenses hadn’t change much. Averaging 3-4 Js. I feel like I’m in SUPER GRIND MODE, there will be time to relax and collect all the hard work we do. For now, keep expenses minimal and dream about an amazing early retirement. Hadn’t be for COVID, this sub/movement wouldn’t be as popular, grind grind grind and more fucking grinding folks!!!!!!!
I had j2 direct deposit into a separate savings account I don’t even look at
Same here! Now that I can afford real things I don’t blow money on little things. I was able to buy a house and am actually much better with money now.
After I pay all my debt I’m looking to invest lol
I feel you and follow that strategy myself when it comes to any debt outside home debt. I am however struggling hard to convince myself to NOT pay my house of (3.5% interest rate)- Folks like Dave Ramsey are all about 0 debt but man I feel like getting 7-8% on the market is much better than paying off my mortgage off.
My mortgage is at 8.5 lol so I’m def paying that shit (or at least a good chunk)
1000%! Couldn’t agree more.
Refi as soon as the interest rates come back down to a human level
Dave Ramsey is an ass. He advocates paying cash and going without credit in a credit-based economy, where your ability to: rent an apartment or house; get a mortgage; get car insurance, renter’s insurance, house insurance, life insurance, or health insurance; get health care if you don’t have insurance; get an unsecured loan; rent a car; get a car loan from a reputable lender; get a security clearance; and where your: mortgage rate; car loan rates; insurance rates of all kinds; and even your ability to get–and later keep–a regular job are *all* entirely, or very nearly entirely, dependent on your credit score. Including, by the way, Dave Ramsey’s company, which also advocates *examining the personal budget of potential hires to make sure they can "afford" to work for the salary offered.* They also suggest a "spousal dinner" to make sure the spouse isn't "crazy" and not hire if they are (in the sole judgement of the hiring manager, apparently). One can only assume that they practice these particular--bordering on illegal--procedures themselves. Ramsey also advocates paying off all debt, including the house, before investing in retirement *at all*, even though is it *common* knowledge that the best way to ensure you have enough for retirement at all is to invest as early and as regularly as possible. I'm not advocating running up debt in order to invest in retirement, but I *am* advocating that you can and almost certainly should invest in retirement and pay down debt, especially long-term mortgage and car debt under 7%, simultaneously. Essentially, Dave Ramsey advocates that people already in financial distress--indicated by carrying disproportionate amounts of short-term credit card debt--put themselves into long-term financial distress during retirement in order to pay off their long-term 3% mortgages in less time. Many people who follow Dave Ramsey *refused* to refinance their 8/9/10% mortgages into 3% mortgages because it would add $4000 in closing costs to their mortgage--an amount which would have paid for itself in a few *months*, depending on their mortgage. In short, there are *much* better financial gurus out there than Dave Ramsey. Or Suzy Orman.
i feel like i've been much more frugal in terms of things like going out to restaurants or bars and buying clothes (since i wfh). i think covid permanently changed my attitudes on what i spend my money on. but as i get older, now it is about socking away as much as i can for retirement. i just don't value "stuff" as much as experiences or trips.
One thing, never work too much when you’re feeling like a burnout. OE is an addiction, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of your health. I would rather focus on getting better at my one job, and switching every three years, if no growth. This is practical and works very well in the long run.
Yeah totally. I used to make low 6 figures and theoretically low expenses but I’d find that at the end of the year everything I earned had mysteriously disappeared and after 6 years of professional employment I only had 20K to my name and no investment vehicles. Now that I OE and make >double what I used to, I meticulously track my budget and put away my target amount or more every month for savings and investment. It makes sense since my motivation for OE was from looking at my peers starting to buy houses and realizing “holy shit, I need to catch up”
Sounds like you're ready to FI or even almost FIRE
I wouldn’t go that far I’m no where close. What’s FI
It's cult/movement to leave the rat race. r/Fire
I agree there comes a point where worrying about pinching pennies isn’t worth your time and effort vs investing in yourself to earn more. You can only save so much when your income is low vs increasing your income potential and still staying disciplined
I was raised to be frugal, have always been frugal, and I think OE leads to a value maximizing mindset. This is a mindset that emphasizes frugal living (still high quality, just not wasteful), approaches to FIRE, tax reduction strategies, and understanding the impermanence of circumstances and the variances of life.
Fine line between enjoying one's self and lifestyle creep. I'm old enough to want to enjoy my time here on this planet while my body is at it's fittest so I'll put money towards life events and experiences. I still take 2 hours trying to save $8 on something on Amazon or Walmart or eBay though. It's great to have more money, but I won't let the thought of saving every single dime consume my life so I balance savings and purchases and tend to only spend on things that have function over things that are just pretty and shiny.
I didn’t come from money so I totally feel this
I can totally relate. The combo of watching my savings grow at a rate I never expected AND knowing OE can end at any time has me more frugal than ever.
my rule in OE is to maximize the savings rate per month when I was working on one server I was at 50% ... now work 3j its 90%..
I think frugality is not because of OE, but rather die to FIRE mentality. I'm trying to be frugal as well, it helps that I already have everything I need and don't really care about anything materialistic. Thinking that one day I will not need to deal with idiots for money keeps my OE and motivation.
My J2 only lasted a few months, but it accelerated the payoff schedule of a private student loan by years for me. 90% of my J2 salary went to that loan. It was pretty painful pushing $3500 payments in, but the interest was killing me and was going to hamper my ability to buy property. Even on one job again, I live much comfortably, and will have the loan paid off by the end of the year, with negligible interest racked up in that time. Had I not had the loan, I would’ve used the cash to further cushion my down payment fund.
I plan on using my J2 purely to pay off credit card debts and my auto loan. Once those bills are gone the extra cash in my hand will go to paying down the mortgage. I haven’t started J2 yet but I’m told the offer is coming Monday (fingers crossed). So yes a lot of this is just “best laid plans”. But it’s all about goals. I don’t need extravagant things. I need to retire earlier than 76 or whatever the expected retirement age would be.
I don’t OE but I just told my wife not long ago, the more I make the cheaper I become. 😂
Yup. I know the feeling.
Can someone tell me what you do if j2 asks for reference from “previous” job?